Great to see you doing some looking. I think your name may give away your bias...
Bruxy Is saying that these theories that are being brought up now can be traced back to 100 years ago not that there aren't rooted in earlier writings. Also, the quote you had about the three days and nights you said was found in the first century which is what Bruxy says. It post-dates the events of Christ. just wanted to point out your own point.
Mr bruxy you are a fucking idiot. Religion is plainly bullshit, there were life before jesus and christianity and it was not what they are telling us today so you go do your research! jackass....
See below for some citations which elucidate the idea that Pastor Bruxy Cavey is talking nonsense. At about 2:10 he claims that the makers of Zeitgeist "are betting on the fact that most of us are lazy when it comes to research." Well, I have undertaken extensive research and there is a wealth of credible scholarly and classical opinion to support many of the claims that the movie makes. See below for examples of how Pastor Cavey's opinions are refuted by evidence from "books" he wants u 2 read!
There is also an established body of scholarly opinion which espouses the notion that the "Nativity Scene" of Jesus' birth, as described in the Gospel according to Luke, has its roots in much older, established Ancient Egyptian mythology. This is supported by reference to actual temple reliefs, historical artifacts which pre-date the mythology of Christianity by some 1,500 years. See the scholarly work of Egyptologists Dr. Samuel Clarke or Professor Barry J Kemp at Cambridge University!
In the temple of Amun at the site of Luxor in Egypt appears a series of scenes depicting the divine birth of the pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty (c. 1570-1293 BC), Amenhotep/Amenhotpe or Amenophis III, who reigned during the 14th century BCE (c. 1390-c. 1352 BC). The Luxor "Nativity imagery" represents a significant artifact demonstrating important pre-Christian religious motifs evidently - later - incorporated into Christianity.
The three-day period and resurrection of Osiris / Horus is also recorded by first century historian Plutarch (39, 366D-E) as occurring on the 17th, 18th and 19th of the month Athyr (Hathor). (Source: Plutarch, "Isis and Osiris", translated by Frank Cole Babbitt)
So, again, while Bruxy would have you believe that the Zeigeist movie is essentially based on the work of 2 scholars who lived one hundred years ago, he is wrong and is generalising, hoping you are "too busy" to undertake research!
Rev. Dr. Alfred Bertholet, a theologian and professor at the University of Göttingen, In an article entitled 'The Pre-Christian Belief in the Resurrection of the Body', published in The American Journal of Theology by the University of Chicago Press, Dr. Bertholet remarks: "According to the faith of later times, Osiris was three days and three nights in the waters before he was restored to life again." Restored to life after death = resurrection in this christian theologian's scholarly opinion!
At 0:35 - 0:45 the speaker states: "Most of these theories can be traced back to the late 1800s - early 1900s ..." What about Plutarch, the first century AD historian who described Horus as being "Born about the Winter Solstice" - the Winter Solstice being Dec 21st to 24th; or Macrobius, who wrote about an Ancient Egyptian festival where the sun was venerated as "an infant"; or the temple relief dated 1350 BC that suggests Amenhotep III's birth involved an Anunciation and Immaculate Conception??
Cool Pastor! After watching Zeitgeist, I had some serious doubts and faith issues.........I think something that that most people (myself included) don't truly understand is that Evil presents itself as a truthful, white rose.........there is none more deceptive than Satan, and the Zeitgeist movie is an excellent example of that; it is full of Blatant Lies and Peter Joseph (the narrorator) acts as if he just "Cares" about people knowing the truth.......Peter Joseph is a Snake!
@ChiefClickClack You mean, you started to ask questions that made you uncomfortable about your life choices, then, fearful that you might have to start thinking for yourself, ran back to the arms of big daddy religion where it feels nice and comfortable.
@nwgs4nzfx2 No, I had questions, and I sought-out answers.......and I found one big answer: that the Zeitgeist documentary on religion is loaded with blatant lies.......trust me, I definitely think for myself.......I spend 100's and 1000's of hours seeking out the Truth.......I'm in the same boat as you with the same questions as you, and I'll be honest that I don't Know anything for sure, but I do Believe in certain things (just like you do), so why can't you respect that?
how can anyone, whose whole belief system, and life, is NOT based on facts, but blind "faith", argue about facts? how, in this day and age, do people still refute science in favour of having demons and gods explain everything in the universe? You're missing the point of the movie and trying to debunk it with pure semantics. so, I ask you. is the monetary system, the political system, religion, monarchies and the employee/employer/consumer roundabout really advancing mankind?
@gusmif This is a very strange response. Science is not the only method of knowledge. Science cannot even prove the law of non-contradiction, which is the foundation it's based on. And Christianity is based on historical realities. Hundreds of people witnessed Jesus resurrected, and non-Christians even wrote about Him.
The real problem is people don't want to look into it themselves, because they've figured out their conclusions before they start looking, and that close mindedness is the danger
@Spattay people worship the gods of their father and religions are generally localised, which is why you aren't a Sikh. left to your own devices, you wouldn't believe in god because there would be no reason to because it's irrelevant. you're conclusions are based on a freeze-dried, pre-packaged ideology that you've been indoctrinated with. we are all atheists. I just don't believe in one more god than you
@gusmif My religion is hardly localized, I'm a Canadian following Jesus who was from the middle east. That's also a logical fallacy that you have used called the "Genetic Fallacy".
More importantly: God has put His law in our hearts. When you hear about the Holocaust you know it's wrong. Not just culturally, but wrong. Same with murder and rape.
You say I'm indoctrinated? I actually subscribe to Atheist blogs, and other religions sources to see what others say. Christ has changed me though :)
@Spattay I'm aware of the genetic fallacy, and the point I was making is that we are ALL conditioned by our environment. If you were raised where no knowledge of christianity existed, your belief structure, and conclusions, would be different, even though you felt the same. And are you saying that, without god's law in our hearts, atheists wouldn't think murder and rape were wrong? Our brains are chemically hard wired to release MORE serotonin when give rather than when we receive.
@Spattay you are trying to prove a god exists by believing in one first. Your reference point is the bible, which, according to christianity, is the writings of god. but ALL religions say that. There's what, around 34,000 versions of christianity? And how many versions of Islam, Judaism and Buddhism? Imagine if there were that many versions of what a centimetre was. Or what the sun was. Or what gravity was. Madness. Would you prefer someone give you an answer or show you how to find one?
@Spattay and christ didn't change you. YOU changed you. You attached the metaphor. People beleive in a god because they're good people, not the other way around. Unfortunately, it's also a framework for segregation and unwitting judgement. "If they don't believe the same things I do, then how can I be sure of WHAT they believe?". LIfe doesn't discriminate. There is no such thing as a christian homo sapiens. Homo sapiens simply is. That is, we all shit, fuck, breathe and eat, the same way
@Spattay dude, I've waffled on a bit. just wanna let you know my friends are a mix of christians (catholics, protestants and born-again-hand clapper-types), atheists, othodox Russian, Greek and Polish, Kooris (Aussie Aboriginals), Pagans, Wiccans, Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and a few Buddhists. They've all had this same discussion with me. I just can't subscribe to anything that segregates us all and serves to disenfranchise us from the natural world in which we belong
This men is pupet for satanhe makes his point like a beelzebub flowler . is for the ilumenaty. satan will not have footlholds in my life. like this guy. he is evil nd ofthe devilhel ikes to waylay god's children. he says nohcurch but he has church. join the FLDS and we show you allthe truth in the world. he like gay buttsex and fecal matter, look ant interviews... check it out on pornsites
@sowheresthefire Though your grammar and spelling have many errors, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. I personally in my own porn watching have come across many videos of bruxy performing many unspeakable acts.
lol "Passing it on without doing any research". Oh, that sounds a whole lot like religion. Believing in 100 year old fiction? Oh, talk about believing in 2,000+ year old fiction.
Umm firstly i hadn't looked to see is anyone else noticed this but....They are calling Ra the sun god, Horus the sky god so if they cant get normal Egyptian lore correct how do they get the rest correct!
i cant see your message on this window, but I got it via email. What I'm saying is Christianity is completely different from the egyptian religion. Christianity is not based on some random God who may be in the sky. Christianity is based on a real person who came to Earth, and died for our sins on a cross and resurrected. Over 500 people witnessed him resurrected. And secular historians verify He was very much a real person. Christianity is not abstract, it's based on a real guy.
lol, guys! this is ridiculous! are you paying attention to what youre typing? if none of the facts in the movie are there, and thats why it says "broadly speaking", then how in the world is bruxy manipulating facts? he would simply be showing WHY its "broadly speaking" and how it can be misleading
if everyone did their own research, people would actually know what is true and what isnt.
next time you watch a movie/film, dont jump to conclusions too quickly. its so easy to make a movie and present points (true or false). its really the watcher to make their own realistic judgment.
the movie expresses it's own opinions, bruxy presents his. it's really up to the viewer to decide what he/she wants to believe. use your common sense and do your own research.
