I think when we become enlightened, we'll see that compassion isn't a problem at all. It's only because of the limitations of the physical body, including the physical mind, that we're unable to see beyond our limitations (unless we have a genuinely enlightened teacher to guide us). Thus it is said that we live in a maze. Just my opinion.
I agree that true enlightenment comes from loving connection to other individuals in the world, which also connects us to the spiritual reality of love and goodness, which is the source of enlightened truth understanding, as flame is the source of light. We can contact our own core only by deeply caring about, and unselfishly serving, other individuals, because our true heart core, our real self, is a relational being, whereas the separate, self-absorbed, ego is an illusion,a false sense of self
At the end you reduced your concern for others to your concern for yourself: this is what Kant would call pathological motivation. It refers to how one's charity for others may hide the private servicing of one's own ego-maniacal strivings. (Also see Melebranche take on story of Christ)
If enlightenment is transcendence of this world, then its an obvious conclusion that one who is enlightened would not have compassion or attachment. But I think there is an in between here. A state were a person can acknowledge that we are all one and yet we all transcend. But in the very biology of our bodies, we are designed to need others to further our development. This show to me that we may be transcending the world but in our time on earth, our purpose must be to attach and love.
Enlightenment can mean many things. Just because you "transcend" doesn't mean you have to cut off ties, that is your choice. You can be moving and complete at the same time. Most people aren't inbetween though in the suffering/pleasure thing. The only exit you are going to have in this world is death. Everyone appears human not that they aren't more; that is all you know. I like mastery of life/reality, what else can consciousness be? If you just go with the flow, you might as well be a rock.
We shared a drink here.... Thanks to a comment that hepdot left on rybot9000's channel and him putting this vid in his "study" playlist. These details are keys... young master...
It's very rare for me to look at one of your videos when I have a glass of wine, which sometimes I go several months without... so yeah... hope my offering provides you with an alternative.
Non-attachment should not be mistaken for cold indifference. It's the wisdom of knowing when to let things go. Two of the most valuable lessons I've learned from Buddhism are:
I have had that thought concerning accending and what it means, which is in line with what you mentioned, for me things are as they are, and yet change and if not it is what has become, and yet life in general and what we cant' see, all forms of energy, move constantly from, around, and within.
I think you hit the nail on the head at the end. Compassion and love is innate to our spiritual connected selves. Therefore, when one is in that state, compassion just comes naturally. Selfless love or compassion for others is not attachment imo. It's just what naturally comes out of the enlightened state.
Buddha's path was right for Buddha, but in this crazy world sometimes I need to attach myself quite deeply to certain necessary goals, hopes, relationships... The pendulum swing between between attachment and detachment tends to get smaller as the seeker refines his balance... Of course, it seems that when equilibrium is finally reached its immediately given a good strong swing. C'est la vie, as my grandmother used to say.
I don't like the idea that attachment of others or other things is "BAD". I understand Buddhist ideas that attachment can cause suffering but without suffering how can you know what happiness is? It is the very attachment to things that can make us feel love when our significant other leaves, or our family member dies, or our children succeed. It is these feelings, caused by our attachment, that color our experience and make life worth living.
I like what you are saying about enlightenment. It is often presented as a finality whereas it is really only something we experience impermenently, that fleeting state in which 'everything makes sense'. As soon as we realise we are enlightened and try to cling to it we are no longer enlightened.
It's a conflict. Everyday life and survival means loving those who love you. If you love all random strangers as you love a family member then I'd think most people would call that naive. Yet it's the most spiritually true thing to do. It's a real conflict for me.
Love as a recognition of the union between all beings is not a form of attachment, but I said that one can be attached to easing the suffering of others only because we may attempt to help without realizing that we are doing so due to our own unconscious motivations... follow me?
I'm just saying we must be cognizant of the potential for self-deception. Compassion requires skillful means, in the sense that what may at first appear cruel is actually beneficial in the long run.
non-attachment makes sense in that you do not want to become so attached to ideas, people, things, etc. that your happiness relies on them. That is not to say you cannot go out and experience the world or that you will be void of emotion, but the stillness within is so strong that the emotion does not overwhelm or sway your being into irrational action. You can see life for more of the game/joke/movie it really is.
yeah, life is a play... but i think compassion arises when we see that others have taken their character so seriously that they've forgotten what happens after the curtain is drawn. the danger is that we, in trying to help, also begin to take ourselves too seriously... i don't know that there is a verbalizable solution to this issue!
