Chiropractic heals the blind

[WestPalmChiropractor]

this video is one that should be viewed by more people - excellent content

[JaguarSTR]

Even after 20 years as a DC I continue to be amazed and prouder of my profession and bretheren. ADIO!

[kevinharriet12]

Dear Dr Snyder...you are an idiot. If your adjustments can cure blindness why aren't you doing this magic everyday? Or did you just share this gift with this patient? You got lucky by some freak act of nature so just admit to being in the right place at the right time.

[drjeffsnyder]

@kevinharriet12 You don't know me. Don't call me an idiot. Does that make you feel superior to call names? Secondly, if you would have watched the video I AM NOT THE DOCTOR WHO TREATED THIS PATIENT! I'm not wasting any more time with you on this subject other then to say, don't be so ignorant.

[JaguarSTR]

@drjeffsnyder Keep up the great chiropractic work Dr. Jeff.

[hiodr]

@kevinharriet12 get stuffed you ignorant jackass.

[JaguarSTR]

@hiodr You tell em doc. kevin is an asshole.

[holistic49]

@hiodr Yep, Kevin and Harriet have a bunch to learn about chiropractic, but more importantly...they, like everyone else, need chiropractic care for both correction and maintenance of a health nervous system.

[chiropractic47]

@kevinharriet12 Ok shmuck, so what happened during the chiropractic adjustment that caused the man to re-gain sight in his blind eye? That a boy! Answer: That part of his nervous system became cleared to do what it was designed to do....turkey. Now do you see how chiropractic is very necessary?

[holistic49]

@kevinharriet12 Kevin your retarded! I was reading your post while eating breakfast and, Wa La!, It just came to me. Chiropractic is awesome!

[DConWheelsLLC]

@kevinharriet12 This is a very complicated reaction and yes no one knows exactly how it works but we do know that relieving nerve pressure via a chiropractic adjustment will restore normal communication to the affected tissues. I am also a chiropractor and have had this same reaction in my office with a blind man who lost his vision after hitting his head in a car accident. Blind for 3 months sought me out for headache relief...24 adjustments later and his headaches were gone and he was 20/20

[chiropractic47]

@DConWheelsLLC Awesome work doctor! ADIO!

[drjeffsnyder]

@chiropractic47 Thanks Doc.

[chiropractic47]

@kevinharriet12 Kevin you are an idiot. When you recieve a bachelors degree then attend chiropractic school, complete four parts of National Boards, recieve a chiropractic license then practice chiropractic for a minimum of 5 years...then only will you be qualified to debate chiropractic.

[chiropractic47]

@kevinharriet12 Kevin, regardless of wether you feel it was a "...some freak act of nature..." how do you explain the success of the spinal adjustment in this case? Go on! You can admit it...chiropractic is great!

[chiropractic47]

@kevinharriet12 You're just plain ole jealous of chiropractic...we understand, cause chiropractic is awesome!

re

[ospreylookout]

According to a 2006 Gallup Poll of U.S. adults, when asked how they would "rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in these different fields", chiropractic compared unfavorably with mainstream medicine. When chiropractic was rated, it "rated dead last amongst healthcare professions". While 84% of respondents considered nurses' ethics "very high" or "high," only 36% felt that way about chiropractors.  I wonder why when I watch this kind of propaganda?

[drjeffsnyder]

@ospreylookout

Google: Demographic Characteristics of Users of Chiropractic Services. The Gallup Organization, Princeton, New Jersey - 1991

For those who have never gone to a chiropractor, there may be distrust. However the 1991 Gallup study shows high patient satisfaction for those who have utilized chiropractic treatment.

[ospreylookout]

drjeff: One might think that 1991 is a long time ago (is that the same level of rigour that you use to appraise the research literature?) to search for support, when a much more recent survey has obviously different things to say about chiropractic. Does it not matter to you that you are using a 1991 survey? That is like using a 1991 political poll to infer present day sentiments surrounding policy. Your comment epitomizes the inability or unwillingness of chiro to evolve to present day.

