Interesting account, but I think you are selective in your interpretation. The iron cage refers to the overwhelming rationalization in general, of which bureaucracy is only one aspect. Other aspects are for example materialism and modern capitalism (!). So he lamented the loss of values. "Specialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of civilization never before achieved." (TPEatSoC)
Weber is a well known sociologist in interpretivism his research into Calvinism is legendary like Durkheims research into Suicide. Marx thinks that society influences the person and shapes who we are while Weber thinks that we shape society.
hey, before you comment on max webers iron cage a quarter of the way through, is the stuff about marx, durkheim and weber all related to the iron cage?? its just i dont want to get confused about what the iron cage is
@stupiddog528 no Durkheims and Marxs work is different to Weber Durkheim and Marx think that Religion is Traditional as every religion has the same principles i.e faith although Marx sees this in a negative light. However Weber believes that Religion is a force for social change and uses Calvinism as a concept about how it developed Capitalist society.
Marx is accepted as a sociologist by sociologist. The Communist Manifesto was ignored for a long time, due to the countries who utilized Communism (even though those countries didn't follow Marx's form of Communism). His analysis of the problems in Capitalism, such as alienation and downward pressure, are recognized and respected.
I believe so. Marx wanted to get rid of the downward pressure from business onto their workers. The communist countries tended to keep the pressure, and just had it coming from governments instead of businesses. Maybe if it weren't for the arms race Russia was having with America, trying to be as successful as possible as quick as possible, they may have followed Marx's idea better, but we'll never know. I don't think there is a form of communism that has kept true to Marx's ideas.
It is not accurate to say that Weber saw bureaucracy as only good for creating an iron cage. He was ambivalent about bureaucracy, seeing it as necessary for maintaining the level of civilization we currently inhabit, while also realizing the manner in which is hinders personal freedom.
@MonkeyLynx Your contribution to this ongoing dialogue on Max Weber, is appreciated. What you refer to as "personal freedom" are the civil rights of people. Currently, civil rights of people worldwide, are taking a backseat to nation states, with no end in sight. Bureaucracy as a necessary evil, may at first appear as an efficient means of managing the business of the state; however, in the post 9/11 world, bureaucracy has come to include extraordinary rendition.
As he writes in Economy & Society "experience tends to show that the purely bureaucratic type of administrative organization -- that it, the monocratic variety of bureaucracy-- is, from a purely technical point of view,
capable of attaining the highest degree of efficiency and is formally the most rational known means of exercising authority over human beings." (this rationality is in contrast to the whims of the feudal lords who called all the shots before the advent of impersonal bureaucracies).
Weber then goes on to note that bureaucracies are precise, stable and reliable for those within them and those working in relation to them, something that is necessary for modern capitalism. That said, he was clearly pessimistic about the longterm effect of bureaucracy on individuals but this was tempered by his recognition of such mechanisms for the purposes of mass administration.
Amazing videos. You succeed in presenting some rather complex concepts in a very easy to follow way and without taking away any of their more nuanced meanings. I must say, you've helped me a lot in getting into the basics of sociology (doing it as a part of my law degree).
@SneakyDudeBG hey dude, glad to hear sociology is on your menu to becoming esq. Hope you're checking out the astute contributions from Monkey Lynx and Seftzig19.
Hello, I just want to say THANK YOU for this great video. I am studying for my Public Administration exam and was stumped on Max Weber. Your explanation was incredible. Continue with your videos")
I have recently begun to approach the critique of psychiatric abuses, unsing the sociological formulations posited by Weber. Of particular interest is Webers "Methodological Individualism". As I understand it, this methodological "approach" is most promising, as it addresses institutional critique with an emphasis on the individuals who make up the respective institution (bureaucracy). How might Weber help to bring about greater transparency and accoutability within institutions?
Thank you for the video. I made it through and finished The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism today and have been checking out related videos here, and I have really enjoyed yours!
Hello: Although I majored in economics, I always knew sociology is so very revealing. What you watched my other sociology videos? Sociology 101 - Weber, Durkheim, Marx & Mills The Sociological Imagination Bureaucracy and the Idiot Reason and the Cheerful Robot Is Mills Relevant Today? Why the Middle Class Hates the Poor Social Darwinism Religion 102 - Part I (Based on Durkheim) Religion 102 - Part II (Based on Durkheim) All the Best / Mike Hogan C. Wright Mills
Two years ago I took a Sociology class at a local college. The tenured professor did present Marx as the original exponent of the class conflict paradigm (1 of 3). In effect, categorizing Marx as a father of Sociology. The professor was also the most knowledgeable person I ever met on the subject of Marx. At one point, he informed a student she had a "false consciousness," with respect to the subject under discussion.
The ongoing Red Scare has silenced academia on Marx.
