as a Quaker I simply believe that each one of us has a direct line to God and Him to us. If praying to saints helps in your spiritual walk then it's a good thing but I think it also has much to do with how we were raised or how we came to faith.
Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.
Protestants don't believe that praying/asking those in heaven, (the sinless servants of God), to join them in their prayers to God, do Protestants ask/pray to others, (the sinners here on earth), to join in their own petitions to God?
They believe you're ONLY allowed to petition/pray to Jesus w/ no one else to join them.
Thats the way that I have always understood it. That Protestants do not pray to saints but as a Catholic you always hear talk or praying to saints to intercede on your behalf with God. Just one more person to help plead your case. They of course can't make the decision to grant your prayers or not but what can it hurt to have one more amazing person on your side?
@cinnaraisnbagel it can hurt you and your family thats who it can hurt it can also open up your mind to the spiritual realm satan now has more access because God is jealous God it says so all through the bible old testament and new the old testament have no God before me and the new testament says you can not have two kings and not serve one higher then the other you well always serve one higher then the other the other there fore you can not serve God and mammon.
now dont get me wrong, saints are amazing people who lived lives for God, but tell me, out of Mark, Luke, John, New or Old Testament did anyone pray to a saint? Praying to saints is praying to Man, now matter how you look at someone, no matter how many good deeds they have done, they are just man in the end. Pray to God and Christ only
Prayer either to a saint or directly to god is totally ineffective. Tests have been done .Prayer, can have a soothing,calming effect onthe prayer.I can`t figure why this almighty god would be interested in the feelings of an insignificant animal on a tiny planet.
Jesus was not free from sin, neither was Mary, NO ONE is free from sin. I suggest you read the infancy gospel of Thomas, its in the ethiopian bible, also the gospel of mary and jubilees. NO physical being on this planet is free from sin, that includes Jesus. The fact does remain that Jesus was turned over to the Romans by the Jewish leadership to be crucified because he gained popularity. Even moreso after his death, that following after crucifixion was uncommon in those days
Explain something to me. If Jesus was not perfect, how could He serve as a sacrifice? In the Old Testament, people had to offer unblemished animals for sacrifice. Anything with a flaw was not good enough for God. Jesus took the place of those sacrifices, once and for all. How could He do that if He himself was not the one perfect being?
Absolutely not. I'm just saying that Mary was no more perfect than my own mother. While the baby she bore was perfect, she was still human. In that regard, she is not worthy of worship, which is what I think praying to her is.
So you are saying you only respect and acknowledge Jesus, and not his family? I thought we were to love thy mother and father. I'm sure Jesus loved Mary. Shouldn't we? Come on, its the woman who gave birth to Jesus, she brought him into the world, is she not worth even one prayer?
I think we're going to fail to see eye to eye on this one. I'm not sure why you think that Jesus earthly family is worthy of praying to. They have no supernatural powers, no magical ability to grant your wishes. Jesus and Jesus alone was a perfect human being during his time on earth. Praying to anyone but God takes away attention from God and puts it on them. That violates the first commandment.
Ok then why when Jesus is dying on the cross does he have enough respect for his mother to tell her to take care of John and John to take care of her? Also when throughout the bible she makes requests of him he honors he so by doing such? I think its quite to the contrary. Jesus gave us Mary to be our mother as she was to him and as such we should respect her and hold her in esteem.
See, you're saying that we should respect her and hold her in esteem. That's a totally different thing than PRAYING to her. I respect my parents and hold them in esteem as well, but I don't pray to them. Cinnaraisnbagel, I respect YOU, but I don't pray to you, nor could you give me a good reason to do so.
I also find it hard to believe that in a tough time you have never said oh grandma, or someone else who has passed on, please help me with this etc etc etc. I know very few people who havent done such because it just feels natural. What is this considered?
On the part about the cross, of course he wanted someone to take care of his mother...wouldn't you? I still don't see where that's an argument that she is worthy of worship.