Yea people should definately research this themselves. Once people do they will realize that none of zeitgeists facts are there at all. That's why the movie says "broadly speaking" , it's unfortunately an excuse to manipulate facts to an extreme degree.
spattay, let them figure out if the "facts" the film presents are true or not. it's their fault for being easily persuaded to accept false points. it's time for people to own up to their own mistakes for not doing their own research. people these days are so easily persuaded to believe what people/media/movies say. it's a real shame.
now wayzey, where in the world did you get that? it is not true that the first written record of the Bible took place in 133 a.d. as a matter of fact, the contrary is true. stone tablets have been found in egypt and sumeria dating back to several thousand years b.c. this is simply from the old testament,
and all of it is on stone tablets because o lack of paper, if thats what you mean. if it is, then let me bring you to the first century, where everything in Jesus's apostles letters where written on paper. these letters, especially those of the apostle Paul, have been found scattered all across the roman empire and were dated to within 40 years after Jesus death.
all these letters were copied so that they could be saved, and there are no more than 60,000 copies of different pieces of the the New Testament in several different languages, yet still correlating with each other so tightly and in a way that they are so perfectly worded together that it proves their creditability. only if these ppl believed entirely what they had read would they not distort it in any way, and thats what we find.
now wait a minute, how are any of you any better than bruxy? how is bruxy any better than you? the simple answer is, "in no way." staplesmcjebus, you are doing no better than bruxy. IF he truly is doing nothing but spread lies and call names, then you should not stoop to his level in telling he has proved nothing. it is obvious, right? IF hes picking and choosing, its obvious, and doesnt need an anouncement.
now, lets suppose hes not. you say the egyptian dieties show up far before Christianity, which is true. but, they are in no way predating to Judaism, whose prophets foretold the coming of the Messiah centuries before. now, if Jesus matches up with every single one of these prophesies, which he does, then it can not be said that
he is false, or nonexistant.
now, weve concluded that Christianity is postdated to egyptian diety,but the basis of it predates the egyptian dieties.what does that say?
zeitgiest didn't spread lies, this preacher is picking and choosing certain info that favors his argument and ignoring the fact that egyptian dieties and otherwise still have the majority of their facts pre date christianity.... and lets all marvel at his christian immaturity by name calling and belittling zeitgiest to other myths... by the time the audience is done laughing at his attempt at a joke they have already forgotten bruxy proved absolutely nothing other than he is also media literate
give one example of the claims you make, that'd be cool.
You don't have to believe Bruxy, just look into the scholarship for yourself =).
Zeitgeist is just a really bad unscholarly excuse to not look into the person of Jesus. For he was a real person, and died and rose again for our sins. And 11 disciples were willing to die for the belief they saw him resurrected...
so as a christian you are totally "cool" with him not loving his neighbor, doing unto others as he would want done to him, exc
oh right, you just chose to ignore that rule but side with this mindless argument. face it, people are free to think and believe. i'm not saying you don't have a right to believe, but stop acting like your religion is the "end-all-be-all" path of living and trying to deny others that right.
This guy has no argument whatsoever. He just called them lairs and said they are stupid. Nice try Christians. Your story book is comforting, I know, but it just doesn't make any sense nowadays.
Sounds like you didn't watch all three parts. The great thing is you don't have to believe him , consult any historical sources, any encyclopedia. The fact is you won't find any of zeitgeists "facts" in them.
mesia2 you are soooooooo corrrect this guy is a fool for one its not all bout god they begin with god and lead into the moving trying to get at point our world is controlled by money. this guy is a dumby head half a brain alll these ppl complaining bout zeitgeist are upset bout god they are not just talkin bout god. maybe they should watch the whole vid.
It's not Christianity's fault that some of the people commenting here aren't able to make any kind of personal connection with God. They're probably really good at lots of other things - like ranting and arguing for example. :)
Jesus Christ was a real person. Even non biblical accounts verify that. I encourage you to look into this. It's worth it to seek the truth. It's not worth it to be close minded about this, the stakes are too high.
Everywhere I go, someone new is getting blamed. Blame is a completely natural concept when there is no such thing as right and wrong. Why is there so much hate between different sects that all want to know the Truth? Deep down, thats all we want to know. Doesn't matter if you're religious or not, we all enjoy the mystery of life to some degree... so why are we wasting time blaming each Other when it is Our fault?
It reminds me of the old Sesame Street moment, where Ernie takes the last bit of ice cream, Bert is mad (or sad) that Ernie did this, so Ernie says "Don't worry! I'll make some more". A scoop of mashed potatoes (cuz it's white like ice cream), some ice cubes (so it's cold), and gravy (cuz it's brown like chocolate sauce). "They're the SAME! Aren't you happy now, Bert?!?"
Jesus didn't come to make a new religion but to point us to God. And the Bible is written to help us in this journey. Anyone worshiping a book should be questioned, but as a Christian it's important we follow what the Bible says because it has the inspired words of God in it, God speaking through people.
If you are religious you can not use rational reasoning to argue your beliefs as the very beliefs you hold use a fundelmentally corrupt use of reasoning (eg.Circular reasoning, the bible is true because the bible says so?!) No where else would that be accepted as proof of validity!
This is a typical example of a theist demonizing a challenger of his or her spoon-fed beliefs.The overall message of Zeitgest is one of unity and harmony.Theists simply do not realize that their fellow atheists and agnostics want nothing more and nothing less than they themselves want: love, truth, and justice.There is no satanic agenda behind their actions.
We're waiting for you to discard all of the fear you blindly accept and allow humanity to progress into something we can all be proud of.
I find it hard to believe you have looked into any of this. It sounds like your just assuming your viewpoint is right.
I myself will not have blind faith and blind allegiance, I follow Jesus who died for our sins and then resurrected, and eleven disciples who were with Jesus and saw this died for that belief (and many others). What's more amazing is if we have an open heart and seek God he will meet us.
Thanks for the comment though, seek and you will find, God bless.
Yes, but when the new era dawns, the super technological age of aquarius,christ conscioussness returns and there will be the establishment of the truth. Those who pull the strings will have power removed from them. The body serves only as a vehicle for conscioussness and man is already in the process of creating in his own image. ROBOTS! Once technology has advanced enough to create likes of "sonny" from "I robot" the christ conscioussness shall inhabit that vehicle,the 2nd coming born of man
There are sources that prove that Zeitgeist is right Wikipedia in several languages, and other that don't. the fact is that most religions are myths, stories, and who is called an authority changes the story each time. The bottom line of Zeitgeist is that religion is a myth, no matter how many stories you can bring up that are similar. the most compelling is the death of the sun, related to life and death, light and darkness. when you die, there is nothing, you fools! and who gives a damn.
that's what's so amazing about Jesus. Just think about that all of us are imperfect and we do some dumb things. THen this guy comes who lives a perfect life and He gives it up for us, so that we having faith accept the work he has doen for us. He takes the punishment for us. It's so amazing, Jesus died for us.
so many of us are frustrated with religion and all the hurt and destruction that fundamentalist religion ideologies can bring. BUT it's worth noting that Jesus never used the word "religion" and He always challenged the "religious" people of his day. also, here's James' definition of what religion should be,"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress..." How could anyone hate "religion" like that?
No one practices that religon. They use it to control people. People who tell me what God thinks and wants are liars. Instead of helping orphans and widows, they build churches and pay for ads.
i want to challenge your generalizations...don't you see that when you make statements like that you're acting just like those fundamentalist christians who are so judgemental of people outside of their churches? instead of saying "no one" why can't you say that yes, there are those out there not practicing the "religion" that we were originally called to but there ARE people who do and these are the people who can truly call themselves Christians or Christ-followers. peace!
i want to challenge your generalizations...don't you see that when you make statements like that you're acting just like those fundamentalist christians who are so judgemental of people outside of their churches? instead of saying "no one" why can't you say that yes, there are those out there not practicing the "religion" that we were originally called to but there ARE people who do and these are the people who can truly call themselves Christians or Christ-followers. peace!
even if this movie is wrong, it is clear that christianity and the bible is full of lies and deceit...and it does not take a movie like this to prove that, all it takes is common sense...you hardcore christians are so blind it makes me sick
As Bruxy was saying we shouldn't just listen to people who make bold statements, we need to look into it.
You have not supported your statements at all. I can say I have looked into Christianity, and follow it because Jesus has met me where I am personally, and I have also seen the extremely high historicity of the new testament, and many other things. Non biblical writers have written about many of the people in the new testament.
wow so you would find yourself at the other end of the spectrum of fundamentalism. don't you see you're being as mean and illogical as the fundamentalist christian? what have you studied to come to your conclusion, "it is clear that christianity and the bible is full of lies and deceit" - let me guess you watched the "da vinci code"? if you're going to engage in the debate try being a little more Christ-like or if you like, "Ghandi-like". Peace Bro.
what have i studied? haha...how about THE BIBLE?? Full of contradictions...it says one thing, then another in a different place, its a joke....I do believe Jesus was a good guy tho so ur right i coulda been more "Jesus" Like. The Bible has God commanding rape, pillage, and killing..dont believe me? I'll give u the exact passage. How can you believe in a book filled with so much lies and deceit? God is NOT all loving, all caring, etc, and I can show u stories from ur own "holy text"to prove it
you do understand there are different literary genre's presented in the bible? do you understand that much of the old testament is the story of God wanting to partner with the Israelites to be an example of His love for the world and they just keep messing up? so if you have all these contradictions and commands to pillage and rape present them and let's look at the context in which they were written and originally intended..remember that ANY historical document has errors.
