"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text ... that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds." - T. Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Jan 24, 1814
There is no way Barton is sincere. Search his site, wallbuilders, for John Adams letter to Benjamin Rush. If you read the whole thing, it's very clear that Adams is against the idea of the holy ghost. But Barton claims the opposite, I've seen videos of him in churches blatantly claiming this. He claims the president was being sincere about the holy ghost, not telling of the the presidents obvious sarcasm, he HAS to know better. Seriously, read the whole letter yourself.
And who on ''the left'' is doing this? You got any names? or is is generally ''the left''. I can name the people on ''the right'' who are being deceptive including David Barton. It's not the entire right.
3 - Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
2 - doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the
I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the
I've read the book, Glenn (as he always does) fails to mention that Jefferson took out all of Jesus's miracles, supernatural occurances, and any reference to Jesus being God and only left in his morale teachings. Hints why the name is Jesus of Nazareth rather than Jesus Christ. Jefferson was an inexplicable Deist in every sense of the definition...
Jefferson was indeed a Christian he just didnt except what he seen as possiable fabrications. That book excluded miracles by Jesus cause Jefferson was not confortable w/ them.
@ToddAldrich Go to monticello,org and look up Jefferson's beliefs for yourself. They'll tell you that he was a deist. He didn't believe in the divinity of jesus or in christianity. A good brainwashing as a child can be overcome by a smart man such as Jefferson. Suck it, christfag.
@captnamrca07 Let's start with the Deism of that time - they still believed in God and were far closer to mainline Christian groups then Baptists and Catholics are to each other today. So your "Deism" claim is NOT what you might think. He believed in God, was a follower of Christ AND was a leader in the Anglican church. What is germane to our country is he believed that our rights emanate from God. They are the basis for our rights and to undermine that belief is to undermine our freedom.
@captnamrca07 You see, Capt. I have read his ENTIRE works and the anti-religious writing of his are confined to a period of exceptional personal anguish. - (He lost several very close friends and family members in a brief period of time and was away from home in France.)
Your masters have spoon fed you small, filtered snippets from a brief period in his life and led you to believe they represented the whole man.
@ToddAldrich Hey jackass, I told you where I got my information; from the people who run his estate. The people who put out his official biography are the ones with this information. Here's an excerpt from monticello,org: "Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ..." It continues on
@captnamrca07 Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man."
@captnamrca07 Hey JACKASS, I got MY information from JEFFERSON'S OWN WRITINGS where he explicitly said he was a Christian and a follower of Jesus Christ.
I don't care what MODERN DAY people with an agenda say - I care what HE said. Your sources COULD have shown you the same things I mention, yet they chose not to publish those items.
As I said earlier, he did indeed go through a period where he questioned his faith.
Did you not read what I wrote???
In ANY case, you cannot deny that Jefferson believed that our rights are gifts from God and that this is the very foundation of our freedoms and our founding documents recognize this as do the sentiments of the founding fathers as witness by their writings.
@ToddAldrich Well, he believed they came from A god. Not necessarily the murderous god of islam, judaism, an christianity. As I said, a lot of the founding fathers were deists. A belief in god by the writer of our Declaration of Independence does NOT constitute the U.S. being a christian nation. The Treaty of Tripoli states that our nation has no religious affiliation. Also, the founding fathers would most certainly be fine with a muslim community/prayer center going up near ground zero.
@captnamrca07 Well, lets look at who "God" was to Jefferson. He was born into and raised in Anglican family. After the Revolution, the American Anglicans were known as Episcopalians. He was a member of the Vestry in the Anglican Church. Later in life, he gravitated toward the Unitarian Church, but the Unitarian church of then bears little resemblance to what it is today. It was a mainline Protestant denomination. He Claimed he was a Christian ALWAYS.
@ToddAldrich LOL he was a deist, you fuck. Go ACTUALLY read something by Jefferson. He saw the murderous god that I see and denounced the divinity of jesus.
@captnamrca07 You make the mistake that all leftist idiots do. You argue against a strawman. The "theocracy" bogey man is something your leftist masters made up to make you wet your little panties. They try to paint conservative Christians as wanting a Christian version of Saudi Arabia or Iran. They obviously know how gullible and fearful you are - because they get you every time.
Oh, I also think they have the right for the mosque, but it is absolutely a vile thing for them to do.
@ToddAldrich How is it vile? Most christians today are complete idiots and don't actually follow their religion. Is it vile for there to be a christian church near the olympic park in Atlanta? It should be; A fundamentalist christian bombed it.
@captnamrca07 It is certainly their right, but it is a DELIBERATE attempt at provocation and THAT is vile. If it were not, they would have no trouble relocating it.
@ToddAldrich : Of course Jefferson never explicitly said he was a Christian. Once he said "I am a Christian in the sense that", and then after stating his respect for the moral teachings of Jesus, went on to state a long list of why he was not Christian. Your claim is false and you could not produce such a quote, let alone counter the many quotes where Jefferson identifies himself as a non Christian. Christians seemed alarmed to learn that "god" did not mean "Christian god" to the founders.
@TouchOfGreatness You are so full of shit. Jefferson was certainly one of the least "christian" of the founders, yet he did not rail against Christianity, he railed against much of organized religion. There is a HUGE difference there. He attended a CHRISTIAN church his WHOLE LIFE. He was a member of the LEADERSHIP of the Anglican Church (later called the Episcopal Church in the States) He Authorized money from the federal treasury to support CHRISTIAN missionaries.
