This just shows how overrated Michael Jordan really is. I mean seriously, look at how confused he is against the zone. The only baskets he gets is if he's in transition and if he's guarded 1 on 1... OVERRATED!
@GetPaid2Click Basketball 101 for dummies: for great efficient offense, always look to get high percentage shots. Don't just hog the ball and force shots over the defense like a moron. When facing more than one defender, at least one of your teammates is open. Passing is a priority in this situation in order to breakdown the defense or reset the offense. The less defense you have on you at a given play, the better. The result - 53 points on 70% shooting despite facing aggressive defense.
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@jp3813 Basketball 101 for dummies: If your teammates don't give a fuck about winning a basketball game and have no skill at all, you do whatever it takes to win the basketball game for your team. Kobe has been doing this for YEARS AND YEARS, while on the other hand, MJ has had one of the 50 greatest players of all time not only on offense, but on defense. Pippen is one of the greatest defenders ever, and in my opinion even better than MJ. There's a reason they won those 6 championships (Pippen)
@GetPaid2Click Yes, Kobe was so heroic when he got swept this year w/ his incredible 17 points on 38% shooting in the final game of the series. Newsflash, MJ is 6 for 6 in finals MVPs. Not even an injured Pippen nor a flu could stop him. That's what you call doing whatever it takes. This video ain't about Kobe or Pippen anyway. You just desperately tried to change the subject b/c you know your first post was incredibly dumb. Great offensive players "do whatever it takes" to find open shots.
They also "do whatever it takes" to set up their teammates for open shots. As this video shows, MJ's passing lets his teammates be effective on the offensive end despite their low level talent. Imagine what MJ could do w/ a dominant big man like Shaq. They would've won 10 titles together.
@Jordanhair My only explanations for your description is either you are being sarcastic or you don't know basketball, and judging by your videos, I'll take the former.
@Jordanhair, you can't be serious. This video is full of double-teams and other such forms of help defense (with some isolation); if you know basketball you would know this. If you notice also, in isolation plays, Michael scores effortlessly. It is only during the double/triple teams that he has to exert a little more effort. Plus, the league was much more athletic than you seem to realize, my friend. Ever heard of David Thompson, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Spud Webb, Scottie Pippen?
are you retarded? help defense can take many forms. sometimes its just helping out when a wing player is penetrating, but when you have 2 guys guarding 1 guy and trying to trap him out on the wing, that's a double team. is your definition of a double team when 2 players guard one guy the entire possession and just permanently leave another player open? because that's never happened in the history of the NBA. if the other team was truly doing that, the Bulls would have scored 170 pts.
yeah youre right at 0:54 thats totally not a double team at all. wait. yeah it is. I'm not saying Jordan is the MOST double teamed person ever ( I'm sure Shaq was double teamed more), but Kobe's is not double teamed more than MJ ever was.
ooh...the old time Nba game seems to be like" FIFA final" with fast rhythm and intensity for every single game that I don't believe today's slagger players even could survive at that old time..including kobe..
My god, how quick Jordan was, I had chance to watch him in his 2nd and 3rd comeback and he was the best player in the world during chicago's 2nd 3 titles, but man, watching him during 80's when he was this athletic I didnt had chance, this guy is pure force of nature on court, thank god for u2b and those guys that put old jordan clips so we can see and remember why the best player of all time is called the G.O.A.T
I love Jordan. But he played in a pre zone NBA. It was manning up. He was more athletic than any 2 guard in the NBA in his time. Craig Ehlo? Now, they zone, double off the ball. If Kobe played in Jordan's NBA, He'd average 40. The comparison is unfair. Jordan was the man. Kobe IS the man
@mikeisLA Pre zone era was better defense. Zone is weak defense, that's why teams rarely play it. You say Craig Ehlo, I say Courtney Lee, and JJ Reddick. They doubled MJ off the ball too. If Kobe played in MJ's era, he'd average mid 20s on 44% shooting, if he was lucky. Kobe is horribly inefficient and overrated.
"Last season, Jordan had to [overcome] the harassment of [zone traps] and [double & triple teaming] to win the scoring title by averaging 37.1 points a game"
-- NY Times, Nov 4, 1987
"[Zones] were also used [frequently] before they were [legalized] as well. One example, the 80s Celtics were known [users] of it & always got away with it. These are the same Celtics Jordan destroyed from an individual standpoint."
Dude there were many players as athletic as jordan in the NBA. There are plenty of athletes in the NBA equal to Jordan's raw ability right now. His creativity and intelligence is what made him the second greatest scorer of all time.
a double team is when two players are guarding one person. doesnt matter if its help defense or not. plus the opponents were told to watch jordan at all times for instant help defense. they didnt play great help d with someone who wasnt a threat with the ball. dude you think way too highly of yourself and that is why you will fail at life :)
It looks like there was no rule to prevent a team focus on one player all day long. And I can't believe Jordan survived in that era and average 30+ ppg.
Those defenders are everywhere and move all the time, today the advanced defense would never do this kind of trap on only one player.
I never watched games in 80s, it's pretty impressive to see how sticky those defenders were back to 80s, normal NBA players can't touch the ball by that kind of defense.
This guy must be using reverse psychology in his video description. MJ is constantly being doubled and tripled throughout this video. Even without the ball. You can even notice the entire defense collapse on him at certain points. I don't know what planet Jordanhair is from, but this video displays the complete opposite of what his video description states. Call it help defense if you want to, but at the end of the day was it one, two, or three help defenders on MJ?
Also, defense is defined as resistance from an attack. And those help defenses [doubles, triples] look exactly like what they are attempting to resist. But obviously to no avail, the GOAT still dropped 53 against these help defenses [doubles, triples]!
hah, another dagger in the heart of people claiming all MJ's faced is isolation defense, and never faced triples, or zones, or got doubled without the ball. Jordan faced EVERY type of defense Kobe faces, and more! MJ is the GOAT
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
No, I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. I even read the description a few times.
And obviously I watched the video, which is why I commented as i did. But YouTube is full of people dumb enough to post videos that directly contradict their claims.
In my defense I will point out that the comment to this video isn't exactly very clearly written, but I owe the maker an apology if sarcasm was his intent.
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
To Jordanhair I obviously can't say for sure, but I highly doubt that you would average more than Jordan if you had his height and athletic ability. Especially at the same efficiency as him. He was a genius on the court. Whatever the defense gave him he took it. If you cut off one thing he'd take another. Either way you paid for it. He was relentless.And it took thousands of hours of practice to hone his skill level. Having his body wouldn't make you as good as him, or even good at all.
the defense in jordan's era for me(opinion) was tighter because there were no defensive 3 seconds and handchecking was not yet banned at that time, and their defense is just as good as today or maybe before was more brutal compared to now.
Rofl. WTF do you think double / triple team is? when a player/s leaves the player/s he/they are defending to come help defend vs an offensive player their teammate is guarding simple as that. At least learn something if you're going to criticize MJ. I mean not to be dissing the poster of this video but seriously. What you call "help defense" is better than any defense played now a days.
And if you don't believe MJ was the most double/triple teamed player in NBA history. Look at the "The Jordan Rules".... seriously the pistons created a separate set of plays rules etc w/e you wanna call it just to defend MJ and eventually he overcame that too.
This video was titled that to "Show" all of the double & triple teaming of MJ during these days..
