@SwordofManticorE When i say spiritual death, i don't mean annihilation but just being separated from God (the city) but be in the presence of the holy angels and JESUS being chastised. They are spiritually dead because they dont wanna have a relationship with God at that moment but wants to live in sin becuz its their pleasure. Once all those corrected and in alligiance with god thats when death and hell is no more needed becuz everyone will have life. All negativity will end.
@jamesstenbeck1977 I dont believe your view is correct theology, though merciful as it sounds. The second death is symbolic for the second destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and the end of the religiouse life of daily sacrifice as the jews knew it.
@AliceSpicer The time line of when revelations was written and some research online. You do know Alice that the Temple was destroyed twice. Remember the richman in Luke 16 died and went to hades (symbolic for the seperation from God).
The LORD is saving us from our sin so we want perish early but have a fulfillment life.Also one does not have to feel the torment of God's loving WORDS but willingly to accept it in heart. The LOF is GOD'S WORDS tormenting those who do not wanna hear but continue their sinful ways. They are still in separation from God which they are experiencing the SECOND DEATH.
One sin enough to send us to hell? But none of us have ever committed only one sin. The Bible says God has concluded us all under sin—as if we are all equal sinners— so that He can show mercy to all.
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience...Paul mostly talked about the salvation side, and not so much about the judgment side, but it was against the backdrop of the judgment of God. To leave that out takes away from its true meaning.
Paul was not teaching a different thing than Jesus, and Jesus taught that there is a hell to be saved from. It is something that people are in strong rebellion against now, but Jesus and Paul both taught it.
you have a free will, god wants you to be saved and god can save you.
here it comes:
god leaves it up to you if you want to go to hell or not. he COULD save you against your will. but that would have no value for him. and he loves you SO much, that he even gives you the most stupid thing to desire.... HELL.
@R3mProductions Is God not able to change the will of the human heart? Isn't that exactly what He does in saving anyone? Where was the free will argument for S/Paul on the road to Damascus? Paul said, "being enemies, we have been reconciled to God", indicating that any change of the human will (which is by nature against God) originates not from us, but from God. Consequently, the "value" idea you propose has no scriptural basis and contradicts the idea that our value is found solely in Him.
if you take out the argument if hell is eternal or not it doesn't change the fact that the Word was talking about the elect being firstfruits so that there maybe later fruits that choose on their own.
@pgfracing Have you studied the feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles in the Old Testament? What do they represent for us today? Because the clue to our Fathers plan for all are in these three festivals
@TheShaggytulip Plz tell how10s of billions burning in a place of fire glorifies God? Ppl like you and James H enterpret scripture based on your hidden desires.
@SwordofManticorE how can i or even james H have hidden desires. do you think that i would actually enjoy watching people being burned for all eternity. no i would not. i cant call myself a christian if i actually enjoyed people suffering.
God is a God of wrath. psalm 7:11-12 actually says " if a man does not repent, God will hasten his bow, and ready his sword". God declares everyman everywhere to repent of their sins. if not, they will be sent to hell. hell displays his justice.
@TheShaggytulip Do I believe you have a hidden desire for vengence? Ask yourself this. If hell is real, than you must believe that God believes that those in hell deserve it. Therefor, you yourself must also believe they deserve it as well. This is not love, but hate. You seperate yourself from them. There are no rewards for those who love only those who love them back.
@SwordofManticorE unversilism and no hell ism, is not about love. its about destroying God's holiness, his justice. its about telling God how to act, not Him commanding everyone everywhere to obey. you sir and everyone else who beleive this heresy, destroy the gospel. im done arguing with you or anyone else about something so simple. its like trying to argue someone about whether gravity exist. please read your bible. thank you and goodbye.
@SwordofManticorE hell displays his holiness. God is enexhaustibly holy. he cannot have sin in his presence. and also like i said before, if a child read the entire bible front to back. i garantee you, that he would see hell in the bible. and if he studied it. he would come to same conclusion. a brother of mine said it this way, "God is most passionate for his glory".
@TheShaggytulip Well Hitler with all the evil he commited cannot be compared with the image of God you have created. You have created a hypocritical, tryant monster of a god. This image you worship is no different than the golden image in Dan 3:1-6. It is written that God created man in His image. Sadly, people like you repay God back by doing the same to Him.
@SwordofManticorE ok first off, no i havent. the bible is plain about hell. God is Holy. God hates sin. and sinners. psalm 7 shows this, john 3:36 says "those who believe on the son have life. but those who do not beleive has the wrath of God abiding on them".
everyone deserves hell. one sin is enough to send someone to hell. why? because God is holy. and we are wicked. this makes Jesus all the more precious to beleivers.
@TheShaggytulip The carnal man enterprets scripture based by his carnal desires. If you combine ignorance, with hate, fear, selfrightouse pride, blind ego and spark the religiouse engine with a pharasitical spirit. You will find a hell believer. There is nothing holy about burning and torturing billions forever. I have to give the annihialists a thumbs up over you. At least according to their beliefs, the wicked are not tortured forever. Cruelty and injustice go hand in hand.
@SwordofManticorE this is what happens when people look at the bible through a huministic lense. mabey i didnt make myself clear, cause here lately ive been repeating myself alot, and yet people still want to argue. like i said before. im done arguing with you. ive prolly never met you, and i prolly wont. but every time you say something, and i reply i seem to repeat myself alot. im done arguing with you. because honestly you havent responded with scripture, its always a from a human standpoint.
@TheShaggytulip Your brotherly love for me and your concerns for my salvation is typical from religiouse christians like you. You behave like the prodigal sons older brother. Do you know what is different between you and a pharisee? very little (other than you believe that Yahushua is the messiah). What you both have in common is your belief that only you are saved. You as you and not unbelievers and the pharisee as in not the gentiles. BTW, at least the Jews know what death is.
i may act like a pharisee sometimes. so does every other chirstian. but i know jesus died for wicked sinners who deserve nothing but God's wrath. Jesus saved me. this is what makes him precious. he not only saved me from hell, but he saved me from myself. my sins. he set me free, when i didnt deserve it. i deserve hell and nothing but it. this makes grace glorious. how can i say that im only saved. i must and metally challenged if i ever say that.
@TheShaggytulip Christ did not save us all from etenal torture. He saved us all from eternal sleep in our graves. The apostle Paul who was given full councle from God to teach us (Acts 20:27), never once spoke about a place called hell. He did however say that the punishment for sin is death. Not eternal torture. You openly admit that you may act sometimes like a pharisee, but it was the pharisees and their religiouse attitudes that Christ apposed and called them vipers.
@TheShaggytulip "he cannot have sin in his presence"?Mark2;16He ate with sinners,Job2;1the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.1samuel16;14 an evil spirit FROM the LORD tormented him...your understanding of Gods holiness and judgements is WAY off.evil is from God to TEACH us and give contrast(knowledge of good+evil)God is just and the punishment NEVER outweighs the crime.in what measure you meet(Mat7;2+Gal6;7)hell is not justice
sry about the whole repeating myself, my computer was acting like a idiot. everytime i would click the post button, it would say error, so i thought that i didnt post, so i had t repost everything. :( i did a video reply on my channel, please watch it.
@TheShaggytulip Look at the dates on my vids, and then rethink the whole Rob Bell wannabe comment. Bell challenged the doctrine of eternal torment AFTER I started posting vids, which was almost two years AFTER God opened my eyes concerning these things. The reason Bell also knows is because the Spirit of God revealed it to Him, as I pray He does for you as well.
@AliceSpicer so!!!!!! God is eternal. which means also heaven and hell are eteranl. God would indeed be just in someone being thrown into hell for all eternity. he would even still be just for someone entering heaven. God would not be just if he allowed someone to enter hell for only a short period of time.
@AliceSpicer whatever!!! God is eternal. which means hell and heaven are also eternal. u need to read context of the scriptures u are using. read ephesian 1. and as well as the gospels, cause Jesus speaks more about hell than anyone else in the bible. im done arguing with you. i sorry about the whole rob bell thing. when paul talks about reconsilliation, he only means that for the christians. and the restoraion of the world. not everyone on the planet. again im done arguing with you!!!!!!
Good 101 Dialogue between Calvin vs Arminius Theological differences: The first (in secular/modern language) is determinism vs. second is free-will. In biological terms (analogy), the first is genetics vs. second is environment.
What a brilliant expose this is on the differences between Arminianism and Calvanism and both in contrast to Paul and the rest of scripture. A and C have driven me crazy for too many years. I am presently researching UR at great depth. My heart rejoices as I see God's love and justice being exonerated. It is the only view that makes sense to me -- it totally accords with God's character. Yes there are some scriptures that dont fit but then all views have them (Gregory MacDonald) Blessings.