The scriptures of truth is our rule and guide for our the saint of God apart from the issue of this presentation can anyone see something right in front of your face? It is a shame for a man to have long hair, hello!! What is he and everyone who is frightened to talk to the man? Such spiritual childishness. When are going to take the bible seriously? When? spiritual childishness. Read 1 Corinthians 11:14 small issue you say? The entire church practise is antibiblical read 1Cor.14:26-36
You do know Mr. Massey studied Egyptology for 30 years... heck at least one of his egyptologist colleagues was christian. Though not a life time I'm sure that was plenty enough for him to decipher the texts as best he could. And since no one can really be 100% sure that their translation is right then proof that christianity copied the egyptian religion may be impossible. But you cannot deny that it's possible that some of Christs story is lifted from others... can you?
I don't think any of it is, at least on purpose. Too many people forget all the books in the New Testament are seperate documents written by seperate people all talking about Jesus, and they are valid historical documents. Also there are documents outside the New Testament that talk about Jesus, Pontius Pilate, and other people described in the New Testament.
To put what I believe into simple terms: I believe that all the facts represented in Zeitgeist the Movie are truthful and are on the right track, BUT they are VERY stretched. Probably because if they sat down and held our hands and guided us step by step, the movie would last 3 or 4 hours long... let's be realistic here: how many people would actaully watch a "documentary" type video that is 4 hours long? They are trying to get this message out to as many people as possible ASAP. Its about GOVT.
your not answering the question spattay, Does OTHER (notice how i emphasise other) aspects of the Attis myth PRE-DATE christianity bar the ressurection yes or no ? just a yes or no answer
Otherwise I believe the general myth does pre-date Christianity, but I have found no parallels except for the zeitgiest movie renaming terms to sound like Jesus. Example, no scholarly article says, crucified, born of a virgin, born on dec 25th, dead for 3 days, or even resurrected. Not even one of the claims in zetigeist can be found in a standard research article.
A very valid point you can't judge the whole movie based on one point being wrong. If you look into zeitgiest one of the main problems is they use terminology ascribed for Jesus and realllllly stretch it so it can be used for the mytholigical "gods". Terms like birth, miracles, resurrection, truth, light. And I'd be open to looking at the rest of the claims for Attis, maybe i'll take a look at ol wikipedia :).
Spattay you state "the most important part of Jesus ministry was the death and resurrection" if this is the case then fine, however do you not find it a little strange that for example the Attis myth has all the other aspects EG (Birth,miracles,"the truth", "the light" etc)and for example all the other personified prophets share at least handful of identical information that PRE-DATES the birth of jesus christ ? Bruxy has picked out one POSSIBLE flaw in the ressurection , that bearly ....
I know this doens't count as very well investigated research, but the wikipedia article has no mention of the words, "truth", or "light", or "miracle".
Yea no problem I will continue to respond as time allows. Thanks for your comments yourself, it's good to have an open dialogue while searching for truth, God bless =).
07:02 - 07:07 "but we find that (ressurection)inserted into writings that post date christianity" have you ever considered the fact that early PRE- christian recordings of Attis' ressurection may have been lost and a few centuries later POST- christianity found again ... also there is sevral other elements of the Attis myth the PRE-date christaianty which statiscally make the validity of yor statement wrong ... wether or not the ressurection scriptures were wrriten before or after .....
the fact the ressurection is a transmutation into an evergreen tree completely invalidates it in my mind and shows how the makers of zeitgeist are very deceptive in what they present.
I like your point though and its valid otherwise, there could indeed be pre-Christian recordings that existed that we don't have. If they're ever found I'd be interested to see. But even an evergreen tree transmuatation before Jesus will not convince me very well ;).
06:55 -06:59 " the attis myth does predate chritianity but it doesnt include a death and resurrection" ok one POSSIBLE FLAW .... excuse me but have you just completely misdirected the entire myth of Attis ? Attis has all the other elements of Jesus Christ the DOB ETC
The most important part of Jesus ministry was the death and resurrection. That is the "good news" (what gospel means). The good news that God loves us so much he would die for us. Because God won't let sin go for free. A Good judge doesn't let a murderer go off without Justification/Justice. Pinning all sin onto Jesus, and then having faith in him allows us to accept the work he did. (I believe Bruxy goes over all the main points, as generalized as they are)
to get in thier minds what seems an easy way into "heaven" if such a place exists, indeed the only people who notice the injustice of this tend to be athiests such as myself. by contrast it is funny to notice how the majority of fundamental - church going christians tend to add the non - church going christians to thier faith which inturn to the average bystander makes christianity seem more popular
an interesting point. It is sad when following Jesus becomes something of an assumption in a nation or group. What we really need is there to be open searching encouraged, for everyone to look at the facts and evidence themselves. To let go of biases indeed.
2:12 - "thier betting on the fact that most of us are lazy when it comes to research" the majority of non fundamentalist christians and all other followers of religion have never even read one verse of the bible , from your christian standpoint that has such a high level of hypocritical nature that im in fits of laughter. in fact most christians i know dont even research anything to do with christianity indeed they label themselves with the "christian" persona ...
If this is the case then these people aren't really Christians and you have to be careful not to judge that they are. Jesus says in one part of the Bible, "Some will call me Lord, Lord on the judgement day, and I will reply, get away from me, I never knew you" (that's a rough paraphrase from memory).
Once again you try to distract from the point, rather then explain why it isn't a good point. Thanks for the dialogue none the less :).
1:46 - 1:49 "the real schoars underneath know all this but dont want to tell you" the entire film is based upon a years worth of research ... it has nothing to do with 100 year old scholars reading hieroglyphics all hieroglyphics have order and sense to them what your stateing really holds no validity
00:19 - 00:25 "the system has been supressing, the institution the man is keeping you down by not allowing you to see this information" - From you prior comment and your three video clip inserts/ responses it seem to me that your approach is truley confined within the realms of relligion which as other have pointed out is not the main focus of the film ... also from this statement it sounds again as if you dont know what your talking about in regards to politics ... it seems to me as if the...
Yes, I'm only interested in the part of this film relating to Jesus. Jesus is the Lord/Saviour of my life and he is God, so what could be more important for me? I don't recall mentioning politics but ok there :).
00:13 - 00:16 "the presentation of confidence is so backed up it has the air of "i can't believe you didnt know this"" - christianity has for centuries made people terrified of religion and christianity as they spouted with horrific tendancy the barbaric nature of the old testament so this statement especially from a christian such as yourself is absurd and so hypocritical it leaves me with a mentality of distaste as to what your saying
The Christian church has indeed made mistakes, and the only way to judge Christianity is to look at the source: Jesus Christ (a sinless man who died for sinners). Your argument does not invalidate the point made here, it merely trys to distract by looking at an unrelated point.
spattay, i think your logical mentality is highly falwed and your faith in christiany like all other christians and religions is just not true i will now piece by piece disect and note each reason for this with referance to what you state in these clips,
If you totally believe in your cause(cult), then let it be. Why stand up on stage, with a hint of desperation in your voice, trying to convince your followers that zeitgeist is wrong.
The tides are turning. Science has taken over and your "cash cow" will come to an end.
That's a rather ridiculous comment. You have supported none of your statements. If you look into things I believe you will find that God does exist. There are a few arguments that William Lane Craig, a Christian Philospher points out. One is that anything that has a start has a cause, the Universe started, therefore the Universe had a cause. Unless you believe nothing created the Universe then God did.
I think my last post did answer your questions. To spell it out, I would put all my children in heaven to begin with, without this "middle step" of earth.
Perhaps you didn't get my sarcasm in the original post - I don't really believe god screwed up, as I don't believe he exists. This is partly because of my argument, that if he was all powerful and all good, he wouldn't have created this world.
originally there was paradise, and God gave mankind free choice by putting one rule in the garden. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and from there sin started and the world becomes messed up from our turning away from God.
But will there be free choice in heaven? Then it would get just as screwed up as earth. Or perhaps we will become robots when we get to heaven. Whichever, if the christian god existed, he would have done better to just skip that middle part, and start right out with heaven.
So god created the world, and us all, just to see who would have faith in a wildly improbable story, and reward that? That's just sick - that's the last thing I would do as god, or reward. That's probably a terrible insult to the real god if there was any. It sounds like a made up notion to keep people afraid to think for themselves.
God wants to be in a relationship with you. There's nothing improbable about it. If you're ignoring God and not trying to find him ... you won't. God wants to see faith. He wants to see people searching for him. One of the girls I know at University was seeking God and didn't know him, but she prayed to find him, and she felt called to turn on the TV, when she did the face of Jesus was there, in whatever show was on. God meets us where we are, (read Jeremiah 29:11-13 for more)
God is imaginary. Normally if you have a relationship with an imaginary person you're very likely to be locked up for your own safety and the safety of everybody around you. Why doesn't this happen??? Instead we are surrounded by psychopaths who want us to worship their imaginary being or die! I'd say God help us but then I'd have to lock myself up!
Fair enough.. I like to say what I am thinking (being kind about it though) so sarcasm isn't easily detected as I hope to understand as well as be understood. If there is no god (for the sake of argument let's say there isn't) Can you explain why this world is so messed up if there isn't a god to blame it on? How can we blame our problem on god if there isn't one?
I don't blame god, or anything, I don't know if you still got all the sarcasm. Just because something happens that you don't like, doesn't mean somebody is to blame. "Shit happens", as the famous philosopher once said. Atoms are constantly smashing into each other all over the place, I wouldn't blame one of those atoms over the other.
