Matsuura Maxia: W16 Engine Block Machined From Solid Billet

[oogle78]

unique looking engine!

[mowrman100]

I THOUGHT it didn't have any water jackets or oil passages! Guy said it was a prototype. Cylinder size? (spark ignition engines) "Bigger cylinders better fuel efficiency"(less surface area per unit volume to cool) Multiple little cylinders more horses at some high rpm (less inertia, more area for valves/ports) - at least that's the way I heard it...

[2jzgtejza80]

@mowrman100

''Bigger cylinders better fuel efficiency'' - well that's wrong. What is more efficient, 3.0 liter 6cyl twin turbocharged or 6.0 liters V8 naturally aspirated with same producing power??

[AdMiRaLeDpIeTt]

steel or aluminum?  Which one is greater?

[MothafuckinYup]

How long was the total time for this project?

[douro20]

This is only good for prototyping a block. You could not make a functional water-cooled W16 engine like this. It does not address the water jackets or the location of the oil passages. The only way to build the block properly is by casting. Each block is cast at Salzgitter using the Cosworth electrocasting process.

[sixtiesforever1966]

Talk About Technology! Wonder what kind of servicing that machine needs?

Used to Work with a Subsidery of GM. / HYATT ROLLER BEARING and had tons of Old School Grinding Machines. Wonder what they are like today? 

[ponyboy1129]

Yeah, after a while, the music is just irritating.

[KapteinOpel]

11 people must be kinda retarded.. I mean.. How can anyone possibly not like this?

[kgeorgejunior]

is this video in real time or in fast forward??

[laurieh]

I don't get how its a W engine looks like a staggered V16???

[nhm89]

do you guys know any book where i can find detailed fabrication of engine blocks?

[naturalyshocked]

just learn to use TurboCad or something.

engine building is common knowledge.

software can calculate forces, bt the software is very expensive, but you could calculate everything your self.

but a friend uses somekind of software from autodesk to help with the stress on the materials.

[alphamongrel]

When Bugatti first made aluminum engines, they looked more like the block itself. It is simply fantastic what modern tech is capable of producing.

[TheOfficialKC]

What are the benefits of a CNC machined from billet engine block versus a cast engine block?

[naturalyshocked]

billet blocks seem to be stronger, that why top fuel dragster use them.

Nelson also makes hem from billt blocks of aluminium and many others

[dominatorl2]

@rmfrox andyl2@live.co.uk

[itachi12789]

Where can i get a solid billet block??

[cncdude1]

Mommy, Can I have one?? (Pawing at the computer screen) All that work in one setup! 5 axis rocks!

[JordanianPride80]

my company should buy like this machine..does it cost more than 500 k ?

[2jzgtejza80]

They first machining W12, and after W16.

[TomLocura]

thats the most awesome thing ive ever watched

[idontcare80]

I would be interested in seeing how the water jackets are machined also. Is this an open deck block?

[alexisgreene]

Is there anyway you could send me the entire video as well? I am very interested in seeing how the water jackets were machined.

[NotYour94Ranger]

People, if you would watch the video to completion, all 16 bores are completed...

[somerandomaussie]

hmm those cylinder walls between the top and bottom bottom bores are really thin they dont cause problems?

[Jayneflakes]

That is incredible, how long does it actually take to create something like that? Do you have to program in every cut or does the machine work it out for itself from a known block size?

[2jzgtejza80]

@Jayneflakes

rmfrox claimed 119 hours for V8

[KLOIBI94]

ned schlecht

[ksascor]

it's a W12 not W16

[miamiforlyfe]

@ksascor no its not watch the end of the video retard!! i almost thought that too!!

[rmfrox]

@ksascor No, it is a W16

[longristra]

@rmfrox count...6 on each side...6+6 is 12 last i checked

[getfoul]

@longristra Last I looked, there were 8 cylinders on each side in this video.

[MJUnitedWay1]

@rmfrox at one point I there were only 12 cylinders drilled, it was confusing. Engine porn, nonetheless....

[MJUnitedWay1]

@rmfrox At one point in the video only 12 cylinders were drilled. It caught me off guard as well. Engine porn....