One more to contemplate: Life teaches competition and good vs. evil in MANY ways. In order for us to "overcome," we have to have adversaries and enemies. Don't be naive and think that no one delights in evil; many do and it's appropriate for God to judge them. The concept of one burning Hell where everyone receives equal torment is wholly contrary to what the Scripture teaches. God's Word is clear that His judgment is just and righteous and equitable. There is much else you need to receive.
@AliceSpicer I'm sure we also agree that He's amazingly gracious, wonderful and altogether lovely.
I liked the Superman family of comics when I was a child and it wasn't long after Jesus declared His love for me that I realized: "The truth is greater than fantasy!"
I hesitate to continue because I don't wish to dominate your page, but you need to understand certain key truths that your affections show you don't duly value. If you can hear this, it will help: All truth received is like adding pure water to a dirty pond. The more pure water that's added, the clearer and cleaner the water becomes. Receiving truth is the result of heart cry and desire to be washed of deceit and the lies of this world. There's more truth than we have time. Hunger & thirst 4 it.
@BludBaut I like your analogy for truth, but it doesn't ring true, spiritually. In Christ we have a fountain of living water springing from within, and we never thirst.
@AliceSpicer It's two different images representing two different things. Jesus was representing the life of God flowing from our new man. I was representing the gradual change that occurs in our understanding as truth renews our minds.
On the other hand, it's very easy to see its appeal. It doesn't require one to seek God for wisdom and understanding. Jesus appeared to me and testified to me the day I was born again. He's done many other things such as giving me greater depth of understanding of much Scripture that most Believers and preachers don't have. God didn't choose everyone and He's still loving and just, but reconciling His wrath and His grace (Rom 11:22) REQUIRES hearing and receiving significant revelation from Him.
@BludBaut I say "require" because to really see that God's love and kindness, which is so far beyond what our natural mind can readily accept, and yet also see His wrath and judgment, and still come away and say, "God isn't worthy of ANY criticism whatsoever!" requires overcoming concepts and perspectives that natural life gives us from our birth and it's also a large part of the agenda of satan to malign our wonderful Lord who "does all things well," "cannot lie" and is "altogether lovely."
@BludBaut Let me ask you this - when you compare my view with your own, which view demonstrates that Jesus accomplishes His mission as Savior of the world, in His own words, "to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work"? Which view shows that He does this well? Which view proves He cannot lie (every knee will bow, every tongue will confess)? Which view is altogether lovely?
@AliceSpicer Our judgment of which we prefer isn't the determining factor of truth. The determining factor is the witness of the Spirit which agrees with the Word of God. It's a wrong agenda to look to use truth to justify one's perspective.
It's error to seek to justify what we want to be true; our agenda should be to hear and agree with God. That's one reason God gives me so much revelation -- because I don't have another agenda in seeking truth.
@AliceSpicer "when you compare my view with your own,"
I saw from the get go that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Most people do what you've done, which is wrong. They look for evidence to support what they want to believe and depreciate and diminish what "doesn't fit." You've done that with this belief. It's not God.
Your pride is evident in the way you ask your questions. By the very structure of your questions, it's obvious that you're not looking for truth.
@BludBaut Don't forget about verses 23-24! I agree, being reconciled to God requires hearing and receiving. Some are not yet able to hear, though. Why else would Jesus have purposely withheld information? Because some people are not appointed to "get it" in this age.
@AliceSpicer "Not forgetting" "extraneous Scripture" or Scripture that "doesn't quite fit" with what our minds tell is "the whole" is part of the key to hearing truth. Most seek to use Scripture to justify their perspective. In doing so they expose their selfish and carnal agenda. Our agenda is to be the same as Jesus' -- to glorify God.
There are many reasons most of us have a lifetime to adjust to truth.
Your last point is true. God does indeed keep truth hidden from many.
@AliceSpicer cont. In fact, even those who receive truth are limited for various reasons. One might consider it similarly as learning about people. Some want to learn about people so they can use that information to gain advantage of others. Many want spiritual truth for the same reason. Death to self never ceases to be a truth related to virtually all other truth and many let this go because death to self is maintained by faith and consecration is the motivation for that.
There's so much on YouTube one cannot possibly watch a tenth of a percent of it if one spent all day every day so I knew nothing of you but this video until I looked at your channel and after your response about God's "Plan of the Ages," did I go watch others and was sadly disappointed that you've used natural reasoning rather than the revelation of the Spirit to assess universalism as legitimate. It's simple, it's easy, but it's great error and it doesn't require hearing God. Truth does.
@AliceSpicer It's what every person has and is contrary to God 1Cor 2:14.
It's one of those reasons God gives us a lifetime to prove and try and sanctify us. It's just part of why the Scripture says, "He who endures to the end shall be saved." Most Believers don't get any revelation on that verse for years.
@AliceSpicer You're still doing it Alice. You're not looking for truth. You're asking questions to win your point. That's pride and that's NOT the way to get answers from God.
However, I will answer. Salvation is being saved from poverty, sickness and death, is by faith and is the multifaceted redemption prophesied and purchased by Jesus' suffering, death, burial and resurrection. The Greek "sozo" is the equivalent of the Hebrew "shalom" and encompasses all of man's needs.
@BludBaut Why should I look for something I've already found? Jesus said, "I am the truth". Technically, I didn't find the truth, because He found me. If you want to judge the intentions of my heart (pride), then so be it, but I don't recommend it, because you will be judged in the same manner in which you judge others.
@AliceSpicer More subterfuge and deceit. You want to be "on top" and do the questioning and control to issues.
Clearly, you don't have enough of a grasp of truth to be able to handle honest disagreement. You've got videos you've made to which you're committed. How would it help you to humble yourself and learn?
Fine. Forget it. Keep telling yourself you're right and camp. It's more comfortable to camp than follow the cloud.
@BludBaut I fully agree with Matt 19:26, but what does this have to do with Alices husband coming to her defence? From you? Alice doesn't need my help at all. We URs do not act like a pack of wolves coming in to destroy or kill. We bring great news that gives peace, joy and hope. This good news was banished by the RC church by punishment of death.
@BludBaut How is it that I have fooled you brother. Have I offended you in anyway? Have I come to destroy or kill something of yours. If anything, I find your accusation towards me as a wolf offensive, but I forgive you brother.
@AliceSpicer Alice you may not be aware of this but universalismrefuted is Brian Morgen aka gtrjunky. Dont waste a breath on him. He hates the thought of universalism and he hates us URs. Leave it in Gods hands to humble him.
You don't know God very well, do you? Your Bible says it's the goodness of God that leads men to repentance, but you like that Old Testament "Get 'em, God!" mentality.
@SwordofManticorE...or perhaps it is a case of "doth protest too much, methinks"? I usually don't shut people out unless God instructs me directly. I can count on one finger the number of people so far.
@SwordofManticorE I have to agree with this line of reasoning. Some people are only looking for a forum to spread the hate and fear that they feel inside themselves. I will no longer debate anything with people like him when they resort to insults in a futile attempt to make thier point. Their hearts are as dark and twisted as thier pagan torture doctrine. When thier fangs come out I will ignore them.
@UniversalismRefuted Slanted journalism why do some people have such a hard on for the idea that an all loving God will torture billions of people for all eternity and never show pity. Does that sound like Jesus????? Overcome evil with good.... or i'll torture you in a lake of fire and never show pity. Turn the other cheek.... or i'll delight in your enless suffering. Blessed are the merciful.... and everybody else gets tormented night and day for all time. What Bible are you reading?
@johnanderson777777 No, slanted journalism is when people ignore the facts in favor of what they want to hear pr propogate. Now I'm sure you can run your mouth all day with all of the usual verses ripped out of context but I'm sure that if your lousy life were dependant on it, you couldn't exegete a passage if there was a gun to your head.
@UniversalismRefuted Not that he's said anything that suggests he has an ear to hear, but he's very unlikely to want to discuss the matter with you with your harsh demeanor. If you think you have a good handle on the truth that will counter his error, ask the Lord to give you the words and wisdom that will genuinely challenge his perspective.
@UniversalismRefuted If I understand your question, then when I use it loosely to describe or label someone who ignorantly and presumptuously assumes things for which they have no basis and they're simply spewing verbose insults, then yes, I mean it, and I am not "rather blessing instead," which is why I included myself in my remark to you. But, also like you, sometimes I'm just not inclined to bless, but rather answer a fool according to his folly. Prov 26:5 Ecc 3:1
@BludBaut My comment to the other fellow was fitting because of the foul language that he used to me before. I also have no issue with labeling someone an idiot. The problem is that I thought your comment to me was hypocritical. His previous words were comparable to the term I ascribed.
