Hem The tourbillion is a complication because he increases the precision of the watch. With a tourbillion the watch is less sensible for the accelerations and the movements of the harm.
@radas666amadei - agreed, the tourbillion is usually shown off with the heart of the watch twisting and turning, how could anyone say that its not a complication?
@radas666amadei Unfortunately, you're quite wrong. No offence, but I think that you should find out what watchmakers mean by saying "a complication". Complication isn't everything that makes a watch more "complicated"
Okay, Hem "a complication isn't everything that makes a watch more complicated??" I could not agree without example. Give me just one example of a complication that doesn't complicate the watch.
"Give me just one example of a complication that doesn't complicate the watch" Dude, you still don't get it, right...? The term complication refers to any feature beyond the simple display of hours, minutes, and seconds in a timepiece. eg.: moon phase, dead second, second time zone, etc. etc. they all are complications. So, Tourbillon IS NOT a complication, it is a mechanical refinement. And so is an automatic winding mechanism, despite the fact both make a watch more complicated. :-)
@kisetsushin Well... Some Kool-Aid boys (like radas666amadei, for example) cannot bear the shame, when it turns out, that their bold claims made them look like enlightened dorks. Whatever, I couldn't care less :-) Peace, kisetsushin!
I have a lot more experience than you in high end watches if you think this is a tourbillion, no offense. You said yourself that these fetch a couple grand... A couple grand???? The cheapest (least expensive) tourbillion and a real tourbillion I may add is made by JLC and gets around $28K. These are Chinese knock offs and pieces of shit! A cool novelty for the less knowledgeable collector maybe, a good gift for a kid to play with. This is so far from a real tourbillion it is crazy.
You have no idea who i am or what i have experience with, just the fact that you assume you're better than someone without even knowing them in the least just proves how ignorant you really are. Do some real research.
You're right that the least expensive production tourbillon is available through JLC but you're amazing experience doesn't include vintage and antique pieces, not to mention the fact that the Chinese actually make genuine tourbillon starting at a couple hundred and going up to 40k.
I bet you also knew that Jaeger LeCoultre's tourbillon is actually not made by them. I'm sure you with your wealth of experience could name who actually makes it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I was going to let your faggy ass comments go, but 6 reply's, insecure are we? Did not insult your intelegence, but now that you mention it, any Horologist who says a tourbillion is not a complication is obviously not.. Really? You keep your jap pieces of shit, I never once in my life said i was better than anyone. I have a passion for horology and can give a f*** what you think or know. Never asked. Amazing experience? thx. I am a collector and collect real watches, you're a joke..
A tourbillon is not a complication because it doesn't change the time telling in any way, a complication is something that adds to the time telling or adds another feature, such as a moon phase, calender, date, repeater, etc. A tourbillon doesn't change the time telling in any way, therefore not a complication.
I also never said you insulted my intelligence, and insult yourself by misspelling the word. You have a horrible grasp of real horology and English.
"Jap"? Really? That's completely racist and ignorant, i guess you've never heard of Grand Seiko's which are equal and many times much better than high end swiss chronometers since Seiko came up with basic chronometer standards which are even stricter than the COSC.
The reason for all my comments is because every time i read one of your comments i find something wrong with your logic and i can't fit enough information into one comment to correct you.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I hate slopes, yeah so what. A tourbillion is not a complication?? Your an idiot, I found some of your other fake ass watches you indorse too, Seiko has some innovating stuff, like their sonierre but none the less your a know it all idiot. I would keep the comments up back and forth but I feel like I am talking to a child and actually work so keep your "$400 flying tourbillions" Hahaha tell your colleagues your a faggot and have watches that will last a year tops. homo.
What are you talking about? The tourbillon video i have is something a customer sent in because it would stop running randomly.
The problem wasn't the construction of the movement it was the assembly, it had particles of what looked like brass in the center wheel's teeth and they would get caught against the barrel and stop the watch.
See, unlike you, i actually have experience from working on real watches. You dismiss anything that isn't Swiss and you say you have a passion for horology?
Why don't you just respond to anything that i've said? You just keep trying to find something about me that's going to just suddenly change everything that i've said so far. You still think this is a Chinese knock off after i even sent you the video of another vintage tourbillon pocket watch similar to this.