[citydriver]

i wounder what something like that would cost to have done in full size

[JustDux]

@rmfrox

I think, there are both W12 and W16 on this video

Tnere is W12 till 7:34 and w16 after.

[sablatnic]

@rmfrox

I thought that the W16 had 16 cylindres, not just 12 like the W12.

[fcguy7]

@sablatnic watch till the end ... you will get your answer

[tohtorigyro]

@sablatnic 7:48 -8 cylinders on both sides = w16

[Freaqer]

@ksascor at 7min 31 you see it change to the 16 earlier in the film 5 min 16 it does only look like a 12 but the last 2 cylinder bores haven't yet been cut out as you can see the outside of where the bores would be. maybe its just in the editing..

[terraflata]

@ksascor No it really is a W16, you probably didnt watch past the part where the last two cylinder were bored out. Insane CNC machine. Its amazing what we can do.

[MrZund]

@ksascor look after 7:25

[kendo411]

@ksascor 8+8=16 retard

[rotor13]

@ksascor learn to count.... i see 8 cylinders on each bank

[NZDMTune]

How many machine hours in total? Simply amazing!

[rmfrox]

@NZDMTune 71 hours all done & shiny

[DIamagus]

Please text me this new phone ringtone immediatly!!!

[MaxCruise73]

When the machining started there was no coolant being used. Later coolant was introduced. M8 code if memory serves. Later coolant off. Was the coolant used due to different grade of carbide or for chip removal or to dissipate heat from the aluminum? Also, what grade of aluminum is used for the block? 7000 series?

Many thanks, Max,

[rmfrox]

@MaxCruise73 Greetings - UR right on all counts

[FMF666]

great video terrible music!

[rmfrox]

@FMF666 Agreed. Send me your address & I will send you a version of the video without the background music.

[segovian]

@rmfrox Don't! I quite like the music. It puts me into a trance.

[SexyFingerNail]

Awesome !

[itachi12789]

how much would one of these machines cost

[M0T0RCRAFT]

Water galleries? like to see how those are made

[dominatorl2]

can you send me a video with no music

[rmfrox]

@dominatorl2 Greetings, yes, please send me your address.

Best regards

RMF

[DSMattitude]

ok two questions. Where are the other 4 cylinders? I only counted 12. And what is this W12 engine being built for?

[caulk04]

@DSMattitude You didn't watch the whole video, did you? They're there, just wasn't enough room to rough the last 4 out in the first setup apparently. VW used a W12 in their Phaeton car I beleive. This W16 block is for the 1000hp Bugatti Veryon, however.

[SPUPRR]

@DSMattitude They don't get cut till the work peice is turned.Either not enough clearance between the pallet and spindle or it is required to clamp the part.If you watch towards the 2nd half after they removed the block and rotated it,the end is finished and the last 4 holes are bored.

[somerandomaussie]

@DSMattitude 2 banks of 8 cylinders in a asymmetric design...

[superfunnyman123]

damn jap music...

[Steroads]

nicest work ever, very impressive machinery.

[Reman1975]

I guess YouTube doesn't have a rule against posting automotive porn then !

:)

[jcowboy123]

I would love to see the program.Very impressive

[paulwmerritt]

How does the tooling hold up with no coolant?

[spoogie357]

@paulwmerritt

This is what I would like to know... the cnc my friend has has to have a bit of water sprayed onto the bit to keep things running smoothly...

[caulk04]

@spoogie357 With the right tooling and programming, coolant is not neccesary. Sometimes you need it more for chip evacuation than anything.

[DigiEncryption]

Would love to only hear the machine itself and not any of this... music?

[rmfrox]

Greetings,

Send me your address & I will send you a DVD - no music.

Cheers

[youngmo77]

@rmfrox I wouldn't mind to have the whole operation on a dvd.

[tohtorigyro]

for free? i would like one too :D. does it have the whole operation in it?

[etofun]

@rmfrox does the dvd cost anything?

[rmfrox]

@etofun No - just email me your address via the Matsuura UK website cheers

[tgamirov]

I'm the other way around, cool machine though.

[2pimpinout]

agh thar W12 engine not 16

[nsewyz125]

start at 7:40 you can clearly see 8 cylinders per side. The other 2 cylinders were too close to the fixture to cut it in the first op throughout the first 7 mins or so.

[yellowmusicfreak]

I hope they recycle all those shavings....and wouldn't a big 4 or 6 cylinder engine with the same displacement be lighter, cheaper, and less complex than a w16?

[skafno]

This W16 block was designed to be smaller (thus lighter) than V12 of the same displacement.

Usually, european blocks don't have more than 500cc per cylinder. An 8,0 liters 4-cylinders engine would have 2 liters per cylinder, making it unable to rev at 6000rpm.

Thus, W16 is probably the best way to have a compact 8L engine able to rev at more than 6000rpm.

[naturalyshocked]

porsche 944 and 944 turbo?

[captainbackflash]

@naturalyshocked Porsche uses Boxer type motors in their cars. This is a w12 of a bugatti veyron.

[naturalyshocked]

hehehe, my answer was about some guy that said, that in europe no engines existed with over 500cc per cyl.

the 944 was 3.0 4 cylinder.

and you're telling me something that aint true, bugatti doesn't munt w12 in their veyron, but w16, becausefull with what you leave behind.

[usernameshizer]

@captainbackflash w16.

[terraflata]

@captainbackflash Porsche does use Boxer motors, as well as V8's. Bugatti doesn't use W12's though, they use a W16 engine. Hence 16.4 (16 cylinders, 4 turbos) which means they only make about 62 hp per cylinder.

[cinndave]

@yellowmusicfreak No worries. Most factories sell their scrap metal at a profit unless they can find a better use for it on site.

[jeetendrag10]

inertia..momentum of piston heads exerting too much force on piston coupling to crankshaft ..etc..dozens of reasons to make many small pistons instead of few large pistons...

[VitaminJyo]

ain't nothin wrong with living in 2009

[weetnietgeen]

kinda small cylinders for sucha big engine... ?

[DONKEHOTE]

where is this place?

[a222m]

How can i find he G.code for the W12 motorblock.

[Gigglesisback]

m03

something

m99

[bobwatters]

that was pretty sweet

[MrCuntPunch]

watching the shrapnel fly at the begining was pretty sweet.

[racepicman]

hey not fair man you got HAAS VF-9 im still running our VF-4

[cdlmn63]

one the first one is a w12 the second is a w 16 look at the changes in the tooling for the sceond one

[Valtomotive]

i will try this in our HAAS VF9!!! Lol

[chrizweber]

why should this be 2 different engines or engine blocks ? in the first clamp the machine makes 3/4 of the block , then the block is clamped in the second clamp on the machined surface , i think its the part where later the gear is mounted. sry for bad english.

[porschefanforever]

how much is this machine, pls reply

[Jinmarui]

A bunch of a lot of money.

[chrisyboy28]

825.000 thats sterling not euro thats with the cad package

[techking231]

carbide bit?????

[rmfrox]

Greetings everyone,

Thanks for the comments & the interest in what we do at Matsuura.

If I could request that you please keep the debate civil.

FYI; There is one engine block machined here & it is a W16.

This demo was created to show off our latest multi pallet automated 5 axis CNC machine tool.

Thanks everyone

[matthewstelladmc]

thats a w12 not a w16. it clearly shows 6 cylinders per bank. and you could never make a proper engine block by machining it. cause how would you make the tunnels for cooling and oil flow, great vid tho. shows just how great these machines can be

[xfactorwrx]

learn how to count, it clearly shows 8 per bank. 7:40, its a W16

[jimbooboo]

I think theres 2 different engines.

[Sephirius]

It's not two different engines, what was done is the block had to be flipped to the other side being on the holding block so that the other remaining 4 cylinders could be machined.

[IIIIY0UTUBEIIIIIIIII]

W12

NO W16 BUGATTI

[RateCamDance]

omg, pay attention... they don't machine the last 4 cylinders until 7:35. probably to keep the block stronger while machining the front of the part.

[agt155]

I think it's probably because the milling machine doesn't have the clearance from where the block is clamped to cut the last two cylinders.

IMO from 7:32 onwards the block has been remounted the other way around so the machine can detail the previously clamped end and cut the last two cylinders.

[BlakeMason2]

Those blocks are just demos--right? Could you actually use one for real? The articulation is amazing.

[dutton989]

the veyrons have a w16 engine. google that shit

[311lude]

i belive thats the way all the blocks are made for the veyron. part of why they are so expensive and bugatti says they dont make any profit from the veyron they build them just to show they can. luxury and performance thats out of reach in a car that ways 2 tons quit an acheivement one of my favoret cars

[jimbooboo]

I heard they cost like £5mil to make each and they sell for about £800,000

[kingtipz]

nah veyrons actually use w16's

[0tispunkm3y3r]

this would look amazing in HD.....

[PanzaX]

Cool video. The music sucks big time.

[rmfrox]

I concur.

Please accept our apologies for ruining your viewing experience.

Still, what a machine.

Cheers

RMF

[tgamirov]

Nevermind what PanzyX said about music, he lacks a groovy, European side in him. It rocks.

[maaadkat]

You know what would make a good demo? If you made me a fresh 3S-GTE block and sent it over for me to put in my GT4. Then people could see the machine's product in a real working environment! ;) (Hey, worth a try!)

[rmfrox]

Worth a try!

Cheers RMF

[dbmeadows]

Looks like a Veyron block... Amazing machine, I wonder how much software assist they give you for programming and tool selection for that kinda project.

[rmfrox]

Matsuura Group companies all over the world offer full in depth training on all of our products.

If you have a component that you are having difficulty programming, we can certainly help you out with that too.

Cheers

RMF

[311lude]

as far as i know the veyron is the only car with a w 16

[Paiste402]

Why are the cylinder bores oval? And why are the bores so close to eachother? Are they sleeving this motor? It doesnt look right...

[rmfrox]

Greetings Paiste402,

The cylinders are not actually oval, but they are close together. This W16 was created by Matsuura to show off our latest 5 axis multi pallet CNC machine tool - you would have great difficulty getting a crank to fit it!

As for it not looking right, I think it looks beautiful & i hope to make a coffee table from it one day!

Cheers

RMF

[Paiste402]

oh no dont get me wrong its a beautiful block! It just looks like the bores were oval but seeing that its not going to be used as an actual engine its all cool! Just what is Billet by the way?

[csfreak89]

Wow W16 = Bugatti Veyron lol. This can be fitted in a Veyron?

[Measton42]

I wonder what the bit turnaround per piece is.

[pixuma]

for a veyron?

[killthemall1986]

how much would an average v6 engine cost to machine from billet?

[SJ77F100]

I'm not sure but $10,000 to $20,000 at least

[TZAsh]

Gosh, why don't Okuma have videos this style? :(

[ZakBritCNC]

OMG!!!!

How amazing is this video!

After years of working in engineering machine shops I have never been stopped in my tracks like this - I thought I had seen it all.

Absolutely amazing - great video, great machine tool.

thanks

[tannerremillard]

I think the name of the song is

ump ump ump ump ump ump

[2URBO2]

What is the name of the song?

[fgherger]

This is not actually a functional engine block, as there is no galleries for the water between the cylinders.

Even the veyron engine is made of cast aluminum, which is then machined at joint parts and in the cylinders for smooth and precise surfaces. Features like the water galeries cannot be made by machining as they are inside the block.

[Jakeyboyshow]

Check out the vid of V8 being machined on here on same machine.....coolant galleries achieved nicely. Impressive.

[keepguessing1]

now THAT is porn!

excuse me a moment...

[racedemon89]

are those cylinders angles like the veyrons at 30 degrees? lol, i cant tell, might need 2 cranks otherwise (over/under style)

[yannnnnnick]

veyron are 15degrees like the vr6 w16 is 2 x VR8 engine

[WTR1050]

cylinder walls are pretty thin. dunno if id trust it.

[twistershift]

pretty sure most aluminum blocks are sleeved...

[WTR1050]

o yeah. that makes sense.

small cylinders then.

[akroncrxsi]

all aluminum blocks are sleeved....aluminum cylinders cant take the heat

[hud42cdo]

aluminium cylinders are coated with NICASIL-.sleeves of a different material expand at a differing rate to aluminium-almost all ali cylinders in the last ten years are NOT lined-started on moto-x gp racers

[devo4g63]

Not all aluminum blocks are sleeved, the porsche 928 uses a high silicone content block, so that it does not requirer sleeves, the main problem is that the alloy wants to gaul. When you think about it, alloy pistons are able to take the heat!!!

[tonyppe]

alloy pistions meaning mixture of metals, not alloy as in alluminium.

[devo4g63]

How many production pistons do you know that are made of anything other than aluminum alloy??? Also, i did say 'The alloy' meaning both block and pistons are aluminum alloy. By the way, it is PISTON not pistion.

[Japaneren]

Silicone != silicon.

Silicone is a type of plastic which contains silicon.

Silicon is a chemical element and is what's in the Porsche engine.

[devo4g63]

Typo, silicon is what i meant, not silicone as in sealant.

[localdu]

and is also in breast implants lol ;p

[redfoxbody]

beautiful machine! truly amazing!

[criticalmass181]

I don't know which I'm more in lust with....the finished product, or the machine.

[rmfrox]

Greetings everyone,

The Mill Turn equivalent of the MAM72-42V 5 axis machine, the CUBLEX-42, will be the star of the show at Matsuura UK's Open House on the 12th, 13th & 14th of May 2009.

I will be posting new video of the CUBLEX-42 in the very near future.

Thanks

RMF

[rmfrox]

MS100S2,

You are Victor Meldrew & I claim my £5.

No, seriously - this W16 was a technical exercise to show off the capabilities of the MAM72-42V 5 axis machine tool.

Please try to appreciate it for what it is - a stunning engineering achievement.

Thanks for the post

best regards

RMF

[M100S2]

A completely pointless exercise . A significant part of the machining and use of the 5th axis achieved absolutely nothing. Also the 'engine' will massively overheat in use due to a lack of coolant passages. If it is going to be machined from solid then it should have been an open deck design.

[30GB]

hey machine me a stainless steel conley engine lol

[chrislewispam]

Do you compensate for tool wear or do you just replace them at known intervals? Or is the wear unnecessary to even bother?

[kawasakikillerr]

it most likely has an auto compensation function. many new machines actually have a laser type sensor that checks the tool periodicly, and auto compensates.

[StvnBrkbck]

PRICE?

[enila64]

how did u fix ur piece with the palet?

[tonyravens]

as ucide pt o masina de asta....

[dilaela]

vezi ca sare span

[pieboyx1]

What a piece of history, great piece of kit. Will we see it again in another car, possible not. WOW,,,

[AdrianoFactory]

how mutch time need the machine, to milling the engine?

[Datsrboi]

At a company I used to work for took about 8 hours just to crave something about that size and same shape. Its a long process if your making it almost 0 tolerance.

[juandneen1]

Don't break the V16 block you got 'cause it'll cost shit tins to replace. Wow what an extremely precise machine. Must be controlled by a kick arse computer. Imagine if the comuter had a glitch. Jam, snap, crunch bang, oops start again. Another billet please. Your fired.

[iprokka]

idk mayb but they cost over a million us, excluding taxes

[MISTOdodo]

man... right now im going to school for CNC \ tool & die...and i so hope im gonna get to do stuff like this sometime in my career

[fastcutman]

Yet again my response to Matsuura is:

O.M.G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have just got to get one of those.

Great video, great machine!

[loky271]

that song is so crap

[Chromatix]

they would have to flip the thing end on end in order for the cutting head to clear the machine plate, the 4 crank chambers etc are there from the beginning, its all the same block

[bamgoth3]

Anyone know the song?

[godbluffvdgg]

always a douchebag. you fuckin mook, you're watching a 5 axis cnc cut a block of aluminum into a W16 for the buggati and you want to know the song, i reiterate you are a douchbag. go dance to tecno ya tart

[ButtPoopWiggle]

The first engine is a W12. Look at 5:26 and a while after that for good, clean shots of only six cylinders on either side.

At 7:34, it's actually a W16 and appears to be until the end.

[Kosekans]

The missing 2 Cylinders on each side were not machined yet. Look at the crank shaft side, that block on 5:26 is designed for 8 cylinders each side.