@UniversalismRefuted I tend to see "hypocritical" as carrying with it a blind spot and a superior attitude of "I'm better than that (or you)." I didn't have such an attitude when I spoke to you. I thought of my words as a friend's admonishment, and acknowledged it applied to me also. I think you might want to look again at the situation.
Or not. But Jesus always likes it whenever we make any effort at humility.
@UniversalismRefuted I don't think it was the term so much that stood out to me or others. I think perhaps I didn't communicate as well as I should have. I think it was more an air of that which you accused me that most people saw that I think probably seemed distasteful to them.
And I acknowledge here again, that I do the same thing too much also. So, there I'm leaving myself open to be called a hypocrite once again. :-)
@UniversalismRefuted When you call someone "rectal mouth," while I agree that you wouldn't want your young daughter to ask what he meant, your response provokes people to think, "self-righteous Pharisee." Have you ever considered that when Jesus hung with the sinners, there is no evidence that he ever criticized their behaviors or attitudes. Even the sermon on the mount was given to His disciples. We need to cultivate sweetness of speech, and I'm including myself.
@johnanderson777777 Your perspective has been dictated to you by the devil and you haven't cared enough to know God to learn His voice so as to be able to discern the enemy of your soul's voice.
I'll say it another way. Unless you learn to hear God speak His Word, you will walk in even greater deception. "Believing the Bible" doesn't mean you have a clue about God. Your words illustrate you lack many clues about God.
@johnanderson777777 Your assessment of some people's perspective might be had by the wicked, but it is not the orthodox perspective of those who reject universalism. You lack light and your strong bent to promote and defend what you think, keeps you from hearing God's truth. You're not honoring God by thinking you have the final answer on the matter. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. There's a wealth of truth you don't see that won't support your view.
Very serious error at 4:40, saying that "God's will can be thwarted" is a contradiction of Ephesians 1:11. That's extremely poor exegesis. That statement of five words (not even referencing the new birth or the wider subject of salvation) is in no way a contradiction of Eph.1:11.
Underlining "foreordained, all things and His will" suggests an overarching, all-encompassing doctrine of God's control, which is an opinion ONLY and not something the text unquestionably requires.
@AliceSpicer I think you missed the point. My question should be considered rhetorical, because anyone who believes that God is only good, though has a right to judge all men, would never ascribe evil to God.
Your ilk lack wisdom just as the ilk on the polar opposite does. Both of you refuse to seek God because neither of you have any confidence that God will speak. You're probably right because he resists the proud and you're both proud of your obnoxious polarization.
@BludBaut You answered my plain-spoken, matter-of-fact question with a rhetorical question. And then you say I missed the point. Do you think that if a person says "God is in control" that this person is calling God evil? I'm not playing "obnoxious polarization" games. It's just a question, asked humbly, because I am trying to understand what you are saying. I'm not Calvinist or Arminian, although I do agree with some of the teachings of those two views.
@AliceSpicer I understand. After I read some of your remarks and looked at your page, I saw that you are more thoughtful, with a more genuine heart than most, which is why I left my second remark. I think that people who say, "God is in control" haven't given enough thought to what they are saying or they would never say it because it's misleading. God is in control of everything about which He wants to be in control. He does not control many things. I think you know this. Bless you
@BludBaut Things that appear to be out of God's control are actually under God's control, but our limited linear perspective keeps us from understanding why the worst horrors are permitted by God. We don't have a clear picture, because we exist in the present, and we only have the ability to make judgments about the past. The future is a mystery to us, but it is not a mystery to God, Who can take the rape of a four-yr-old child and cause even this to conform to His Plan of the Ages.
@AliceSpicer I didn't tell you much, but what I did say, you obviously didn't receive, yet I told you the truth. There is NO Scripture that says, "God is in control" (implying that He's in control of everything). It's a man made doctrine because men, thinking they're believing the Bible, ASSUME He's in control of everything because of the limited understanding they have of what they see in the Word. Nevertheless, it's not hard to see that God does not control everything.
@AliceSpicer The Word says that God does whatsoever He pleases. Our understanding of His wisdom is severely limited but it's ludicrous to suggest that God wanted Lucifer to rebel so that the present scenario could take place. To say God controls everything IS saying that God wanted the devil's rebellion and all the calamity that has ensued.
@AliceSpicer Your "explanation" is very faulty. It embraces a philosophy that rejects much of what the Scriptures teach about our responsibilities. There were many reasons Jesus said, "When the Son of man comes, will He find faith on the earth." There is an exceptionally large part of the body of Christ that attributes the evil you suggested to be God's doing while dismissing the failures of men to embrace the promises of God. "We trust in God when we don't understand," cont.
@AliceSpicer I never could bear more than a moment of Ren and Stimpy. Always wondered why anyone would make the effort to make it and why anyone would watch it.
@BludBaut There's one particular episode, I think it is called Space Madness, where Stimpy is put in charge of guarding the shiny red button (history eraser button) - he's warned not to push it. As if his inherent curiosity is not temptation enough, the narrating announcer enters the scene, becoming a tempter. It reminds me very much of the tree of life scene in Eden. God created fallible people and put them in a situation where they would be tempted. He knew exactly what He was doing.
@AliceSpicer Which violates your concept of God's saving everyone. If it was God's agenda to make all men fall so that He could redeem them all, then, among other things, He's a sadistic voyeur, but God is wholly good.
@BludBaut How does naming God's plan - "for God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness" - make God a sadistic voyeur? What I understand from this is that He puts His glory in clay jars so that we know it is not our own glory. He lets us screw up so (sin and die) so that we learn that He (not us) is the One Who holds all things together, the source of life, the light of HIS glory becomes more obvious to us than if we never had the contrasting picture.
@AliceSpicer It seems you're applying a metaphorical truth to the wrong scenario. The tree of life isn't illustrated in God's shutting up all under sin. Give supporting Scripture for that opinion if you can.
Now, if I took you off-topic, why did you let me? Pull me back until you make and defend your point.
@AliceSpicer cont2 can be statements that are polar opposites. It can be a statement of faith, because indeed, we are in the dark about many things, but it can also be religious nonsense masquerading as faith when the real issue was our failure to adequately prepare spiritually for the warfare in front of us accompanied by a hard heart that wouldn't hear the wooing, correction nor discipline of the Spirit of God.
@AliceSpicer I feel compelled to refute your lie. You've effectually testified that all things are controlled by God. True or false? If false, then please nail it down where, as clearly as you're able to explain it, there is no confusion, please.
@AliceSpicer I again want to praise you for your kind words about your husband. They touched my heart. I was married for seventeen years. I wish I had had a wife like you. I've now been divorced for 21 years and my wife did such a job on me that I can't imagine I'll marry again.
@AliceSpicer On your channel comments you said that after 17 years of marriage, he was amazing and interesting. I thought I left a comment on your channel but I have sometimes left a page before hitting "send."
@AliceSpicer Yeah, but because dishonoring men and husbands has been such a strong agenda for so many decades in this country, I always appreciate when I hear what I perceive to be sincere honor for men and especially husbands. As I'm fairly confident that you probably know, women's lib' foundation is contempt for husbands.
@BludBaut Perhaps some women involved in women's lib have contempt for their husbands or husbands in general, but a lot of good has come from women's lib, too.
@AliceSpicer You rejected Scripture with that remark. Jesus said, "make the tree good and its fruit good or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for a tree is known by its fruit."
Women's lib has bred rebellion. Take a closer look at the "great mystery" of Christ and His Church and the typology therein hidden in the husband/wife relationship. Where are we authorized to rebel against Jesus, or second guess Him, or improve on His agenda, or violate His will because we want ours?
@AliceSpicer Also, your hypocrisy is showing. You required me to answer a question, when I had previously asked you to examine something. You ignored my request and pointedly implied that I should answer your question and now again, you ignore my point and ask a new question. Jesus is equitable but you are not.
@BludBaut I just finished a humanities course and a literary course with emphasis in examining literature in light of the feminine movement, so I have a decent idea of what I'm talking about.
@AliceSpicer You don't have the time to do an exhaustive examination, for rebellion is too popular for you to have covered all the literature.
So did you just simply miss the contempt Friedan showed in her home group meeting the night she decided to make a movement out of this hatred or did you avoid it because it wasn't that palatable to try to join it with Christian virtue?
@BludBaut I haven't joined any movement. I've made observations about how women's lives have improved because they are no longer being treated like property or pets.