@TouchOfGreatness Even then, if someone were to accept your ludicrous statement that Washington was not a Christian, it is STILL THE SAME GOD. But I do NOT accept that. His PEERS UNQUESTIONABLY thought of him as a Christian, he regularly attended church services and even stated to Indian Chiefs who asked that their children be taught in American schools: "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. "
@ToddAldrich Even if all your right wing revisionist bs is true, most of the founding fathers owned slaves, does that make slavery a good thing? They rode horses and wore wigs & breaches, does that mean we wear those? Finally, where in the bible was any reference to freedom of religion or speech, or even America. The idea that GOd was looking over his shoulder dictating the Constitution is a child's story. If so, God forgot about the rights of slaves, Indians, women & children
@DawnOfTheDead991 Are you done arguing with straw-men? Why do you feel the need to COMPLETELY misrepresent what I said?
Is your argument THAT weak?
Even a cursory reading of what I posted will show that I said NOTHING about interpreting the Bible, but instead I relied on the writings and explanations the FOUNDERS themselves put forth
@ToddAldrich If they wanted a Christian nation, they would've written it into to the Constitution. You & Barton act like all they did before creating the country was read bibles & pray. Well, the important founding fathers were intellectuals who were very well versed, as all educated people of their day, in Classical Roman & Greek learning. They wore wigs too, so should everyone wear a wig? The reason why a lot of them went as Christians, CONFORMITY! I'm sick of rw frauds & their phony "FAITH"
@DawnOfTheDead991 They wrote it into the very FOUNDING document of our nation! The Declaration of Independence SPECIFICALLY says that we are given certain rights and they are given to us by our creator. NOW REGARDLESS of whether or not they were Christians, nearly every one of them believed in GOD as our creator - and it was the SAME god that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship today. These rights AND THEIR ORIGIN were universally recognized - SO MUCH SO that they were deemed SELF EVIDENT.
@ToddAldrich " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ---"There is absolutely ZERO question what the founders meant. NONE. Our rights are granted by GOD.That is a VERY important concept because as John Adams said -“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
”Why is it inadequate for the immoral or non-religious?
@ToddAldrich It is inadequate because a population brought up with the proper moral founding WOULD NOT DARE - NOR WOULD IT TOLERATE any man or institution of man who tried to usurp the authority of God. Since our rights are granted by God himself, anyone who tried to take those rights away, INCLUDING the government, would be placing himself above God. A religious population would not tolerate that for one second. THAT is the check on the government taking our rights from us.
@DawnOfTheDead991 Thomas Jefferson said pretty much EXACTLY this when he said: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?"
You see you have to have actually READ the founders in context to know what the hell you are talking about.
@jfsfrnd The Entire document. It is from "Notes on Virginia" it is in the 18th query called "manners" and he makes clear that our Nation is imperiled by ignoring God's law by continuing slavery. This passage explains WHY slavery was wrong. MAN had taken right that ONLY God has the jurisdiction to take.
@jfsfrnd Keep in mind that Jefferson was one of the LEAST religious of the founders and yet even he acknowleged God and followed Jesus Christ's teachings. He was not hostile to Christians but to ORGANIZED religion and it's habit of following tradition instead of the word of God.
@ToddAldrich He didn't ''follow Christs teachings'' like other Christians. He though of Jesus as the greatest philosopher who taught philantropism and deism. Christians were hostile to him calling him infidel.
@jfsfrnd I'm sorry, he said "a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus".Is that REALLY all that significant?Does that wording change ANYTHING about his views on the origination of rights?I have stated that he was amongst the LEAST religious amongst the founders-yet he too believed that our freedoms were built on the idea that rights are granted by God.
The left in this country have been undermining any belief in God, in order to undermine freedom.
@ToddAldrich Yeah. Disiple of his doctrines or disiple of him are two different things. ''The left''? Really. I'm on ''the left'' and I believe in God.
@jfsfrnd I won't nit-pick because it does not make ANY difference to the main point. He absolutely believed that our rights were granted by God and that our very freedoms depend on a citizenry that believe that.
Again, read what I said carefully. I did NOT say you were a lefty - NOR did I say you did not believe in God.
I said the Left is trying to undermine our Nation's belief in God and the notion that Jefferson expressed in "Notes on Virginia - Manners (query 18).
@ToddAldrich I said the Left is trying to undermine our Nation's belief in God"
Well, when you preach of virgin births, talking bushes, etc...................we are only trying to get you to be logical, rational and truthful to the evidence at hand, but the right doesn't want to do it. They would rather hold on to their fantasy land characters that make them feel all warm and cozy on the inside.
@srexob715 You have the freedom to believe as you wish, but regardless of what you OR I believe, the FOUNDERS knew that a citizenry that believed was VITAL to our freedoms. Even Jefferson, one of the least religious of the founders, FLAT OUT said so.
@ToddAldrich Isn't it funny that IF what you said were true and that our beliefs in religion(god) were vital to our freedoms, then I wonder why women were not allowed to vote during a time when religion prevailed over our nation.
If our founders were so religious and if they used the religion to govern this country, then they governed and accepted the fact that women were treated unequally................which goes against your 'vital to freedom' argument
@ToddAldrich Who said I was trying to force my beliefs onto you. I am just showing you how wrong your beliefs are. If you are too scared to leave them, then that is up to you.
If you want to keep believing in things that are wrong, then go right ahead. But don't get mad when people laugh at your beliefs that have been proven wrong over and over again. You will only think we are attacking you, but this is only to save face!
@jfsfrnd Jefferson said THIS: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?"
@jfsfrnd It is from "Notes on Virginia" it is in the 18th query called "manners" and he makes clear that our Nation is imperiled by ignoring God's law by continuing slavery. This passage explains WHY slavery was wrong. MAN had taken right that ONLY God has the jurisdiction to take.
