id also like to point out that not only does thorndike's puzzlebox get different results to most other tests done on birds... but proof is in the pudding with dogs... wit people teaching dogs tricks
You just keep bringing up points I disproved over and over. dogs who will do it out of loyalty or emotional reassurance, cats do not see the point of doing them without a direct benefit, but they can and have been taught to do all the same tricks and more.
dogs will learn it because they can and can quite easily. CATS on the other hand wont understand and they are simply harder to train because their stupid animals!
if it takes a CIRCUS to train a cat than im pretty sure thats really saying a lot about cats.
Dogs can't be toilet trained because they are stupid. They also can't complete Thorndike puzzle boxes, because they are stupid. Left to natural selection, k9s would be of gone extinct, the feline gene is superior in many way. Cats are almost always ranked above dogs and birds in all scientific communities.
the end result, you haven't disproved anything, your only example of anything is one TEST box which any moron could see the obvious flaw in. admit it, your completely stuck for an argument...
Sorry, but if i'm going to choose between a highly respected scientist or some tard descended from crooks and convicts who makes youtube poop videos, i'm going to go with the American scientist. Home of the greatest minds in science.
i have NO idea where you got the plural from because you'd find that its the scientists who are DISAGREEING with YOU, the scientists and animal experts are the ones saying that crows are smarter than cats!
Also, it has been proven by a lot of different tests that birds are smart. cats aren't as smart as dogs or birds, thats been proven over and over and over again. why do you keep coming back here, its just going to cause people to laugh at you
Crows are ranked lower than cats, dogs squirrels, and pigs. Parrots aren't even on the list. The ONLY indication of intelligence from crows is they fashion tools from twigs, The birds are born with a tool-making ethic, but they hone their craft by watching their elders, a sign of higher intelligence. A sign, not proof.
maybe because its SMARTER than cats, as for the making of a tool, id say thats PROOF of intelligence, but hey, what would the scientists, writers know about animals?
let me also point out that a crow is a bird, just in case you didn't know that, because your previous arguments about me excluding the crow have been pretty stupid
The first link listed cats above dogs, and pigs above both of them stating: "They are perhaps the smartest, cleanest domestic animals known more so than cats and dogs, according to some experts. Pigs were trained to move a cursor on a video screen with their snouts and used the cursor to distinguish between scribbles they knew and those they were seeing for the first time. They learned the task as quickly as chimpanzees."
As you can see, memory is very much a part of judging intelligence.
Yes problem solving tasks do provide a more accurate result. If only there were some kind of a test... a puzzle of some sort..... that we could put both animals through to test their cognitive thinking process... hmmmm...........
That is simply their instinct, just like they don't fly south for the winter because they are smart, learn the difference between intelligence and instinct. No other animal—not even a chimp—has ever spontaneously solved a problem like this, a fact that puts crows in a class with us as toolmakers. Holding a stick does not equate to intelligence.
no, but bending it or creating a tool out of it to accomplish something is proof of intelligence. animals without intelligence can't build tools to solve problems, it's kind of sad that i have to point out something so obvious to you
cat's aren't like stupid dogs man, you can't keep them caged in, they are curious and need to explore. forget about property man, we all live on the same planet and we need to share and take care of one another. so fuck you.
Also, cat brains have been shown to be more similar to human brains than other domesticated animals. the physical structure of human brains and that of cats are very similar; they have the same lobes in the cerebral cortex (the "seat" of intelligence) as humans do. Human brains also function the same way, conveying data via identical neurotransmitters. Cats learn by trial and error, observation and imitation, recalling information much longer than dogs. Enjoy ur fail :)
so what? a lot of animals can learn by trial and error! i can teach my dog to sit, stay, jump, roll, fetch and all sorts of other things!
cats, well i'd say next to nothing!
your argument is pretty fail, in fact id say its epic fail, please refrain from being epic fail in the future!
But the main point in topic here is that these irresponsible pet owners let their cats run out onto other peoples property's, making that pet everyone else's problem!
Oh yeah? Well have you ever seen a dog trained to use the toilet? No. They aren't coordinate or smart enough. That's a hell of a lot better than those useless tricks your dog does. Which cats have also been trained to do by the way, it is just much harder, as unlike dogs who will do it out of loyalty or emotional reassurance, cats do not see the point of doing them without a direct benefit, because they are that smart.
