Mormon Missionary Apologizes to Roman Catholics

[uplate6674]

I'm not saying Catholicism is any less arbitrary, but I'm quite certain that one can lead a moral life outside the strictures of a church. My church, your church, anyone's church. They have codes one can choose to abide by, but one's personal choice to do so doesn't mean everyone else is a degenerate.

[uplate6674]

I find it amusing that people who believe that a 13-year-old boy has "priesthood' authority over his 40-year-old mother solely due to his age and gender are telling others that the arbiter of a church's validity is whether or its members drink alcohol.

[uplate6674]

Years ago, I got thoroughly tanked at the Saturday night party during a Catholic social justice retreat at a Franciscan monastery, along with most of the attendees and some of the priests. Real priests who had been to seminary, not 13-year-old boys. We all got up early the next day and went to Mass and shopped for theology books in the bookstore. We left having made concrete plans to put our faith into action. Nothing wrong with cutting loose one night a week. God has bigger fish to fry.

[uplate6674]

OK, people: if the wine in Jesus' time was close to grape juice, why was everyone at the wedding so happy and amazed when he turned water into wine? They wouldn't have been unhappy when the wine ran out if it had been a substance with no alcohol. I don't drink alcohol myself, but the sanctimonious way some of you talk about it being morally depraved is way over the top. Most people who drink alcohol in moderation suffer no ill effects.

[iqlusionblogspot]

@uplate6674

It's funny now, but when I was growing up in the LDS Church, I was actually taught (and believed) that Jesus's wine was just grape juice. (No drunk Romans or Jews in Jerusalem, I guess!) This is how Mormons reconciled the Word of Wisdom's prohibition of strong drink with the stories in the New Testament.

When you're in the LDS Church, you have no idea how much you've lost your grip on reality, partly because you surround yourself with people who believe similarly.

[uplate6674]

(Continued) ^ By "you" in the previous column, I don't mean the person who posted the video, but the LDS church. The evasiveness of the LDS member when I asked that question several times makes it pretty obvious, though

[uplate6674]

Huh. That explains why you tried to rebaptize Pope John Paul II after he died (which is horribly offensive to Catholics). I've been trying to get an answer out of a Mormon on another video's comment thread, and he keeps dodging it by saying Christ said all must be baptized to go to heaven. I keep asking why someone who'd been baptized into a Christian denomination while alive would need another baptism while, and s/he will not admit the LDS church doesn't view the Catholic church as legit.

[CaineJared]

I am proud to say that i am LDS and i have had an incredible amount joy in my church. I can't wait to turn 19 and share this joy with the world as a missionary.

[Jinxterman69]

Good for you, son. You did the right thing by creating and posting this video. So glad you have seen the light, even though it was likely a difficult transition. I, too, was once in your shoes...but am sooooooo much happier now.

[NewsyJackal]

is it true that Mormons refuse drinking in public, but there is a bar and a "drunk room" inside the temple? That's so weird. they should get drunk out in the open.

[nmbluegrass]

Silly buffoons, reveling in their superstitious and unfounded beliefs.

[VictorLepanto]

Thlugh I'd like to address the over all theme of this video. While in one sense, I believe the LDS Church makes poor & often cynical use of these young men, I admire their commitment & the standards that are expected of them as witnesses. We Catholics should (in part & in a different way) copy them. There is a cynical "cold calling" like aspect to sending these boys out I find that distasteful. We should challenge the young to go out & do real active service for the Church.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto I'm a convert to the LDS church and I must admit I probably wouldn't have answered the door if missionaries came knocking--I was a woman alone and not wanting to be "bugged" about religion. I learned about the Church all on my own, studying, pondering and praying. I then went to church with some Mormon friends, and THEN contacted the missionaries to ask how to be baptised! I was baptised when my first baby was 6 weeks old! He served a mission a few years ago!

[cindybin2001]

I usually don't put down other faiths, but one thing about the Catholic church drives me bananas, to the point where I KNOW it is not the true church! It's that they think nothing is wrong with using alcohol! I found a Catholic website where they had an activity for single adults called "Theology on Tap" where you met at a local bar to "enjoy your favorite beer and listen to a great Catholic speaker." I couldn't believe my eyes!!! I thought it was a joke!!! Nobody should use alcohol!

[cindybin2001]

So as I was saying (darn character limit!), this Catholic church that holds the activitie for single adults at a BAR, that is just TERRIBLE!!! A church is supposed to teach you to stay AWAY from bars and drinking, not hold events centered around these things! Otherwise what is a church FOR??? And all the Catholics I've talked to online see nothing wrong with alcohol! Same with Lutherans! That alone tells me it's not the true church! I could NEVER join a church like that!!!

[cindybin2001]

@cindybin2001 Oh, and then they use the same old excuses: "Jesus drank wine" and "There's nothing wrong with drinking as long as you do it responsibly." Oh brother. First of all, nobody is drinking wine or any other booze to be more like Jesus, and secondly, that's like saying it's okay to smoke pot "responsibly" or "in moderation." People who would NEVER smoke pot because "drugs are bad" think nothing of using a mind-altering drug in the form of alcohol. Drives me nuts.