[drjeffsnyder]

The 1991 poll looked at patient satisfaction. The 2006 poll looked at a totally different set of criteria. The point I was making was that although chiropractic has "negative brand equity", it also has a high level of satisfaction among those who actually experienced chiropractic care. If those who were polled in 2006 actually experienced chiropractic care (of which one can only speculate), their perception may be different.

[ospreylookout]

drjeff: If you are truly someone who seeks "truth", whatever that might mean, it is only possible if you can agree with others as to the criteria for what truth might appear like once you find it. So, I am simply saying that, when people make claims and don't or won't provide evidence, then they are hiding the truth from those who might be seeking it. That is unethical, especially for a health care professional or profession. I see this in chiro.

[biomanwin]

Does anyone else see a problem with a neck adjustment having an effect on one's ocular function?

I can think of one, the optic nerve doesn't go anywhere near the spinal column, which is the only portion of the body chiropractors actually work with...

[drjeffsnyder]

@biomanwin

Google: November 1996 Vision, the cervical spine, and chiropractic

by Dr. Christopher Kent

Hope this expands your understanding.

[chiropractic47]

drjeffsnyder, keep up your excellent work in chiropractic.

[rainwhenidie76]

It does. A chiropractor citing a study that included one subject. Typical.

[drjeffsnyder]

@rainwhenidie76 That is why it is called a "CASE" study. When numerous CASE studies can be tallied, then you can write a more extensive study looking at the cases. This is not unusual in particular fields of health care.

[rainwhenidie76]

@drjeffsnyder Then the title should read: possible connection between high velocity manipulation and vision restoration. Then maybe an attempt to explain the relationship, like an autonomic nervous system response. But that didn't happen. Instead :Chiropractic Heals The Blind! In a related note, the second largest search on Google when you type in 'chiropractor' is 'chiropractors are not real doctors'. Good job on the chiropractic promotion bit, us new graduates are ever grateful.

[drjeffsnyder]

@rainwhenidie76 Oh, so you are a new DC? Well, then when you see a miracle happen in your office, oh wait, you won't consider it a special event, but rather a "possible connection". Furthermore, a manipulation would never produce the results this chiropractor produced. Chiropractors adjust. We don't manipulate. Look up the words in the dictionary. There is a distinct difference between the two. As for the title, you obviously don't have any idea about how to market an idea to the public.

[rainwhenidie76]

I looked up the terms. One means to work with the hands skillfully, the other means to change in order to correct. That appears to me to bethe same thing. Apparently the dictionary isn't as intelligent as veteran chiropractors.

Last I remember manipulate and adjust is simply a term for how hard you hit them. Newbies manipulate, the veterans adjust. 'Boom shakalaka'.

Keep making those claims. I'll await my first miracle.

[drjeffsnyder]

@rainwhenidie76 Merriam-Webster Dictionary-- Manipulate: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage. Adjust: to bring the parts of to a true or more effective relative position.

You are obviously confused.  There is more than 1 definition. Adjustments are specific with a specific intention.

The sad part of this is there will always be those who shoot inward to their own profession. This is my last post as it is a waste of time.

[chiropractic47]

@rainwhenidie76 So rainman...how did the man blind in one eye recieve his vision back immediately following the chiropractic upper cervical spinal adjustment? Chiropractic Now!

[chiropractic47]

@rainwhenidie76 Hey barf bag. You're being an idiot...on the other hand we do enjoy batting your pea brain around.

[drjeffsnyder]

@rainwhenidie76 One more thing. You mentioned that googling "chiropractor" resulted in a less then positive query. Funny, because when I googled, there were lots of positive results, and a few negative from quackbusters. Anyone can post trash against our profession.

[jjhaywood]

@rainwhenidie76 yeah! go get em'. googling is the "sure fire double blind scientific standard" that will prove your point. I see those statistic classes really paid off!