You're also the one who decided to waist my time with your message, i wasn't going to even respond to your nonsense comment until you messaged me telling me about how you spend your money.
So, why is a tourbillon a complication? You seem to know so much about it, yet you have no real information to back up anything you say. I sound like a child? Please, you're just an insecure moron who realized just how pathetic he was and got himself in way over his head.
You can't even make an argument because you have nothing to add, you have no information to provide, nothing to back up and nothing of worth.
It's not cheap. What experience do you have with high end watches? I could show this to any of my colleagues and they'd say it's very high quality. I don't know who made these, but i've seen variations of this same type of tourbillon. This type with the tourbillon on the dial side is rarer than the kind with the tourbillon on the back visible from a small crystal, but neither of them are cheap, even in bad condition they're at least a few grand.
Call me crazy, but it looks a lot like a Hebdomas, which would be crazy since almost all Hebdomas watches had low end movements, and the only upside to them were the elaborate dials and hands, but this has a tourbillon, so either this is one of those 1 dollar tourbillon that were selling around the advent of the wristwatch or this is a genuinely well made Hebdomas, or just not a Hebdomas at all, but the case, crown, dial position, bridge over the balance all scream HEBDOMAS.
It does look like a hebdoma, but I looked for a tourbillon hebdomas around the web and come out empty. So I believe its a custom made pocket watch and thank you the information
It's rare, but i highly doubt it to be custom made, i've seen a few tourbillon pocket watches like this, the bridge and cage are always a little different, but the design is nearly identical. During the advent of the wrist watch a lot of these tourbillon pocket watches were being sold for a dollar, so even though this is very well finished, it's unlikely to have been custom made, most of the parts probably weren't even hand made.
You're thinking of dollar watches, which were made before the popularity of wrist watches even came to be.
That said, they were all very low grade and NONE of them were tourbillons.
All zero jewel, pressed plate pieces of junk. But, they kept time within a minute a day and for a dollar or so gave everyone who wanted it, a time piece to call their own.
I'm not confused, they were at one point selling for 1 dollar, and yes they were tourbillon. Tourbillon watches aren't as amazing as the "luxury" swiss companies claim.
Look up Waterbury Tourbillon. They were so cheap you had to set the hands on them like clocks, by manually moving the hands. They're not the same as a tourbillon where only the escapement and balance rotate, the entire movement rotates inside the case, therefore making it a tourbillon.
Ah! You're talking about the few "Long Winds" made.
However, it requires a very liberal interpretation of the word "Tourbillon" as in true horological terms, a true tourbillon is one where the escapement and balance wheel rotate in their own cage, disconnected from the movement.
Rather in the case with the long winds, the entire movement rotates inside the case.
Emulating, but not acting as a true tourbillon.
However, I do agree the tourbillon is a very overvalued complication.
In my opinion a tourbillon is defined by it's effects not on it's execution.
Also, clearly it's acting as a true tourbillon, the escapement and regulating mechanisms rotate in it's own axis inside the watch, because there's a center wheel in the casing where the rest of the movement rotates it's technically rotating inside the movement.
A tourbillon is also not a complication, it doesn't change the way you tell time nor add anything extra to the normal time telling.
I vote it to be modern custom made, stylized for hebdomas. And tourbillon is a complication, because it does nothing but is a funny thing, harder to manufacture and hence more prestigious. I complicates the movement.
well, that's one way to keep a watch position accurate, keep the position changing at all times.
Polybun 6 days ago
I could be wrong but I believe this is a Shanghai tourbillon.
douro20 11 months ago
its a pokeball
MaveHH 1 year ago 2
@MaveHH I had to think realy long before i got that one XD
thewalkingdutchman1 1 year ago
Hem The tourbillion is a complication because he increases the precision of the watch. With a tourbillion the watch is less sensible for the accelerations and the movements of the harm.
