I am not Muslim. I am educated enough to understand the difference between a radical Muslim and a Peace Loving Muslim. Same goes for knowing the difference between radical Christians and Peace Loving Christians. In the USA Radical Christians are known to terrorize "non-believers". They have killed people just as the radical Muslims have killed people. In my heart I believe that any one who is a true believer in God, will not want to harm another person. God is Love. God is Peace. God is freedom.
I fought in Iraq in 2004. I met many good men while I was there, their religion did not matter. They went to work, took care of their families, and did the best they could given the environment they lived in. Had Russia or China for some reason come to our country and did the same thing, I wouldn't do any different, I'd fight them. For that, I do not blame Iraqis.
Americans would rather tell you to fuck off then learn something and thats why americans are the dumbest bastard on the earth, Just watch the response this with get and it's proved.
People do the damage when, where, how and in whichever manner
they please, and they put Muslim names out on the media, thereby getting away with
their crime and directing your hate and action towards Muslims.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, save us from ignorance and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
Uh huh, we're all very grateful to you for the evidence you just provided us with that has enlightened us and led us to the truth. Its all right, don't sweat it, you need some rest now after all that hard work of evidence collection. Like I said, time to go back to your cage. Good day or night, whichever.
Need I say more? Its evident for eerybody to see what kind of a culture you come from. I'm sorry kid you're mistaken, we're not fmiliar with your kind of culture which you just described, and I would just be lowering my standards,if I replied to any more of your posts, as you clearly showed your culture and backround. Welcome to any adults out there. May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
If I say - We've never met and our family doesn't live in cages. You just admitted you live in a cage, so who's mom could it be? I dare say it - its easy to shut your mouth in your own style. But that's hardly the way to go. It seems to me that you're intentionally indulging in garbage talk in order to provoke others to talk the same way. Please refain from it. May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
Its forbidden for Muslims to marry a whole range of relatives, in which sisters are mentioned in the relations described in The Glorious Qur'an in many places. May Allah save us from ignorance and the evil of ignorant people, Aameen
@docsheji well i agree with that. let the almighty keep us on the straight path, but you are a good muslim as you have twisted the truth to fit your own need. just like the hadith says "Telling flattering lies to make peace is OK! "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Bukhari vol.3:857 p.533"
You're going into a whole new range of discussions, which has such lengthy explanations that they simply cannot be put in these little comment boxes. Firstly, come out clearly with what your question means. Do you only reject Islam or are you an athiest in general?
Once again you have proved that you are only capable of going around in circles to try and prove your point. Please watch this video of Dr. Jerald Dirks and you'll see what I mean -
Titled --- "From Jesus to Muhammad: A History of Early Christianity" on youtube itself.
His credentials - Joined Harvard as Freshman at 17, 2-semester course in comparative religion....
...Worked as Minister of 2 United Methodist churches in
rural Kansas,where attendance soared to heights not seen in those churches for several years,following graduation from Harvard Divinity School.YES,HE'S ONE THE MOST QUALIFIED IN THE
CHRISTIAN WORLD TO DELIVER A LECTURE SUCH AS THIS. PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO AND STOP BEING
BLINDED BY THE FAKE PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN EVANGELISTS OR ANYBODY ADVOCATING
CHRISTIANITY.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, Aameen.
Please also visit the website "answering-christianity(dot)com" to get a detailed insight into what has confused you your whole life.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it and protect us from all evil and all devious plots and ploys at all times, Aameen
amount of copies,-and are dated back to the first century.
This man has not "discovered" something everybody else has not.!.-)
Remember: I was NOT a christian earlier, but Jesus revealed Himself to me in the most amazing way.
And by then, I had NOT been talking to any priest or gone to church!
I'm not blinded by "fake people", I met with the risen Christ, and I know from the bottom of my heart that Jesus is as He said, the living Son of God!
Bro, we quote credentials for a reason. If a Christian Minister defended Christianity there would be no surprise at all. But this man, who happens to be from the top most level of learning on the topic from the institution of the highest repute in the world and the highest level of standards and the strictest adherence to quality, can't come out with non-sense. Furthermore, half his batch walked out after realizing the truth, wasn't just him. This was definitely God's plan
He was a dispassioned Christian for quite a long time before he discovered the truth of Islam. He's one among many High Priests and Ministers who came to Islam from many parts of the world. You can't just come out the blues and say "HE'S WRONG BECAUSE I SAY SO!!!". Try and back yourself with something substantial and let everybody know the source of your fallacious info, if you have it in you,so that we can check it up for ourselves.Otherwise don't bother commenting, you'll expose urself further
@docsheji No, you are in for a rude shock. You ought to watch Walid Shoebat's Prophecy 101 and see for yourself. I would rather be Christian and risk fake islamic hell (which is the only reason you believe in islam) than live in jannah and be raped by muslim men for eternity. Islam is not peaceful and mohammed was evil. I have read the quran and hadiths and could never believe it is from God.
Dude-- Just a suggestion..Just improve your English..Your video really a bizarre due to your poor English ...otherwise just speak with your own (first) language
Its high time you all stop your dirty games, be God-fearing, and seek the truth sincerely. May Allah guide us all to the straight path, keep us steadfast on it, and protect us from all evil, Aameen
And by the way, "Allah knows best" is said out of humility towards, the Supremacy of Allah. AMAZING!!! You're the personification of Ignorance. Oh, and what do you and Scholarship have in common? I asked you to watch a video of a Harvard Scholar, but you insist on whining and caling him a liar, as well.. Denial??? Its clear by now, that that's you're side of the story. Rebuttal?? Don't make me laugh. You've got nothing!!!
Ps. He is not a scholar, as said further down. There must be a hundred thousand plus scholars in the USA alone if having a masters makes you so (which it doesn't)
I have a degree in Theology and Biblical History - you get your info from googling? Yep, I am clearly ignorant.
Ps. I never called that Jerald Dirk (I think his name?) a liar. I did say he is not a scholar, having a masters does not make you a scholar. Even man and his dog has one if they have studied.
Just remind me - where should I get my info? Ok that's right - google. Cause everything on google and wikipedia is right (so long as you believe in is doc)
dochsheji please get a job haba see the way you have spammed this whole comment with your reply. Having been an Ex Muslim myself, I believe Islam hardens people earth. It increases hatred.
That is why you see Muslims engaging in terrorism these days. I am happy my family is no more in this evil religion of a thing.
I can see your heart is hardened through Islam
I appeal to everyone out there, please don't engage in any religion that promotes hatred.
Yusuf Estes is a good one for this - a guy who had played some music in church claims to be an authority on Christian theology yet makes continual mistakes in Christian theology.
It is funny that muslims are desperate to show 'fake muslims' (ohh... he says Allah different - he can't be muslim, just ignore say they are persian - not arabic)
I have seen numerous of these and see the 'reasons' and they are normally pathetic.
I could actually say exactly the same with many of the Islamic converts stories. References to non existant Christian theology, misunderstood theology.
Is that why and huge subsection of conversion in america comes from Jails? disenfranchised angry african american young men that can be taken advantage of.
Also lets stand in denial that the Bible in fact has been concretely recognised by Christians as their scripture well before muhammad. That muhammad tells Christians and Jews to go to their scriptures.
YEP the same ones we have today. Unfortunately he does not want to admit that muhammad believed in the inspiration of the Bible yet he does not.
What grade are you and what are you trying to pull off here. Do you really think people are so gullible as to fall for your cheap games?? What do you think you even know about the Bible? If there's one thing you've learnt from it its what you accuse other people of doing, and everybody knows by now, what that is. You don't even need to to travel to get the info they require now, its all over the internet. A simple googleing would give you away. You're unbelievable!!!
No I mean what you call the truth. Look bro, by any standards, you can't defend the lied you utter. I asked you to mention the name of a Scholar many times, but you fail to respond, I gave you sources for the answers of your illogical claims, but you don't respond. You say you're a Biblical Scholar, but you don't seem to know that much, gathering from what you've input. You blurt lies about Islam, and can't prove them. What does that say about you?
"No real scholar from Al Azhar left or would leave Islam..."
For a start Christianity is not paganism, not even muhammad believed so WHY DO YOU?
Secondly - your argument is only emotional not logical. I could use the same argument and say "no real Christian would leave..." and you would not accept that either.
Thirdly: THEY HAVE - it is a fact. Some to Christianity and some simply to unbelief.
Does it make you feel insecure that some high placed scholars have left Islam?
1. The Injil (or Gospel) was the common name of the Christian scriptures well before Islam (as is known to this day)
FACT
Christians were encouraged to go to their scriptures by Muhammad. We have the SAME as HUNDREDS of years before Muhammad FACT
2. It is clear Muhammad did not know NO Christians believe Mary is God - The Jews do NOT believe Ezra is the Son of God (some small random group in yemen actually reinforces the Quran is only a product of Muhammads limited understanding)
And malign it with false information. Cowards like you have nothing, , no truth, no character, no argument, no real knowledge. All you do is attack from behind when nobody's watching, break treaties unilaterally, spread false information hoping to lure gullible people into your trap. You have nothing, and, therefore, aren't worried about losing anything. We have everything in terms of guidance and information, and therefore, will try to protect it. Losers like you have no value anywhere
As long as you post lies about Islam in an open forum, there will be Muslims to defend it, so there. Just because you're characterless and want to malign the truth, doesn't mean Muslims have to sit there and take it. We will reply and if you can't deal with that then go take a walk. You have no argument, so stop your garbage talk and get out of here instead of wasting space.
Bro, what you just posted is so utterly laughable. If you can't even read what's written in a post straight, what would you read from scholarly books.
Ok-
1-The Bible is an utterly distorted and manhandled book, with no records of who put in what there. Nobody till today know who is the author of almost the entire book. You really REALLY have to get your facts straight.
2-There will be people everywhere who disbelieve and that's a fact, but there's no real argument against either the authenticity or the historicity or literary prowess or the scientific accuracy or anything else regarding the Qur'an. World experts and pioneers in various fields have personally testified to this. This is a well-known fact, and another thing that the unbelievers are jealous about that exists only for the Qur'an.
3-Anybody who can read probably knows, by now, who's getting emotional and writing based on it. What I stated is what even a common man knows. You don't even need to be a Scholar for crying out loud.
