@PaladinswordSaurfang ...Really?! Comedy isn't about where you stand on a point, its just about being funny. Obviously if you have extremely strong views on something you MAY not like what's being said to the point your distaste overshadows the humour, but really, if you can't laugh at something just because you disagree with it on some level you really need to lighten up.
If ever a lightweight comedy sketch was designed to provoke a storm of Youtube comments fury, then this is it. All seems to be getting a bit hot under the collar doesn't it? Personally I'm a crockerian, I only eat broken crockery.
100 myths? UM... every single one of those "myths" was a peer-reviewed scientific study... but hey, you're crazy so I figure that's nothing you'll be interested in.
So what if he died of a stroke... so do many vegetarians...
BTW, how do you debunk his science? He has hundreds of links on that page - I just checked it out myself... Can you debunk any of that other than saying "he was a member of weston a price.."
At least the foundation has medical experts. Durianrider is just a moron. You ignore medical experts and believe in drug-addict morons and think that's great?
@AlbertaBeefy LCHF, is this you under a new troll account? I believe it is. Don't pat yourself on the back like this across accounts, it just make you look like an idiot.
There were no links, only a list of 100 myths. All the links LCHF (=you) have provided beside the stuff to anti-vegetarian/Vegan sites and Weston A, Price foundation sites were blank, lead nowhere. Just give it up already. And Minger has been put to rest by Campbell himself and several experts in her comments ON HER BLOG.
LCHF - dude, seriously give up. The delusional won't accept facts. they never do. they are, after all, delusional.
It's interesting you asked him to debunk Minger, Masterjohn, Colpo, Mercola, etc. and all he can do is say "Minger has no credibility"
They keep trying to hide the truth by focusing on other things... Minger debunked campbell beautifully, as did the others. Campbell wrote a piece of fiction, passed off as a study...
It's interesting that someone who CLAIMS to know the truth won't actually research on his own... It's obvious you've been spoon-fed all your dogma, and chosen to believe it without doing any critical thinking.
This is quite common with vegan animal-rights activists. Trolls with no critical thinking ability, nor the ability to read or analyze science.
And with that, I'm done with you. You're obviously an animal-activist troll.
You can attempt to bury the truth, but the truth remains. You have no science backing up your claims, you have illogical, nonsensical arguments and you refuse to look at the science that shows you wrong.
You blindly follow your vegan gurus, even though they are all animal-activists associated with known terrorist groups. Good for you. Live in your delusion, Own It! yay!
And since you've tried to bury it.... and you can't use google... Evidence on the Masai, comparison of both studies: cholesterol-and-health(dot)com/Did-Masai-Have-Atherosclerosis.html Meat and Fish don't cause cancer: ncbi.nlm.nih(dot)gov/pubmed/21479828 Vegans get more colorectal cancer: ncbi.nlm.nih(dot)gov/pubmed/19279082 Saturated fat (and others) doesn't cause cancer: ncbi.nlm.nih(dot)gov/pubmed/20702156 Myths with over 100 links to scientific research: chetday(dot)com/vegmyths.htm
@LCHFinCanada Hahahahaha- Hilarious, only one of your links worked, and it was to The Myths of Vegetarianism - written by Stephen Byrnes, a member of the Dr. Weston A. Price Foundation, an LCHF believer who, surprise surprise, died of a stroke.
You are really making my day here - I haven't laughed this hard in ages.
If you really research the two major studies of the Masai, you'll find that Taylor's studies in the 1950's were of masai eating a more traditional diet, and far away from western influence.
In George Mann's study in the 70's however, he reported:
"The old and the young Masai do have some access to such processed staples as flour, sugar, confections and shortenings through the Indian dukas scattered about Masailand."
You seem to believe propaganda without reading the truth. That's ignorance.
As for the masai - READ the studies. The 1950's studies done on the masai showed little to no atherosclerosis. This was of masai eating a traditional diet. Period.
The later study by George Mann studied masai that, by the 1970's, were introduced to more agriculture - grains, etc., not traditionally associated with their diet.
Even though they had atherosclerosis, they HAD NO HEART ATTACKS. This is evidence of the protective quality of meats.
And for the people that believe red meat is "linked" to cancer. I need to point out correlation does not prove causation.
I'll also point out that with BILLIONS of people eating millions of pounds of red meat every year, and hundreds of studies being done, there's never been ANY study that proves red meat causes cancer.
Yet there's been studies that disprove it. (2009, 2010 Amer.Journ.Clinical.Nutrition, 7th-day-adventist vs. mormon, etc.)
So to continue arguing it is pretty stupid of you.
@Izaak247 actually most vegetarians are nice people. Same with most vegans.
The one's showing up on YouTube however are most-often not just vegans, but militant brainwashed animal-activists trying to use science to prove their point.
The fact is there is no health reason for vegetarian/vegan diets over a healthy diet that includes meat/fish/. There's also no true environmental reason. The only thing I won't refute is their personal opinion. However, I'm also entitled to mine.
@LCHFinCanada What's most funny is a self-righteous paleo zealot like yourself just flat out refusing to believe any and all evidence that meat induces cancer. It's obvious to any and all who look at panel data of countries, does a correlation study, and finds that low-protein (=meat) consuming countries like India, China, and other south-east Asian countries have low cancer rates, more westernize countries with high intake has high, and that meat is STRONGLY correlated. Stay blind, ignoramus.
@PerfectEclipse What's *really* funny is the assumptions you make. I'm NOT paleo. This proves to show your ANTI-PALEO bias.
Western countries don't only eat more meat, Eclipse... they eat MORE REFINED/PROCESSED CARBS/SUGARS which are showing more and more to be the problem.
When all evidence points to meat being healthy, and as primitive peoples start to get refined/processed carbs/sugars in their diet they get cancer, it's NOT the meat that's the issue.
@LCHFinCanada Also, good on you for reading it yourself- What is your scientific background? Do you even have any sort of schooling to back up yourself? I doubt it.
And what the fuck - NO ENVIRONMENTAL REASON? are you completely lost on the reality of the world? it takes 16 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat. If we stopped all meat production we could feed the world and stop global warming.
Paleo is the most selfish diet that exists, but I guess it'll take a heart attack to change you
@PerfectEclipse Actually, it doesn't take any grain to produce meat. None. All meat could be pasture-raised.
I agree factory farming is atrocious, but it's not the only way to farm. As such, your argument is only valid for factory farming, not for grass-fed/pasture-raised meat which is what I eat and what I recommend we all eat.
Most paleo don't eat factory-farmed either, so how are they selfish? You don't seem to know WHAT you're talking about at all.
@LCHFinCanada It also shows your extreme desperation that you'd lie about the Masai article, the article is from 1972 and they were tribal masai.
Your ignorance knows no bounds, and you've shown yourself to be an effective meat-propaganda wagon - though you never addressed the concerns of Ethics, and environmental damage. @PrimitiveNutrition proved the paleo diet to be one "to die for" (literally), and none of your bloggers have been able to refute him (nor will they be).
@PerfectEclipse again, every study you've reported is observational and full of confounding variables.
You can only prove something with clinical trials - RCT's to be exact. If you refuse to admit that, there's no helping you. Your bias is clear, and your science is obviously faulty to everybody but you.
You're not using logical arguments, your arguing emotionally, grasping at any straw, regardless of the fact they prove nothing.
@PerfectEclipse If you READ the atherosclerosis study, it was on Masai that have been introduced to a western diet.
Look instead at studies of masai eating a TRADITIONAL diet.
Regarding the Minger-debunked link... wow, she used unadjusted data... THE SAME THING CAMPBELL DID??? Do you know how stupid an argument that is? Campbell did THE SAME DAMN THING, roflmao!!!!!
@PerfectEclipse The 16670693 pubmed says NOTHING about meat being unhealthy, and backs up my claims in fact, when it says:
"The intake of high GI carbohydrates (from both grain and non-grain sources) in large amounts is associated with an increased risk of heart disease in overweight and obese women even when fibre intake is high"
I've always recommended eating low-gi carbohydrates, like non-starchy vegetables. BTW, fruits are high-GI carbohydrates, troll.
it's not a study - it's an article indicating scientific reasoning for suspecting carcinogens in cooked red meat - something science has suspected a long time, but never proven.
It only suggest theory, and is not a study and is proof of nothing. I'm guessing you don't read the actual cancer journals, do you?
You were fishing and came up empty, I'm afraid. There is no proof that eating red meat causes cancer, NONE.
@LCHFinCanada You're lost in the world of Paleo / Atkins / etc. Low-carb high fat diets under different names, but same excuses. You keep saying you have the "real science" - yet you bring none to the table. No peer-reviewed articles proving your point, plenty proving mine- I let the facts speak for me.
I have no idea how one could have such a one-sided view of the world- it borders on the same ludicrousness as global warming skepticism.
@LCHFinCanada You keep calling me the "brainwashed" one, yet you are the one who's branding himself as LCHF. You just say everybody is wrong but you both PrimitiveNutrition, the scientific articles at PubMed, and any physician - yet you provide no information, nor articles, NOTHING yourself - You have zero credibility, you're an internet nobody, so when you don't back up your lies, nobody will believe you.
@LCHFinCanada I just checked through the pages - the only references you've made were to the AMA about RCTF and that's it - You've linked nothing, and the chat logs show it.
Funny you accuse me of the troll-tactic you're using, covering your own lack of research by burying it in the comments.
You mentioned Jack Lalanne I remember- He mostly avoided meat, only ingesting fish. He was a Pescetarian.
Just give up and go away, nobody will listen to your crap here.
