I am a moderate, both sides hate me so what, I hate ideologues. Trouble is that the movie really was sort of lame, it had a few good scenes like at the college with the song and dance number of old profs. But most of it was about how great war and guns are. I
Hey, Suck-Like-A-Vac: Don't worry your goddamn noodleheaded ass about that fat fucked-up faggot Mikey Moore, and get back to helping yer mommy scrub the shit stains outa yer Spiderman shorts, oyster-face. Now MOVE! Case closed.
A great movie that is not only funny but also has many great politcal points I would watch a liberial movie but liberials never make funny movies unless it is an accedent
Propaganda movie explaining that all Muslims are terrorists and anyone who criticizes the U.S. hates America. Do all Christians take their congregations into the jungle and feed them cyanide laced Kool-Ade? That hypothesis makes as much sense as the reasoning behind this movie.
All in all this movie was a total waste of time. Both mine, and the people involved in making it. Political satire is a powerful tool, but this did not come close.
An American Carol este, după mine, o încercare penibilă de a-l denigra pe Michael Moore. Chiar dacă lucrurile nu sunt prezentate clar în felul acesta, cei care au văzut macar un film al regizorului american știu despre ce e vorba. Până și numele regizorulii din film este Michael Malone, similar cu Moore. Primele 10 minute sunt parcă din alt film, o comedie chiar foarte bună, ca puțin mai târziu să fiu complet dezamăgit de penibilitatea filmului.
THIS MOVIE BOMBED at the box office! It came in 9th in it's OPENING WEEKEND! What a crap sandwich! LOL! It will be in the 99 Cent bin by next weekend... sorry ass neoCONS!
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News Flash--"American Carol" BEAT "Religulous" at the box office, with a gross of $3,656,000 as compared to $3,409,643 for "Religulous". Don't criticize a movie because it tells the truth.
I'll repeat this again for you, since you've seemed to overlook it
NEWS FLASH-- "Carol" opened in 1,639...while Religulous only opened in about 500. "Carol" averaged about $2,325 per theater.
"Religulous", by comparison had a per screen average of $6,972.
That's a pathetic showing by "Carol," and a strong showing for ""Religulous." For a movie to be shown 1/3 as much as another, and for that movie to almost tie in revenue, is sad.
That doesn't change the fact that Carol still made more than Religulous now does it? Opening in 1/3 less theaters is a poor excuse for failing to match or beat Carol if indeed Religulous was the insightful film you claim it to be. Now go ahead and give me the typical liberal response that consists of name calling and curse words without any substance to back it up.
Religulous: Gross = $3,409,643 Openings = 502 Average = $6,792 Budget = $2,500,000 Net Profit =$909,643 An American Carol: Gross = $3,656,000 Openings = 1,639 Average = $2,231 Budget = $20,000,000 Net Profit = -$16,344,400 Typical liberal response = using actual facts I guess? I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. If you're too stupid to understand basic math, go back to school.
The thing is that this film can make fun of Michael Moore all they want, but the truth is that Michael Moore is talented. I just wished he could have slapped Bil O'Reilly right back...
Your correct! Michael Moore is very talented at twisting the facts and presenting a "documentary" that is 99.9% BS!! I saw the movie Friday and it is well worth the price of admission. I can't believe Hollywood would put out a movie with some truth in it.
Yep, talented at twisting the "facts" into his insane version of reality. Look at all the books, movies, and web sites that cropped up just to correct the record of lies that Michael Moore spews in his films. If he was a truthful and fair documentarian, this would not be necessary.
in July. It was hysterical. I mean, tears rolling down the face, belly achingly funny.
And I'm a Democrat. I must admit these days
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that, especially when reading the inane comments by other Democrats. Zucker is going to read all of your reactions to a movie you haven't even seen yet and use it as fodder for his next parody of Liberals.
You Liberals make me want to vote Republican. I'll just vote AGAINST socialism.
i admit that michael moore is very irritating and in fact wrong about a lot of the information in his movies, but this is just a stupid, immature way to address it. bill o'reilly is an idiot, and FOX news is anything but "fair and balanced"
Opens Oct. 3rd! Let's all give it a huge box office open. Cannot wait to see this hilarious spoof on idiot liberals. It's about time a major Hollywood filmmaker and CONSERVATIVE actors who've come out of the closet put out a film like this. We could all use a good laugh and what's funnier than making fun of ridiculous liberals???
Michael Moore does a fair amount to embarrass himself, he doesn't need the help of an unfunny movie.
This movie looks horrible, the jokes all seem to stem from seething hatred of their political opponents/ideological counterparts/gay rights/black people and muslims. I got that all from just watching the trailer, imagine how bad the actual movie is going to be.
Hah ha, he's standing in front of the Che Guevara hospital! This movie has to be seen by everybody: the more understanding you are, the more of a kick you'll get.
Oh, and this guy (Zucker) was a former liberal. Fear not the change of heart, because the cold stone is that which stands the most resistant to it.
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, AGAINST totalitarianism and FOR democratic socialism, as I understand it,"
Orwell was also a proponent of a federal socialist Europe, a position outlined in his 1947 essay 'Toward European Unity', which first appeared in Partisan Review.
Propagandhi900, make one comment and make it stick. Three in a row just gets fucking annoying. Now shut the fuck up you Eric-Blair-loving bastard.
If people want to go see the movie, that is their prerogative you son-of-a-bitch. Now run along now--I think I hear your old man callin' you...time to earn your weekly allowance sucking on daddy's cock.
"If people want to go see the movie, that is their prerogative you son-of-a-bitch. Now run along now--I think I hear your old man callin' you...time to earn your weekly allowance sucking on daddy's cock."
i think most of the people that rip on moore don't bother to watch his movies. i love his movies and this looks funny to me....and it's from the maker of 'the naked gun', how can you go wrong?
Oh Propagandhi, I'm so glad you had time away from your government-sponsored trailer and your food stamps to call us names. Go ahead and father 7 more kids so you can get more welfare money to compensate for your sub 3rd grade "edjumakasion"
really you better do your research democrats are generous with other people money not their own mony. when it comes to personal donations republicans outgive the democrats. And Bush who is a RINO has given more federal money to fight aids and other humantarian aid than any other president in history
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republicans for sure. their idiots. they dont like that he talks about how insurance-companies make people go poor so their CEOs have big houses, and how Moore told us all Bush was friends with the BinLadens.
Their lucky he hasn't done a film on how 911 was planned -or atleast ALLOWED- by 'someone' here.
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Yeah.
9/11 was planned by Bin Laden, not the Bush Admin, but I admit that they didn't act on the information they were given and then they took full advantage of the situation.
This trailer is multiplying and spreading like a wildfire. If anyone gets an intense pain in the Jaw line from viewing this trailer, that is one sign of of a 'coronary' event. The cholesterol buildup and blood clots in the arteries of the heart, which tend to buildup with long hours at the computer, tend to break away with stress. Not only is the left arm affected. Call a lawyer at first sign of intense pain and have this trailer taken down. This is a public service announcement. 911
Even if it wasn't an attack on Moore, it is still going to be a terrible movie.
Even the conservatives who read this should know that Zucker started going downhill after the first Scary Movie. He's ran on the same concept for movies since Naked Gun.
The wit is just absent, the attack is clear, the humour is lacking.
They are portraying Moore as wanting to destroy July 4th and America, when this isn't even within the range of satirical examination.
An overwhelmingly outspoken Republican cast, including Gary Coleman who ran for Governor of California as a Republican.
The cast are not only past their prime but are seemingly desperate for attention, and quite frankly a job.
The cast just isn't going to cut it. They, along with the absent wit and humour, will make this movie a lot worse than it would have been with a better cast.
David Zucker also a conservative. (Conservatives aren't that funny).
Wow. You have alot to say about a movie that you have not seen. Hasn't even been screened for critics yet, so they have not spoken about it (intelligently).
I will make no such prediction about the success of the movie yet. But since you are Mr. ESP, which numbers should I play in the lottery this weekend?
The Diversity at Work Glossary, recognizes multiculturalism as part of "a policy introduced by the federal government in 1971, which acknowledges that many ethnic Canadians experience unequal access to resources and opportunities. It urges more recognition of the contributions of such Canadians, the preservation of certain expressions of their ethnicity, and more equity in the treatment of all Canadians.
It is about time they got a good movie that an American can enjoy out of Hollywood. I am sure the actors will all be black listed from making anymore movies. When will the left be out protesting?
This is the right wings attempt(not the gov) to reach a wide audience (using comedy; not a lot of people would go see a documentary since it would need facts which the Right can't find), and discredit Michael Moore.
