Palmer PDI-09 Guitar Direct Box Demonstration

[Blackopcodered]

nice

[rrrrockin]

groovay....

[TheDriveMaster]

Nice! Can we have a clean sound?

[akaboo69]

humbothsond good i thinkthe real cab was brighter

[derdude]

so you are using the output of the amp to record the guitar? the signal chain is guitar -> di box -> amp -> mixer (from amp output).. is that right?

thanks!

[freakybuzz]

Yes, the sound created by the power amp is what is what the Palmer send to the board. But the DI is in parallel between the power amp and the speakers. So a more proper signal chain would be: Guitar -> Pre & Power Amp-> // DI -> // Speakers

[derdude]

thanks for your fast answer!

[asharpminor]

@freakybuzz I'd love to see a video of a driven amp beeing attenuated by 30db just to see how loud it would still go...

[freakybuzz]

@asharpminor The DI only attenuates the level of the signal coming from of the XLR out. It does not alter the volume or tone of the amplifier at all. As a matter of fact, this was recorded straight off a power amp with 30dB attenuation. The volume out of the amp remained the same. If you want to change the volume of the amp while still driving it, you will need an attenuator such as a THD hot plate.

[clayton5150]

you lose cabinet resinance. which would explain loss in bass.

[Neosablenk2000]

can I use hi-fi speaker and audio amp when using this pdi-9?

[vasilisthevoice]

can anyone help me?for an acoustic guitar what do you suggest for di box?,active or passive?lr baggs or radial j48?

[botman1]

I'm sorry but to me the EQd, reverber version which is played in the end of the video sounds very muddy... shouldn't it have some of the mids cut (to remove the mud) or should it stay that muddy in a mix?

[Xidium426]

I think it sounded muddy as well, but that is probably the tone they where going for.

[ILuvMongoose]

Hey man, just thought I'd comment on this video again after a long time.

There's been a whole slew of free "impulse" cab simulations released online recently that laying the sound of units like these palmers to WASTE.

If you're interested in trying this out, if you haven't already, shoot me a message and I'll give you my MSN.

[reversal420]

what kind of xlr cable do i need for this? male or female? thanks

[freakybuzz]

All XLR connections all work the same way: the female end of the cable plugs into the source (Mic, DI, preamp), the male end plugs into the destination (snake, mixing desk, or extension cable).

[BigCowz]

Anyone know the difference between active and passive direct boxes?

[freakybuzz]

Active direct boxes use electric current (either D.C. or Phantom) while passive direct boxes pass the signal through without the need for additional power. VERY broadly speaking, active direct boxes are more expensive and produce a higher-quality signal.

The Palmer is passive, as it is designed to be wired in between the power amp and speaker.

[mrchrisbeaver]

hey thanks for posting this i was lookng for some info on these.

i thought the first sound with the sm57 sounded richer, was more 3d and had more dynamics, the palmer kinda sounded like it sucked the life out the amp, and was very digital sounding

[freakybuzz]

Hey, different strokes for different folks.

Curious; what monitoring setup were you previewing this video on? If you are using ordinary computer speakers or consumer headphones, I'd recommend previewing the tone on a set of studio monitors. People who make judgements of the tone when listening to the former invariably change their opinion after listening to the latter.

People seem to like my recorded guitar tone enough to keep paying me for it, so I must be doing something right. :-)

[mrchrisbeaver]

i was listening through my Adam S2A Active Nearfield Monitors. do you have any higher bit rate demos? as youtube compression really takes away detail.

[mrchrisbeaver]

i been looking for a while for a solution to capture the detail and response from my amps without micing them, i got a axetrak iso cab which is good but a bit weak and lacking in air. the closest Ive got so far is using a combination of my amps preamp out into custom impulse responses i made of my cabs tonaly there 99% identical but the feel is not the same

[MusiciansQuarters]

Can you make other videos like folling the signal chain after the fxs or in the loop as you said. Also how do the filters on this compair to that of the pdi03 which will drive the line effects?? When I had the pdi-03 I was amp to the attentuator on the pdi-03 then that line ran my line effects with the filter sounded ungodly! So how do the filters comapir to that of the pdi-03 and how come this wont drive say the line effects like the pdi-03??

[freakybuzz]

It's a Direct Box, not a line driver.

I've never used the PDI-03, and don't know how it sounds.

I'm not clear how you're running your effects. Are you trying to emulate a Post-Amp setup like what you'd do in a mixing console? Most dedicated guitar effects are designed to be placed in the signal chain (series or parallel) before any sort of power amp or speaker. Unless you are after a specific sound, I would let the sound engineer add post-amp effects, or use a digital box (e.g. Line6 POD).

[MusiciansQuarters]

I understand this completey, however it seems to be built like a pdi-03 minus the load. What we are doing here? I'm sure a lot of guitarist is taping that speaker signal line out and running our effects on that side, however, the harshness can be cut by the pdi-03 as eddie used to drive his effect(wet) cabs. So I guess run effects then run the pdi--09 at the end of the chain to power amp.