I think we pray to the saints because they all have there, hmm whats the word, specialties? I guess. Like the patron saint of animals is St. Francis. If your pet was I'll you could pray to him. Thats how I'd see it anyway. And as far as praying to mary, well mary is Jesus' mother, I guess she needs some attention too.
But if God is supreme, then only He deserves that honor. As RepublicOTexas said above, if you pray to Mary, a woman who was not sinless like Christ, you might as well pray to your own mother.
Yes and no. My mother didnt bear the son of god. I guess maybe my difference lies in semantics. I dont consider just praying or asking for them to go to god for me as well to help with something as worship. Worship involves not only prayer but mass and so many other things that I dont really do for saints.
And I have seen in places in the bible itself where for instance, forgive my spelling on these names, Elisha asks Elijah to give him I believe its half of his abilities or something like that, Elijah responds and then passes on to heaven and then shortly after Elisha is given some of the ability that Elisha had. What would this be considered?
Well, to be honest, Rob, no one else was taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire either, so I think there may have been a special case. Either way, it was God, not Elijah who granted the double portion of prophetic power to Elisha. You'll notice that right after he asks Elijah for his power, Elisha cries out to God. Only after that do we see him operate in that power.
I don't believe that worship requires mass. This morning when I went into a quiet room and prayed to GOD and read His word, I was in an act of worship. Later in the day when I went to deacon duty and patrolled the parking lot to make sure nothing got broken into, I was in an act of worship to God, because I did it for Him.
I also find it hard to believe that in a tough time you have never said oh grandma, or someone else who has passed on, please help me with this etc etc etc. I know very few people who havent done such because it just feels natural. What is this considered?
I think that's considered to praying to someone who can't help you. If everyone in heaven had the ability to answer prayer, God would have a slack job.
I look at it like, Mary and the saints are just people. They weren't perfect like Jesus. The reason we pray to him is that he is the only one worthy of presenting our requests to God the Father. What's the point of praying to Mary? All due respect, I might as well pray to my own mother if I'm going to do that.
I think you mispoke about Jesus being perfect as he wasnt. He was a physical being on earth. (ie: infancy gospel of Thomas...Pope Pontius the 3rd, got rid of that chapter in the 6th century along with the gospel of mary and Jubilees) These are in the Ethiopian Bible still. Jesus is our savior, BUT; he was not perfect nor was his mother or Mary his wife.
But I did not misspeak. Jesus was and is the human manifestation of God. He is part of the Trinity, flawless and sinless. Only a spotless lamb could have been a savior on the cross. That perfect sacrifice was Jesus Christ.
See I dont agree. While these people arent perfect they were put here to do and did some great and extraordinary things. We should aspire to be like them. And because they have done some of those things why should we not be able to ask them to interceede on our behalf with god. Not only that but honor great deeds that he has worked through others only brings more honor to what he has done.
Why should we not ask them to interceede on our behalf?... Because the Bible says "there is but one intercessor between God and Man...Jesus Christ". It's just that simple. Now, if you want to make up your own gospel, knock yourself out!
as a Quaker I simply believe that each one of us has a direct line to God and Him to us. If praying to saints helps in your spiritual walk then it's a good thing but I think it also has much to do with how we were raised or how we came to faith.
boomac62 2 years ago
Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.
Protestants don't believe that praying/asking those in heaven, (the sinless servants of God), to join them in their prayers to God, do Protestants ask/pray to others, (the sinners here on earth), to join in their own petitions to God?
They believe you're ONLY allowed to petition/pray to Jesus w/ no one else to join them.
Right?
starcarrillo 3 years ago
Thats the way that I have always understood it. That Protestants do not pray to saints but as a Catholic you always hear talk or praying to saints to intercede on your behalf with God. Just one more person to help plead your case. They of course can't make the decision to grant your prayers or not but what can it hurt to have one more amazing person on your side?
cinnaraisnbagel 3 years ago
@cinnaraisnbagel it can hurt you and your family thats who it can hurt it can also open up your mind to the spiritual realm satan now has more access because God is jealous God it says so all through the bible old testament and new the old testament have no God before me and the new testament says you can not have two kings and not serve one higher then the other you well always serve one higher then the other the other there fore you can not serve God and mammon.
