Reformation Sunday Service 11:00am October 28, 2007 # 05/08

[karpov89]

Hi! How come the liturgical color of Reformation Sunday is red? That does not seem to be right..

[DolensSemper]

@karpov89 In this case the red colour should refer to the Holy Spirit's own acting during the Reformation, e. g. by supporting the reformers and giving them the power for the right doctrine of the Holy Gospel.

Unfortunately my English is quite bad - I hope to be clearer in Latin.

Hac die ruber ostendat actus Spiritus Sancti in reformatione. Hic ipse confirmavit mentes reformatorum et donavit eis rectam doctrinam evangelii sicut et S. Stephano Act 7, 55.

[karpov89]

@DolensSemper Danke schön, Sie schreiben doch gut Englisch. In der grössten Lutherischen Kirche der Welt ist die Reformation nichts besonders zu feiern, und die Meinung ist auch dass der H G sei nicht immer mit den Reformatoren gewesen, dadurch ist die Liturgische Farbe an dem Sexagesima (oder Reformationssonntag) nicht Rot.

[DolensSemper]

@karpov89 It's interesting to hear that there seems to be a difference between German and international Lutheran churches in this point. We remeber the reformation on Oct31st, no matter if it's a sunday, and our usual and also demanded litugical colour is red, for the reasons I wrote. Of course the Holy Spirit wasn't always with the Reformators. But the reformation's concluded effects are the fruits of His act - or at least they can be interpreted this way. So in my opinion red isn't wrong.

[karpov89]

@DolensSemper Yes Sexagesima is not in October but in the winter, but the second Sunday before Ash Wednesday. Well it is a problem in Germany as Evangelische Kirche Deutschlands, EKD, is not a Lutheran Church whatsoever. It is a mix of Lutheran and Calvinist teachings. SELK are Lutherans and also small parts of the EKD. The Reformation is also not so positive as it meant a breach of the Church.

[DolensSemper]

@karpov89 I already wondered why you call a sunday around Oct31st Sexagesimae.Now I understand your irritation. Obviously there is a connotation to this sunday which is unknown in Germany.

But concernig the EKD:It's not a church but a federation of self-sufficient Landeskirchen.There is no mix of teachings caused by the EKD - Lutheran churches do not have Calvinist or Zwinglian demoninations in Germany.

And the Reformation just broke the institutions - the true ecclesia Christi can't be broken.

[karpov89]

@DolensSemper Yes I know it is a federation and the Landeskirchen are different..but the federation is really "double reformed" in the 19th century. That is why Theology and Liturgical practises are different when compared to the Scandinavian (in particular the one in Sweden and Finland) Lutheran Churches. For example there are no consecrated bishops, priests and deacons and sacramental Theology is not clearly Lutheran.

[JonathanTTS]

Modern day Lutheranism is just left-over Roman Catholocism.

I have never met a modern day Lutheran who can give a clear testimony of salvation in Christ.

They're always trying to work for something, which is completely turning Luther's life and preaching on its head.

[bimboblacky]

I REVERSED that negative rating so that it evens out at THIS time, 1st of all. :) *I* have met such people; they were all members of a Lutheran church in New Mexico (I'll say that much), and ESPECIALLY the lead pastor and his family. The lead pastor and his wife have since moved 2 another state, and the pastor has long since retired.