@LCHFinCanada And your diet has no impact? Do you realize that grassfed cows are even more resource demanding in regards to the amount of land needed per cattle than those fed feed? Grass has very little nutrition so it takes a lot more of it to feed a cow than feed does. Not only would it be even more damaging to the enviroment than the current factory farming, but it would take even more food away from the hungry as land and forests are cleared for grassing pastures for your cattle.
@PerfectEclipse Land is not an issue, especially here in Canada.
More land is being used for soybeans. Monsanto is destroying the rainforest for soy production. Grass-fed is FAR less resource heavy, regardless of your propaganda.
@LCHFinCanada Lastly you are selfish not only because of the environmental aspect of your diet, but also for the ethical aspect - You're killing innocent beings so you can eat, and you DO have a choice in the matter. You're not an omnivore, never were, and if you studied the anatomy of animals you'd know what a true omnivore's intestines looks like. You're designed to eat fruits and vegetables, I'm sorry to break it to you, and you lack the teeth, nails, speed and strength to bring down prey.
@LCHFinCanada And stop calling for me to prove my point all the time when you have failed throughout this discussion to prove anything yourself, saying all the doctors, studies, articles, diets, etc. are wrong, backing your statement up with nothing - NOBODY will take your word for this, and Minger's and the other blog'o'sphere freaks words won't do either. You're living a lie, and your daughter will pay for it when you die from a stroke.
@LCHFinCanada Your link goes nowhere - And the fact that you take the AMA's word on Aspartame cements your status as a mindless follower troll. Don't think for yourself, it could prove deadly to your payroll.
And keep asking me for evidence even though I keep supplying it- where is yours? (the answer is, nowhere)
@PerfectEclipse FYI, I don't take the AMA's word for anything. Unlike you I research on my own. The clinical trials show aspartame is safe. Some observational trials lay doubt, but clinical > observational.
Myself though, I don't actually ingest aspartame. I do use Stevia and Eriyhritol however. Both proven safe.
@LCHFinCanada No thank you - The AMA's guidelines haven't exactly been the recipe for peak health these last many years, so no need to call them.
And all your experts like Minger, MasterJohn and Colpo have zero scientific credentials, and in the case of Minger, have been debunked by scientists, and by MasterJohn and Colpo, by other bloggers, like they are.
I'm beginning to think you're on a pay-roll here for spreading paleo propaganda here.
Or how about when the AMA said this "The AMA finds the recommendations of PCRM irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans."
Or this of the PCRM - "Instead, it serves only to advance the agenda of activist groups interested in perverting medical science. The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is an animal “rights” organization"
@LCHFinCanada The AMA is the same association that says Aspartame and other additives are fine, and they haven't done much to outlaw pesticides yet. Corporate interests have infiltrated everything in USA, including the AMA, and the fact that you're using them when they would say your diet is dangerous as well, is beyond words.
You just keep slapping down the basic criticisms with substance-less responses - What do you do about Uric acid- is your body immune perhaps?
@PerfectEclipse And actually, the AMA would have great things to say about my diet. If they commented on diets.
My own doctor says great things about my diet, as do many others. You obviously have NO IDEA what I eat, but you seem to have some assumptions, that's for sure...
@PerfectEclipse And actually, the AMA would have great things to say about my diet. If they commented on diets.
My own doctor says great things about my diet, as do many others. You obviously have NO IDEA what I eat, but you seem to have some assumptions, that's for sure...
The AMA's senior VP of science and medical education stated of the PCRM "“They are neither responsible nor are they physicians.”
Or the official AMA release "“the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine has been formally censured by the AMA for purposefully misrepresenting the critical role animals play in medical research.”
@LCHFinCanada Link your sources for the bullshit, or stop posting - You are just digging yourself into a hole- All I find when I search those sentences is other sites run by corporate meat.
Minger is discredited THE END - Stop beating a dead horse with her. She has zero scientific background, she admits it herself, and she has been shown wrong multiple times now- If you want sources I will gladly link pubmed articles, but you'll probably say the same shit about not controlling for variables.
@PerfectEclipse BTW not having an education is science doesn't mean you can't understand a research article. She proves she does, and T.Colin Campbell couldn't refute her. Do you not understand that.
Obviously you're not worth listening to since you obviously don't have any science background. See how well that argument works?
You're a troll spreading lies, misinformation and dogma. You have no credible science, NONE. Try to post some, I dare ya.
@LCHFinCanada Lol - You're the troll Mindless drone - I've linked sources from both Campbell himself discrediting her, and a cancer epidemiologist - Where are your sources?
@LCHFinCanada Lol - You're the troll Mindless drone - I've linked sources from both Campbell himself discrediting her, and a cancer epidemiologist - Where are your sources?
BTW, Jack Lalanne who wasn't vegan showed abs in his 90's... so ...what was your point again?
Oh, I remember... your point was making nonsensical arguments to try to combat science.
How's that going, btw? You've yet to refute anything I've said. It seems that you're just getting angry now. Probably the anger that comes from living in ignorance and denial. =)
Again, all the science backs those that eat meat. Present SOMETHING intelligent if you can, but at least try.
@LCHFinCanada Hollow talk coming from a misinformation spreader - Didn't you also link physicianscam(.)com earlier? A site made by The Center for Consumer Freedom, run by restaurants and the meat and dairy industry. Should this be a credible source on nutrition?
You're just digging a deeper and deeper hole here, and you fail to provide any semblance of credibility - Heck, where's your responce to @PrimitiveNutrition 's video series then?
I'd say "keep trying", by really, you should stop.
@LCHFinCanada Keep believing the dogma even though you deep-down know that Vegan is the most healthy, the most environmental, the most humanly ethic and ethic in regards to animal.
The world's toughest woman is also a vegan, wonder how that happened.
w w w . mfablog . org/2011/12/vegan-athlete-crowned-worlds-toughest-woman . html
BTW folks, the fact that Denise Minger DID debunk the China Study, and that Campbell can't refute her claims, shows just how crappy a book it is. (He wrote a book pushing his animal-activism agenda, based on a large observational study - but he left out all the data that didn't support his ideals.) Campbell is laughable.
And, if you don't like Minger, go read Masterjohn's critique. He was a PhD candidate when he wrote his and is more than qualified. Again, campbell doesn't refute him either.
Here's the truth, Eclipse: Veganism is healthier than SAD.
Veganism is NOT healthier than a healthy diet that eliminates refined/processed carbs/sugars, and includes lots of healthy veggies, fruit, nuts, healthy oils AND meat/fish/poultry/etc.
The science is clear. I've shown it so. You cannot dispute the science.
The ONLY argument vegans have is the ethical one - and that's one of personal opinion. The science is clear - it's healthier with meat.
So, as I've shown, every doctor in Forks over Knives is a member of the PCRM.
The PCRM is ONLY an animal-rights organization masquerading as a doctor's organization. They are funded by PETA and linked to animal-rights terrorist groups and have been censured as ONLY an animal-rights organization by the AMA.
As such, 'Forks over Knives' is animal-rights propaganda, and nothing more. I've shown you how incorrect their doctors are.
If you still wish to believe them, that's your ignorance.
physicianscam(dot)com/articles/7things.cfm has lots of information.
Here's what the AMA says:
”the recommendations of PCRM [are] irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans.”
In a separate public censure, the AMA ”continues to marvel at how effectively a fringe organization of questionable repute continues to hoodwink the media with a series of questionable research that fails to enhance public health.”
BTW every single doctor you mentioned is also a member of the PCRM. Not just a member, but on their advisory board (or in Barnard's case, the founder/director.)
You know the PCRM is ONLY an animal-rights organization, right?
Their membership has very few doctors (as little as 5 - 7.5% depending on whether you believe them or independent auditors).
the PCRM has been repeatedly censured by the American Medical Association, did you know that?
You can't get enough B12 as a vegan without supplementation. Meat eaters (if they don't have lack of intrinsic factor, yes) can get enough.
The results, studies show 80% of vegans are B12 deficient. That causes all sorts of health concerns.
Don't believe me? Dr. Neal Barnard gives his study patients B12. Dr. Esselstyn recommends B12 supplementation. Dr. McDougall recommends B12 Supplementation, and the list goes on. Vegans NEED B12 because their diet lacks what humans need.
Mormons have 22% LOWER rates of cancer OVERALL (all cancers) than Vegan Seventh-Day Adventists.
Mormons have 34% LOWER rates of colorectal cancer than the Vegen Seventh-Day Adventists.
If that's not proof enough, a 2009 study in the AJCN show that Vegetarians and Vegans had higher incidence of colo-rectal cancer than healthy dieters eating meat/fish.
The were shocked, so did further studies... 2010 studies confirmed that meat has protective qualities for colorectal cancer.
Vegans like to use those to show that Vegan Seventh-Day Adventists (who also don't smoke, don't drink, don't ingest caffeine and live a healthy, active lifestyle) have lower cancer rates, etc., than those eating a SAD.
That's great.
But Utah researchers took that data, then did a similar study on Mormons. The mormons also don't smoke, don't drink, don't ingest caffeine, live healthy lifestyles BUT EAT MEAT....
There aren't too many vegetarians on the Arctic tundra, or in the Kalahari Desert. Vegetarians can only exist in places of abundance where they can afford to be choosy.
@JDLupus I personally don't think I could kill an animal, so I stopped eating meat (felt like I was having someone do the dirty work for me; out of sight, out of mind etc). However I don't think eating meat is a crime and don't condemn people for doing so (as long as the animals are treated fairly though).
@dj ... I also like how you, like all the others, have no SCIENCE to back up your dogma. Refute anything I've said with science, thanks.
Oh, and nice of you to call people "stupid idiot" when you realize you have no intellectual argument. That's pretty typical of you militant vegans. Have no evidence, science or logic to back up your claim, so you name-call and belittle others. Great move. Touching. Shows you care about others.