[chiropractic47]

@rainwhenidie76 Are you just simply jelous of chiropractic?

[chiropractic47]

biomanwin, chiropractics adjustment of the cervical spine to affect vision has to due with alleviating upper cervical subluxation as a means to decrease inflammation thus pressure on the adjacent brain stem which itself has trancending through it vascularity and autonomic feed to and fro the optic nucleii. This should help.

[rainwhenidie76]

You're right, we can agree it happened.

A) Someone once cracked the guys neck.

B) He could see better at some point after he got cracked.

Did A result in B? Can you say, without a doubt, that it did?

Understand this is what happans with all advances in science. People questioning things is a good thing. It prevents pseudoscience from hurting people.

It seems that whenever you question a chiropractor, they turn into an 8 year old and throw a fit. That's why no one takes them seriously.

[chiropractic47]

rain man (you'r an idiot-savant) ...It turns out the man lost sight in the eye 12 years ago shortly after a head-on collision during a football game (explains the compression of occiput upon atlas and atlas upon axis). Edema from the swelling could have squeezed off both blood supply and nerve feed. Regardless of your "Did A result in B?"...hypothesis, you admit a subsequent chiropractic upper cervical adjustment decompressed attenuated either or both nuerological and vascular structures. CHIRO!

[rainwhenidie76]

Douchbag47, I didn't admit anything. The only thing I admit is that you're a little boy wetting his diaper everytime someone disagrees with you, you throw out insults like a 3 year old, your science proves you have no concept about how the body really works (since in your world stuctures can have no blood flow for 12 years and suddenly work when blood is restored), and any toothless idiots stupid enough to trust their health to you are screwed. CHIRO!

[chiropractic47]

In your last post you wrote the man blind in one eye lost his vision due to a chiropractic adjustment. You went on that it was another chiropractic doctor who helped restore it. Would you accept a partial loss of nerve feed and blood flow? Look rainman, throw me a bone, work with me here.

[rainwhenidie76]

Fakedoctor47, if you look at other miracle chiro posts, and study your replies, you'll notice A) you use gay insults at everyone who doesn't suck you off for your incredible knowledge, and B) you put words in people's mouths to win your little argument. I never said the guy was blinded by a chiro adjustment, but there it is in you're reply. So goodby little boy, I'm done, enjoy punishing your stupid patients with your horseshit and trolling youtube with your oh so clever comments. CHIRO!

[chiropractic47]

Ohh look people...it's the poor little "rain-man". He's so jelous of the chiropractic doctor. Poor thing! So insecure of himself and his shaky love affair with medicine that he admonishes himself with trolling videos of chiropractic miracles. Has he anything intelligent to write to refute chiropractics great attributes to the world save the same ol same ol boorish medi-pharma-man tail gate party bash chant "I like drugs man, me a drug man, my symptoms are managed by drugs man"! CHIROPRACTIC!!!!

[jns124able]

I wont be replying to Chiro47 anymore. I say this because he will pepper this forum with all sorts of crude statements and regard no reply to it as concession. His attitude and behaviour are far below what I would consider reasonable for an intelligent debate. His private emails are equally non-contributory. Anyways, it was getting to be like debating about the nature of the universe with a demented and abusive person subscribing to the "our universe is in a snow globe" theory.

[chiropractic47]

Wow! jns124able. What an impressive plea. "Chiropractic47 is being mean to me. All I did was do what a good skeptic would do: I tried to denegrate the good fortune this blind man recieved from chiropractic? I tried to claim the event was a product of psychogenic hysteria, coincidential, or a bogus claim? I made sure not to give any creedance to the chiropractic upper cervical adjustment that decompressed those structures that impeded the mans blind eye? We don't buy your shill shit jns124able.