Oh, so it's not the government, it is the right wing. Got it. Who in the right wing is in charge of this concerted effort? Where does their money come from?
i) Moore is unpatriotic
ii) Moore uses exaggerations AND lies (watch Faren-hype 9-11; a documentary that was full of "right wing" facts.)
iii) Not intentionally, but same result
iv) Many agree.
If it does well, it is also what the people want to see.
O'Reilly in a cameo? Good casting for the role: he plays HIMSELF!
In this case the movies producers and so forth. The money comes form the studios who are against Moore.
i) How is Moore unpatriotic? You conservatives never seem to come up with an adequate answer. He tries time again to improve your country and your lives. (PS Patriotic means believing in ur country, not ur gov.)
ii) You believe Faren-Hype 9/11 just because it is against Moore. You have no evidence. Moore however has given a fact list on his website with SOURCES in tact. Go there.
"Movie producers and so forth" are against Moore? That must be why he has produced movies thru them, distributed movies thru them, and nominated for Oscar by them. Please give me those kinds of enemies. I'll be rich!
i) He attacks the gov't w/out evidence (9/11), and dengrates the country with falsehoods. I don't want him "improving" my country. His improvements (uni healthcare) will cause too much damage.
ii) I believe FH9-11 bcse it is supported w/evidence. You don't bcse it is against MM.
When did I say that all were against Moore? I'm saying that through right leaning production companies and writers have given a response to Moore's documentaries. This response isn't to appeal to the intellectual American via Documentary, but through comedy, which will reach a much wider audience. An Audience which know Moore only through commercials.
i)w w w (dott) michaelmoore (dott) com / warroom / f911notes
ii) show me the evidence of the fact in Farenhype.
OK, so you don't believe "all" the "movie producers and so forth" are against MM. Which ones do you think would be? Keep in mind that their primary goal is to make money, and turning out a product that won't do that is career limitting.
As the movie has not opened yet, I don't know how you can say that the movie will not appeal to intellectual American. Seen a sneak preview, have you?
ii) Watch Farenhype. Whole thing is refutation via interview and fact.
I don't know which ones. It's just that the right needed a response to Moore and they made one that people who wouldn't watch a documentary would enjoy.
ii) Farenhype 9/11 has NOT successfully debunked any of Moore's facts. If it has then he would have been all over the news. He would not have a reputation. He wouldn't show his face. Show me a list of facts taht have been debunked and give me the evidence. Farenhype is just a propaganda piece from the right.
You don't know who did it, but you're sure their righwingers and sure they are out there. Hmmm. Go in for conspiracty theories much?
ii) Having never watched the movie Farenhype 9/11 how can you POSSIBLY declare it did not refute MM's Farenheit 9/11? Giving you a list of facts would be giving you the script. Won't fit w/in 500 characters. How 'bout watching the movie?
Propaganda from the right? YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT! How would you know?
You can give me a link. Do you know what that is? I bet you didn't even look at the links i gave you. That would be like a Christian seeing proof that their religion is bullshit.
I don't go in for conspiracy theories. But as we know the right has been insuccessful in debunking and discrediting Moore. So what way better to reach a wide influencial audience (Yes teens and kids and other people be it adults etc).
I have seen the facts AND the backup for Moores film. I have also research FH9/11.
No link. Watch the movie (hard to believe I have to keep writing that). You can spare 80mins from your oh-so-busy life to learn something.
I saw MM's film. Saw refutation of it. Don't need site from MM. YOU have seen MM's "facts" and "backup" for his own film. Not independent review of same. Use your head when researching.
You believe Farenhype 9/11 at face value. no Factual back up. It's no different than watching Communist or Nazi propaganda and believing it. You see it. it agrees with what you want to believe, so you don't take anything into consideration. Whether it is right or wrong.
Farenhype has not debunked anything. If it had, Michael Moore wouldn't have dared to make another film.
Good come back. What are you, about seven years old?
Declaring something you have not seen as "just a propaganda piece from the right" and declaring the film not to have debunked anything is, well, how can I say this? Oh yeah, it's ignorant. I'll make it more germane to you: that's like saying you don't like Canadian bacon -- but you've never tried it.
Same answer as before: "because there is an audience for his movies."
Again, you are demonstrating lack of economic knowledge mentioned before. If there is demand for a product, the product will sell when provided. There is demand from a segment of the population for MM movies. Therefore, when the MM movie comes out; they see it. These people do not vet movie's "facts'/claims, just enjoy having own political biases reinforced/stroked. Or, are too stupid to realize that the movie has lies in it.
Already went to those links a loooong time ago, back when all the farenheit hype began.
But let's see if you bother to go the links I posted, eh? And I'll have to agree with Dave (whom I have seen here for the 1st time) about the juvenile jab.
Or shall I quote Socrates? -- "When the argument is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."
I'm doing fine with my argument. Don't need help, but like watching your inability to debate PkofPk also.
Like I said, don't need to go to the links, did my own research, and unlike you, I've actually seen both movies! Hey, how revolutionary: see something before commenting on it. You should try that. I hear it is catching on with a whole lot of people.
Second: Don't need to go to the links? Then why should I feel the need to watch Fahrenhype 9/11? I've done my research and I have seen the factual backup for Moore's films, I still plan on seeing it. Your arrogance astounds me.
Thirdly: Clever, see both before commenting on it. Very clever, but how about you research both using unbiased ACTUAL FACTS instead of just Fahrenhype 9/11.
Your argument (That I don't know enough.) is being reversed upon you.
Not trying to debate? Good. Mission accomplished. If you were trying, you are failing miserably.
I don't need to go to the links because I have seen both movies, and read articles from other sources. (Remember, this is years old). I already did my research.
How 'bout you see Farenhype before discrediting it? And did research unbiased facts. Who said I didn't?
My argument: very strong. Yours? Not so much. You are still bashing FHype and ACarol (You've seen neither). Who has poor research?
iii) How would he destroy America unintentionally? I mean, i know you conservatives like having good lives even though it means other people have shitty lives, but your arrogance is astounding.
iv) Many agree with Hitler.
It's what the people who hate Moore want to see. And those who are politically apathetic to Moore's films will be then pushed towards the right wing view. The people who know Moore but dislike documentaries will see this BS.
iii) If all he says in his movies/speeches etc were to come to be, it would ruin the U.S. Uni healthcare alone would wreck the economy and healthcare at same time! The life I have (good or bad -- you don't really know) is what I have made of it and myself. Pretty much true for everyone, including those complaining about their lot in life. Arrogance? What evidence?
iv) Good one. Only took you 1 day to pull out the liberal reflexive Nazi reference. Great restraint.
iii)Uni/NOT FOR PROFIT healthcare would not ruin the economy. The economies of France, Canada and Norway are all very well off, and the people can actually receive treatment.
Arrogance: You say you know that Frenhype is true. Even I didn't believe Moore's film completely til I saw some factual backup which his site provides excellently. Where can I find farenhypes factual backup?
iv) First off, I am a democratic socialist, not a liberal. It was a legit response.
iii) It is clear you know very little about economies and uni healthcare. Requires huge taxes to pay for it; limits healthcare service (ie very slow); requires many young paying in for the old. All countries you listed are not reproducing at sustainable rate.
As stated: whole movie is factual back up. Even interviews same people MM did, and they talk about how he distorted what they said. Watch the movie.
iv) You're on the same side of the spectrum. It was very lame response (and lazy).
iii) The taxes aren't that great, and when you put it in overall you pay less than you would for your healthcare now via insurance companies, especially with a big nation such as yours. How is my nation not producing at a sustainable rate? Where's your evidence of this?
I will watch the movie after I research it more. I don't want to waste 80 minutes of my life.
iv) Well I'll pull another Hitler reference. You are on the same side of the spectrum as Hitler. I don't think your a Nazi.
The replacement fertility rates (i.e. that needed to maintain pop at current level) is 2.1 babies per woman. Canada's (your country) is at 1.7. Now, you do import many immigrants (many from middle east, so have fun w/that), but you won't be "Canada" after awhile, at least not culturally. Technically, your country is going out of business.
Are you aware that Canada isn't a country based on assimilation? Canada has MULTICULTURALISM; meaning that all the different cultures make the great Canada we live in today. From Mexican, to french, to Jewish, to African, to Swedish to Middle Easterner. The population of Canada has grown since the 90's by almost 10 000 000!!!!
Now, you do import many immigrants (many from middle east, so have fun w/that) Do i detect some subtle racist hints in there?
Multicultural is code for mini-balkanization. Check how well the "assimilation" is going. Not well in Canada, and not well anywhere else where the culture coming in is antithetical to the host's or immigrants have no interest in assimilating.