[FlowRider4life]

@USAConservative2012 by definition any religious group is a cult

[ChulaKirby]

I love when the Mormon missionaries come to my door. It gives me a chance to share the truth with them and to get them thinking.  I guess that is why they no longer send them to my door. I sometimes see them riding down the road a few blocks away and think about pulling them over to speak with them.

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby I'm a convert to the LDS church, and my older son was a missionary a few years ago. He found it very rewarding! He is married now and he and his wife are active in the church. I'm sure he would have liked to talk to you about the church--he had alot of very interesting discussions when he was a missionary!

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 What did you convert from?

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby Well I grew up Episcopalian because of my family, but I was never really into it or any other religion.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 And do you believe the Bible which the Catholic Church shared with the world?

[ChulaKirby]

Cindy, when you were a reporter, how did you verify if a story was true or not? Did you have a ranking or way of determining what were high ranking sources of accurate information and what was suspect or needed more verification from more accurate sources before you reported it as true or not?

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby Some things we just have to take by faith. That includes the LDS church. We don't know everything, we don't know all the answers. I took Moroni's Promise years ago and have worked hard to strengthen my testimony. I can't imagine being a member of any other church. Heck, just knowing that a church has "coffee hour" or that it's members think nothing is wrong with using alcohol makes me KNOW they are not the true church. I could never be a member of one of those "mainstream" churches.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 So if you were a reporter you would believe anything they told you without any evidence or presentation of the facts? I'm not sure that is faith. So the true church is recognized and found by looking to see who drinks coffee and who doesn't? I know Paul said the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3: 15 and Jesus said he would build a Church and the gates of hell (hades) would not overcome it Matt 16: 18 Do you read the Bible?

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby Of course I wouldn't believe anything they told me without evidence and facts. And yes, the true church is found by seeing who drinks coffee and who doesn't. In MY opinion at least! Haha. Seriously, that alone is an indicator. And knowing that they drink alcohol. How could I POSSIBLY join a church that doesn't understand why these are wrong? And yes, I read the Bible. Mormons do. Although I haven't had much time lately! Lol.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 Is it just drinking coffee beans? What about pinto beans, green beans, jelly beans, etc? Is it okay to smoke the coffee beans or grind them up and create a mist and inhale them or use a needle to inject them? What is it in coffee that is so bad that the true Church does not drink it? I am serious about what other kinds of beans are forbidden to be drunk or ate.

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby Nah, you can have jelly beans, etc. But there are chemicals and such in coffee and tea that aren't good for you. In any case, I always knew it wasn't right to drink coffee or tea. These things are for "grownups". And I never wanted to be a grownup in that sense of the word. If we don't give these to kids, we should know it's not good for adults, either. Now you'll tell me that tea is healthy, etc. All things I've heard a million times before. Right?

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 Wrong. By your logic,anything not good for you should not be eaten, drank, or smoked. I guarantee you if you were to eat nothing but jelly beans everyday you would have some serious health problems. Same thing with most other stuff. God created all the tree and plants and animals and gave them all to us to eat from except the tree of knowledge (Genesis). So you believe the true Church diet is everything except coffee and alcohol. Dietary laws sound like a fall back to Moasiac Law

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby Thank you for telling me I'm wrong! I shall leave this wacky cult immediately! Actually, one of the things that attracted me to the church all those years ago was knowing that Mormons don't smoke, drink alcohol, tea or coffee, etc. I had to find out more, what was the reason behind their beliefs. The more I studied, the more I knew I had to join this church. I could never be a member of any other church.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 I said wrong because you said "Right?" I didn't want to mislead you into thinking I was in agreement with you because I am not. Not sure what a cult is and isn't so I will not comment there. As far as wacky, I'm not sure there besides the fact that the argument is wacky to me. In 19th and 20th century this argument might have had some attraction. I remember when I was young the emphasis in Protestant circles was if you smoked or drank alcohol...........

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 Today they still say those things while they are fornicating, divorcing and remarrying, living together and having same sex relationships. My point is this. jelly beans can be just as bad for your health as tea or coffee or meat. It sounds like a dietary law to me. Tea or coffee or majania or tobacco are just like any other chemical besides having a cultural bias. i have never read anywhere in the Bible where God forbade the drinking of coffee or tea.

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby Oh for heavens sake. Yes I know jelly beans can be bad for your health. I avoid them because of the sugar and also because I just plain don't like them. But jelly beans are a whole different matter than tea and coffee and meat, etc. And yes, I know it doesn't say in the Bible about coffee or tea. That's why we have the restored LDS church and The Word of Wisdom! Isn't it great! I always knew it wasn't right to drink coffee and tea, anyway. Even before I was a Mormon.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 Restored? Could you please explain.

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby This is part of the basic history of the church, which explains how the original church established by the Apostles would fall into apostacy, and the true church would be restored upon the Earth. We believe the LDS church to be the restored church, with the fulness of the gospel.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 would fall or did fall? When do they tell you it happened?

[cindybin2001]

@ChulaKirby It did fall into apostasy, as predicted by the apostles. If you read A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, by LeGrande Richards, he goes into more detail about this, and why a restoration of the true church was necessary.