@ZoldierrZzz I really hope you are just a young emotional vegetarian that will eventually grow up because you are really embarrassing the rest of us with your irrational thinking that your opinion is the standard code for morality and everyone should follow it.
For the other people please don't think that we are all crazy guys trying to force our own beliefs into others. Some of us just don't like meat.
"please don't think that we are all crazy guys trying to force our own beliefs into others"
Lol, you don't have to kiss their asses, you just want to be accepted. How pathetic. As I've repeatedly said, the only ones FORCING their will and beliefs onto others are the people who force animals to die. I am not forcing anyone to do anything, I'm just discussing these issues over the internet, I'm not standing with a butchers knife to their throat forcing them to go vegan. Stupid idiot.
@ZoldierrZzz If you're not trying to force anyone, then shut up and go away.
Thanks. If you keep going, you're TRYING to force your will upon another. Let's be honest, you'd LOVE a nanny-state where they outlaw meat products, wouldn't you? I know the PCRM would. They've pushed for it. So has PETA.
@ZoldierrZzz listen, I support the fact that you're trying to protect animals, I really do, but have you ever considered letting people have their own views instead of calling them evil, ignorant and immoral?People eat meat because they enjoy the taste. I know there are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian, but you trying to push your views on people isn't exactly going to convince the masses.Maybe try convincing people to cut down on meat consumption, rather than stop outright
@ZoldierrZzz really? because your way seems to not be working so maybe y his way? besides, ive already been down the path of moral values. your idea of evil is based of modern socitys view of it. which stems form Christiantys view of it. And Christianity allows the consumption of meat
You said my idea of evil stems from christianity, I told you that's bullshit. Veganism/animal rights is so far away from religion and very anti-religion, that you are so religious you wouldn't even understand why. Damn..!
@ZoldierrZzz ok, so being anti religion you therefore are atheist. so therefore you have to admit that morals re subjective not objective. so therefore your whole vegnisem idea goes down the drain. as Morales mean nothing therefore why concern yourself with the pain of others? but, the morels your using, that is to say you don't like the pain of animals. stems from Chrisitanty. because those Morales were widely spread by Christians
@ZoldierrZzz And these morels were accepted hundreds of year ago into society. our belief that murder is wrong stems form Christianity. as does yours then. so you claim your anit religious yet use morels that originated with Christianity? and you carry on caring about animals even though being an theist you have to accept objective morels do not exist therefore you have no reason to care about animals. especially as it has been proven that they....
@ZoldierrZzz are incapable of meta cognition as we are. meaning they can not feel pain or think and understand like we do, or anything like we do. infact, they are exactly like plans. merely reacting to stimuli and not inventing or feeling much or themselves. even monkeys are not capable of metagogniton
@ZoldierrZzz oh and animal rights are far away from religion. WHAT? i hope your joking, vegansiem might be but animal rights in general are not. eating animals does not make me hate them or not care when they are hurt for no reason. animal rights is compleatly different from veganisem or vegetarianism.
@LCHFinCanada Democracy?? Do you even know what that word fucking means? It is not about your opinion and you should have never had the decision. You should be killed in the same way as the animals you eat are. Whether you accept it or not, you are just an animal like all of us. It's your exact same attitude that the people in the south of the US had when the North wanted to end slavery. You fail to understand the feelings of anyone else in this situation but yourself.
@SatoriWins No he is not an animal. firstly to make that assumption you have to asume all religion are false. and i cna prove mine is not. well not 100% prove no one can but provide good evidence anyway. second. even from an atheistic view we are not technically animals as we, unlike ANY animals, have metacognition. animals simply react to stimuli like advanced plants we don't. well we do but are capable of much more than that.
@23045678 BTW it's not likely this nutjob will listen to ANY reason. The militant vegan zealots rarely do. They're brainwashed and keep spouting their dogma in the face of all contradictory evidence, all science, everything. They are completely unreasonable.
But good luck anyway. I think I'll go make a nice low-carb lasagne now (using zucchini instead of pasta) full of some nice grass-fed ground beef and free-range pork. Mmmm...
@LCHFinCanada Lol - Who's the brainwashed one here? All anthropoids (including humans) thrive on a high-carb, primarily fruit based diet with veggies - Meat and dairy induces cancer, osteoporosis, diabetes, heart disease and a host of other lifestyle related diseases (including weight issues). Educate yourself, read clinical scientific studies like The China study and watch some documentaries based on the science like Forks over Knives.
2. "read clinical scientific studies" - I do. You realize the China Study was a book based on a project that was only an OBSERVATIONAL study, right? Not a clinical study? And real, scientific CLINCAL studies disprove Campbell's theories? (they're only theories, yes.) Campbell excluded entire counties worth of data that disproved his theories.
Forks over knives is full of the same crap and lies.
Um... read the China Study? Campbell tells you it's observational. He was involved with it.
2. Minger, Colpo, Masterjohn and others have all debunked it. All can show you that he eliminated entire counties. Campbell admits he eliminated entire counties...
Is this really in dispute? The evidence is clear. Google "China Study" and any of the names above, as you know youtube doesn't like links.
Of course, you'll likely not look at any of them considering you LIKE ignorance
@LCHFinCanada And saying Forks over knives is full of crap just proves your ignorance, I guess Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Neal Barnard, etc. are liars too then?
Minger and co. didn't prove anything, PrimitiveNutrition completely debunked them and the paleo diet
To remain willfully ignorant in the face of truth is something often seen in low-carbers. Keep buying into meat industry propaganda and all the supplement salesmen's bullshit, I won't be surprised when you die from heart disease.
Lets start with Barnard, who claims a vegan diet reverses diabetes. You probably believe that claim, right? So it's good to start with:
Barnard's own clinical trial lasted 74 weeks, long enough to hopefully get great results. However, after 74 weeks his "reversal" was lowering HbA1c levels from 8.05% to 7.71% which isn't even healthy. Normal is 4.6% to 5.4%.
His diet did better than the ADA diet, but the ADA diet is crap.
@PerfectEclipse Further on Barnard: He refuses to test his vegan diet against a healthy low-carb diet. The ADA diet he used as control is recommended by pharmaceutical companies and food industries... every diabetic knows it's crap.
ALL CLINICAL STUDIES COMPARING LOW-CARB TO LOW-FAT SHOW LOW-CARB IS VASTLY SUPERIOR FOR GLYCEMIC CONTROL, WEIGHT-LOSS AND HEART-HEALTH.
Sorry, but that's just the truth and you can't debunk it, can you?
@PerfectEclipse Esselstyn gave his patients STATIN drugs, which alone could account for his "miraculous" changes. Statins are shown to also help reverse atherosclerosis, or didn't you know that.
Also, Esselstyn used 2D images of a 3D space, which isn't proof of reversal in and of itself. Ask any cardiologist. If you know any.
I do. Working in the health industry I know several, and have done the research myself.
@PerfectEclipse Let's go back go Barnard a second... very tiny reduction in HbA1c from 8.05 to 7.71% after 74 weeks...
Japanese researchers recently conducted research on diabetic outpatients put on a low-carb diet. These were severe diabetics too (Barnard refused to use anyone in his study with HbA1c over 10.0)
they went from HbA1c of over 10% to 7% range in only 3 months. VASTLY better changes than Barnards study, in 1/5th the time.
@LCHFinCanada Where is your evidence then? I see none. Pubmed searches easily show vast amounts of peer reviewed studies linking meat consumption to cancer, the same goes for saturated fat and heart disease.
@LCHFinCanada Despite your attempts to disprove the true experts, where are your credentials may I ask? "I work in the field" won't cut it, and unless you put your name on the line nobody will take you serious.
Even unprocessed meat from grass-fed cows will garner the same reaction while it is decomposing inside of you, acidifying your body, increasing uric acid, and demanding calcium to be leeched from your bones. The Masai had heart disease and they sure ate lots of unprocessed meats too!
@LCHFinCanada Listen, you can keep trying to throw around your misinformation and look through your bullshit-goggles, but common sense wins out. Are we not Anthropoids? Do all anthropoids not thrive on a high carb diet (mostly fruit based)?
On all accounts, a high-carb vegan diet wins out over any other - Health, Fitness, Ethics (both animal and human), the Environment, etc. are all much better off on this diet.
But keep munching on your grass-fed beef and drinking the olive-oil.
@PerfectEclipse durianrider is so full of crap... if you believe him over science, there's no help for you.
He is the most complete mis-information troll on the internet. He spews only junk, and when debunked he deletes comments and bans accounts. How is THAT scientific?
Besides, he looks unhealthy.
Danzig has only been vegan a little while. We'll see if he stays that way. Carl lewis claims he's vegan - but there's no evidence, and he was fastest as non-vegan.
@LCHFinCanada And lastly, I take my advice from people getting the results that I desire like @Durianriders, Mac Danzig, Carl Lewis, etc. who are top athletes who all thrive on high carb diets - Durianrider even had his Vo2 Max increased through just living high-carb raw vegan, something most athletes have to turn to drugs to achieve.
@LCHFinCanada Anyone can write numbers like you did - I won't believe a thing you say without credentials. My evidence lies in studies like the China Study and PubMed articles. And in regards to Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Neal Barnard (and probably Dr. Ornish too in your opinion I'd bet) not being scientific, I can only say Statistical significance, have you heard of this term? If so you'd know there is no refuting stuff like the China study.
@LCHFinCanada And it is laughable that you'd claim @Durianriders a misinformation spreader when he's getting the results you'd kill 1.000 oxen for, and fail to achieve, while you at the same time say people like Minger, an English Masters student whose barely out of her teens has debunked The China study, which took more years to conduct than she has lived - Laughable doesn't even cover it mate.