@AliceSpicer Did it altogether escape your notice how the New Testament apostles preferred referring to themselves as slaves of Christ even though God's revelation made us joint-heirs? Have you EVER spent time meditating on this? Also, in this scenario, we're STILL on the same mystery and the implication shouldn't need my explanation. No or yes?
@AliceSpicer Regardless of whether it's "no" or "yes," I hope by this time your conscience has engaged and reproved you for your lack of equity in refusing to deal with issues I raise while twisting questions to get me to say what you want me to.
This is an important issue and is why many men don't like discussions with women. Men are rational and when the heat is on, women tend to resort to emotional rhetoric to avoid dealing with facts they don't want to acknowledge.
@AliceSpicer Though you're not resorting to emotional rhetoric (yet), you continue to ignore my cogent and salient points while you continue to make points by the way you structure questions. I'm disappointed to find that once again, equitability isn't your strong suit. Please assure me you'll correct this. I'm unwilling to bear this inequity much longer.
@BludBaut My reasoning is simple. If we're both born again and love God, we should have koinonia and the love of the truth should be our common standard and never one-upmanship. So far, the effort at commonality of truth seems to be mostly mine. My agenda is to exalt God and His Word and I still learn from all sorts of sources. I have no problem hearing or seeing truth from a pagan or one wrapped in darkness. Was not God's speaking through an ass illustrative of our need of humility?
@AliceSpicer Disclaimer: I don't abide on this page (haven't even read much of it) and forget the significant errors I found with the video, so my remarks might not really apply to you. I could have assumed, because your question left you wide open to being assumed to be a Calvinist, and that's what provoked my answer. However, you might be more thoughtful than Calvinists, who are more thoughtful than Arminians.
I see God's humor and wisdom in His abundance of paradoxes.
@AliceSpicer My words were not difficult to understand. I suggest you go back to the spot on the video I referenced, examine why I referenced Eph. 1:11 and look at my words more carefully and I think you will understand.
If you genuinely cannot follow, then I will help, but it seems like you're completely uninterested in what I was communicating. Once again, that testifies, "I know the truth. I don't need to learn."
@AliceSpicer How would you explain the second death. What does the Bible mean when its states Eternal torment.? Rev 13:11, Mrk 9:44,45,46.
I rreally dont understand why the need to derail Gods word when states "eternal", or "torment", or the worm "canker"doth not die. How do you explain away this part of Gods word?
Is it not the entire 66 books that are Holy inspired of God
In your personal faith, is it necessary to water baptise, and spirit infilling?
@paskettle How can I address/define/clarify the meaning of second death, eternal torment, 4 proof texts, the worm, the sola scriptura, personal faith, water baptism, and spirit-infilling in 500 characters or less? Try watching some of my other vids, in which you will find some of the answers to your questions, and then if you still have questions, ask one specific question at a time. This would be the most productive use of our time. Thanks for commenting, though.
@AliceSpicer You just spent 500 characters telling me why you couldnt respond to one of the points.
Which is a very good point indeed. The Bible is fairly clear, there is nothing secure eternally except for the blood of Christ. Nothing predistined except for the Judgement seat of Christ.
Its our profession of failth and adherring to his Holy scriptures gives access to the eternal heaven. 24:13 HE that endures to the end shall be saved. Calvinism is an exclusive religious philosophy.
@AliceSpicer Are you familiar with the Bible, or just church a particular church philosophy?
Saved from a Devils Hell, eternal torment, the lake of fire, the worm that dieth not. Permanently absent from Gods presence, perpetual, ceaseless, without end.
People that espouse a temporary Hell experience are really saying, "the torment in Hell is okay, becuase everyone would be released at a later date, and that would prove God's love for man". Through the cross God already proved his love.
@paskettle I'm more familiar with fundamental Baptist beliefs than other denominations or religions, because of my upbringing. I don't attend church, I am the church. I am a student of the word, but I am a disciple of the Good Shepherd 1st. I think that when you say "saved" and I say "saved" we are actually talking about two different ideas. In my opinion, scripture teaches the work of the Cross "saves" us from sin and death, and then there are other ways that we are saved, apart from this.
@AliceSpicer You're not sounding a clear message. Granted, misunderstanding is easy, but I did watch some of your other videos and you definitely present a universalist's perspective that God is not going to punish the wicked. Here your words clearly suggest that you believe He will. "Trumpet, clear sound..." remember those words?
@BludBaut I do believe there are consequences for our actions, for both believers and unbelievers. God will judge everyone. Some people (believers) have a head start in this by submitting to His judgment daily. Yes, there is judgment. God responds appropriately to willful disobedience, hateful and evil deeds, etc. "Everyone will be salted with fire."
@AliceSpicer You're not suggesting that you understand the difference between child rearing and wrath. Your brief explanation greatly muddies the very significant difference the Bible presents.
@AliceSpicer Once again your inequity appears by your refusing to address my point but asking me to address yours. I will do this last one as a good faith gesture and remind you of my previous remarks.
No, I haven't. That's not to say I can't imagine it in some people's lives. For instance, if one's child has very unreasonably murdered, I could understand the parent feeling wrathful, but frankly you still show you don't understand the difference between child rearing and wrath.
@AliceSpicer Your remark doesn't specify whether you believe the lake of fire is really a lake of fire and not simply a picturesque image of a deceptive idea that God wants to use to deceive people with a lie, which God says he cannot do.
@BludBaut Your comments of being deceived by Satan for believing in Universal Salvation is very typical of people who watch TV and believe those televangelist fear mongers. Fact the Bible you're reading is a translation from Greek to Latin to English. Fact the word Aion means Age not eternity. Fact the earliest Christians believed everyone would be saved in their proper order. Stop listening to every scary sounding story you hear.
@johnanderson777777 I laugh at idiots like you who think everyone is the stereotypical religious fruitcake who you're going to impress with your pseudo-knowledge.
I've been hearing God's voice since before you were born. You need to meet the living God and quit patting yourself on the back for being so smart. Those aren't the people who get God's ear, or who hear Him.
Apo 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Apo_20:15 Y el que no fue hallado escrito en el libro de la vida fue lanzado en el lago de fuego.
I kept expecting Calvin to grab Arminius by the throat and tie him to a stake and set him on fire -- other than that distraction, great video. ;) Thanks!
i would stand more for Atheists than those who wanna condemn people to this so called fiery place for eternity. Just sicken.
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
SECOND DEATH is spiritual death.
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
@jamesstenbeck1977 I believe the second death to be symbolic for something else.
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE When i say spiritual death, i don't mean annihilation but just being separated from God (the city) but be in the presence of the holy angels and JESUS being chastised. They are spiritually dead because they dont wanna have a relationship with God at that moment but wants to live in sin becuz its their pleasure. Once all those corrected and in alligiance with god thats when death and hell is no more needed becuz everyone will have life. All negativity will end.
jamesstenbeck1977 1 week ago
@jamesstenbeck1977 I dont believe your view is correct theology, though merciful as it sounds. The second death is symbolic for the second destruction of the temple of Jerusalem and the end of the religiouse life of daily sacrifice as the jews knew it.
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE I've never heard that idea before. On what basis did you come to that conclusion? I'm curious.
AliceSpicer 1 week ago
@AliceSpicer The time line of when revelations was written and some research online. You do know Alice that the Temple was destroyed twice. Remember the richman in Luke 16 died and went to hades (symbolic for the seperation from God).
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE Sorry I never realized that. Thanks for the input.
jamesstenbeck1977 1 week ago
The LORD is saving us from our sin so we want perish early but have a fulfillment life.Also one does not have to feel the torment of God's loving WORDS but willingly to accept it in heart. The LOF is GOD'S WORDS tormenting those who do not wanna hear but continue their sinful ways. They are still in separation from God which they are experiencing the SECOND DEATH.
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
One sin enough to send us to hell? But none of us have ever committed only one sin. The Bible says God has concluded us all under sin—as if we are all equal sinners— so that He can show mercy to all.
Mcfirefly2 1 month ago
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience...Paul mostly talked about the salvation side, and not so much about the judgment side, but it was against the backdrop of the judgment of God. To leave that out takes away from its true meaning.
Mcfirefly2 1 month ago
Paul was not teaching a different thing than Jesus, and Jesus taught that there is a hell to be saved from. It is something that people are in strong rebellion against now, but Jesus and Paul both taught it.
Mcfirefly2 1 month ago
you have a free will, god wants you to be saved and god can save you.
here it comes:
god leaves it up to you if you want to go to hell or not. he COULD save you against your will. but that would have no value for him. and he loves you SO much, that he even gives you the most stupid thing to desire.... HELL.