4-Modern day Christianity is infact paganism which stems from took its form from the pagan Roman culture. Its not the message that the man you call Jesus came with. Another well known common fact. I really don't know where you get your info from, but it'll only make thinking people laugh
4- I REPEAT - No Real Scholar from Al Azhar would leave Islam for paganism. Would anyone willingly throw away the ice-cream in his hand for mud, he'd be crazy to. That simply doesn't happen, and if it did, the guy must've been deluded. Not logical, because that's how much difference there is in the nature of the two. We see many Christians right from the common man, all the way up to Scholars coming to Islam everyday, but never the other way round, so much so that you have to make false .....
And who the fuck are you exactly to tell me what or what not to say? I posted a comment which wasn't directed at you and you acted in defense so guess what, NOBODY NEEDS YOU TO BUTT IN SO BUTT THE FUCK OUT DIPSHIT! Muslims are scum and you just proved so you dirty dishdash wearer.
If Arabic is the so called "heavenly language" why did its so called "prophets" such as Issa and Ibrahim speak "Aramaic", just one of the languages in which the Bible was written in? There is even speculation that the Quran was originally written in Aramaic but because Aramaic was banned in the Muslim world they had to write in the Arabic script, this was later known as the "Garshuni script". The Quran (Qeryana - "A Guide") is read better in Aramaic. ww w . syriacaramaicquran . com
Why do you insist on lying? You say "fact is that Christian scholars have unanimously agreed the Bible is a mix of forgery and probable truth"
I am nearly lost for words as to why someone would say something so ridiculous. I have been taught by many scholars, read many books by scholars and have NEVER heard of a Christian Scholar say anything like such. Oh there are a tiny handful of liberal critics who attack the Bible but they do so to the Quran as well.
Bro, its obvious who's lying & who's not to the educated lot who are fewer in number, but if your propaganda is to the gullible many, then go ahead and keep bickering. You learnt from many scholars??!!! From whom??!!! I doubt if you even know the name of a scholar. You sound more like a teenager with raging hormones and a dishonest background. This is a topic for intellectuals not for somebody like you. And by the way, this might be news for you and every other Christian who feel like being....
...faithful to the Bible should know that if ever you venture into learning the history of the compilation of the Bible and the history of Christianity with utter sincerity,then by the time you reached the highest level of learning,you'd be so disappointed that you would either turn into an atheist or revert to Islam,or in the least leave all the high posts you'd be offered and live the rest of your life like an unbelieving Christian.....
.....Ofcourse if you had other intentions, then it would be a different case altogether. Believe it or not, the Bible is one of the, if not THE MOST UNRELIABLE BOOK ON THE PLANET, and it can hardly be called "The" Bible, because each version differs from the other, not only in translation, content and text, but also in the message. Listen to this lecture given by Dr. Jerald Dirks-
Titled --- "From Jesus to Muhammad: A History of Early Christianity" on youtube.....
It is a pity you fall down to ad hominem arguments.
You have made straight lies and you stay in denial.
It is a lie that 'all Christian scholars have uninmously agreed the Bible is a forgery" (which was said) A matter of fact I have NEVER read nor heard such put forward by any reputable person.
Are you going to repent now for lying? or is lying allowed in Islam?
Face it man...and this is the last comment I am going to post to reply to you because you make me tired lol...If I use this much time to write an essay, it would be a thesis by now...your very stubborn may Allah swt guide you...Islam is what christianity wants to be...and thats the truth...our book is one...as opposed to your bible, which has many differing versions and not just translation differences...your scholars are, to this day, fighting to see which is more authentic..
And its not some random statement...I gave you the link to that source about 1000 replies down lol...And as for Mary peace be upon her, I told you that in God's perception, which is ultimate, praying in someone's name is taking that person as diety...you still dont get it? If sufi muslims pray to graves, they are taking those graves as gods, or intercessors to god...and this is supported all throughout the quran and authentic hadith...
no whilst I agree that Catholics are wrong. They DO NOT, (listen closely) AT ANY TIME believe Mary to be God. They believe that they are asking her to pray to God. Some Muslims (hundreds of millions actually) pray to 'saints' and visit their tombs etc. DO you believe these Muslims (though incorrect under Islam) believe that these 'saints' are Allah?
ugh...You repeat the same arguments so many times...I told you already that some Jews did believe that Ezra was the son of God...And even if it was written through Mohammed's view, lets say I agree with you, his view is certainly not limited...He encountered many, many jews during his lifetime...and most, if not all were Arab, and the message was revealed in arabia...what does that tell you? it tells you that that verse was for them..AND ALLAH SWT KNOWS BEST!!!
You can search it - read the arabic yourself. Are you insecure to see the truth or are you lazy and don't want to turn your head lest you see that the Tafsir (al tabari) clearly shows the Quran states something totally incorrect
You have not shown ANY proof to show it has been corrupted. The Sura 9 verse does not even show such (it talks of those people being illiterate anyway)
How about you read Sura 5:46 - 47 and then 43:63 and ask your self this simple question.
If muhammad thought the Christian and Jewish scriptures were true, and Christian and Jewish Scipture TODAY come from BEFORE the time of Islam - Why do I disagree with him?
You showed that an OBSECURE group of Jews in Yemen might have believed such. Not that 'THE JEWS' believed such.
"THE JEWS" as stated in the Quran have NEVER believed such. FACT, your attempt only shows that the Quran was written through the limited perspective of Muhammads experience and understanding rather than 'being handed down by Allah'
I find it curious that muslims still repeat such things that have no a grain of truth in it. '
THe Christian scriptures are translated from manuscripts HUNDREDS of years older than Islam.
Do you honestly believe that 'the romans government' managed to burned every scripture in the world when the Bible was virtually across the globe, even beyond itss borders. When there were MANY Christians and groups outside the Roman Catholic Organisation?
Don't try todebate like a fool if you have no knowledge of what you speak (which should be pretty obvious to every Muslim and any knowledgeable Christian as well by now).
Why do you make ad hominem statements? Do you honestly thinking throwing mud without any factual basis helps your cause?
FACT:
It has been CLEARLY shown that the Quran incorrectly believes Christians believe Mary is God when NO Christians do
It has been Clearly shown that the Quran incorrectly believes that 'THE JEWS' believe that Ezra is the son of God (and no some random sect only shows that the Quran was written through the hand and understanding of Muhammad)
again...this statement alone proves that you dont know very much about islam, no offense..Then Waylun (woe) to those who write the book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah,'' to purchase with it a little price!). do you want me to quote more???
oh wow...you have the Bible in its original language??? which version, may I ask??? Yes...I can pull up a hundred translations of the Quran, but alhamdulilah, all praise to Allah, for without him preservation is impossible, WE have the original quraishi arabic text...no differing version...you cannot go to a place on earth where two qurans are different, unless it is because of printing error of course lol...like ink spilling or something...
What??? Muhammad did not believe in the corruption of Christian scriptures??? There are tons of verses revealed to him that CLEARLY state that the scriptures have been tampered with...so what are you talking about exactly...the Quran states that it is the verification of that which came before it i.e. the INJEEL not the BIBLE..and the tawrat. not the old testament...And the quran serves as the criterion of truth between them...my friend, please try to think b4 you post
no...you are the one that claims that he says it actually sets into a muddy spring...so provide your proof, if you are truthful...Ibn Kathir is the most renowned of mufasireen...and if you go to qtafsir website, you'l find the interpretation of that ayah...and im sure al tabari says the same inshallah
The quran talks extensively about the Jewish covenants and never mentions Ezra as being there primary diety...Even though I have given you proof that some regarded him as the son of God and is called the "Father of the Jews"...This verse that you sited, says that it is an Utterance...so Arabs, that lived around where the prophet was, used to regard Ezra as such, and that verse described how much they have strayed from Allah's path...And Allah knows best
Oh, and one more thing...most books that iv heard about on the errors in the bible, are from non muslims...athiests mostly...so it is most likely unbiased, although i know some athiests that dont care for the christian faith lol
.....The intelligent creation (like humans) on who Judgement Day is ordained, on the other hand, can do only natural logical things, but has been given the intelligence to distinguish between what is logical and what's not. We have, additionally been given emotional intelligence. These two factors have been provided to us to play a crucial role in determining what is right and what is wrong and through it, to ultimately find our Creator. The non-intelligent creation, however,
has no Judgement Day, and so their life on this Earth is ends with their death, End of story, Period !!! The Almighty is the Provider and there is a unique provision for every aspect of each living thing He's created, by means of which, specifically, they should sustain each portion of themselves. The provision for the Human Mind is intelligent perception, so we must use this to separate what is logical from what's not, what's good fom what's bad, what's right from what's wrong
.....You can find countless examples if you just tink for a moment what would happen if wrong use of a provision is made. Let me just give you an example - If you take a Polar Bear with a thick and furry coat and put it in the hottest desert and think in your mind, "I believe this polar bear will now turn into a porcupine and start flying". The rest of us know its going to die of excess heat because its body wasn't designed live in a desert, so naturally we'll object.
.....That's exactly the basic problem here. Belief of the supernatural also should have an intelligent background of acceptance. If you believe that there is One Unique Supreme Power that Created us all and Governs us all, that's understandable. That's what the Muslim believes. We believe that he's already blessed us with logical and emotional intelligence to make sense of the truth that's out there.
.....Its as simple as that. If something is irreconcileable and erroneous, then its not logical and, therefore cannot be from God. To find this out, we have to get ourselves onto the provision of the vehicle that is intelligence, start it up and make out the difference between the right and wrong routes to finally reach the proper destination. Your Creator has even provided you with the "Signboards" so you don't get lost. The Bible of today is full of errors and man-handling
.....So much so that no 2 Bibles the world are identical. The natural argument against this is that it is not the literal but the inspired word of God. Anybody with a little common-sense and a good and God-fearing heart will see which is the Word of God when they compare any Bible (which doesn't even exist in its original language anymore because of the removal of the blessing from you as a result of blasphemy against The Almighty) and even a trnslation of The Qurán.
.....The phrase, "Inspired Word Of God" can be attributed to a translation, not a transformation. Its common knowledge that the Bible is a product of transformation,and there's no way you can deny that, no matter how hard you try. Its only a matter of time before you reach the Straight Path if you take a step back and focus on using your God-given intelligence in the right manner. Don't be persuaded by any kind of pressure or any knid of emotion.
.....If you give in, then Satan will be waiting with open arms to deceive and mislead you, and you will be led, because although these are the only things he's allowed to do, he's an expert in them, and in fact the H.O.D. of that department. Pray to the One Supreme Power to protect you from the deception of the Devil and to guide you to, and keep you on the Straight Path. May the Almighty bless and guide us all and keep us on the Straight path, Aameen.
youtube it! - yep if that is where you learn from you are likely to get in trouble.