Your pop growth figure does not dispute what I said. Read again slower if necessary.
No "racist hint", but if you want a glimpse of Canada of future look at how well muslims are assimilating right now. Their not.
Don't forget that a large part of Canada's budget is paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. Canada can afford to spend big on healthcare, bcse since WWII it hasn't had to pay its fair share for military and defense. Canada counts on U.S. to do that for them.
If uni healthcare was cheaper (not) and better (sooo not!) than health insure, there would be no debate in U.S. Suppose you're missing something in your argument? (facts maybe?)
Speaking of debating (you are so short on facts and fearful of same that it is laughable), how do you figure your comment re: trading partners (or ANY of comment) has relevance to my posting about taxes and health care and national defense? Please, oh Great Debater, explain that one.
You talked about how without the USA Canada would be nothing. You failed to mention that without us you'd be pretty god damned poor yourselves...it's like you post, forget and then post again.
Once again, Canada is doing fine economically. Remember, it's the US in a recession, not Canada =).
I responded with calling you out as a typical "I AM ALL POWERFUL AMERICA, ME PROTECT YOU!!" AntiCanadian
I responded also by asking you how have we not payed our fair share of military and defence costs?
NEVER said "without USA, Canada would be nothing." Find that quote, or even a paraphrase of it. To quote you: "PLEASE READ". Why, it's like you read and forget what was written .. and then post again.
Never said Canada was not doing fine economically, so no need for "once again". BTW, U.S. not in recession. Got your facts wrong, "once again".
Where have I demonstrated "AntiCanadian" bias? Example please.
I never said you said that. I said it is the attitude you put across.
USA not in recession?! Haha, wow. You pretty much just let me win the argument. You have just shown the ignorance you have of your own nation.
AntiCanadian bias: You implied that we are a weak nation that have not payed our ways. That we are only able to exist because of your protection. Also, answer the question: HOW HAVE WE NOT PAYED OUR WAYS IN THE SENSE OF MILITARY AND DEFENSE?(The question is a response to your claims.
Verbatim from your post: "You talked about how without the USA Canada would be nothing." So, you were saying you never said that, huh?
U.S. is not in a recession. You are ignorant of U.S. and economics. A recession is defined as 2 consecutive Qtrs of negative growth. The U.S. has not even had one such Qtr. You lose. Again.
You have enough trouble reading what is written without worrying about in "implied" statements. Stick to the basics. Re: defense re-read what I wrote. Nothing hidden there.
The US is in a recession. Maybe you didn't know this because you only watch FOX news from your parents basement.
What say you of the mortgage crisis? Of the decreasing American dollar? In November the American Dollar was worth 6 cents less than the Canadian dollar!
You may not meet the "definition" of a recession 100%, but it is no doubt that you are in one.
*****
And once again you refuse to answer my question: "HOW HAS CANADA NOT PAID IT'S FAIR SHARE IN MILITARY AND DEFENSE COSTS!!!??
So you are stipulating that you messed up (again) and did say what you denied saying after seeing your verbatim post re-typed?
Support claim I "only watch Fox News from my parents (sic) basement."
Mortgage crisis and devaluing (not "decreasing") U.S. dollar have nothing to do with a recession. Headline in YESTERDAY'S Chicago Tribune was about resurgence in U.S. dollar. You quote November? Try to keep up.
I must say. this debate has gone nowhere. No matter how much evidence I have provided, whether for this film being an easy right wing attack, or giving you Factual Backup for Moore's film, you ignore it. You haven't seen the Factual backup as you have confessed and you still call his films lies.
How do you explain a fan base not DECLINING after the Director/Creator of said Documentaries, has been, according to you, "debunked"?Please answer first
I will not go to the links you provided bcse I read MM's defense of his film years ago when he released it and when FHype came out. Don't need to re-read (as you seem to have to). I have, as opposed to you, seen FHeit and FHype. So, seems you are the one lacking in research. My research concludes MM lied thru out FHeit. Your research is incomplete.
Are you stipulating, and support claim as asked above. Please answer first.
Okay. I'll do you a favour. I will watch Fahrenhype just to shut you up about my research. HOWEVER. Please respond to my questions. As well as Provide TWO, only TWO (2) lies from Fahrenheit 9/11. And those two lies (whether they came from Fahrenhype or your own research) I don't care. I will prove they are not lies.
You are making a mistake if you watch FHype and think you are doing me a favor. You are doing yourself a favor. Once you watch that, then come back to me. You will have plenty of MM lies to try and disprove. I don't need to provide you anything if you watch that movie.
Now, that says that you actually can't find any "lies" in Fahrenheit 9/11.
If you can give me one I will take what your saying with more credibility
Remember: If you actually give me a "lie" from Fahrenheit 9/11, I can't prove that it is true, can I? Therefore you would gain the higher ground in the debate.
PS: Don't give me his opinion, give me something BIG and SOLID that is supposed to be a fact but is a "lie" in Fahrenheit 9/11.
You know, if you had taken all the time you have spent on this site and watched the movie, you could have already seen the 80 minute movie! Watch the movie and you'll get all the MM lies you could handle.
Watch the film and all your questions will be answered. Do your own research. Improve your credibility by seeing the film you claim is full of lies -- then you'll actually know if you're right. Weekend's coming up. Use 80 minutes of the weekend to learn something.
I don't know anything? Really? Let's recap the things I know that you don't, as established in these exchanges: How the film industry works. The defn of "recession" The state of U.S. economy U.S. system of gov't What it is like to watch a film BEFORE commenting on it U.N. fertility and population stats Simple math Grammar The importance of national security, and the need to properly fund same I'm sure I am missing some, but you've made so many gaffes, it is hard to keep track.
I know the system of government in the United States.
Iknow how the film industry works.
I know the "defn" of recession.
I Know the state of the US economy (recession).
UN Fertility and pop stats.
Simple math, advanced math, and how not to be a douchebag.
I know what grammar is, but unlike you, i am not a word nazi. If I was writing for an article or for school I wouldn't shortin things or make grammatical errors.
There is an imp. for NS. But it isn't as great as you seem to think.
I'm not going to continue to debate you on those topics. Maybe I don't know enough about them. So i shall hold my tongue, or fingers in this case lol, on them.
Which statements are "indecipherable" due to grammar?
You = Child.
As i said before the debate is about "An American Carol", the right, and Michael Moore. Inc. Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11.
I will gladly continue to debate on those issues. I also debate on the military if you wish.
Childish hostility? No hostility. Not childish. Very forthright, succinct and accurate. Face it, you finally had to admit you were out of your depth, and that you lost the debate (and after stating how much you knew about all those topics too. Hmmm.)
I'll debate you about Fhype -- after you watch it.
I'll debate you about American Carol -- after it is released and we both see it.
Childish Hostility: To paraphrase it as you have paraphrased my "i do not care if I am right or wrong statement". "YOU ARE WRONG NA NA NA NA NA. YOU ARE AN IDIOT, YOU ARE AN IDIOT *raspberry*".
I am going to watch fahrenhype 9/11 after i watch Fahrenheit again so I can be at the highest of my knowledge of the film.
American Carol: It is a right wing attack - the Cast are almost completely outspoken Republicans and David Zucker is known to be a conservative.
You read into it what you wanted to read into it. (That's a recurring problem for you.) You wrote that you knew about a list of topics. I pointed out how you demonstrated you did not know about those topics based upon your posts here. Then you accused me of showing "childish hostility". The facts are the facts, and your incessant need to read hidden messages into forthright statements is what is causing the problem. That, and you hate to admit you're wrong.
I'm not going to continue to debate you on those topics. Maybe I don't know enough about them. So i shall hold my tongue, or fingers in this case lol, on them.
Which statements are "indecipherable" due to grammar?
You = Child.
As i said before the debate is about "An American Carol", the right, and Michael Moore. Inc. Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11.
I will gladly continue to debate on those issues. I also debate on the military if you wish.
The one where I proved that you did say that Canada hasn't payed its fair share for miltary and defense. I have asked at least 4 times how we did not. You have responded once with:
paraphrase "I never said that Canada didn't pay it's fair share of military and defense costs".
But as you can see you did.
The Quote:
"Canada can afford to spend big on healthcare, bcse since WWII it hasn't had to pay its fair share for military and defense."
So now you want me to explain human nature? Hey, different things appeal to different people. Some people like his movies and like his lefty slant regardless of how false it is. Same in politics.
The bigger question is how do the French still like Jerry Lewis movies? MM has the political angle, but Lewis?
True, different things appeal to different people. But if this is your response to my "Why Moore hasn't lost his fanbase" it is pitiful.
And i'm not going to go further in depth because I can't. You just believe that a fan base no matter what will stay with the person, I don't believe that.