R3mProductions 1 month ago
@R3mProductions Is God not able to change the will of the human heart? Isn't that exactly what He does in saving anyone? Where was the free will argument for S/Paul on the road to Damascus? Paul said, "being enemies, we have been reconciled to God", indicating that any change of the human will (which is by nature against God) originates not from us, but from God. Consequently, the "value" idea you propose has no scriptural basis and contradicts the idea that our value is found solely in Him.
AliceSpicer 1 month ago
if you take out the argument if hell is eternal or not it doesn't change the fact that the Word was talking about the elect being firstfruits so that there maybe later fruits that choose on their own.
pgfracing 1 month ago
@pgfracing Have you studied the feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles in the Old Testament? What do they represent for us today? Because the clue to our Fathers plan for all are in these three festivals
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE have studied them somewhat, can't say I understand their purpose
pgfracing 1 month ago
@pgfracing They are a reflection and clue to Gods plan for all mankind.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
monergism has a wonderful essay on hell, and how it glorifies God, james h. hammilton jr wrote it please look it up.
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
@TheShaggytulip Plz tell how10s of billions burning in a place of fire glorifies God? Ppl like you and James H enterpret scripture based on your hidden desires.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
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TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE how can i or even james H have hidden desires. do you think that i would actually enjoy watching people being burned for all eternity. no i would not. i cant call myself a christian if i actually enjoyed people suffering.
God is a God of wrath. psalm 7:11-12 actually says " if a man does not repent, God will hasten his bow, and ready his sword". God declares everyman everywhere to repent of their sins. if not, they will be sent to hell. hell displays his justice.
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@TheShaggytulip Do I believe you have a hidden desire for vengence? Ask yourself this. If hell is real, than you must believe that God believes that those in hell deserve it. Therefor, you yourself must also believe they deserve it as well. This is not love, but hate. You seperate yourself from them. There are no rewards for those who love only those who love them back.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE unversilism and no hell ism, is not about love. its about destroying God's holiness, his justice. its about telling God how to act, not Him commanding everyone everywhere to obey. you sir and everyone else who beleive this heresy, destroy the gospel. im done arguing with you or anyone else about something so simple. its like trying to argue someone about whether gravity exist. please read your bible. thank you and goodbye.
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE hell displays his holiness. God is enexhaustibly holy. he cannot have sin in his presence. and also like i said before, if a child read the entire bible front to back. i garantee you, that he would see hell in the bible. and if he studied it. he would come to same conclusion. a brother of mine said it this way, "God is most passionate for his glory".
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@TheShaggytulip Well Hitler with all the evil he commited cannot be compared with the image of God you have created. You have created a hypocritical, tryant monster of a god. This image you worship is no different than the golden image in Dan 3:1-6. It is written that God created man in His image. Sadly, people like you repay God back by doing the same to Him.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE ok first off, no i havent. the bible is plain about hell. God is Holy. God hates sin. and sinners. psalm 7 shows this, john 3:36 says "those who believe on the son have life. but those who do not beleive has the wrath of God abiding on them".
everyone deserves hell. one sin is enough to send someone to hell. why? because God is holy. and we are wicked. this makes Jesus all the more precious to beleivers.
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@TheShaggytulip The carnal man enterprets scripture based by his carnal desires. If you combine ignorance, with hate, fear, selfrightouse pride, blind ego and spark the religiouse engine with a pharasitical spirit. You will find a hell believer. There is nothing holy about burning and torturing billions forever. I have to give the annihialists a thumbs up over you. At least according to their beliefs, the wicked are not tortured forever. Cruelty and injustice go hand in hand.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE this is what happens when people look at the bible through a huministic lense. mabey i didnt make myself clear, cause here lately ive been repeating myself alot, and yet people still want to argue. like i said before. im done arguing with you. ive prolly never met you, and i prolly wont. but every time you say something, and i reply i seem to repeat myself alot. im done arguing with you. because honestly you havent responded with scripture, its always a from a human standpoint.
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE and frankly when you do that. you just waiste mine and your time.
ill say it again im done arguing with you.
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@TheShaggytulip Your brotherly love for me and your concerns for my salvation is typical from religiouse christians like you. You behave like the prodigal sons older brother. Do you know what is different between you and a pharisee? very little (other than you believe that Yahushua is the messiah). What you both have in common is your belief that only you are saved. You as you and not unbelievers and the pharisee as in not the gentiles. BTW, at least the Jews know what death is.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
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TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@SwordofManticorE WOW. thats ill can say.
i may act like a pharisee sometimes. so does every other chirstian. but i know jesus died for wicked sinners who deserve nothing but God's wrath. Jesus saved me. this is what makes him precious. he not only saved me from hell, but he saved me from myself. my sins. he set me free, when i didnt deserve it. i deserve hell and nothing but it. this makes grace glorious. how can i say that im only saved. i must and metally challenged if i ever say that.
TheShaggytulip 1 month ago
@TheShaggytulip Christ did not save us all from etenal torture. He saved us all from eternal sleep in our graves. The apostle Paul who was given full councle from God to teach us (Acts 20:27), never once spoke about a place called hell. He did however say that the punishment for sin is death. Not eternal torture. You openly admit that you may act sometimes like a pharisee, but it was the pharisees and their religiouse attitudes that Christ apposed and called them vipers.
SwordofManticorE 1 month ago
@TheShaggytulip "he cannot have sin in his presence"?Mark2;16He ate with sinners,Job2;1the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.1samuel16;14 an evil spirit FROM the LORD tormented him...your understanding of Gods holiness and judgements is WAY off.evil is from God to TEACH us and give contrast(knowledge of good+evil)God is just and the punishment NEVER outweighs the crime.in what measure you meet(Mat7;2+Gal6;7)hell is not justice
david1611kjv 1 month ago
sry about the whole repeating myself, my computer was acting like a idiot. everytime i would click the post button, it would say error, so i thought that i didnt post, so i had t repost everything. :( i did a video reply on my channel, please watch it.
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
God is eternal. which also means that hell and heaven are eternal
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
@TheShaggytulip Please explain the correlation.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@TheShaggytulip Do you know what hell really is?
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
BAD, sickining thelogy. read ur bible. but good music
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
rob bell wannabe. u need to read the bible.
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
@TheShaggytulip Look at the dates on my vids, and then rethink the whole Rob Bell wannabe comment. Bell challenged the doctrine of eternal torment AFTER I started posting vids, which was almost two years AFTER God opened my eyes concerning these things. The reason Bell also knows is because the Spirit of God revealed it to Him, as I pray He does for you as well.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago 2
@AliceSpicer so!!!!!! God is eternal. which means also heaven and hell are eteranl. God would indeed be just in someone being thrown into hell for all eternity. he would even still be just for someone entering heaven. God would not be just if he allowed someone to enter hell for only a short period of time.
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer whatever!!! God is eternal. which means hell and heaven are also eternal. u need to read context of the scriptures u are using. read ephesian 1. and as well as the gospels, cause Jesus speaks more about hell than anyone else in the bible. im done arguing with you. i sorry about the whole rob bell thing. when paul talks about reconsilliation, he only means that for the christians. and the restoraion of the world. not everyone on the planet. again im done arguing with you!!!!!!
TheShaggytulip 2 months ago
@TheShaggytulip I didn't realize we were arguing :)
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@TheShaggytulip Jesus is the Saviour of ALL men specially,( not generally ) the believers.
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
Pual the false apostle ... sorry, gotta go watch something credible
TheIsmaelIsaac 2 months ago
Good theology, bad music
wjcharlieee 2 months ago
Good 101 Dialogue between Calvin vs Arminius Theological differences: The first (in secular/modern language) is determinism vs. second is free-will. In biological terms (analogy), the first is genetics vs. second is environment.
wjcharlieee 2 months ago
What a brilliant expose this is on the differences between Arminianism and Calvanism and both in contrast to Paul and the rest of scripture. A and C have driven me crazy for too many years. I am presently researching UR at great depth. My heart rejoices as I see God's love and justice being exonerated. It is the only view that makes sense to me -- it totally accords with God's character. Yes there are some scriptures that dont fit but then all views have them (Gregory MacDonald) Blessings.
brianhyde63 2 months ago
One more to contemplate: Life teaches competition and good vs. evil in MANY ways. In order for us to "overcome," we have to have adversaries and enemies. Don't be naive and think that no one delights in evil; many do and it's appropriate for God to judge them. The concept of one burning Hell where everyone receives equal torment is wholly contrary to what the Scripture teaches. God's Word is clear that His judgment is just and righteous and equitable. There is much else you need to receive.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut We agree in this - His judgment is just, righteous, equitable.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer I'm sure we also agree that He's amazingly gracious, wonderful and altogether lovely.