Cats placed in Thorndike's puzzle boxes surpass dogs greatly. In these boxes, cats must manipulate series of levers in order to escape. They initially achieve this by trial and error, before committing the sequence to memory. . They also use memory to reduce the amount of trial and error when encountering comparable novel situations e.g. new puzzle boxes.
As for cats trespassing on your property, in what way is that a problem? They will exterminate rodents and garden pests.
What they do is exterminate birds that i feed on my front lawn!
how is that a good thing!
Also, i haven't seen to many cats being taught tricks, you can't generalize a whole species on the results of one single test that may or may not have been done a multitude of times, the results of that particular test prove very little.
I already explained to you, cats are harder to teach tricks because they are smarter. unlike dogs who will do it out of loyalty or emotional reassurance, cats do not see the point of doing them without a direct benefit.
That doesn't prove there smarter at all, if you can't teach a cat things it would in fact make it dumber. the only thing you have managed to prove is that cats have a better sense of direction and LESS intelligence
You can teach them those things though, A good example of this is The Yuri Kuklachev Cat Theatre based in Moscow , the owner of which has been training cats for many years to do a full range of circus style tricks. Like dogs and people, many cats have active minds that thrive on stimulation, exploration and learning.
The difference is they are less willing to do them because they aren't retarded little followers looking for an alpha male to tell them what to do.
Maybe your birds are the one you should keep caged up. If any of your stupid birds fly on to my property my cats take them out for being loud and annoying.
the hell with going to the authorities!!personally i would lie in wait for her then drag her sorry ass into my house for a little lesson on how to treat those that are smaller and weaker.maybe a hydrochloric douche?a couple of tablespoons of draino down the throat.any more ideas out there?
sadistlittlepuppy, Do you live in this town and know this person? I am curious. Also somebody called her "chink lady" and said she eats cat with worcestire sauce. Are you making this up?
Ok. Well I hope ya'll take better care of your cats and that maybe if she must trap them, yall can agree on a way to pick them up. Do you mean to be Saddest Little Puppy or is it deliberately mispelled because of the name being taken?
Why not just not trap it, and let it walk home? If you really don't want it on your property (why would you care?) just yell at it and scare it off. It's not hard to scare a cat off.
If i had a bird and they grew up with a bird, they would have no interest in hunting them. If i had the opportunity, i would of done that. but i wouldn't want a bird, because you have to keep them caged up most of the time or clip their wings which is mean. If i could have a chill bird that could go outside like all birds want to, but came back on it's own, like a cat, then it would be cool.
i have a bird, its a peach face and its wings aren't clipped, it starts squawking madly at 4pm each day to let me know that its time to let it out of its cage. it then fly's around, usually sleeps on my shoulder and sometimes plays in plastic bags (with my supervision, i wouldn't let it suffocate or anything) and chews up paper. i can clap my hands loudly 4 times and it will respond with a certain chirp, i can do it several times, *4claps* *chirp* *4claps* *Chirp*
It thinks your hand claps are another bird call because it's stupid. when a cat meows it does it for a reason, it actually has something to communicate to you.
Tell me why do you keep it in a cage? Is it cause it's too wild and stupid to not shit all over the house and wreck shit? Yeah thought so.
it wouldn't survive in the wild because it fucking sucks and is dumb. i bet it chirps at the window begging for freedom too. that is if you even let it fly in a room with windows, it would probably fly into it.
thats just about the stupidest justification i have EVER heard. where talking about intelligence, not strength. if you wish to count "Lions" in this debate about intelligence, then so be it.
I wouldn't wish to do that because it would be completely retarded. Lions are smarter than birds right? So that means cats must be smarter than birds! That is your argument put into perspective. Realize the idiocy yet?
Birds don't have an elaborate cerebral cortex, therefore their day-to-day functioning was believed to be strictly based on their genetic programming, making them almost robotic in nature. Birdbrain.
and yet they can be taught to repeat words, taught to make noises, taught where food is, knows who it likes and who it doesn't, and can SOLVE PROBLEMS (yes, birds have problem solving ability, didn't you know that? it is a PROVEN FACT)
i have never ever seen a cat with problem solving ability
What kind of problem solving? Everything you mentioned is "for the birds". (common slang for stupid) cats possess visual memory ability comparable to that of monkeys. the physical structure of human brains and that of cats are very similar; they have the same lobes in the cerebral cortex (the "seat" of intelligence) as humans do. Human brains also function the same way, conveying data via identical neurotransmitters. Cat's can complete Thorndike puzzle boxes. Birds can not.