Glenn Beck is lying like David Barton. Amazing that one of the few contributions of the ten-commandments, thou shall not bear false witness, is so easily brushed aside by these conjurers. Even Washington, who spoke of God often, only mentioned Jesus once, and not in any manner to indicate he was Christian. Jefferson certainly was not Christian, the Jefferson Bible being one example of the ample evidence. In the last sentence of the Jefferson Bible, Jesus dies. The End.
@TouchOfGreatness I am a Christian, yet I don't speak and certainly don't write of Jesus nearly as much as I speak of God.
In fact I would assume that Washington was like most people. He didn't go around bludgeoning people with his beliefs, yet when asked he freely spoke. He was not a cleric, why would you expect him to write extensively on the subject? Answer: because you have an agenda to push and you are trying to fit the evidence to the agenda. In other words, YOU are the liar.
Agreed, Washington was nothing like David Barton and Glenn Beck who do go around bludgeoning people with their beliefs. They are both dangerous Christian dominionists. My agenda is to resist dangerous liars like David Barton, and help prevent you from assassinating your own character by one more time attempting to turn Jefferson into a Christian.
@TouchOfGreatness Don't worry about me. I have actually read the entire works of Jefferson - and outside of a relatively short period of time, when his wife and daughters died while he was away from them, he was a practicing Christian.
If he wasn't, why did he waste all of his time in Church, and setting aside the capital for Church services?
@TouchOfGreatness Dominionists!!! That is just a scary bedtime story your masters and brainwashers tell you to make you wet your little pink panties and keep you sucking on your thumb out of fear. That way they can better control you.
@TouchOfGreatness Despite Jefferson's own words SAYING he was a Christian.
I like how you leftists like to tell other people what they believe!!
It doesn't matter to you what they actually say, you ALWAYS make things up to fit your worldview.
Christians want a theocracy here in the U.S. , Bush went into Iraq in order to steal their oil, The founding fathers intended that a "separation of Church and State" to be in our Constitution.
Well, this WELL CONNECTED Christian has ONLY heard such talk from idiot leftists. As I said before, it is something your leftist controllers use to manipulate you and make you wet your panties.
@ToddAldrich HAHA wow. You must be that stupid, then. I guess you filter out the stupid shit that conservatives/christians say, also. Any country ran by a murderous god would be such a monstrosity. Oh wait, isn't it your religion that hates muslims? Wait, wait, wait, don't muslims believe in the same god as christians? I guess it'd be too illogical to think that christian extremists would blow up buildings. Oh shit, they have already. I guess your extremists are the same as muslim extremists.
@captnamrca07 "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"
More right wing Xtian rubbish . Where in the bible is there anything like our Bill of Rights. All those European nations were Xtian too back then. So if freedom was all about believing in your little buddy Jesus, then those countries would all be as free as we are. Sorry, but outside your little subset of barely literate fakes like these two phonies in the video, you're just another self righteous paranoid crackpot. So keep repeating your nonsense because no reputable scholars takes it seriously
@ToddAldrich HAHAHAHAHA! You really are that stupid. Have you ever read anything factual about U.S. history, like the first amendment or the Treaty of Tripoli? Beck doesn't teach you factual history, he teaches you his fucking pathetic agenda.
@captnamrca07 HaHAHAHAAH are you really that stupid that you have to keep arguing against your made up straw-man arguments!?!?!?! NO ONE is denying the treaty of Tripoli - and no one wants a theocracy. You keep wetting your panties about a "threat" that exists only in the minds of you Christophobic leftists. Oh, and YOU should read the first amendment - it also says regarding religion, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". You guys always seem to forget that part.
@ToddAldrich LOL when did anyone say you couldn't practice religion? I guess that would be Beck feeding you bullshit again. It's fine to practice religion, you just can't associate it with government. Also, if NO ONE is denying the Treaty of Tripoli, then EVERYONE should realize that we are not a christian nation! You're so stupid that it's not even funny.
@captnamrca07 Do you know what Free exercise means??? I think you better stop and think before you call anyone else stupid.
The Treaty of Tripoli was simply stating we are not a theocracy. We are a nation of laws not of Christian theology - and that is true. That does not mean our rights do not emanate from God.
And you STILL haven't dealt with the FACT that many states had a religious REQUIREMENT for public employees. The founding fathers had no issue with that!
@ToddAldrich Actually, if our rights emanated from the christian god, killing would be advocated and abolished at the same time and homosexuals would not exist because they all would be dead. Some states still have a "religious" requirement for public office. South Carolina has a statute in it's constitution that prohibits an atheist from being government. This, as everyone should know, is unconstitutional.
@captnamrca07 Actually you are full of shit. Christians are COMMANDED to love the sinner.
You know NOTHING of Christianity outside of what your masters feed you to keep you in fear (and under control).
It was NOT Unconstitutional to have religious requirements at the time the Constitution was ratified. So, unless there has been an amendment to the Constitution that says that specifically, it STILL should not be unconstitutional. (there hasn't) STUPID? - yes, but not unconstitutional.
@ToddAldrich Have you ever read the bible? God clearly says to kill the non-believer and to kill homosexuals. I've read the bible. I have one next to me right now, actually. If you've read any of Deuteronomy 13, you know what god says about stoning non-believers.
Christianity is entirely about control by fear. Why do you think hell evolved into a place of eternal torture? The original christian hell was very similar to hades.
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must...
@captnamrca07 Deuteronomy 9-11 be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
This is most certainly about killing non-believers.
@ToddAldrich No, those would be non-believers in the christian god.