[JohnnyChiro]

rainwhenidie76 I couldn't agree with you more. Not sold on the explination the doc gives, however, there is a chance that his manipulation played a role in his sight recovery. I mean Horners syndrome is caused by the cervical chain ganglia being effected, so this isn't too far fetched. Anyway, hey good for the doc and good for the patient. Good stuff, glad the guy can see again, thats what its all about....the patients getting better!

[JulieKotiw]

What a great success story! Thanks for sharing,

[Brainteezer1]

In all of this, ONE thing can't be disputed......IT HAPPENED!

[chiropractic47]

Amen!

[jns124able]

I would argue that hoaxes happen. It actually CAN be disputed. Not that this is one, but if you are not open to the possibility and approach these issues with skepticism, then you open yourself up to all sorts of manipulation. You have to consider that even if he DID recover a longstanding blindness in one eye, the mechanism for its return is unknown. True scientists avoid making assumptions, no matter how happy they make us.

[rainwhenidie76]

Exactly where in the body does the optic nerve ever travel between 2 vertebrae?

[neco461]

The optic nerve is the the second cranial nerve, it's connected to the diencephalon. The "bone pinching the nerve" theory is old and should no longer be used because not only does it not happen, it does not explain vision being improved.

[rainwhenidie76]

Sorry Neco, I was being sarcastic. I am a chiropractor, and I know where the optic nerve is. The funny thing is that "nerve interference from spinal misalignment" cannot occur on the optic nerve. And the fact that chiropractors are citing this as a mechanism of injury makes us look like morons. If you want to say that the manipulation possibly dialed up the parasympathetics which affect dilation of the pupils, and MAYBE that's why it worked but we need to study that to be sure, then fine.

[neco461]

Yes, you are right... Unfortunetely the mechanism of action hasn't been well established in our profession, but one theory I do like is autonomic regulation of blood vessels, the same goes for Harvey Lillard's hearing. Lack of proper blood supply leads to loss of proper function.

[jns124able]

@neco461 and as for you...another kudos for having a responsible and reasonable approach to evidence based practice. Guys like Chiropractic47 do you all a disservice.

[jujubee0417]

I am a little surprised by your vast simplification of the nerve system and its relation to the spine. While it is true that the cranial nerves themselves do not pass through the vertebral column, they do receive many communications with post ganglionic fibers from the superior cervical ganglion, which originates from cord levels T1-L2/3. These fibers control pilomotor, vasomotor, and secretomotor effects related to structures in the head and would very much have an effect on sight.

[chiropractic47]

Wow! I'm a chiropractic physician and have a much better explanation than you. As the good doc (DC) explained...he detected an upper cervical subluxation (Occiput-C1 and/or C1-C2)proximal to the brain stem. As the brain stem swells there is inherent vasoconstriction of blood vessels that supply the optic chiasm...thus a blind eye!! Shame on you! Dig out your neuro- anatomy books pronto!!

[jns124able]

@chiropractic47 wouldnt longstanding ischemia/infarct to the optic chiasm result in necrosis of the structure resulting in permanent hemianopia? Revascularizing the area after injury wouldnt result in a return of vision in this situation. =/ Just so you know, I already know the answer is no. Incidentally, an optic chiasm infarct wont cause blindness in the distribution of a single entire eye field. My neuro-anatomy book says so. =)

[giebelman]

@jns124able OMG your good!

Chiropractic47 PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do retort to jns124able here!

Im absolutely dying to know how your great "Life University" education has prepared you to defend CHIROPRACTIC in the face of basic neuroanatomy... but its OK if the best you can do is a little name calling (I understand its tough holding forth for the lunatic fringe but someone has to do it I guess).

[jns124able]

Giebelman, he private messaged me. Im not surprised. It was as asinine as the ones you see here. He is incompetent if he even is a member of any profession. He doesn't seem to be concerned that his demeanour leads most to regard him as most likely not a competent practitioner of anything. Im not a doctor, Im a senior medical student (last phase of training). So if a student can understand this better than he...it doesnt say a lot for his level of academics, and thus his credibility.

