The BNP will be delighted with AV. There are an awful lot of people who would vote BNP first,and Conservative second, knowing thier vote would go to the Conservatives but expressing thier racist views at the same time. The political parties would see the strength of this viewpoint and become more racist too. Be careful what you wish for!
@rich293 That's true. The BNP will not be delighted with AV, because you do not get normal voters who will put them as a 2nd or 3rd preference. You get the nutters, and the majority. The BNP will not succeed under AV at al.
@ToaJoe I think many would put BNP as thier second option becuase the election becomes 2 things under AV - a way of voting for and candidate and an opinion poll. The second vote will be known and accounted for when politicians stand up to speak and make policies. British politics is remarkable for being very responsive to public opinion despite what some cynics might say.
@ToaJoe I can't see the connection. The Law of Unintened Consequences is much more powerful than the thoughts of any party about what they think might happen. The LIberal Party in Torbay is also campaigning for AV, despite the fact that they are a product of FPTP and would have disappeared without it. Without FPTP Labout-voting immigarnats to Torbay would not have changed their vote to Liberal over the years.
@hopefultoo a politician who appeals to the BNP in order to get their second preferences is very short sighted, since doing so would likely detract from their first preference support.
BNP voters would probably put tory as second or third anyway, so the clever tory politician would not change any policies.
@LeoMRogers You're not wrong, exactly. It's just that politics operates at the margins when things are close, and they often are in British politics. One of my colleagues at work sympathises strongly with the BNP but votes Liberal! How's that for a combination! Parties do not have to make racist statements to attract BNP second votes, just subtly change the way threy present themselves, whihc in turn helps subtly mould public attitudes. Even the Liberals can slant things differently.
@hopefultoo One might argue that that is exactly what was happening when Cameron made his speech on multiculturalism. In which case AV will change nothing there.
But even if you're right, if the parties lean towards the smaller parties, and that includes BNP and Green, then their policies will better reflect their average voter, most of their policies reflecting their core support, and fewer of their policies reflecting second preference support etc.
@JoeBLOG5 Ah! My enemy's enemy is my friend! That's an excellent and well-established way of working out the best thing to do.
hopefultoo 9 months ago
@SamsSpaghetti I suppose fascism is relative - if you think the state here is fascist try most of the rest of the world.
hopefultoo 9 months ago
Dr Huppert. A man who always speaks the truth!
hazymat 10 months ago
AV is not PR. However voting for AV will make PR more likely in the future.
Alex989Y 10 months ago
The BNP will be delighted with AV. There are an awful lot of people who would vote BNP first,and Conservative second, knowing thier vote would go to the Conservatives but expressing thier racist views at the same time. The political parties would see the strength of this viewpoint and become more racist too. Be careful what you wish for!
hopefultoo 11 months ago
@hopefultoo If the BNP will be delighted with AV- why are they currently campaigning against it?
ToaJoe 10 months ago
@ToaJoe could be a reverse tactic, if they agree with no2av then people are likely to do the oposite of what the bnp want.
RCXDominator 10 months ago
@RCXDominator Please explain to me why you think Labour and Conservative voters are going to put BNP as their second option?
That's right. They won't. Therefore, the BNP will benefit no more than they would in FPTP.
ToaJoe 10 months ago
@ToaJoe jesus mate, was just giving an idea of why they might. no need to get all pissy.
RCXDominator 10 months ago
@ToaJoe I myself would just not include the BNP in my ranking of the vote rather than ranking them at all which i think you will be allowed to do.
rich293 10 months ago
@rich293 That's true. The BNP will not be delighted with AV, because you do not get normal voters who will put them as a 2nd or 3rd preference. You get the nutters, and the majority. The BNP will not succeed under AV at al.
ToaJoe 10 months ago
@ToaJoe I think many would put BNP as thier second option becuase the election becomes 2 things under AV - a way of voting for and candidate and an opinion poll. The second vote will be known and accounted for when politicians stand up to speak and make policies. British politics is remarkable for being very responsive to public opinion despite what some cynics might say.
hopefultoo 9 months ago
@ToaJoe I can't see the connection. The Law of Unintened Consequences is much more powerful than the thoughts of any party about what they think might happen. The LIberal Party in Torbay is also campaigning for AV, despite the fact that they are a product of FPTP and would have disappeared without it. Without FPTP Labout-voting immigarnats to Torbay would not have changed their vote to Liberal over the years.
hopefultoo 9 months ago
@hopefultoo a politician who appeals to the BNP in order to get their second preferences is very short sighted, since doing so would likely detract from their first preference support.
BNP voters would probably put tory as second or third anyway, so the clever tory politician would not change any policies.
LeoMRogers 10 months ago
@LeoMRogers You're not wrong, exactly. It's just that politics operates at the margins when things are close, and they often are in British politics. One of my colleagues at work sympathises strongly with the BNP but votes Liberal! How's that for a combination! Parties do not have to make racist statements to attract BNP second votes, just subtly change the way threy present themselves, whihc in turn helps subtly mould public attitudes. Even the Liberals can slant things differently.
hopefultoo 9 months ago
@hopefultoo One might argue that that is exactly what was happening when Cameron made his speech on multiculturalism. In which case AV will change nothing there.
But even if you're right, if the parties lean towards the smaller parties, and that includes BNP and Green, then their policies will better reflect their average voter, most of their policies reflecting their core support, and fewer of their policies reflecting second preference support etc.
LeoMRogers 9 months ago