This would be a false prophet: 1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
It's a prophet when the bible says prophet. When it doesn't say prophet, it just means a follower of another god, just like the bible says, you fucking idiot. It doesn't take a prophet to say "lets go worship other gods," it takes a believer in another, or a non-believer in christ
@ToddAldrich If you believe that section is solely about killing false prophets, then do you believe Deuteronomy 13: 12-18 are about killing a full town of false prophets? Or is it about killing a town of NON-BELIEVERS? Honestly, you have to be the dumbest christian I have ever talked to because, apparently, you don't understand the difference between the word "prophet" and "people who tell you to worship other gods."
@captnamrca07 It does not take a miracle or a vision to make someone a prophet. Look around the Bible it is always referring to false prophets and people who sow evil in the same context. Context means nothing to you idiots.
I LOVE how you liberals simply assign motives to people you have never met - and directly contradict their OWN writings - just like you did with Jefferson who flat out claimed he was Christian, you have the audacity to say wasn't!
@ToddAldrich You didn't answer my question. The people in verses 6-18 are not called prophets. It is simply said that they believed in a different god. They are not referred to as prophets as the person is verse 1 is. I LOVE how you just ignore simple fact, or decide thee truth isn't true just because of your faith. The bible is full of stuff like this that most believers ignore.
@captnamrca07 If a person is preaching in a pulpit and you say, "that person up there talking" instead of calling him a preacher does that mean he is not a preacher??? Give me a break! Talk about stupid!
@ToddAldrich Why would one assume he has to be a preacher? Couldn't it be a member of the congregation that decided to preach for a bit? This does not make him an ordained minister.
If a person makes an arrest do we automatically call him/her a police officer?
They could be making a citizen's arrest.
Regardless, a false prophet is still a NON-BELIEVER in the christian god. Which means that they must be stoned to death.
If the actions are of a "preacher" or of a "false prophet" is there REALLY any difference for the point the chapter you referenced???
A false prophet can be a non-believer, but not all non-believers are false prophets!!! Christians are supposed to minister to non-believers not kill them.
@ToddAldrich So basically what you're saying here is that that passage doesn't say to kill false prophets/non-believers? I though you agreed earlier that it does indeed say to kill them, because it so clearly does tell you to stone, kill, and burn their town to rubble.
@captnamrca07 No, what I am saying is that very few non believers are false prophets! Sheese! Just because you are a non-believer does not mean you are a false prophet. (notice I said that twice this time so even you could get it?)
Do you have comprehension problems all of the time???
@ToddAldrich So then the whole town that god tells christians to kill in that passage are ALL false prophets according to you? If you're only supposed to kill false prophets (as you say) then the whole town that was murdered must have been solely filled with false prophets, correct? That is the only way what you're saying makes sense, because you keep contradicting yourself.
@captnamrca07 Christians are supposed to minister to non-believers, like Christ himself did, like he commanded the apostles to. You are basing your hatred on a false assumption and a faulty interpretation of an old Testament book - ignorant of the fact that Christians follow the New Testament.
@ToddAldrich Christians follow the old testament as well, or they wouldn't think homosexuality is wrong. Jesus never says anything about homosexuality, yet christians still believe it's wrong because it is spoken against in the old testament. Which, according to you, christians do not follow/
@captnamrca07 As Christians, we "acknowledge" the OT, but in light of the NT.
We read the OT with a clear understanding and firm conviction of what Christ accomplished on the cross. If one has no understanding of what Christ accomplished, then one is left to interpret the OT based on the light they DO have. (which isn't much light at all)
Before we can really appreciate and apply the information on a map, we must first be willing to admit that we are lost, and trust that the map is correct.
Why do people listen to David Barton? He has been caught lying many times, why do people even still bother listening to him?
aprox23 2 months ago
"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text ... that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds." - T. Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Jan 24, 1814
gmn545 3 months ago
There is no way Barton is sincere. Search his site, wallbuilders, for John Adams letter to Benjamin Rush. If you read the whole thing, it's very clear that Adams is against the idea of the holy ghost. But Barton claims the opposite, I've seen videos of him in churches blatantly claiming this. He claims the president was being sincere about the holy ghost, not telling of the the presidents obvious sarcasm, he HAS to know better. Seriously, read the whole letter yourself.
frendguy 4 months ago
Jefferson wasn't referring to the God of the Bible. He was referring to Natures God or the Creator. Big difference.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
And who on ''the left'' is doing this? You got any names? or is is generally ''the left''. I can name the people on ''the right'' who are being deceptive including David Barton. It's not the entire right.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
When you say ''our Nation's belief in God'' who are you referring to. There are many religious who believe in God and not all of them Christian.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
3 - Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
2 - doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
Hilarious. There are actually idiots out there saying that Jefferson was an atheist. Pathetic.
leatherneck2044 8 months ago
1 - "A REAL CHRISTIAN"
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816
I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
I've read the book, Glenn (as he always does) fails to mention that Jefferson took out all of Jesus's miracles, supernatural occurances, and any reference to Jesus being God and only left in his morale teachings. Hints why the name is Jesus of Nazareth rather than Jesus Christ. Jefferson was an inexplicable Deist in every sense of the definition...
Toastyfire45 1 year ago
founding fathers were the original outlaws they took a huge crap on the british
TheMiamifuentes 1 year ago
@TheMiamifuentes key work DUTY Lolll
TheMiamifuentes 1 year ago
@TheMiamifuentes Wor*d
TheMiamifuentes 1 year ago
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David Barton is a FRAUD! The US Federal State was not, IN ANY SENSE, founded on the christian religion.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago 12
Jefferson was indeed a Christian he just didnt except what he seen as possiable fabrications. That book excluded miracles by Jesus cause Jefferson was not confortable w/ them.
chicagobdr529 1 year ago
@chicagobdr529 Go to school. Jefferson was a deist, like many other important founding fathers.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@chicagobdr529 Exactly.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
Ha, ha, I have never seen such a liar misrepresent Jefferson. Barton is a complete sham. Jefferson was not a Christian.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness You are either ignorant or you are flat out lying.