[giebelman]

@jns124able You deserve honors on whatever MS4 clerkship your doing at the moment for your particularly astute observation!

Chiropractic47 is particularly proud of the fact that he and his fellow chiropractors spent their 3rd-4th years sitting in a classroom getting "advanced" course in nutrition, ect... not waisting their time actually seeing patients. Apparently this is whats made him such a fine chiropractic "physician".

I doubt hes fit to command the title "doctor".

Best of luck...

[chiropractic47]

giebelman! How much longer are you gunna suck jns124able's dick? Look putz...you'r a brown nosed loser. Non the less, we still accept you as you are. It takes every kind of person to make the world- go-round giebelman. Stand up for yourself princess! Be happy, proud, and capitalize on your "Brown nose-dick sucking-loser" status! Viva giebelman!!!

[jns124able]

@giebelman Thanks, I dont know the DC curriculum, Ive seen claims that it is superior to MD training due to more class hours. The reality is we spend a lot of time learning in clinical settings with attending docs and residents. As a rotating intern we still have nearly daily seminars. We spent a few classes on being members of a profession and public accountability. Perhaps why I try to discuss, and this Chiro47 behaves like a raving lunatic. (which really doesnt intimidate or impress..)

[chiropractic47]

There's a place for chiropractic and medicine. Both are equally needed to help repair peoples (babies too) health and keep them healthy. Chiropractic is a system of health care that provides spinal adjustments as means of rectifying vertebral subluxations (misalignments) that can impede proper nerve flow to the tissues of the body. It is also the study of how the body is made and how people live, thus a very similar and comprehensive curricula (DC=5200 hrs. vs MD=4600 hrs.) as medicine.

[giebelman]

@chiropractic47 What you so conveniently forget, or ignore, is that chiropractic students get their proported 5200 hour "comprehensive curricula" spread out over 4 years or primarily classroom training. MD/DO students get their 4600 hours compressed into their first 2 years of didactics. They then spend infinitely more hours on clinical clerkships over their 3rd-4th years (96 weeks). Chiropractic education has nothing that even remotely compairs to the rigors of this, and you very well know it.

[chiropractic47]

giebelman, we agree with you, chiropractic students complete 500 more classroom hours in the advanced health sciences than medical students, however, while the medical student is out of the classroom and solely in internship, the chiropractic student is simultaneously in classroom and internship. Chiropractic doesn't require a "paid residency" due to the nature of its design and unwillingness to observe how people die, but life. DC's enter the field fully prepared for their mission: Chiropractic

[ospreylookout]

chiro: Show us the evidence if it exists. Every legitimate piece of published research found in peer-reviewed journals is stored in databases such as Medline. There are searched by using the information: author, year, title of study, Journal name, so why won't you provide any evidence to the public? Why are you lying to the people? You are hiding the truth--there is no evidence for most of the garbage you claim. You are a fraud.

[giebelman]

@chiropractic47 So medicine is as "equally needed" as chiropractic yet, according to you, its easily among the leading killers in this country, injects poisons into childern at every turn and is in cahoots with "big pharma" being motivated by nothing but profit.

Forgive me if the rational of your sudden beneficence escapes me here.

When did chiropractic become "the study... of how people live"? Isnt that what they call sociology or anthropology? Your really reaching there Im afraid.

[chiropractic47]

I couldn't have said it any better giebelman! Very good my man.

Most people agree chiropractic studies how the body is made, how it works, and what it needs to survive. Now i know you wouldn't have a problem with this?

[jns124able]

@rainwhenidie76 finally, i read a statement from a chiropractic representative that is responsible and demands evidence via a study. Kudos to your approach.

[drjeffsnyder]

@neco461 Google: November 1996 Vision, the cervical spine, and chiropractic

by Dr. Christopher Kent

Hope this expands your understanding

[chiropractic47]

@neco461 Circa 1895 anatomical technology was much lower than the present. The first three cranial nerves depend upon autonomic and vascular supply and drainage below their synaptic ganglia ie. the lower portion of the brain stem...approximate to the occipital-atlanto-axial region. Chiropractic Now! I have a question for all the chiropractic "Nay Sayers"...What do you think happened that best describes the event in this video? Chiropractic Now!

