Steinem's idea of feminism meant a woman had to be pro-abortion, anti-family and anti-man -- anti-anything moral! I always believed that feminism was about what a woman wanted to do. That meant a woman had the right to make a choice. Palin and Bachmann are true feminists. They are pro-life, pro-family and they made it in a man’s world without invoking the victim status! Steinem is more about politics than about feminist! As far as eco-feminism? Learn about United Nations Agenda 21.
straight women and gay men produce fashion magazines for the most part and construct those fantasies...to sell product of course for mega corps which are owned by pensioners men and women... i love fashion as a creative person...and hate it as a woman!
there are essentialists feminists and non essentialist feminists... essentialists would discuss a 'feminist physics' with a straight face.... so please make a distinction...non-essientialists would like most people see that as absurd..HOWEVER...anthropology, social biology and a few others are notoriously gendered in some of the false starts of those communities of practice....
We are products of our upbringing. Were you raped? Mollested? Abused? Used? Etc. as a child? If so you will have less regard for yourself as an adult. None of these are good things.
The media also plays a huge roll in shaping our ideas. Little girls are taught to be consumed with "how they look" instead of "who they are". And men are taught to act like pubescent boys (not passing blame).
Some great points. I loved this video. I also love it when you do videos together.
The only thing I would add about sex positive feminism is that we give a certain amount of respect to the human "animal" that radical feminists don't. I think social construction exists it's not all there is. Also, sex positives tend to support sex workers rights more.
Well-done- hit a lot of ground I've covered thru the years in my interest in gender stuff. Couple quick notes: in discussions re: representation of minority interests and identifying as part of a minority, I've noticed the downsides are leftout. Yes, there are pros, but there are also cons. For instance, minority sexism/racism (while as prevalent or moreso than that of the majority), gets a pass. At a big picture level, cover is provided.
@tr13 its a very simple question. do you think we should encourage or discourage, as a society, the practice of prostitution?
the demand comes before the supply here.. your arguments are a capitalist, mysoganists wet dream.. forget about the implications of such an industry, if we argue from the perspective that the women WANT to do it, then there is no comeback. sorry, not buyin it. it is a very small percentage of men who use those services. and most women would not date a man who does
@triskaidekaphobe13 this whole 'its a womans right to choose' argument is laughable as it is TINY percentage of prostitutes that are in it cos they purely enjoy it and dont wanna do anythin else. a little context... it is legal here. i (and none of the 'antis' on YT want to criminalise the workers. it is more an opposition to commericalisation and support for providing alternatives. that is somethin the pros do not acknowledge. they want to paint us to be authoritarian.
@triskaidekaphobe13 I like this statement because in many instances feminism as a whole is self-destructive. All of the issues of feminism, race politics, or any other unintentionally "divisive" perspective comes from our human leaning towards tribalism.
Feminism is almost a study in how women should be equal, but in trying to get that equality they become their own tribe. The reality is that individual female oppression is because of individual choices - same with male oppressors as a role.
@t13 would u say that sweat shops in china are exploitative? because the children who work in them do so 'willingly'
also u have to ask yrself underwhat circumstances do these people become prostitutes 'willingly'? often it is as a result of having no other option, living in poverty, after a childhood of abuse or drug addiction & many other undesirable aspects that shape their 'willingness' to engage (i do not make the same statement 4 the whole sex industry or even all prostitutes
I really like that you bring up feminist issues that deal with men.
Males have to worry about being treated differently because they're seen as effeminate or "gay" — even if they're straight. Even from a very young age, boys are limited in their selection of toys and games, and teased if they like "girly" stuff.
Clearly, this isn't as bad as economic discrimination and social domination directed toward women, but it's still a damn good reason for any man to oppose patriarchy.
That's actually a very heterocentric view. And I'll note that in Ancient Greece, eroticization of male body was largely a homophile thing, not for the benefit of a female gaze. (I realize I'm talking mainly about Athenian society, but that's what is usually generalized as "Ancient Greek culture". And I have yet to find any convincing examples of classical Greek cultures that were significantly egalitarian toward women.)
I actually don't think it was a "funny critique" that that guy was giving. It's actually quite honest that men are taught not to cry. We are taught that we can't be victims or abused or anything. When I was raped by another man and when I was in an abusive relationship with a man... I was given little to no concern at all. I was given the basic "man up" bullshit.
(2/2) agree with pretty much everythin the lady prof said in this video.. lol!
the term 'sex positive' feminist is terribly misleading and is basically used by people who want to distance themselves from the the less popular aspects of feminism. there are no 'anti sex' feminists, only anti exploitation feminists.
If you think Sheila Jeffreys isn't anti-sex, or at least supporting only an *incredibly* narrow version of what proper sex is, then you either have no clue as to what she supports or are being disingenuous. Some versions of feminism are every bit as sexually narrow as traditional religious moralism and on as unsupportable a basis.