I liked the Superman family of comics when I was a child and it wasn't long after Jesus declared His love for me that I realized: "The truth is greater than fantasy!"
BludBaut 2 months ago
I hesitate to continue because I don't wish to dominate your page, but you need to understand certain key truths that your affections show you don't duly value. If you can hear this, it will help: All truth received is like adding pure water to a dirty pond. The more pure water that's added, the clearer and cleaner the water becomes. Receiving truth is the result of heart cry and desire to be washed of deceit and the lies of this world. There's more truth than we have time. Hunger & thirst 4 it.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut I like your analogy for truth, but it doesn't ring true, spiritually. In Christ we have a fountain of living water springing from within, and we never thirst.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer It's two different images representing two different things. Jesus was representing the life of God flowing from our new man. I was representing the gradual change that occurs in our understanding as truth renews our minds.
BludBaut 2 months ago
On the other hand, it's very easy to see its appeal. It doesn't require one to seek God for wisdom and understanding. Jesus appeared to me and testified to me the day I was born again. He's done many other things such as giving me greater depth of understanding of much Scripture that most Believers and preachers don't have. God didn't choose everyone and He's still loving and just, but reconciling His wrath and His grace (Rom 11:22) REQUIRES hearing and receiving significant revelation from Him.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut I say "require" because to really see that God's love and kindness, which is so far beyond what our natural mind can readily accept, and yet also see His wrath and judgment, and still come away and say, "God isn't worthy of ANY criticism whatsoever!" requires overcoming concepts and perspectives that natural life gives us from our birth and it's also a large part of the agenda of satan to malign our wonderful Lord who "does all things well," "cannot lie" and is "altogether lovely."
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Let me ask you this - when you compare my view with your own, which view demonstrates that Jesus accomplishes His mission as Savior of the world, in His own words, "to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work"? Which view shows that He does this well? Which view proves He cannot lie (every knee will bow, every tongue will confess)? Which view is altogether lovely?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Our judgment of which we prefer isn't the determining factor of truth. The determining factor is the witness of the Spirit which agrees with the Word of God. It's a wrong agenda to look to use truth to justify one's perspective.
It's error to seek to justify what we want to be true; our agenda should be to hear and agree with God. That's one reason God gives me so much revelation -- because I don't have another agenda in seeking truth.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer "when you compare my view with your own,"
I saw from the get go that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Most people do what you've done, which is wrong. They look for evidence to support what they want to believe and depreciate and diminish what "doesn't fit." You've done that with this belief. It's not God.
Your pride is evident in the way you ask your questions. By the very structure of your questions, it's obvious that you're not looking for truth.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Don't forget about verses 23-24! I agree, being reconciled to God requires hearing and receiving. Some are not yet able to hear, though. Why else would Jesus have purposely withheld information? Because some people are not appointed to "get it" in this age.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer "Not forgetting" "extraneous Scripture" or Scripture that "doesn't quite fit" with what our minds tell is "the whole" is part of the key to hearing truth. Most seek to use Scripture to justify their perspective. In doing so they expose their selfish and carnal agenda. Our agenda is to be the same as Jesus' -- to glorify God.
There are many reasons most of us have a lifetime to adjust to truth.
Your last point is true. God does indeed keep truth hidden from many.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer cont. In fact, even those who receive truth are limited for various reasons. One might consider it similarly as learning about people. Some want to learn about people so they can use that information to gain advantage of others. Many want spiritual truth for the same reason. Death to self never ceases to be a truth related to virtually all other truth and many let this go because death to self is maintained by faith and consecration is the motivation for that.
BludBaut 2 months ago
There's so much on YouTube one cannot possibly watch a tenth of a percent of it if one spent all day every day so I knew nothing of you but this video until I looked at your channel and after your response about God's "Plan of the Ages," did I go watch others and was sadly disappointed that you've used natural reasoning rather than the revelation of the Spirit to assess universalism as legitimate. It's simple, it's easy, but it's great error and it doesn't require hearing God. Truth does.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut What is my natural reasoning?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer It's what every person has and is contrary to God 1Cor 2:14.
It's one of those reasons God gives us a lifetime to prove and try and sanctify us. It's just part of why the Scripture says, "He who endures to the end shall be saved." Most Believers don't get any revelation on that verse for years.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Saved from what?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer You're still doing it Alice. You're not looking for truth. You're asking questions to win your point. That's pride and that's NOT the way to get answers from God.
However, I will answer. Salvation is being saved from poverty, sickness and death, is by faith and is the multifaceted redemption prophesied and purchased by Jesus' suffering, death, burial and resurrection. The Greek "sozo" is the equivalent of the Hebrew "shalom" and encompasses all of man's needs.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Why should I look for something I've already found? Jesus said, "I am the truth". Technically, I didn't find the truth, because He found me. If you want to judge the intentions of my heart (pride), then so be it, but I don't recommend it, because you will be judged in the same manner in which you judge others.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer More subterfuge and deceit. You want to be "on top" and do the questioning and control to issues.
Clearly, you don't have enough of a grasp of truth to be able to handle honest disagreement. You've got videos you've made to which you're committed. How would it help you to humble yourself and learn?
Fine. Forget it. Keep telling yourself you're right and camp. It's more comfortable to camp than follow the cloud.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut How can a carnal minded person like yourself even grasp the spiritual truth of Gods promise in scripture.
SwordofManticorE 2 months ago
@SwordofManticorE I believe Matthew 19:26 and I receive from God because my faith pleases him.
Alice's husband can't defend her and neither can God so she needs your help?
I'm sure you've got Scripture for that -- not.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut I fully agree with Matt 19:26, but what does this have to do with Alices husband coming to her defence? From you? Alice doesn't need my help at all. We URs do not act like a pack of wolves coming in to destroy or kill. We bring great news that gives peace, joy and hope. This good news was banished by the RC church by punishment of death.
SwordofManticorE 2 months ago
@SwordofManticorE "We URs do not act like a pack of wolves coming in to destroy or kill."
Really?
Well, you sure fooled me.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut How is it that I have fooled you brother. Have I offended you in anyway? Have I come to destroy or kill something of yours. If anything, I find your accusation towards me as a wolf offensive, but I forgive you brother.
SwordofManticorE 2 months ago
@BludBaut I hear you.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Alice you may not be aware of this but universalismrefuted is Brian Morgen aka gtrjunky. Dont waste a breath on him. He hates the thought of universalism and he hates us URs. Leave it in Gods hands to humble him.
SwordofManticorE 2 months ago
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@SwordofManticorE "Leave it in Gods hands to humble him"
You don't know God very well, do you? Your Bible says it's the goodness of God that leads men to repentance, but you like that Old Testament "Get 'em, God!" mentality.
... and I'm carnal? You need a mirror.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@SwordofManticorE...or perhaps it is a case of "doth protest too much, methinks"? I usually don't shut people out unless God instructs me directly. I can count on one finger the number of people so far.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@SwordofManticorE I have to agree with this line of reasoning. Some people are only looking for a forum to spread the hate and fear that they feel inside themselves. I will no longer debate anything with people like him when they resort to insults in a futile attempt to make thier point. Their hearts are as dark and twisted as thier pagan torture doctrine. When thier fangs come out I will ignore them.
whiskeyfoxpix 2 months ago
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BludBaut 2 months ago
Slanted journalism courtesy of universalism...as usual.
UniversalismRefuted 3 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Thanks for your comments, even though I disagree.
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Slanted journalism why do some people have such a hard on for the idea that an all loving God will torture billions of people for all eternity and never show pity. Does that sound like Jesus????? Overcome evil with good.... or i'll torture you in a lake of fire and never show pity. Turn the other cheek.... or i'll delight in your enless suffering. Blessed are the merciful.... and everybody else gets tormented night and day for all time. What Bible are you reading?
johnanderson777777 3 months ago
@johnanderson777777 No, slanted journalism is when people ignore the facts in favor of what they want to hear pr propogate. Now I'm sure you can run your mouth all day with all of the usual verses ripped out of context but I'm sure that if your lousy life were dependant on it, you couldn't exegete a passage if there was a gun to your head.
UniversalismRefuted 3 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted LOL. You can get as nasty as me, but it doesn't increase learning.
Prov 16:21
BludBaut 3 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Not that he's said anything that suggests he has an ear to hear, but he's very unlikely to want to discuss the matter with you with your harsh demeanor. If you think you have a good handle on the truth that will counter his error, ask the Lord to give you the words and wisdom that will genuinely challenge his perspective.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Do you mean words like "idiot"?