A) although a cat may have the same visual memory as a monkey, this does not in fact indicate intelligence. In terms of actual intelligence the raven is in the same class as the chimpanzee and the dolphin, no cat in the world is within the same class of intelligence
search up intelligent birds of youtube where a raven actually makes a tool to complete an experiment (something a cat wouldn't be able to do)
Visual memory is a part of intelligence. One of the very things that defines intelligence, and is part of how we determine the difference between intelligence and basic instinct.
Cats have been known to invent tools also, not that that means anything, even naked molerats create and use tools.
and no, memory does NOT necessarily define intelligence, problem solving skills however are indicators of intelligence.
it is a proven fact that in fact, even squirrels AND Dogs are smarter than cats. but rather than you take my word for it, im going to send you a PM with a link
it could be argued thorndlike puzzle box isn't a sufficient or even valid test, as cats are naturally playful. it can be argued thorndlike's design of the puzzleboxes gave the cats bits and pieces to play with where things that effectively lead to their escape. theres more than one flaw in the logic of thorndlike puzzle box
Yes, that could be argued, if you're a retard. The fact is it is undisputed in the scientific community as Dr Thorndike is respected today for many contributions to the science of intelligence not just the Thorndike box. In these boxes, cats must manipulate series of levers in order to escape. They initially achieve this by trial and error, before committing the sequence to memory. They also use memory to reduce the amount of trial and error when encountering comparable situations, dogs do not.
actually, that could be seriously argued... praying on an animals playful nature to prove intelligence is not a valid scientific experiment and could at any time be disputed.
committing the sequence of memory? once again, memory doesn't make up intelligence!
If your argument had any validity to it, you could change the face of science. There were opposing views while Thorndike was alive. But today, his work is unchallenged and unanimous accepted by scientists. But who cares what scientists think, i'm sure some idiot making youtube poop videos can change their mind!
thorndikes puzzle box is one experiment (that is flawed)
Check those links i told you about
also search intellegent bird and tell me where you have seen cats doing half the shit those birds do. it has been PROVEN that birds have greater problem solving ability than cats.
Were also talking about lovebirds, from the Psittacidae family. Not ravens, from the Corvidae family. Try applying your own logic to yourself some time.
In general, meaning on average, felines are smarter. Even if the crow wasn't the average birdbrain, that would be a rarity in the bird species not a generality. Thus, even if the raven is smarter than cats, (which it isn't) in GENERAL (i.e. on average) cats would still be smarter.
Not really, other birds have proven signs of high intelligence too, there are other lists (where the cat doesn't even make it on) that puts certain birds even higher than crows and ravens
Many birds follow strict time schedules in their activities. These are often dependent upon environmental cues. Birds also are sensitive to daylight length, and this awareness is especially important as a cue for migratory species. The ability to orient themselves during migrations is attributed to birds' superior sensory abilities, rather than to intelligence.
You can't tell me that it letting me know it wants to come out isn't a sign of intelligence. it also has ways of pointing out other things, like when its hungry or thirsty, evidently a sentient being of no intelligence couldn't do that!
and wile it is true that birds generally don't come back to the owner if let outside, it doesn't mean they should be let outside anyway. even if your bird could fly away and return to your house each day, why would you let it out?
you risk it getting shot, eaten by a cat, run over by a car, mauled by a dog and even kidnapped by someone along with a whole lot of other dangerous possibilities. its really not worth the risk!
That's fucking sick, i bet you keep birds imprisoned in your house. They wouldn't come back because they don't want to come back to you, they want to be free.
and yet the bird somehow remembers the time it wants to get out, remembers who it likes and who it doesn't... it also knows where the food is located, so its got nothing to do with memory, your argument's up to this point have been 100% flawed so just stop, seriously
and yet, it can remember things quite well. domestic birds can repeat words and noises and sometimes even short sentences, it remembers who it likes and in the case of my bird, when its time to come out of its cage...
"She is laying traps in her backyard, catching neighbors cats and poisoning them or releasing them into the wild."
If you want to jail people for animal crimes, chew on this: If your rotten cat gets trapped in her backyard (looks like humane traps anyways) then shouldn't you be charged with trespassing or negligence or something? She's probably sick of stray cats in her yard.
poor cats :(
hm940733 2 years ago
I heard cat and chicken blood gets you high, and they don't test for it.
fedtheend 2 years ago
This guy is sick !