Oh, good one. That's an adaptation of "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"
What are you, nine years old?
We've already established you know nothing of the film business, nothing of economic terms, nothing of the U.S. economy, nothing of the U.S. political system . . . but you are holding yourself out as an expert on human nature? Please.
Do not position yourself as so all-knowing ("No matter how little I know about you human's (sic) I will always know more than you.") if you don't want to be mistaken as being a self-proclaimed expert.
YOU have never established anything. I have established plenty (including the list published above). If by "arrogant" you mean "knowledgeable" -- even "more knowledgeable than Propagandhi900" then yes, I guess I'm guilty as charged. But "tool"?
Ahh, another assumption gone awry. What possesses you to call me a neocon? (Especially within the context of a discussion about you mistakenly positioning yourself as a quasi-expert on -- well, apparently everything)
Explain how I am arrogant. You just threw that out there with no evidence/backup (you know, like you do with all your posts). Love to hear it. FYI: it ain't bragging if it's true.
"It ain't bragging if it's true"? You complain about grammar and use "ain't"? Well....yes it is bragging...
Bragging/Boasting - to speak of with excessive pride or vanity: 'He boasted of his family wealth'.
You are arrogant because you perceive Fahrenhype 9/11 to be true at face value. You are arrogant because you refuse to see the factual back-up for Fahrenheit 9/11. This makes you arrogant because you are portraying yourself as "know-all; None know better".
The phrase is a well known saying, akin to a homily. That you may not be familiar with it does not mean it isn't. Also, when quoting, it is best to use the actual words in the quote. In this case, "ain't" is part of the saying. So, use was appropriate.
I am arrogant bcse I believe a movie on face value/refuse to see factual back-up for the other movie? As stated many times before: I have seen both movies (you still haven't) and seen MM's counter argument to FHype. Both your claims are wrong.
Also. Saying our population growth is not sustainable isn't a good argument, BECAUSE our fertility rate is at about 1.6-1.8. Americas is about 1.9-2.15. That isn't much higher. You also have to realize that you do have a higher population, about 10 times bigger. Henceforth you should have a higher fertility rate.
W/ a growing population via immigration it is bound to increase.
I was wrong. Just when I thought you might has stopped writing about things you don't understand, here you are again.
Per U.N. stats: Canada at 1.48; U.S. at 2.11. Sustanability # is 2.1. I know you don't like definitions, but fertility rate is the number of live babies born per woman. So, math-boy, you can see that the size of the population does not matter.
Immigration is how Canada is replacing its dwindling pop. Where are they from and what do they believe, and will they assimilate?
Cannot believe this came from Zucker. This is easily his worst movie.
GrassValleyGreg 11 months ago
I am a moderate, both sides hate me so what, I hate ideologues. Trouble is that the movie really was sort of lame, it had a few good scenes like at the college with the song and dance number of old profs. But most of it was about how great war and guns are. I
jakefree25 1 year ago
wtf , this i SHIT, michael moor , making fin of michael moor ?? U FUCKING IDIOTS !!!!
LUKAvac2 2 years ago
Hey, Suck-Like-A-Vac: Don't worry your goddamn noodleheaded ass about that fat fucked-up faggot Mikey Moore, and get back to helping yer mommy scrub the shit stains outa yer Spiderman shorts, oyster-face. Now MOVE! Case closed.
hansboofer 2 years ago
What so intellectual, well they say the right is famous for the facts and logic, not a bunch of haters
jakefree25 1 year ago
The movie was hysterical...as all Zucker flicks are.
CircusMaximus09 2 years ago
This movie wasn't as funny as I thought it would be.
doublejax 2 years ago
A great movie that is not only funny but also has many great politcal points I would watch a liberial movie but liberials never make funny movies unless it is an accedent
IloveOReilley 2 years ago 2
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Propaganda movie explaining that all Muslims are terrorists and anyone who criticizes the U.S. hates America. Do all Christians take their congregations into the jungle and feed them cyanide laced Kool-Ade? That hypothesis makes as much sense as the reasoning behind this movie.
All in all this movie was a total waste of time. Both mine, and the people involved in making it. Political satire is a powerful tool, but this did not come close.
JimmyKudo123 2 years ago
An American Carol este, după mine, o încercare penibilă de a-l denigra pe Michael Moore. Chiar dacă lucrurile nu sunt prezentate clar în felul acesta, cei care au văzut macar un film al regizorului american știu despre ce e vorba. Până și numele regizorulii din film este Michael Malone, similar cu Moore. Primele 10 minute sunt parcă din alt film, o comedie chiar foarte bună, ca puțin mai târziu să fiu complet dezamăgit de penibilitatea filmului.
avalanchexy 3 years ago
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Once again. This movie = epic fail. Even more of a fail than Nancy Pelosi rick rolling people.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
This movie is now on DVD! GO OUT AND BUY IT!!!
drummer703 3 years ago 3
I'd rather buy a 1 dollar bill with my 15 dollars than buy the dvd of this shitty epic fail "movie".
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
your loss
drummer703 3 years ago
My loss would be buying it. I'd get five minutes in and shoot myself.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
That wouldn't be a loss. HAHA!
Besides, you wouldn't do that, you liberals don't own guns. LOL!
drummer703 3 years ago 3
I'm very liberal....more so than Michael Moore...I own a .308 rifle.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
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good. Use it wisely
drummer703 3 years ago
because you're a ............... whats that word? Oh yeah, HYPOCRITE
MostlyPoliticalStuff 3 years ago 2
How am I a hypocrite?
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
1/3rd the movie screens. 1/7th the budget. Religulous is s t i l l beating American Carol. Man, that must just be awkward for you wingnuts.
reasonablymad26 3 years ago
I know...I just enjoy slapping you.
silverdumper 3 years ago
This movie = EPIC FAIL.
Poor repubicans can't make a funny.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
AN AMERICAN CAROL = EPIC FAIL!
THIS MOVIE BOMBED at the box office! It came in 9th in it's OPENING WEEKEND! What a crap sandwich! LOL! It will be in the 99 Cent bin by next weekend... sorry ass neoCONS!
NoMagoo08 3 years ago
The film had a per screen average of $2,325.
"Religulous", by comparison had a per screen average of $6,972.
Oh yea, not to mention this piece of shit opened in 1,639 theaters. And "Religulous" only opened in about 500 theaters.
What does that tell you?
Conservatives can't do comedy.
JRodB 3 years ago
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News Flash--"American Carol" BEAT "Religulous" at the box office, with a gross of $3,656,000 as compared to $3,409,643 for "Religulous". Don't criticize a movie because it tells the truth.
selpac2 3 years ago
....
I'll repeat this again for you, since you've seemed to overlook it
NEWS FLASH-- "Carol" opened in 1,639...while Religulous only opened in about 500. "Carol" averaged about $2,325 per theater.
"Religulous", by comparison had a per screen average of $6,972.
That's a pathetic showing by "Carol," and a strong showing for ""Religulous." For a movie to be shown 1/3 as much as another, and for that movie to almost tie in revenue, is sad.
JRodB 3 years ago
That doesn't change the fact that Carol still made more than Religulous now does it? Opening in 1/3 less theaters is a poor excuse for failing to match or beat Carol if indeed Religulous was the insightful film you claim it to be. Now go ahead and give me the typical liberal response that consists of name calling and curse words without any substance to back it up.
selpac2 3 years ago
JRodB 3 years ago
When I saw it at some mega mall theater, I was the only one in the room.
jakefree25 1 year ago
That means, that had "Religulous" opened in the same amount of theaters. It would have made near $10 million compared to this movies $3 million.
Now, go ahead and give me some shitty response that makes no sense and ignores simple math.
JRodB 3 years ago
Why would any theater want to book a movie as pointless and ignorant as "Religulous"?
selpac2 3 years ago
Oh yea, guess what?
As of 10/20/08:
Religulous
Gross revenue -$7,622,104
An American Carol
Gross revenue - $5,971,000
=)
JRodB 3 years ago
doubt uve seen it
silverdumper 3 years ago
The thing is that this film can make fun of Michael Moore all they want, but the truth is that Michael Moore is talented. I just wished he could have slapped Bil O'Reilly right back...
PsychoPunk1965 3 years ago
Your correct! Michael Moore is very talented at twisting the facts and presenting a "documentary" that is 99.9% BS!! I saw the movie Friday and it is well worth the price of admission. I can't believe Hollywood would put out a movie with some truth in it.
selpac2 3 years ago
Yep, talented at twisting the "facts" into his insane version of reality. Look at all the books, movies, and web sites that cropped up just to correct the record of lies that Michael Moore spews in his films. If he was a truthful and fair documentarian, this would not be necessary.