The short answer is no. Please view my RadioHogan videos entitled:
Bureaucacy & the Idiot
Reason & the Cheerful Robot
Also serch the radiohogan channel for mills.
The Post Modern technocracy (capitalism or socialism or any ism) requires efficiency. Bureaucracies are thought to be rational & efficient. I think there are other more rational and efficient forms of organization.
You mentioned that Weber was a "structural functionalist." I'm afraid Weber was not a structural functionalist--you were probably thinking of Durkheim. Intead, Weber emphasized the notion of "verstehen" (i.e., the idea of understanding the subjective meanings that propel human action). In this sense, unlike structural functionalists, weber emphasized human agency and di not reduce people to roles and role networks.
Thank you for bestowing an honorary doctorate on me. It will go well with my Bachelor of Arts degree majoring in economics. However, sociology has since become my great interest.
Interesting account, but I think you are selective in your interpretation. The iron cage refers to the overwhelming rationalization in general, of which bureaucracy is only one aspect. Other aspects are for example materialism and modern capitalism (!). So he lamented the loss of values. "Specialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of civilization never before achieved." (TPEatSoC)
Also, bureaucracy is not only state bureaucracy.
grooveholmes99 3 months ago
A lot of what you say is true, but you do not go far enough about education in USA. They teach nothing that i would say is a true world education.
TheThepostie 6 months ago
dont title your video iron cage if you only spend about 45 seconds talking about iron cage in a 9minute 26 second video
Millsisthename 10 months ago
i wish you were my lecturer
steffykarjybaby 11 months ago
Weber is a well known sociologist in interpretivism his research into Calvinism is legendary like Durkheims research into Suicide. Marx thinks that society influences the person and shapes who we are while Weber thinks that we shape society.
MTCoblivsicas12345 1 year ago
5.00
thefloris007 1 year ago
It begins @ 2:00 iff you only want Iron cage :D
thefloris007 1 year ago
hey, before you comment on max webers iron cage a quarter of the way through, is the stuff about marx, durkheim and weber all related to the iron cage?? its just i dont want to get confused about what the iron cage is
thanks
stupiddog528 1 year ago
@stupiddog528 sorry half way through not a quarter
stupiddog528 1 year ago
@stupiddog528 no Durkheims and Marxs work is different to Weber Durkheim and Marx think that Religion is Traditional as every religion has the same principles i.e faith although Marx sees this in a negative light. However Weber believes that Religion is a force for social change and uses Calvinism as a concept about how it developed Capitalist society.
MTCoblivsicas12345 1 year ago
good review----now i understand the concept of the iron cage for my exam tomorrow -_-
summermarley10 1 year ago
Marx is accepted as a sociologist by sociologist. The Communist Manifesto was ignored for a long time, due to the countries who utilized Communism (even though those countries didn't follow Marx's form of Communism). His analysis of the problems in Capitalism, such as alienation and downward pressure, are recognized and respected.
sefitzge19 1 year ago
@sefitzge19 Thank you for your cogent analysis of Marx. Do you think Marx's work was perhaps misused or misrepresented by totalitarian governments?
radiohogan 1 year ago
@radiohogan
I believe so. Marx wanted to get rid of the downward pressure from business onto their workers. The communist countries tended to keep the pressure, and just had it coming from governments instead of businesses. Maybe if it weren't for the arms race Russia was having with America, trying to be as successful as possible as quick as possible, they may have followed Marx's idea better, but we'll never know. I don't think there is a form of communism that has kept true to Marx's ideas.
sefitzge19 1 year ago
It is not accurate to say that Weber saw bureaucracy as only good for creating an iron cage. He was ambivalent about bureaucracy, seeing it as necessary for maintaining the level of civilization we currently inhabit, while also realizing the manner in which is hinders personal freedom.
MonkeyLynx 1 year ago
@MonkeyLynx Your contribution to this ongoing dialogue on Max Weber, is appreciated. What you refer to as "personal freedom" are the civil rights of people. Currently, civil rights of people worldwide, are taking a backseat to nation states, with no end in sight. Bureaucracy as a necessary evil, may at first appear as an efficient means of managing the business of the state; however, in the post 9/11 world, bureaucracy has come to include extraordinary rendition.
radiohogan 1 year ago
As he writes in Economy & Society "experience tends to show that the purely bureaucratic type of administrative organization -- that it, the monocratic variety of bureaucracy-- is, from a purely technical point of view,
MonkeyLynx 1 year ago
capable of attaining the highest degree of efficiency and is formally the most rational known means of exercising authority over human beings." (this rationality is in contrast to the whims of the feudal lords who called all the shots before the advent of impersonal bureaucracies).
