Willow Creek Discovers Programs Don't Work Pt 3

[sphtu8]

What about fasting, praying and crying out before Almighty God for specific direction for each congregation?What about pouring over the Bible, where the character and will of God is revealed?If you LOVE God, you must HATE Godless, man-centered, ego-glorifying schemes!

[saowilin]

Where in the bible does it say to laugh and mock other pastors? Above all else, what is the biggest command in the bible? Does this mocker show LOVE? or does he try and exploit a follower of Jesus? To me this sounds more like a Pharisee. My prayers go to u Todd. That you may love in a way that is shown in the bible. To love others as yourself. and how is is biblical to not take surveys? however it is biblical to know your audience. Even the books of the bible are guided towards a group of people

[flycentro123]

I dont care about any of this, as someone who was raised in the church but went astray,, Bill Hybels has been such an influence and his messages such a blessing to helping me in my walk with Jesus. this man is obviously not wanting to encourage souls, but to spew his jealousy at the success and outreach that Willow Creek has experienced.

[readJames48]

LOVE Todd Friel!!!!!

[cmuller00]

For those of you who are turned off by the overlay comments to Pastor Hybels teaching, don't take him seriously. Some people will never be able to understand the Bible or be able to listen to truth and see how God speaks. This person needs has a right to say what he says, but he might never get how changing the deliver of God's message is so important because of changes in interpretation and meanings of words. We should be praying for him ... that God would allow him to hear and see.

[demenyzo]

how can a 5 years old kid feed himself with a word of God? and there is another thing: we dont need programs but we will do a new program to how to feed yourself?! Dah

I think this guy said a little to much. We need programs and we need to feed ourselves too. but we have to keep the balance. If you really want to grow, you have to read christian books and do some research. But a brand new christian wont do it. I did not do it when I saved years ago.

[CatherineMengue]

The Church is supposed to be there to preach the Gospel! Pfff Willow Creek really need Jesus! SAD!

[xenakiddle]

I'm not sure who Todd Friel is but his opinions are a sad distortion of Willow Creek. I crave the feast of Christianity it provides and I am fully nourished by it. My wife has known Bill Hybels for thirty years and she has never met a person more dedicated to inspiring people to Christianity in an honest, bible-inspired way. I looked at a website run by Mr. Friel and it makes him appear as a two-bit huckster trying to sell his own cheap version of Christianity. This is a sad case of sour grapes.

[xenakiddle]

As a former skeptic who truly found Jesus Christ through Willow Creek ten years ago, I found this smug misrepresentation of WC highly insulting. Biblical principles are never just "tossed in". They are a fundamental part of our service, as are prayer, song and praise. The programs are very successful in helping many people with various issues, nor have I ever felt pressure to be involved in one. Who's to say that the Holy Spirit does not convict through a kind word, a shared meal or a class?

[CatzEyes93]

Funny... it appears that once a church hits more than 5,000 members it goes from being a fabulous church to a horrible church? Get over yourself. It is a great church because they feed the people what their soul needs.

[Apeleutheros80]

You people need to look to the scriptures and not to some man made machine based on psycology, anthropology, and bogus statistics. There is One seeker and He is God! What He thinks is what matters! Not what you or any other man thinks! God didnt send His son that you can have all your ducks in a row. He came to save you and enable you to live here just as he live here. A servant is not greater than his master. He died! So we are dead with Him and our life is hid in Christ!

[cellebleu]

who is this troubled man making fun of such a christ centered man and such a wonderful church? what a hypocrite. willow creek is a wonderful place. this man needs prayer. I invite this man to willow.

[lookwhatgodcando]

HHMMMMM! Isn't Sunday School a "Program"?

[CatherineMengue]

Yes that's why we don't do anymore sunday school but Kids Church in some churches.

[bwwcpa]

If Jesus appeared to any pastor and said, "you have 2 yrs. before I come back." What would the next 104 sermons be about? A clear path to Christ would be explained with the opportunity to give your life to him right there and then. Well, we don't know when he's coming back, so shouldn't that be taught every Sunday. I think the church's that have it right have a balance of Truth and Grace.

[sigdor03]

This is a pretty snarky piece.

[PENWESTERN]

I like going there because no beedy little eyes watch as I refuse to tithe. I love their generosity and richness of heart. It is for seekers and I have been seeking all my life.

