Billionaires for Wealthcare Serande the Masses on Capitol Hill - 11/5/09 (HQ)

[frednoname1]

What a bunch of dumbasses.

[concretewater87]

AMAZING signs!!!! "Let them eat Advil!" omg! hahaha

[atheistforchange]

i am off..there is a teabagger protest at local fed courhouse. i am gonna play billionaire ;-)

[FredCPA1962]

wow, billionaires. like pelosi and reid and kennedy, who want to destroy the insuracne industry so all we have is givernment run healthcare. they are truly despicable

[atheistforchange]

was that grayson thanking the billionaires at the end of the clip?

[cort014]

you libs are so out there..you have no common sense..if i see a lib in the road im given it the gas..

[Eastmanarium]

Right, it's a lack of common sense that makes them not want people dying and having significantly shorter life expectancy than the rest of the western world.

[vysehrad]

The teabaggers posting in irritation here are completely missing the point. It's well-understood that you're not consciously advocating on behalf of insurance companies. You're doing it without realizing it, and they are treating you as useful idiots.

[FredCPA1962]

dude, i AM advocating for the insurance industry. see i have a son who is 8; amazingly. we were told he would be dead by the time he was 3 months old. and he has cerebral palsy. this system kept him alive thru 5 neuro surgeries before he was 3 months old, wieghing in at a total of 3 pounds. you little puke, when you stare at your own baby in a pastic box with 20 tubes hanging out of him to keep him alive and he codes, and you want to destroy the people that kept him alive. you the tool big man.

[FredCPA1962]

oh and let me tell you about my weife who had breast cancer in 06, genius. i dont remember nancy pelosi calling us every week while i was shaving my head in sympathy with her thru chemo. nope. but the insur lady did. making sure my wife had all she needed. you my friend are dangerous because you are ignorant. when you have been thru a real medical emergency you'll know. but if you succeed, if my son is injured, i will hunt you down. that would only be fair right??

[vysehrad]

I don't understand why you're so angry at me. I don't want to destroy the insurance companies. I want care extended to additional people who cannot afford it.

[FredCPA1962]

then why do you want to detroy the health insuracne industry, as in this bill. and i am angrery becasue i have skin in the game dude. an 8 year old child with scerebral palsy. if you and your cohorts REALLY wanted to extend coverage to the uninsured then why dont we just DO that. instead of whats going on. READ the crap man. find out about what is is ABOUT. these platitudes you spout have REAL WORLD consequences for people that HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME.

[vysehrad]

I write: "I don't want to destroy the insurance companies."

Your reply: "then why do you want to detroy the health insuracne industry"

Your trolling is a little too obvious, work on your trolling skills.

[FredCPA1962]

here's why it will destroy private insur. the taxes added to the plans will by definiation make costs of premiums go UP. the costs are already too high. as premiums go uop, fewer and fewer people will be able to afford pricvate pklans and be dumped into pub opt. what will be left is really rich people with really good 9expensive) insur. and ost people with pub option, less coverage. now, lets tlak about how we are gonna get MORE doctors, with more people in plans, with reduced pmts for procedure

[monkeyfelo]

@FredCPA1962

I contend that you have never even once looked at the bill.

You know how I know this. You keep saying people get dumped in the public option. No one gets dumped into anything. Anybody who gets insurance through the exchange has a choice between numerous private health insurance plans and one public insurance plan.

Subsidies that people get, can be used to buy private insurance or the public option.

You should go learn what is in the bill, before you spout off made up scenarios.

[FredCPA1962]

and you believe that private plans costs will go down then? and therefore more people will opt for them, the priv plans in the exchange? do you contend that is most probable? please show me the math on that, if you would and lets discuss it. in real terms. what is projected subsidy and cost of these (fewer) private plans. you've read the bill so you can tell me. if not, then what is the basis of your conclusion. if you dont mind heloing me on that.

[FredCPA1962]

what sceanruio did i make up. the ave cost of employer plans now is 10k. employee kickin averages 3200. net cost to employer is now approx 6500. ave wage (gross) is 40k. what is made up. lets keep going wioth real numbners...this is good for us both. so the 8% tax if employer kills plan is 8%, is that right? from what i have seen of bill. lets keep going. with real numbers. lets just work it thru. what makes sense. come on back with more from the bill i dont know.