[jtroska]

All the Palmer speaker simulators supposedly use the same filter. I don't own a PDI03. But I do own a PGA04 and the PDI09 and PGA04 can be set to sound exactly the same. The difference is the PGA04 has more sounds that fall in between the 3 sounds of the PDI09. So I believe the PDI03 would sound exactly like the PDI09 as far as the filter goes. But using the PDI09 with a real speaker load may sound more realistic than using the PDI03's same filter with it's static dummy load.

[kyle317289]

Wow that sounded much better than I expected!

Does the palmer work as an amp attenuator as well or is the db attenuation just for the di signal?

[freakybuzz]

DI only. It works best placed between the power amp and the speaker, where it passes the signal through to the speaker cab unaltered. It is not-and this is important-a power soak or attenuator. You will need a "load", especially when using tube amps. The Palmer and a power soak (e.g. Hot Plate) is an excellent solution for a more controlled onstage volume.

Alternately, you can run it in a FX loop or at the end of a stomp-box chain with no DI attenuation, so it is a very flexible little device.

[parsonsmatt]

No offense, but the mic'ed track had quite a bit more clarity. The mud and fizz you got is almost certainly due to poor mic technique. The PDI clip is muffled, and the processed tone sounds even worse...

[freakybuzz]

I'm crying all the way to the bank, kid. ;-)

[parsonsmatt]

Hey, whatever makes you happy is what's most important. We all have different ears and different preferences.

It's funny to hear you say, "Wow, so much clearer" when the tone is quite a bit less clear.

[katholguitarist]

wow you don't take constructive criticism very well. lol.

[freakybuzz]

It all depends on who is dispensing it.

[jtroska]

We need to hear the real speaker miced up before we can judge the simulation of that sound.

[freakybuzz]

I'm not sure I get what point you're trying to make. As I said in my explanation, I had only one unit to sell in the first place. The buyer (singular) was very happy, and at the end of the day, whatever we think of as a "Good" or "Bad" recording tool/technique is equal parts subjective opinion and empirical data.

[ILuvMongoose]

I prefer the SM57 sound by far. Sounds much more natural.

[freakybuzz]

Nothing wrong with that at all. :-) Different sessions require different tones. Sometimes the "naturalness" of the 57 is just what's required-- other times we need a different flavor in a mix via a differ mic, technique, or by running through a Speaker Sim.

As the old proverb says: "Cut the cloth to fit the garment."

[ILuvMongoose]

Aye, but it's the same as all those tube amp "simulators."

Just go for the real thing.

There's no substitute in my opinion.

[freakybuzz]

Idealism vs. Pragmatism

Yes, if you have access to tube amps for every single session you do, a great recording room, a closet full of great microphones, and skilled engineers at the desk, then more power to you. Best. Sound. Period. :-)

Most of the time, however, I need to lay down some tracks FAST into my DAW for whatever new project comes down the pipe. I reach for my POD or Plug-Ins, knock it out quick, and rest in the knowledge that 95% of the people who hear it won't know the difference.

[ILuvMongoose]

I get awesome results with my Peavey 5150 in my bedroom with the channel volume on 2.

MORE than usable. And I can get it all set up in about 10 minutes.

I had a Pod XT which I used for recording before I got my 5150, and I did get good results out of it, but nothing as alive sounding as my 5150 does.

And yeah, the Palmer doesn't sound bad by any means, I've heard some great mixes that have used them, it's just that the SM57 is BETTER and it's necessarily any slower to set up than a Palmer/POD.

[jtroska]

I bought a Palmer PDI09 after hearing this demo because I could hear its potential even though the SM57 sounds more natural here. This video was made using the "normal" filter setting. But the darker "Mellow" setting smoothes out that brittle high end and I like it better. It's really good for live sound reinforcement because it provides a constant sound. That keeps sound check time down to a minimum. And the sound doesn't change if it gets bumped as it would from a real mic.

[ILuvMongoose]

Would be interesting to hear some clips?

I'm sure this thing COULD be better, and of course Youtubes destroying the quality.

Message me.

[jtroska]

I want to make some demonstration clips. But it'll have to wait until at least the week of June 8th. My gear is packed for being moved to gigs. I wonder if this thing would be too bright for your 5150. I like midrangey Marshall sounds. And the Palmer gives such a clear representation of that sound. But the clear, vibrant sound of the Palmer with the bright sound of a 5150 might be too much.

[jtroska]

Thanks so much for doing this. I've really wanted to hear the Palmer. And putting it right after the an SM57 sample puts everything in perspective. Very nice demo. I can hear the pros and cons of both. The Palmer has more clarity. But the SM57 made me believe I was hearing a real amp. As a fan of live music, I'd opt for the SM57. But home recording enthusiasts may love the Palmer for it's tight cleaned up sound literally right out of the box. I bet the Palmer comes closer to an e609 mic

[MichaelBradus]

Both sound pretty bad to me.

[acdgui]

Buy some ears dude.

[Lavabug]

I own one of these and it is indeed awesome. Makes anything going straight into a mixer sound -be it an amp DI'd or a distortion pedal- 100 times better.

Too bad there's no demo for the bright and warm modes.