EmotionalNews 2 years ago
stray cats are a bother, and stupid people act like they are some holy cows, untouchable.
naughty00e 2 years ago
they are untouchable cause theyre so fast and smart. cats are the best predators that walk the earth no doubt fuck dogs
RicoSuave897 2 years ago
Wow you guys are serious aren't you?
Sadistlitlepuppy 2 years ago
id also like to point out that not only does thorndike's puzzlebox get different results to most other tests done on birds... but proof is in the pudding with dogs... wit people teaching dogs tricks
CakeMace 2 years ago
You just keep bringing up points I disproved over and over. dogs who will do it out of loyalty or emotional reassurance, cats do not see the point of doing them without a direct benefit, but they can and have been taught to do all the same tricks and more.
randall642 2 years ago
See that is crap.
dogs will learn it because they can and can quite easily. CATS on the other hand wont understand and they are simply harder to train because their stupid animals!
if it takes a CIRCUS to train a cat than im pretty sure thats really saying a lot about cats.
CakeMace 2 years ago
Dogs can't be toilet trained because they are stupid. They also can't complete Thorndike puzzle boxes, because they are stupid. Left to natural selection, k9s would be of gone extinct, the feline gene is superior in many way. Cats are almost always ranked above dogs and birds in all scientific communities.
randall642 2 years ago
Okay, once again you have proved yourself to be a complete and utter retard
dogs CAN be toilet trained, what wild rediculous incorrect claim are you going to make next?
maybe you will claim a dog can't be taught to sit or rollover?
you really should do some actual research before coming here and posting absurd, stupid and outright incorrect comments.
Dogs and birds are ranked higher in terms of intelligence than cats are!
CakeMace 2 years ago
the end result, you haven't disproved anything, your only example of anything is one TEST box which any moron could see the obvious flaw in. admit it, your completely stuck for an argument...
CakeMace 2 years ago
Sorry, but if i'm going to choose between a highly respected scientist or some tard descended from crooks and convicts who makes youtube poop videos, i'm going to go with the American scientist. Home of the greatest minds in science.
randall642 2 years ago
What?
i have NO idea where you got the plural from because you'd find that its the scientists who are DISAGREEING with YOU, the scientists and animal experts are the ones saying that crows are smarter than cats!
CakeMace 2 years ago
Every legitimate source I can find ranks them lower.
randall642 2 years ago
Really?
funny how my legitimate sources actually exist and yours are completely imaginary and fictional, right?
CakeMace 2 years ago
id say a multitude of experiments on birds intelligence outdoes 1 experiment.
CakeMace 2 years ago
Birds aren't emotional like cats, dogs, elephants, and monkeys. this is proven. they are stupid.
randall642 2 years ago
Really, so lovebirds aren't emotional?
bullshit, that has NEVER been proven
Also, it has been proven by a lot of different tests that birds are smart. cats aren't as smart as dogs or birds, thats been proven over and over and over again. why do you keep coming back here, its just going to cause people to laugh at you
CakeMace 2 years ago
Crows are ranked lower than cats, dogs squirrels, and pigs. Parrots aren't even on the list. The ONLY indication of intelligence from crows is they fashion tools from twigs, The birds are born with a tool-making ethic, but they hone their craft by watching their elders, a sign of higher intelligence. A sign, not proof.
randall642 2 years ago
And yet its ranks better than cats, i wonder why?
maybe because its SMARTER than cats, as for the making of a tool, id say thats PROOF of intelligence, but hey, what would the scientists, writers know about animals?
let me also point out that a crow is a bird, just in case you didn't know that, because your previous arguments about me excluding the crow have been pretty stupid
CakeMace 2 years ago
It doesn't rank better than cats, it ranks below cats. Look it up. PIGS rank above crows.
randall642 2 years ago
you do realize number 1 on the list is humans right?
6 is crows
8 is dogs
9 is cats
CakeMace 2 years ago
if iIm so wrong about birds having more intelligence than cats, why is it generally accepted by the scientific community that I'm right!
Go and google "smartest animals"
look at the first link that pops up...
CakeMace 2 years ago
The first link listed cats above dogs, and pigs above both of them stating: "They are perhaps the smartest, cleanest domestic animals known more so than cats and dogs, according to some experts. Pigs were trained to move a cursor on a video screen with their snouts and used the cursor to distinguish between scribbles they knew and those they were seeing for the first time. They learned the task as quickly as chimpanzees."