When you make blanket statements about feminism being this or being that, you simply cannot take what's true of a dozen YTers and generalize. I'm talking about the movement as a whole and who has influence in it. (And I'll note that several of the YT radical feminists think very highly of Jeffreys. What does that say?)
You know, the line they always say "its not all about you"? Well, it happens to apply to those people to, in this case, the collective "you".
And, BTW, I think the examples that BobChaos gives in his recent video do show a definite slut-shaming mentality. That kind of slut-shaming is most definitely a manifestation of cultural sex-negativity these "radicals" not only fail to transcend, but actively reinforce.
*That*, in a nutshell, is why there is a need for a "sex-positive feminism".
@iamcuriousblue the whole slut shaming thing is another smoke screen thrown up by the 'sex pos' fems to make those talking about the negative aspects of the sex industry appear bigoted and moralistic. its a dirty, underhand, dishonest tactic.
Smoke screen indeed. Its a very real form of bigotry, and just because people like you seek to justify the horizontal hostility and authoritarianism of a narrow political faction does not invalidate that critique.
I see some pretty close parallels between the types of feminist attitudes you seek to justify and the arguments by classical Communists that the Soviet system was actually liberating. Same reactionary, authoritarian bullshit peddled as being "radical".
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Steinem's idea of feminism meant a woman had to be pro-abortion, anti-family and anti-man -- anti-anything moral! I always believed that feminism was about what a woman wanted to do. That meant a woman had the right to make a choice. Palin and Bachmann are true feminists. They are pro-life, pro-family and they made it in a man’s world without invoking the victim status! Steinem is more about politics than about feminist! As far as eco-feminism? Learn about United Nations Agenda 21.
vechorik 7 months ago
"A de-sexing of the male body"........YES, YES, YES. Thank you for making that point!
ElementSid115 1 year ago
great vid... long though! it's funny...eventrually you covered many of my points...
CityzenJane 1 year ago
straight women and gay men produce fashion magazines for the most part and construct those fantasies...to sell product of course for mega corps which are owned by pensioners men and women... i love fashion as a creative person...and hate it as a woman!
CityzenJane 1 year ago
if another author sat in for miller besides nin...it would have been revealed as well...
CityzenJane 1 year ago
there are essentialists feminists and non essentialist feminists... essentialists would discuss a 'feminist physics' with a straight face.... so please make a distinction...non-essientialists would like most people see that as absurd..HOWEVER...anthropology, social biology and a few others are notoriously gendered in some of the false starts of those communities of practice....
CityzenJane 1 year ago
You can be pro-sex and anti-porn..or more generally anti-exploitation.....
CityzenJane 1 year ago
pro sex feminism isn't all that new... read some Sappho!
CityzenJane 1 year ago
thumbs up if TJ brought you here ^.^
sandysuicide 1 year ago
We are products of our upbringing. Were you raped? Mollested? Abused? Used? Etc. as a child? If so you will have less regard for yourself as an adult. None of these are good things.
The media also plays a huge roll in shaping our ideas. Little girls are taught to be consumed with "how they look" instead of "who they are". And men are taught to act like pubescent boys (not passing blame).
To objectify is to dehumanize.
rhocando 1 year ago
"maybe the monkey makes you laugh" lol!
Some great points. I loved this video. I also love it when you do videos together.
The only thing I would add about sex positive feminism is that we give a certain amount of respect to the human "animal" that radical feminists don't. I think social construction exists it's not all there is. Also, sex positives tend to support sex workers rights more.
Divinity33372 1 year ago 3
@Divinity33372 Many thanks for the comments.
Professoranton 1 year ago
Well-done- hit a lot of ground I've covered thru the years in my interest in gender stuff. Couple quick notes: in discussions re: representation of minority interests and identifying as part of a minority, I've noticed the downsides are leftout. Yes, there are pros, but there are also cons. For instance, minority sexism/racism (while as prevalent or moreso than that of the majority), gets a pass. At a big picture level, cover is provided.
tkoaho 1 year ago
Comment removed
TWITfromURANUS 1 year ago
@tr13 its a very simple question. do you think we should encourage or discourage, as a society, the practice of prostitution?
the demand comes before the supply here.. your arguments are a capitalist, mysoganists wet dream.. forget about the implications of such an industry, if we argue from the perspective that the women WANT to do it, then there is no comeback. sorry, not buyin it. it is a very small percentage of men who use those services. and most women would not date a man who does
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
@triskaidekaphobe13 this whole 'its a womans right to choose' argument is laughable as it is TINY percentage of prostitutes that are in it cos they purely enjoy it and dont wanna do anythin else. a little context... it is legal here. i (and none of the 'antis' on YT want to criminalise the workers. it is more an opposition to commericalisation and support for providing alternatives. that is somethin the pros do not acknowledge. they want to paint us to be authoritarian.
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
@triskaidekaphobe13 I like this statement because in many instances feminism as a whole is self-destructive. All of the issues of feminism, race politics, or any other unintentionally "divisive" perspective comes from our human leaning towards tribalism.