Mourning loss, especially of people, is a natural process and is one that will negatively effect your body if you try to suppress it. Pain of loss of a loved one is like pain of injury to the body, but in a more subtle realm. In both cases you observe the emotional or physical reactions a your body has and move through them. You do not want to spend your life mourning, but thinking that you must not mourn is itself an attachment to an ideal that is really not very plausible.
I agree. It is more an experiential thing. I would also agree there are no "enlightened beings," but I do think there is somewhat of a gradient of "enlightenment."
I agree that everything is about balance, but consistent meditative practice will no doubt strengthen your ability of non-attachment. So the balance in this case lies more in the acadamia v meditation, or really life in general v meditation. It is growing your inner space of stillness so emotional disruptions do not disturb your whole being. Flow like water with any given agitation of expectation.
If all beings are one, I don't think showing compassion to others would be a problem. Compassion for others is what helps to make the world a better place to live in. I think you bring up a good point of how if people have good and bad moments that enlightenment would not seem desirable. While during the bad moments people may want to feel enlightened and escape from the bad things, during the good moments, people don't feel sad about their lives.
I think when we become enlightened, we'll see that compassion isn't a problem at all. It's only because of the limitations of the physical body, including the physical mind, that we're unable to see beyond our limitations (unless we have a genuinely enlightened teacher to guide us). Thus it is said that we live in a maze. Just my opinion.
Falun Dafa is good.
Speak2Me25 1 year ago
I agree that true enlightenment comes from loving connection to other individuals in the world, which also connects us to the spiritual reality of love and goodness, which is the source of enlightened truth understanding, as flame is the source of light. We can contact our own core only by deeply caring about, and unselfishly serving, other individuals, because our true heart core, our real self, is a relational being, whereas the separate, self-absorbed, ego is an illusion,a false sense of self
Togetherness8 1 year ago
I believe enlightenment to be more of a connectedness to the world, rather than a transcendence away from the world.
ICharmaine 2 years ago
me too.
to transcend ourselves, through compassion for the universe and its beings, may be the meaning of enlightenment.
alovelytime 2 years ago
At the end you reduced your concern for others to your concern for yourself: this is what Kant would call pathological motivation. It refers to how one's charity for others may hide the private servicing of one's own ego-maniacal strivings. (Also see Melebranche take on story of Christ)
notonewhit 2 years ago
If enlightenment is transcendence of this world, then its an obvious conclusion that one who is enlightened would not have compassion or attachment. But I think there is an in between here. A state were a person can acknowledge that we are all one and yet we all transcend. But in the very biology of our bodies, we are designed to need others to further our development. This show to me that we may be transcending the world but in our time on earth, our purpose must be to attach and love.
AshleyRickards 2 years ago
I've never heard that enlightenment is to transcend the world...
kinda like how birds transcend their need for legs for walking/running.
You like hearing yourself talk, eh?
VvidEye 2 years ago
Enlightenment can mean many things. Just because you "transcend" doesn't mean you have to cut off ties, that is your choice. You can be moving and complete at the same time. Most people aren't inbetween though in the suffering/pleasure thing. The only exit you are going to have in this world is death. Everyone appears human not that they aren't more; that is all you know. I like mastery of life/reality, what else can consciousness be? If you just go with the flow, you might as well be a rock.
o0JustNobody0o 2 years ago
We shared a drink here.... Thanks to a comment that hepdot left on rybot9000's channel and him putting this vid in his "study" playlist. These details are keys... young master...
I will answer this question for you soon.
patternsinchaos 2 years ago
lol very perceptive. Well, I guess I'm wearing the evidence.
0ThouArtThat0 2 years ago
It's very rare for me to look at one of your videos when I have a glass of wine, which sometimes I go several months without... so yeah... hope my offering provides you with an alternative.
:-)
patternsinchaos 2 years ago
Non-attachment should not be mistaken for cold indifference. It's the wisdom of knowing when to let things go. Two of the most valuable lessons I've learned from Buddhism are:
1. Nothing is permanent.
2. Attachment causes suffering.
AlaskanSky 2 years ago
My definition of enlightenment is:
Having an intuitive understanding of how all the pieces fit together.
AlaskanSky 2 years ago
Comment removed
AlaskanSky 2 years ago
I have had that thought concerning accending and what it means, which is in line with what you mentioned, for me things are as they are, and yet change and if not it is what has become, and yet life in general and what we cant' see, all forms of energy, move constantly from, around, and within.
Emyousmusa 3 years ago
I think you hit the nail on the head at the end. Compassion and love is innate to our spiritual connected selves. Therefore, when one is in that state, compassion just comes naturally. Selfless love or compassion for others is not attachment imo. It's just what naturally comes out of the enlightened state.
afh5073 3 years ago
blah
lefty6584 3 years ago
beautiful.
The option of nirvana was a final test or temptation, in a way. He, and you see clearly.
The way of the bodhisattva is nirvana.
mellowandlovely 3 years ago
Buddha's path was right for Buddha, but in this crazy world sometimes I need to attach myself quite deeply to certain necessary goals, hopes, relationships... The pendulum swing between between attachment and detachment tends to get smaller as the seeker refines his balance... Of course, it seems that when equilibrium is finally reached its immediately given a good strong swing. C'est la vie, as my grandmother used to say.
delerium2k 3 years ago
I don't like the idea that attachment of others or other things is "BAD". I understand Buddhist ideas that attachment can cause suffering but without suffering how can you know what happiness is? It is the very attachment to things that can make us feel love when our significant other leaves, or our family member dies, or our children succeed. It is these feelings, caused by our attachment, that color our experience and make life worth living.
gredgre99 3 years ago
This is a good video, on an important topic.
weyjoh 3 years ago
I like what you are saying about enlightenment. It is often presented as a finality whereas it is really only something we experience impermenently, that fleeting state in which 'everything makes sense'. As soon as we realise we are enlightened and try to cling to it we are no longer enlightened.
yeahwotevaman 3 years ago 2
yeahwotevaman, you are so right! The old Zen cliche is:
Chop wood, carry water,
Become enlightened,
Chop wood, carry water.
AlaskanSky 2 years ago
It's a conflict. Everyday life and survival means loving those who love you. If you love all random strangers as you love a family member then I'd think most people would call that naive. Yet it's the most spiritually true thing to do. It's a real conflict for me.
regemo 3 years ago
"attachment to the suffering of others"
careful here my friend careful... let us not use the word 'attachment' at all in this context.
the vow of the boddhisatva has no attachment.
just noting the necessity for accurate language. or else there is no framework for building.
pdballiet 3 years ago
Love as a recognition of the union between all beings is not a form of attachment, but I said that one can be attached to easing the suffering of others only because we may attempt to help without realizing that we are doing so due to our own unconscious motivations... follow me?
I'm just saying we must be cognizant of the potential for self-deception. Compassion requires skillful means, in the sense that what may at first appear cruel is actually beneficial in the long run.
0ThouArtThat0 3 years ago
Matt brings up a good point. We may try to help others with the subconscious desire that the other person will become dependent upon us.
AlaskanSky 2 years ago
non-attachment makes sense in that you do not want to become so attached to ideas, people, things, etc. that your happiness relies on them. That is not to say you cannot go out and experience the world or that you will be void of emotion, but the stillness within is so strong that the emotion does not overwhelm or sway your being into irrational action. You can see life for more of the game/joke/movie it really is.
dreaminginnoother 3 years ago
yeah, life is a play... but i think compassion arises when we see that others have taken their character so seriously that they've forgotten what happens after the curtain is drawn. the danger is that we, in trying to help, also begin to take ourselves too seriously... i don't know that there is a verbalizable solution to this issue!
0ThouArtThat0 3 years ago
Mourning loss, especially of people, is a natural process and is one that will negatively effect your body if you try to suppress it. Pain of loss of a loved one is like pain of injury to the body, but in a more subtle realm. In both cases you observe the emotional or physical reactions a your body has and move through them. You do not want to spend your life mourning, but thinking that you must not mourn is itself an attachment to an ideal that is really not very plausible.
dreaminginnoother 3 years ago
I agree. It is more an experiential thing. I would also agree there are no "enlightened beings," but I do think there is somewhat of a gradient of "enlightenment."
dreaminginnoother 3 years ago
right! it is a precarious balance we must find!
0ThouArtThat0 3 years ago
I agree that everything is about balance, but consistent meditative practice will no doubt strengthen your ability of non-attachment. So the balance in this case lies more in the acadamia v meditation, or really life in general v meditation. It is growing your inner space of stillness so emotional disruptions do not disturb your whole being. Flow like water with any given agitation of expectation.
dreaminginnoother 3 years ago
dreaminginnoother, that's a good analogy. I always think of life as being an interactive movie.
AlaskanSky 2 years ago
the problem is one of choice ,,there is no spoon
cardellacole1 3 years ago
If all beings are one, I don't think showing compassion to others would be a problem. Compassion for others is what helps to make the world a better place to live in. I think you bring up a good point of how if people have good and bad moments that enlightenment would not seem desirable. While during the bad moments people may want to feel enlightened and escape from the bad things, during the good moments, people don't feel sad about their lives.
HaleyMary 3 years ago