The title is just the "hook"..the video itself debunks the MYTH that these dumb kobe homers try to use & hide behind when they use that silly "MJ played against 1 on 1 coverage" line..
so so true...jordanhair is a moron this video even shows jordan being double teamed and he says the video "proves" he wasnt....he doesnt deserve the name "jordan" as part of his account name
today's NBA players dont eve move their hands & feets. Just look at this video, Hands & bodies are flying everywhere. every MJ move is contested if not challenged. Its impossible to even comprehend how MJ dominated this physical era despite being skinny & having height around 6-6. He was way too special
That was because MJ was as physically gifted as they come. He said he didn't even train his legs yet without weights he jumped 10 inches higher than KB (48in vs 38in). Besides that, MJ was one of the strongest players in the league pound for pound. Imagine with all the conditioning and machines they have now.
ROFL the entire team is trying to stop him. You can't fucking stop Mike, he's fucking undeniable. He did this shit against the toughest fucking rugged defense. Keep in fucking mind, this is 1987, THIS WAS HIS THIRD YEAR PEOPLE. HE DROPPED 37PPG THAT YEAR WHILE SHOOTING 48% oh..and uh 3 steals, 5 assists, and 5 boards. FUCKING BEAST.
those are impressive stats. But he won all the championships with lesser stat which again tells us the game is a team game. I will never judge a player with his stats. But the way he leads his team. Kobe/jordan are almost the same for me king of their time but still jordan are the man. No disrespect to kobe just that gasol/bynum/odom just never step up in crutial time. Kobe did what ever he could to create chances for those bastards to get 20 points per game.
"Kobe/jordan are almost the same for me king of their time"
For MJ yes, but U can't say that about kobe & maintain a straight face LOL!!
If kobe's been the "king of his time", then "WHERE IN THE HELL" are the individual & team accolades that PROVE what you're saying?
He hasn't been the most dominant player of this era! I could say that about Tim Duncan B4 I could about kobe! Where's kobe's MULTIPLE titles, MVP's or Finals MVP's that PROVES his dominance?
haha. ok ok. you might be rite. but still kobe dont have a true supporting cast. gasol and odom is way too soft in the final last year. Wit the way vujacic defend ray allen in the final, even MJ cant do much. Remember kobe's team have alot of open three from kobe's play. I have to give credit to kobe. It would have been different with Eddie house/posey/horry/kerr/fox. His team is just not ready for a championship.
B4 the Finals, everyone said the lakers had the BETTER team & bench, but then they started gettin' served & then everyone turned on kobe's supporting cast, like it was ENTIRELY their fault..
This is the problem I have with kobe fans.
I ALWAYS find it funny how kobe fans diss Lebron because he & his team lost to the Celtics by saying "His" individual performance was the cause. But when U look at kobe's poor showing vs them, kobe fans blame his "Teamates" LOL!!
shaq dominated for 3 straight yrs. (when they won their titles) duncan has been dominating since 99 & has more accomplishments (well just 1 more legue mvp)
you have 1 game from his rookie season. The defense of the late 80's early 90's is 100% tougher than today. David Stern took away the hand check rule to create a more offense orientated game. You can barely touch a guy now and its a foul. Its a joke really. Michael played during a time with more hall of famers than ever. Argue all you want....you ask 1000 people who the best ever is 95% of them will tell you MJ....no doubt
One thing I noticed during last night's game is Kobe's ability to dribble into double teams. He'd dribble not to an open space, but to a location where a defender was close too. I noticed this time and time again last night, where the help defender didn't switch off or close the lane, HE DRIBBLED INTO THEM. I couldn't believe it, this happened at least 3 times.
Yes, I've noticed the very same thing. You can see it too on some of the highlight videos on youtube, one in particular sticks out, where he has the ball just right of the FT line, dribbles into a double team and is forced into the corner where he jacks up a three-pointer. Yes, he makes the low-percentage shot but that's not the point. He should have easily (with his great athletic skills) been able to cut it inside and have a relatively open lane to the basket. No comparison.
Jordan just had an incredible ability to get thru the seams of the defense like no other. There has never been a player like jordan ever who could get to a hole so quickly and be able to manuever on a dime. I know a guy who used to play pick-up in chicago with jordan in his prime, and he said he was blown away by how much Jordan can cover so quickly...He was just too long and quick for defenses to get to him fast enough to prevent the penetration most of the time.
if jordan was laying the ball up and dunking it all the time wouldn't his field goal percentage look more like shaq's? jordan was an exceptional jumpshooter who had the option of penetrating defenses do to his speed and ability to read defenses...but make no mistake about he was a jumpshooter
for the simple fact he's visually quicker than all of the perimeter players who play today....and the fact that they cannot control him with their hands or by playing him up close an personal. jordan would be laying the ball up much more than he did in the 80s and 90s. people are under this illusion that jordan layed up and dunked all his points eventhough jordan's career field goal percentage says otherwise.
I've always compared MJ to a 6'6 Iverson, in regards to his speed. As shown in this vid, the lane was always clogged and he rarely had any lanes in which to penetrate. Even when he broke past a double, he was met with ANOTHER double or triple. Help defenders were quicker to switch since his teammates weren't respected and he had never played with a decent big man that drew defenders.
none of the so called "great perimeter" players of today who are said to be able to score like jordan can't shoot 50 plus percent while scoring over 30 a game. jordan's field goal percentage would increase drastically in this era of basketball...if he played in his prime.
jordan could score from all over the court his scoring average is a product of his shot attempts...just like any other scorer. what made jordan extra special was the fact he scored all those points while shooting over 50percent....which was fuckin sick.
in jordan's day guys specialized in defense... because it was promoted by coaches and the league. nowadays if a teams wants to play defense you better have a rep for playing it or else your going to be in foul trouble all game long.
i want someone to name me a motherfucker who is a great defensive player in this era? there is none...not bruce fuckin bowen who is 100 years old...not washed up ron artest not shane battier...and not ben wallace.
There's decent defenders, but not great. And ironically enough, the so called great defenders like Bowen, Artest, and Battier AREN'T athletic or tall. They play what would be considered normal defense in MJ's era. And they couldn't be as physical or have the consistent "team" help.
they were known for their defense...the west only had a few good defensive teams like the spurs and rockets...other than that it was usually a track meet out there. for morons to suggest jordan didn't destory the best defensive teams is madness.....jordan didn't get any breaks on defense like these perimeter players of today.
Notice Phil's comment on MJ being DOUBLED and TRIPLED:
Phil Jackson on Jordan, Kobe: ""I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled."
"I kind of told him he's had off the last couple of years," Jackson said. "He's just kind of hedged on there in the wing, and hung out and played one-on-one, and pick and choose. I think our offense needs to have him as a distributor. He needs to get that mind-set back about being a playmaker and distributor. He's had his opportunity in scoring and being a great scorer."
You can find a game and edit Kobe isolating all day long. FACT is, you can find TONS of instances of Jordan being doubled, tripled, and trapped. He was throughout his career. And no, doubling did not begin with Kobe, educate yourself.
Apparently not! hah. I was watching a Jordan rookie season game last night vs. the Lakers, and the announcers were saying that most teams, in Jordan's ROOKIE season, had to double him to even slow him down.
rrTale, I believe you're mistaken. I've read in numerous books that, prior to MJ, only Wilt had scored 50+ in 3 consecutive games. Kobe has since done it in 4 straight, but I never heard Baylor's name mentioned. I could be wrong, though, if you have a source.
"The last Laker with three consecutive 50-point games was Hall of Famer Elgin Baylor in December 1962. Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain are the only other players with three straight 50-point games. Chamberlain has the record with seven consecutive 50-point games, which he did in December 1961."
ESPN article on Bryant extending his 50 point streak to 3 games.