Feminism is almost a study in how women should be equal, but in trying to get that equality they become their own tribe. The reality is that individual female oppression is because of individual choices - same with male oppressors as a role.
70m0kun 1 year ago
@t13 would u say that sweat shops in china are exploitative? because the children who work in them do so 'willingly'
also u have to ask yrself underwhat circumstances do these people become prostitutes 'willingly'? often it is as a result of having no other option, living in poverty, after a childhood of abuse or drug addiction & many other undesirable aspects that shape their 'willingness' to engage (i do not make the same statement 4 the whole sex industry or even all prostitutes
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
Interesting juxtaposition of your video with an advert for meeting Russian women since i have read tht Russian women are post-feminist!
nargargole 1 year ago
Do please let her finish.
Ramiiam 1 year ago
Awesome. I liked the format (the two of you + a long reply). Good bye TV, welcome YT reply vids.
timeofwonder2009 1 year ago
Wow...your wife is very striking. You win Professor.
Elenkhos 1 year ago
Labels are such a complicated thing. This is why I hardly ever use them.
phlewis86 1 year ago
@phlewis86 lol dude.. I did a double take when I read the first word in your comment as "Ladies".
Gesmehod 1 year ago
I really like that you bring up feminist issues that deal with men.
Males have to worry about being treated differently because they're seen as effeminate or "gay" — even if they're straight. Even from a very young age, boys are limited in their selection of toys and games, and teased if they like "girly" stuff.
Clearly, this isn't as bad as economic discrimination and social domination directed toward women, but it's still a damn good reason for any man to oppose patriarchy.
shiningwhiffle 1 year ago
"Male body has been desexed"
That's actually a very heterocentric view. And I'll note that in Ancient Greece, eroticization of male body was largely a homophile thing, not for the benefit of a female gaze. (I realize I'm talking mainly about Athenian society, but that's what is usually generalized as "Ancient Greek culture". And I have yet to find any convincing examples of classical Greek cultures that were significantly egalitarian toward women.)
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
Cute couple.
Sconz32 1 year ago
You look perplexed at the 18 minute mark :)
I actually don't think it was a "funny critique" that that guy was giving. It's actually quite honest that men are taught not to cry. We are taught that we can't be victims or abused or anything. When I was raped by another man and when I was in an abusive relationship with a man... I was given little to no concern at all. I was given the basic "man up" bullshit.
tattooskin72 1 year ago 7
Probably the best video response I've ever gotten. I love the dialogue format of the video. Liked and faved.
Nykytyne2 1 year ago 3
@Nykytyne2 Thank you so much for your kind words
Professoranton 1 year ago
I love it when you two do videos together. They are always very interesting.
DanaGarrett 1 year ago 5
@DanaGarrett Thank you Dana
Professoranton 1 year ago
great response guys!
thumbs up and such. : )
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
(2/2) agree with pretty much everythin the lady prof said in this video.. lol!
the term 'sex positive' feminist is terribly misleading and is basically used by people who want to distance themselves from the the less popular aspects of feminism. there are no 'anti sex' feminists, only anti exploitation feminists.
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
@oojamaflipper
If you think Sheila Jeffreys isn't anti-sex, or at least supporting only an *incredibly* narrow version of what proper sex is, then you either have no clue as to what she supports or are being disingenuous. Some versions of feminism are every bit as sexually narrow as traditional religious moralism and on as unsupportable a basis.
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
@iamcuriousblue i was referring to those here on YT who get labelled anti sex.
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
@oojamaflipper
When you make blanket statements about feminism being this or being that, you simply cannot take what's true of a dozen YTers and generalize. I'm talking about the movement as a whole and who has influence in it. (And I'll note that several of the YT radical feminists think very highly of Jeffreys. What does that say?)
You know, the line they always say "its not all about you"? Well, it happens to apply to those people to, in this case, the collective "you".
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
@oojamaflipper
And, BTW, I think the examples that BobChaos gives in his recent video do show a definite slut-shaming mentality. That kind of slut-shaming is most definitely a manifestation of cultural sex-negativity these "radicals" not only fail to transcend, but actively reinforce.
*That*, in a nutshell, is why there is a need for a "sex-positive feminism".
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
@iamcuriousblue the whole slut shaming thing is another smoke screen thrown up by the 'sex pos' fems to make those talking about the negative aspects of the sex industry appear bigoted and moralistic. its a dirty, underhand, dishonest tactic.
oojamaflipper 1 year ago
@oojamaflipper
Smoke screen indeed. Its a very real form of bigotry, and just because people like you seek to justify the horizontal hostility and authoritarianism of a narrow political faction does not invalidate that critique.
I see some pretty close parallels between the types of feminist attitudes you seek to justify and the arguments by classical Communists that the Soviet system was actually liberating. Same reactionary, authoritarian bullshit peddled as being "radical".
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
@oojamaflipper Thanks.
Professoranton 1 year ago
ZJemptv has done more to erode gender stereotypes than all the feminists on youtube.
zarkoff45 1 year ago