Nerfball6 3 years ago
Don't let Michael Moron bother you. How many morbidly obese people live to celebrate their 60th birthday?
kentamitchell 3 years ago
Saw this today, it is really worth it.
OOhU2A 3 years ago
i can't get over how offended lefty's getting over this movie. funny as hell. like the past 9000 movies haven't been targeted at us.
terongorefiend15 3 years ago
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I saw rough cut of this movie at a screening
in July. It was hysterical. I mean, tears rolling down the face, belly achingly funny.
And I'm a Democrat. I must admit these days
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that, especially when reading the inane comments by other Democrats. Zucker is going to read all of your reactions to a movie you haven't even seen yet and use it as fodder for his next parody of Liberals.
You Liberals make me want to vote Republican. I'll just vote AGAINST socialism.
TallulahBear 3 years ago 2
i admit that michael moore is very irritating and in fact wrong about a lot of the information in his movies, but this is just a stupid, immature way to address it. bill o'reilly is an idiot, and FOX news is anything but "fair and balanced"
boppN 3 years ago
Billdo needs a movie like this about a pompous phony cultural warrior who spends half his show whining about his critics
jakefree25 1 year ago
Opens Oct. 3rd! Let's all give it a huge box office open. Cannot wait to see this hilarious spoof on idiot liberals. It's about time a major Hollywood filmmaker and CONSERVATIVE actors who've come out of the closet put out a film like this. We could all use a good laugh and what's funnier than making fun of ridiculous liberals???
aprillh 3 years ago
me and my dad are going to see this movie together...he loves o'reily
eskimogirl3000 3 years ago
im so gonna see this :)
levibg93 3 years ago
All you conservatives who want to see this...well you lack taste.
This is a tasteless, terrible, and unoriginal attempt to attack Michael Moore.
David Zucker's originality went out the door after his second naked gun movie.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Michael Moore does a fair amount to embarrass himself, he doesn't need the help of an unfunny movie.
This movie looks horrible, the jokes all seem to stem from seething hatred of their political opponents/ideological counterparts/gay rights/black people and muslims. I got that all from just watching the trailer, imagine how bad the actual movie is going to be.
bluezinc 3 years ago
We agree that it is both going to be horrible and unfunny.
The only thing I disagree with you on is Moore embarrassing himself.
I really don't see how this movie can be funny to anyone. Conservative or liberal. The movie just seems terrible and unoriginal.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
what cool-aid have you been drinking? haha
Sin2022 3 years ago
Reality has a strong liberal bias.
bluezinc 3 years ago 3
Hah ha, he's standing in front of the Che Guevara hospital! This movie has to be seen by everybody: the more understanding you are, the more of a kick you'll get.
Oh, and this guy (Zucker) was a former liberal. Fear not the change of heart, because the cold stone is that which stands the most resistant to it.
uuLeague 3 years ago
"this guy (Zucker) was a former liberal."
So was George Orwell...
It's why his satires of Socialism are so biting.
tcrlaf 3 years ago
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, AGAINST totalitarianism and FOR democratic socialism, as I understand it,"
-George Orwell.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago 2
Orwell was also a proponent of a federal socialist Europe, a position outlined in his 1947 essay 'Toward European Unity', which first appeared in Partisan Review.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Propagandhi900, make one comment and make it stick. Three in a row just gets fucking annoying. Now shut the fuck up you Eric-Blair-loving bastard.
If people want to go see the movie, that is their prerogative you son-of-a-bitch. Now run along now--I think I hear your old man callin' you...time to earn your weekly allowance sucking on daddy's cock.
elpidi79 3 years ago
"If people want to go see the movie, that is their prerogative you son-of-a-bitch. Now run along now--I think I hear your old man callin' you...time to earn your weekly allowance sucking on daddy's cock."
Air your dirty laundry to a shrink.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
'Mikal Moare'? Talkin' Demmycrat, are we? Can someone please stick a rocket in his ass and send him to the moon? Oh wait, he'd probably enjoy that.
tacobags 3 years ago
HaHa, bout time that fat terd gets what he deserves. Anything that ticks off libs is worth wathching :)
HippiesSuck76 3 years ago
i think most of the people that rip on moore don't bother to watch his movies. i love his movies and this looks funny to me....and it's from the maker of 'the naked gun', how can you go wrong?
KCVROCKS2008 3 years ago
Oh Propagandhi, I'm so glad you had time away from your government-sponsored trailer and your food stamps to call us names. Go ahead and father 7 more kids so you can get more welfare money to compensate for your sub 3rd grade "edjumakasion"
gmanisstillhere 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's retarded the amount of right wing bastards are commenting on this sad piece of trash.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
OMG but mikel moare is like god and stuff! omg this is soooo mean :( :p :( booo sad!!!!1!
epictrollin 3 years ago
Looks like a good movie to me bout time us conservatives get a movie making fun of the liberal left hahaha
craggy1982 3 years ago 11
Because you stupid f#$%$ need to recoup your wounds of shame from 8 years of your backwardness!!!!
Just Play'n
Go Pallin!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets teach dem liberals that da world is 6,000 years old!
Wow!, baby Trig has his daddys and sisters good looks, must be the product of Northern Exposure Imbreddn!
Proud Conservative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McCain Pallin 08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sketchyinc 3 years ago
lol this is gonna be good
:D
DarthVyson 3 years ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this looks stupid
micheal moore is an amazing director
why are they making fun of him
MissHG23456789 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
agreed.
he is amazing, i never thought about him being a 'good director', but a GOOD PERSON. He tells the truth all the time.
fuck the insurance-companies, fuck Bush for being palls with the BinLadens, and fuck the Republicans for standing by that shit.
in the end, conservatives are D U M B, and Democrats are always the SMARTEST & most generous.
OsamaBinPoopHead 3 years ago
really you better do your research democrats are generous with other people money not their own mony. when it comes to personal donations republicans outgive the democrats. And Bush who is a RINO has given more federal money to fight aids and other humantarian aid than any other president in history
craggy1982 3 years ago 4
I can't wait to see this highly successful. humourous, witty, original piece of art!
makea4tune 3 years ago
This movie will not be successful. Only idiots will go to see this humourless, witless, unoriginal piece of trash.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
republicans for sure. their idiots. they dont like that he talks about how insurance-companies make people go poor so their CEOs have big houses, and how Moore told us all Bush was friends with the BinLadens.
Their lucky he hasn't done a film on how 911 was planned -or atleast ALLOWED- by 'someone' here.
OsamaBinPoopHead 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yeah.
9/11 was planned by Bin Laden, not the Bush Admin, but I admit that they didn't act on the information they were given and then they took full advantage of the situation.
IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY!
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
This trailer is multiplying and spreading like a wildfire. If anyone gets an intense pain in the Jaw line from viewing this trailer, that is one sign of of a 'coronary' event. The cholesterol buildup and blood clots in the arteries of the heart, which tend to buildup with long hours at the computer, tend to break away with stress. Not only is the left arm affected. Call a lawyer at first sign of intense pain and have this trailer taken down. This is a public service announcement. 911
Blogengezer 3 years ago
You both need to shut the fuck up. It's a movie. Who cares?
Penguinsact 3 years ago 2
"AN AMERICAN CAROL"... Coming to a .99 cent bin near you!
NoMagoo08 3 years ago
Even if it wasn't an attack on Moore, it is still going to be a terrible movie.
Even the conservatives who read this should know that Zucker started going downhill after the first Scary Movie. He's ran on the same concept for movies since Naked Gun.
The wit is just absent, the attack is clear, the humour is lacking.
They are portraying Moore as wanting to destroy July 4th and America, when this isn't even within the range of satirical examination.
Overall: This movie will be a failure.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
On the Actor side of things we see this:
An overwhelmingly outspoken Republican cast, including Gary Coleman who ran for Governor of California as a Republican.
The cast are not only past their prime but are seemingly desperate for attention, and quite frankly a job.
The cast just isn't going to cut it. They, along with the absent wit and humour, will make this movie a lot worse than it would have been with a better cast.
David Zucker also a conservative. (Conservatives aren't that funny).
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Wow. You have alot to say about a movie that you have not seen. Hasn't even been screened for critics yet, so they have not spoken about it (intelligently).