Thomas Jefferson was a member of the Vestry (leadership board) of the Anglican Church - and remained so his entire life.
You take a short period of his life where he railed against organized religion and use it to ignore his earlier and later life.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
Comment removed
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Go to monticello,org and look up Jefferson's beliefs for yourself. They'll tell you that he was a deist. He didn't believe in the divinity of jesus or in christianity. A good brainwashing as a child can be overcome by a smart man such as Jefferson. Suck it, christfag.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Let's start with the Deism of that time - they still believed in God and were far closer to mainline Christian groups then Baptists and Catholics are to each other today. So your "Deism" claim is NOT what you might think. He believed in God, was a follower of Christ AND was a leader in the Anglican church. What is germane to our country is he believed that our rights emanate from God. They are the basis for our rights and to undermine that belief is to undermine our freedom.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 You see, Capt. I have read his ENTIRE works and the anti-religious writing of his are confined to a period of exceptional personal anguish. - (He lost several very close friends and family members in a brief period of time and was away from home in France.)
Your masters have spoon fed you small, filtered snippets from a brief period in his life and led you to believe they represented the whole man.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Hey jackass, I told you where I got my information; from the people who run his estate. The people who put out his official biography are the ones with this information. Here's an excerpt from monticello,org: "Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ..." It continues on
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man."
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Hey JACKASS, I got MY information from JEFFERSON'S OWN WRITINGS where he explicitly said he was a Christian and a follower of Jesus Christ.
I don't care what MODERN DAY people with an agenda say - I care what HE said. Your sources COULD have shown you the same things I mention, yet they chose not to publish those items.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich LOL did you even read what I wrote? You apparently didn't read the letter that he wrote that my post talks about. You're a fool.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07
As I said earlier, he did indeed go through a period where he questioned his faith.
Did you not read what I wrote???
In ANY case, you cannot deny that Jefferson believed that our rights are gifts from God and that this is the very foundation of our freedoms and our founding documents recognize this as do the sentiments of the founding fathers as witness by their writings.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Well, he believed they came from A god. Not necessarily the murderous god of islam, judaism, an christianity. As I said, a lot of the founding fathers were deists. A belief in god by the writer of our Declaration of Independence does NOT constitute the U.S. being a christian nation. The Treaty of Tripoli states that our nation has no religious affiliation. Also, the founding fathers would most certainly be fine with a muslim community/prayer center going up near ground zero.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Well, lets look at who "God" was to Jefferson. He was born into and raised in Anglican family. After the Revolution, the American Anglicans were known as Episcopalians. He was a member of the Vestry in the Anglican Church. Later in life, he gravitated toward the Unitarian Church, but the Unitarian church of then bears little resemblance to what it is today. It was a mainline Protestant denomination. He Claimed he was a Christian ALWAYS.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich LOL he was a deist, you fuck. Go ACTUALLY read something by Jefferson. He saw the murderous god that I see and denounced the divinity of jesus.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 You make the mistake that all leftist idiots do. You argue against a strawman. The "theocracy" bogey man is something your leftist masters made up to make you wet your little panties. They try to paint conservative Christians as wanting a Christian version of Saudi Arabia or Iran. They obviously know how gullible and fearful you are - because they get you every time.
Oh, I also think they have the right for the mosque, but it is absolutely a vile thing for them to do.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich How is it vile? Most christians today are complete idiots and don't actually follow their religion. Is it vile for there to be a christian church near the olympic park in Atlanta? It should be; A fundamentalist christian bombed it.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 It is certainly their right, but it is a DELIBERATE attempt at provocation and THAT is vile. If it were not, they would have no trouble relocating it.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich : Of course Jefferson never explicitly said he was a Christian. Once he said "I am a Christian in the sense that", and then after stating his respect for the moral teachings of Jesus, went on to state a long list of why he was not Christian. Your claim is false and you could not produce such a quote, let alone counter the many quotes where Jefferson identifies himself as a non Christian. Christians seemed alarmed to learn that "god" did not mean "Christian god" to the founders.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness You are so full of shit. Jefferson was certainly one of the least "christian" of the founders, yet he did not rail against Christianity, he railed against much of organized religion. There is a HUGE difference there. He attended a CHRISTIAN church his WHOLE LIFE. He was a member of the LEADERSHIP of the Anglican Church (later called the Episcopal Church in the States) He Authorized money from the federal treasury to support CHRISTIAN missionaries.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness Even then, if someone were to accept your ludicrous statement that Washington was not a Christian, it is STILL THE SAME GOD. But I do NOT accept that. His PEERS UNQUESTIONABLY thought of him as a Christian, he regularly attended church services and even stated to Indian Chiefs who asked that their children be taught in American schools: "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. "
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Even if all your right wing revisionist bs is true, most of the founding fathers owned slaves, does that make slavery a good thing? They rode horses and wore wigs & breaches, does that mean we wear those? Finally, where in the bible was any reference to freedom of religion or speech, or even America. The idea that GOd was looking over his shoulder dictating the Constitution is a child's story. If so, God forgot about the rights of slaves, Indians, women & children
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
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ToddAldrich 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 Are you done arguing with straw-men? Why do you feel the need to COMPLETELY misrepresent what I said?