[jer2911]

Interesting. What have you been seeking? And I wonder why you haven't found it?

[bwwcpa]

Pen the only eyes that see you not tithing are God's. I think you are missing the point through your definition of seeker. Jesus said, seek and you shall find. When you are saved you have found. Seeker's are those seeking the truth. The saved have found the truth. So, are you saying you're not saved yet? Don't answer just think about it.

[craig4198]

Wow.Let me get something straight. This guy actually makes his living by having a radio show? Who pays to advertise during his programs? I would assume it to be Christian orgs/companies. Do they want to be associated with this clown?

I have news for you. The programs DO work at Willow. I am personally part of two of them. Yes, God gives me my desire to feed myself. and I do so by attending these programs.

God bless the shock jock, Ill be praying for you and that He find you a new line of work

[pwrmad572]

Bashing a guy like Bill Hybels?  This has to be the LEAST productive and MOST negative use of YouTube possible. View this video bashing Bill Hybels as simply one from an angry, jealous man too pitiful and cowardly to do great things for his community. Anyone can cut and paste an audio piece and add worthless, jealous criticism - not many do such good for humanity as Bill Hybels has.

[flycentro123]

wow, that someone would bash this Godly man,,, I grew up in the church and went away, but this guy is the real deal.. I saw it firsthand with a roomate who was in sin and now doesnt miss a service and is growing.

[equate12343]

Dear Mr. Kirk Cameron,

How can this guy with his judgement, criticism, and sarcasm - bash Mr. Hybels and edit audio and take words out of context? Is this what Way of The Master is about? Why? I'm shocked and disappointed.

[Actus7]

Bill Hybels & Rick Warren are False Teachers, Liars, Deceivers.

They are Leaders in the Great Falling Away, the Apostasy.

Flee from these Wolves !

[marcjulagay]

You are naive!!! Did the disciples become "self feeders" right away? Seems to me they had Jesus for 3 years before they were on their own. You aren't listening to what is being said. You don't like Hybels and grasping at something, anything to criticize.

[updawg2002]

Is this criticism supposed to be helping? I would love to see Todd Friel offer his criticisms to Bill Hybels in person. Hybels is one of the Godliest men I have ever encountered and God has used him to reach lost souls. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with meeting people where they are at and giving them every opportunity to meet and follow Jesus? Don't criticize the ministry that God has used and is using to further His kingdom.

[fswpro]

Brother, we are here to follow and surrender our lives to Jesus Christ, simply put. I understand your concerns, but the video and editing was shady and condescending at best.

What I must clear up is that the Reveal survey was held at 500 churches across the nation. The stats he gives is the profile of what works and what doesnt across the country.

Todd, according to those statistics, what should Willow have done? Or any other church for that matter? Adjust? Or continue the ignorance?

[strangerindakosmos23]

I'm sick and tired of programs and services. I'm tired of gimmicks and antics. I'm tired of churches meeting the needs of carnal men and women. Will the real Church please stand up?

[flagtube]

RIGHT. The CHURCH is NOT a Company.

SERVICES, SERVICES, etc. WE HATE THAT TYPE OF "CHURCH".

Willow Creek -- YOU ARE a living DEATH.

[dabears653746]

Wow take your head out of your ass.

[flagtube]

The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company. The CHURCH is NOT a Company.

[CSSTSMTH]

"Without sounding like a jerk."

Ha, good one!

Oh, by the way, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Just so you know.

[daveyharve]

Whats wrong with programs? Whats wrong with trying to think of strategies to reach as many people as possible with the good news of the gospel? Whats wrong with taking a survey to help you to do that?

Feed my sheep - does that mean pulling grass from the field and placing it in the sheeps mouth?

Please be careful how you speak of imperfect humans trying to follow the word of God. Remember that they too are in relationship with God, and so we'd do well not to judge.

[dallen2345]

You know programs are great if that is what God is telling you to do. What ever happened to letting the Holy Spirit direct our church ministries not some survey or corporate marketing garabage. Why do we even need God when we have all this marketing and ideas. What do we need the manifestations of Holy Spirit for. The time of the seeker sensitive church is diminishing.

[daveyharve]

I agree that we need to listen to the Holy Spirit. I would also be cautious to assume that the survey was not prompted by the Holy Spirit. Churches should be seeker sensitive, in that they should clearly explain the gospel without using too many big "King James" words, or at least explain any difficult terminology. But the truth is the truth, and it is enough in itself without gimmicks.