(cont.) Payton, Cheeks, Alvin Robertson, Moncrief, Pippen, Jordan, Cooper, DJ, Majerle, Pressey, McCray, Reid, McKey, Sprewell, McMillan, Rodman, Dumars, Starks, Gerald Wilkins, Newman...the list of good/great defenders is endless. And on top of all these great defenders, as you can see from this video and others, Jordan was doubled/trapped/swarmed more than any player of his era, and more than all but a couple in history (Wilt/Shaq). That he still produced the way he did is amazing.
Also, I do believe that the quality of man to man defense was equal or superior from '85-'96 than it has been from '04-'09. Part of that is the increased physicality permitted, and part of it is that defenders needed to be able to contain their man better because of no zone and lesser team defenses. The individual defensive players at the PG/SG/SF spots in Jordan's era have not been matched imo (continued)
By the way, like SPMJ, I believe that the best defense was played between 1993-2004. It was the best blend of physical defense and good/great team defense. I too believe that Jordan would be the same exact player today on slightly lower FG% (his TS% may remain virtually unchanged since he'd be getting to the line 11+ times each year; at any rate, it'd be above 59.0% TS in his best years).
Glad you said this, jl23. Since it's coming from you people will take it a lot more seriously. To me the "MJ would average 40+ ppg today" talk(a belief held by a lot of people who post here) is just as bad as the BS spewed by KB42PAH and clowns like him.
btw for jordan to average 40 ppg he would have to attempt over 30 plus shots....so unless he's willing to do that he's not going to average than many points. jordan could have averaged that many points in his era if he was allowed to attempt that many shots like wilt and elgin baylor were.
Beyond all the selective editing liberties taken in KB24PAH's video; beyond the fact that he condensed an entire SERIES worth of plays into one 10 minute video, there is this: people like KB24PAH don't want you to remember that WE SAW KOBE UNDER MAN-TO-MAN RULES FOR THE FIRST 8 YEARS OF HIS CAREER (1997-2004). Kobe was not some sort of world-beater under man-to-man rules either in the regular season or playoffs, despite having Shaq to draw defensive attention. He was great, but not Jordan great.
i have many arguements about kobe and since u brought up this ill gladly point out that kobe has never hit 50% from the floor. kobe played with shaq for 6 years and spent that time shooting wide open jumpers off of shaq double teams. not once he hit 50%. phil jackson has said kobe has better shooting skills and yet he cant hit half his shots playing with shaq?
Also, something that's often overlooked about the difference in defense between then and now is that back then, you could hard trap players without getting called for touch fouls. This meant that you could more easily get the ball OUT OF a player's hands. Nowadays, if you try to hard trap, all the offensive player has to do is keep dribbling around or faking and they'll eventually get a whistle. This happens a LOT. This means you can't take star players out of the game (figuratively) as much.
its alot harder for big men these days. the perimeter players have benefited the most with the rule changes that started in the 1999-2000 season which has evolved to this day. players have no chance at guarding chris paul,tony parker and other quick guards that can penetrate with ease and we see the rise in productivity of these players. the center position and defense has become extinct
Keep in mind that Jordan had 53 points this game. He averaged 37.1 ppg this year along with 2.9 steals/1.5 blk (first player ever to record 200+ stl/100+ blk in the same season). He did it against defenses much like this. This was the third consecutive game where he had 50+ points, which at that time had only been done once in history. The energy he exerted in every game was phenomenal, and is something that tends to get overlooked about him.
this video is trying to say jordan played under lighter defense which is absurd. thats what this video is trying to demonstrate. the rules and how they let players play then is far more difficult to score in that time. theyre making up facts to support their case of kobe is better. just look at the rules and loot at the stats and i shows 2 things. it shows jordan put up his numbers in tougher conditions and that his numbers are better. this video is a pathetic attempt and trying to show
Agree with everything you said jordanlover just wanted to correct one small thing. By the time MJ did his 50 point streak in '87 two players had achieved this already - Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor.
Like SPMJ said, I'm not sure where this myth that Jordan played 1-on-1 all day came from. Like he said, were teams stupid? Did they just NOT want to double-team the most dangerous scorer in the league, and possibly in history? The reason why at times it looks easy for Jordan is because he was MUCH more adept than a guy like Kobe at reading defenses and exploiting double-teams by going away from them, splitting them, or beating them with his passing. He also always attacked more quickly than KB.
I love how u showed his misses and TO.The problem with the other vids is they only show is highlights and not when he got doubled and pushed without the ball.5/5
This video perfectly demonstrates the double-teaming, trapping, and sometimes outright swarming that Jordan had to deal with his entire career, especially pre-first retirement (and even mmore so pre-1991, which, amazingly, is when he had his most productive statistical seasons). I've always maintained that Jordan is the most double-teamed perimeter player in history by a good margin, and the only other player I've seen doubled as much consistently throughout his career is Shaq.
this video is ridiculous. help defense is the same thing and double teaming someone. mr jordanhair pls tell me the difference of the two? in both ur have 2 ppl on u. this video is ridiculous! this is a typical anti jordan and pro kobe video in which they have to make up facts in order to prove kobe is better. since all the stats show jordan is better ur trying to make up things to show kobe plays in a harder league and thats why jordans numbers are better
help defense and double teamed are THE SAME THING!! ur shooting with 2 ppl on u. some pls tell me what this video is trying to prove? double teaming is the same thing as help defense. wtf?
Great video Jordanhair. I see you've take it upon yourself to enlighten the idiots out there.
Honestly, either you've to be mentally retarded or blind to not see how MJ was truly guarded back in his day. Why would teams not double him?? Are they just stupid? You'd have to be to not double 1 of the 3 most destructive offensive forces of all time. I just don't understand where the "MJ was guarded 1-on-1 by 6'2 guys his entire career" talk comes from.
Of course you know. His name is KB42PAH the kiddies brainwasher. His man crush on KB is sickening. Since KB can stack up to Jordan's accomplishments then "its gotta be the weak D Jordan faced! It just gotta!"
IMO Jordan isnt just "1 of the 3 most destructive offensive forces of all time". He's THE most destructive of them all - dominates at 6'6" SG, complete arsenal of moves and shots while maintaining an astounding efficiency in a tougher defensive era. No one has beaten that.
I actually don't think MJ played in a tougher defensive era. The best defense was played from the mid 90's till about the middle part of the current decade. That doesn't change the fact MJ was doubled all the fucking time. He would still be the same player today, with slightly lower percentages.
i disagree!! the toughest defense was played from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. how can u say to the moderen era!! they started cleaning up the game and making it more offensive minded in 1990-2000 season. it has evolved to what it is today.just look at the rule changes starting then till now. what reason do have for saying defenses are tougher now? can u list rules?
the best defense in nba history was played from 89 to 98 end of story....what motherfuckers don't seem to get about jordan is the fact that he played against the eastern conference defense...which has always been more rugged than western conference defense. teams like the knicks,bucks,pistons,celtics,pacers these teams all played in the east not the west.
Just listen to comment at 6:30 raise the volume. Jordan always had 2 or 3 people hanging him the whole time. Listen to ron harper interview when he said Jordan is the best ever cause of the era he played in saying you could fight in this era. Remember when Jordan was young he always attacked the rim with 3 or 4 people in the lane cause there is no defensive 3 seconds.
1. he rotates the ball before the double team comes.
2. he drives to the hoop before a double team can develop.
For someone who has an ability to average 8 assists per game (1989) wouldn't you think twice before doubling him.
example. 1997 finals, game 6. russell and stockton doubled MJ. He finds Kerr for a wide open game winning fieldgoal. 1998 finals, game 6. single coverage vs russell, hits the game winner. either way, MJ wins. peace.