BoTBPoRSoTGSoFSoTS 1 month ago
The Jewish elders (saints) tell Jesus he (me & you) really needs help. he is worthy of this.
Later on you say prayers/novenas to different saints and wat happens
When Jesus is still undecided on when to answer your prayer ..
the Officer ( you and me by saying different prayers to different saints ) sends more friends ( Saints ) to speak for u on your behalf
becoz u as a person can never stand in front of God even if u have the smallest peck of SIN in your heart
ajojose18 3 years ago
Good Day Rob .
well i know this reply is kind of a late but here it is.
Saints in heaven recommend our case to God. But only if we are worthy of it.
You read the verse for your self
Luke 7:
let me put this as a story representing the charecters
the Roman Officer ( me and you )
Jewish elders / friends ( Saints in heaven )
to ask him ( Jesus ) to come and heal his Servant ( your intension ).
ajojose18 3 years ago
and on top of it your glasses are fine
iBeAtHiTlErInChEsS 4 years ago
now dont get me wrong, saints are amazing people who lived lives for God, but tell me, out of Mark, Luke, John, New or Old Testament did anyone pray to a saint? Praying to saints is praying to Man, now matter how you look at someone, no matter how many good deeds they have done, they are just man in the end. Pray to God and Christ only
iBeAtHiTlErInChEsS 4 years ago
Prayer either to a saint or directly to god is totally ineffective. Tests have been done .Prayer, can have a soothing,calming effect onthe prayer.I can`t figure why this almighty god would be interested in the feelings of an insignificant animal on a tiny planet.
Philos2006 4 years ago
Jesus was not free from sin, neither was Mary, NO ONE is free from sin. I suggest you read the infancy gospel of Thomas, its in the ethiopian bible, also the gospel of mary and jubilees. NO physical being on this planet is free from sin, that includes Jesus. The fact does remain that Jesus was turned over to the Romans by the Jewish leadership to be crucified because he gained popularity. Even moreso after his death, that following after crucifixion was uncommon in those days
Lewismadmax 4 years ago
Explain something to me. If Jesus was not perfect, how could He serve as a sacrifice? In the Old Testament, people had to offer unblemished animals for sacrifice. Anything with a flaw was not good enough for God. Jesus took the place of those sacrifices, once and for all. How could He do that if He himself was not the one perfect being?
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
Yeah, but are you calling yourself Jesus by praying to your mother? Because thats kind of what it sounds like
RightAsWrong 4 years ago
Absolutely not. I'm just saying that Mary was no more perfect than my own mother. While the baby she bore was perfect, she was still human. In that regard, she is not worthy of worship, which is what I think praying to her is.
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
So you are saying you only respect and acknowledge Jesus, and not his family? I thought we were to love thy mother and father. I'm sure Jesus loved Mary. Shouldn't we? Come on, its the woman who gave birth to Jesus, she brought him into the world, is she not worth even one prayer?
RightAsWrong 4 years ago
I think we're going to fail to see eye to eye on this one. I'm not sure why you think that Jesus earthly family is worthy of praying to. They have no supernatural powers, no magical ability to grant your wishes. Jesus and Jesus alone was a perfect human being during his time on earth. Praying to anyone but God takes away attention from God and puts it on them. That violates the first commandment.
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
Ok then why when Jesus is dying on the cross does he have enough respect for his mother to tell her to take care of John and John to take care of her? Also when throughout the bible she makes requests of him he honors he so by doing such? I think its quite to the contrary. Jesus gave us Mary to be our mother as she was to him and as such we should respect her and hold her in esteem.
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
See, you're saying that we should respect her and hold her in esteem. That's a totally different thing than PRAYING to her. I respect my parents and hold them in esteem as well, but I don't pray to them. Cinnaraisnbagel, I respect YOU, but I don't pray to you, nor could you give me a good reason to do so.