"How about, I'd just make everybody happy? That shouldn't be a tough assignment at all, if god lived up to his billing." "I don't blame god, or anything..."
In the sea of sarcasm is it safe to assume there is a bit of finger pointing? Once again, I am going to agree with you. It really isn't God you have a problem with, it's all the people who claim God is real and do things that make this world an unhappy place to live?
It doesn't mean the research is poorly done, it means a person who supports a movie that has questionable research in itself says the research against it is poorly done.
I automatically become suspicious when he states that anyone who uses an Encyclopedia is doing poor research.
I don't see why people who research from encycolpedias should be rejected. I know ones like the oxford encyclopedia have really good scholarly qualifications. And wikipedia is slowly getting up there.
This guy is very convinced that Christianity is unique and that every other religion copied his but he's not very convincing. Never really proves his point, just looks at his followers like, "We all know Jesus is god, right?"
Good apologist for Christianity but not a very good debater.
Ok, Jesus was the long awaited Messiah. He did miracles, rose people from the dead, healed people, and forgave people of their sins. He made huge claims, he said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me". Jesus is God in the flesh, which is very special.
Even looking at prophecies he fulfilled, 800 years before Jesus was born in Bethlehem from a virgin the Bible already declared it. This all points to a signifigance we need to look into.
All twelve disciples of Jesus died (one was tortured and lived), and not one went back on their faith of what they actually saw.
Archaelogical evidence is abounding, for example a fountain where Jesus healed a man has recently been excavated that matches the description in the book of John perfectly.
There is tons of evidence and proof out there, I applaud your seeking of it, we don't want blind faith :). Jesus says to seek!
Abounding? So where is it? Look, I am a fundamentalist preachers son, you can't fool me with any of the garbage your pastor taught you. I've heard it all before. Christianity is a fraud...
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Admit that the state of the world today is not how it should be and christianity had it´s significant part in it. Surely the world has not become any better since the beginning of the common era and that alone prooves and is evidence of the difference between good and bad. By this proof we should know what is bad and try to find out what is good. Could that be the purpose of life? Hope you accept my appologies and feel free to remove what ever you like.
I agree the state of the world today could be better, and certainly people professing themselves to be Christians have caused lots of problems, I'm sure we all know about the crusades.
Certainly we need to look for good. Jesus himself gave two commands that summarized them all. 1. Love God 2. Love your neighbour as yourself. If everyone did this I have no doubts the world would look much different then it does today.
Christianity, with all its confusions, being the lower level of the pyramid of socalled freemasonry, is a tool to achieve the goals of these leaders. All this is the very essence of idol-worshipping and thereby the successor of pagan religion from old. So i suggest to run your surveys again and check out the matter more criticaly.
I entirely reject zeitgeists claims about Christianity.
What too many people miss is the fact that Jesus was a real person,
There were twelve disciples of Jesus, 11/12 of them died for their faith and never went back on it. This is signifigant because they all saw Jesus, and they would rather die then say what they saw wasn't true. The 12th person was tortured and left on an island.
This is from history books, this is not even in the Bible.
I posted a response, not sure why it didn't work.
Anyway here's a summary of what I wanted to say.
Look up each of the 12 disciples on wikipedia, that's the quickest thing you can do. Each of their pages should have details on the deaths and the sources for that.
No reason even to mention that history books are just as fraud as the people who wrote them. (Quote Winston Chuchill: "HISTORY IS GOING TO BE KIND TO ME BECAUSE I AM GOING TO WRITE IT")
Men´s nature is evil and selfish from birth and only by the right and true education can he improve and mend his ways. If he doesn´t, he will keep on focusing on his limited material world, while every now and than buying off his guilty concience by donating an amount of charity to some fraud organization, and these leaders can just continue their works.
people could focus more on getting a job for example, rather than hoping so much just go and keep trying, label me as the devil's advocate but its just how the world really is
Surly some details in the movie have minor errors but that gives no reason to reject it completely. I totaly agree that people should research the sources and i believe the movie very much inspires to do so. If you look for instance to Africa, how can a continent, so rich of recources be hungry and poor, while all their food lies in our stores. Where lies the responsibility for that. Isn´t it so that this is done by mal education, lies and supression by the richest few?
I just got angry the other day, so my sincere apology for being personal. I do believe that few people are trying to rule the world at any cost based on very old tradition. These people care about nothing but them selves and their family interests and are taking precautions so that the average men can´t revolt, by restricting his freedom bit by bit. Zeitgeist gives a close and interesting impression on the subject.
Eyeofhorus
Great to see you doing some looking. I think your name may give away your bias...
Bruxy Is saying that these theories that are being brought up now can be traced back to 100 years ago not that there aren't rooted in earlier writings. Also, the quote you had about the three days and nights you said was found in the first century which is what Bruxy says. It post-dates the events of Christ. just wanted to point out your own point.
beeeri 4 months ago
Looser fat cat.....try to loose some weight first
Homocystine 4 months ago
Mr bruxy you are a fucking idiot. Religion is plainly bullshit, there were life before jesus and christianity and it was not what they are telling us today so you go do your research! jackass....
touchdown261 7 months ago
@touchdown261
touchdown261 7 months ago
See below for some citations which elucidate the idea that Pastor Bruxy Cavey is talking nonsense. At about 2:10 he claims that the makers of Zeitgeist "are betting on the fact that most of us are lazy when it comes to research." Well, I have undertaken extensive research and there is a wealth of credible scholarly and classical opinion to support many of the claims that the movie makes. See below for examples of how Pastor Cavey's opinions are refuted by evidence from "books" he wants u 2 read!
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
There is also an established body of scholarly opinion which espouses the notion that the "Nativity Scene" of Jesus' birth, as described in the Gospel according to Luke, has its roots in much older, established Ancient Egyptian mythology. This is supported by reference to actual temple reliefs, historical artifacts which pre-date the mythology of Christianity by some 1,500 years. See the scholarly work of Egyptologists Dr. Samuel Clarke or Professor Barry J Kemp at Cambridge University!
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
In the temple of Amun at the site of Luxor in Egypt appears a series of scenes depicting the divine birth of the pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty (c. 1570-1293 BC), Amenhotep/Amenhotpe or Amenophis III, who reigned during the 14th century BCE (c. 1390-c. 1352 BC). The Luxor "Nativity imagery" represents a significant artifact demonstrating important pre-Christian religious motifs evidently - later - incorporated into Christianity.
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
The three-day period and resurrection of Osiris / Horus is also recorded by first century historian Plutarch (39, 366D-E) as occurring on the 17th, 18th and 19th of the month Athyr (Hathor). (Source: Plutarch, "Isis and Osiris", translated by Frank Cole Babbitt)
So, again, while Bruxy would have you believe that the Zeigeist movie is essentially based on the work of 2 scholars who lived one hundred years ago, he is wrong and is generalising, hoping you are "too busy" to undertake research!
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
Rev. Dr. Alfred Bertholet, a theologian and professor at the University of Göttingen, In an article entitled 'The Pre-Christian Belief in the Resurrection of the Body', published in The American Journal of Theology by the University of Chicago Press, Dr. Bertholet remarks: "According to the faith of later times, Osiris was three days and three nights in the waters before he was restored to life again." Restored to life after death = resurrection in this christian theologian's scholarly opinion!
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
At 0:35 - 0:45 the speaker states: "Most of these theories can be traced back to the late 1800s - early 1900s ..." What about Plutarch, the first century AD historian who described Horus as being "Born about the Winter Solstice" - the Winter Solstice being Dec 21st to 24th; or Macrobius, who wrote about an Ancient Egyptian festival where the sun was venerated as "an infant"; or the temple relief dated 1350 BC that suggests Amenhotep III's birth involved an Anunciation and Immaculate Conception??
EyeofHorus33 7 months ago
Cool Pastor! After watching Zeitgeist, I had some serious doubts and faith issues.........I think something that that most people (myself included) don't truly understand is that Evil presents itself as a truthful, white rose.........there is none more deceptive than Satan, and the Zeitgeist movie is an excellent example of that; it is full of Blatant Lies and Peter Joseph (the narrorator) acts as if he just "Cares" about people knowing the truth.......Peter Joseph is a Snake!
ChiefClickClack 11 months ago
@ChiefClickClack You mean, you started to ask questions that made you uncomfortable about your life choices, then, fearful that you might have to start thinking for yourself, ran back to the arms of big daddy religion where it feels nice and comfortable.
nwgs4nzfx2 6 months ago
@nwgs4nzfx2 No, I had questions, and I sought-out answers.......and I found one big answer: that the Zeitgeist documentary on religion is loaded with blatant lies.......trust me, I definitely think for myself.......I spend 100's and 1000's of hours seeking out the Truth.......I'm in the same boat as you with the same questions as you, and I'll be honest that I don't Know anything for sure, but I do Believe in certain things (just like you do), so why can't you respect that?
ChiefClickClack 6 months ago
@ChiefClickClack Fair enough. I'm not a huge fan of Mr Joseph.
nwgs4nzfx2 5 months ago
how can anyone, whose whole belief system, and life, is NOT based on facts, but blind "faith", argue about facts? how, in this day and age, do people still refute science in favour of having demons and gods explain everything in the universe? You're missing the point of the movie and trying to debunk it with pure semantics. so, I ask you. is the monetary system, the political system, religion, monarchies and the employee/employer/consumer roundabout really advancing mankind?
gusmif 1 year ago
@gusmif This is a very strange response. Science is not the only method of knowledge. Science cannot even prove the law of non-contradiction, which is the foundation it's based on. And Christianity is based on historical realities. Hundreds of people witnessed Jesus resurrected, and non-Christians even wrote about Him.