Is your argument THAT weak?
Even a cursory reading of what I posted will show that I said NOTHING about interpreting the Bible, but instead I relied on the writings and explanations the FOUNDERS themselves put forth
ToddAldrich 10 months ago
@ToddAldrich If they wanted a Christian nation, they would've written it into to the Constitution. You & Barton act like all they did before creating the country was read bibles & pray. Well, the important founding fathers were intellectuals who were very well versed, as all educated people of their day, in Classical Roman & Greek learning. They wore wigs too, so should everyone wear a wig? The reason why a lot of them went as Christians, CONFORMITY! I'm sick of rw frauds & their phony "FAITH"
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 They wrote it into the very FOUNDING document of our nation! The Declaration of Independence SPECIFICALLY says that we are given certain rights and they are given to us by our creator. NOW REGARDLESS of whether or not they were Christians, nearly every one of them believed in GOD as our creator - and it was the SAME god that Christians, Jews and Muslims worship today. These rights AND THEIR ORIGIN were universally recognized - SO MUCH SO that they were deemed SELF EVIDENT.
ToddAldrich 10 months ago
@ToddAldrich " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ---"There is absolutely ZERO question what the founders meant. NONE. Our rights are granted by GOD.That is a VERY important concept because as John Adams said -“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
”Why is it inadequate for the immoral or non-religious?
ToddAldrich 10 months ago
@ToddAldrich It is inadequate because a population brought up with the proper moral founding WOULD NOT DARE - NOR WOULD IT TOLERATE any man or institution of man who tried to usurp the authority of God. Since our rights are granted by God himself, anyone who tried to take those rights away, INCLUDING the government, would be placing himself above God. A religious population would not tolerate that for one second. THAT is the check on the government taking our rights from us.
ToddAldrich 10 months ago
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ToddAldrich 10 months ago
@DawnOfTheDead991 Thomas Jefferson said pretty much EXACTLY this when he said: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?"
You see you have to have actually READ the founders in context to know what the hell you are talking about.
It is PAINFULLY obvious you have not done so.
ToddAldrich 10 months ago
@ToddAldrich Where did he say that? Have you read the entire document or just sniped some quote from the internet?
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd The Entire document. It is from "Notes on Virginia" it is in the 18th query called "manners" and he makes clear that our Nation is imperiled by ignoring God's law by continuing slavery. This passage explains WHY slavery was wrong. MAN had taken right that ONLY God has the jurisdiction to take.
etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefVirg.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=18&division=div1
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Keep in mind that Jefferson was one of the LEAST religious of the founders and yet even he acknowleged God and followed Jesus Christ's teachings. He was not hostile to Christians but to ORGANIZED religion and it's habit of following tradition instead of the word of God.
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich He didn't ''follow Christs teachings'' like other Christians. He though of Jesus as the greatest philosopher who taught philantropism and deism. Christians were hostile to him calling him infidel.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd Don't take what I said and change it. I said he followed Christ's teachings. He himself said so, IN THE QUOTE YOU POSTED.
What do you think "a disciple of Christ" means? I was not saying he believed the same as his contemporaries.
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich He never said he was ''a disiple of Christ''.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd I'm sorry, he said "a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus".Is that REALLY all that significant?Does that wording change ANYTHING about his views on the origination of rights?I have stated that he was amongst the LEAST religious amongst the founders-yet he too believed that our freedoms were built on the idea that rights are granted by God.
The left in this country have been undermining any belief in God, in order to undermine freedom.
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich Yeah. Disiple of his doctrines or disiple of him are two different things. ''The left''? Really. I'm on ''the left'' and I believe in God.
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@jfsfrnd I won't nit-pick because it does not make ANY difference to the main point. He absolutely believed that our rights were granted by God and that our very freedoms depend on a citizenry that believe that.
Again, read what I said carefully. I did NOT say you were a lefty - NOR did I say you did not believe in God.
I said the Left is trying to undermine our Nation's belief in God and the notion that Jefferson expressed in "Notes on Virginia - Manners (query 18).
T
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich I said the Left is trying to undermine our Nation's belief in God"
Well, when you preach of virgin births, talking bushes, etc...................we are only trying to get you to be logical, rational and truthful to the evidence at hand, but the right doesn't want to do it. They would rather hold on to their fantasy land characters that make them feel all warm and cozy on the inside.
srexob715 7 months ago
@srexob715 You have the freedom to believe as you wish, but regardless of what you OR I believe, the FOUNDERS knew that a citizenry that believed was VITAL to our freedoms. Even Jefferson, one of the least religious of the founders, FLAT OUT said so.
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich Isn't it funny that IF what you said were true and that our beliefs in religion(god) were vital to our freedoms, then I wonder why women were not allowed to vote during a time when religion prevailed over our nation.
If our founders were so religious and if they used the religion to govern this country, then they governed and accepted the fact that women were treated unequally................which goes against your 'vital to freedom' argument
srexob715 7 months ago
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ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich And again. If what you said were true, then women would have been treated MORALLY via equality. SADLY, this is not the case!
srexob715 7 months ago
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@srexob715 As I said you can believe whatever fairy tail you want. I don't force my beliefs on you, please return the favor.
ToddAldrich 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich Who said I was trying to force my beliefs onto you. I am just showing you how wrong your beliefs are. If you are too scared to leave them, then that is up to you.
If you want to keep believing in things that are wrong, then go right ahead. But don't get mad when people laugh at your beliefs that have been proven wrong over and over again. You will only think we are attacking you, but this is only to save face!
srexob715 7 months ago
@ToddAldrich ''FOUNDERS knew that a citizenry that believed was VITAL to our freedoms''
Believed in what? And where did Jefferson say that? Citation please.
jfsfrnd 6 months ago
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@jfsfrnd Jefferson said THIS: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?"