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
I also find it hard to believe that in a tough time you have never said oh grandma, or someone else who has passed on, please help me with this etc etc etc. I know very few people who havent done such because it just feels natural. What is this considered?
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
On the part about the cross, of course he wanted someone to take care of his mother...wouldn't you? I still don't see where that's an argument that she is worthy of worship.
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
As I stated below to patriotaction I dont consider just praying to a saint to be worship. Worship involves so much more than just prayer.
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
I think we pray to the saints because they all have there, hmm whats the word, specialties? I guess. Like the patron saint of animals is St. Francis. If your pet was I'll you could pray to him. Thats how I'd see it anyway. And as far as praying to mary, well mary is Jesus' mother, I guess she needs some attention too.
RightAsWrong 4 years ago
But I think the question is, "Why do they deserve for us to pray to them?"
patriotaction 4 years ago
Well, if you believe in them and what they do/have done, then it goes without saying.
RightAsWrong 4 years ago
But if God is supreme, then only He deserves that honor. As RepublicOTexas said above, if you pray to Mary, a woman who was not sinless like Christ, you might as well pray to your own mother.
patriotaction 4 years ago
Yes and no. My mother didnt bear the son of god. I guess maybe my difference lies in semantics. I dont consider just praying or asking for them to go to god for me as well to help with something as worship. Worship involves not only prayer but mass and so many other things that I dont really do for saints.
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
And I have seen in places in the bible itself where for instance, forgive my spelling on these names, Elisha asks Elijah to give him I believe its half of his abilities or something like that, Elijah responds and then passes on to heaven and then shortly after Elisha is given some of the ability that Elisha had. What would this be considered?
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
Well, to be honest, Rob, no one else was taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire either, so I think there may have been a special case. Either way, it was God, not Elijah who granted the double portion of prophetic power to Elisha. You'll notice that right after he asks Elijah for his power, Elisha cries out to God. Only after that do we see him operate in that power.
patriotaction 4 years ago
I don't believe that worship requires mass. This morning when I went into a quiet room and prayed to GOD and read His word, I was in an act of worship. Later in the day when I went to deacon duty and patrolled the parking lot to make sure nothing got broken into, I was in an act of worship to God, because I did it for Him.
patriotaction 4 years ago
I also find it hard to believe that in a tough time you have never said oh grandma, or someone else who has passed on, please help me with this etc etc etc. I know very few people who havent done such because it just feels natural. What is this considered?
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
I think that's considered to praying to someone who can't help you. If everyone in heaven had the ability to answer prayer, God would have a slack job.
patriotaction 4 years ago
I look at it like, Mary and the saints are just people. They weren't perfect like Jesus. The reason we pray to him is that he is the only one worthy of presenting our requests to God the Father. What's the point of praying to Mary? All due respect, I might as well pray to my own mother if I'm going to do that.
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
I think you mispoke about Jesus being perfect as he wasnt. He was a physical being on earth. (ie: infancy gospel of Thomas...Pope Pontius the 3rd, got rid of that chapter in the 6th century along with the gospel of mary and Jubilees) These are in the Ethiopian Bible still. Jesus is our savior, BUT; he was not perfect nor was his mother or Mary his wife.
Lewismadmax 4 years ago
But I did not misspeak. Jesus was and is the human manifestation of God. He is part of the Trinity, flawless and sinless. Only a spotless lamb could have been a savior on the cross. That perfect sacrifice was Jesus Christ.
RepublicOTexas 4 years ago
See I dont agree. While these people arent perfect they were put here to do and did some great and extraordinary things. We should aspire to be like them. And because they have done some of those things why should we not be able to ask them to interceede on our behalf with god. Not only that but honor great deeds that he has worked through others only brings more honor to what he has done.
cinnaraisnbagel 4 years ago
Why should we not ask them to interceede on our behalf?... Because the Bible says "there is but one intercessor between God and Man...Jesus Christ". It's just that simple. Now, if you want to make up your own gospel, knock yourself out!
in2food 4 years ago