The real problem is people don't want to look into it themselves, because they've figured out their conclusions before they start looking, and that close mindedness is the danger
Spattay 1 year ago
@Spattay people worship the gods of their father and religions are generally localised, which is why you aren't a Sikh. left to your own devices, you wouldn't believe in god because there would be no reason to because it's irrelevant. you're conclusions are based on a freeze-dried, pre-packaged ideology that you've been indoctrinated with. we are all atheists. I just don't believe in one more god than you
gusmif 1 year ago
@gusmif My religion is hardly localized, I'm a Canadian following Jesus who was from the middle east. That's also a logical fallacy that you have used called the "Genetic Fallacy".
More importantly: God has put His law in our hearts. When you hear about the Holocaust you know it's wrong. Not just culturally, but wrong. Same with murder and rape.
You say I'm indoctrinated? I actually subscribe to Atheist blogs, and other religions sources to see what others say. Christ has changed me though :)
Spattay 1 year ago
@Spattay I'm aware of the genetic fallacy, and the point I was making is that we are ALL conditioned by our environment. If you were raised where no knowledge of christianity existed, your belief structure, and conclusions, would be different, even though you felt the same. And are you saying that, without god's law in our hearts, atheists wouldn't think murder and rape were wrong? Our brains are chemically hard wired to release MORE serotonin when give rather than when we receive.
gusmif 1 year ago
@Spattay you are trying to prove a god exists by believing in one first. Your reference point is the bible, which, according to christianity, is the writings of god. but ALL religions say that. There's what, around 34,000 versions of christianity? And how many versions of Islam, Judaism and Buddhism? Imagine if there were that many versions of what a centimetre was. Or what the sun was. Or what gravity was. Madness. Would you prefer someone give you an answer or show you how to find one?
gusmif 1 year ago
@Spattay and christ didn't change you. YOU changed you. You attached the metaphor. People beleive in a god because they're good people, not the other way around. Unfortunately, it's also a framework for segregation and unwitting judgement. "If they don't believe the same things I do, then how can I be sure of WHAT they believe?". LIfe doesn't discriminate. There is no such thing as a christian homo sapiens. Homo sapiens simply is. That is, we all shit, fuck, breathe and eat, the same way
gusmif 1 year ago
@Spattay dude, I've waffled on a bit. just wanna let you know my friends are a mix of christians (catholics, protestants and born-again-hand clapper-types), atheists, othodox Russian, Greek and Polish, Kooris (Aussie Aboriginals), Pagans, Wiccans, Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and a few Buddhists. They've all had this same discussion with me. I just can't subscribe to anything that segregates us all and serves to disenfranchise us from the natural world in which we belong
gusmif 1 year ago
@gusmif So.. because I believe in God, I am not allowed to make arguments which are based on "facts" or "evidence. Ok bud...
Vball2718 11 months ago
@Vball2718 there are no facts or evidence on god so, no, you can't
gusmif 11 months ago
can't tell if you're being serious... but ok.
Vball2718 11 months ago
This men is pupet for satanhe makes his point like a beelzebub flowler . is for the ilumenaty. satan will not have footlholds in my life. like this guy. he is evil nd ofthe devilhel ikes to waylay god's children. he says nohcurch but he has church. join the FLDS and we show you allthe truth in the world. he like gay buttsex and fecal matter, look ant interviews... check it out on pornsites
sowheresthefire 1 year ago
@sowheresthefire Though your grammar and spelling have many errors, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. I personally in my own porn watching have come across many videos of bruxy performing many unspeakable acts.
theboxisgone2 1 year ago
lol "Passing it on without doing any research". Oh, that sounds a whole lot like religion. Believing in 100 year old fiction? Oh, talk about believing in 2,000+ year old fiction.
RosieKR 1 year ago
@LazyOtaku You were presented with facts,and still resort to your own safe hatreed of Christianity....
Good job dude....
Oh btw,that was sarcasm =P
Wrecklesciet 1 year ago
Comment removed
jockdoubleday 2 years ago
Umm firstly i hadn't looked to see is anyone else noticed this but....They are calling Ra the sun god, Horus the sky god so if they cant get normal Egyptian lore correct how do they get the rest correct!
Talvis155 2 years ago
to Talvis155: You've got your gods backwards, bro! lol . . .
jockdoubleday 2 years ago
wait so didn't the Egyptians have the same type of story?
everygreatpowerfalls 2 years ago
if you have watched this video you will know that is not true. All the similarities are after those words "broadly speaking" and they are sure broad!
Spattay 2 years ago
i cant see your message on this window, but I got it via email. What I'm saying is Christianity is completely different from the egyptian religion. Christianity is not based on some random God who may be in the sky. Christianity is based on a real person who came to Earth, and died for our sins on a cross and resurrected. Over 500 people witnessed him resurrected. And secular historians verify He was very much a real person. Christianity is not abstract, it's based on a real guy.
Spattay 2 years ago
lol, guys! this is ridiculous! are you paying attention to what youre typing? if none of the facts in the movie are there, and thats why it says "broadly speaking", then how in the world is bruxy manipulating facts? he would simply be showing WHY its "broadly speaking" and how it can be misleading
singerhopeful311 2 years ago 6
if everyone did their own research, people would actually know what is true and what isnt.
next time you watch a movie/film, dont jump to conclusions too quickly. its so easy to make a movie and present points (true or false). its really the watcher to make their own realistic judgment.
ilghwsy 2 years ago
the movie expresses it's own opinions, bruxy presents his. it's really up to the viewer to decide what he/she wants to believe. use your common sense and do your own research.
ilghwsy 2 years ago
Yea people should definately research this themselves. Once people do they will realize that none of zeitgeists facts are there at all. That's why the movie says "broadly speaking" , it's unfortunately an excuse to manipulate facts to an extreme degree.
Spattay 2 years ago
spattay, let them figure out if the "facts" the film presents are true or not. it's their fault for being easily persuaded to accept false points. it's time for people to own up to their own mistakes for not doing their own research. people these days are so easily persuaded to believe what people/media/movies say. it's a real shame.
ilghwsy 2 years ago
now wayzey, where in the world did you get that? it is not true that the first written record of the Bible took place in 133 a.d. as a matter of fact, the contrary is true. stone tablets have been found in egypt and sumeria dating back to several thousand years b.c. this is simply from the old testament,
singerhopeful311 3 years ago
and all of it is on stone tablets because o lack of paper, if thats what you mean. if it is, then let me bring you to the first century, where everything in Jesus's apostles letters where written on paper. these letters, especially those of the apostle Paul, have been found scattered all across the roman empire and were dated to within 40 years after Jesus death.
singerhopeful311 3 years ago
all these letters were copied so that they could be saved, and there are no more than 60,000 copies of different pieces of the the New Testament in several different languages, yet still correlating with each other so tightly and in a way that they are so perfectly worded together that it proves their creditability. only if these ppl believed entirely what they had read would they not distort it in any way, and thats what we find.
singerhopeful311 3 years ago
now wait a minute, how are any of you any better than bruxy? how is bruxy any better than you? the simple answer is, "in no way." staplesmcjebus, you are doing no better than bruxy. IF he truly is doing nothing but spread lies and call names, then you should not stoop to his level in telling he has proved nothing. it is obvious, right? IF hes picking and choosing, its obvious, and doesnt need an anouncement.
singerhopeful311 3 years ago
now, lets suppose hes not. you say the egyptian dieties show up far before Christianity, which is true. but, they are in no way predating to Judaism, whose prophets foretold the coming of the Messiah centuries before. now, if Jesus matches up with every single one of these prophesies, which he does, then it can not be said that
he is false, or nonexistant.
now, weve concluded that Christianity is postdated to egyptian diety,but the basis of it predates the egyptian dieties.what does that say?
singerhopeful311 3 years ago
zeitgiest didn't spread lies, this preacher is picking and choosing certain info that favors his argument and ignoring the fact that egyptian dieties and otherwise still have the majority of their facts pre date christianity.... and lets all marvel at his christian immaturity by name calling and belittling zeitgiest to other myths... by the time the audience is done laughing at his attempt at a joke they have already forgotten bruxy proved absolutely nothing other than he is also media literate
staplesmcjebus 3 years ago
give one example of the claims you make, that'd be cool.
You don't have to believe Bruxy, just look into the scholarship for yourself =).
Zeitgeist is just a really bad unscholarly excuse to not look into the person of Jesus. For he was a real person, and died and rose again for our sins. And 11 disciples were willing to die for the belief they saw him resurrected...
Spattay 3 years ago
so as a christian you are totally "cool" with him not loving his neighbor, doing unto others as he would want done to him, exc
oh right, you just chose to ignore that rule but side with this mindless argument. face it, people are free to think and believe. i'm not saying you don't have a right to believe, but stop acting like your religion is the "end-all-be-all" path of living and trying to deny others that right.
staplesmcjebus 3 years ago
This guy has no argument whatsoever. He just called them lairs and said they are stupid. Nice try Christians. Your story book is comforting, I know, but it just doesn't make any sense nowadays.
lukekyser 3 years ago
Sounds like you didn't watch all three parts. The great thing is you don't have to believe him , consult any historical sources, any encyclopedia. The fact is you won't find any of zeitgeists "facts" in them.
Spattay 3 years ago
You should know the wikipedia in not an encyclopedia. The "pedia" means nothings.
zingershminger 3 years ago
Comment removed
ilghwsy 2 years ago
Weak. Lot of fallacy and refutation without reason in my opinion. zeitgeist brings it nice and common sensey!
DarylRummens 3 years ago
Zeitgeist distorts facts and doesn't present things honestly. But I'm sure you know that by now.
Spattay 3 years ago
mesia2 you are soooooooo corrrect this guy is a fool for one its not all bout god they begin with god and lead into the moving trying to get at point our world is controlled by money. this guy is a dumby head half a brain alll these ppl complaining bout zeitgeist are upset bout god they are not just talkin bout god. maybe they should watch the whole vid.
kmakattack04 3 years ago
It's not Christianity's fault that some of the people commenting here aren't able to make any kind of personal connection with God. They're probably really good at lots of other things - like ranting and arguing for example. :)
friendscanada 3 years ago 5
youre right indeed. he is a scared man with a small mind.
sneezuschrist 3 years ago 2
how come he does a shitty job refuting this. this fat man has disproved nothing.
sneezuschrist 3 years ago
I have a hard time you can believe anything zeitgeist says if you've looked into any of it at all. Seek and you will find, God bless.
Spattay 3 years ago
'I have a hard time you can believe' dosen't make gramatical sense. Furthermore, I cant see how you believe in the fairy tale of christianity.
A corrupt one at that.
sneezuschrist 3 years ago
Jesus Christ was a real person. Even non biblical accounts verify that. I encourage you to look into this. It's worth it to seek the truth. It's not worth it to be close minded about this, the stakes are too high.
God bless, praying for you :).
Spattay 3 years ago
Everywhere I go, someone new is getting blamed. Blame is a completely natural concept when there is no such thing as right and wrong. Why is there so much hate between different sects that all want to know the Truth? Deep down, thats all we want to know. Doesn't matter if you're religious or not, we all enjoy the mystery of life to some degree... so why are we wasting time blaming each Other when it is Our fault?
DannyFuckinTanner 3 years ago
hi,some of you knows if esist a different language of this video ? example in italian or france ? thanks
ciao
ale
eccolo75 3 years ago
It reminds me of the old Sesame Street moment, where Ernie takes the last bit of ice cream, Bert is mad (or sad) that Ernie did this, so Ernie says "Don't worry! I'll make some more". A scoop of mashed potatoes (cuz it's white like ice cream), some ice cubes (so it's cold), and gravy (cuz it's brown like chocolate sauce). "They're the SAME! Aren't you happy now, Bert?!?"
Oddly, Bert's not.
karnox999 3 years ago
Jesus didn't come to make a new religion but to point us to God. And the Bible is written to help us in this journey. Anyone worshiping a book should be questioned, but as a Christian it's important we follow what the Bible says because it has the inspired words of God in it, God speaking through people.
Spattay 3 years ago
If you are religious you can not use rational reasoning to argue your beliefs as the very beliefs you hold use a fundelmentally corrupt use of reasoning (eg.Circular reasoning, the bible is true because the bible says so?!) No where else would that be accepted as proof of validity!
Weewawoowah 3 years ago
This is a typical example of a theist demonizing a challenger of his or her spoon-fed beliefs.The overall message of Zeitgest is one of unity and harmony.Theists simply do not realize that their fellow atheists and agnostics want nothing more and nothing less than they themselves want: love, truth, and justice.There is no satanic agenda behind their actions.
We're waiting for you to discard all of the fear you blindly accept and allow humanity to progress into something we can all be proud of.
killak94 3 years ago 2
I find it hard to believe you have looked into any of this. It sounds like your just assuming your viewpoint is right.
I myself will not have blind faith and blind allegiance, I follow Jesus who died for our sins and then resurrected, and eleven disciples who were with Jesus and saw this died for that belief (and many others). What's more amazing is if we have an open heart and seek God he will meet us.
Thanks for the comment though, seek and you will find, God bless.
Spattay 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yes, but when the new era dawns, the super technological age of aquarius,christ conscioussness returns and there will be the establishment of the truth. Those who pull the strings will have power removed from them. The body serves only as a vehicle for conscioussness and man is already in the process of creating in his own image. ROBOTS! Once technology has advanced enough to create likes of "sonny" from "I robot" the christ conscioussness shall inhabit that vehicle,the 2nd coming born of man
11thhourreprieve 3 years ago
There are sources that prove that Zeitgeist is right Wikipedia in several languages, and other that don't. the fact is that most religions are myths, stories, and who is called an authority changes the story each time. The bottom line of Zeitgeist is that religion is a myth, no matter how many stories you can bring up that are similar. the most compelling is the death of the sun, related to life and death, light and darkness. when you die, there is nothing, you fools! and who gives a damn.
sfdrey 3 years ago
IT MAY BE MADE UP OR NOT... the fucking Point is.... THE WORLD IS FUCKED!
ineyeseek 3 years ago
that's what's so amazing about Jesus. Just think about that all of us are imperfect and we do some dumb things. THen this guy comes who lives a perfect life and He gives it up for us, so that we having faith accept the work he has doen for us. He takes the punishment for us. It's so amazing, Jesus died for us.
Spattay 3 years ago
Try researching for yourself. That's exactly what Bruxy says, and exactly what Bruxy has done :).
Spattay 3 years ago
I'm not a christian, I hate religon. But I must say that Zeitgeist part 1 is full of shit.
Dicktaa 3 years ago
so many of us are frustrated with religion and all the hurt and destruction that fundamentalist religion ideologies can bring. BUT it's worth noting that Jesus never used the word "religion" and He always challenged the "religious" people of his day. also, here's James' definition of what religion should be,"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress..." How could anyone hate "religion" like that?
revolutionconway 3 years ago
sorry the quote is from the BIble in the book of James (Jesus' brother). sorry i just assumed you should know who James is! peace.
revolutionconway 3 years ago
No one practices that religon. They use it to control people. People who tell me what God thinks and wants are liars. Instead of helping orphans and widows, they build churches and pay for ads.
Dicktaa 3 years ago
i want to challenge your generalizations...don't you see that when you make statements like that you're acting just like those fundamentalist christians who are so judgemental of people outside of their churches? instead of saying "no one" why can't you say that yes, there are those out there not practicing the "religion" that we were originally called to but there ARE people who do and these are the people who can truly call themselves Christians or Christ-followers. peace!
revolutionconway 3 years ago
i want to challenge your generalizations...don't you see that when you make statements like that you're acting just like those fundamentalist christians who are so judgemental of people outside of their churches? instead of saying "no one" why can't you say that yes, there are those out there not practicing the "religion" that we were originally called to but there ARE people who do and these are the people who can truly call themselves Christians or Christ-followers. peace!
revolutionconway 3 years ago
amen to that
djcloudstrife 3 years ago
even if this movie is wrong, it is clear that christianity and the bible is full of lies and deceit...and it does not take a movie like this to prove that, all it takes is common sense...you hardcore christians are so blind it makes me sick
evolutionbeats 4 years ago
As Bruxy was saying we shouldn't just listen to people who make bold statements, we need to look into it.
You have not supported your statements at all. I can say I have looked into Christianity, and follow it because Jesus has met me where I am personally, and I have also seen the extremely high historicity of the new testament, and many other things. Non biblical writers have written about many of the people in the new testament.
Spattay 4 years ago
wow so you would find yourself at the other end of the spectrum of fundamentalism. don't you see you're being as mean and illogical as the fundamentalist christian? what have you studied to come to your conclusion, "it is clear that christianity and the bible is full of lies and deceit" - let me guess you watched the "da vinci code"? if you're going to engage in the debate try being a little more Christ-like or if you like, "Ghandi-like". Peace Bro.
revolutionconway 3 years ago
Jesus' star was in the west,the wise men saw it in the east.That's one wrong right there.
CBALLEN 4 years ago
what have i studied? haha...how about THE BIBLE?? Full of contradictions...it says one thing, then another in a different place, its a joke....I do believe Jesus was a good guy tho so ur right i coulda been more "Jesus" Like. The Bible has God commanding rape, pillage, and killing..dont believe me? I'll give u the exact passage. How can you believe in a book filled with so much lies and deceit? God is NOT all loving, all caring, etc, and I can show u stories from ur own "holy text"to prove it
evolutionbeats 3 years ago
you do understand there are different literary genre's presented in the bible? do you understand that much of the old testament is the story of God wanting to partner with the Israelites to be an example of His love for the world and they just keep messing up? so if you have all these contradictions and commands to pillage and rape present them and let's look at the context in which they were written and originally intended..remember that ANY historical document has errors.
revolutionconway 3 years ago
The scriptures of truth is our rule and guide for our the saint of God apart from the issue of this presentation can anyone see something right in front of your face? It is a shame for a man to have long hair, hello!! What is he and everyone who is frightened to talk to the man? Such spiritual childishness. When are going to take the bible seriously? When? spiritual childishness. Read 1 Corinthians 11:14 small issue you say? The entire church practise is antibiblical read 1Cor.14:26-36
tjg2008 4 years ago
You do know Mr. Massey studied Egyptology for 30 years... heck at least one of his egyptologist colleagues was christian. Though not a life time I'm sure that was plenty enough for him to decipher the texts as best he could. And since no one can really be 100% sure that their translation is right then proof that christianity copied the egyptian religion may be impossible. But you cannot deny that it's possible that some of Christs story is lifted from others... can you?
xefenarchmagi 4 years ago
I don't think any of it is, at least on purpose. Too many people forget all the books in the New Testament are seperate documents written by seperate people all talking about Jesus, and they are valid historical documents. Also there are documents outside the New Testament that talk about Jesus, Pontius Pilate, and other people described in the New Testament.