Read my comments below. Modern day defense is not more "advanced" and due to rule changes meant explicitly to increase perimeter scoring, it's far easier to be an effective perimeter scorer today (i.e. handchecking banned, many more ticky tack fouls calls, less physical play allowed on the perimeter). As well, true zones do not exist today.
Oddly enough, he was doing the best defensive job on him. His speed was making Kobe work hard to get position or the ball. If he had any type of team help and was allowed to be physical, it would've been a different outcome. Since thanks to KPAH, we know Kobe can't deal with physical play.
That's the whole point, a small guy can do a decent job defending Kobe one on one, in isolation plays. Kobe fans say defenders today are bigger, faster, stronger...not true at all, and last night was a great example. They also say Kobe isn't allowed to isolate, and last night was a great contradiction of that premise.
I never said one game was the tell all, it is just a bit of evidence, and an example. Truth is, Kobe has it far easier on offense today, with far less physical play allowed, perimeter handchecking banned, and fouls called much more readily. That's why Phil Jackson said a couple years ago of a prime MJ, "Michael would average 45 a night under these rules."
@mikeisLA 81? Against the worst defense in the league, with lots of pts scored in garbage time, completely abandoning the team concept, in a regular season game. I'd much rather have 6 rings, 6 finals mvps, 5 mvps, 70 nba records including 63 in a playoff game against the world champs and #1 team in the league. Jordan GOAT
I wanna know what the hell the ref blew the whistle for at 2:13
Loudmouf84 6 months ago
My favorite part of the video is when the commentator said double team on Jordan 50 times and triple team on Jordan another 50.
DownloadDoctor1 6 months ago
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This just shows how overrated Michael Jordan really is. I mean seriously, look at how confused he is against the zone. The only baskets he gets is if he's in transition and if he's guarded 1 on 1... OVERRATED!
GetPaid2Click 10 months ago
@GetPaid2Click hellz yea NIGGA!
MrYoyoma33 8 months ago in playlist Michael Jordan SUCKS!!!!!
@GetPaid2Click that's dumb as fuck
Motown49001 8 months ago
@GetPaid2Click Basketball 101 for dummies: for great efficient offense, always look to get high percentage shots. Don't just hog the ball and force shots over the defense like a moron. When facing more than one defender, at least one of your teammates is open. Passing is a priority in this situation in order to breakdown the defense or reset the offense. The less defense you have on you at a given play, the better. The result - 53 points on 70% shooting despite facing aggressive defense.
jp3813 7 months ago 3
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@jp3813 Basketball 101 for dummies: If your teammates don't give a fuck about winning a basketball game and have no skill at all, you do whatever it takes to win the basketball game for your team. Kobe has been doing this for YEARS AND YEARS, while on the other hand, MJ has had one of the 50 greatest players of all time not only on offense, but on defense. Pippen is one of the greatest defenders ever, and in my opinion even better than MJ. There's a reason they won those 6 championships (Pippen)
GetPaid2Click 7 months ago
@GetPaid2Click Yes, Kobe was so heroic when he got swept this year w/ his incredible 17 points on 38% shooting in the final game of the series. Newsflash, MJ is 6 for 6 in finals MVPs. Not even an injured Pippen nor a flu could stop him. That's what you call doing whatever it takes. This video ain't about Kobe or Pippen anyway. You just desperately tried to change the subject b/c you know your first post was incredibly dumb. Great offensive players "do whatever it takes" to find open shots.
jp3813 7 months ago
They also "do whatever it takes" to set up their teammates for open shots. As this video shows, MJ's passing lets his teammates be effective on the offensive end despite their low level talent. Imagine what MJ could do w/ a dominant big man like Shaq. They would've won 10 titles together.
jp3813 7 months ago
@GetPaid2Click Kobe won his first 3 peat cos of shaw dumbass. Shaq? who's Shaq? one of the most dominating players in history
MrCheeseify1 1 month ago
SO HOW WAS THE DEFENSE HE PLAYED AGAIN WHEN HE 38-40 YEARS OLD
Demetrio1926 11 months ago
@Jordanhair My only explanations for your description is either you are being sarcastic or you don't know basketball, and judging by your videos, I'll take the former.
Gfgoodrichtires 11 months ago 3
@Jordanhair, you can't be serious. This video is full of double-teams and other such forms of help defense (with some isolation); if you know basketball you would know this. If you notice also, in isolation plays, Michael scores effortlessly. It is only during the double/triple teams that he has to exert a little more effort. Plus, the league was much more athletic than you seem to realize, my friend. Ever heard of David Thompson, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Spud Webb, Scottie Pippen?
Gfgoodrichtires 11 months ago 2
@Gfgoodrichtires
hey~ Did you see the the description above "me= If I have Jordan's height and athletic ability, I would average 50pts in the 90's." ROTL~
skyknight1991 10 months ago
Jordan playing like Moses, splitting the D like he comes straight out of Exodus
youri98 1 year ago
i think the camera has a hard time following Jordan...hes too quick
sudoku28 1 year ago
are you retarded? help defense can take many forms. sometimes its just helping out when a wing player is penetrating, but when you have 2 guys guarding 1 guy and trying to trap him out on the wing, that's a double team. is your definition of a double team when 2 players guard one guy the entire possession and just permanently leave another player open? because that's never happened in the history of the NBA. if the other team was truly doing that, the Bulls would have scored 170 pts.
togglescratch 1 year ago 6
yeah youre right at 0:54 thats totally not a double team at all. wait. yeah it is. I'm not saying Jordan is the MOST double teamed person ever ( I'm sure Shaq was double teamed more), but Kobe's is not double teamed more than MJ ever was.
quadence 1 year ago
ooh...the old time Nba game seems to be like" FIFA final" with fast rhythm and intensity for every single game that I don't believe today's slagger players even could survive at that old time..including kobe..
779michael 1 year ago
Tripple team pl0x?
utrules23 1 year ago
LOL. Nice sarcasm laced video. Guy's being double teamed the whole game. Haha.
laepnud 1 year ago
Funny how so many people don't know that you are being sarcastic in your description section.
loepower 1 year ago
wow basketball wasso scrappy backthen
res7evil 1 year ago
My god, how quick Jordan was, I had chance to watch him in his 2nd and 3rd comeback and he was the best player in the world during chicago's 2nd 3 titles, but man, watching him during 80's when he was this athletic I didnt had chance, this guy is pure force of nature on court, thank god for u2b and those guys that put old jordan clips so we can see and remember why the best player of all time is called the G.O.A.T
BioUradio 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I love Jordan. But he played in a pre zone NBA. It was manning up. He was more athletic than any 2 guard in the NBA in his time. Craig Ehlo? Now, they zone, double off the ball. If Kobe played in Jordan's NBA, He'd average 40. The comparison is unfair. Jordan was the man. Kobe IS the man
mikeisLA 1 year ago
@mikeisLA Pre zone era was better defense. Zone is weak defense, that's why teams rarely play it. You say Craig Ehlo, I say Courtney Lee, and JJ Reddick. They doubled MJ off the ball too. If Kobe played in MJ's era, he'd average mid 20s on 44% shooting, if he was lucky. Kobe is horribly inefficient and overrated.
utfanatic2000 1 year ago
SMH..U kobe homers are ignorant beyond belief..