I will make no such prediction about the success of the movie yet. But since you are Mr. ESP, which numbers should I play in the lottery this weekend?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
The Diversity at Work Glossary, recognizes multiculturalism as part of "a policy introduced by the federal government in 1971, which acknowledges that many ethnic Canadians experience unequal access to resources and opportunities. It urges more recognition of the contributions of such Canadians, the preservation of certain expressions of their ethnicity, and more equity in the treatment of all Canadians.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Past their prime?? some of them maybe but others arent
craggy1982 3 years ago
It is about time they got a good movie that an American can enjoy out of Hollywood. I am sure the actors will all be black listed from making anymore movies. When will the left be out protesting?
sheenco39 3 years ago 2
I´d love to see Kevin Sorbo...
maralugian 3 years ago
Finally, the governments propaganda response to Michael Moore's films.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Prop:
Of course you have tons of proof to support this claim, such as:
1. Who is the gov't official in charge of this?
2. How the money funnelled from gov't to Zucker et al.
3. Why the current admin gives a hoot about MM -- especially at this point in admin's term.
We will all sit back and await your evidence to support your claim -- or wait for you to rescind your claim.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
This is the right wings attempt(not the gov) to reach a wide audience (using comedy; not a lot of people would go see a documentary since it would need facts which the Right can't find), and discredit Michael Moore.
We can look at some key elements they are saying:
i) Moore is unpatriotic.
ii) Moore is using exaggerations, not fact.
iii) Moore wants to destroy America
iv) Moore is an idiot.
This is what the right wants people to see.
FFS Bill O'Reilly is in the movie!!!!!!
Propagandhi900 3 years ago 2
You are correct. i should not have said government.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Oh, so it's not the government, it is the right wing. Got it. Who in the right wing is in charge of this concerted effort? Where does their money come from?
i) Moore is unpatriotic
ii) Moore uses exaggerations AND lies (watch Faren-hype 9-11; a documentary that was full of "right wing" facts.)
iii) Not intentionally, but same result
iv) Many agree.
If it does well, it is also what the people want to see.
O'Reilly in a cameo? Good casting for the role: he plays HIMSELF!
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Part 1:
In this case the movies producers and so forth. The money comes form the studios who are against Moore.
i) How is Moore unpatriotic? You conservatives never seem to come up with an adequate answer. He tries time again to improve your country and your lives. (PS Patriotic means believing in ur country, not ur gov.)
ii) You believe Faren-Hype 9/11 just because it is against Moore. You have no evidence. Moore however has given a fact list on his website with SOURCES in tact. Go there.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
"Movie producers and so forth" are against Moore? That must be why he has produced movies thru them, distributed movies thru them, and nominated for Oscar by them. Please give me those kinds of enemies. I'll be rich!
i) He attacks the gov't w/out evidence (9/11), and dengrates the country with falsehoods. I don't want him "improving" my country. His improvements (uni healthcare) will cause too much damage.
ii) I believe FH9-11 bcse it is supported w/evidence. You don't bcse it is against MM.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
When did I say that all were against Moore? I'm saying that through right leaning production companies and writers have given a response to Moore's documentaries. This response isn't to appeal to the intellectual American via Documentary, but through comedy, which will reach a much wider audience. An Audience which know Moore only through commercials.
i)w w w (dott) michaelmoore (dott) com / warroom / f911notes
ii) show me the evidence of the fact in Farenhype.
I dislike it cause it's false.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
OK, so you don't believe "all" the "movie producers and so forth" are against MM. Which ones do you think would be? Keep in mind that their primary goal is to make money, and turning out a product that won't do that is career limitting.
As the movie has not opened yet, I don't know how you can say that the movie will not appeal to intellectual American. Seen a sneak preview, have you?
ii) Watch Farenhype. Whole thing is refutation via interview and fact.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
I don't know which ones. It's just that the right needed a response to Moore and they made one that people who wouldn't watch a documentary would enjoy.
ii) Farenhype 9/11 has NOT successfully debunked any of Moore's facts. If it has then he would have been all over the news. He would not have a reputation. He wouldn't show his face. Show me a list of facts taht have been debunked and give me the evidence. Farenhype is just a propaganda piece from the right.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
You don't know who did it, but you're sure their righwingers and sure they are out there. Hmmm. Go in for conspiracty theories much?
ii) Having never watched the movie Farenhype 9/11 how can you POSSIBLY declare it did not refute MM's Farenheit 9/11? Giving you a list of facts would be giving you the script. Won't fit w/in 500 characters. How 'bout watching the movie?
Propaganda from the right? YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT! How would you know?
You define ignorant.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
You can give me a link. Do you know what that is? I bet you didn't even look at the links i gave you. That would be like a Christian seeing proof that their religion is bullshit.
I don't go in for conspiracy theories. But as we know the right has been insuccessful in debunking and discrediting Moore. So what way better to reach a wide influencial audience (Yes teens and kids and other people be it adults etc).
I have seen the facts AND the backup for Moores film. I have also research FH9/11.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
No link. Watch the movie (hard to believe I have to keep writing that). You can spare 80mins from your oh-so-busy life to learn something.
I saw MM's film. Saw refutation of it. Don't need site from MM. YOU have seen MM's "facts" and "backup" for his own film. Not independent review of same. Use your head when researching.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
You believe Farenhype 9/11 at face value. no Factual back up. It's no different than watching Communist or Nazi propaganda and believing it. You see it. it agrees with what you want to believe, so you don't take anything into consideration. Whether it is right or wrong.
Farenhype has not debunked anything. If it had, Michael Moore wouldn't have dared to make another film.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
I define ignorant? If I was ignorant I'd be agreeing with you.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Good come back. What are you, about seven years old?
Declaring something you have not seen as "just a propaganda piece from the right" and declaring the film not to have debunked anything is, well, how can I say this? Oh yeah, it's ignorant. I'll make it more germane to you: that's like saying you don't like Canadian bacon -- but you've never tried it.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Ahem. How do you explain that Moore, after being "debunked and shown a liar" could make another film with such success. (ref: SiCO.)
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
First, you ignore the comment I made. Then you introduce a disconnect line of thought. Interesting debate style.
Q: How could subsequent movie be successful?
A: There's an audience for his movies.
BTW, how successful? How much money did it make? How many people saw it? Or was it just "critically acclaimed"?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
There's an audience for his movies? Yes, But it grossed more than Bowling for Columbine which came BEFORE Fahrenheit 9/11.
How would the audience stay at the same level after he was "proven" a "liar".? Riddle me that.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Same answer as before: "because there is an audience for his movies."
Again, you are demonstrating lack of economic knowledge mentioned before. If there is demand for a product, the product will sell when provided. There is demand from a segment of the population for MM movies. Therefore, when the MM movie comes out; they see it. These people do not vet movie's "facts'/claims, just enjoy having own political biases reinforced/stroked. Or, are too stupid to realize that the movie has lies in it.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
OK, here's a list:
davekopel (dot) com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911 (dot)htm
Here's another:
spinsanity (dot) org/columns/20040702 (dot) html
PkofPk 3 years ago
Jesus, did Dave go and get his mother to go help him with this argument. In that case i'll get my own people.
overcast(dot)pwp(dot)blueyonder(dot)co(dot)uk/f911/hitch-moore(dot)htm
michaelmoore(dot)com/warroom/f911notes/
Maybe you'll actually go to the links unlike Dave.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Already went to those links a loooong time ago, back when all the farenheit hype began.
But let's see if you bother to go the links I posted, eh? And I'll have to agree with Dave (whom I have seen here for the 1st time) about the juvenile jab.
Or shall I quote Socrates? -- "When the argument is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."
PkofPk 3 years ago
Shall i quote your mother "Yes give me more, don't stop.".
In all seriousness I will check out the links. But if you have checked out the links i've given you....then you have nothing/
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Argumentum ad naseum.
PkofPk 3 years ago
En l'anglais si vous plait.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
I'm doing fine with my argument. Don't need help, but like watching your inability to debate PkofPk also.
Like I said, don't need to go to the links, did my own research, and unlike you, I've actually seen both movies! Hey, how revolutionary: see something before commenting on it. You should try that. I hear it is catching on with a whole lot of people.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
First: I'm not trying to debate PkofPk.
Second: Don't need to go to the links? Then why should I feel the need to watch Fahrenhype 9/11? I've done my research and I have seen the factual backup for Moore's films, I still plan on seeing it. Your arrogance astounds me.
Thirdly: Clever, see both before commenting on it. Very clever, but how about you research both using unbiased ACTUAL FACTS instead of just Fahrenhype 9/11.
Your argument (That I don't know enough.) is being reversed upon you.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Not trying to debate? Good. Mission accomplished. If you were trying, you are failing miserably.
I don't need to go to the links because I have seen both movies, and read articles from other sources. (Remember, this is years old). I already did my research.
How 'bout you see Farenhype before discrediting it? And did research unbiased facts. Who said I didn't?