Spattay 4 years ago
Hi Spattay,
Thanks for putting Bruxy's teaching up on this!
ThatGuyTy 4 years ago
ha ha made up stuff based on 100 year old fiction.
your made up stuff is 6000 years old and way more fictitious.
darkz2k3 4 years ago
I'd love to have an intelligent discussion regarding this, if you actually want to present a conversation on why you think that feel free.
Jesus is a real person, and the majority of historians agree on his life and death on a cross at the very least. Thanks for the post.
Spattay 4 years ago
To put what I believe into simple terms: I believe that all the facts represented in Zeitgeist the Movie are truthful and are on the right track, BUT they are VERY stretched. Probably because if they sat down and held our hands and guided us step by step, the movie would last 3 or 4 hours long... let's be realistic here: how many people would actaully watch a "documentary" type video that is 4 hours long? They are trying to get this message out to as many people as possible ASAP. Its about GOVT.
LightningWarPRO 4 years ago 2
your not answering the question spattay, Does OTHER (notice how i emphasise other) aspects of the Attis myth PRE-DATE christianity bar the ressurection yes or no ? just a yes or no answer
combat524 4 years ago
First, it wasn't a resurrection.
Otherwise I believe the general myth does pre-date Christianity, but I have found no parallels except for the zeitgiest movie renaming terms to sound like Jesus. Example, no scholarly article says, crucified, born of a virgin, born on dec 25th, dead for 3 days, or even resurrected. Not even one of the claims in zetigeist can be found in a standard research article.
Spattay 4 years ago
...justifies the condemnation of the religous aspects of Zeitgeist and the theory that the research of the film has made
combat524 4 years ago
A very valid point you can't judge the whole movie based on one point being wrong. If you look into zeitgiest one of the main problems is they use terminology ascribed for Jesus and realllllly stretch it so it can be used for the mytholigical "gods". Terms like birth, miracles, resurrection, truth, light. And I'd be open to looking at the rest of the claims for Attis, maybe i'll take a look at ol wikipedia :).
Spattay 4 years ago
Spattay you state "the most important part of Jesus ministry was the death and resurrection" if this is the case then fine, however do you not find it a little strange that for example the Attis myth has all the other aspects EG (Birth,miracles,"the truth", "the light" etc)and for example all the other personified prophets share at least handful of identical information that PRE-DATES the birth of jesus christ ? Bruxy has picked out one POSSIBLE flaw in the ressurection , that bearly ....
combat524 4 years ago
I know this doens't count as very well investigated research, but the wikipedia article has no mention of the words, "truth", or "light", or "miracle".
Spattay 4 years ago
I'm glad i found this debate but to start with, there are a couple of parts i would like to point at:
2.29 - "....take a week and do some serious study..."
There's no way you can do a serious study in a week.
2.08 - ".....regular history book...."
And certainly not using a REGULAR history book,
cause you'll finish where you started, inside an endless loop of doubtful information.....
Robinexs 4 years ago
i will post more comments tommorow and continue documenting my opinions on this subject plz respond to my comments as i am interested in your opinion
combat524 4 years ago
Yea no problem I will continue to respond as time allows. Thanks for your comments yourself, it's good to have an open dialogue while searching for truth, God bless =).
Spattay 4 years ago
07:02 - 07:07 "but we find that (ressurection)inserted into writings that post date christianity" have you ever considered the fact that early PRE- christian recordings of Attis' ressurection may have been lost and a few centuries later POST- christianity found again ... also there is sevral other elements of the Attis myth the PRE-date christaianty which statiscally make the validity of yor statement wrong ... wether or not the ressurection scriptures were wrriten before or after .....
combat524 4 years ago
the fact the ressurection is a transmutation into an evergreen tree completely invalidates it in my mind and shows how the makers of zeitgeist are very deceptive in what they present.
I like your point though and its valid otherwise, there could indeed be pre-Christian recordings that existed that we don't have. If they're ever found I'd be interested to see. But even an evergreen tree transmuatation before Jesus will not convince me very well ;).
Spattay 4 years ago
06:55 -06:59 " the attis myth does predate chritianity but it doesnt include a death and resurrection" ok one POSSIBLE FLAW .... excuse me but have you just completely misdirected the entire myth of Attis ? Attis has all the other elements of Jesus Christ the DOB ETC
combat524 4 years ago
The most important part of Jesus ministry was the death and resurrection. That is the "good news" (what gospel means). The good news that God loves us so much he would die for us. Because God won't let sin go for free. A Good judge doesn't let a murderer go off without Justification/Justice. Pinning all sin onto Jesus, and then having faith in him allows us to accept the work he did. (I believe Bruxy goes over all the main points, as generalized as they are)
Spattay 4 years ago
to get in thier minds what seems an easy way into "heaven" if such a place exists, indeed the only people who notice the injustice of this tend to be athiests such as myself. by contrast it is funny to notice how the majority of fundamental - church going christians tend to add the non - church going christians to thier faith which inturn to the average bystander makes christianity seem more popular
combat524 4 years ago
an interesting point. It is sad when following Jesus becomes something of an assumption in a nation or group. What we really need is there to be open searching encouraged, for everyone to look at the facts and evidence themselves. To let go of biases indeed.
Spattay 4 years ago
2:12 - "thier betting on the fact that most of us are lazy when it comes to research" the majority of non fundamentalist christians and all other followers of religion have never even read one verse of the bible , from your christian standpoint that has such a high level of hypocritical nature that im in fits of laughter. in fact most christians i know dont even research anything to do with christianity indeed they label themselves with the "christian" persona ...
combat524 4 years ago
If this is the case then these people aren't really Christians and you have to be careful not to judge that they are. Jesus says in one part of the Bible, "Some will call me Lord, Lord on the judgement day, and I will reply, get away from me, I never knew you" (that's a rough paraphrase from memory).
Once again you try to distract from the point, rather then explain why it isn't a good point. Thanks for the dialogue none the less :).
Spattay 4 years ago
1:46 - 1:49 "the real schoars underneath know all this but dont want to tell you" the entire film is based upon a years worth of research ... it has nothing to do with 100 year old scholars reading hieroglyphics all hieroglyphics have order and sense to them what your stateing really holds no validity
combat524 4 years ago
actually if you check the zeitgeist site George Massey is where the majority of all the "facts" come from.
Spattay 4 years ago
..... focus of your view of zeitgeist is more orientated towards the religous aspects of the films which is a very tertiary element of the film
combat524 4 years ago
00:19 - 00:25 "the system has been supressing, the institution the man is keeping you down by not allowing you to see this information" - From you prior comment and your three video clip inserts/ responses it seem to me that your approach is truley confined within the realms of relligion which as other have pointed out is not the main focus of the film ... also from this statement it sounds again as if you dont know what your talking about in regards to politics ... it seems to me as if the...
combat524 4 years ago
Yes, I'm only interested in the part of this film relating to Jesus. Jesus is the Lord/Saviour of my life and he is God, so what could be more important for me? I don't recall mentioning politics but ok there :).
Spattay 4 years ago
00:13 - 00:16 "the presentation of confidence is so backed up it has the air of "i can't believe you didnt know this"" - christianity has for centuries made people terrified of religion and christianity as they spouted with horrific tendancy the barbaric nature of the old testament so this statement especially from a christian such as yourself is absurd and so hypocritical it leaves me with a mentality of distaste as to what your saying
combat524 4 years ago
The Christian church has indeed made mistakes, and the only way to judge Christianity is to look at the source: Jesus Christ (a sinless man who died for sinners). Your argument does not invalidate the point made here, it merely trys to distract by looking at an unrelated point.
Spattay 4 years ago
spattay, i think your logical mentality is highly falwed and your faith in christiany like all other christians and religions is just not true i will now piece by piece disect and note each reason for this with referance to what you state in these clips,
combat524 4 years ago 2
thanks for your responses then :). Always good to have an open minded dialogue.
Spattay 4 years ago
Pastor, the gig is up!
If you totally believe in your cause(cult), then let it be. Why stand up on stage, with a hint of desperation in your voice, trying to convince your followers that zeitgeist is wrong.
The tides are turning. Science has taken over and your "cash cow" will come to an end.
Dototocrowtinroar 4 years ago
That's a rather ridiculous comment. You have supported none of your statements. If you look into things I believe you will find that God does exist. There are a few arguments that William Lane Craig, a Christian Philospher points out. One is that anything that has a start has a cause, the Universe started, therefore the Universe had a cause. Unless you believe nothing created the Universe then God did.
Spattay 4 years ago
Is this guy a Christian?
believerornot 4 years ago
He's a teaching pastor from "The Meeting House" (their website is linked in the about this video).