As you can see, memory is very much a part of judging intelligence.
randall642 2 years ago
memory is hardly a valid way of testing somthings intelligence, a problem solving task however provides a far more accurate result.
but as it seems you read those lists, funny how cats seemed to trail behind!
CakeMace 2 years ago
Yes problem solving tasks do provide a more accurate result. If only there were some kind of a test... a puzzle of some sort..... that we could put both animals through to test their cognitive thinking process... hmmmm...........
randall642 2 years ago
easy, put a test through the same one as that crow did, lets see if the cat can make the appropriate tool!
CakeMace 2 years ago
That is simply their instinct, just like they don't fly south for the winter because they are smart, learn the difference between intelligence and instinct. No other animal—not even a chimp—has ever spontaneously solved a problem like this, a fact that puts crows in a class with us as toolmakers. Holding a stick does not equate to intelligence.
randall642 2 years ago
no, but bending it or creating a tool out of it to accomplish something is proof of intelligence. animals without intelligence can't build tools to solve problems, it's kind of sad that i have to point out something so obvious to you
CakeMace 2 years ago
GOOD
maybe cat owners will keep their pets on their own property and not be so irresponsible
i applaud that womans actions
CakeMace 2 years ago
cat's aren't like stupid dogs man, you can't keep them caged in, they are curious and need to explore. forget about property man, we all live on the same planet and we need to share and take care of one another. so fuck you.
randall642 2 years ago
WRONG
first of all, dogs are a hell of alot smarter than cats, you can teach a dog tricks, a cat, i don't think so!
cats don't need to "Explore" and they should be kept in cages if their outside, otherwise they should be kept inside.
not everyone should have to put up with flea infested useless shitbag's coming on to their properties
its retards like you who need to be shot and burried
CakeMace 2 years ago
You're a piece of shit.
Also, cat brains have been shown to be more similar to human brains than other domesticated animals. the physical structure of human brains and that of cats are very similar; they have the same lobes in the cerebral cortex (the "seat" of intelligence) as humans do. Human brains also function the same way, conveying data via identical neurotransmitters. Cats learn by trial and error, observation and imitation, recalling information much longer than dogs. Enjoy ur fail :)
randall642 2 years ago
so what? a lot of animals can learn by trial and error! i can teach my dog to sit, stay, jump, roll, fetch and all sorts of other things!
cats, well i'd say next to nothing!
your argument is pretty fail, in fact id say its epic fail, please refrain from being epic fail in the future!
But the main point in topic here is that these irresponsible pet owners let their cats run out onto other peoples property's, making that pet everyone else's problem!
CakeMace 2 years ago
Oh yeah? Well have you ever seen a dog trained to use the toilet? No. They aren't coordinate or smart enough. That's a hell of a lot better than those useless tricks your dog does. Which cats have also been trained to do by the way, it is just much harder, as unlike dogs who will do it out of loyalty or emotional reassurance, cats do not see the point of doing them without a direct benefit, because they are that smart.
randall642 2 years ago
Cats placed in Thorndike's puzzle boxes surpass dogs greatly. In these boxes, cats must manipulate series of levers in order to escape. They initially achieve this by trial and error, before committing the sequence to memory. . They also use memory to reduce the amount of trial and error when encountering comparable novel situations e.g. new puzzle boxes.
As for cats trespassing on your property, in what way is that a problem? They will exterminate rodents and garden pests.
randall642 2 years ago
What they do is exterminate birds that i feed on my front lawn!
how is that a good thing!
Also, i haven't seen to many cats being taught tricks, you can't generalize a whole species on the results of one single test that may or may not have been done a multitude of times, the results of that particular test prove very little.
CakeMace 2 years ago
I already explained to you, cats are harder to teach tricks because they are smarter. unlike dogs who will do it out of loyalty or emotional reassurance, cats do not see the point of doing them without a direct benefit.
learn to read.
randall642 2 years ago
That doesn't prove there smarter at all, if you can't teach a cat things it would in fact make it dumber. the only thing you have managed to prove is that cats have a better sense of direction and LESS intelligence
CakeMace 2 years ago
You can teach them those things though, A good example of this is The Yuri Kuklachev Cat Theatre based in Moscow , the owner of which has been training cats for many years to do a full range of circus style tricks. Like dogs and people, many cats have active minds that thrive on stimulation, exploration and learning.
The difference is they are less willing to do them because they aren't retarded little followers looking for an alpha male to tell them what to do.
kthx try again
randall642 2 years ago
so... it takes a circus to train a cat?
i rest my case...