[CatherineMengue]

The wrong thing is that it's not godly... Pfff, read your bible and you'll maybe get to understand it is not to you to reach people but to the Holy Spirit. Your job is to preach the Gospel.

[GPLeague]

I'm with Todd. This is frustrating in so many ways. Was the Apostle Paul a clever deviser of man-made programs or did he just preach the word so that people would conclude that the gospel was either utter foolishness or the power of God unto salvation?

[kevinkko]

I find it so disappointing that Christians feel the need to criticize out of context other Christians. The fact is that most people don't naturally pickup and read their bibles - programs are necessary to be the catalyst for people to learn and grow. WCA and member churches do preach the word of God. Survey your church - how many new people have come recently? How many have turned to follow Christ? How many of those have truly learned what it means to have that relationship with Christ?

[jgrig2]

It was in context and the criticicism is not of the people but the theology and entire metanatative of the ideas.

[dallen2345]

Don't survey let the Holy Ghost tell you what your congregation needs.

[WaitHuhSayWhat]

This is what the *bible* says (words from Jesus' own mouth)...

In John 21:15-17(KJV) Jesus tells Peter to "Feed my lambs", "Feed my sheep," and again "Feed my sheep." Three times Jesus instructs Peter of his calling as a shepherd(pastor) of the flock. Teaching(feeding) the word of God to the congregation(flock) is the most emphasized instruction given. It is sad to see how un-biblical churches are becoming and how far churches are going away from our authority, the word of God!!!

[diligentile]

good points ccreid2!

[ccreid2]

Thank-you diligentile. Also thank-you for your post concerning this whole matter at WC. Keep up the good work brother!

[ccreid2]

May all of you be an honour and blessing to your King as we try to finish our race well!

God bless you

Curtis

"That very church which the world likes best is sure to be that which God Abhors"

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, How Saints May Help The Devil -- July 24, 1859

[ccreid2]

The Fruit of the Spirit needs to be sought and flowing through us at all times for those of us called to expose this "apostasy" attacking our Kings beloved Church. Remember our "ambassadorship" is of the utmost as God calls upon us to stand in his truth at this time in the name of Jesus Christ.

[ccreid2]

My sense is that Todd really does love all his brothers and sisters in Christ caught-up in this, but the issue itself has really become so frustrating and repulsive to him that he now struggles to have patience when dealing with this whole area himself.

To be honest once the Holy Spirit provides revelation to someone regarding this whole area of deception, Todd's reaction is quite understandable but perhaps still not wise?

[ccreid2]

I applaud our brother Todd for his courage to publicly address this most serious issue affecting the Church. However, I would also encourage him in the future to address this matter by displaying a greater sensitivity towards those who are yet to "overcome" this deception.

[ccreid2]

Sadly it is most likely WC and its leaders will repeat the same mistakes under some slightly new methods/programs while inadvertently leading much of the Flock astray. Perhaps even more frightening is some of the stuff coming out of the Purpose Driven Movement at present.

Quite simply this Apostate Deception is so large within the "Church" that the Word itself not only prophesied that it would come, but God has warned us all with a call to overcome and repent accordingly.

[ccreid2]

Satan's greatest weapon has and still is "deception". The road to destruction is paved with good intentions...unfortunately Willow Creek has become a massive example/victim of this. Those true brothers and Sisters in Willow Creek need to read once again the lessons contained (for all of us) in the book of Judges.

[ccreid2]

I pray we can all serve our King wisely at this time. This issue is so much bigger then WC and it is certainly no laughing matter. It is time for us to understand that we are "The Church" and that we do not "go to Church"! When did this turn from being about the "health" of the Flock" to the "size" of Flock? When did this go to being about men leading the Church and not Jesus leading his Church?

[ccreid2]

Some Biblical Food For Thought Concerning This Whole Matter: Acts 17:11

Galatians 6:12, Luke 6:26, Act 20:28-31, Matthew 24:11, Matthew 24:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Luke 21:8, Mark 13:22, 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Peter 2:12-22, 1Timothy 4:1, 1 Corinthians 10:20, 2 Corinthians 6:14, Ephesians 5:11, 1 John 1:6, 1 Corinthians 3:18, Ephesians 5:6, 2 Corinthians 11:2-4, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Acts 17:11, Matthew 24:11, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

[albright39]

Only time will tell if Hybels, Willow Creek and the Willow Creek Association will make its changes. Just because one makes an admission of error means the error will be fixed. Sometimes such admissions are only acts of piety intended for the purpose of looking good and not genuine acts of repentance.