Sorry but you wrong.
radas666amadei 2 years ago
@radas666amadei - agreed, the tourbillion is usually shown off with the heart of the watch twisting and turning, how could anyone say that its not a complication?
zorky101 2 years ago
@radas666amadei Unfortunately, you're quite wrong. No offence, but I think that you should find out what watchmakers mean by saying "a complication". Complication isn't everything that makes a watch more "complicated"
szybkilopez566 1 year ago
Okay, Hem "a complication isn't everything that makes a watch more complicated??" I could not agree without example. Give me just one example of a complication that doesn't complicate the watch.
radas666amadei 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Give me just one example of a complication that doesn't complicate the watch" Dude, you still don't get it, right...? The term complication refers to any feature beyond the simple display of hours, minutes, and seconds in a timepiece. eg.: moon phase, dead second, second time zone, etc. etc. they all are complications. So, Tourbillon IS NOT a complication, it is a mechanical refinement. And so is an automatic winding mechanism, despite the fact both make a watch more complicated. :-)
szybkilopez566 1 year ago 6
@szybkilopez566
Your comment being marked as spam just shows how arrogant some people are.
"He makes perfect sense and is supported by experienced watchmakers, but he's a spammer".
What a bunch of ignoramuses.
kisetsushin 1 year ago
@kisetsushin Well... Some Kool-Aid boys (like radas666amadei, for example) cannot bear the shame, when it turns out, that their bold claims made them look like enlightened dorks. Whatever, I couldn't care less :-) Peace, kisetsushin!
szybkilopez566 1 year ago
@szybkilopez566 Yes!
ChicaWolverina 1 year ago
Comment removed
radas666amadei 2 years ago
"i am swiss cheese"
Microglia1 2 years ago
I have a lot more experience than you in high end watches if you think this is a tourbillion, no offense. You said yourself that these fetch a couple grand... A couple grand???? The cheapest (least expensive) tourbillion and a real tourbillion I may add is made by JLC and gets around $28K. These are Chinese knock offs and pieces of shit! A cool novelty for the less knowledgeable collector maybe, a good gift for a kid to play with. This is so far from a real tourbillion it is crazy.
doubleup5150 2 years ago
You have no idea who i am or what i have experience with, just the fact that you assume you're better than someone without even knowing them in the least just proves how ignorant you really are. Do some real research.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
You're right that the least expensive production tourbillon is available through JLC but you're amazing experience doesn't include vintage and antique pieces, not to mention the fact that the Chinese actually make genuine tourbillon starting at a couple hundred and going up to 40k.
I bet you also knew that Jaeger LeCoultre's tourbillon is actually not made by them. I'm sure you with your wealth of experience could name who actually makes it.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
One last thing, i'm not a collector, i'm a professional Horologist.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I was going to let your faggy ass comments go, but 6 reply's, insecure are we? Did not insult your intelegence, but now that you mention it, any Horologist who says a tourbillion is not a complication is obviously not.. Really? You keep your jap pieces of shit, I never once in my life said i was better than anyone. I have a passion for horology and can give a f*** what you think or know. Never asked. Amazing experience? thx. I am a collector and collect real watches, you're a joke..
doubleup5150 2 years ago
A tourbillon is not a complication because it doesn't change the time telling in any way, a complication is something that adds to the time telling or adds another feature, such as a moon phase, calender, date, repeater, etc. A tourbillon doesn't change the time telling in any way, therefore not a complication.
I also never said you insulted my intelligence, and insult yourself by misspelling the word. You have a horrible grasp of real horology and English.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
"Jap"? Really? That's completely racist and ignorant, i guess you've never heard of Grand Seiko's which are equal and many times much better than high end swiss chronometers since Seiko came up with basic chronometer standards which are even stricter than the COSC.
The reason for all my comments is because every time i read one of your comments i find something wrong with your logic and i can't fit enough information into one comment to correct you.
Keep collecting your "real" watches.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I hate slopes, yeah so what. A tourbillion is not a complication?? Your an idiot, I found some of your other fake ass watches you indorse too, Seiko has some innovating stuff, like their sonierre but none the less your a know it all idiot. I would keep the comments up back and forth but I feel like I am talking to a child and actually work so keep your "$400 flying tourbillions" Hahaha tell your colleagues your a faggot and have watches that will last a year tops. homo.
doubleup5150 2 years ago
What are you talking about? The tourbillon video i have is something a customer sent in because it would stop running randomly.
The problem wasn't the construction of the movement it was the assembly, it had particles of what looked like brass in the center wheel's teeth and they would get caught against the barrel and stop the watch.
See, unlike you, i actually have experience from working on real watches. You dismiss anything that isn't Swiss and you say you have a passion for horology?
kisetsushin 2 years ago
Why don't you just respond to anything that i've said? You just keep trying to find something about me that's going to just suddenly change everything that i've said so far. You still think this is a Chinese knock off after i even sent you the video of another vintage tourbillon pocket watch similar to this.