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted ugh bother
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted If I understand your question, then when I use it loosely to describe or label someone who ignorantly and presumptuously assumes things for which they have no basis and they're simply spewing verbose insults, then yes, I mean it, and I am not "rather blessing instead," which is why I included myself in my remark to you. But, also like you, sometimes I'm just not inclined to bless, but rather answer a fool according to his folly. Prov 26:5 Ecc 3:1
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut My comment to the other fellow was fitting because of the foul language that he used to me before. I also have no issue with labeling someone an idiot. The problem is that I thought your comment to me was hypocritical. His previous words were comparable to the term I ascribed.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I tend to see "hypocritical" as carrying with it a blind spot and a superior attitude of "I'm better than that (or you)." I didn't have such an attitude when I spoke to you. I thought of my words as a friend's admonishment, and acknowledged it applied to me also. I think you might want to look again at the situation.
Or not. But Jesus always likes it whenever we make any effort at humility.
IamaFreeWillOffering 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I don't think it was the term so much that stood out to me or others. I think perhaps I didn't communicate as well as I should have. I think it was more an air of that which you accused me that most people saw that I think probably seemed distasteful to them.
And I acknowledge here again, that I do the same thing too much also. So, there I'm leaving myself open to be called a hypocrite once again. :-)
IamaFreeWillOffering 2 months ago
@johnanderson777777 By the way rectal mouth, try and use scripture (in context) to make your point instead of strawmen.
UniversalismRefuted 3 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted When you call someone "rectal mouth," while I agree that you wouldn't want your young daughter to ask what he meant, your response provokes people to think, "self-righteous Pharisee." Have you ever considered that when Jesus hung with the sinners, there is no evidence that he ever criticized their behaviors or attitudes. Even the sermon on the mount was given to His disciples. We need to cultivate sweetness of speech, and I'm including myself.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@johnanderson777777 Your perspective has been dictated to you by the devil and you haven't cared enough to know God to learn His voice so as to be able to discern the enemy of your soul's voice.
I'll say it another way. Unless you learn to hear God speak His Word, you will walk in even greater deception. "Believing the Bible" doesn't mean you have a clue about God. Your words illustrate you lack many clues about God.
BludBaut 3 months ago
@johnanderson777777 Your assessment of some people's perspective might be had by the wicked, but it is not the orthodox perspective of those who reject universalism. You lack light and your strong bent to promote and defend what you think, keeps you from hearing God's truth. You're not honoring God by thinking you have the final answer on the matter. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. There's a wealth of truth you don't see that won't support your view.
BludBaut 2 months ago
Very serious error at 4:40, saying that "God's will can be thwarted" is a contradiction of Ephesians 1:11. That's extremely poor exegesis. That statement of five words (not even referencing the new birth or the wider subject of salvation) is in no way a contradiction of Eph.1:11.
Underlining "foreordained, all things and His will" suggests an overarching, all-encompassing doctrine of God's control, which is an opinion ONLY and not something the text unquestionably requires.
911dispatcher 3 months ago
@911dispatcher I don't understand. Are you saying God is not in control?
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer Are you saying that when evil men rape four year old children, God is behind it?
911dispatcher 3 months ago
@911dispatcher If you answer my question, I'll answer yours. :)
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer I think you missed the point. My question should be considered rhetorical, because anyone who believes that God is only good, though has a right to judge all men, would never ascribe evil to God.
Your ilk lack wisdom just as the ilk on the polar opposite does. Both of you refuse to seek God because neither of you have any confidence that God will speak. You're probably right because he resists the proud and you're both proud of your obnoxious polarization.
BludBaut 3 months ago
@BludBaut You answered my plain-spoken, matter-of-fact question with a rhetorical question. And then you say I missed the point. Do you think that if a person says "God is in control" that this person is calling God evil? I'm not playing "obnoxious polarization" games. It's just a question, asked humbly, because I am trying to understand what you are saying. I'm not Calvinist or Arminian, although I do agree with some of the teachings of those two views.
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer I understand. After I read some of your remarks and looked at your page, I saw that you are more thoughtful, with a more genuine heart than most, which is why I left my second remark. I think that people who say, "God is in control" haven't given enough thought to what they are saying or they would never say it because it's misleading. God is in control of everything about which He wants to be in control. He does not control many things. I think you know this. Bless you
BludBaut 3 months ago
@BludBaut Things that appear to be out of God's control are actually under God's control, but our limited linear perspective keeps us from understanding why the worst horrors are permitted by God. We don't have a clear picture, because we exist in the present, and we only have the ability to make judgments about the past. The future is a mystery to us, but it is not a mystery to God, Who can take the rape of a four-yr-old child and cause even this to conform to His Plan of the Ages.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
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@AliceSpicer I didn't tell you much, but what I did say, you obviously didn't receive, yet I told you the truth. There is NO Scripture that says, "God is in control" (implying that He's in control of everything). It's a man made doctrine because men, thinking they're believing the Bible, ASSUME He's in control of everything because of the limited understanding they have of what they see in the Word. Nevertheless, it's not hard to see that God does not control everything.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer The Word says that God does whatsoever He pleases. Our understanding of His wisdom is severely limited but it's ludicrous to suggest that God wanted Lucifer to rebel so that the present scenario could take place. To say God controls everything IS saying that God wanted the devil's rebellion and all the calamity that has ensued.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Your "explanation" is very faulty. It embraces a philosophy that rejects much of what the Scriptures teach about our responsibilities. There were many reasons Jesus said, "When the Son of man comes, will He find faith on the earth." There is an exceptionally large part of the body of Christ that attributes the evil you suggested to be God's doing while dismissing the failures of men to embrace the promises of God. "We trust in God when we don't understand," cont.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Have you ever seen the Ren and Stimpy episode called "Space Madness"?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer I never could bear more than a moment of Ren and Stimpy. Always wondered why anyone would make the effort to make it and why anyone would watch it.
That's just candor... not to be critical.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut There's one particular episode, I think it is called Space Madness, where Stimpy is put in charge of guarding the shiny red button (history eraser button) - he's warned not to push it. As if his inherent curiosity is not temptation enough, the narrating announcer enters the scene, becoming a tempter. It reminds me very much of the tree of life scene in Eden. God created fallible people and put them in a situation where they would be tempted. He knew exactly what He was doing.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Which violates your concept of God's saving everyone. If it was God's agenda to make all men fall so that He could redeem them all, then, among other things, He's a sadistic voyeur, but God is wholly good.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut How does naming God's plan - "for God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness" - make God a sadistic voyeur? What I understand from this is that He puts His glory in clay jars so that we know it is not our own glory. He lets us screw up so (sin and die) so that we learn that He (not us) is the One Who holds all things together, the source of life, the light of HIS glory becomes more obvious to us than if we never had the contrasting picture.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer It seems you're applying a metaphorical truth to the wrong scenario. The tree of life isn't illustrated in God's shutting up all under sin. Give supporting Scripture for that opinion if you can.
Now, if I took you off-topic, why did you let me? Pull me back until you make and defend your point.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer cont2 can be statements that are polar opposites. It can be a statement of faith, because indeed, we are in the dark about many things, but it can also be religious nonsense masquerading as faith when the real issue was our failure to adequately prepare spiritually for the warfare in front of us accompanied by a hard heart that wouldn't hear the wooing, correction nor discipline of the Spirit of God.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer I feel compelled to refute your lie. You've effectually testified that all things are controlled by God. True or false? If false, then please nail it down where, as clearly as you're able to explain it, there is no confusion, please.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer I again want to praise you for your kind words about your husband. They touched my heart. I was married for seventeen years. I wish I had had a wife like you. I've now been divorced for 21 years and my wife did such a job on me that I can't imagine I'll marry again.
BludBaut 3 months ago
@BludBaut Refresh my memory - what did I say about my husband and when?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer On your channel comments you said that after 17 years of marriage, he was amazing and interesting. I thought I left a comment on your channel but I have sometimes left a page before hitting "send."
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Oh, okay. Sorry I thought I made husband comments on this video comment section, but you are talking about the channel.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Yeah, but because dishonoring men and husbands has been such a strong agenda for so many decades in this country, I always appreciate when I hear what I perceive to be sincere honor for men and especially husbands. As I'm fairly confident that you probably know, women's lib' foundation is contempt for husbands.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Perhaps some women involved in women's lib have contempt for their husbands or husbands in general, but a lot of good has come from women's lib, too.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer You rejected Scripture with that remark. Jesus said, "make the tree good and its fruit good or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for a tree is known by its fruit."