CakeMace 2 years ago
Maybe your birds are the one you should keep caged up. If any of your stupid birds fly on to my property my cats take them out for being loud and annoying.
randall642 2 years ago
down where i live most of the birds are native, so they shouldn't be killed by an introduced species because some owner is fucking careless.
but if you where responsible, you wouldn't let your stupid cat go and kill birds!
CakeMace 2 years ago
pshht
kaabii123 3 years ago
the hell with going to the authorities!!personally i would lie in wait for her then drag her sorry ass into my house for a little lesson on how to treat those that are smaller and weaker.maybe a hydrochloric douche?a couple of tablespoons of draino down the throat.any more ideas out there?
majorferret 3 years ago
sadistlittlepuppy, Do you live in this town and know this person? I am curious. Also somebody called her "chink lady" and said she eats cat with worcestire sauce. Are you making this up?
naughty00e 4 years ago
it was my cats.
Sadistlitlepuppy 4 years ago
Ok. Well I hope ya'll take better care of your cats and that maybe if she must trap them, yall can agree on a way to pick them up. Do you mean to be Saddest Little Puppy or is it deliberately mispelled because of the name being taken?
naughty00e 4 years ago
Why not just not trap it, and let it walk home? If you really don't want it on your property (why would you care?) just yell at it and scare it off. It's not hard to scare a cat off.
randall642 3 years ago
i gotta disagree with you, some people don't like cats on their property and rightly so!
cat owners need to learn to take some responsiblility
CakeMace 2 years ago
If i had a bird and they grew up with a bird, they would have no interest in hunting them. If i had the opportunity, i would of done that. but i wouldn't want a bird, because you have to keep them caged up most of the time or clip their wings which is mean. If i could have a chill bird that could go outside like all birds want to, but came back on it's own, like a cat, then it would be cool.
randall642 2 years ago
interesting
i have a bird, its a peach face and its wings aren't clipped, it starts squawking madly at 4pm each day to let me know that its time to let it out of its cage. it then fly's around, usually sleeps on my shoulder and sometimes plays in plastic bags (with my supervision, i wouldn't let it suffocate or anything) and chews up paper. i can clap my hands loudly 4 times and it will respond with a certain chirp, i can do it several times, *4claps* *chirp* *4claps* *Chirp*
CakeMace 2 years ago
It thinks your hand claps are another bird call because it's stupid. when a cat meows it does it for a reason, it actually has something to communicate to you.
Tell me why do you keep it in a cage? Is it cause it's too wild and stupid to not shit all over the house and wreck shit? Yeah thought so.
randall642 2 years ago
my bird chirps to let me know its hungry, thirsty or even to let it out, so no, its not stupid!
i keep it in a cage in my house because it wouldn't survive in the wild!!!
i find it a bit rich for you say how birds destroy things, cats have been known to tear up furniture, birds don't do that!
CakeMace 2 years ago
it wouldn't survive in the wild because it fucking sucks and is dumb. i bet it chirps at the window begging for freedom too. that is if you even let it fly in a room with windows, it would probably fly into it.
randall642 2 years ago
it wouldn't survive because its domesticated you dumbfuck, it seems you have little to no knowledge about animals.
birds are smarter than cats! by ALOT
CakeMace 2 years ago
There is not even one way that birds are smarter than cats.
randall642 2 years ago
Yeah there is, go do some research on the raven!
CakeMace 2 years ago
Completely irrelevant. Ravens KILL birds like the peach face in the wild, retard!!!
randall642 2 years ago
Ahahaha, you just proved to EVERYONE how stupid you really are.
Raven's are completely relevant, as it is a species of bird
CakeMace 2 years ago
Speak for yourself, birdbrain. :)
randall642 2 years ago
and yet birds are still smarter than cats ;)
CakeMace 2 years ago
keep telling yourself that, it just might come true.
randall642 2 years ago
I'm sorry to see how ignorant you are of the truth!
I'm sitting here laughing, i ask you to stop commenting as your arguments are so stupid I'm going to suffocate from laughter.
CakeMace 2 years ago
Yes, and lions are a species of cat. Does that prove that cats have great strength? No dumb ass. LOL
randall642 2 years ago
thats just about the stupidest justification i have EVER heard. where talking about intelligence, not strength. if you wish to count "Lions" in this debate about intelligence, then so be it.