You're also the one who decided to waist my time with your message, i wasn't going to even respond to your nonsense comment until you messaged me telling me about how you spend your money.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
So, why is a tourbillon a complication? You seem to know so much about it, yet you have no real information to back up anything you say. I sound like a child? Please, you're just an insecure moron who realized just how pathetic he was and got himself in way over his head.
You can't even make an argument because you have nothing to add, you have no information to provide, nothing to back up and nothing of worth.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
@doubleup5150 LMFAO, what a pilock, honestly.
szybkilopez566 1 year ago
A tourbillon is NOT a complication, i'm student my teachers confirmed me that it is not a complication
artfox007 2 years ago 2
something about the movement, dont think it is a true tourbillion, looks cheap
doubleup5150 2 years ago
It's not cheap. What experience do you have with high end watches? I could show this to any of my colleagues and they'd say it's very high quality. I don't know who made these, but i've seen variations of this same type of tourbillon. This type with the tourbillon on the dial side is rarer than the kind with the tourbillon on the back visible from a small crystal, but neither of them are cheap, even in bad condition they're at least a few grand.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
ダボ押しの花時計でトゥルビヨンは始めて見た
NEKORIKI33J 2 years ago
who made this watch
evilamish 3 years ago
Comment removed
kisetsushin 2 years ago
Call me crazy, but it looks a lot like a Hebdomas, which would be crazy since almost all Hebdomas watches had low end movements, and the only upside to them were the elaborate dials and hands, but this has a tourbillon, so either this is one of those 1 dollar tourbillon that were selling around the advent of the wristwatch or this is a genuinely well made Hebdomas, or just not a Hebdomas at all, but the case, crown, dial position, bridge over the balance all scream HEBDOMAS.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
It does look like a hebdoma, but I looked for a tourbillon hebdomas around the web and come out empty. So I believe its a custom made pocket watch and thank you the information
evilamish 2 years ago
It's rare, but i highly doubt it to be custom made, i've seen a few tourbillon pocket watches like this, the bridge and cage are always a little different, but the design is nearly identical. During the advent of the wrist watch a lot of these tourbillon pocket watches were being sold for a dollar, so even though this is very well finished, it's unlikely to have been custom made, most of the parts probably weren't even hand made.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
There's actually one selling on ebay right now for around 4k, selling through Ashland investments.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
What? No... you're confused.
You're thinking of dollar watches, which were made before the popularity of wrist watches even came to be.
That said, they were all very low grade and NONE of them were tourbillons.
All zero jewel, pressed plate pieces of junk. But, they kept time within a minute a day and for a dollar or so gave everyone who wanted it, a time piece to call their own.
GRAFHC 2 years ago
I'm not confused, they were at one point selling for 1 dollar, and yes they were tourbillon. Tourbillon watches aren't as amazing as the "luxury" swiss companies claim.
Look up Waterbury Tourbillon. They were so cheap you had to set the hands on them like clocks, by manually moving the hands. They're not the same as a tourbillon where only the escapement and balance rotate, the entire movement rotates inside the case, therefore making it a tourbillon.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
Ah! You're talking about the few "Long Winds" made.
However, it requires a very liberal interpretation of the word "Tourbillon" as in true horological terms, a true tourbillon is one where the escapement and balance wheel rotate in their own cage, disconnected from the movement.
Rather in the case with the long winds, the entire movement rotates inside the case.
Emulating, but not acting as a true tourbillon.
However, I do agree the tourbillon is a very overvalued complication.
GRAFHC 2 years ago
In my opinion a tourbillon is defined by it's effects not on it's execution.
Also, clearly it's acting as a true tourbillon, the escapement and regulating mechanisms rotate in it's own axis inside the watch, because there's a center wheel in the casing where the rest of the movement rotates it's technically rotating inside the movement.
A tourbillon is also not a complication, it doesn't change the way you tell time nor add anything extra to the normal time telling.
kisetsushin 2 years ago
I vote it to be modern custom made, stylized for hebdomas. And tourbillon is a complication, because it does nothing but is a funny thing, harder to manufacture and hence more prestigious. I complicates the movement.
assa123assa123 2 years ago