"Last season, Jordan had to [overcome] the harassment of [zone traps] and [double & triple teaming] to win the scoring title by averaging 37.1 points a game"
-- NY Times, Nov 4, 1987
"[Zones] were also used [frequently] before they were [legalized] as well. One example, the 80s Celtics were known [users] of it & always got away with it. These are the same Celtics Jordan destroyed from an individual standpoint."
-- NY Times, Feb 29, 2009
Idiot
blackadam06 1 year ago
Hey man you don't even watch the video. Kobe never face this kind of double, trible team, plus hand check and physical defense.
I really don't like you new generation bull shit, always lie for your belief, so ignorant.
fifa1688 1 year ago
rofl you dumb shit the defense back then was much more physical and tougher to beat.
now days its no defense lets just throw the ball at the orange cirlce thingy cus its what coach says to do.
RenegadeNS 1 year ago
at 6:30 they say "everybody in the league plays him the same way, they double him triple him" and jordan still burned them
knowledge198405 1 year ago
Dude there were many players as athletic as jordan in the NBA. There are plenty of athletes in the NBA equal to Jordan's raw ability right now. His creativity and intelligence is what made him the second greatest scorer of all time.
Huggins293 1 year ago
a double team is when two players are guarding one person. doesnt matter if its help defense or not. plus the opponents were told to watch jordan at all times for instant help defense. they didnt play great help d with someone who wasnt a threat with the ball. dude you think way too highly of yourself and that is why you will fail at life :)
mysonnethetruth3 2 years ago
amazing
MrSneakers23 2 years ago
Every single time he was not doubled, basket.
marcelobesch 2 years ago
It looks like there was no rule to prevent a team focus on one player all day long. And I can't believe Jordan survived in that era and average 30+ ppg.
Those defenders are everywhere and move all the time, today the advanced defense would never do this kind of trap on only one player.
I never watched games in 80s, it's pretty impressive to see how sticky those defenders were back to 80s, normal NBA players can't touch the ball by that kind of defense.
jimmychuang 2 years ago
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jimmychuang 2 years ago
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jimmychuang 2 years ago
the thing is he was in is second year in nba because he was injured in 1986!!!
what can we say??
most people today compare kobe or others to him!!!
when you look mj in the 80's and particulary in year 1987(37.2ppg)you dont compare any player with him.....
he is simply in anotha level!!!!!!GOAT
sirclahan 2 years ago 2
This guy must be using reverse psychology in his video description. MJ is constantly being doubled and tripled throughout this video. Even without the ball. You can even notice the entire defense collapse on him at certain points. I don't know what planet Jordanhair is from, but this video displays the complete opposite of what his video description states. Call it help defense if you want to, but at the end of the day was it one, two, or three help defenders on MJ?
03svt04 2 years ago
Also, defense is defined as resistance from an attack. And those help defenses [doubles, triples] look exactly like what they are attempting to resist. But obviously to no avail, the GOAT still dropped 53 against these help defenses [doubles, triples]!
03svt04 2 years ago
the GOAT dropped 81 too
Indianbrkdncer 2 years ago
Comment removed
jimmychuang 2 years ago
He wasn't even the greatest Laker when he won "his" first two championships.
VinmanMJ23 2 years ago
@VinmanMJ23 He wasn't the best player on his team when he won his 5th.Gasol got robbed for that MVP
loepower 1 year ago
Description is obviously ironic.
marcelobesch 2 years ago
Jordan was a beast he was doubled and tripled team and still managed 57 pts. one word "Amazing"
muteol 2 years ago 4
hah, another dagger in the heart of people claiming all MJ's faced is isolation defense, and never faced triples, or zones, or got doubled without the ball. Jordan faced EVERY type of defense Kobe faces, and more! MJ is the GOAT
utfanatic2000 2 years ago
see when you double team the best player
even if he doesnt make the shot anyway you leave others open for easy passes and offensive rebounds
you cant play against a jordan-type player without a single person that can atleast hold him in the 20s
and i understand how hard that is but
its even more of an advantage for his team when they have to double someone
GibsonRock4All 2 years ago
help defense is when the guy gets beat so you help. The guy guarding jordan is not getting beat and they still send a guy at him.
that is called doube teaming dude.
cmoney2 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
Smileyyz 2 years ago
Haha, as I watch this video, I notice that HE'S DOUBLED ON ALMOST EVERY POSSESSION.
They run three guys at him more often than they let him go 1 on 1.
You are high or stupid or both.
TBlake34 2 years ago
What's wrong with you man, don't you see the guy's being sarcastic with the description. I mean all you have to do is watch the video..
rrTale 2 years ago
No, I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. I even read the description a few times.
And obviously I watched the video, which is why I commented as i did. But YouTube is full of people dumb enough to post videos that directly contradict their claims.
In my defense I will point out that the comment to this video isn't exactly very clearly written, but I owe the maker an apology if sarcasm was his intent.
TBlake34 2 years ago
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
Smileyyz 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
Smileyyz 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
Smileyyz 2 years ago
For your argument to be at all worth paying attention to, you need to show how GOOD teams played MJ. Watch how Boston and Detroit played him early in his career, and how New York and the other good defensive teams of the 90's ran doubles at him.
And by the way, 2:00, 2:05, 2:20, and many more show him being double teamed. There are 4 DEFENDERS on him at 2:45. The announcers talk about the double team around 2:20.
What's your point again?
TBlake34 2 years ago
To Jordanhair I obviously can't say for sure, but I highly doubt that you would average more than Jordan if you had his height and athletic ability. Especially at the same efficiency as him. He was a genius on the court. Whatever the defense gave him he took it. If you cut off one thing he'd take another. Either way you paid for it. He was relentless.And it took thousands of hours of practice to hone his skill level. Having his body wouldn't make you as good as him, or even good at all.
NewClasick 2 years ago
yeha but athletic ability..
as in skill too
and that jumping and shooting
you know
and it really would be that easy if you made everyone else look like a little kid
GibsonRock4All 2 years ago
if kobe would be defended like this at this time, considering there is no off. 3 sec & illegal handcheck, hell probably have a FG% no higher than .35
dyep29 2 years ago
oh im sorry i mean def. 3 sec
dyep29 2 years ago
the defense in jordan's era for me(opinion) was tighter because there were no defensive 3 seconds and handchecking was not yet banned at that time, and their defense is just as good as today or maybe before was more brutal compared to now.
spellitout2 2 years ago
the description is ironical, right?
marcelobesch 2 years ago
Rofl. WTF do you think double / triple team is? when a player/s leaves the player/s he/they are defending to come help defend vs an offensive player their teammate is guarding simple as that. At least learn something if you're going to criticize MJ. I mean not to be dissing the poster of this video but seriously. What you call "help defense" is better than any defense played now a days.
Vinod222 2 years ago
And if you don't believe MJ was the most double/triple teamed player in NBA history. Look at the "The Jordan Rules".... seriously the pistons created a separate set of plays rules etc w/e you wanna call it just to defend MJ and eventually he overcame that too.
Vinod222 2 years ago
Jordan was the best... simply. No kobe, no Lebron... No matter what ignorant people will say.
If Jordan played nowadays, he would problaby score 40 points per game.
alessdiavolo 3 years ago
anyone who thinks kobe is even close to michael is an absolute moron. jordanhair = lower IQ than me.
ihateuutube 3 years ago
This video was titled that to "Show" all of the double & triple teaming of MJ during these days..