My argument: very strong. Yours? Not so much. You are still bashing FHype and ACarol (You've seen neither). Who has poor research?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
You still haven't responded to the fact that most of the Cast for "An American Carol" are right wingers.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
They weren't casting idiots in this one.
rjricci 3 years ago
Nope, they cast the mentally challenged.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
So what? Who'd you expect to see? Barbara Streisand? Tim Robbins? What's your point?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
w w w (dot) overcast (dot) pwp (dot) blueyonder (dot) co (dot) uk / f911 / hitch-moore (dot) htm
Here we have a response to Christopher Hitchen's novel on Farenheit 9/11.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Part 2:
iii) How would he destroy America unintentionally? I mean, i know you conservatives like having good lives even though it means other people have shitty lives, but your arrogance is astounding.
iv) Many agree with Hitler.
It's what the people who hate Moore want to see. And those who are politically apathetic to Moore's films will be then pushed towards the right wing view. The people who know Moore but dislike documentaries will see this BS.
Iknowitsacameo,but BillO isa RIGHTWINGER
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
iii) If all he says in his movies/speeches etc were to come to be, it would ruin the U.S. Uni healthcare alone would wreck the economy and healthcare at same time! The life I have (good or bad -- you don't really know) is what I have made of it and myself. Pretty much true for everyone, including those complaining about their lot in life. Arrogance? What evidence?
iv) Good one. Only took you 1 day to pull out the liberal reflexive Nazi reference. Great restraint.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
iii)Uni/NOT FOR PROFIT healthcare would not ruin the economy. The economies of France, Canada and Norway are all very well off, and the people can actually receive treatment.
Arrogance: You say you know that Frenhype is true. Even I didn't believe Moore's film completely til I saw some factual backup which his site provides excellently. Where can I find farenhypes factual backup?
iv) First off, I am a democratic socialist, not a liberal. It was a legit response.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
iii) It is clear you know very little about economies and uni healthcare. Requires huge taxes to pay for it; limits healthcare service (ie very slow); requires many young paying in for the old. All countries you listed are not reproducing at sustainable rate.
As stated: whole movie is factual back up. Even interviews same people MM did, and they talk about how he distorted what they said. Watch the movie.
iv) You're on the same side of the spectrum. It was very lame response (and lazy).
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
iii) The taxes aren't that great, and when you put it in overall you pay less than you would for your healthcare now via insurance companies, especially with a big nation such as yours. How is my nation not producing at a sustainable rate? Where's your evidence of this?
I will watch the movie after I research it more. I don't want to waste 80 minutes of my life.
iv) Well I'll pull another Hitler reference. You are on the same side of the spectrum as Hitler. I don't think your a Nazi.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
The replacement fertility rates (i.e. that needed to maintain pop at current level) is 2.1 babies per woman. Canada's (your country) is at 1.7. Now, you do import many immigrants (many from middle east, so have fun w/that), but you won't be "Canada" after awhile, at least not culturally. Technically, your country is going out of business.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Are you aware that Canada isn't a country based on assimilation? Canada has MULTICULTURALISM; meaning that all the different cultures make the great Canada we live in today. From Mexican, to french, to Jewish, to African, to Swedish to Middle Easterner. The population of Canada has grown since the 90's by almost 10 000 000!!!!
Now, you do import many immigrants (many from middle east, so have fun w/that) Do i detect some subtle racist hints in there?
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Multicultural is code for mini-balkanization. Check how well the "assimilation" is going. Not well in Canada, and not well anywhere else where the culture coming in is antithetical to the host's or immigrants have no interest in assimilating.
Your pop growth figure does not dispute what I said. Read again slower if necessary.
No "racist hint", but if you want a glimpse of Canada of future look at how well muslims are assimilating right now. Their not.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Canada is NOT a nation of assimilation. PLEASE READ!
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Furthermore: taxes.
Don't forget that a large part of Canada's budget is paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. Canada can afford to spend big on healthcare, bcse since WWII it hasn't had to pay its fair share for military and defense. Canada counts on U.S. to do that for them.
If uni healthcare was cheaper (not) and better (sooo not!) than health insure, there would be no debate in U.S. Suppose you're missing something in your argument? (facts maybe?)
Ignoring your Hitler comment. It's too stupid.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Don't forget that even thought the United States is our biggest trading partner, WE ARE YOURS AS WELL. Without each other we are economically fucked.
Ahhh, your antiCanadian, stereotypical USA will watch it's little brother attitude is so greatIt makes me chuckle every time.
You are too ignorant to the facts of UHC
Debating is a means of putting across the logical. Maybe you would have liked if slavery wasn't debated.
You clearly haven't ignored my Hitler comment seeming as you mentioned it.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Speaking of debating (you are so short on facts and fearful of same that it is laughable), how do you figure your comment re: trading partners (or ANY of comment) has relevance to my posting about taxes and health care and national defense? Please, oh Great Debater, explain that one.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
You talked about how without the USA Canada would be nothing. You failed to mention that without us you'd be pretty god damned poor yourselves...it's like you post, forget and then post again.
Once again, Canada is doing fine economically. Remember, it's the US in a recession, not Canada =).
I responded with calling you out as a typical "I AM ALL POWERFUL AMERICA, ME PROTECT YOU!!" AntiCanadian
I responded also by asking you how have we not payed our fair share of military and defence costs?
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
NEVER said "without USA, Canada would be nothing." Find that quote, or even a paraphrase of it. To quote you: "PLEASE READ". Why, it's like you read and forget what was written .. and then post again.
Never said Canada was not doing fine economically, so no need for "once again". BTW, U.S. not in recession. Got your facts wrong, "once again".
Where have I demonstrated "AntiCanadian" bias? Example please.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
I never said you said that. I said it is the attitude you put across.
USA not in recession?! Haha, wow. You pretty much just let me win the argument. You have just shown the ignorance you have of your own nation.
AntiCanadian bias: You implied that we are a weak nation that have not payed our ways. That we are only able to exist because of your protection. Also, answer the question: HOW HAVE WE NOT PAYED OUR WAYS IN THE SENSE OF MILITARY AND DEFENSE?(The question is a response to your claims.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Verbatim from your post: "You talked about how without the USA Canada would be nothing." So, you were saying you never said that, huh?
U.S. is not in a recession. You are ignorant of U.S. and economics. A recession is defined as 2 consecutive Qtrs of negative growth. The U.S. has not even had one such Qtr. You lose. Again.
You have enough trouble reading what is written without worrying about in "implied" statements. Stick to the basics. Re: defense re-read what I wrote. Nothing hidden there.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
The US is in a recession. Maybe you didn't know this because you only watch FOX news from your parents basement.
What say you of the mortgage crisis? Of the decreasing American dollar? In November the American Dollar was worth 6 cents less than the Canadian dollar!
You may not meet the "definition" of a recession 100%, but it is no doubt that you are in one.
*****
And once again you refuse to answer my question: "HOW HAS CANADA NOT PAID IT'S FAIR SHARE IN MILITARY AND DEFENSE COSTS!!!??
*****
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
So you are stipulating that you messed up (again) and did say what you denied saying after seeing your verbatim post re-typed?
Support claim I "only watch Fox News from my parents (sic) basement."
Mortgage crisis and devaluing (not "decreasing") U.S. dollar have nothing to do with a recession. Headline in YESTERDAY'S Chicago Tribune was about resurgence in U.S. dollar. You quote November? Try to keep up.
Cont'd
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
November was around the beginning was my point.
I must say. this debate has gone nowhere. No matter how much evidence I have provided, whether for this film being an easy right wing attack, or giving you Factual Backup for Moore's film, you ignore it. You haven't seen the Factual backup as you have confessed and you still call his films lies.
How do you explain a fan base not DECLINING after the Director/Creator of said Documentaries, has been, according to you, "debunked"?Please answer first
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Forget November. Try to be current.
I will not go to the links you provided bcse I read MM's defense of his film years ago when he released it and when FHype came out. Don't need to re-read (as you seem to have to). I have, as opposed to you, seen FHeit and FHype. So, seems you are the one lacking in research. My research concludes MM lied thru out FHeit. Your research is incomplete.
Are you stipulating, and support claim as asked above. Please answer first.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Okay. I'll do you a favour. I will watch Fahrenhype just to shut you up about my research. HOWEVER. Please respond to my questions. As well as Provide TWO, only TWO (2) lies from Fahrenheit 9/11. And those two lies (whether they came from Fahrenhype or your own research) I don't care. I will prove they are not lies.
Just do that.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
You are making a mistake if you watch FHype and think you are doing me a favor. You are doing yourself a favor. Once you watch that, then come back to me. You will have plenty of MM lies to try and disprove. I don't need to provide you anything if you watch that movie.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
C'mon!? You couldn't even supply me with one (1)?