I hate to keep pointing out the truth, but I lost nearly 100lbs eating low-carb, and kept it off. I can see my abs at 46 years old. I can ride a bicycle 100km in sub 3.5hours and did a 106km ride over 14% mountain grades in Canada in just over 4 hours.
Minger DID debunk it, btw, as did others. What's your issue, ever READ her critique? T. Colin Campbell did and he was IMPRESSED and couldn't refute her.
@LCHFinCanada You just keep flapping your mouth about your evidence - Where is your peer reviewed Journals? I'd love to read through them. And the science is clear in regards to how meat breaks down in the body, and I've stated it before in my responses, but perhaps it didn't break through your meat-clouded vision to begin with? When you break down meat and it decomposes in you, your blood becomes acidic (uric acid). This has a host of health problems associated with it, such as osteoporosis.
@LCHFinCanada And in regards to seeing your abs at 46, I'm not really impressed - Vegans show abs at 76.
w w w . get-thin-for-good . com/wordpress/2011/11/18/the-76-year-old-vegan-bodybuilder-who-looks-like-a-50-year-old/
Keep trying though.
Also, you are still a nobody who backs up nothing you're posting - Durianriders even posts his bloodwork online and shows his results up front- You're nothing but hollow talk spoken by a carnist
@PerfectEclipse how does anything you've said disprove what I've said?
Answer: it doesn't.
You're still living in denial. The bodybuilder you mention wasn't always vegan, BTW and is big because of massive quantities of anabolic steroids. He's managed to maintain much of the muscle he generated while on anabolic steroids. Don't believe me? Read his interviews. He openly talks about it.
Who's got the hollow-talk? You've got NOTHING, sorry.
@LCHFinCanada I'll tell you who's laughable, you, Minger and any other nobody who attacks science with ignorance. Have you read the response by Dr. T. Colin Campbell himself?
w w w . vegsource . com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger . html
Or perhaps the Cancer Epidemiologist who refutes Denise Mingers China Study Claims?
w w w . 30bananasaday . com/group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/a-cancer-epidemiologist?xg_source=activity
@SatorIWins "You should be killed in the same way as the animals you eat are. "
Really? Because I'm suddenly livestock, am I? Your arguments are just stupid.
And you talk of slavery? We're humans raising livestock. It's not the same as slavery.
Get over yourself and stop trying to force your opinions on others. Meat is a healthy part of the diet - you can't face that, too bad. You don't have to eat it.
There are different forms of coercion. You are, at any rate, presenting your own ethical creed as though it were objectively and universally true. You've not attempted to analyse your morals against other moral systems, nor against the notions that moral statements are meaningless/relative/false/subjective/non-cognitive.
@p3rs0nan0ngrata sort of true, morals are only subjective if you believe there is no God, if you do relive there is a God, then, morals are objective, even so, you must then not present your own morals as objective s he is doing, but, rather portray your God's morals. which, he is not doing it seems
Wow... when you say "you are selfish, immoral, stupid and ignorant. Just like rapists and murderers who abuse, rape and kill the innocent for their own unnecessary personal gain." you present only an EMOTIONAL opinion, and not a very compelling one.
This is the problem with vegan activists, they actually give veganism a bad name.
It's not an emotional opinion, but a fact. You can't deal with that because you feel attacked. Killing animals is unnecessary for human survival, just like rape. Killing an animal is horrible for the animal, just like rape is for the victim. Humans kill animals for personal gain, just like rapists rape for personal gain. Humans don't care about the animals they kill, rapists don't care about the people they rape. Humans justify killing animals for stupid reasons, same with rapists.
It's funny, cause it's true.
rogierstrobbe 1 day ago
Am I the only vegatarian capeable of laughing at this?!
DaniStarEngland 2 days ago 5
@DaniStarEngland Snap. I hate it when people are vegetarian for the wrong reasons and shout it from the rooftops and look down their noses at others.
qwersdxqwersdx 1 day ago
@DaniStarEngland if you can laugh at this, surely you have the logic to not be a vegetarian?
PaladinswordSaurfang 1 day ago
@PaladinswordSaurfang
If you can laugh at this and still be a vegatarian then you just realise that comedy and ethical debate isn't the same thing...
TheOmegajuice 8 hours ago
@TheOmegajuice But you wouldn't find it funny if you disagreed with it...
PaladinswordSaurfang 6 hours ago
@PaladinswordSaurfang
I am a vegetarian and I do find it quite funny.
TheOmegajuice 6 hours ago
@PaladinswordSaurfang ...Really?! Comedy isn't about where you stand on a point, its just about being funny. Obviously if you have extremely strong views on something you MAY not like what's being said to the point your distaste overshadows the humour, but really, if you can't laugh at something just because you disagree with it on some level you really need to lighten up.
squaaah 2 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Vegetarian: Ancient tribal slang for village idiot who can't hunt, fish, or ride.
TheIronman1995 2 days ago
Go vegan.
knowthetruth1492 2 days ago
Anyone else curious about how cat would taste?
This made me hungry...
LrdRomega 3 days ago
If ever a lightweight comedy sketch was designed to provoke a storm of Youtube comments fury, then this is it. All seems to be getting a bit hot under the collar doesn't it? Personally I'm a crockerian, I only eat broken crockery.
podfunk 3 days ago 3
No, but thanks for playing, captain crazy-pants.
100 myths? UM... every single one of those "myths" was a peer-reviewed scientific study... but hey, you're crazy so I figure that's nothing you'll be interested in.
Crazy, crazy, crazy.
Vegan nutjob crazy.
Yay crazy. We love crazy.
AlbertaBeefy 3 days ago
So what if he died of a stroke... so do many vegetarians...
BTW, how do you debunk his science? He has hundreds of links on that page - I just checked it out myself... Can you debunk any of that other than saying "he was a member of weston a price.."
At least the foundation has medical experts. Durianrider is just a moron. You ignore medical experts and believe in drug-addict morons and think that's great?
No wonder LCHF called you delusional...
AlbertaBeefy 3 days ago
@AlbertaBeefy LCHF, is this you under a new troll account? I believe it is. Don't pat yourself on the back like this across accounts, it just make you look like an idiot.
There were no links, only a list of 100 myths. All the links LCHF (=you) have provided beside the stuff to anti-vegetarian/Vegan sites and Weston A, Price foundation sites were blank, lead nowhere. Just give it up already. And Minger has been put to rest by Campbell himself and several experts in her comments ON HER BLOG.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
LCHF - dude, seriously give up. The delusional won't accept facts. they never do. they are, after all, delusional.
It's interesting you asked him to debunk Minger, Masterjohn, Colpo, Mercola, etc. and all he can do is say "Minger has no credibility"
They keep trying to hide the truth by focusing on other things... Minger debunked campbell beautifully, as did the others. Campbell wrote a piece of fiction, passed off as a study...
AlbertaBeefy 3 days ago
It's interesting that someone who CLAIMS to know the truth won't actually research on his own... It's obvious you've been spoon-fed all your dogma, and chosen to believe it without doing any critical thinking.
This is quite common with vegan animal-rights activists. Trolls with no critical thinking ability, nor the ability to read or analyze science.
It makes me sad for all of you like this person.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
I gave you ALL the information you needed to find all the articles, you're just too lazy to do it.
roflmao you're not just delusional, you're lazy.
cya.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
And with that, I'm done with you. You're obviously an animal-activist troll.
You can attempt to bury the truth, but the truth remains. You have no science backing up your claims, you have illogical, nonsensical arguments and you refuse to look at the science that shows you wrong.
You blindly follow your vegan gurus, even though they are all animal-activists associated with known terrorist groups. Good for you. Live in your delusion, Own It! yay!
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
You've yet to disprove ANY of the links I've provided, and I've now provided them again.
So, what is you're point? That your persistent in your delusion? Seems to be...
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Hahahahaha- Hilarious, only one of your links worked, and it was to The Myths of Vegetarianism - written by Stephen Byrnes, a member of the Dr. Weston A. Price Foundation, an LCHF believer who, surprise surprise, died of a stroke.
You are really making my day here - I haven't laughed this hard in ages.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
Once again, every argument you've tried to make regarding health-related issues of meat is debunked.
Care to try some more? You're certainly determined, though obviously not well-studied or familiar with science.
I guarantee EVERY argument you make either I or someone else will shoot down with science and fact. All you have is propaganda and dogma.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
If you really research the two major studies of the Masai, you'll find that Taylor's studies in the 1950's were of masai eating a more traditional diet, and far away from western influence.
In George Mann's study in the 70's however, he reported:
"The old and the young Masai do have some access to such processed staples as flour, sugar, confections and shortenings through the Indian dukas scattered about Masailand."
You seem to believe propaganda without reading the truth. That's ignorance.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse
As for the masai - READ the studies. The 1950's studies done on the masai showed little to no atherosclerosis. This was of masai eating a traditional diet. Period.
The later study by George Mann studied masai that, by the 1970's, were introduced to more agriculture - grains, etc., not traditionally associated with their diet.
Even though they had atherosclerosis, they HAD NO HEART ATTACKS. This is evidence of the protective quality of meats.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
Stupid video.
xLiLxxBitx 3 days ago
My daughter is now telling me to stop picking on the retards, roflmao.
What's funny is stupid people don't seem to know when they're stupid. So she's got a point - there's not much point to this.
It's like arguing with a brainwashed cult member - they just refuse to see truth when it's right in front of them.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
And for the people that believe red meat is "linked" to cancer. I need to point out correlation does not prove causation.
I'll also point out that with BILLIONS of people eating millions of pounds of red meat every year, and hundreds of studies being done, there's never been ANY study that proves red meat causes cancer.