The title is just the "hook"..the video itself debunks the MYTH that these dumb kobe homers try to use & hide behind when they use that silly "MJ played against 1 on 1 coverage" line..
blackadam06 3 years ago
so so true...jordanhair is a moron this video even shows jordan being double teamed and he says the video "proves" he wasnt....he doesnt deserve the name "jordan" as part of his account name
romadkern 2 years ago
beautiful footage
thankss =D
myVIdZ25 3 years ago
(at 0:40) HOLY SHIT!
shizzlepecks 3 years ago
LOL the announcers have sooo little enthusiasm
boom baby... haha
xRenzokukenx 3 years ago
damn i got dizzy
supra2310 3 years ago
DOUBLE TEAMED PLAYERS(ROBINSON HAKEEM WERE DOUBLE TEAMED without having the ball so i dont see how can number3*8 did that before they)...
Shaq was double and triple teamed when he was at LA thats why Kobe had a lot of easy shots...
lagosdre 3 years ago
today's NBA players dont eve move their hands & feets. Just look at this video, Hands & bodies are flying everywhere. every MJ move is contested if not challenged. Its impossible to even comprehend how MJ dominated this physical era despite being skinny & having height around 6-6. He was way too special
mnkhan2020 3 years ago 2
That was because MJ was as physically gifted as they come. He said he didn't even train his legs yet without weights he jumped 10 inches higher than KB (48in vs 38in). Besides that, MJ was one of the strongest players in the league pound for pound. Imagine with all the conditioning and machines they have now.
LorenzoCastillo7 3 years ago 2
The league is weak today. Jordans era hands down the toughest era. Look up Ron harper interview.
MJisKingKobesuckss 3 years ago
ROFL the entire team is trying to stop him. You can't fucking stop Mike, he's fucking undeniable. He did this shit against the toughest fucking rugged defense. Keep in fucking mind, this is 1987, THIS WAS HIS THIRD YEAR PEOPLE. HE DROPPED 37PPG THAT YEAR WHILE SHOOTING 48% oh..and uh 3 steals, 5 assists, and 5 boards. FUCKING BEAST.
zodiiak 3 years ago 15
those are impressive stats. But he won all the championships with lesser stat which again tells us the game is a team game. I will never judge a player with his stats. But the way he leads his team. Kobe/jordan are almost the same for me king of their time but still jordan are the man. No disrespect to kobe just that gasol/bynum/odom just never step up in crutial time. Kobe did what ever he could to create chances for those bastards to get 20 points per game.
0168196250 3 years ago
"Kobe/jordan are almost the same for me king of their time"
For MJ yes, but U can't say that about kobe & maintain a straight face LOL!!
If kobe's been the "king of his time", then "WHERE IN THE HELL" are the individual & team accolades that PROVE what you're saying?
He hasn't been the most dominant player of this era! I could say that about Tim Duncan B4 I could about kobe! Where's kobe's MULTIPLE titles, MVP's or Finals MVP's that PROVES his dominance?
Lem'me know when U wake up..
blackadam06 3 years ago
haha. ok ok. you might be rite. but still kobe dont have a true supporting cast. gasol and odom is way too soft in the final last year. Wit the way vujacic defend ray allen in the final, even MJ cant do much. Remember kobe's team have alot of open three from kobe's play. I have to give credit to kobe. It would have been different with Eddie house/posey/horry/kerr/fox. His team is just not ready for a championship.
0168196250 3 years ago
B4 the Finals, everyone said the lakers had the BETTER team & bench, but then they started gettin' served & then everyone turned on kobe's supporting cast, like it was ENTIRELY their fault..
This is the problem I have with kobe fans.
I ALWAYS find it funny how kobe fans diss Lebron because he & his team lost to the Celtics by saying "His" individual performance was the cause. But when U look at kobe's poor showing vs them, kobe fans blame his "Teamates" LOL!!
blackadam06 3 years ago
i agree man kobe might be the most skilled, but he's not the most dominant. since jordan left the most dominant has been duncan followed by oneal.
imsljr420 3 years ago
More "skilled" than who?
blackadam06 3 years ago
u do realize that shaq came before duncan and is way more dominate
markgramenz 2 years ago
shaq dominated for 3 straight yrs. (when they won their titles) duncan has been dominating since 99 & has more accomplishments (well just 1 more legue mvp)
imsljr420 2 years ago
very nice clip, how many times did MJ got doubled, lol
accepttrue 3 years ago
you have 1 game from his rookie season. The defense of the late 80's early 90's is 100% tougher than today. David Stern took away the hand check rule to create a more offense orientated game. You can barely touch a guy now and its a foul. Its a joke really. Michael played during a time with more hall of famers than ever. Argue all you want....you ask 1000 people who the best ever is 95% of them will tell you MJ....no doubt
bridogg23 3 years ago 5
One thing I noticed during last night's game is Kobe's ability to dribble into double teams. He'd dribble not to an open space, but to a location where a defender was close too. I noticed this time and time again last night, where the help defender didn't switch off or close the lane, HE DRIBBLED INTO THEM. I couldn't believe it, this happened at least 3 times.
andgar923 3 years ago 10
you are absolutely right
accepttrue 3 years ago 2
Yes, I've noticed the very same thing. You can see it too on some of the highlight videos on youtube, one in particular sticks out, where he has the ball just right of the FT line, dribbles into a double team and is forced into the corner where he jacks up a three-pointer. Yes, he makes the low-percentage shot but that's not the point. He should have easily (with his great athletic skills) been able to cut it inside and have a relatively open lane to the basket. No comparison.
Fantumh 3 years ago 2
Jordan just had an incredible ability to get thru the seams of the defense like no other. There has never been a player like jordan ever who could get to a hole so quickly and be able to manuever on a dime. I know a guy who used to play pick-up in chicago with jordan in his prime, and he said he was blown away by how much Jordan can cover so quickly...He was just too long and quick for defenses to get to him fast enough to prevent the penetration most of the time.
bwink23 3 years ago 3
if jordan was laying the ball up and dunking it all the time wouldn't his field goal percentage look more like shaq's? jordan was an exceptional jumpshooter who had the option of penetrating defenses do to his speed and ability to read defenses...but make no mistake about he was a jumpshooter
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago 2
he had an amazing shot percentage.
he was mid range. But he took some extremely hard shots that he made.
kingshahine 3 years ago
for the simple fact he's visually quicker than all of the perimeter players who play today....and the fact that they cannot control him with their hands or by playing him up close an personal. jordan would be laying the ball up much more than he did in the 80s and 90s. people are under this illusion that jordan layed up and dunked all his points eventhough jordan's career field goal percentage says otherwise.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago 2
I've always compared MJ to a 6'6 Iverson, in regards to his speed. As shown in this vid, the lane was always clogged and he rarely had any lanes in which to penetrate. Even when he broke past a double, he was met with ANOTHER double or triple. Help defenders were quicker to switch since his teammates weren't respected and he had never played with a decent big man that drew defenders.
andgar923 3 years ago 3
none of the so called "great perimeter" players of today who are said to be able to score like jordan can't shoot 50 plus percent while scoring over 30 a game. jordan's field goal percentage would increase drastically in this era of basketball...if he played in his prime.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
jordan could score from all over the court his scoring average is a product of his shot attempts...just like any other scorer. what made jordan extra special was the fact he scored all those points while shooting over 50percent....which was fuckin sick.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
in jordan's day guys specialized in defense... because it was promoted by coaches and the league. nowadays if a teams wants to play defense you better have a rep for playing it or else your going to be in foul trouble all game long.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
i want someone to name me a motherfucker who is a great defensive player in this era? there is none...not bruce fuckin bowen who is 100 years old...not washed up ron artest not shane battier...and not ben wallace.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
There's decent defenders, but not great. And ironically enough, the so called great defenders like Bowen, Artest, and Battier AREN'T athletic or tall. They play what would be considered normal defense in MJ's era. And they couldn't be as physical or have the consistent "team" help.
andgar923 3 years ago 2
they were known for their defense...the west only had a few good defensive teams like the spurs and rockets...other than that it was usually a track meet out there. for morons to suggest jordan didn't destory the best defensive teams is madness.....jordan didn't get any breaks on defense like these perimeter players of today.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
fuck he was incredible. Most athletic and fundamentally sound player ever.
jiggity99 3 years ago 2
Help defense = Double/Triple team
Double/Triple team = Help defense
get it right
johnlee766 3 years ago
This post is correct.