[FredCPA1962]

hey monkey. let me ask you this: how mnay plans have you shopped for? how mnay employers and employees have you counselled on purchasing coverage for their employees/selves? how do you get your coverage? if you answer, that will assist me in helping you. you sound as though perhaps you may not have first hand knowledge in these fields. and thats fine. i wish i didnt. but i do. maybe i can help you. real world stuff. if you care to know.

[monkeyfelo]

Well Fred, currently I get insurance through my employer. We just had to increase our cost sharing because like most companies this year couldn't afford to pay the yearly increase alone.

When I started my own consulting firm with 4 employees, I certainly did have to figure out health insurance. And in the end we all had to get our insurance through the individual market. Where you have to foot the entire cost of your policy, which is also more likely to be lower quality.

[FredCPA1962]

you need a better broker. if you want one, let me know. did you get all get hsa's? did you price them? do you feel hsa (type) coverage would increase or decrease the costs? would a group plan alleviate the pre-exisitng problem? did any employees have pre-existings? how did the price comparasin work between a small group plan vs each buying indiv policies? what was cost differential?

[FredCPA1962]

ok, so you have employer coverage now. with this current bill, do you expect the employers premium for you to go down or up? do you expect the % of the premium that you pay thru (i assume ) employee withholding to go down or up? what is your best guess? i dont know, we're both guessing. lets noodle it, see what seems most liklely and see where we come out. are we getting to where we both want to be: that is, with more folks covered and at a cheaper price.

[monkeyfelo]

Those numbers are the average costs of insurance in this country. You can go look at the Employer Health Benefits Survey 2009 from Kaiser Family Foundation. Or you can keep making your numbers up.

You don't need to guess, that is what I am telling you. You could go look at the data. You can go look at the CBO score and see where it states reform will create, downward pressure on the premiums of private plans.

[FredCPA1962]

please provide links for this data. and please refute if you could the CBO assumptions that i have stated that arrive at your number. which is false. in the real world, as the assumptions are not realistic. i am willing to look, if you have any data. i am not guessing. have you seen how the cbo sausage is made? you are aware i am sure they must follow the dictates of the legislation now matter how unrealistic the actual (and what past history would inform us) track record is.

[FredCPA1962]

monkey, riddle me this: what is the percentage of fed gov spending devoted to debt service+soc sec+medciare. please look it up. then add 10 tril to deicit. then add 2-3% points to debt service coverage rate. what do you come up woth. if you do this math. the result will make you laugh. laugh at the discussion we are having. it is moot. and it will be. one may argue we can grow out of it. but one would also have to argue we would be increasing employment. and making policy that would dothatright?

[monkeyfelo]

real world stuff here Fred.

2000-2009 the average premiums have risen from $6,772 to $13,073 .

That is an increase of 93.0%, during the same time wages have risen 19.0%. That means that premiums have risen 4.9 faster than wages.

And not withstanding the 2.3 trillion dollars that Bush's tax cuts added to the deficit, it is important that all policies going forward address the deficit.

Good news then because HR 3962 net reduction in federal budget deficits of $109 billion 2010-2019

[FredCPA1962]

ok, cool. lets look at the cbo calc. know how they arrived at that figure? part of the calc is that the doctor fix will be done. the one that has NOT been done for the last 6 years. that accounts for 250bil$ that (most likely) will never materialize. you know what i am speaking of?

[monkeyfelo]

See again it shows that you don't read things before you make things up. Seeing as though the CBO score is for HR 3962 it does not take into account the Medicare doc fix which is HR 3961

[FredCPA1962]

does it take inot account revenues are raised for 10 years and costs are incurred for 8 years? i think it does. can we look at second 10 years. i was unaware the doc fix had been stripped out. so then the 109bil surplus is NOT including reducitons to hospital reimbursements. but does inlcude medicare cust of 500bill (10yr #)correct? am i on track with that one? what would be results of that? if indeed the final ver includes this. i beleive 3200 had it was pretty sure 3962 did include this.