ToddAldrich 6 months ago
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@jfsfrnd It is from "Notes on Virginia" it is in the 18th query called "manners" and he makes clear that our Nation is imperiled by ignoring God's law by continuing slavery. This passage explains WHY slavery was wrong. MAN had taken right that ONLY God has the jurisdiction to take.
etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefVirg.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=18&division=div1
ToddAldrich 6 months ago
Glenn Beck is lying like David Barton. Amazing that one of the few contributions of the ten-commandments, thou shall not bear false witness, is so easily brushed aside by these conjurers. Even Washington, who spoke of God often, only mentioned Jesus once, and not in any manner to indicate he was Christian. Jefferson certainly was not Christian, the Jefferson Bible being one example of the ample evidence. In the last sentence of the Jefferson Bible, Jesus dies. The End.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness I am a Christian, yet I don't speak and certainly don't write of Jesus nearly as much as I speak of God.
In fact I would assume that Washington was like most people. He didn't go around bludgeoning people with his beliefs, yet when asked he freely spoke. He was not a cleric, why would you expect him to write extensively on the subject? Answer: because you have an agenda to push and you are trying to fit the evidence to the agenda. In other words, YOU are the liar.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
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TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
Agreed, Washington was nothing like David Barton and Glenn Beck who do go around bludgeoning people with their beliefs. They are both dangerous Christian dominionists. My agenda is to resist dangerous liars like David Barton, and help prevent you from assassinating your own character by one more time attempting to turn Jefferson into a Christian.
TouchOfGreatness 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness Don't worry about me. I have actually read the entire works of Jefferson - and outside of a relatively short period of time, when his wife and daughters died while he was away from them, he was a practicing Christian.
If he wasn't, why did he waste all of his time in Church, and setting aside the capital for Church services?
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@TouchOfGreatness Dominionists!!! That is just a scary bedtime story your masters and brainwashers tell you to make you wet your little pink panties and keep you sucking on your thumb out of fear. That way they can better control you.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich I think you got it backwards, but if you are a barely literate Xtian, anything these douches feed you you accept at face value.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@ToddAldrich The Writings of Thomas Jefferson - Volume 16
Thomas Jefferson To Ezra Styles, June 25, 1819
''You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.''
jfsfrnd 7 months ago
@TouchOfGreatness Despite Jefferson's own words SAYING he was a Christian.
I like how you leftists like to tell other people what they believe!!
It doesn't matter to you what they actually say, you ALWAYS make things up to fit your worldview.
Christians want a theocracy here in the U.S. , Bush went into Iraq in order to steal their oil, The founding fathers intended that a "separation of Church and State" to be in our Constitution.
All lies made up to fit your worldview.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Actually, christians do want a theocracy. Are you really that ignorant?
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07
Well, this WELL CONNECTED Christian has ONLY heard such talk from idiot leftists. As I said before, it is something your leftist controllers use to manipulate you and make you wet your panties.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich HAHA wow. You must be that stupid, then. I guess you filter out the stupid shit that conservatives/christians say, also. Any country ran by a murderous god would be such a monstrosity. Oh wait, isn't it your religion that hates muslims? Wait, wait, wait, don't muslims believe in the same god as christians? I guess it'd be too illogical to think that christian extremists would blow up buildings. Oh shit, they have already. I guess your extremists are the same as muslim extremists.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Not at all - your leftist masters TELL you what they want you to think Christians think.
The ONLY time I hear anything referencing a theocracy is when you lefties are leaving little yellow puddles behind you.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"
One of my favorite Jefferson quotes.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
More right wing Xtian rubbish . Where in the bible is there anything like our Bill of Rights. All those European nations were Xtian too back then. So if freedom was all about believing in your little buddy Jesus, then those countries would all be as free as we are. Sorry, but outside your little subset of barely literate fakes like these two phonies in the video, you're just another self righteous paranoid crackpot. So keep repeating your nonsense because no reputable scholars takes it seriously
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@ToddAldrich Also, our government does advocate separation of church and state. You must be a moron.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 It does NOW, - actually since the Everson case, but our founders ABSOLUTELY did not interpret it the way it is being interpreted now!
Jefferson used the federal treasury to fund CHRISTIAN missionaries. Most states had RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENTS for their public officeholders.
OBVIOUSLY they interpreted the 1st amendment differently than you lefties do.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich HAHAHAHAHA! You really are that stupid. Have you ever read anything factual about U.S. history, like the first amendment or the Treaty of Tripoli? Beck doesn't teach you factual history, he teaches you his fucking pathetic agenda.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 HaHAHAHAAH are you really that stupid that you have to keep arguing against your made up straw-man arguments!?!?!?! NO ONE is denying the treaty of Tripoli - and no one wants a theocracy. You keep wetting your panties about a "threat" that exists only in the minds of you Christophobic leftists. Oh, and YOU should read the first amendment - it also says regarding religion, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". You guys always seem to forget that part.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich LOL when did anyone say you couldn't practice religion? I guess that would be Beck feeding you bullshit again. It's fine to practice religion, you just can't associate it with government. Also, if NO ONE is denying the Treaty of Tripoli, then EVERYONE should realize that we are not a christian nation! You're so stupid that it's not even funny.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Do you know what Free exercise means??? I think you better stop and think before you call anyone else stupid.
The Treaty of Tripoli was simply stating we are not a theocracy. We are a nation of laws not of Christian theology - and that is true. That does not mean our rights do not emanate from God.