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
OMG!!! great vid!!!!.. I mean crappy vid.
FUCK YOU.. LOOOLLLL
andgar923 3 years ago
Notice Phil's comment on MJ being DOUBLED and TRIPLED:
Phil Jackson on Jordan, Kobe: ""I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled."
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
Notice Phil's comment about Kobe ISOLATING:
Phil Jackson on Kobe, training camp 2007:
"I kind of told him he's had off the last couple of years," Jackson said. "He's just kind of hedged on there in the wing, and hung out and played one-on-one, and pick and choose. I think our offense needs to have him as a distributor. He needs to get that mind-set back about being a playmaker and distributor. He's had his opportunity in scoring and being a great scorer."
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
You can find a game and edit Kobe isolating all day long. FACT is, you can find TONS of instances of Jordan being doubled, tripled, and trapped. He was throughout his career. And no, doubling did not begin with Kobe, educate yourself.
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
You should not take the description too serious :)
triklops 3 years ago
Apparently not! hah. I was watching a Jordan rookie season game last night vs. the Lakers, and the announcers were saying that most teams, in Jordan's ROOKIE season, had to double him to even slow him down.
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
Why is this speeded up. Look closely.
Bonzikow 3 years ago
Jordanhair said that the video is sped up a bit after 6:05 due to a software error.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
The video looks a bit quicker(around 3%) in the youtube .
But It's still very quick in normal speed
Jordanhair 3 years ago
rrTale, I believe you're mistaken. I've read in numerous books that, prior to MJ, only Wilt had scored 50+ in 3 consecutive games. Kobe has since done it in 4 straight, but I never heard Baylor's name mentioned. I could be wrong, though, if you have a source.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
"The last Laker with three consecutive 50-point games was Hall of Famer Elgin Baylor in December 1962. Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain are the only other players with three straight 50-point games. Chamberlain has the record with seven consecutive 50-point games, which he did in December 1961."
ESPN article on Bryant extending his 50 point streak to 3 games.
rrTale 3 years ago
Yes,Elgin Baylor scored 50,50 and 53 pts in December 1962
Jordanhair 3 years ago
(cont.) Payton, Cheeks, Alvin Robertson, Moncrief, Pippen, Jordan, Cooper, DJ, Majerle, Pressey, McCray, Reid, McKey, Sprewell, McMillan, Rodman, Dumars, Starks, Gerald Wilkins, Newman...the list of good/great defenders is endless. And on top of all these great defenders, as you can see from this video and others, Jordan was doubled/trapped/swarmed more than any player of his era, and more than all but a couple in history (Wilt/Shaq). That he still produced the way he did is amazing.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
Also, I do believe that the quality of man to man defense was equal or superior from '85-'96 than it has been from '04-'09. Part of that is the increased physicality permitted, and part of it is that defenders needed to be able to contain their man better because of no zone and lesser team defenses. The individual defensive players at the PG/SG/SF spots in Jordan's era have not been matched imo (continued)
jordanlover23 3 years ago
Jordan would still shoot 4-6+% above league average FG% every year from age 22-33, by the way.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
By the way, like SPMJ, I believe that the best defense was played between 1993-2004. It was the best blend of physical defense and good/great team defense. I too believe that Jordan would be the same exact player today on slightly lower FG% (his TS% may remain virtually unchanged since he'd be getting to the line 11+ times each year; at any rate, it'd be above 59.0% TS in his best years).
jordanlover23 3 years ago
Glad you said this, jl23. Since it's coming from you people will take it a lot more seriously. To me the "MJ would average 40+ ppg today" talk(a belief held by a lot of people who post here) is just as bad as the BS spewed by KB42PAH and clowns like him.
SPMJ 3 years ago
btw for jordan to average 40 ppg he would have to attempt over 30 plus shots....so unless he's willing to do that he's not going to average than many points. jordan could have averaged that many points in his era if he was allowed to attempt that many shots like wilt and elgin baylor were.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
Beyond all the selective editing liberties taken in KB24PAH's video; beyond the fact that he condensed an entire SERIES worth of plays into one 10 minute video, there is this: people like KB24PAH don't want you to remember that WE SAW KOBE UNDER MAN-TO-MAN RULES FOR THE FIRST 8 YEARS OF HIS CAREER (1997-2004). Kobe was not some sort of world-beater under man-to-man rules either in the regular season or playoffs, despite having Shaq to draw defensive attention. He was great, but not Jordan great.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
i have many arguements about kobe and since u brought up this ill gladly point out that kobe has never hit 50% from the floor. kobe played with shaq for 6 years and spent that time shooting wide open jumpers off of shaq double teams. not once he hit 50%. phil jackson has said kobe has better shooting skills and yet he cant hit half his shots playing with shaq?
dv122 3 years ago
Also, something that's often overlooked about the difference in defense between then and now is that back then, you could hard trap players without getting called for touch fouls. This meant that you could more easily get the ball OUT OF a player's hands. Nowadays, if you try to hard trap, all the offensive player has to do is keep dribbling around or faking and they'll eventually get a whistle. This happens a LOT. This means you can't take star players out of the game (figuratively) as much.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
its alot harder for big men these days. the perimeter players have benefited the most with the rule changes that started in the 1999-2000 season which has evolved to this day. players have no chance at guarding chris paul,tony parker and other quick guards that can penetrate with ease and we see the rise in productivity of these players. the center position and defense has become extinct
dv122 3 years ago
dv122, Jordanhair was being sarcastic with his description. The intent of the video is clear.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
oh i see. oops. i admit i didnt watch the video i just read the description
dv122 3 years ago
WTH?
rrTale 3 years ago
Keep in mind that Jordan had 53 points this game. He averaged 37.1 ppg this year along with 2.9 steals/1.5 blk (first player ever to record 200+ stl/100+ blk in the same season). He did it against defenses much like this. This was the third consecutive game where he had 50+ points, which at that time had only been done once in history. The energy he exerted in every game was phenomenal, and is something that tends to get overlooked about him.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
this video is trying to say jordan played under lighter defense which is absurd. thats what this video is trying to demonstrate. the rules and how they let players play then is far more difficult to score in that time. theyre making up facts to support their case of kobe is better. just look at the rules and loot at the stats and i shows 2 things. it shows jordan put up his numbers in tougher conditions and that his numbers are better. this video is a pathetic attempt and trying to show
dv122 3 years ago
jordan faced easier defenses
dv122 3 years ago
Agree with everything you said jordanlover just wanted to correct one small thing. By the time MJ did his 50 point streak in '87 two players had achieved this already - Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor.
rrTale 3 years ago
Another correction, this was the first of his 50 point game streak
rrTale 3 years ago
Is this guy being sarcastic?
Blackwwoolff 3 years ago
Which guy are you refering to?
rrTale 3 years ago
The video description on the right.