[FredCPA1962]

lets continue, another way they arrive at that reduction in budget is: employers WILL dump employees into exchange then since they will "save" that cost (exchange is cheaper than buying 'real' insurance") the employer will give a raise to the employees for the diff, AND , get this, that added income for the employee will result in more tax revenues. to continue..there will be penalties for those that do not buy health insur now. taxes bascially.

[FredCPA1962]

now, we know that additional "revenues" (read taxes) will be raised by taxing the priv insurers for the "cadillac plans"; what do we expect the costs of those plans to do? go up? or down? does that exaccerbate the problem? or relieve it? you state the problme well. 93% incr in premiums while wages rise 20%. do we assume then after this bill is past wages would rise FASTER? what is basis for that vis a vis rate increases in priv plan premiums. seems counter intuitive. what is result?

[FredCPA1962]

seems result would be more people IN a public option plan (thats cheaper). if thats the case, how do costs reduce vis a vis budget? if more pople are IN pub opt exchange versuion while fewwer are in priv plans. i dunnio. walk me thru this.

[monkeyfelo]

Well gonna have to admit this is the last time I am going to "walk you through it" you should try googling things it is quite amazing.

CBO estimates that only 6 million people will choose the public plan. The vast majority of people will continue to get their care through employer sponsored coverage.

Benefits will continue to have a tax exclusion and so businesses will have a monetary incentive to continue to provide coverage for their employees.

[FredCPA1962]

yes guy. thats what they estimate. and that is where they are wrong. its cool. i am not going to walk you thru why they are wrong. you know in your heart that is rediculous.

[FredCPA1962]

but at some point if you care to, talk to someone who works with numbers all day long. who has done it for say 20-25 years. and they will tell you why the cbo is full of shit. in this regard. its your kharma dude. you still havent worked thru the math i have stated on why it is understated. please address (not here, in your own mind) my reasoning why it is a fallacy. i trust in you you to come to the correct conclusion. i have faith in you to really think this trough. good luck man.

[FredCPA1962]

and you still havent addressed the 8yr (rev)/10(yr)benefit donut hole vis a vis the 20 yr cost. please think that thru as well. or the 8% cost pr tax vs real costs of higher premiums for priv plans (INCLUDING new taxes loaded ontop). i know its not hard when you consider it all. you can hang your hat on cbo if you want. but there are many unaddressed issues i have raised here. i know they are inconvenient. i wish they werent. cause we both want the same thing. peace.

[FredCPA1962]

now monkey, lets just say that the debt is ok, casue we can inflate out of it. then one would have to take a loo at the holders of that debt. we've had higher debt as % of gdp in the past right? late 1940s. whio held that debt? what was their posture on inflating out of it? who holsd it now? what will their posture be? tell me please. cause this is germane to this discussion. it really is. to deny that would be silly. really, man. silly.

[FredCPA1962]

why do you think the dems DONT want THEIR children covered by this?? huh?? what doesd that tell you. god you are naive. i am sorry. but you are just dangerously naive. ya wanna talk about coverage for the uninsured, lets do it. i will run the nujbers FOR you. then tell me what they are doing now has anything at all to do with that. GET EDUCATED. PLEASE. I AM BEGGING YOU.

[monkeyfelo]

The CBO estimates that the House bill will extend coverage to 96% of Americans. The Republican alternative leaves 52 million citizens and legal residents below Medicare age without coverage in 2019 right where it is today

The House bill extends coverage to the uninsured, lowers premiums, and strengthens Medicare by, among other things, filling the donut hole in prescription drug coverage.

I suggest you don't know what you are talking about.

[FredCPA1962]

except for the fact that once employers who spend an average of 10k per employee now, with an employee kick in of approc 3500 or net cost to employer of 6500 realize that the ave employee at 40k gross can spend 8% (thru employer tax) of that gross or 3200 and dump their plan and send employees to gov option. then employee goes to the gov run market and finds that 3200 buts 3200 woth, not 10k worth. that previosly had. it cool man. i will sacrafice like i always have. and spend what i have to

[FredCPA1962]

to keep my son and wife alive. hell, i didnt buy a new car for 20 years. no sweat. i am used to it. but why would you want to do that damage to all those people that may not be able to. your call. your kharma. just do the math. call me names, if that makes you feel better. the math is still the math. and someday you'll understand. hopefully not too late. peace bro.