Spattay 4 years ago
I wondered what his agenda was.
believerornot 4 years ago
OK? Didn't answer my questions?? I am going to assume you do have answers for them?
If God screwed up, why would you want to model an answer after ANYTHING He did or promised (here and now or in the after-life?)
gsixty 4 years ago
I think my last post did answer your questions. To spell it out, I would put all my children in heaven to begin with, without this "middle step" of earth.
Perhaps you didn't get my sarcasm in the original post - I don't really believe god screwed up, as I don't believe he exists. This is partly because of my argument, that if he was all powerful and all good, he wouldn't have created this world.
qmort21 4 years ago
If you'll let me step in for a second :).
originally there was paradise, and God gave mankind free choice by putting one rule in the garden. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and from there sin started and the world becomes messed up from our turning away from God.
God wants free choice.
Spattay 4 years ago
But will there be free choice in heaven? Then it would get just as screwed up as earth. Or perhaps we will become robots when we get to heaven. Whichever, if the christian god existed, he would have done better to just skip that middle part, and start right out with heaven.
qmort21 4 years ago
Not if he wants to see who will have faith and follow him in a world that has free choice.
Spattay 4 years ago
So god created the world, and us all, just to see who would have faith in a wildly improbable story, and reward that? That's just sick - that's the last thing I would do as god, or reward. That's probably a terrible insult to the real god if there was any. It sounds like a made up notion to keep people afraid to think for themselves.
qmort21 4 years ago
God wants to be in a relationship with you. There's nothing improbable about it. If you're ignoring God and not trying to find him ... you won't. God wants to see faith. He wants to see people searching for him. One of the girls I know at University was seeking God and didn't know him, but she prayed to find him, and she felt called to turn on the TV, when she did the face of Jesus was there, in whatever show was on. God meets us where we are, (read Jeremiah 29:11-13 for more)
Spattay 4 years ago
Thats a bullshit guilt trip, an equivalent to emotional terrorism. Fundamentalism sucks!
qmort21 4 years ago
God is imaginary. Normally if you have a relationship with an imaginary person you're very likely to be locked up for your own safety and the safety of everybody around you. Why doesn't this happen??? Instead we are surrounded by psychopaths who want us to worship their imaginary being or die! I'd say God help us but then I'd have to lock myself up!
believerornot 4 years ago 4
Fair enough.. I like to say what I am thinking (being kind about it though) so sarcasm isn't easily detected as I hope to understand as well as be understood. If there is no god (for the sake of argument let's say there isn't) Can you explain why this world is so messed up if there isn't a god to blame it on? How can we blame our problem on god if there isn't one?
gsixty 4 years ago
I don't blame god, or anything, I don't know if you still got all the sarcasm. Just because something happens that you don't like, doesn't mean somebody is to blame. "Shit happens", as the famous philosopher once said. Atoms are constantly smashing into each other all over the place, I wouldn't blame one of those atoms over the other.
qmort21 4 years ago
"How about, I'd just make everybody happy? That shouldn't be a tough assignment at all, if god lived up to his billing." "I don't blame god, or anything..."
In the sea of sarcasm is it safe to assume there is a bit of finger pointing? Once again, I am going to agree with you. It really isn't God you have a problem with, it's all the people who claim God is real and do things that make this world an unhappy place to live?
gsixty 4 years ago
There will always be conflict in the world, there is nobody to blame for that. Although, some people do seem to thrive more on conflict than others.
qmort21 4 years ago
True, and then there's the choice of looking into it or just blindly rejecting it.
Spattay 4 years ago
Interesting clip...
Here is the answer I got from Peter J. when I e-mailed him about Part 1 of Zeitgeist;
"Part1 is argued by people who conduct poor research. 99% of them have never read anything other than encyclopedias or their religious texts."
If this is true, then it means your research is poorly done. The question is then how to conduct a very good research.. what's your opinion on that?
johan82 4 years ago
It doesn't mean the research is poorly done, it means a person who supports a movie that has questionable research in itself says the research against it is poorly done.
I automatically become suspicious when he states that anyone who uses an Encyclopedia is doing poor research.
I don't see why people who research from encycolpedias should be rejected. I know ones like the oxford encyclopedia have really good scholarly qualifications. And wikipedia is slowly getting up there.
Spattay 4 years ago
This guy is very convinced that Christianity is unique and that every other religion copied his but he's not very convincing. Never really proves his point, just looks at his followers like, "We all know Jesus is god, right?"
Good apologist for Christianity but not a very good debater.
REman07 4 years ago 6
And yes these are based on what God gave to Moses. Jesus quotes these from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.
Spattay 4 years ago
If jesus was only quoting Deuteronomy then what made him so special in the first place? And then what is the true definition of love to your opinion?
drbeyk 4 years ago
Ok, Jesus was the long awaited Messiah. He did miracles, rose people from the dead, healed people, and forgave people of their sins. He made huge claims, he said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me". Jesus is God in the flesh, which is very special.
Even looking at prophecies he fulfilled, 800 years before Jesus was born in Bethlehem from a virgin the Bible already declared it. This all points to a signifigance we need to look into.
Spattay 4 years ago
We all know the story. Can you prove any of that?
REman07 4 years ago
Great question.
All twelve disciples of Jesus died (one was tortured and lived), and not one went back on their faith of what they actually saw.
Archaelogical evidence is abounding, for example a fountain where Jesus healed a man has recently been excavated that matches the description in the book of John perfectly.
There is tons of evidence and proof out there, I applaud your seeking of it, we don't want blind faith :). Jesus says to seek!
Spattay 4 years ago
Abounding? So where is it? Look, I am a fundamentalist preachers son, you can't fool me with any of the garbage your pastor taught you. I've heard it all before. Christianity is a fraud...
REman07 4 years ago 2
I posted a response to this and it didn't appear, sorry about that. If this one works I'll try again later.
Spattay 4 years ago
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
- Matthew 22: 36-40
Spattay 4 years ago
What?? man i cant understand a single word you're blabbing about your mind is really FUBAR!!
seriously! ..
your pearls=crap just like your comment!!
Your belief in your God is indeed strong but your insight is zero..
Nickiewoo 4 years ago
Please read from down up.
drbeyk 4 years ago
Admit that the state of the world today is not how it should be and christianity had it´s significant part in it. Surely the world has not become any better since the beginning of the common era and that alone prooves and is evidence of the difference between good and bad. By this proof we should know what is bad and try to find out what is good. Could that be the purpose of life? Hope you accept my appologies and feel free to remove what ever you like.
drbeyk 4 years ago
I agree the state of the world today could be better, and certainly people professing themselves to be Christians have caused lots of problems, I'm sure we all know about the crusades.
Certainly we need to look for good. Jesus himself gave two commands that summarized them all. 1. Love God 2. Love your neighbour as yourself. If everyone did this I have no doubts the world would look much different then it does today.
Spattay 4 years ago
Christianity, with all its confusions, being the lower level of the pyramid of socalled freemasonry, is a tool to achieve the goals of these leaders. All this is the very essence of idol-worshipping and thereby the successor of pagan religion from old. So i suggest to run your surveys again and check out the matter more criticaly.
drbeyk 4 years ago
I entirely reject zeitgeists claims about Christianity.
What too many people miss is the fact that Jesus was a real person,
There were twelve disciples of Jesus, 11/12 of them died for their faith and never went back on it. This is signifigant because they all saw Jesus, and they would rather die then say what they saw wasn't true. The 12th person was tortured and left on an island.
This is from history books, this is not even in the Bible.
Spattay 4 years ago
What history book is that exactly?
deanmoriarty23 4 years ago 3
I posted a response, not sure why it didn't work.
Anyway here's a summary of what I wanted to say.
Look up each of the 12 disciples on wikipedia, that's the quickest thing you can do. Each of their pages should have details on the deaths and the sources for that.
Spattay 4 years ago
No reason even to mention that history books are just as fraud as the people who wrote them. (Quote Winston Chuchill: "HISTORY IS GOING TO BE KIND TO ME BECAUSE I AM GOING TO WRITE IT")
drbeyk 4 years ago
So if you want to see what the goal of Christianity is you have to do research on the only perfect example, Jesus himself.
Spattay 4 years ago
Eh don't circling around he was asking you about the book!!
Nickiewoo 4 years ago 2
Men´s nature is evil and selfish from birth and only by the right and true education can he improve and mend his ways. If he doesn´t, he will keep on focusing on his limited material world, while every now and than buying off his guilty concience by donating an amount of charity to some fraud organization, and these leaders can just continue their works.
drbeyk 4 years ago
people could focus more on getting a job for example, rather than hoping so much just go and keep trying, label me as the devil's advocate but its just how the world really is
backlash420 4 years ago
Surly some details in the movie have minor errors but that gives no reason to reject it completely. I totaly agree that people should research the sources and i believe the movie very much inspires to do so. If you look for instance to Africa, how can a continent, so rich of recources be hungry and poor, while all their food lies in our stores. Where lies the responsibility for that. Isn´t it so that this is done by mal education, lies and supression by the richest few?
drbeyk 4 years ago
I just got angry the other day, so my sincere apology for being personal. I do believe that few people are trying to rule the world at any cost based on very old tradition. These people care about nothing but them selves and their family interests and are taking precautions so that the average men can´t revolt, by restricting his freedom bit by bit. Zeitgeist gives a close and interesting impression on the subject.
drbeyk 4 years ago