MonkeyLynx 1 year ago
Weber then goes on to note that bureaucracies are precise, stable and reliable for those within them and those working in relation to them, something that is necessary for modern capitalism. That said, he was clearly pessimistic about the longterm effect of bureaucracy on individuals but this was tempered by his recognition of such mechanisms for the purposes of mass administration.
MonkeyLynx 1 year ago
Amazing videos. You succeed in presenting some rather complex concepts in a very easy to follow way and without taking away any of their more nuanced meanings. I must say, you've helped me a lot in getting into the basics of sociology (doing it as a part of my law degree).
SneakyDudeBG 1 year ago
@SneakyDudeBG hey dude, glad to hear sociology is on your menu to becoming esq. Hope you're checking out the astute contributions from Monkey Lynx and Seftzig19.
radiohogan 1 year ago
Love your videos, great work sir... =)
DavidBr84 1 year ago
Hello, I just want to say THANK YOU for this great video. I am studying for my Public Administration exam and was stumped on Max Weber. Your explanation was incredible. Continue with your videos")
sbaab21 2 years ago
I have recently begun to approach the critique of psychiatric abuses, unsing the sociological formulations posited by Weber. Of particular interest is Webers "Methodological Individualism". As I understand it, this methodological "approach" is most promising, as it addresses institutional critique with an emphasis on the individuals who make up the respective institution (bureaucracy). How might Weber help to bring about greater transparency and accoutability within institutions?
whiff1962 2 years ago
Thank you for the video. I made it through and finished The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism today and have been checking out related videos here, and I have really enjoyed yours!
ohlodegato 2 years ago
Mr.Hogan, thank you very much for your interesting lectures. I hope to follow your work in sociology..
buzzmaxwell 2 years ago
radiohogan 2 years ago
Hey MH, in my video response I talk about some of Max Weber's theories about the state. Enjoy!
- DonJack
DonJack1776 2 years ago
Good, but as a Sociologist. I can confirm that we, as Sociologist's do in fact cite Marx as one of the founding fathers of Sociology.
lightingnoir 2 years ago
Hello LightingNoir:
Two years ago I took a Sociology class at a local college. The tenured professor did present Marx as the original exponent of the class conflict paradigm (1 of 3). In effect, categorizing Marx as a father of Sociology. The professor was also the most knowledgeable person I ever met on the subject of Marx. At one point, he informed a student she had a "false consciousness," with respect to the subject under discussion.
The ongoing Red Scare has silenced academia on Marx.
radiohogan 2 years ago
Do you think there could be an alternative to bureaucracy?
aikpanchi 2 years ago
Hello Aikpanchi:
The short answer is no. Please view my RadioHogan videos entitled:
Bureaucacy & the Idiot
Reason & the Cheerful Robot
Also serch the radiohogan channel for mills.
The Post Modern technocracy (capitalism or socialism or any ism) requires efficiency. Bureaucracies are thought to be rational & efficient. I think there are other more rational and efficient forms of organization.
Live and Be Well / Mike Hogan
radiohogan 2 years ago
You mentioned that Weber was a "structural functionalist." I'm afraid Weber was not a structural functionalist--you were probably thinking of Durkheim. Intead, Weber emphasized the notion of "verstehen" (i.e., the idea of understanding the subjective meanings that propel human action). In this sense, unlike structural functionalists, weber emphasized human agency and di not reduce people to roles and role networks.
Praxis71 2 years ago
Hello Praxis71:
Shame on me. Thank you for correcting me.
All the Best / Mike Hogan
radiohogan 2 years ago
Once again this is radio hogan :)
luvsit06 2 years ago
Dear CamKiosoglous:
Thank you for bestowing an honorary doctorate on me. It will go well with my Bachelor of Arts degree majoring in economics. However, sociology has since become my great interest.
Live and Be Well / Mike Hogan
radiohogan 2 years ago
Dr. Hogan, I appreciate your video post on Max Weber. I found your presentation straight to the point and very concise. Thank you!
CamKiosoglous 2 years ago
Good work Hogan...way to penetrate the beauracracy of university education...
BANIC21 2 years ago
Hello BANIC21:
Thank you.
All the Best / mike Hogan
radiohogan 2 years ago
Brazilian students salute you, dude!
asturras 3 years ago
I salute all Brazilians.
radiohogan 3 years ago
ola da irlanda
lughlamh 3 years ago
your thoughts are great, I really like that someone is contributing to our society's education.
flentie 3 years ago
Hi:
Your comment is very much appreciated.
All the Best / Mike Hogan
radiohogan 3 years ago
Great vid, man.
cvjucla3 3 years ago
Hi:
Your comment is very much appreciated.
All the Best / Mike Hogan
radiohogan 3 years ago
keep em coming
PhillyKid07 3 years ago
Hi:
Your comment is very much appreciated.
All the Best / Mike Hogan
radiohogan 3 years ago