Gospel of barnabas is a FOURTEENTH CENTURY FORGERY - That is FACT
Arian? had his theological views disproved
If you are getting your information from youtube, from every random misinformed person than that is likely your problem. There is good stuff on here but SO MUCH RUBBISH!
80% Americans' hate muslims? what a bull shit is that. WE have mosks on every corner, Major Hassan was promoted after he expressed his radical veiws. This is bull shit. and he is not ex-muslms, he clearly IS muslms. And don't mix politics w religion. WE may support Israel but we don't hate muslims , what a bull shit.
You'd think that somewhere amongst the thousands of words in the bible or whatever you wish to call it that reference to the shape of the earth (ie 'it's round') would have been mentioned!! Perhaps it (the bible thing) was written by man before the discovery was made. Makes you think doesn't it !!
Maybe God didn't realise it was round ..... i don't think so ...... do you?
21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Is 40:21-22
Probably should read the Bible before trying to be an expert on something your don't know.
The FACT is the Bible DID say the Earth was Round before humanity knew
Still doesn't say the planet is 'round' it's just an expression which could be interpreted in different ways. Could the moon have been known as the circle of the earth? I'll have a word with my circle of friends in the magic circle and see what they think. I might even circulate it aROUND. Have another look pal. Better still read Darwin's stuff, now that makes sense or better still listen to Ricky Gervais. Stop being conned!!
Read the responses above - ps. of course I have read 'darwins stuff'' A man trying hard to understand nature yet without the modern understanding to understand its complexity.
Darwin observed the same species of animal on different islands EVOLVING in different ways to be able to adapt to the given surroundings. Why did the animals do that?.
Darwin was an extremely intelligent man who was also religious before he started studying and thinking for HIMSELF.
That snake must have been disappointed when God said you will forever slither (or something). I bet the snake missed his nice flying wings or whatever else he had. Probably evolved into Tony Blair LOL
Actually such is stretching the óbservation'' of Darwin. He observed adaption without the genome of a species, nothing added whatsoever simply selection of certain PRESENT traits.
you're really into this religious stuff and obviously very intelligent with a very strong faith. The only problem with faith is that it could probably be defined as 'belief in something that cannot be proven' I have never seen convincing proof that the bible is what people say it is. What is your strongest argument that it couldn't have been written by man. So much in it can be interpreted in different ways, as it is by different religions. The mormons have some wacky ideas re their 'faith'
I agree that you should rigorously challenge a belief. I (obviously) have no problem with challenge, that is actually why I became a believer in Christ.
Faith is not simply something that cannot be proven (though there is an element)
Do you believe in love?
Carl Sagan said that at the centre of everything is something that cannot be proven.
Can you prove there is no God? If you can't why do you take the Faith step to assume that there is no God (or maybe you don't? - not sure)
I believe man wrote the bible, can you prove me wrong?
Love is abused but exists.
I don't agree with Carl Sagans' comment.
I can't prove there is no God but nobody can prove there is.
Why do people pray to God, is it to ensure a ticket to heaven? If so, is it a case of people looking after number one? Is that selfish? Could it be a test by God to weed out the selfish?
Why are so many religious people child abusers, dishonest, thieves, violent etc etc etc
"Love is abused by exists." - hmmm we certainly agree. I would say the same about faith in God.
The question about Love stands - Can you prove it exists? IF not why do you choose to believe in it? Maybe because you have experienced it, there is easily enough evidence to suggest such beyond reasonable doubt.
Why do people pray to God? Two reasons - In a Christian perspective prayer is primarily just talking. ALL relationships are based upon communication. Why not knowing God?
Simple Question: Is it selfish to talk to your family or friends?
Why are so many religious people abusers etc. I am not an apologist for 'religion' In actual fact I have no problem saying some people consistently follow their religious ideas to evil, others ignore .
I am a believer in Christ - for Christians there are two factors. Some ARE NOT really Christians (Jesus said you would know them by their fruit) the other is none of us are perfect (but Christians should live increasingly Holy)
Question: (Supposing you are an Athiest or Agnostic) What in your worldview makes being dishonest, and abuser, thieving, violent etc. absolutely wrong?
Yes, Life is great. What does that have to do with truth?
A coin has a circle if you look at it from above but its still flat lol...the bible also says that Jesus was taken to the highest mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the earth...now tell me...if you were to go on top of mount everest, or even a bigger mountain (if one exists) would you be able to see all the kingdoms of the earth??? no you wouldnt, because it is round and it is impossible that you could visually see the kingdoms on the bottom side.
ok - in context the contemporary greeks had concluded that the earth was spherical much later than Isaiah due to the ''circle of the earth'' factor. It was the Romans that drew the earth as a flat disc much AFTER this.
''Circle'' of the earth can be translated as sphere from hebrew.
Also the earth hang on nothing - Job 26:7 as opposed to ideas of elephants etc.
Unfortunately you want it to be wrong rather than allow scripture to say what it says in context.
Sure it can be translated circle...if you want to ignore reality that is...the hebrew word for circle is מעגל and sphere is כדור. Not similar at all..."Blessed is Allah who created the sky without any pillars" The quran is 100 percent accurate on everything...
Slightly incorrect?? GIve me an example because from the top of my head I can name two examples in which the Quran actually corrects both scriptures...again, when you say certain things, just so that people reading this can get the entire perspective, site your sources and provide evidence...
Next - Jesus being shown the kingdoms of the earth.
It is only modern human hubris that thinks that one standing on a mountain (in Israel) literally thought they were seeing the ''ends of the earth''. They knew they literally couldn't, they were there.
It is clear that the ''seeing'' was not just physical but in a ''vision'' of sorts. The Devil showed Jesus not just the kingdoms but their ''glory'' It is clear that what Jesus was seeing was not just what was evident to the eye.
Oh yeah...typical apologist technique...when the text is dubios, and doesnt hint at any metaphorical value, make it metaphorical lol...So in that case, i can take circle of the earth metaphorically also...Jesus was actually taken to the HIGHEST MOUNTAIN...that means someone that in order for him to be tempted by ALL the kingdoms of the earth, He would have to be on a very high platform...plz., stop trying to twist your own text.
Oh gosh...Sahih international man...the quran is so scientifically correct that only a fool would take that verse to be literal...Again wajadaha, means as if, No hadith or other quranic text supports a sun that sets into a muddy spring literally...If that was the intended meaning, surely it would have been reinforced with other verses...dont you think?
The Text CLEARLY has a visionary element - there is no deceptive technique. It is actually about asking what the text in its context is trying to say.
Satan showed Jesus ''the glory'' of those kingdoms. The text clearly shows that a visionary element is happening here.
You ignorantly and arrogantly suppose that people did not know that even on the highest mountains they could not see all the earth.
That is a pathetic cover up of the actual meaning and you know it...Zakir naik debated with one of your scholars about the scientific flaws in the bible and the mountain thing was part of it...and the christian was not able to refute it...if it was so obvious that the mountain is a symbol of power and nothing in those verses were to be taken literally, wouldnt he have said anything?? Entire books have been written on the scienctific errors in the bible, pick any one and see if you can refute
That is rubbish - making an unfounded statement about Zakir Naik debating one of ''your scholars''
I never said Nothing in the verse - many passages both in the Quran and Bible have literal and metaphorical elements used side by side.
Ps. I have read MANY books from within the Islamic Community claiming scientific errors in the Bible - yet to see a shred of evidence. (I have also read the ones claiming the scientific credibility of the Quran - yep - you should read a good critique in them)
I love how someone can make an ad hominem statement WITHOUT ONE SINGLE ELEMENT of fact.
I have consistently shown factually why the accusations both on this thread (and in the Quran) are clearly incorrect.
Ps. you also assume far too much when stating ''Bible scholars'' - I would not call myself a scholar but I have done years of specific academic study covering Biblical and Comparative Theology.
So being a muslim (i assume) What about that Sun going into the muddy pool? This was handed down by Allah himself wasn't it rather than through a man's perspective?
wajadaha in arabic means found it as if...that means found it as if setting in a muddy spring...Actually that brings up one of the greatest proofs that the quran is revelation...During the time of the caliphate umar (may Allah be please with him) he ordered some men to go and locate the wall of dhul qarnayn by using the description of surah kahf, which you just referred to, and surely enough it was there.
"[Dhu al-Qarnaiyn] witnessed the setting of the sun in its resting place into a pool of black and foetid slime." according to al-Tabari vol.5 p.173-174
Well this early Muslim scholar, with intimate knowledge of Arabic and its intentions seems to have missed it or maybe you have.
Again...Al-tabari is the translation you chose to look at...read tafsir and youl find out that the quran does not believe that sun rests in a spring...its a ball of fire to the untrained eye lol...even a stupid person would never write such a thing...and your telling me that the Quran could tell you that the sun goes along its own orbit, but somehow thinks that it goes inside a muddy spring...rediculous...
No, what you gave me on your comment is the translation...Tafsir is letter by letter interpretation, and commentary, do you have the commentary? can you please verify that in the commentary al-tabari claims that the sun ACTUALLY went into a muddy spring?
The Qur'an is the ONLY hooly book other than the Toh'rah and the bible brought down directly from Allah, that has not been modified by man. As you have learned in history England has tampered with EVERYTHING in the bible. And the jews, same there. Find it in yourself to actually use some common sense and think properly.
You are uneducated sir, the Koran was written in aramaic, and yet the entire world of Islam claims that the book is pure... ITS IN ARABIC NOW, that wasn't even a language when your silly book was written, so if anything, the Koran has lost much more holiness because EVERY koran is tampered with. Go learn Aramaic, read the real Koran, then come talk with those of us who know the world is round... mmmmmk?
Out of all the crazy attacks iv ever heard against islam, that one takes the cake...you say its not arabic?? But whats even sillier is that you say it wasnt a language at that time...and the first thing you say is "you are uneducated"...that is mind boggling to me...The quran was revealed in about 600 AD...Go do some actual research "sir"...The chapter of Prophet Joseph contains the verse "we have sent it down an arabic quran that you might understand"
Where do you get your information??? this is crazy lol...Jesus spoke arameic...and that language is dead...The quran is arabic, its miracles, literary and scientific, would not exist if it wasnt it in Arabic...thats some of Allahs SWT wisdom in revealing it in the arabic language...And it is preserved..for honests sake man...your most learned scholars admit the quran is unaltered...and the catholic church actually revears it as a revelation now!!!
wow... though not Catholic such a claim that they recognise it is not correct. Spurious claims suggesting such because a pope kissed it out of respect is taking such an action out of context.