Women's lib has bred rebellion. Take a closer look at the "great mystery" of Christ and His Church and the typology therein hidden in the husband/wife relationship. Where are we authorized to rebel against Jesus, or second guess Him, or improve on His agenda, or violate His will because we want ours?
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut You don't believe that women should have equal legal rights?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer You always ask questions with a revealing hook. Doesn't your character suggest to you that that is not right?
Husband and wife is the typology of the "great" mystery of Christ and Church. Is the Church equal to Christ or is One always Lord over the other.
That could give you your answer if you wanted it to, but I suspect you don't like that answer and find it incomplete also.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Also, your hypocrisy is showing. You required me to answer a question, when I had previously asked you to examine something. You ignored my request and pointedly implied that I should answer your question and now again, you ignore my point and ask a new question. Jesus is equitable but you are not.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer "Perhaps some"? You obviously haven't done your homework on the foundation of the movement.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut I just finished a humanities course and a literary course with emphasis in examining literature in light of the feminine movement, so I have a decent idea of what I'm talking about.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer You don't have the time to do an exhaustive examination, for rebellion is too popular for you to have covered all the literature.
So did you just simply miss the contempt Friedan showed in her home group meeting the night she decided to make a movement out of this hatred or did you avoid it because it wasn't that palatable to try to join it with Christian virtue?
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut I haven't joined any movement. I've made observations about how women's lives have improved because they are no longer being treated like property or pets.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Did it altogether escape your notice how the New Testament apostles preferred referring to themselves as slaves of Christ even though God's revelation made us joint-heirs? Have you EVER spent time meditating on this? Also, in this scenario, we're STILL on the same mystery and the implication shouldn't need my explanation. No or yes?
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Regardless of whether it's "no" or "yes," I hope by this time your conscience has engaged and reproved you for your lack of equity in refusing to deal with issues I raise while twisting questions to get me to say what you want me to.
This is an important issue and is why many men don't like discussions with women. Men are rational and when the heat is on, women tend to resort to emotional rhetoric to avoid dealing with facts they don't want to acknowledge.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Though you're not resorting to emotional rhetoric (yet), you continue to ignore my cogent and salient points while you continue to make points by the way you structure questions. I'm disappointed to find that once again, equitability isn't your strong suit. Please assure me you'll correct this. I'm unwilling to bear this inequity much longer.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut My reasoning is simple. If we're both born again and love God, we should have koinonia and the love of the truth should be our common standard and never one-upmanship. So far, the effort at commonality of truth seems to be mostly mine. My agenda is to exalt God and His Word and I still learn from all sorts of sources. I have no problem hearing or seeing truth from a pagan or one wrapped in darkness. Was not God's speaking through an ass illustrative of our need of humility?
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer If you're trying to understand, then why haven't you done what I asked and then addressed it?
BludBaut 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Disclaimer: I don't abide on this page (haven't even read much of it) and forget the significant errors I found with the video, so my remarks might not really apply to you. I could have assumed, because your question left you wide open to being assumed to be a Calvinist, and that's what provoked my answer. However, you might be more thoughtful than Calvinists, who are more thoughtful than Arminians.
I see God's humor and wisdom in His abundance of paradoxes.
BludBaut 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer My words were not difficult to understand. I suggest you go back to the spot on the video I referenced, examine why I referenced Eph. 1:11 and look at my words more carefully and I think you will understand.
If you genuinely cannot follow, then I will help, but it seems like you're completely uninterested in what I was communicating. Once again, that testifies, "I know the truth. I don't need to learn."
BludBaut 2 months ago
You believe that ETERNITY is temporal? Eternal is the implication of the Bible.
The second death, to be permanently deprived from Gods spirit. Pernanently seperated FOREVER.
paskettle 3 months ago
@paskettle Yes, and with good reason.
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer How would you explain the second death. What does the Bible mean when its states Eternal torment.? Rev 13:11, Mrk 9:44,45,46.
I rreally dont understand why the need to derail Gods word when states "eternal", or "torment", or the worm "canker"doth not die. How do you explain away this part of Gods word?
Is it not the entire 66 books that are Holy inspired of God
In your personal faith, is it necessary to water baptise, and spirit infilling?
paskettle 3 months ago
@paskettle How can I address/define/clarify the meaning of second death, eternal torment, 4 proof texts, the worm, the sola scriptura, personal faith, water baptism, and spirit-infilling in 500 characters or less? Try watching some of my other vids, in which you will find some of the answers to your questions, and then if you still have questions, ask one specific question at a time. This would be the most productive use of our time. Thanks for commenting, though.
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer You just spent 500 characters telling me why you couldnt respond to one of the points.
Which is a very good point indeed. The Bible is fairly clear, there is nothing secure eternally except for the blood of Christ. Nothing predistined except for the Judgement seat of Christ.
Its our profession of failth and adherring to his Holy scriptures gives access to the eternal heaven. 24:13 HE that endures to the end shall be saved. Calvinism is an exclusive religious philosophy.
paskettle 3 months ago
@paskettle 24:13 saved from what
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer Are you familiar with the Bible, or just church a particular church philosophy?
Saved from a Devils Hell, eternal torment, the lake of fire, the worm that dieth not. Permanently absent from Gods presence, perpetual, ceaseless, without end.
People that espouse a temporary Hell experience are really saying, "the torment in Hell is okay, becuase everyone would be released at a later date, and that would prove God's love for man". Through the cross God already proved his love.
paskettle 3 months ago
@paskettle I'm more familiar with fundamental Baptist beliefs than other denominations or religions, because of my upbringing. I don't attend church, I am the church. I am a student of the word, but I am a disciple of the Good Shepherd 1st. I think that when you say "saved" and I say "saved" we are actually talking about two different ideas. In my opinion, scripture teaches the work of the Cross "saves" us from sin and death, and then there are other ways that we are saved, apart from this.
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
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@AliceSpicer
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
get acquainted with your text book
theblueteam10 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer You're not sounding a clear message. Granted, misunderstanding is easy, but I did watch some of your other videos and you definitely present a universalist's perspective that God is not going to punish the wicked. Here your words clearly suggest that you believe He will. "Trumpet, clear sound..." remember those words?
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut I do believe there are consequences for our actions, for both believers and unbelievers. God will judge everyone. Some people (believers) have a head start in this by submitting to His judgment daily. Yes, there is judgment. God responds appropriately to willful disobedience, hateful and evil deeds, etc. "Everyone will be salted with fire."
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer You're not suggesting that you understand the difference between child rearing and wrath. Your brief explanation greatly muddies the very significant difference the Bible presents.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Have you ever experienced wrath as a parent? Wasn't it kept in check by your love? Are we any better than God in this manner?
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@AliceSpicer Once again your inequity appears by your refusing to address my point but asking me to address yours. I will do this last one as a good faith gesture and remind you of my previous remarks.
No, I haven't. That's not to say I can't imagine it in some people's lives. For instance, if one's child has very unreasonably murdered, I could understand the parent feeling wrathful, but frankly you still show you don't understand the difference between child rearing and wrath.
BludBaut 2 months ago
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Apo 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Efesios6141 3 months ago
@Efesios6141 I'll call that a drive-by scripture-shooting :)
AliceSpicer 3 months ago
@AliceSpicer Your remark doesn't specify whether you believe the lake of fire is really a lake of fire and not simply a picturesque image of a deceptive idea that God wants to use to deceive people with a lie, which God says he cannot do.
BludBaut 2 months ago
@BludBaut Do I think it is a literal fire? No. I think the word fire is used because of the qualities it shares with God's glory.
AliceSpicer 2 months ago
@BludBaut Your comments of being deceived by Satan for believing in Universal Salvation is very typical of people who watch TV and believe those televangelist fear mongers. Fact the Bible you're reading is a translation from Greek to Latin to English. Fact the word Aion means Age not eternity. Fact the earliest Christians believed everyone would be saved in their proper order. Stop listening to every scary sounding story you hear.
johnanderson777777 2 months ago
@johnanderson777777 I laugh at idiots like you who think everyone is the stereotypical religious fruitcake who you're going to impress with your pseudo-knowledge.
I've been hearing God's voice since before you were born. You need to meet the living God and quit patting yourself on the back for being so smart. Those aren't the people who get God's ear, or who hear Him.
BludBaut 2 months ago
Apo 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Apo_20:15 Y el que no fue hallado escrito en el libro de la vida fue lanzado en el lago de fuego.
Efesios6141 3 months ago
I kept expecting Calvin to grab Arminius by the throat and tie him to a stake and set him on fire -- other than that distraction, great video. ;) Thanks!
CindyinSouthDakota 3 months ago
@CindyinSouthDakota ha ha! funny
AliceSpicer 3 months ago