Debate: Socialism and Democracy

[Stoutcylinder]

cuba failed lol

[maya13262002]

I highly recommend to you Todd to go and buy a ticket to Cuba or China and live there for a year not less and then when you come back to US, I like to see on how you feel about Socialism.

It is very easy to talk about shit that you have never experienced. Since I have lived in Russia and know what communism is like, I can without a doubt say that you are an idiot.

[blahblahblah8183]

The question isnt dictatorship vs elected gov, but rather the class character of the state (in whose precise interests). There have been good dictators and awful elected leaders, and vice versa. No socialist ever said their system was utopian, or perfect. Where's the capitalist 'paradise' of freedom and prosperity blah blah?

Jesus (in whose name the worst has been committed) said, he who is without sin, throw the first stone. Workers council over corporate boardrooms any day!!

[UDSS]

The Workers World Party defended the soviet invasion of 1956 in Hungary. They would sure defend the brutal suppression of the 1968 revolution in Czechoslovakia. Marxist Leninists still defending the Stalinist terror crimes of the Soviet Union.

I would ask about the freedom of speech in those communist ( stalinist ) states, and their so called peoples democracy. How long does it takes for those Marxist Leninists to learn the truth about their socialist paradise.

[MrRedFredSaid]

@UDSS -

OK, so something bad happened. Something bad that Socialists did or approved of. So socialism is bad. The US was founded by slaveowners, who approved of slave ownership. So does that mean the US is bad?

[JohnR22926]

Jesus wept! The memories of the murders and the gulags have faded a bit, so here's a new generation...seduced by the age-old utopianist claptrap. Marxism was tried extensively in the 20th century and the results were the same everywhere: catastrophic failure.

And don't try the old canard that "the USSR wasn't REALLY marxism". Yes it was.

At some point, one must admit that a turd is in fact a turd, no matter how beautiful (utopianist) the theory.

Marxism = totalitarianism. Period!

[KillWoundedEatDead]

you are a fucking moron workers democratically controlling the means of production is not totalitarianism. you have been brainwashed by capitalist propaganda. since when does socialism require a dictator? in fact if you have a dictator it isnt socialism.

capitalism = oppression PERIOD

[JohnR22926]

kill: first of all you're 20 yrs old. My paperboy has more experience in the real world than you do. So...get yourself an education, a job, a family, and come see me in 20 yrs. You'll have flushed the marxist turd by that time.

You need to read my post again. Marxism was tried in USSR/China/Cambodia/Cuba/Vietn­am/Eastern Europe in the 20th century. Same result in EVERY instance. So my point is you cannot apply Marxism and expect a different result. Get it? Got it?

[KillWoundedEatDead]

hahaha repeating what you hear on the rush limbaugh show doesnt constitute an education dumbass.

Marxism was tried in "USSR/China/Cambodia/Cuba/Viet­nam/Eastern Europe in the 20th century. Same result in EVERY instance."

theres your lack of education right there numbnuts. what does small governmnet with democratic ownership of the means of production have to do with any of those countries? and the russia was much better off as the ussr anyway.

[crocve]

@KillWoundedEatDead You are a big fucking idiot, my friend.

Just because communists say they defend the workers, that doesn´t means they are automatically democratic.

Communism as dictactors: Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim-Il Sung and all their sucessors controlled their countries with iron fist.

The workers do not controll anything. It is the state who controlls everything. The workers controlling the means of production is a false and vague idea.

[DEVRIMCI2007]

marxism has got nothing to do with what happened in Stalin's Russia: it's like blaming Jesus Christ for the Inquisition in Spain.

[wikicross]

I really wish you would have lived at least a year under a communist regime.You really can't understand the terror of watching what you say, and to whom you say it.

I do recommend to you "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. Watch the cartoons if you don't have the time.

[DEVRIMCI2007]

I have read Animal Farm ,which kind of communism are u talking about the want that has not been created or the one in degenerated workers state ? by the way george orwell was socialist

[wikicross]

If my memory serves me right, Marx said that the capitalists would not relinquish their power and wealth by free will. A violent revolution would be needed, in fact, if we are to believe Marx, it would be inevitable. So tell me, are you ready to see your hands dirty with the blood of capitalists? I am a romanian.When the communists took power in 1947, aided by the USSR, they killed or arrested every banker, intellectual, liberal, conservative, you name it..anyone who was not "progressive" enough

[DEVRIMCI2007]

Want marx said was not to kill the capitalists what he meant was to opress the bourguiose in loosing its power(bourguiose ideas) AFTER the socialist state is created,Yes you are right about USSR it is imperalistic system,it has done wrong things,you see socialism and stalinism has the samething, socialism is where the majority controll the forces of production,laws,policies made by the people for the people.