Now, that says that you actually can't find any "lies" in Fahrenheit 9/11.
If you can give me one I will take what your saying with more credibility
Remember: If you actually give me a "lie" from Fahrenheit 9/11, I can't prove that it is true, can I? Therefore you would gain the higher ground in the debate.
PS: Don't give me his opinion, give me something BIG and SOLID that is supposed to be a fact but is a "lie" in Fahrenheit 9/11.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
You know, if you had taken all the time you have spent on this site and watched the movie, you could have already seen the 80 minute movie! Watch the movie and you'll get all the MM lies you could handle.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago 2
Still not even one? Your just throwing your credibility away.
The point of a debate is to prove your point, not let the other person "disprove" their own.
So give me one lie, JUST ONE!!
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Watch the film and all your questions will be answered. Do your own research. Improve your credibility by seeing the film you claim is full of lies -- then you'll actually know if you're right. Weekend's coming up. Use 80 minutes of the weekend to learn something.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
I will. But your displaying that you do not know anything.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
I know the system of government in the United States.
Iknow how the film industry works.
I know the "defn" of recession.
I Know the state of the US economy (recession).
UN Fertility and pop stats.
Simple math, advanced math, and how not to be a douchebag.
I know what grammar is, but unlike you, i am not a word nazi. If I was writing for an article or for school I wouldn't shortin things or make grammatical errors.
There is an imp. for NS. But it isn't as great as you seem to think.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Really? Let's recap:
You thought US had one party that called all the shots.
You didn't know diff btwn various position when asked
Didn't know defn of recession 'til told
STIL think US econ in recession when demonstrably not so per the defn that you did not know
Didn't even know were talking about pop, (thought was econ) despite use of word "reproduce"
Are unable to grasp math as shown in pop/fertility discussion
Made some statements that are indecipherable due to grammar
You = wrong
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Once again with the childish hostility.
I'm not going to continue to debate you on those topics. Maybe I don't know enough about them. So i shall hold my tongue, or fingers in this case lol, on them.
Which statements are "indecipherable" due to grammar?
You = Child.
As i said before the debate is about "An American Carol", the right, and Michael Moore. Inc. Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11.
I will gladly continue to debate on those issues. I also debate on the military if you wish.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Childish hostility? No hostility. Not childish. Very forthright, succinct and accurate. Face it, you finally had to admit you were out of your depth, and that you lost the debate (and after stating how much you knew about all those topics too. Hmmm.)
I'll debate you about Fhype -- after you watch it.
I'll debate you about American Carol -- after it is released and we both see it.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Childish Hostility: To paraphrase it as you have paraphrased my "i do not care if I am right or wrong statement". "YOU ARE WRONG NA NA NA NA NA. YOU ARE AN IDIOT, YOU ARE AN IDIOT *raspberry*".
I am going to watch fahrenhype 9/11 after i watch Fahrenheit again so I can be at the highest of my knowledge of the film.
American Carol: It is a right wing attack - the Cast are almost completely outspoken Republicans and David Zucker is known to be a conservative.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
You read into it what you wanted to read into it. (That's a recurring problem for you.) You wrote that you knew about a list of topics. I pointed out how you demonstrated you did not know about those topics based upon your posts here. Then you accused me of showing "childish hostility". The facts are the facts, and your incessant need to read hidden messages into forthright statements is what is causing the problem. That, and you hate to admit you're wrong.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
I hate to admit I'm wrong? Well. Let's just wait and see who's wrong.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
We don't have to wait. Just go thru that list and you'll see.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Once again with the childish hostility.
I'm not going to continue to debate you on those topics. Maybe I don't know enough about them. So i shall hold my tongue, or fingers in this case lol, on them.
Which statements are "indecipherable" due to grammar?
You = Child.
As i said before the debate is about "An American Carol", the right, and Michael Moore. Inc. Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11.
I will gladly continue to debate on those issues. I also debate on the military if you wish.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Do your own research.
You bash FHype without having seen it. You say it is full of lies, but haven't seen it. Now just who has the credibility problem?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
As posted nine hours ago per YouTube timeclock:
"First, you ignore the comment I made. Then you introduce a disconnect line of thought. Interesting debate style.
Q: How could subsequent movie be successful?
A: There's an audience for his movies.
BTW, how successful? How much money did it make? How many people saw it? Or was it just "critically acclaimed"?
See, I have answered your questions. You just can't read, can't remember, or can't understand.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Im referring to the Canada question.
The one where I proved that you did say that Canada hasn't payed its fair share for miltary and defense. I have asked at least 4 times how we did not. You have responded once with:
paraphrase "I never said that Canada didn't pay it's fair share of military and defense costs".
But as you can see you did.
The Quote:
"Canada can afford to spend big on healthcare, bcse since WWII it hasn't had to pay its fair share for military and defense."
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Unless your avoiding that, or maybe I did ask again, maybe I am as forgetful as you.
Let me respond to the Moore Question then (again).
I already responded to "There's an audience for his movies". W/ How could the audience stay the same after he was "Debunked and shown a liar.
You have failed to explain that. It seems highly unlikely that his fan base would stay the same after his "debunking".
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
So now you want me to explain human nature? Hey, different things appeal to different people. Some people like his movies and like his lefty slant regardless of how false it is. Same in politics.
The bigger question is how do the French still like Jerry Lewis movies? MM has the political angle, but Lewis?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
True, different things appeal to different people. But if this is your response to my "Why Moore hasn't lost his fanbase" it is pitiful.
And i'm not going to go further in depth because I can't. You just believe that a fan base no matter what will stay with the person, I don't believe that.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Pitiful? No. Accurate? Yes.
Believe what you want.
Guess you know very little about humans either.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago 2
No matter how little I know about you human's I will always know more than you.
Accurate? No. Lame? Yes.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Oh, good one. That's an adaptation of "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"
What are you, nine years old?
We've already established you know nothing of the film business, nothing of economic terms, nothing of the U.S. economy, nothing of the U.S. political system . . . but you are holding yourself out as an expert on human nature? Please.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
When did i say i was an expert?
We've never established anything my friend. Just that you're an arrogant tool.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Do not position yourself as so all-knowing ("No matter how little I know about you human's (sic) I will always know more than you.") if you don't want to be mistaken as being a self-proclaimed expert.
YOU have never established anything. I have established plenty (including the list published above). If by "arrogant" you mean "knowledgeable" -- even "more knowledgeable than Propagandhi900" then yes, I guess I'm guilty as charged. But "tool"?
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Oh boy. I'm dealing with a real hard neocon.
By Arrogant I mean just that. If I wanted to say knowledgeable I couldn't because i don't lie.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
Ahh, another assumption gone awry. What possesses you to call me a neocon? (Especially within the context of a discussion about you mistakenly positioning yourself as a quasi-expert on -- well, apparently everything)
Explain how I am arrogant. You just threw that out there with no evidence/backup (you know, like you do with all your posts). Love to hear it. FYI: it ain't bragging if it's true.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
"It ain't bragging if it's true"? You complain about grammar and use "ain't"? Well....yes it is bragging...
Bragging/Boasting - to speak of with excessive pride or vanity: 'He boasted of his family wealth'.
You are arrogant because you perceive Fahrenhype 9/11 to be true at face value. You are arrogant because you refuse to see the factual back-up for Fahrenheit 9/11. This makes you arrogant because you are portraying yourself as "know-all; None know better".
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
The phrase is a well known saying, akin to a homily. That you may not be familiar with it does not mean it isn't. Also, when quoting, it is best to use the actual words in the quote. In this case, "ain't" is part of the saying. So, use was appropriate.
I am arrogant bcse I believe a movie on face value/refuse to see factual back-up for the other movie? As stated many times before: I have seen both movies (you still haven't) and seen MM's counter argument to FHype. Both your claims are wrong.
InvestigatorDave 3 years ago
Also. Saying our population growth is not sustainable isn't a good argument, BECAUSE our fertility rate is at about 1.6-1.8. Americas is about 1.9-2.15. That isn't much higher. You also have to realize that you do have a higher population, about 10 times bigger. Henceforth you should have a higher fertility rate.
W/ a growing population via immigration it is bound to increase.
Propagandhi900 3 years ago
I was wrong. Just when I thought you might has stopped writing about things you don't understand, here you are again.
Per U.N. stats: Canada at 1.48; U.S. at 2.11. Sustanability # is 2.1. I know you don't like definitions, but fertility rate is the number of live babies born per woman. So, math-boy, you can see that the size of the population does not matter.
Immigration is how Canada is replacing its dwindling pop. Where are they from and what do they believe, and will they assimilate?