CakeMace 2 years ago
I wouldn't wish to do that because it would be completely retarded. Lions are smarter than birds right? So that means cats must be smarter than birds! That is your argument put into perspective. Realize the idiocy yet?
randall642 2 years ago
ROFL
Lions aren't smarter than birds!
the raven is a bird, you can't just justify what species of bird i should exclude from this argument because you want to exclude the lion!
ahahahahaha
CakeMace 2 years ago
Lions are FAR smarter than any species of bird.
randall642 2 years ago
AHAHAHAH
no their not! the raven is far smarter than ANY lion
CakeMace 2 years ago
Not even close.
randall642 2 years ago
Birds don't have an elaborate cerebral cortex, therefore their day-to-day functioning was believed to be strictly based on their genetic programming, making them almost robotic in nature. Birdbrain.
randall642 2 years ago
and yet they can be taught to repeat words, taught to make noises, taught where food is, knows who it likes and who it doesn't, and can SOLVE PROBLEMS (yes, birds have problem solving ability, didn't you know that? it is a PROVEN FACT)
i have never ever seen a cat with problem solving ability
CakeMace 2 years ago
What kind of problem solving? Everything you mentioned is "for the birds". (common slang for stupid) cats possess visual memory ability comparable to that of monkeys. the physical structure of human brains and that of cats are very similar; they have the same lobes in the cerebral cortex (the "seat" of intelligence) as humans do. Human brains also function the same way, conveying data via identical neurotransmitters. Cat's can complete Thorndike puzzle boxes. Birds can not.
randall642 2 years ago
once again your argument is complete bullshit
A) although a cat may have the same visual memory as a monkey, this does not in fact indicate intelligence. In terms of actual intelligence the raven is in the same class as the chimpanzee and the dolphin, no cat in the world is within the same class of intelligence
search up intelligent birds of youtube where a raven actually makes a tool to complete an experiment (something a cat wouldn't be able to do)
CakeMace 2 years ago
Visual memory is a part of intelligence. One of the very things that defines intelligence, and is part of how we determine the difference between intelligence and basic instinct.
Cats have been known to invent tools also, not that that means anything, even naked molerats create and use tools.
randall642 2 years ago
Really, name ONE tool a cat has invented!!!
and no, memory does NOT necessarily define intelligence, problem solving skills however are indicators of intelligence.
it is a proven fact that in fact, even squirrels AND Dogs are smarter than cats. but rather than you take my word for it, im going to send you a PM with a link
CakeMace 2 years ago
in general, problem solving ability = intelligence, not memory!
this equates to your argument is flawed
CakeMace 2 years ago
Cats have better problem solving skills than dogs as proven by thorndlike puzzle boxes.
randall642 2 years ago
it could be argued thorndlike puzzle box isn't a sufficient or even valid test, as cats are naturally playful. it can be argued thorndlike's design of the puzzleboxes gave the cats bits and pieces to play with where things that effectively lead to their escape. theres more than one flaw in the logic of thorndlike puzzle box
CakeMace 2 years ago
Yes, that could be argued, if you're a retard. The fact is it is undisputed in the scientific community as Dr Thorndike is respected today for many contributions to the science of intelligence not just the Thorndike box. In these boxes, cats must manipulate series of levers in order to escape. They initially achieve this by trial and error, before committing the sequence to memory. They also use memory to reduce the amount of trial and error when encountering comparable situations, dogs do not.
randall642 2 years ago
actually, that could be seriously argued... praying on an animals playful nature to prove intelligence is not a valid scientific experiment and could at any time be disputed.
committing the sequence of memory? once again, memory doesn't make up intelligence!
but check that link i sent you
CakeMace 2 years ago
If your argument had any validity to it, you could change the face of science. There were opposing views while Thorndike was alive. But today, his work is unchallenged and unanimous accepted by scientists. But who cares what scientists think, i'm sure some idiot making youtube poop videos can change their mind!
randall642 2 years ago
thorndikes puzzle box is one experiment (that is flawed)
Check those links i told you about
also search intellegent bird and tell me where you have seen cats doing half the shit those birds do. it has been PROVEN that birds have greater problem solving ability than cats.
CakeMace 2 years ago
once again you have lost the argument
CakeMace 2 years ago
But if you look at that link i sent you, you should have no trouble accepting the truth about which animal is smarter...
CakeMace 2 years ago
You didn't send me a link. Fail.
randall642 2 years ago
i did, you didn't get it?
ill send it again!