The Catholics obviously want to see converts from Islam to Catholicism (eg. the Egyptian Journalist)
It is correct...Gary Miller said it at a lecture and no one spoke out against it, and if you do some research you will find that out also...The pope is the last person that would show any respect towards islam...And how would saying the quran is revelation make muslims convert to catholicism??? if anything, it would make catholics convert to islam...your statement doesnt make any sense...
You obviously want to use irrelevant 'here say', who cares about Gary Miller. The Catholics have shown they do not believe in Islam as a revelation of God. That is FACT.
Their intentions to get converts support such. Your desperate attempt to find legitimacy only reinforces the insecurity of Islamic belief. Whilst I respect Muhammads attempt to encounter God the Quran gets basic Christian and Jewish theology wrong. Surah at-Taubah, 9:30, Surah 5:116
Fine, you dont have to believe Gary Miller...I will give you that one...But not now or never, have the muslims ever been desperate to find legitamacy in their deen...It is the christian religion, that utilizes every possible fascet of culture to gain followers...like rock bands, and mass televised propoganda...Of cours the Quran gets Christian theology wrong, you want it to accept the trinity??? Or believe in the jewish perception of Jesus peace be upon him???
And you can look at the tafisr of surah at taubah if you want the truth that is, and 5:116 is perfectly accurate...for there are many sects of christianity that revere mary as a diety and give "hail marys" as words of forgiveness...astaghfurallah...as if any human being can forgive you your sins...
Wow, such only reinforces the ignorance of average islamic understanding. I am NOT catholic and despise 'praying'to Mary but NO Catholics believe Mary is God. Catholics also believe Mary can't forgive sins and strictly speaking they don't 'pray' to Mary but ask her to pray to Jesus.
That is a FACT: The Quran is WRONG. NO Christians do not believe Mary is God (even Catholics) Face it, a simple theological mistake in the Quran. Christianity 101
talk about reinforcing ignorace eh? You say that facts are just random general claims lol...they arent facts just because you say so...The fact is, a lot of christian sects revere Mary as the Mother of God, which makes her diety...and why not comment on the jewish perspective? Cat got your tongue? come on man...I gave you the references already look them up instead of being hard headed...
which one says MARY IS GOD? (as the Quran claims) Please go ahead - (mother of God - a catholic reference does NOT make her diety - the point of the statement is to say that she was the mother of Jesus - who was God ''incarnate'' - or in the flesh)
Catholics DON''T
Protestants DON''T
Eastern Orthodox DON"T
You have yet to give ANY evidence whatsoever that Christians believe that Mary is God. Face the facts - the Quran is wrong.
look at this, and then tell me if you still think that no christian sects believe in Mary as the Mother of God, and has divinity..actually, youtube wont let me post url's so google Mary mother of God and the first link you see, click it... its a letter by a pastor any normal person that reads this, will see that people, A LOT of people in christianity do pray in the name of Mary, and consider her to be the MOTHER OF GOD...and after this, I want to know what problem, truly, you have the verse
Please also - if a book claiming to be the 'word of God'' claimed Muslims believed in female circumcision - would you agree that such is evidence it is not inspired?
You and I both know such a claim would be incorrect - it is an absolute statement about a group that is simply not true.
The verse you sited contains this "...that is there statement from their MOUTHS, they immitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them..." Quranic verses are revealed to the prophet depending on situations he deals with...This verse clearly says that, it is the words from their MOUTHS, not their scriptures...but even so, I already told you about the jews and Ezra...and christians pray in the name of mary, that is polytheism in Islam...If we pray in the name of mohammed, we are infidels
According to Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 6, Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, page 1108, Uzair was called the Father of Judaism by the Jews.
2- According to the same resource in point #1, the Arab Jews in Yemen did indeed consider Uzair as the "son of God". So that verse, and Allah knows best, was just meant to stop the people around the prophet mohammed peace be upon him, from saying such blasphemy.
The Quran says THE JEWS - not some Jews or some random sect in a tiny minority. Those Jews you site never believed it in the same regard as Christians believe in Jesus as the son of God (which is the contrast in txt)
If the Quran was handed down by Allah, WHY COULDN'T HE GET SIMPLE THEOLOGY RIGHT? or is the truth that in actual fact it was written my muhammad through his limited experience and view.
Allah is the correct answer. what being is so powerfull enough to creat mankind in the perfect form we are in. Explain to me. People life is a test posed by Allah to see if are worthy enough to follow the Good, and leave behind the bad, for the bad is the easyest, and the good is the hardest. People life is not easy, and if you think it is, you are following evil.
And again if you go out with other guys and F-with them, are you telling me your husband will accept that? if he does...you live in a nasty, messed up, animal like lifestyle. To prove Allah exists, I dont have to say anything. You have to think, you have to use your brain that ALLAH gave you. :) How were you created? How was the world created? if your answer like all dumb Moronic scientists is " THE BIG BANG' how was it created.
Do you not fear anything? If not i honestly pitty you. As you can see you are retaliating with anger, and injustice. Why? Muslim girls are not denied childhoods, Muslim women are equal with men by all means, infact, women at the time of the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) went to war side by side with the men. Does that show you inequality? So you're telling me if you come to a Muslim country they'll murder you, cause you're a "disbeliever" right? Okay, so once again why dont you open your mind, eyes??
I am not Muslim. I am educated enough to understand the difference between a radical Muslim and a Peace Loving Muslim. Same goes for knowing the difference between radical Christians and Peace Loving Christians. In the USA Radical Christians are known to terrorize "non-believers". They have killed people just as the radical Muslims have killed people. In my heart I believe that any one who is a true believer in God, will not want to harm another person. God is Love. God is Peace. God is freedom.
sharaim 1 week ago 23
I fought in Iraq in 2004. I met many good men while I was there, their religion did not matter. They went to work, took care of their families, and did the best they could given the environment they lived in. Had Russia or China for some reason come to our country and did the same thing, I wouldn't do any different, I'd fight them. For that, I do not blame Iraqis.
PhunkyMunky76 1 week ago 25
Americans would rather tell you to fuck off then learn something and thats why americans are the dumbest bastard on the earth, Just watch the response this with get and it's proved.
TheBillyGtube 1 month ago 11
You might be a muslim if you wipe your ass with your bare hand, but consider bacon unclean
bengarang 2 years ago 180
just look at this goof
TheFreedomfighter84 2 years ago 16
This dude needs an urgent shave
pello777 2 years ago 217
Sad, pitiful, lost, dead Muslims who pray to a god who does not answer.
GodsSeer 2 years ago 7
You can believe all kind of silly things, but when it comes to justifying woman beating, killing, suicide bombings, then it has an end!
Evervbody that defends quran is a terrorist! Muslims are all terrirists!
You will see in the next few days another primitive mulsim asshole will put a bomb anywhere killing innocent people!
Motherfuckers all together!!
malsifood 2 years ago
@malsifood ......moslems are either deceived or deceivers....it's their bloodthirsty god and his boy mohamad
zackio1 5 days ago 4
People do the damage when, where, how and in whichever manner
they please, and they put Muslim names out on the media, thereby getting away with
their crime and directing your hate and action towards Muslims.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, save us from ignorance and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago 9
islam 4 ever
MrIsalm4ever 2 years ago
@docsheji well i said the truth. so there was never a show. facts are not drama, unlike islam which is just pure bullshit.
exec9292 2 years ago
Uh huh, we're all very grateful to you for the evidence you just provided us with that has enlightened us and led us to the truth. Its all right, don't sweat it, you need some rest now after all that hard work of evidence collection. Like I said, time to go back to your cage. Good day or night, whichever.
docsheji 2 years ago
@docsheji prove that islam is not bullshit
responsibility is on u
ya i will go back to the cage, your mother is there and she needs a good fucking lol
exec9292 2 years ago
Need I say more? Its evident for eerybody to see what kind of a culture you come from. I'm sorry kid you're mistaken, we're not fmiliar with your kind of culture which you just described, and I would just be lowering my standards,if I replied to any more of your posts, as you clearly showed your culture and backround. Welcome to any adults out there. May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago
@docsheji culture? dude muslims marry their own sisters
i am talking about fucking your mother. lol major difference. if anything me fucking your mother is more cultured and normal than what muslims do
exec9292 2 years ago
If I say - We've never met and our family doesn't live in cages. You just admitted you live in a cage, so who's mom could it be? I dare say it - its easy to shut your mouth in your own style. But that's hardly the way to go. It seems to me that you're intentionally indulging in garbage talk in order to provoke others to talk the same way. Please refain from it. May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago
No more replies for "exec9292" .
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it, and keep us protected from all evil at all times , Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago 5
This is for the general public -
Its forbidden for Muslims to marry a whole range of relatives, in which sisters are mentioned in the relations described in The Glorious Qur'an in many places. May Allah save us from ignorance and the evil of ignorant people, Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago 4
@docsheji well i agree with that. let the almighty keep us on the straight path, but you are a good muslim as you have twisted the truth to fit your own need. just like the hadith says "Telling flattering lies to make peace is OK! "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Bukhari vol.3:857 p.533"
exec9292 2 years ago
You're going into a whole new range of discussions, which has such lengthy explanations that they simply cannot be put in these little comment boxes. Firstly, come out clearly with what your question means. Do you only reject Islam or are you an athiest in general?
docsheji 2 years ago
@docsheji
Why do you say there were no eye-witnesses to the crucifixtion of Christ?
There were several,- his mother and diciples were among those,as well.
His crucifixtion is also recorded in several non-religious documents, such as Josephus the Historian,
Tacitus, Gaius, Hadrian,etc.
the Gospels tell that Jesus Himself TOLD the diciples that He would be killed, and then resurrected.
senja71 2 years ago
Once again you have proved that you are only capable of going around in circles to try and prove your point. Please watch this video of Dr. Jerald Dirks and you'll see what I mean -
Titled --- "From Jesus to Muhammad: A History of Early Christianity" on youtube itself.
His credentials - Joined Harvard as Freshman at 17, 2-semester course in comparative religion....
More.....
docsheji 2 years ago
.....Named a Hollis Scholar by Harvard, worked as Youth Minister at a fairly large United Methodist
Church, obtained License to Preach and received a Stewart Scholarship from the same, ordained
into the Deaconate of the same, all while studying in Harvard. Obtained Master of Divinity
from Harvard, completed 2-yr. externship program as a Hospital Chaplain at
Peter Bent Brigham Hospital, Boston.