[MusicMuze]

Did WCCC make a mistake? Yes. Did they let their pride stop them from admitting this? No. Does that take a lot of humility? Yes. A leader who admits mistakes & changes? There's precious little of that in the world. Isn't the greatest sin pride? Todd, I found your opinion specious, hyperbolic and supercilious. And that had me ROFL. I will check out WCCC now. The church is organic; it is made up of imperfect people, so there will always be mistakes. It's childish/naive to believe otherwise.

[johntwfhm]

Did not know this... I've been to these conferences before, but I can no longer stomach them. It appears they are trying to feed on the "wisdom" of the world rather than feeding on God's word. I guess this is what happens when you try to run a church like a business instead of... well, like a church.

[ehoelter]

Todd-you are truly wasting your time. Your tone is so bitter and critical that your message is completely lost. NO church is perfect. However, Willow Creek has had a GLOBAL impact like no other church I have seen. It is bitter, inwardly focused, negative people like yourself that this church was never intending to reach. Therefore you will never understand it. Please-find something more productive to do with your time than throw darts at people who are trying to make a difference in this world.

[diligentile]

His passion is that God be glorified in the Church and the Church not be run by marketing strategies and polling but upon the Word of God that has once and for all been delivered to the saints.

[ehoelter]

Todd has obviously never set foot into this church as he did not know the name or where it was located. Having attended almost my entire life, I can vouch that the church is guided by a plurality of Godly leaders. Their intention is never to deceive but to spread the Message of Christ in the most effective manner. Contrary to this video, they are not trying to put people off. He should try visiting.

[diligentile]

He knows about Hybels books and his sermons are readily available to listen to.

The most effective manner is not always God's way. We should ask, 'what does the scriptures say, and not 'what works, what is pragmatic'

His programs have been criticized for years because of this and now we find out those critiques were true.

[ehoelter]

Boy if I only had a penny for every criticism that has been thrown at my church over the years.

Rather than hiding behind a computer and an ego-centric radio personality, why don't you make a trip to Chicago and see for yourself?

Where in the Bible does it say the church should think and act the same way they did hundreds of years ago?

I suggest that churches should focus on the Great Commission instead of tearing down other churches and defaming leaders.

[CatherineMengue]

I've been involved in a church like Willow Creek, people had the same desire to "preach the gospel, reach the lost" blablabla... pfff, the only thing they did to me was to fill my head with junk. The Word is supposed to be pure, nothing else than that and I honestly regret I've been there and thank God for the journey I've been able to go trough. The only thing I appreciate is that out of that, I learned a lot about worship.

[ehoelter]

Based on this person's reputation, it is obvious he is making a living by causing division within the Body of Christ. I pray that this evil radio show is cancelled so that no more people can be led astray. He will be better suited to return to sharing a stage with Ellen Degeneres as a stand-up " comedian" although I believe you must be funny to do that...

[diligentile]

Did Jesus cause division when He told Peter, 'get behind me satan' ?

When the Church becomes man-centered we must stand up for truth, even when it comes to exposing error and rebuking.

[philliplovelady]

@ehoelter - I find it interesting that when the "seeker sensitive," types have no argument they only criticize someone's "tone." I'm sure the seekers would like to take several pages out of the Bible. Like Psalm 139: 19-24.

[mapliopl]

It's sad, really. When people like me preach that the devil's primary work is the work of deception, making people believe they are following Christ, when in fact, they are being completely mislead from a true relationship with Christ amidst all the fancy little programs these types of churches offer, I get the famous cringe and disregard.

[stant6]

good video.

[kisstheclowns]

I want to take a leak in Willow Creek. We'll see how they stand before the throne of Christ. I think He will "barf" them out.

[ReformedLou]

I think Willow Creek needs a visit from the Gospel Coalition crew.

[ReformedLou]

Wow, this gentleman (Mr. Hybels) seems to be inserting himself into the role of our Lord in Numbers 11, during the early part of this clip. Feeding them the "meat of the word" "'til they barf"?