CakeMace 2 years ago
Were also talking about lovebirds, from the Psittacidae family. Not ravens, from the Corvidae family. Try applying your own logic to yourself some time.
randall642 2 years ago
we are arguing about BIRDS, as in birds in general.
your argument is totally invalidated, sorry to say
CakeMace 2 years ago
Yes, and in general the feline species are smarter.
randall642 2 years ago
In general, birds are smarter and your argument is flawed
CakeMace 2 years ago
In general, birds are NOT smarter.
randall642 2 years ago
In general, meaning on average, felines are smarter. Even if the crow wasn't the average birdbrain, that would be a rarity in the bird species not a generality. Thus, even if the raven is smarter than cats, (which it isn't) in GENERAL (i.e. on average) cats would still be smarter.
randall642 2 years ago
Not really, other birds have proven signs of high intelligence too, there are other lists (where the cat doesn't even make it on) that puts certain birds even higher than crows and ravens
CakeMace 2 years ago
Interesting I wonder why "For the birds" is a way to describe something for stupid people. I wonder why no one ever says "For the cats"
hmmmm i wonder why.....
randall642 2 years ago
Many birds follow strict time schedules in their activities. These are often dependent upon environmental cues. Birds also are sensitive to daylight length, and this awareness is especially important as a cue for migratory species. The ability to orient themselves during migrations is attributed to birds' superior sensory abilities, rather than to intelligence.
randall642 2 years ago
You can't tell me that it letting me know it wants to come out isn't a sign of intelligence. it also has ways of pointing out other things, like when its hungry or thirsty, evidently a sentient being of no intelligence couldn't do that!
CakeMace 2 years ago
and wile it is true that birds generally don't come back to the owner if let outside, it doesn't mean they should be let outside anyway. even if your bird could fly away and return to your house each day, why would you let it out?
you risk it getting shot, eaten by a cat, run over by a car, mauled by a dog and even kidnapped by someone along with a whole lot of other dangerous possibilities. its really not worth the risk!
CakeMace 2 years ago
That's fucking sick, i bet you keep birds imprisoned in your house. They wouldn't come back because they don't want to come back to you, they want to be free.
randall642 2 years ago
No, it wouldn't come back because it would want to explore!
CakeMace 2 years ago
and because it would forget about you and its previous home instantly because it has little memory and is stupid.
randall642 2 years ago
and yet the bird somehow remembers the time it wants to get out, remembers who it likes and who it doesn't... it also knows where the food is located, so its got nothing to do with memory, your argument's up to this point have been 100% flawed so just stop, seriously
CakeMace 2 years ago
i said has little memory not no memory, idiot. learn to comprehend.
randall642 2 years ago
No moron, it doesn't have "little memory", you'd know this if you owned one
CakeMace 2 years ago
You mean if i kept one prisoner like you? Yeah, that would really prove alot.
randall642 2 years ago
Oh, so evidently according to you all animals at the zoo would be prisoners too!
the real reason my birds kept in a cage is for its own saftey
CakeMace 2 years ago
Zoo's are terribly inhumane, i have never been to one and never will.
randall642 2 years ago
you have a lovely myopic view of the world!
CakeMace 2 years ago
Yes, it does have little memory compared to cats, dogs and apes. This is proven by tests.
randall642 2 years ago
and yet, it can remember things quite well. domestic birds can repeat words and noises and sometimes even short sentences, it remembers who it likes and in the case of my bird, when its time to come out of its cage...
CakeMace 2 years ago
she relocates them to the top of the tram (A mountain out here) and it's hot in this desert. Palm Springs is hot as hell.
Sadistlitlepuppy 4 years ago
End vegeterrorism. Trap stupid cats. Turn them into the pound.
naughty00e 4 years ago
"She is laying traps in her backyard, catching neighbors cats and poisoning them or releasing them into the wild."
If you want to jail people for animal crimes, chew on this: If your rotten cat gets trapped in her backyard (looks like humane traps anyways) then shouldn't you be charged with trespassing or negligence or something? She's probably sick of stray cats in her yard.
naughty00e 4 years ago
she traps them in her front yard. and she lures them into her yard.
Sadistlitlepuppy 4 years ago
All people are scum !
simbiotic 5 years ago
Then what does that make you? You are weird.
naughty00e 4 years ago
She's eating them- Says worchestershire sause is good on kitty.
RichAtCamp 5 years ago
HAHAHAHA
naughty00e 4 years ago
i heard about that chink lady she is a FUCKING SHIT hole i hav 2 cats
sk82live1 5 years ago