[drjeffsnyder]

@rainwhenidie76 Google: November 1996 Vision, the cervical spine, and chiropractic

by Dr. Christopher Kent

Hope this expands your understanding

[chiropractic47]

@rainwhenidie76 See "Dr. Christopher Kent, DC" for more info. regarding your question. Chiropractic Now!

[n8rules]

My husband is a chiropractor, and we have had many patients whose eyes have improved to the extent that they were able to give up wearing glasses. We have also had 8 patients over the last 14 years whose hearing was restored through adjustments. There is no mystery about this. If the problem was caused by a misalignment of the spine putting pressure on a nerve, then removing the pressure removes the problem.

[drjeffsnyder]

I've seen the same thing in my practice. It is amazing to see the healing take place. The misunderstanding is that the public at large thinks that the Chiropractor believes he is "curing" the ailment when, in fact, all we are doing is removing obstruction to the healing. Since the nervous system comtrols the body, it only makes sense that it will "regulate" that which was out of balance.

Thanks for your comments n8rules!

[bjs8145]

Address the point that neco461 makes. Your overly simplistic chiropractic philosophy falls flat on its face on this point, and no rational chiropractor can refute that with anything other than "your just a hater" of "you just uneducated"... please, "misalignments of the spine" CANT effect the optic nerve.

[amy8reese]

No where in this report do they say the adjustment affected the optic nerve. They are saying that the adjustment helped his nervous system work better which allowed his eye to function better.

[chiropractic47]

Amen!

[oiffer]

bjs8145, misalignments of the spine CAN affect the optic nerve. Overloading signals from mechanoreceptors, especially in the upper cervical spine, can cause dysfunction of the brain stem which can affect literally any part of your body. Brain stem dysfunction can result in decreased blood supply to the brain. Brain tissue goes dormant when not supplied with enough blood. If the part of the brain controlling the eyes and optic nerve is dormant you go blind, or at least have vision problems.

[chiropractic47]

Well put and laid out. CHIROPRACTIC!!!

[jns124able]

Funny how noone has mentioned psychogenic blindness.

[chiropractic47]

LOL! No one mentioned "Psychogenic blindness" due to their intelligence not as lacking as yours, LOL!. Medic (jns124able), if you want to make a career as a skeptic then be smart and considerate. No one takes a snide med student "Future HEALER" seriously. With medicine as the third largest cause of death in the U.S. you'd need to make up alot of lost ground bucko. Best avoid giebelman. Besides a loser, his ghosts ride in his front shirt pocket, along with your misdirection, he'll sink you. CHIRO

[jns124able]

@chiropractic47 Im not a medic. Thats a term for paramedics. Someone did mention psychogenic blindness...me. Actually...a lot of people listen to what I have to say, but I think you are only being inflammatory and rude...which is what I always expect from one who is trying to distract from something else (lost point in debate, lack of knowledge etc)...

[chiropractic47]

bjs8145? A clear example of a mother and fathers one night mistake.

[jns124able]

My issue with many explanations for chiropractic is that it seems to be enough that people feel better. (As is the case in this video) the mechanism (if one exists) isn't understood and there seems to be no ambition for discerning it. How does one know that the hearing return was the result of adjustments? How many adjustments are needed? I am not in support of building professional credibility based on anecdotal evidence, which is exceedingly weak if considered evidence at all.

[gongoloo]

How does that sove a refractive error? Adjusting the spine reliving any "pressure" of the nerve has no bearing on refractive errors.

[MrMichuzz]

with the 'art of seeing' by aldous huxley ,,, lol,, why do optometrists never mention that book?

[JayUisNOT]

contact lenses will make him blind again.