[vysehrad]

Most people are not covered by this. The public option will be available in its current form to between 5% and 10% of Americans.

Are you eligible for Medicare? Since the answer is no, do you therefore claim that Medicare is bad?

[FredCPA1962]

i do not claim anything. i state is is unaffriodable in its current form. thats what the math says. you can pretend its otherwise, thats cool. but soon you will know. 2+2=4. it walsy has and always will. do you know what % of gov budget is devoted to medicare>? what the projections are for that voer next 15 years? and how it will be cut in this bill. and what that will lead to. i am niot covered by it no. and have no illusions i eevr will be. as it will be means tested and eventually gone.

[FredCPA1962]

so are we ready to do the math then? tell me how mnay uninsured there are. tell me the componenets of that number. and how you want to deal with each group. that is, for example those that can afford so you force them to buy it. or those that are already covered but havent dinged up. thosr that are illgal aliens etc etf. lets qwork thir thru. see what we come up woth. i know it'll be hard but it wont take us 8 months.

[taxyttik17]

WOW the new song is Wonderful!

[2012YET]

LOL....notice around 1 min and 40 seconds that the girl says "Let's bring back Bush!".....that's me saying to her "That would be great!"....haha, I messed up their little audio clip. What a bunch of loser kids....they seriously had nothing better to do? They want to call all of us freedom fighters that we are advocating for the insurance companies to make them richer? Puhlease...btw, what the heck is wrong with being successful and making money for yourself? Dont we all wish we were billionaires

[atheistforchange]

i love this--i am so thrilled the bills showed up for the bachmann "press conference" protests..and serenaded congress--go bills!!

[doulando]

Bravo! judging by the responses here, you achieved your goal.

[niradg]

fun fact: the billionaire koch family actually paid for the buses that brought in yesterday's right-wing astroturf protesters

[VirginiaRebel13]

Douche bag commie liberals, I wish I was there to burn you down. If you don't love America get out. Europe is the perfect place for you with the other spineless Marxist. Everything Libs touch is ruined as CA and MA have been. Reep the whirl wind as your Marxist loving leaders are voted out or removed from office. Libs are cowards unlike us. Oh and I'll show you all a true teabagging. SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!!!

[conguera]

VirginiaRebel, you DO sound tyrannical, not to mention angry and violent. And you're threatening people with forced teabagging. I call that rape. We billionaires appreciate your efforts to make us even richer, but we can't condone violence. Sorry. You'll have to look for a Banana Republic for that. Pack your bags.

[notacountrystar]

Yes, I am a healthcare CEO and a billionaire and this video offends me. I NEVER wear white after Labor Day. I would die before drinking champagne out of a bottle. Joke's on you, lib-tards. I am classier than all of your fucking idoit asses.

[yellowcloud1]

Thats the best you guys can throw at us?C'mon, you guys are all young, and creative enough to put this stupid video together-and thats what you come up with?We're all rich?We all just want the insurance companies to make profits? That's pretty weak. You guys got all dressed up and made asses of yourselves to spread a message that is obviously lacking in content. But you know what? I will fight to the death to protect your right to make an ass of yourself, and that's what separates us from you

[Alvin691]

Now which is it. You call us poor white trash, now we are rich billionaires. I think you have lost track of your rhetoric.

[conguera]

Alvin, you're confused! You're the working class shlubs. Billionaires for Wealthcare represent the rich people you put so much effort into making even wealthier.

It's pretty sad when you don't even understand the message.

[larrym3369]

you are a douche bag. you have no idea. obamabot fucktard. god, you liberal fucks are stupid. stupid plants trying to stir up shit. who got arrested? OHHHHHH, the fuck face libtards who went in and messed with Lieberman. fucking idiots. grow up and get a clue.

[Tritium8]

Class is priceless :)