Yet there's been studies that disprove it. (2009, 2010 Amer.Journ.Clinical.Nutrition, 7th-day-adventist vs. mormon, etc.)
So to continue arguing it is pretty stupid of you.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
Vegetarians are also known as freaks
Izaak247 4 days ago
@Izaak247 actually most vegetarians are nice people. Same with most vegans.
The one's showing up on YouTube however are most-often not just vegans, but militant brainwashed animal-activists trying to use science to prove their point.
The fact is there is no health reason for vegetarian/vegan diets over a healthy diet that includes meat/fish/. There's also no true environmental reason. The only thing I won't refute is their personal opinion. However, I'm also entitled to mine.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada What's most funny is a self-righteous paleo zealot like yourself just flat out refusing to believe any and all evidence that meat induces cancer. It's obvious to any and all who look at panel data of countries, does a correlation study, and finds that low-protein (=meat) consuming countries like India, China, and other south-east Asian countries have low cancer rates, more westernize countries with high intake has high, and that meat is STRONGLY correlated. Stay blind, ignoramus.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse What's *really* funny is the assumptions you make. I'm NOT paleo. This proves to show your ANTI-PALEO bias.
Western countries don't only eat more meat, Eclipse... they eat MORE REFINED/PROCESSED CARBS/SUGARS which are showing more and more to be the problem.
When all evidence points to meat being healthy, and as primitive peoples start to get refined/processed carbs/sugars in their diet they get cancer, it's NOT the meat that's the issue.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Also, good on you for reading it yourself- What is your scientific background? Do you even have any sort of schooling to back up yourself? I doubt it.
And what the fuck - NO ENVIRONMENTAL REASON? are you completely lost on the reality of the world? it takes 16 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat. If we stopped all meat production we could feed the world and stop global warming.
Paleo is the most selfish diet that exists, but I guess it'll take a heart attack to change you
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Actually, it doesn't take any grain to produce meat. None. All meat could be pasture-raised.
I agree factory farming is atrocious, but it's not the only way to farm. As such, your argument is only valid for factory farming, not for grass-fed/pasture-raised meat which is what I eat and what I recommend we all eat.
Most paleo don't eat factory-farmed either, so how are they selfish? You don't seem to know WHAT you're talking about at all.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada It also shows your extreme desperation that you'd lie about the Masai article, the article is from 1972 and they were tribal masai.
Your ignorance knows no bounds, and you've shown yourself to be an effective meat-propaganda wagon - though you never addressed the concerns of Ethics, and environmental damage. @PrimitiveNutrition proved the paleo diet to be one "to die for" (literally), and none of your bloggers have been able to refute him (nor will they be).
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse primitivenutrition proved nothing. His stuff is also cherry-picked, observational and he, like you, refuses to see any real science.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada
Meat consumption and the risk of incident distal colon and rectal adenoma
w w w . nature . com /bjc/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/bjc2011549a . html
Association between reported diet and all-cause mortality.
w w w . ncbi . nlm . nih . gov/pubmed/6720674
Associations between diet and cancer, ischemic heart disease, and all-cause mortality in non-Hispanic white California
w w w . ajcn . org/content/70/3/532S . long
I guess your daughter should hope the "retards" wake you up.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse again, every study you've reported is observational and full of confounding variables.
You can only prove something with clinical trials - RCT's to be exact. If you refuse to admit that, there's no helping you. Your bias is clear, and your science is obviously faulty to everybody but you.
You're not using logical arguments, your arguing emotionally, grasping at any straw, regardless of the fact they prove nothing.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
... I'm still waiting for your scientific rebuttals, eclipse.
Still waiting for your clinical trials, randomized with controls, showing me to be incorrect. Did you find any yet?
... because dogma will not get you far with those of us who have chosen to be educated.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada
ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN THE MASAI
aje . oxfordjournals . org /content/95/1/26
A Cancer Epidemiologist refutes Denise Mingers China Study Claims
w w w . 30bananasaday . com /group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/a-cancer-epidemiologist?xg_source=activity
Cereal grains and legumes in the prevention of coronary heart disease and stroke
w w w . ncbi . nlm . nih . gov /pubmed/16670693
Red meat consumption and cancer
w w w . ncbi . nlm . nih . gov /pubmed/22212999
Bye Troll.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse If you READ the atherosclerosis study, it was on Masai that have been introduced to a western diet.
Look instead at studies of masai eating a TRADITIONAL diet.
Regarding the Minger-debunked link... wow, she used unadjusted data... THE SAME THING CAMPBELL DID??? Do you know how stupid an argument that is? Campbell did THE SAME DAMN THING, roflmao!!!!!
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse The 16670693 pubmed says NOTHING about meat being unhealthy, and backs up my claims in fact, when it says:
"The intake of high GI carbohydrates (from both grain and non-grain sources) in large amounts is associated with an increased risk of heart disease in overweight and obese women even when fibre intake is high"
I've always recommended eating low-gi carbohydrates, like non-starchy vegetables. BTW, fruits are high-GI carbohydrates, troll.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Regarding the 22212999 pubmed article...
it's not a study - it's an article indicating scientific reasoning for suspecting carcinogens in cooked red meat - something science has suspected a long time, but never proven.
It only suggest theory, and is not a study and is proof of nothing. I'm guessing you don't read the actual cancer journals, do you?
You were fishing and came up empty, I'm afraid. There is no proof that eating red meat causes cancer, NONE.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada You're lost in the world of Paleo / Atkins / etc. Low-carb high fat diets under different names, but same excuses. You keep saying you have the "real science" - yet you bring none to the table. No peer-reviewed articles proving your point, plenty proving mine- I let the facts speak for me.
I have no idea how one could have such a one-sided view of the world- it borders on the same ludicrousness as global warming skepticism.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse How the freaking heck can you not see all the science I've shown you?
Are you blind, or just retarded????? OMG you're so full of it.
I've presented you with articles, links, studies, all peer-reviewed and you won't read them, that's not my problem, that's yours.
Please stop your lying.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada You keep calling me the "brainwashed" one, yet you are the one who's branding himself as LCHF. You just say everybody is wrong but you both PrimitiveNutrition, the scientific articles at PubMed, and any physician - yet you provide no information, nor articles, NOTHING yourself - You have zero credibility, you're an internet nobody, so when you don't back up your lies, nobody will believe you.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Why do you keep saying I have no articles? I've linked you several?
You're blind.
Oh wait, I get it, you hope if you post enough trolling comments, now that they're buried several pages back nobody will see them.
That's your final strategy, eh? I've posted SEVERAL studies, links, proof, etc. and you know damn well I have.
No point arguing with you anymore, propagandist.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada I just checked through the pages - the only references you've made were to the AMA about RCTF and that's it - You've linked nothing, and the chat logs show it.
Funny you accuse me of the troll-tactic you're using, covering your own lack of research by burying it in the comments.
You mentioned Jack Lalanne I remember- He mostly avoided meat, only ingesting fish. He was a Pescetarian.
Just give up and go away, nobody will listen to your crap here.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada And your diet has no impact? Do you realize that grassfed cows are even more resource demanding in regards to the amount of land needed per cattle than those fed feed? Grass has very little nutrition so it takes a lot more of it to feed a cow than feed does. Not only would it be even more damaging to the enviroment than the current factory farming, but it would take even more food away from the hungry as land and forests are cleared for grassing pastures for your cattle.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Land is not an issue, especially here in Canada.
More land is being used for soybeans. Monsanto is destroying the rainforest for soy production. Grass-fed is FAR less resource heavy, regardless of your propaganda.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
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PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
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@LCHFinCanada Lastly you are selfish not only because of the environmental aspect of your diet, but also for the ethical aspect - You're killing innocent beings so you can eat, and you DO have a choice in the matter. You're not an omnivore, never were, and if you studied the anatomy of animals you'd know what a true omnivore's intestines looks like. You're designed to eat fruits and vegetables, I'm sorry to break it to you, and you lack the teeth, nails, speed and strength to bring down prey.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@LCHFinCanada And stop calling for me to prove my point all the time when you have failed throughout this discussion to prove anything yourself, saying all the doctors, studies, articles, diets, etc. are wrong, backing your statement up with nothing - NOBODY will take your word for this, and Minger's and the other blog'o'sphere freaks words won't do either. You're living a lie, and your daughter will pay for it when you die from a stroke.
PerfectEclipse 3 days ago
@PerfectEclipse You've lied. You've misinformed. You've assumed.
You've linked to studies showing NOTHING, all debunked. Yet you persist. And nobody will take MY word?
I hate to tell you this, but just because YOU'RE a delusional, brainwashed zealot doesn't mean others are.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
BTW, what's your issue with aspartame? It's the most studied food additive in the world with absolutely no verifiable links to any issue.
Did you read the AMA reports on it in the journal? I have. years ago, in fact.
archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/149/10/2318
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Your link goes nowhere - And the fact that you take the AMA's word on Aspartame cements your status as a mindless follower troll. Don't think for yourself, it could prove deadly to your payroll.
And keep asking me for evidence even though I keep supplying it- where is yours? (the answer is, nowhere)
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse FYI, I don't take the AMA's word for anything. Unlike you I research on my own. The clinical trials show aspartame is safe. Some observational trials lay doubt, but clinical > observational.
Myself though, I don't actually ingest aspartame. I do use Stevia and Eriyhritol however. Both proven safe.
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
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@PerfectEclipse "And keep asking me for evidence even though I keep supplying it- where is yours? (the answer is, nowhere)"
Um... WHAT? Are you nuts? You've yet to provide evidence of anything. See my rebuttals to your links.
What are your rebuttals to mine?
Or are you going to continue using the ever-popular "Because I said so!" argument that you and other vegans like to use??