More.....
docsheji 2 years ago
...Worked as Minister of 2 United Methodist churches in
rural Kansas,where attendance soared to heights not seen in those churches for several years,following graduation from Harvard Divinity School.YES,HE'S ONE THE MOST QUALIFIED IN THE
CHRISTIAN WORLD TO DELIVER A LECTURE SUCH AS THIS. PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO AND STOP BEING
BLINDED BY THE FAKE PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN EVANGELISTS OR ANYBODY ADVOCATING
CHRISTIANITY.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, Aameen.
docsheji 2 years ago
Please also visit the website "answering-christianity(dot)com" to get a detailed insight into what has confused you your whole life.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, keep us steadfast on it and protect us from all evil and all devious plots and ploys at all times, Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago
@docsheji
You can believe what you want, but listing up a person,then adding all "his" titles, as if that would make him any more WISE???
I believe this is the same minister that was talking about the "original scriptures"...!.-)
There ARE NO "original scriptures",- butwe DO have copies.
You fail to understand that ANY priest or educated pastor has gone through the same education.
They have ALL studied the oldest scriptures available.
The Gospels we have today exists in an amazing
senja71 2 years ago
@senja71
amount of copies,-and are dated back to the first century.
This man has not "discovered" something everybody else has not.!.-)
Remember: I was NOT a christian earlier, but Jesus revealed Himself to me in the most amazing way.
And by then, I had NOT been talking to any priest or gone to church!
I'm not blinded by "fake people", I met with the risen Christ, and I know from the bottom of my heart that Jesus is as He said, the living Son of God!
God bless:-)
senja71 2 years ago
Bro, we quote credentials for a reason. If a Christian Minister defended Christianity there would be no surprise at all. But this man, who happens to be from the top most level of learning on the topic from the institution of the highest repute in the world and the highest level of standards and the strictest adherence to quality, can't come out with non-sense. Furthermore, half his batch walked out after realizing the truth, wasn't just him. This was definitely God's plan
docsheji 2 years ago
He was a dispassioned Christian for quite a long time before he discovered the truth of Islam. He's one among many High Priests and Ministers who came to Islam from many parts of the world. You can't just come out the blues and say "HE'S WRONG BECAUSE I SAY SO!!!". Try and back yourself with something substantial and let everybody know the source of your fallacious info, if you have it in you,so that we can check it up for ourselves.Otherwise don't bother commenting, you'll expose urself further
docsheji 2 years ago
Muslims should drop the victim attitude and start being nicer to people. You cannot expect respect when you give none to the infidels.
ChristianChickK 2 years ago
@docsheji No, you are in for a rude shock. You ought to watch Walid Shoebat's Prophecy 101 and see for yourself. I would rather be Christian and risk fake islamic hell (which is the only reason you believe in islam) than live in jannah and be raped by muslim men for eternity. Islam is not peaceful and mohammed was evil. I have read the quran and hadiths and could never believe it is from God.
ChristianChickK 2 years ago
Dude-- Just a suggestion..Just improve your English..Your video really a bizarre due to your poor English ...otherwise just speak with your own (first) language
MrUnknownAussie 2 years ago
Its high time you all stop your dirty games, be God-fearing, and seek the truth sincerely. May Allah guide us all to the straight path, keep us steadfast on it, and protect us from all evil, Aameen
docsheji 2 years ago
@Whytheyconverted
And by the way, "Allah knows best" is said out of humility towards, the Supremacy of Allah. AMAZING!!! You're the personification of Ignorance. Oh, and what do you and Scholarship have in common? I asked you to watch a video of a Harvard Scholar, but you insist on whining and caling him a liar, as well.. Denial??? Its clear by now, that that's you're side of the story. Rebuttal?? Don't make me laugh. You've got nothing!!!
docsheji 2 years ago
Ps. He is not a scholar, as said further down. There must be a hundred thousand plus scholars in the USA alone if having a masters makes you so (which it doesn't)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
@Whytheyconverted
One Word - IGNORANCE
docsheji 2 years ago
I have a degree in Theology and Biblical History - you get your info from googling? Yep, I am clearly ignorant.
Ps. I never called that Jerald Dirk (I think his name?) a liar. I did say he is not a scholar, having a masters does not make you a scholar. Even man and his dog has one if they have studied.
Just remind me - where should I get my info? Ok that's right - google. Cause everything on google and wikipedia is right (so long as you believe in is doc)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
dochsheji please get a job haba see the way you have spammed this whole comment with your reply. Having been an Ex Muslim myself, I believe Islam hardens people earth. It increases hatred.
That is why you see Muslims engaging in terrorism these days. I am happy my family is no more in this evil religion of a thing.
I can see your heart is hardened through Islam
I appeal to everyone out there, please don't engage in any religion that promotes hatred.
Islam teaches people to kill others
etopedia 2 years ago
Yusuf Estes is a good one for this - a guy who had played some music in church claims to be an authority on Christian theology yet makes continual mistakes in Christian theology.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
@Whytheyconverted Yusuf's wife calls him useless - he is a liar and fraud.
ChristianChickK 2 years ago
It is funny that muslims are desperate to show 'fake muslims' (ohh... he says Allah different - he can't be muslim, just ignore say they are persian - not arabic)
I have seen numerous of these and see the 'reasons' and they are normally pathetic.
I could actually say exactly the same with many of the Islamic converts stories. References to non existant Christian theology, misunderstood theology.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
actually I have heard this out of a number of islamic scholars mouths. You can even see it here on youtube. Go search.
It is illegal to convert from in most islamic majority countries in which numerous hold to the death penalty under instruction from tafsir.
How about you look up Abul Ala Maududi
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Is that why and huge subsection of conversion in america comes from Jails? disenfranchised angry african american young men that can be taken advantage of.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Also lets stand in denial that the Bible in fact has been concretely recognised by Christians as their scripture well before muhammad. That muhammad tells Christians and Jews to go to their scriptures.
YEP the same ones we have today. Unfortunately he does not want to admit that muhammad believed in the inspiration of the Bible yet he does not.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
@Whytheyconverted
What grade are you and what are you trying to pull off here. Do you really think people are so gullible as to fall for your cheap games?? What do you think you even know about the Bible? If there's one thing you've learnt from it its what you accuse other people of doing, and everybody knows by now, what that is. You don't even need to to travel to get the info they require now, its all over the internet. A simple googleing would give you away. You're unbelievable!!!
docsheji 2 years ago
By cheap games - I assume you mean the truth
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
@Whytheyconverted
No I mean what you call the truth. Look bro, by any standards, you can't defend the lied you utter. I asked you to mention the name of a Scholar many times, but you fail to respond, I gave you sources for the answers of your illogical claims, but you don't respond. You say you're a Biblical Scholar, but you don't seem to know that much, gathering from what you've input. You blurt lies about Islam, and can't prove them. What does that say about you?
docsheji 2 years ago
"No real scholar from Al Azhar left or would leave Islam..."
For a start Christianity is not paganism, not even muhammad believed so WHY DO YOU?
Secondly - your argument is only emotional not logical. I could use the same argument and say "no real Christian would leave..." and you would not accept that either.
Thirdly: THEY HAVE - it is a fact. Some to Christianity and some simply to unbelief.
Does it make you feel insecure that some high placed scholars have left Islam?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
1. The Injil (or Gospel) was the common name of the Christian scriptures well before Islam (as is known to this day)
FACT
Christians were encouraged to go to their scriptures by Muhammad. We have the SAME as HUNDREDS of years before Muhammad FACT
2. It is clear Muhammad did not know NO Christians believe Mary is God - The Jews do NOT believe Ezra is the Son of God (some small random group in yemen actually reinforces the Quran is only a product of Muhammads limited understanding)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
And malign it with false information. Cowards like you have nothing, , no truth, no character, no argument, no real knowledge. All you do is attack from behind when nobody's watching, break treaties unilaterally, spread false information hoping to lure gullible people into your trap. You have nothing, and, therefore, aren't worried about losing anything. We have everything in terms of guidance and information, and therefore, will try to protect it. Losers like you have no value anywhere
docsheji 2 years ago
As long as you post lies about Islam in an open forum, there will be Muslims to defend it, so there. Just because you're characterless and want to malign the truth, doesn't mean Muslims have to sit there and take it. We will reply and if you can't deal with that then go take a walk. You have no argument, so stop your garbage talk and get out of here instead of wasting space.
docsheji 2 years ago
If you have nothing to lose and are not insecure
Why is Shirk punishable by death?
Why is leaving Islam and arguing against it punishable by death?
Why does Islam need the state to protect it?
Why are muslims under Sharia not even allowed to choose their own belief but Islam is reinforced by force and law?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
@Whytheyconverted
Bro, what you just posted is so utterly laughable. If you can't even read what's written in a post straight, what would you read from scholarly books.
Ok-
1-The Bible is an utterly distorted and manhandled book, with no records of who put in what there. Nobody till today know who is the author of almost the entire book. You really REALLY have to get your facts straight.
docsheji 2 years ago
2-There will be people everywhere who disbelieve and that's a fact, but there's no real argument against either the authenticity or the historicity or literary prowess or the scientific accuracy or anything else regarding the Qur'an. World experts and pioneers in various fields have personally testified to this. This is a well-known fact, and another thing that the unbelievers are jealous about that exists only for the Qur'an.
docsheji 2 years ago
3-Anybody who can read probably knows, by now, who's getting emotional and writing based on it. What I stated is what even a common man knows. You don't even need to be a Scholar for crying out loud.
4-Modern day Christianity is infact paganism which stems from took its form from the pagan Roman culture. Its not the message that the man you call Jesus came with. Another well known common fact. I really don't know where you get your info from, but it'll only make thinking people laugh
docsheji 2 years ago
4- I REPEAT - No Real Scholar from Al Azhar would leave Islam for paganism. Would anyone willingly throw away the ice-cream in his hand for mud, he'd be crazy to. That simply doesn't happen, and if it did, the guy must've been deluded. Not logical, because that's how much difference there is in the nature of the two. We see many Christians right from the common man, all the way up to Scholars coming to Islam everyday, but never the other way round, so much so that you have to make false .....
docsheji 2 years ago
Denial must hurt - the FACT is they have. Your unfounded objections only show a concerning insecurity.
From everyday men and women to scholars of Islam have come to Christ. It is increasing all the time. Does that worry you?
Ohhh.. that is right you will just say - no muslim converts. Of course no unless they are willing to risk their life in many countries
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
And who the fuck are you exactly to tell me what or what not to say? I posted a comment which wasn't directed at you and you acted in defense so guess what, NOBODY NEEDS YOU TO BUTT IN SO BUTT THE FUCK OUT DIPSHIT! Muslims are scum and you just proved so you dirty dishdash wearer.
assyrian2NV 2 years ago
soory i cant stant something
NOVERDSAGGAF 2 years ago
If Arabic is the so called "heavenly language" why did its so called "prophets" such as Issa and Ibrahim speak "Aramaic", just one of the languages in which the Bible was written in? There is even speculation that the Quran was originally written in Aramaic but because Aramaic was banned in the Muslim world they had to write in the Arabic script, this was later known as the "Garshuni script". The Quran (Qeryana - "A Guide") is read better in Aramaic. ww w . syriacaramaicquran . com
assyrian2NV 2 years ago
I don't believe such of course however it is the common belief in Islam.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Why do you insist on lying? You say "fact is that Christian scholars have unanimously agreed the Bible is a mix of forgery and probable truth"
I am nearly lost for words as to why someone would say something so ridiculous. I have been taught by many scholars, read many books by scholars and have NEVER heard of a Christian Scholar say anything like such. Oh there are a tiny handful of liberal critics who attack the Bible but they do so to the Quran as well.
Simple question Why are you lying?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Bro, its obvious who's lying & who's not to the educated lot who are fewer in number, but if your propaganda is to the gullible many, then go ahead and keep bickering. You learnt from many scholars??!!! From whom??!!! I doubt if you even know the name of a scholar. You sound more like a teenager with raging hormones and a dishonest background. This is a topic for intellectuals not for somebody like you. And by the way, this might be news for you and every other Christian who feel like being....
docsheji 2 years ago
...faithful to the Bible should know that if ever you venture into learning the history of the compilation of the Bible and the history of Christianity with utter sincerity,then by the time you reached the highest level of learning,you'd be so disappointed that you would either turn into an atheist or revert to Islam,or in the least leave all the high posts you'd be offered and live the rest of your life like an unbelieving Christian.....
docsheji 2 years ago
.....Ofcourse if you had other intentions, then it would be a different case altogether. Believe it or not, the Bible is one of the, if not THE MOST UNRELIABLE BOOK ON THE PLANET, and it can hardly be called "The" Bible, because each version differs from the other, not only in translation, content and text, but also in the message. Listen to this lecture given by Dr. Jerald Dirks-
Titled --- "From Jesus to Muhammad: A History of Early Christianity" on youtube.....
docsheji 2 years ago
.....His credentials - Joined Harvard as Freshman at 17, 2-semester course in comparative religion.
Named a Hollis Scholar by Harvard, worked as Youth Minister at a fairly large United Methodist
Church, obtained License to Preach and received a Stewart Scholarship from the same, ordained
into the Deaconate of the same, all while studying in Harvard. Obtained Master of Divinity
from Harvard, completed 2-yr. externship program as a Hospital Chaplain at
Peter Bent Brigham Hospital, Boston......
docsheji 2 years ago
.....Worked as Minister of 2 United Methodist churches in
rural Kansas,where attendance soared to heights not seen in those churches for several years,
following graduation from Harvard Divinity School. YES, HE'S ONE THE MOST QUALIFIED IN THE
CHRISTIAN WORLD TO DELIVER A LECTURE SUCH AS THIS. PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO AND STOP BEING
BLINDED BY THE FAKE PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN EVANGELISTS OR ANYBODY ADVOCATING
CHRISTIANITY.
May the Almighty guide us all to the Straight Path, Aameen.
docsheji 2 years ago
It is a pity you fall down to ad hominem arguments.
You have made straight lies and you stay in denial.
It is a lie that 'all Christian scholars have uninmously agreed the Bible is a forgery" (which was said) A matter of fact I have NEVER read nor heard such put forward by any reputable person.
Are you going to repent now for lying? or is lying allowed in Islam?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Face it man...and this is the last comment I am going to post to reply to you because you make me tired lol...If I use this much time to write an essay, it would be a thesis by now...your very stubborn may Allah swt guide you...Islam is what christianity wants to be...and thats the truth...our book is one...as opposed to your bible, which has many differing versions and not just translation differences...your scholars are, to this day, fighting to see which is more authentic..
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
And its not some random statement...I gave you the link to that source about 1000 replies down lol...And as for Mary peace be upon her, I told you that in God's perception, which is ultimate, praying in someone's name is taking that person as diety...you still dont get it? If sufi muslims pray to graves, they are taking those graves as gods, or intercessors to god...and this is supported all throughout the quran and authentic hadith...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
no whilst I agree that Catholics are wrong. They DO NOT, (listen closely) AT ANY TIME believe Mary to be God. They believe that they are asking her to pray to God. Some Muslims (hundreds of millions actually) pray to 'saints' and visit their tombs etc. DO you believe these Muslims (though incorrect under Islam) believe that these 'saints' are Allah?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
ugh...You repeat the same arguments so many times...I told you already that some Jews did believe that Ezra was the son of God...And even if it was written through Mohammed's view, lets say I agree with you, his view is certainly not limited...He encountered many, many jews during his lifetime...and most, if not all were Arab, and the message was revealed in arabia...what does that tell you? it tells you that that verse was for them..AND ALLAH SWT KNOWS BEST!!!
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
You can search it - read the arabic yourself. Are you insecure to see the truth or are you lazy and don't want to turn your head lest you see that the Tafsir (al tabari) clearly shows the Quran states something totally incorrect
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
You have not shown ANY proof to show it has been corrupted. The Sura 9 verse does not even show such (it talks of those people being illiterate anyway)
How about you read Sura 5:46 - 47 and then 43:63 and ask your self this simple question.
If muhammad thought the Christian and Jewish scriptures were true, and Christian and Jewish Scipture TODAY come from BEFORE the time of Islam - Why do I disagree with him?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
You showed that an OBSECURE group of Jews in Yemen might have believed such. Not that 'THE JEWS' believed such.
"THE JEWS" as stated in the Quran have NEVER believed such. FACT, your attempt only shows that the Quran was written through the limited perspective of Muhammads experience and understanding rather than 'being handed down by Allah'
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
I find it curious that muslims still repeat such things that have no a grain of truth in it. '
THe Christian scriptures are translated from manuscripts HUNDREDS of years older than Islam.
Do you honestly believe that 'the romans government' managed to burned every scripture in the world when the Bible was virtually across the globe, even beyond itss borders. When there were MANY Christians and groups outside the Roman Catholic Organisation?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Don't try todebate like a fool if you have no knowledge of what you speak (which should be pretty obvious to every Muslim and any knowledgeable Christian as well by now).
docsheji 2 years ago
Why do you make ad hominem statements? Do you honestly thinking throwing mud without any factual basis helps your cause?
FACT:
It has been CLEARLY shown that the Quran incorrectly believes Christians believe Mary is God when NO Christians do
It has been Clearly shown that the Quran incorrectly believes that 'THE JEWS' believe that Ezra is the son of God (and no some random sect only shows that the Quran was written through the hand and understanding of Muhammad)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
again...this statement alone proves that you dont know very much about islam, no offense..Then Waylun (woe) to those who write the book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah,'' to purchase with it a little price!). do you want me to quote more???
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
qoute ahead
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
oh wow...you have the Bible in its original language??? which version, may I ask??? Yes...I can pull up a hundred translations of the Quran, but alhamdulilah, all praise to Allah, for without him preservation is impossible, WE have the original quraishi arabic text...no differing version...you cannot go to a place on earth where two qurans are different, unless it is because of printing error of course lol...like ink spilling or something...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Yes, that is because I have studying greek and Hebrew.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
What??? Muhammad did not believe in the corruption of Christian scriptures??? There are tons of verses revealed to him that CLEARLY state that the scriptures have been tampered with...so what are you talking about exactly...the Quran states that it is the verification of that which came before it i.e. the INJEEL not the BIBLE..and the tawrat. not the old testament...And the quran serves as the criterion of truth between them...my friend, please try to think b4 you post
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Go for it - I will also give the verses where he encourages both Christians and Muslims to look go the Christians scriptures for teaching
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
no...you are the one that claims that he says it actually sets into a muddy spring...so provide your proof, if you are truthful...Ibn Kathir is the most renowned of mufasireen...and if you go to qtafsir website, you'l find the interpretation of that ayah...and im sure al tabari says the same inshallah
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
I just quoted al tabari - you are truly in denial
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
The quran talks extensively about the Jewish covenants and never mentions Ezra as being there primary diety...Even though I have given you proof that some regarded him as the son of God and is called the "Father of the Jews"...This verse that you sited, says that it is an Utterance...so Arabs, that lived around where the prophet was, used to regard Ezra as such, and that verse described how much they have strayed from Allah's path...And Allah knows best
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Saying 'Allah knows best' like it is a valid argument when you are defending a clear inaccuracy does not help your case.
DO ANY CHRISTIANS BELIEVE MARY IS GOD? NO! Fact
Then why does Allah make this mistake?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Oh, and one more thing...most books that iv heard about on the errors in the bible, are from non muslims...athiests mostly...so it is most likely unbiased, although i know some athiests that dont care for the christian faith lol
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
So trying to prove you don't have to answer to God makes one 'unbiased'?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
.....The intelligent creation (like humans) on who Judgement Day is ordained, on the other hand, can do only natural logical things, but has been given the intelligence to distinguish between what is logical and what's not. We have, additionally been given emotional intelligence. These two factors have been provided to us to play a crucial role in determining what is right and what is wrong and through it, to ultimately find our Creator. The non-intelligent creation, however,
More.....
docsheji 2 years ago
has no Judgement Day, and so their life on this Earth is ends with their death, End of story, Period !!! The Almighty is the Provider and there is a unique provision for every aspect of each living thing He's created, by means of which, specifically, they should sustain each portion of themselves. The provision for the Human Mind is intelligent perception, so we must use this to separate what is logical from what's not, what's good fom what's bad, what's right from what's wrong
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docsheji 2 years ago
.....You can find countless examples if you just tink for a moment what would happen if wrong use of a provision is made. Let me just give you an example - If you take a Polar Bear with a thick and furry coat and put it in the hottest desert and think in your mind, "I believe this polar bear will now turn into a porcupine and start flying". The rest of us know its going to die of excess heat because its body wasn't designed live in a desert, so naturally we'll object.
More.....
docsheji 2 years ago
.....That's exactly the basic problem here. Belief of the supernatural also should have an intelligent background of acceptance. If you believe that there is One Unique Supreme Power that Created us all and Governs us all, that's understandable. That's what the Muslim believes. We believe that he's already blessed us with logical and emotional intelligence to make sense of the truth that's out there.
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docsheji 2 years ago
.....Its as simple as that. If something is irreconcileable and erroneous, then its not logical and, therefore cannot be from God. To find this out, we have to get ourselves onto the provision of the vehicle that is intelligence, start it up and make out the difference between the right and wrong routes to finally reach the proper destination. Your Creator has even provided you with the "Signboards" so you don't get lost. The Bible of today is full of errors and man-handling
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docsheji 2 years ago
.....So much so that no 2 Bibles the world are identical. The natural argument against this is that it is not the literal but the inspired word of God. Anybody with a little common-sense and a good and God-fearing heart will see which is the Word of God when they compare any Bible (which doesn't even exist in its original language anymore because of the removal of the blessing from you as a result of blasphemy against The Almighty) and even a trnslation of The Qurán.
More.....
docsheji 2 years ago
.....The phrase, "Inspired Word Of God" can be attributed to a translation, not a transformation. Its common knowledge that the Bible is a product of transformation,and there's no way you can deny that, no matter how hard you try. Its only a matter of time before you reach the Straight Path if you take a step back and focus on using your God-given intelligence in the right manner. Don't be persuaded by any kind of pressure or any knid of emotion.
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docsheji 2 years ago
.....If you give in, then Satan will be waiting with open arms to deceive and mislead you, and you will be led, because although these are the only things he's allowed to do, he's an expert in them, and in fact the H.O.D. of that department. Pray to the One Supreme Power to protect you from the deception of the Devil and to guide you to, and keep you on the Straight Path. May the Almighty bless and guide us all and keep us on the Straight path, Aameen.
docsheji 2 years ago
Lets swing this just a bit anyway.
Can you name one source before the tenth century that clearly claims the Christians had tampered with their scriptures?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
gospel of barnabas
arianism (st arius)
Zeitgeist Movie : 3/15
banned from bible
youtube it!
sowhatsowhatsowhattt 2 years ago
youtube it! - yep if that is where you learn from you are likely to get in trouble.
Gospel of barnabas is a FOURTEENTH CENTURY FORGERY - That is FACT
Arian? had his theological views disproved
If you are getting your information from youtube, from every random misinformed person than that is likely your problem. There is good stuff on here but SO MUCH RUBBISH!
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
80% Americans' hate muslims? what a bull shit is that. WE have mosks on every corner, Major Hassan was promoted after he expressed his radical veiws. This is bull shit. and he is not ex-muslms, he clearly IS muslms. And don't mix politics w religion. WE may support Israel but we don't hate muslims , what a bull shit.
acidentallycool 2 years ago
jedi mind tricks luke
razza620 2 years ago
You'd think that somewhere amongst the thousands of words in the bible or whatever you wish to call it that reference to the shape of the earth (ie 'it's round') would have been mentioned!! Perhaps it (the bible thing) was written by man before the discovery was made. Makes you think doesn't it !!
Maybe God didn't realise it was round ..... i don't think so ...... do you?
benlooe 2 years ago
21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Is 40:21-22
Probably should read the Bible before trying to be an expert on something your don't know.
The FACT is the Bible DID say the Earth was Round before humanity knew
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Still doesn't say the planet is 'round' it's just an expression which could be interpreted in different ways. Could the moon have been known as the circle of the earth? I'll have a word with my circle of friends in the magic circle and see what they think. I might even circulate it aROUND. Have another look pal. Better still read Darwin's stuff, now that makes sense or better still listen to Ricky Gervais. Stop being conned!!
benlooe 2 years ago
Read the responses above - ps. of course I have read 'darwins stuff'' A man trying hard to understand nature yet without the modern understanding to understand its complexity.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Darwin observed the same species of animal on different islands EVOLVING in different ways to be able to adapt to the given surroundings. Why did the animals do that?.
Darwin was an extremely intelligent man who was also religious before he started studying and thinking for HIMSELF.
That snake must have been disappointed when God said you will forever slither (or something). I bet the snake missed his nice flying wings or whatever else he had. Probably evolved into Tony Blair LOL
benlooe 2 years ago
Actually such is stretching the óbservation'' of Darwin. He observed adaption without the genome of a species, nothing added whatsoever simply selection of certain PRESENT traits.
That only takes information OUT.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
you're really into this religious stuff and obviously very intelligent with a very strong faith. The only problem with faith is that it could probably be defined as 'belief in something that cannot be proven' I have never seen convincing proof that the bible is what people say it is. What is your strongest argument that it couldn't have been written by man. So much in it can be interpreted in different ways, as it is by different religions. The mormons have some wacky ideas re their 'faith'
benlooe 2 years ago
I agree that you should rigorously challenge a belief. I (obviously) have no problem with challenge, that is actually why I became a believer in Christ.
Faith is not simply something that cannot be proven (though there is an element)
Do you believe in love?
Carl Sagan said that at the centre of everything is something that cannot be proven.
Can you prove there is no God? If you can't why do you take the Faith step to assume that there is no God (or maybe you don't? - not sure)
4 Life
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
I believe man wrote the bible, can you prove me wrong?
Love is abused but exists.
I don't agree with Carl Sagans' comment.
I can't prove there is no God but nobody can prove there is.
Why do people pray to God, is it to ensure a ticket to heaven? If so, is it a case of people looking after number one? Is that selfish? Could it be a test by God to weed out the selfish?
Why are so many religious people child abusers, dishonest, thieves, violent etc etc etc
4. Life is great !!!
benlooe 2 years ago
"Love is abused by exists." - hmmm we certainly agree. I would say the same about faith in God.
The question about Love stands - Can you prove it exists? IF not why do you choose to believe in it? Maybe because you have experienced it, there is easily enough evidence to suggest such beyond reasonable doubt.
Why do people pray to God? Two reasons - In a Christian perspective prayer is primarily just talking. ALL relationships are based upon communication. Why not knowing God?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Simple Question: Is it selfish to talk to your family or friends?
Why are so many religious people abusers etc. I am not an apologist for 'religion' In actual fact I have no problem saying some people consistently follow their religious ideas to evil, others ignore .
I am a believer in Christ - for Christians there are two factors. Some ARE NOT really Christians (Jesus said you would know them by their fruit) the other is none of us are perfect (but Christians should live increasingly Holy)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Question: (Supposing you are an Athiest or Agnostic) What in your worldview makes being dishonest, and abuser, thieving, violent etc. absolutely wrong?
Yes, Life is great. What does that have to do with truth?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
A coin has a circle if you look at it from above but its still flat lol...the bible also says that Jesus was taken to the highest mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the earth...now tell me...if you were to go on top of mount everest, or even a bigger mountain (if one exists) would you be able to see all the kingdoms of the earth??? no you wouldnt, because it is round and it is impossible that you could visually see the kingdoms on the bottom side.
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
To Benloe and wesamalshaif
ok - in context the contemporary greeks had concluded that the earth was spherical much later than Isaiah due to the ''circle of the earth'' factor. It was the Romans that drew the earth as a flat disc much AFTER this.
''Circle'' of the earth can be translated as sphere from hebrew.
Also the earth hang on nothing - Job 26:7 as opposed to ideas of elephants etc.
Unfortunately you want it to be wrong rather than allow scripture to say what it says in context.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Sure it can be translated circle...if you want to ignore reality that is...the hebrew word for circle is מעגל and sphere is כדור. Not similar at all..."Blessed is Allah who created the sky without any pillars" The quran is 100 percent accurate on everything...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Actually you are using modern hebrew - sphere as an individual word was not used in ancient hebrew.
The verse (poetic in genre) is using ''circle of the earth'' - and YES even non Christian linguists translate the Isaiah phrase as sphere at times.
The Quran does a dubious job at ripping off ideas from numerous sources including the Bible but often getting them slightly incorrect.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Slightly incorrect?? GIve me an example because from the top of my head I can name two examples in which the Quran actually corrects both scriptures...again, when you say certain things, just so that people reading this can get the entire perspective, site your sources and provide evidence...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Next - Jesus being shown the kingdoms of the earth.
It is only modern human hubris that thinks that one standing on a mountain (in Israel) literally thought they were seeing the ''ends of the earth''. They knew they literally couldn't, they were there.
It is clear that the ''seeing'' was not just physical but in a ''vision'' of sorts. The Devil showed Jesus not just the kingdoms but their ''glory'' It is clear that what Jesus was seeing was not just what was evident to the eye.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Oh yeah...typical apologist technique...when the text is dubios, and doesnt hint at any metaphorical value, make it metaphorical lol...So in that case, i can take circle of the earth metaphorically also...Jesus was actually taken to the HIGHEST MOUNTAIN...that means someone that in order for him to be tempted by ALL the kingdoms of the earth, He would have to be on a very high platform...plz., stop trying to twist your own text.
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
wow, so says the person defending the undefendance with clear mistakes in the Quran.
Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout:... Al-Kahf: 86
Simple Question - Is it possible to reach the setting place of the sun?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Oh gosh...Sahih international man...the quran is so scientifically correct that only a fool would take that verse to be literal...Again wajadaha, means as if, No hadith or other quranic text supports a sun that sets into a muddy spring literally...If that was the intended meaning, surely it would have been reinforced with other verses...dont you think?
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
The Text CLEARLY has a visionary element - there is no deceptive technique. It is actually about asking what the text in its context is trying to say.
Satan showed Jesus ''the glory'' of those kingdoms. The text clearly shows that a visionary element is happening here.
You ignorantly and arrogantly suppose that people did not know that even on the highest mountains they could not see all the earth.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
The purpose of position (on the mountain) is a power position, a place of authority. This whole text was about such.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
That is a pathetic cover up of the actual meaning and you know it...Zakir naik debated with one of your scholars about the scientific flaws in the bible and the mountain thing was part of it...and the christian was not able to refute it...if it was so obvious that the mountain is a symbol of power and nothing in those verses were to be taken literally, wouldnt he have said anything?? Entire books have been written on the scienctific errors in the bible, pick any one and see if you can refute
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
That is rubbish - making an unfounded statement about Zakir Naik debating one of ''your scholars''
I never said Nothing in the verse - many passages both in the Quran and Bible have literal and metaphorical elements used side by side.
Ps. I have read MANY books from within the Islamic Community claiming scientific errors in the Bible - yet to see a shred of evidence. (I have also read the ones claiming the scientific credibility of the Quran - yep - you should read a good critique in them)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
My dear lost soul,
Do yourself a favour and never post a comment/video ever, because you have just made yourself
look like a fool, whether you've realized it already or not. The people who really know every
aspect of the Bible are the Bible Scholars, namely the origin, historicity and authenticity
of each and every single verse, the formation and evolution of doctrine and dogma, everything.
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docsheji 2 years ago
If you want to hear a man of real
knowledge, and who has had access to and has examined the ancient documents first hand, then
do yourself a favour and listen to this lecture by Dr. Jerald Dirks on youtube itself -
"From Jesus to Muhammad: A History of Early Christianity"
His credentials - Joined Harvard as Freshman at 17, 2-semester course in comparative religion.
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docsheji 2 years ago
Who? I have listened to many long winded ultimately baseless lectures. Like Dirks seems they build baseless strawmen and tear them down.
He has a Masters of Divinity - there you go. Does that mean you will believe whatever I tell you then?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
I love how someone can make an ad hominem statement WITHOUT ONE SINGLE ELEMENT of fact.
I have consistently shown factually why the accusations both on this thread (and in the Quran) are clearly incorrect.
Ps. you also assume far too much when stating ''Bible scholars'' - I would not call myself a scholar but I have done years of specific academic study covering Biblical and Comparative Theology.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
So being a muslim (i assume) What about that Sun going into the muddy pool? This was handed down by Allah himself wasn't it rather than through a man's perspective?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
wajadaha in arabic means found it as if...that means found it as if setting in a muddy spring...Actually that brings up one of the greatest proofs that the quran is revelation...During the time of the caliphate umar (may Allah be please with him) he ordered some men to go and locate the wall of dhul qarnayn by using the description of surah kahf, which you just referred to, and surely enough it was there.
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
"[Dhu al-Qarnaiyn] witnessed the setting of the sun in its resting place into a pool of black and foetid slime." according to al-Tabari vol.5 p.173-174
Well this early Muslim scholar, with intimate knowledge of Arabic and its intentions seems to have missed it or maybe you have.
Do you have more knowledge than al-Tabari ?
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Again...Al-tabari is the translation you chose to look at...read tafsir and youl find out that the quran does not believe that sun rests in a spring...its a ball of fire to the untrained eye lol...even a stupid person would never write such a thing...and your telling me that the Quran could tell you that the sun goes along its own orbit, but somehow thinks that it goes inside a muddy spring...rediculous...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Hmmmm... Al- tabari is not a translation it IS a tafsir. (Tafsir al-Tabari)
So in actual fact I have read a (exegesis) Tafsir (in part) by Al-Tabari.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
No, what you gave me on your comment is the translation...Tafsir is letter by letter interpretation, and commentary, do you have the commentary? can you please verify that in the commentary al-tabari claims that the sun ACTUALLY went into a muddy spring?
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
The Qur'an is the ONLY hooly book other than the Toh'rah and the bible brought down directly from Allah, that has not been modified by man. As you have learned in history England has tampered with EVERYTHING in the bible. And the jews, same there. Find it in yourself to actually use some common sense and think properly.
shawarmadrum 2 years ago
You are uneducated sir, the Koran was written in aramaic, and yet the entire world of Islam claims that the book is pure... ITS IN ARABIC NOW, that wasn't even a language when your silly book was written, so if anything, the Koran has lost much more holiness because EVERY koran is tampered with. Go learn Aramaic, read the real Koran, then come talk with those of us who know the world is round... mmmmmk?
hansome5 2 years ago
Out of all the crazy attacks iv ever heard against islam, that one takes the cake...you say its not arabic?? But whats even sillier is that you say it wasnt a language at that time...and the first thing you say is "you are uneducated"...that is mind boggling to me...The quran was revealed in about 600 AD...Go do some actual research "sir"...The chapter of Prophet Joseph contains the verse "we have sent it down an arabic quran that you might understand"
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Where do you get your information??? this is crazy lol...Jesus spoke arameic...and that language is dead...The quran is arabic, its miracles, literary and scientific, would not exist if it wasnt it in Arabic...thats some of Allahs SWT wisdom in revealing it in the arabic language...And it is preserved..for honests sake man...your most learned scholars admit the quran is unaltered...and the catholic church actually revears it as a revelation now!!!
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
wow... though not Catholic such a claim that they recognise it is not correct. Spurious claims suggesting such because a pope kissed it out of respect is taking such an action out of context.
The Catholics obviously want to see converts from Islam to Catholicism (eg. the Egyptian Journalist)
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
It is correct...Gary Miller said it at a lecture and no one spoke out against it, and if you do some research you will find that out also...The pope is the last person that would show any respect towards islam...And how would saying the quran is revelation make muslims convert to catholicism??? if anything, it would make catholics convert to islam...your statement doesnt make any sense...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
You obviously want to use irrelevant 'here say', who cares about Gary Miller. The Catholics have shown they do not believe in Islam as a revelation of God. That is FACT.
Their intentions to get converts support such. Your desperate attempt to find legitimacy only reinforces the insecurity of Islamic belief. Whilst I respect Muhammads attempt to encounter God the Quran gets basic Christian and Jewish theology wrong. Surah at-Taubah, 9:30, Surah 5:116
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Fine, you dont have to believe Gary Miller...I will give you that one...But not now or never, have the muslims ever been desperate to find legitamacy in their deen...It is the christian religion, that utilizes every possible fascet of culture to gain followers...like rock bands, and mass televised propoganda...Of cours the Quran gets Christian theology wrong, you want it to accept the trinity??? Or believe in the jewish perception of Jesus peace be upon him???
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
And you can look at the tafisr of surah at taubah if you want the truth that is, and 5:116 is perfectly accurate...for there are many sects of christianity that revere mary as a diety and give "hail marys" as words of forgiveness...astaghfurallah...as if any human being can forgive you your sins...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Wow, such only reinforces the ignorance of average islamic understanding. I am NOT catholic and despise 'praying'to Mary but NO Catholics believe Mary is God. Catholics also believe Mary can't forgive sins and strictly speaking they don't 'pray' to Mary but ask her to pray to Jesus.
That is a FACT: The Quran is WRONG. NO Christians do not believe Mary is God (even Catholics) Face it, a simple theological mistake in the Quran. Christianity 101
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
talk about reinforcing ignorace eh? You say that facts are just random general claims lol...they arent facts just because you say so...The fact is, a lot of christian sects revere Mary as the Mother of God, which makes her diety...and why not comment on the jewish perspective? Cat got your tongue? come on man...I gave you the references already look them up instead of being hard headed...
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
which one says MARY IS GOD? (as the Quran claims) Please go ahead - (mother of God - a catholic reference does NOT make her diety - the point of the statement is to say that she was the mother of Jesus - who was God ''incarnate'' - or in the flesh)
Catholics DON''T
Protestants DON''T
Eastern Orthodox DON"T
You have yet to give ANY evidence whatsoever that Christians believe that Mary is God. Face the facts - the Quran is wrong.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
catholics didnt said mary is God
but if u pray using some one else name
like in the name of jesus
u associate God the father with man
and catholics did pray in the name of mary
did seeking in the name of mary
so whats the difference?
if u invoke someone else other than God, does that mean u associate God with someone else?
God is far exalted than any creations
none shall comparable to him
sowhatsowhatsowhattt 2 years ago
"catholics didn't say mary is God"
THANKYOU - but the Quran DID (does) say that Christians believed Mary is God. It is wrong. It is ridiculous to try and wriggle out of what is clear.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
look at this, and then tell me if you still think that no christian sects believe in Mary as the Mother of God, and has divinity..actually, youtube wont let me post url's so google Mary mother of God and the first link you see, click it... its a letter by a pastor any normal person that reads this, will see that people, A LOT of people in christianity do pray in the name of Mary, and consider her to be the MOTHER OF GOD...and after this, I want to know what problem, truly, you have the verse
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
Please also - if a book claiming to be the 'word of God'' claimed Muslims believed in female circumcision - would you agree that such is evidence it is not inspired?
You and I both know such a claim would be incorrect - it is an absolute statement about a group that is simply not true.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
The verse you sited contains this "...that is there statement from their MOUTHS, they immitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them..." Quranic verses are revealed to the prophet depending on situations he deals with...This verse clearly says that, it is the words from their MOUTHS, not their scriptures...but even so, I already told you about the jews and Ezra...and christians pray in the name of mary, that is polytheism in Islam...If we pray in the name of mohammed, we are infidels
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
According to Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 6, Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, page 1108, Uzair was called the Father of Judaism by the Jews.
2- According to the same resource in point #1, the Arab Jews in Yemen did indeed consider Uzair as the "son of God". So that verse, and Allah knows best, was just meant to stop the people around the prophet mohammed peace be upon him, from saying such blasphemy.
wesamalshaif 2 years ago
The Quran says THE JEWS - not some Jews or some random sect in a tiny minority. Those Jews you site never believed it in the same regard as Christians believe in Jesus as the son of God (which is the contrast in txt)
If the Quran was handed down by Allah, WHY COULDN'T HE GET SIMPLE THEOLOGY RIGHT? or is the truth that in actual fact it was written my muhammad through his limited experience and view.
Whytheyconverted 2 years ago
Allah is the correct answer. what being is so powerfull enough to creat mankind in the perfect form we are in. Explain to me. People life is a test posed by Allah to see if are worthy enough to follow the Good, and leave behind the bad, for the bad is the easyest, and the good is the hardest. People life is not easy, and if you think it is, you are following evil.
shawarmadrum 2 years ago
And again if you go out with other guys and F-with them, are you telling me your husband will accept that? if he does...you live in a nasty, messed up, animal like lifestyle. To prove Allah exists, I dont have to say anything. You have to think, you have to use your brain that ALLAH gave you. :) How were you created? How was the world created? if your answer like all dumb Moronic scientists is " THE BIG BANG' how was it created.
shawarmadrum 2 years ago
Do you not fear anything? If not i honestly pitty you. As you can see you are retaliating with anger, and injustice. Why? Muslim girls are not denied childhoods, Muslim women are equal with men by all means, infact, women at the time of the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) went to war side by side with the men. Does that show you inequality? So you're telling me if you come to a Muslim country they'll murder you, cause you're a "disbeliever" right? Okay, so once again why dont you open your mind, eyes??
shawarmadrum 2 years ago