And you STILL haven't dealt with the FACT that many states had a religious REQUIREMENT for public employees. The founding fathers had no issue with that!
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Actually, if our rights emanated from the christian god, killing would be advocated and abolished at the same time and homosexuals would not exist because they all would be dead. Some states still have a "religious" requirement for public office. South Carolina has a statute in it's constitution that prohibits an atheist from being government. This, as everyone should know, is unconstitutional.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Actually you are full of shit. Christians are COMMANDED to love the sinner.
You know NOTHING of Christianity outside of what your masters feed you to keep you in fear (and under control).
It was NOT Unconstitutional to have religious requirements at the time the Constitution was ratified. So, unless there has been an amendment to the Constitution that says that specifically, it STILL should not be unconstitutional. (there hasn't) STUPID? - yes, but not unconstitutional.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Have you ever read the bible? God clearly says to kill the non-believer and to kill homosexuals. I've read the bible. I have one next to me right now, actually. If you've read any of Deuteronomy 13, you know what god says about stoning non-believers.
Christianity is entirely about control by fear. Why do you think hell evolved into a place of eternal torture? The original christian hell was very similar to hades.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 You should go read it again. It is NOT about stoning non-believers, it is about stoning false prophets.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Deuteronomy 13: 6-9
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must...
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Deuteronomy 9-11 be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
This is most certainly about killing non-believers.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 "he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God".
false prophet
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 False prophets capt.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich No, those would be non-believers in the christian god.
This would be a false prophet: 1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
It's a prophet when the bible says prophet. When it doesn't say prophet, it just means a follower of another god, just like the bible says, you fucking idiot. It doesn't take a prophet to say "lets go worship other gods," it takes a believer in another, or a non-believer in christ
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich If you believe that section is solely about killing false prophets, then do you believe Deuteronomy 13: 12-18 are about killing a full town of false prophets? Or is it about killing a town of NON-BELIEVERS? Honestly, you have to be the dumbest christian I have ever talked to because, apparently, you don't understand the difference between the word "prophet" and "people who tell you to worship other gods."
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 It does not take a miracle or a vision to make someone a prophet. Look around the Bible it is always referring to false prophets and people who sow evil in the same context. Context means nothing to you idiots.
I LOVE how you liberals simply assign motives to people you have never met - and directly contradict their OWN writings - just like you did with Jefferson who flat out claimed he was Christian, you have the audacity to say wasn't!
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich You didn't answer my question. The people in verses 6-18 are not called prophets. It is simply said that they believed in a different god. They are not referred to as prophets as the person is verse 1 is. I LOVE how you just ignore simple fact, or decide thee truth isn't true just because of your faith. The bible is full of stuff like this that most believers ignore.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 and tried to recruit them to those other Gods. You are GROSSLY misrepresenting things.
We do not ignore these things - we know the context and liars like you simply try to smear us by using things just like this out of proper context.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 If a person is preaching in a pulpit and you say, "that person up there talking" instead of calling him a preacher does that mean he is not a preacher??? Give me a break! Talk about stupid!
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Why would one assume he has to be a preacher? Couldn't it be a member of the congregation that decided to preach for a bit? This does not make him an ordained minister.
If a person makes an arrest do we automatically call him/her a police officer?
They could be making a citizen's arrest.
Regardless, a false prophet is still a NON-BELIEVER in the christian god. Which means that they must be stoned to death.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07
If the actions are of a "preacher" or of a "false prophet" is there REALLY any difference for the point the chapter you referenced???
A false prophet can be a non-believer, but not all non-believers are false prophets!!! Christians are supposed to minister to non-believers not kill them.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich So basically what you're saying here is that that passage doesn't say to kill false prophets/non-believers? I though you agreed earlier that it does indeed say to kill them, because it so clearly does tell you to stone, kill, and burn their town to rubble.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 No, what I am saying is that very few non believers are false prophets! Sheese! Just because you are a non-believer does not mean you are a false prophet. (notice I said that twice this time so even you could get it?)
Do you have comprehension problems all of the time???
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich So then the whole town that god tells christians to kill in that passage are ALL false prophets according to you? If you're only supposed to kill false prophets (as you say) then the whole town that was murdered must have been solely filled with false prophets, correct? That is the only way what you're saying makes sense, because you keep contradicting yourself.
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Christians are supposed to minister to non-believers, like Christ himself did, like he commanded the apostles to. You are basing your hatred on a false assumption and a faulty interpretation of an old Testament book - ignorant of the fact that Christians follow the New Testament.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Christians follow the old testament as well, or they wouldn't think homosexuality is wrong. Jesus never says anything about homosexuality, yet christians still believe it's wrong because it is spoken against in the old testament. Which, according to you, christians do not follow/
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 Saying Christians follow the New Testament is different than saying Christians don't follow the Old Testament.
ToddAldrich 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich So then you do follow the old testament?
captnamrca07 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 who doesn't, well depends what book some books are naughty some are nice, santa is watching you
TheMiamifuentes 1 year ago
@captnamrca07 As Christians, we "acknowledge" the OT, but in light of the NT.
We read the OT with a clear understanding and firm conviction of what Christ accomplished on the cross. If one has no understanding of what Christ accomplished, then one is left to interpret the OT based on the light they DO have. (which isn't much light at all)
Before we can really appreciate and apply the information on a map, we must first be willing to admit that we are lost, and trust that the map is correct.
HeReformedMe 1 year ago
@ToddAldrich Oh I am so relieved, with wise people like you interpreting the bible, my civil rights are secured. More right wing Xtian bs/.
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago