Nauvoo Expositor printing press, destroyed by Mormons

[IExposeMormonism]

I had a thought, omiolo says "Overthrow the government" he means the kingdom of god as spoken in Mormonese. The Expositor was exposing the truth or if you're Mormon, trying to destroy Joes show.

[IExposeMormonism]

Yeah, another "oliomo" video" I have a playlist with O-holevideos....oliomo and Joe make the error of presuming Nauvoo-nia as a sacred inviolate holy land. "They feel" "outside forces" are attacking it. In fact Joe Inc & Co were displacing every law in favor of their own law and attacking anything threatening their own violence! If some President had his ass exposed in the news would/could he have the Press destroyed for the truth? Only in Mormonia and star base kolob. And Russia.

[Zakuska71]

Here are two other sources for you:

Joseph Fielding Smith. Life of Joseph F. Smith, p81

(Carthage Conspiracy, Oaks and Hill, pp. 15-16.)

[utahpirateradio]

Can you name the 15 people aquitted? Curious, because anecdotal from a co-conspirer doesn't really count as fact in a court of law, or to me.

I would much rather see the minutes of the court hearings. Got that?

[slu2com]

Seriously, can you name any of these men? Do you know of any state records that document this information?

Hearsay doesn't count.

[Zakuska71]

Joseph Smith Pledged reparations of Damages of the Expositor to Governor Ford in a letter as well as in the Interview he had with Governor Ford the Night Before. This Letter can be accessed in "History of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS". Its at the top of page 539.

[utahpirateradio]

Again, anecdotal information from a co-conspirer doesn't count as fact.

And the fact is, that Joseph Smith was bankrupt, had no money, and could not possibly pay for the damages, even if he had offered.

Besides, his offer was conditional. Not according to state law.

[Zakuska71]

"Co-conspirater"? What are you even talking about? Joseph's Letter to Governor Ford Pledging reperations for Damages is a matter of public record. It wouldn't matter if he where dressed in a barrel, He pledged to make it all good. If he was Bankrupt as you claim... How was he able to give his prize white stallion to raise funds to free a slave girl just weeks before?

[slu2com]

""Co-conspirater"? What are you even talking about?"

I am saying that the ONLY reference that you have given come NOT from state records. It comes from Mormons (i.e. co-conspirators) at that time.

Mormons claim to be so ambitious and knowledgeable. So here is a challenge. Instead of this anecdotal information from co-conspirators, make a video and show me some state records. Something substantial.

You don't need to film yourself like I did me. Just put up the references.

[Zakuska71]

First some facts:

-In the 10 years surrounding the expositor press incident. 16 presses where abated in the midwest, 2 of which where Mormon presses in missouri which where "burned to the Ground".

- The 15 town council members who where tried for it where all equited.

[slu2com]

First of all, the Mormon presses in Missouri that were burned were not protected under state law, because in state law, and in federal law, there were no protections of freedom of the press.

But in Illinois, there was a law protecting free speech, and the freedom of the press. Both of which Joseph Smith as mayor violated.

Another fact, is that under Illinois state law, if a civil property is taken or destroyed, the governing body MUST compensate the owners at fair market value. Joseph didn't

[Zakuska71]

You seem to forget the FACT that Joseph Smith pledged to pay for the damages personally if the Civil courts found the Town council had over stepped its bounds. It was a Civil matter and Joseph wanted to leave it up to the courts to decide. Sadly. The Mob killed joseph Smith and Hyrum before they had their day in court.

[utahpirateradio]

"It was a Civil matter and Joseph wanted to leave it up to the courts to decide. "

First please show me a valid historical reference (not LDS church history, but public historical records) that Joseph Smith offered to pay for this. I already pointed out, that he was broke as a result of his fraudulent bank experience.

And secondly, the Freedom of the Press act of 1819 in Illinois protected the Expositor. Joseph Smith broke the law by ordering it's destruction.

[utahpirateradio]

Thus, whether or not the destruction of the press was legal depends primarily on the laws of the state of Illinois and the Nauvoo Charter. Among the rights enacted in the 1818 Constitution of Illinois were a prohibition against ex post facto laws[5] and a provision for the freedom of the press.[6] It is clear that the city of Nauvoo's actions against the Expositor violated the Illinois constitution's freedom-of-press provision. This provision read as follows: (continued..)

[utahpirateradio]

(continued).. "22. The printing presses shall be free to every person, who undertakes to examine the proceedings of the general assembly or of any branch of government; and no law shall ever be made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write, and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty. (continued2)

[utahpirateradio]

(continued2) "23. In prosecutions for the publication of papers investigating the official conduct of officers, or of men acting in a public capacity, or where the matter published is proper for public information, the truth thereof may be given in evidence. And in all indictments for libels, the jury shall have the right of determining both the law and the fact, under the direction of the court as in other cases." (Art. VIII, cl. 2223). "

So it was a violation of free speech!

[utahpirateradio]

"You seem to forget the FACT that Joseph Smith pledged to pay for the damages personally if the Civil courts found the Town council had over stepped its bounds."

First that wasn't the law. The law said that if the government body destroys, or attains a civilian property then that government shall pay fair market value. There was no clause involved.

And like I said before. Joseph Smith had to have the LDS member bail him out to the tune of 50K on his fraudulent bank charges.

[utahpirateradio]

See this video on Joseph Smith's phony bank "The Kirkland Safety Society", which was denied a bank charter by the US Treasury department, on the basis that the bank had no assets to back up their notes.

Which was further evident later when people tried to redeem their notes, and Joseph Smith could not pay them. Joseph Smith went to jail 14 times on fraud charges, and the LDS members bailed him out by paying 50K of 1830's money for restitution. HE WAS BROKE! He couldn't pay for the damages

[utahpirateradio]

Here is the video about the Kirkland Safety Society.

watch?v=vMS8WWqSgZQ

You can plainly see that Joseph Smith was a dead beat con-man.

[utahpirateradio]

Also in April 18, 1942- Joseph and Hyrum Smith filed for bankruptcy.

[Zakuska71]

The other FACT you missed was the 15 people indicted for the Expositor where equited once. Then tried again for the same Crime at the behest of Governor Ford. That was an illegal case of Double Jeoprardy. And yet again they where equited.

[utahpirateradio]

"The other FACT you missed was the 15 people indicted for the Expositor where equited once. "

Who, when? I have never saw any such thing, neither in Mormon pumped up apologetics, or in any reliable historical reference. So please cite your references.

[Zakuska71]

You also forgot the Bill of rights-

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference, and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers"

[Zakuska71]

Since they where equited there where no damages to pay.

[utahpirateradio]

"Since they where equited there where no damages to pay. "

WHO was acquitted, when, and what is your reference. Thanks!

[factsanddata]

Actually you are wrong... the nauvoo expositor did call for the revocation of the Nauvoo City Charter... same thing as overthrowing the government.

ps... you don't even know how to pronounce the nauvoo expositor properly

[slu2com]

This Nauvoo Charter was a religious declaration. And calling to end a city charter does not mean that anyone attempted to overthrow the government. It is called democracy.

It would be like someone petitioning to end the Patriot Act.

There is nothing illegal about this type of lobbying, NOR is it considered overthrowing the government.

Do some actual research instead of this crap force fed to you by Mormon apologist!

[slu2com]

Now sending a mob down to destroy someone's business, especially a business considered "the press" is a violation in several ways.

1. It violated the Illinois Free Speech act of 1819.

2. It is required that a warrant or citation be issued for said destruction, non was given. Not even an official warning.

3. Due compensation is required to be paid by the government that assumes or destroy said public property, and Nauvoo never did.

But, this all goes back to the Free Speech act of 1819.

[factsanddata]

Are you familiar with the Presbyterian minister Elisha Lovejoy? What happened when his press was destroyed in Illinois?

That should give you insight into this law you keep quoting.

[slu2com]

"Elisha Lovejoy? What happened when his press was destroyed in Illinois?"

He was murdered by a mob..

Both the press destruction, and the murder was illegal.

However, that does not give any insight to the illegalities of what the City Council of Nauvoo did.

The city of Nauvoo committed a crime when they destroyed the Nauvoo Expositor. For the 3 reasons that I gave above.

[factsanddata]

It gives insight if you know the history... not if you're an internet historian with an agenda.

[slu2com]

" not if you're an internet historian with an agenda. "

Sounds like you are describing yourself

[factsanddata]

The Nauvoo charter was not a religious document. The Nauvoo Charter was given to the Nauvoo City government by the state... and it authorized them to form a local government with independent courts and a militia.

If they were to lose that they would have to revert to a county government that was unfriendly to mormons.... that's why they feared losing their charter... that's why they didn't like the expositor calling for its revocation.

[slu2com]

"The Nauvoo charter was not a religious document. "

The LDS church, the LDS leadership, and religious leaders such as Jesus Christ were listed more than anything else in that document.

It may have ALSO been a political document. However, that does not give it exclusion from protest!

The great thing about our Freedom of Speech, and living in a free nation, is our ability to protest our government!!

[slu2com]

"that's why they didn't like the expositor calling for its revocation. "

I am sure George Bush didn't like the city of Austin TX passing an ordinance against the Patriot Act. But they did, and it was the voice of the people that made it happen. Several newspapers called for it's revocation, and eventually an ordinance passed. It was all perfectly legal. Just like what the Expositor was doing.

[dimtry19]

...Viewers CAN view the actual issue on line in its original newsprint format and can see that the publishers were exposing immorality (polygamy) which they referred to as his "whore-dom"...the issue says NOTHING about sedition..

[nauvoochristian]

No problem, thought you and others might like to see it.

We are all working together to get the truth out in our own way ~ Grace and peace

[nauvoochristian]

Watch the Nauvoo Expositor video with Rocky and Helen Hulse it will shed more light on this topic.

Keep your video posts coming - the truth will always stand the test of time.

[utahpirateradio]

Thanks! I'll check that out!

Take care bro and sis!

[utahpirateradio]

youtube. com/watch?v=8ZOpJaLr6p0