No Apologies #86 - Explanation of Justification

[punkyjunior895]

@newfrontier01 you have made a classical error in logic and unfortunately has made you agnostic. There is a teaching called "correlation doesn't mean causation" please read about it on wikipedia. We can do this for everything even non religious topics.

[JuiceJapan]

While we differ in ideologies, I admire and respect your dedication and methods of study and teaching. Peace.

[Deuteron20]

Hey Timotheos, from what I gather, there is not much difference between what protestants like Paul Washer believe and what Fr. Rumble is saying. Notably, the difference is that, in the reformed view, a person who does not have faith and works proves he was never justified by faith in the first place. The Catholics do not suppose this; the person just forfeited the process. Both agree that justification means subjective righteousness.

[Deuteron20]

I would conclude that a once-for-all justification by faith is the foundation of a life lived in obedience to Christ and the apostles. Subjective righteousness is experienced as part of the "justification package." However, the righteousness we experience does not attain to the glory of God, i.e., it does not match Christ's perfection in the flesh under law. In the end, we are saved by grace, that is, we are saved by the same Gospel that we believed when we began our journey to sanctification.

[Deuteron20]

Couldn't a once-for-all justification be the foundation for a life lived in obedience to Christ and the apostles? What I am getting from this video and other sources is that Christ's work apart from us takes on a subjective form through the Holy Spirit of grace, effecting our transformation. This seems correct. However, how righteous do we have to become to be justified by God?

[3Michael82]

cool

[exodusx599]

When will Catholics ever learn the difference between justification and sanctification...

[TimotheosCauvin]

It should be mentionend that Protestants believe that true and saving faith is inevatibly followed/accompanied by the processes of regeneration and sanctification. Though one is justified the moment one belives the rest of life also is -- with God's grace -- a time of growing in holiness. If it's not, there is no saving faith in the first place.

[Deuteron20]

@TimotheosCauvin ctd. From what James says, I would judge that Catholic theology has the upper hand because the Catholics take the verses for what they actually say. Others interpret "that faith," which is without works, to be a non-saving faith that never secured God's once-for-all justification in the first place. The question is now, "How righteous do we have to be?" since both Catholics and protestants believe in the renewing work of the Holy Spirit.