LCHFinCanada 3 days ago
BTW, feel free to CALL THE AMA yourself for verification.
Their website is easily found.They'll happily verify everything I've said if you have trouble believing it.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada No thank you - The AMA's guidelines haven't exactly been the recipe for peak health these last many years, so no need to call them.
And all your experts like Minger, MasterJohn and Colpo have zero scientific credentials, and in the case of Minger, have been debunked by scientists, and by MasterJohn and Colpo, by other bloggers, like they are.
I'm beginning to think you're on a pay-roll here for spreading paleo propaganda here.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
Or how about when the AMA said this "The AMA finds the recommendations of PCRM irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans."
Or this of the PCRM - "Instead, it serves only to advance the agenda of activist groups interested in perverting medical science. The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is an animal “rights” organization"
Do you still dispute this? Denial much?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada The AMA is the same association that says Aspartame and other additives are fine, and they haven't done much to outlaw pesticides yet. Corporate interests have infiltrated everything in USA, including the AMA, and the fact that you're using them when they would say your diet is dangerous as well, is beyond words.
You just keep slapping down the basic criticisms with substance-less responses - What do you do about Uric acid- is your body immune perhaps?
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse I have excellent uric acid levels, thanks.
What, do you think uric acid only comes from meats? LOL. You realize that purines are found in peas, beans, beer and wine too, right?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
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@PerfectEclipse I have excellent uric acid levels, thanks.
What, do you think uric acid only comes from meats? LOL. You realize that purines are found in peas, beans, beer and wine too, right?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse And actually, the AMA would have great things to say about my diet. If they commented on diets.
My own doctor says great things about my diet, as do many others. You obviously have NO IDEA what I eat, but you seem to have some assumptions, that's for sure...
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
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@PerfectEclipse And actually, the AMA would have great things to say about my diet. If they commented on diets.
My own doctor says great things about my diet, as do many others. You obviously have NO IDEA what I eat, but you seem to have some assumptions, that's for sure...
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
The AMA's senior VP of science and medical education stated of the PCRM "“They are neither responsible nor are they physicians.”
Or the official AMA release "“the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine has been formally censured by the AMA for purposefully misrepresenting the critical role animals play in medical research.”
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Link your sources for the bullshit, or stop posting - You are just digging yourself into a hole- All I find when I search those sentences is other sites run by corporate meat.
Minger is discredited THE END - Stop beating a dead horse with her. She has zero scientific background, she admits it herself, and she has been shown wrong multiple times now- If you want sources I will gladly link pubmed articles, but you'll probably say the same shit about not controlling for variables.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse The source is the AMA. The American Medical Association.
The quotes are easy to find, all the material is easily verifiable. Not bullshit, just cold, hard facts.
How is Minger discredited? By whom? Campbell was impressed.
How is Masterjohn discredited?
How is colpo discredited?
How is mercola discredited (other than he sells stuff, but then again, so does durianrider, mcdougall, barnard, esselstyn, campbell etc.)
Sources thanks.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse BTW not having an education is science doesn't mean you can't understand a research article. She proves she does, and T.Colin Campbell couldn't refute her. Do you not understand that.
Obviously you're not worth listening to since you obviously don't have any science background. See how well that argument works?
You're a troll spreading lies, misinformation and dogma. You have no credible science, NONE. Try to post some, I dare ya.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Lol - You're the troll Mindless drone - I've linked sources from both Campbell himself discrediting her, and a cancer epidemiologist - Where are your sources?
30bananasaday . com/group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/a-cancer-epidemiologist?xg_source=activity
ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN THE MASAI
aje . oxfordjournals . org/content/95/1/26
Prove @PrimiteNutrition wrong to while you're at it, though there's no doubt it's a futile effort.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
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@LCHFinCanada Lol - You're the troll Mindless drone - I've linked sources from both Campbell himself discrediting her, and a cancer epidemiologist - Where are your sources?
30bananasaday . com/group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/a-cancer-epidemiologist?xg_source=activity
ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN THE MASAI
aje . oxfordjournals . org /content/95/1/26
Prove @PrimiteNutrition wrong to while you're at it, though there's no doubt it's a futile effort.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse BTW please provide any evidence showing minger was "shown wrong multiple times now"
I'd love to see how you figure THAT. Considering your lack of understanding of science this should be very interesting.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
BTW, Jack Lalanne who wasn't vegan showed abs in his 90's... so ...what was your point again?
Oh, I remember... your point was making nonsensical arguments to try to combat science.
How's that going, btw? You've yet to refute anything I've said. It seems that you're just getting angry now. Probably the anger that comes from living in ignorance and denial. =)
Again, all the science backs those that eat meat. Present SOMETHING intelligent if you can, but at least try.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Hollow talk coming from a misinformation spreader - Didn't you also link physicianscam(.)com earlier? A site made by The Center for Consumer Freedom, run by restaurants and the meat and dairy industry. Should this be a credible source on nutrition?
You're just digging a deeper and deeper hole here, and you fail to provide any semblance of credibility - Heck, where's your responce to @PrimitiveNutrition 's video series then?
I'd say "keep trying", by really, you should stop.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Also, we are in the primate order, so in essence we are like all other anthropoids who thrive on high carb fruit based diets.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse except we're HUMANS, of a different species...
But yup, we're still ominivores.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Keep believing the dogma even though you deep-down know that Vegan is the most healthy, the most environmental, the most humanly ethic and ethic in regards to animal.
The world's toughest woman is also a vegan, wonder how that happened.
w w w . mfablog . org/2011/12/vegan-athlete-crowned-worlds-toughest-woman . html
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse again, where is the science backing up your claim?
I don't spout dogma or anecdotal evidence, that's YOU.
Grow up and think for yourself.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Actually, I have responded to his series, but I refuse to entertain all of them.
Denise Minger responded too, quite well. He also uses psuedo science and misinformation.
Here's the deal, you keep mentioning my "hollow-talk" and my "mininformation" yet you show now science that can refute me?
As for the CCF ... ok, instead let's just go on the AMA's words...
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
BTW folks, the fact that Denise Minger DID debunk the China Study, and that Campbell can't refute her claims, shows just how crappy a book it is. (He wrote a book pushing his animal-activism agenda, based on a large observational study - but he left out all the data that didn't support his ideals.) Campbell is laughable.
And, if you don't like Minger, go read Masterjohn's critique. He was a PhD candidate when he wrote his and is more than qualified. Again, campbell doesn't refute him either.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
Here's the truth, Eclipse: Veganism is healthier than SAD.
Veganism is NOT healthier than a healthy diet that eliminates refined/processed carbs/sugars, and includes lots of healthy veggies, fruit, nuts, healthy oils AND meat/fish/poultry/etc.
The science is clear. I've shown it so. You cannot dispute the science.
The ONLY argument vegans have is the ethical one - and that's one of personal opinion. The science is clear - it's healthier with meat.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
Are we anthropoids? No. What a dumb question.
Antropoids are apes, simians that resemble humans. we ARE humans.
Where would you get the extremely UNSCIENTIFIC idea we are anthorpoids?
Even so, all anthropoids are omnivores. But we're not.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
Your beloved vegan doctors, Barnard, Esselstyn, McDougall, etc. are nothing but animal-rights activists 1st, doctors 2nd.
Their own studies are poor science, as I've demonstrated. They don't even use the scientific method, and test against poor controls if at all.
Barnard didn't reverse diabetes - thus he's a liar.
Esselstyn didn't prove a vegan diet reversed heart-disease. Confounding variables.
For you or anyone to buy into this bunk in the face of all contrary evidence is ridiculous.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
So, as I've shown, every doctor in Forks over Knives is a member of the PCRM.
The PCRM is ONLY an animal-rights organization masquerading as a doctor's organization. They are funded by PETA and linked to animal-rights terrorist groups and have been censured as ONLY an animal-rights organization by the AMA.
As such, 'Forks over Knives' is animal-rights propaganda, and nothing more. I've shown you how incorrect their doctors are.
If you still wish to believe them, that's your ignorance.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
physicianscam(dot)com/articles/7things.cfm has lots of information.
Here's what the AMA says:
”the recommendations of PCRM [are] irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans.”
In a separate public censure, the AMA ”continues to marvel at how effectively a fringe organization of questionable repute continues to hoodwink the media with a series of questionable research that fails to enhance public health.”
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
BTW every single doctor you mentioned is also a member of the PCRM. Not just a member, but on their advisory board (or in Barnard's case, the founder/director.)
You know the PCRM is ONLY an animal-rights organization, right?
Their membership has very few doctors (as little as 5 - 7.5% depending on whether you believe them or independent auditors).
the PCRM has been repeatedly censured by the American Medical Association, did you know that?
Want to know what for?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
You can't get enough B12 as a vegan without supplementation. Meat eaters (if they don't have lack of intrinsic factor, yes) can get enough.
The results, studies show 80% of vegans are B12 deficient. That causes all sorts of health concerns.
Don't believe me? Dr. Neal Barnard gives his study patients B12. Dr. Esselstyn recommends B12 supplementation. Dr. McDougall recommends B12 Supplementation, and the list goes on. Vegans NEED B12 because their diet lacks what humans need.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
The results were:
Mormons have 22% LOWER rates of cancer OVERALL (all cancers) than Vegan Seventh-Day Adventists.
Mormons have 34% LOWER rates of colorectal cancer than the Vegen Seventh-Day Adventists.
If that's not proof enough, a 2009 study in the AJCN show that Vegetarians and Vegans had higher incidence of colo-rectal cancer than healthy dieters eating meat/fish.
The were shocked, so did further studies... 2010 studies confirmed that meat has protective qualities for colorectal cancer.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
So, how about the Seventh-Day Adventist studies.
Vegans like to use those to show that Vegan Seventh-Day Adventists (who also don't smoke, don't drink, don't ingest caffeine and live a healthy, active lifestyle) have lower cancer rates, etc., than those eating a SAD.
That's great.
But Utah researchers took that data, then did a similar study on Mormons. The mormons also don't smoke, don't drink, don't ingest caffeine, live healthy lifestyles BUT EAT MEAT....
Can you guess the results???
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
heroic
agingerforpresident 4 days ago
another great video with bunch of asshole using it for their own agendas... pathetic
Dekan 4 days ago
There aren't too many vegetarians on the Arctic tundra, or in the Kalahari Desert. Vegetarians can only exist in places of abundance where they can afford to be choosy.
darebinroad 5 days ago
As cliché as it is to say 481 people are vegetarians... it's probably true.
JDLupus 1 week ago 16
@JDLupus Nope, I liked this.
195ashes 4 days ago
@195ashes It's a shame a mind like yours is so rare...
JDLupus 4 days ago
@JDLupus I personally don't think I could kill an animal, so I stopped eating meat (felt like I was having someone do the dirty work for me; out of sight, out of mind etc). However I don't think eating meat is a crime and don't condemn people for doing so (as long as the animals are treated fairly though).
195ashes 4 days ago
I used to be a vegan like you, but then a cow took an arrow to the knee.
And I ate it.
yellowblood 1 week ago
LOL I'm a vegan and I still think this is HILARIOUS! LOL
ladylunafication 1 week ago 6
@ladylunafication Thank you for your approval. Didn't want to laugh until you came...
TheSmokingBass 1 week ago
All their stuff is so clever and funny!! :D
JulkaWilCZuR 1 week ago
Classic. fucking vegetarians
LaxRatBra 1 week ago
@LaxRatBra Classic troll
igirlgeek 1 week ago
@igirlgeek Your british your argument is invalid.
LaxRatBra 1 week ago
@LaxRatBra Trololol. 0/10. Terrible attempt.
GraffitiBMXskate 1 week ago
@GraffitiBMXskate Go back to 9gag. I'll be eating some burgers.
LaxRatBra 1 week ago
@LaxRatBra 9gag on my cock, failtroll. P.s what is 9gag?
GraffitiBMXskate 1 week ago
@GraffitiBMXskate a site that takes jokes/funny images from all over the net and claims them as their own and slaps their stupid watermark on it.
Scyle92 1 week ago
@dj ... I also like how you, like all the others, have no SCIENCE to back up your dogma. Refute anything I've said with science, thanks.
Oh, and nice of you to call people "stupid idiot" when you realize you have no intellectual argument. That's pretty typical of you militant vegans. Have no evidence, science or logic to back up your claim, so you name-call and belittle others. Great move. Touching. Shows you care about others.
LCHFinCanada 1 week ago
@ZoldierrZzz I really hope you are just a young emotional vegetarian that will eventually grow up because you are really embarrassing the rest of us with your irrational thinking that your opinion is the standard code for morality and everyone should follow it.
For the other people please don't think that we are all crazy guys trying to force our own beliefs into others. Some of us just don't like meat.
TheYelIow 1 week ago
@TheYelIow
"please don't think that we are all crazy guys trying to force our own beliefs into others"
Lol, you don't have to kiss their asses, you just want to be accepted. How pathetic. As I've repeatedly said, the only ones FORCING their will and beliefs onto others are the people who force animals to die. I am not forcing anyone to do anything, I'm just discussing these issues over the internet, I'm not standing with a butchers knife to their throat forcing them to go vegan. Stupid idiot.
ZoldierrZzz 1 week ago
@ZoldierrZzz You have said a lot of stuff. Most of it makes no sense, and the rest of it is wrong.
djmaxwell2 1 week ago
@ZoldierrZzz If you're not trying to force anyone, then shut up and go away.
Thanks. If you keep going, you're TRYING to force your will upon another. Let's be honest, you'd LOVE a nanny-state where they outlaw meat products, wouldn't you? I know the PCRM would. They've pushed for it. So has PETA.
No thanks. I'll take democracy and real food.
LCHFinCanada 1 week ago
@LCHFinCanada
You don't know what you are talking about.
ZoldierrZzz 1 week ago 2
@ZoldierrZzz listen, I support the fact that you're trying to protect animals, I really do, but have you ever considered letting people have their own views instead of calling them evil, ignorant and immoral?People eat meat because they enjoy the taste. I know there are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian, but you trying to push your views on people isn't exactly going to convince the masses.Maybe try convincing people to cut down on meat consumption, rather than stop outright
phdan123 1 week ago
@phdan123
I have better things to do now then waste my time on ignorant people, sorry, I don't agree with anything you say.
ZoldierrZzz 1 week ago
@ZoldierrZzz I agreed with several of your points, there's no need to be such a cunt.
phdan123 1 week ago
@ZoldierrZzz really? because your way seems to not be working so maybe y his way? besides, ive already been down the path of moral values. your idea of evil is based of modern socitys view of it. which stems form Christiantys view of it. And Christianity allows the consumption of meat
23045678 1 week ago
@23045678
What? Veganism is so anti-religion that you're so religious you wouldn't even understand it.
ZoldierrZzz 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz didd you even read my last comment yourself? what you just said had barely anything to o with y comment
23045678 6 days ago
@23045678
You said my idea of evil stems from christianity, I told you that's bullshit. Veganism/animal rights is so far away from religion and very anti-religion, that you are so religious you wouldn't even understand why. Damn..!
ZoldierrZzz 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz ok, so being anti religion you therefore are atheist. so therefore you have to admit that morals re subjective not objective. so therefore your whole vegnisem idea goes down the drain. as Morales mean nothing therefore why concern yourself with the pain of others? but, the morels your using, that is to say you don't like the pain of animals. stems from Chrisitanty. because those Morales were widely spread by Christians
23045678 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz And these morels were accepted hundreds of year ago into society. our belief that murder is wrong stems form Christianity. as does yours then. so you claim your anit religious yet use morels that originated with Christianity? and you carry on caring about animals even though being an theist you have to accept objective morels do not exist therefore you have no reason to care about animals. especially as it has been proven that they....
23045678 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz are incapable of meta cognition as we are. meaning they can not feel pain or think and understand like we do, or anything like we do. infact, they are exactly like plans. merely reacting to stimuli and not inventing or feeling much or themselves. even monkeys are not capable of metagogniton
23045678 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz oh and animal rights are far away from religion. WHAT? i hope your joking, vegansiem might be but animal rights in general are not. eating animals does not make me hate them or not care when they are hurt for no reason. animal rights is compleatly different from veganisem or vegetarianism.
23045678 6 days ago
@23045678
Dude, too many comments, I'm not interested in reading a book here.
ZoldierrZzz 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz it's not a book, it's not even that long, would take you 1 minute at the most. that said i see your running away form my arguements
23045678 6 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz No need to read it's just pro christian BS.
kamijisaca 5 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Democracy?? Do you even know what that word fucking means? It is not about your opinion and you should have never had the decision. You should be killed in the same way as the animals you eat are. Whether you accept it or not, you are just an animal like all of us. It's your exact same attitude that the people in the south of the US had when the North wanted to end slavery. You fail to understand the feelings of anyone else in this situation but yourself.
SatoriWins 4 days ago
@SatoriWins No he is not an animal. firstly to make that assumption you have to asume all religion are false. and i cna prove mine is not. well not 100% prove no one can but provide good evidence anyway. second. even from an atheistic view we are not technically animals as we, unlike ANY animals, have metacognition. animals simply react to stimuli like advanced plants we don't. well we do but are capable of much more than that.
23045678 4 days ago
@23045678 BTW it's not likely this nutjob will listen to ANY reason. The militant vegan zealots rarely do. They're brainwashed and keep spouting their dogma in the face of all contradictory evidence, all science, everything. They are completely unreasonable.
But good luck anyway. I think I'll go make a nice low-carb lasagne now (using zucchini instead of pasta) full of some nice grass-fed ground beef and free-range pork. Mmmm...
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Lol - Who's the brainwashed one here? All anthropoids (including humans) thrive on a high-carb, primarily fruit based diet with veggies - Meat and dairy induces cancer, osteoporosis, diabetes, heart disease and a host of other lifestyle related diseases (including weight issues). Educate yourself, read clinical scientific studies like The China study and watch some documentaries based on the science like Forks over Knives.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse
1. You're wrong
2. "read clinical scientific studies" - I do. You realize the China Study was a book based on a project that was only an OBSERVATIONAL study, right? Not a clinical study? And real, scientific CLINCAL studies disprove Campbell's theories? (they're only theories, yes.) Campbell excluded entire counties worth of data that disproved his theories.
Forks over knives is full of the same crap and lies.
Read something for yourself.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Put fourth your evidence or quit espousing bullshit. :)
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
Um... read the China Study? Campbell tells you it's observational. He was involved with it.
2. Minger, Colpo, Masterjohn and others have all debunked it. All can show you that he eliminated entire counties. Campbell admits he eliminated entire counties...
Is this really in dispute? The evidence is clear. Google "China Study" and any of the names above, as you know youtube doesn't like links.
Of course, you'll likely not look at any of them considering you LIKE ignorance
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada And saying Forks over knives is full of crap just proves your ignorance, I guess Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Neal Barnard, etc. are liars too then?
Minger and co. didn't prove anything, PrimitiveNutrition completely debunked them and the paleo diet
To remain willfully ignorant in the face of truth is something often seen in low-carbers. Keep buying into meat industry propaganda and all the supplement salesmen's bullshit, I won't be surprised when you die from heart disease.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Yes, many of them are.
Lets start with Barnard, who claims a vegan diet reverses diabetes. You probably believe that claim, right? So it's good to start with:
Barnard's own clinical trial lasted 74 weeks, long enough to hopefully get great results. However, after 74 weeks his "reversal" was lowering HbA1c levels from 8.05% to 7.71% which isn't even healthy. Normal is 4.6% to 5.4%.
His diet did better than the ADA diet, but the ADA diet is crap.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Further on Barnard: He refuses to test his vegan diet against a healthy low-carb diet. The ADA diet he used as control is recommended by pharmaceutical companies and food industries... every diabetic knows it's crap.
ALL CLINICAL STUDIES COMPARING LOW-CARB TO LOW-FAT SHOW LOW-CARB IS VASTLY SUPERIOR FOR GLYCEMIC CONTROL, WEIGHT-LOSS AND HEART-HEALTH.
Sorry, but that's just the truth and you can't debunk it, can you?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Esselstyn gave his patients STATIN drugs, which alone could account for his "miraculous" changes. Statins are shown to also help reverse atherosclerosis, or didn't you know that.
Also, Esselstyn used 2D images of a 3D space, which isn't proof of reversal in and of itself. Ask any cardiologist. If you know any.
I do. Working in the health industry I know several, and have done the research myself.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Oh yeah, Esselstyn's diet also encouraged exercise and all patients were REQUIRED to stop smoking.
So no smoking, adding exercise, adding Statin drugs... obviously it was the diet...
Ever heard of confounding variables? Derp. His claims aren't even scientific, according to every possible definition of the scientific method.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Let's go back go Barnard a second... very tiny reduction in HbA1c from 8.05 to 7.71% after 74 weeks...
Japanese researchers recently conducted research on diabetic outpatients put on a low-carb diet. These were severe diabetics too (Barnard refused to use anyone in his study with HbA1c over 10.0)
they went from HbA1c of over 10% to 7% range in only 3 months. VASTLY better changes than Barnards study, in 1/5th the time.
Still think he's great?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Where is your evidence then? I see none. Pubmed searches easily show vast amounts of peer reviewed studies linking meat consumption to cancer, the same goes for saturated fat and heart disease.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse The ONLY studies you'll find linking meat to cancer include high rates of refined carbohydrate and PROCESSED meats in the diet.
Period.
Look for studies of those eating a healthy diet that doesn't include processed meats, like the AJCN reports I mentioned for 2009 and 2010.
I guess you don't take into account confounding variables? That's very bad science. That's the kind Campbell used in his book, BTW.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Despite your attempts to disprove the true experts, where are your credentials may I ask? "I work in the field" won't cut it, and unless you put your name on the line nobody will take you serious.
Even unprocessed meat from grass-fed cows will garner the same reaction while it is decomposing inside of you, acidifying your body, increasing uric acid, and demanding calcium to be leeched from your bones. The Masai had heart disease and they sure ate lots of unprocessed meats too!
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse BTW, the experts were disproved long before I showed up.
The only thing healthy about the vegan diet is the elimination of refined/processed carbs/sugars AND the inclusion of healthy veggies and fruit.
However to completely eliminate all meat is erroneously dangerous. Especially in the face of all evidence showing it's part of a healthy diet.
Can you explain why the science I've shown you shows it's healthy? Why only bad science shows it's not? How do you justify that?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Listen, you can keep trying to throw around your misinformation and look through your bullshit-goggles, but common sense wins out. Are we not Anthropoids? Do all anthropoids not thrive on a high carb diet (mostly fruit based)?
On all accounts, a high-carb vegan diet wins out over any other - Health, Fitness, Ethics (both animal and human), the Environment, etc. are all much better off on this diet.
But keep munching on your grass-fed beef and drinking the olive-oil.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse "on all accounts" eh?
Where is YOUR scientific evidence of this, do tell? You ask for mine, I provide it. You don't refute it? But yet don't believe what I write?
How's that not being brainwashed?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
Comment removed
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse durianrider is so full of crap... if you believe him over science, there's no help for you.
He is the most complete mis-information troll on the internet. He spews only junk, and when debunked he deletes comments and bans accounts. How is THAT scientific?
Besides, he looks unhealthy.
Danzig has only been vegan a little while. We'll see if he stays that way. Carl lewis claims he's vegan - but there's no evidence, and he was fastest as non-vegan.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LCHFinCanada And lastly, I take my advice from people getting the results that I desire like @Durianriders, Mac Danzig, Carl Lewis, etc. who are top athletes who all thrive on high carb diets - Durianrider even had his Vo2 Max increased through just living high-carb raw vegan, something most athletes have to turn to drugs to achieve.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada Anyone can write numbers like you did - I won't believe a thing you say without credentials. My evidence lies in studies like the China Study and PubMed articles. And in regards to Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Neal Barnard (and probably Dr. Ornish too in your opinion I'd bet) not being scientific, I can only say Statistical significance, have you heard of this term? If so you'd know there is no refuting stuff like the China study.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada And it is laughable that you'd claim @Durianriders a misinformation spreader when he's getting the results you'd kill 1.000 oxen for, and fail to achieve, while you at the same time say people like Minger, an English Masters student whose barely out of her teens has debunked The China study, which took more years to conduct than she has lived - Laughable doesn't even cover it mate.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse as for my results vs. durianriders...
I hate to keep pointing out the truth, but I lost nearly 100lbs eating low-carb, and kept it off. I can see my abs at 46 years old. I can ride a bicycle 100km in sub 3.5hours and did a 106km ride over 14% mountain grades in Canada in just over 4 hours.
Minger DID debunk it, btw, as did others. What's your issue, ever READ her critique? T. Colin Campbell did and he was IMPRESSED and couldn't refute her.
Who's laughable?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada You just keep flapping your mouth about your evidence - Where is your peer reviewed Journals? I'd love to read through them. And the science is clear in regards to how meat breaks down in the body, and I've stated it before in my responses, but perhaps it didn't break through your meat-clouded vision to begin with? When you break down meat and it decomposes in you, your blood becomes acidic (uric acid). This has a host of health problems associated with it, such as osteoporosis.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
Comment removed
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@LCHFinCanada And in regards to seeing your abs at 46, I'm not really impressed - Vegans show abs at 76.
w w w . get-thin-for-good . com/wordpress/2011/11/18/the-76-year-old-vegan-bodybuilder-who-looks-like-a-50-year-old/
Keep trying though.
Also, you are still a nobody who backs up nothing you're posting - Durianriders even posts his bloodwork online and shows his results up front- You're nothing but hollow talk spoken by a carnist
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse how does anything you've said disprove what I've said?
Answer: it doesn't.
You're still living in denial. The bodybuilder you mention wasn't always vegan, BTW and is big because of massive quantities of anabolic steroids. He's managed to maintain much of the muscle he generated while on anabolic steroids. Don't believe me? Read his interviews. He openly talks about it.
Who's got the hollow-talk? You've got NOTHING, sorry.
Where's your science?
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LCHFinCanada I'll tell you who's laughable, you, Minger and any other nobody who attacks science with ignorance. Have you read the response by Dr. T. Colin Campbell himself?
w w w . vegsource . com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger . html
Or perhaps the Cancer Epidemiologist who refutes Denise Mingers China Study Claims?
w w w . 30bananasaday . com/group/debunkingthechinastudycritics/forum/topics/a-cancer-epidemiologist?xg_source=activity
Ha Ha.
PerfectEclipse 4 days ago
@PerfectEclipse Also, where's your evidence that meat causes cancer? Osteoporosis? Diabetes? Heart Disease?
All observational studies, all easily debunked.
Several studies prove otherwise. The lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat myth is disproven repeatedly.
Hundreds of studies trying to prove the lipid hypothesis. Hundreds of millions of dollars, all finding either 1) inconclusive or 2) disproven.
Yet you cling to it to support your ideals. that's delusional.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@SatorIWins "You should be killed in the same way as the animals you eat are. "
Really? Because I'm suddenly livestock, am I? Your arguments are just stupid.
And you talk of slavery? We're humans raising livestock. It's not the same as slavery.
Get over yourself and stop trying to force your opinions on others. Meat is a healthy part of the diet - you can't face that, too bad. You don't have to eat it.
LCHFinCanada 4 days ago
@ZoldierrZzz
There are different forms of coercion. You are, at any rate, presenting your own ethical creed as though it were objectively and universally true. You've not attempted to analyse your morals against other moral systems, nor against the notions that moral statements are meaningless/relative/false/subjective/non-cognitive.
p3rs0nan0ngrata 1 week ago
@p3rs0nan0ngrata sort of true, morals are only subjective if you believe there is no God, if you do relive there is a God, then, morals are objective, even so, you must then not present your own morals as objective s he is doing, but, rather portray your God's morals. which, he is not doing it seems
23045678 1 week ago
@TheYelIow No one thinks that you are all like this guy.
djmaxwell2 1 week ago
Vegans are just afraid that we will eat them one day. Trufax ;)
Squiddyize 1 week ago
Wow... when you say "you are selfish, immoral, stupid and ignorant. Just like rapists and murderers who abuse, rape and kill the innocent for their own unnecessary personal gain." you present only an EMOTIONAL opinion, and not a very compelling one.
This is the problem with vegan activists, they actually give veganism a bad name.
LCHFinCanada 1 week ago
@LCHFinCanada
It's not an emotional opinion, but a fact. You can't deal with that because you feel attacked. Killing animals is unnecessary for human survival, just like rape. Killing an animal is horrible for the animal, just like rape is for the victim. Humans kill animals for personal gain, just like rapists rape for personal gain. Humans don't care about the animals they kill, rapists don't care about the people they rape. Humans justify killing animals for stupid reasons, same with rapists.
ZoldierrZzz 1 week ago