Blackwwoolff 3 years ago
Lol yeah man dont worry he's being sarcastic.
rrTale 3 years ago
mie and dv he was joking.WTF is dv122 talking about?He was being sarcastic
juju100000 3 years ago
i saw you posted a link on pahs page, i will do the same
mikester8821 3 years ago
Like SPMJ said, I'm not sure where this myth that Jordan played 1-on-1 all day came from. Like he said, were teams stupid? Did they just NOT want to double-team the most dangerous scorer in the league, and possibly in history? The reason why at times it looks easy for Jordan is because he was MUCH more adept than a guy like Kobe at reading defenses and exploiting double-teams by going away from them, splitting them, or beating them with his passing. He also always attacked more quickly than KB.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
exactly!!
dv122 3 years ago
What year was this video. I liked it but i do agree with dv122 that help D and double team are pretty much the same thing in my eyes.
mikester8821 3 years ago
because i saw Jordan get doubled on the perimter like 4-6 times, and if that is "help D" then I consider them to be the same thing.
mikester8821 3 years ago
I love how u showed his misses and TO.The problem with the other vids is they only show is highlights and not when he got doubled and pushed without the ball.5/5
juju100000 3 years ago
This video perfectly demonstrates the double-teaming, trapping, and sometimes outright swarming that Jordan had to deal with his entire career, especially pre-first retirement (and even mmore so pre-1991, which, amazingly, is when he had his most productive statistical seasons). I've always maintained that Jordan is the most double-teamed perimeter player in history by a good margin, and the only other player I've seen doubled as much consistently throughout his career is Shaq.
jordanlover23 3 years ago
good fing work man best vid of the 80s defense.seriously u have Goat editing
juju100000 3 years ago
this video is ridiculous. help defense is the same thing and double teaming someone. mr jordanhair pls tell me the difference of the two? in both ur have 2 ppl on u. this video is ridiculous! this is a typical anti jordan and pro kobe video in which they have to make up facts in order to prove kobe is better. since all the stats show jordan is better ur trying to make up things to show kobe plays in a harder league and thats why jordans numbers are better
dv122 3 years ago
help defense and double teamed are THE SAME THING!! ur shooting with 2 ppl on u. some pls tell me what this video is trying to prove? double teaming is the same thing as help defense. wtf?
dv122 3 years ago
I wanna thank you Jordanhair for taking the time to make this video. Great stuff
rrTale 3 years ago
Great video Jordanhair. I see you've take it upon yourself to enlighten the idiots out there.
Honestly, either you've to be mentally retarded or blind to not see how MJ was truly guarded back in his day. Why would teams not double him?? Are they just stupid? You'd have to be to not double 1 of the 3 most destructive offensive forces of all time. I just don't understand where the "MJ was guarded 1-on-1 by 6'2 guys his entire career" talk comes from.
SPMJ 3 years ago
Of course you know. His name is KB42PAH the kiddies brainwasher. His man crush on KB is sickening. Since KB can stack up to Jordan's accomplishments then "its gotta be the weak D Jordan faced! It just gotta!"
IMO Jordan isnt just "1 of the 3 most destructive offensive forces of all time". He's THE most destructive of them all - dominates at 6'6" SG, complete arsenal of moves and shots while maintaining an astounding efficiency in a tougher defensive era. No one has beaten that.
rrTale 3 years ago 3
I actually don't think MJ played in a tougher defensive era. The best defense was played from the mid 90's till about the middle part of the current decade. That doesn't change the fact MJ was doubled all the fucking time. He would still be the same player today, with slightly lower percentages.
SPMJ 3 years ago
Wow that's odd.. You're a knowleadgeable fan and not those idiots we see everyday, so im just gonna respect your opinion and leave it at that.
rrTale 3 years ago
i disagree!! the toughest defense was played from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. how can u say to the moderen era!! they started cleaning up the game and making it more offensive minded in 1990-2000 season. it has evolved to what it is today.just look at the rule changes starting then till now. what reason do have for saying defenses are tougher now? can u list rules?
dv122 3 years ago
the best defense in nba history was played from 89 to 98 end of story....what motherfuckers don't seem to get about jordan is the fact that he played against the eastern conference defense...which has always been more rugged than western conference defense. teams like the knicks,bucks,pistons,celtics,pacers these teams all played in the east not the west.
wafflelrontmacsplat 3 years ago
Just listen to comment at 6:30 raise the volume. Jordan always had 2 or 3 people hanging him the whole time. Listen to ron harper interview when he said Jordan is the best ever cause of the era he played in saying you could fight in this era. Remember when Jordan was young he always attacked the rim with 3 or 4 people in the lane cause there is no defensive 3 seconds.
MJisKingKobesuckss 3 years ago
I was a little "shocked" reading your description but now I get it... you are being ironic :)
Is that game video in normal speed ???
triklops 3 years ago
After 6:56,the speed become a little quicker because of some problems of software.
Jordanhair 3 years ago
ok. Jordan was really fast as a Jaguar !!!!!
Thanks for the upload !!!
I don't get why people think the defense was not as hard back in the days...just because the shorts looked funny on some guys :)
triklops 3 years ago
quick observation from this video.
1. he rotates the ball before the double team comes.
2. he drives to the hoop before a double team can develop.
For someone who has an ability to average 8 assists per game (1989) wouldn't you think twice before doubling him.
example. 1997 finals, game 6. russell and stockton doubled MJ. He finds Kerr for a wide open game winning fieldgoal. 1998 finals, game 6. single coverage vs russell, hits the game winner. either way, MJ wins. peace.
rsx2 3 years ago
They always let MJ shoot freethrows uncontested. :)
RR0849 3 years ago
hahahha
the zone and the modern day advanced defense doesn't allow this on Kobe tho.
andgar923 3 years ago
Read my comments below. Modern day defense is not more "advanced" and due to rule changes meant explicitly to increase perimeter scoring, it's far easier to be an effective perimeter scorer today (i.e. handchecking banned, many more ticky tack fouls calls, less physical play allowed on the perimeter). As well, true zones do not exist today.
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
FYI, last night Kobe was isolating 1-on-1 on the perimeter and down to the FT line against 6'1", 190lb Anthony Carter of Denver.
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
Oddly enough, he was doing the best defensive job on him. His speed was making Kobe work hard to get position or the ball. If he had any type of team help and was allowed to be physical, it would've been a different outcome. Since thanks to KPAH, we know Kobe can't deal with physical play.
andgar923 3 years ago
That's the whole point, a small guy can do a decent job defending Kobe one on one, in isolation plays. Kobe fans say defenders today are bigger, faster, stronger...not true at all, and last night was a great example. They also say Kobe isn't allowed to isolate, and last night was a great contradiction of that premise.
utfanatic2000 3 years ago
Basically. But to be fair, one game isn't the tell all, but it does serve as an example and an proof of our argument.
andgar923 3 years ago
I never said one game was the tell all, it is just a bit of evidence, and an example. Truth is, Kobe has it far easier on offense today, with far less physical play allowed, perimeter handchecking banned, and fouls called much more readily. That's why Phil Jackson said a couple years ago of a prime MJ, "Michael would average 45 a night under these rules."
utfanatic2000 3 years ago 4
81 playa
mikeisLA 1 year ago
@mikeisLA 81? Against the worst defense in the league, with lots of pts scored in garbage time, completely abandoning the team concept, in a regular season game. I'd much rather have 6 rings, 6 finals mvps, 5 mvps, 70 nba records including 63 in a playoff game against the world champs and #1 team in the league. Jordan GOAT
utfanatic2000 1 year ago
@mikeisLA
Love how Kobe fans bring that up. Jordan wouldve scored 90+ on that same defense.
hvillio22 1 year ago