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 When? And was it the true Church that fell into apostacy? Where in the Bible did the apostles say the Church would fall into apostacy?

[ChulaKirby]

@cindybin2001 Was it the true Church before it fell or after it was restored?

[TheSvh9497]

lds church is a great church there nothing to be sorry about and catholics are offened i am catholic

[ddoody]

It seems very disrespectful of other people's beliefs for Mormons to go around spreading Mormonism, especially in Catholic countries such as Italy and Latin America where most people are Catholic. Basically these missionaries are saying that the beliefs of the people of these lands is wrong. I am offended by that.

[adam3251]

@ddoody How do you think that those countries got to be Catholic? MISSIONARIES. Get your head out of your ass please.

[majinish]

@ddoody "Basically these missionaries are saying that the beliefs of the people of these lands is wrong."

To make it short and simple, yes it is wrong.

[cindybin2001]

@ddoody Well the thing is, it IS wrong!!! I'm a convert to the LDS church and the thing that started the Mormon church was Joseph Smith asking which church to join. He was told to not join any of them, that they were all wrong. The LDS church is the restored gospel, it has the fulness of the gospel. Of course it doesn't mean we go around saying other people are "WRONG"--if you are a Christian we are HAPPY for you. But it just means that we have the FULNESS of the gospel and want to share it.

[cindybin2001]

@ddoody I'm a convert to the LDS church, and it is a Biblical thing to try and spread the gospel. It's not disrespectful at all. The missionaries are just trying to help people, help spread the fulness of the gospel.

[VictorLepanto]

I'm a Roman Catholic & I am hardly bothered by LDS missionaries. I appreciate the chance to explain the teachings of the Church. The missionaries who visited me while I was being treated in the convalescent center never gave me a chance to ask them about their views. They wanted to give me a copy of the BoM, but I had one from a previous visit so I asked for a copy of Doctrine & Covenants instead. Neverr heard back from them.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto I'm a convert to the LDS church. I usually don't put down other religions, I just focus on my own, but it just drives me nuts that Catholics think nothing is wrong with using alcohol! I could NEVER be a Catholic, for that reason alone! Just like I couldn't be a Lutheran or Presbyterian or a member of any church which doesn't teach that it's wrong to use alcohol! And then they use the excuse, "Jesus drank wine." That drives me nuts. Nobody should use alcohol, it's a drug.

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: But Jesus DID use alcohol. Not only did He use it, He made it gave it to others. Go do a Bible study on all the Bible says about alcohol, it is highly favorable. As for not using drugs. Do you use aspirin?

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto I'm so tired of arguing about this. Okay. Yes, Jesus used alcohol. He drank it, that makes it right, we should all drink booze, it's good for you. And yes I use aspirin, so that makes me a hypocrite when I say we shouldn't use drugs like alcohol. Thank you for enlightening me. I'm dropping out of the LDS church immediately so I can start drinking booze and living a better life. Liquor store here I come!

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto And yes, it's WONDERFUL to use alcohol. I would NEVER smoke pot, heaven's no, but using a mind-altering drug in the form of alcohol is TOTALLY different, because alcohol is LEGAL therefore it must be right, and JESUS DRANK WINE. And the BIBLE says it's good to drink booze. Never mind about my hobbies that help me relax and unwind. It's better to drink booze to relax and enjoy life. That's what growups do! It sets a very good example, using a drug like alcohol! And it's HEALTHY!

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto Also, I want to drink booze because I'm dying to increase my risk of breast cancer, liver and rectum cancer, which studies show alcohol does even in low doses. I also want to damage my brain cells. I've been missing out so much on life, but thanks to Internet people who inform me that Jesus drank wine and that the Bible endorses using this chemical, I am FREE to finally drink booze! Oh the joy, the freedom at last!! I can hardly wait to fog my mind with a psychoactive drug!!

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: You are obviously confused about a great many things. You'd do well to look up the definition of "psychoactive." As for the Bible you obviously don't make a habit of reading it. Even St. Paul advised his disciple Timothy to drink wine. I have to wonder what kind of a Catholic you were. Obviously a poorly educated one. Have you never heard of the Wedding Feast of Cana?

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto No, YOU look up the term psychoactive. Go to any drug abuse website, you'll see that alcohol is the most widely used and abused psychoactive drug in the world! It is a highly-addictive psychoactive drug! A toxin! Just because it's legal doesn't make it right! And I was never a Catholic! I grew up Episcopalian and experimented with booze in my immature college days to be bad and cool, but I outgrew all that by the time I was 20! A few years later I joined the LDS church!

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto And no I am not "confused about a great many things." It just drives me nuts when CHRISTIANS put down a person who tries to help people understand why it's not good to drink booze! And they use the same excuses over and over, about Jesus drank wine, and "everything in moderation." Would you smoke pot? Heck no. Yet you think it's okay to use a mind-altering drug in the form of alcohol? You're after the same "buzz" a pot-smoker would get, and you know it!

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto And it's been written on here a million times how the wine in Biblical days was not as we know it today, it was more like grape juice. In any case, we have The Word of Wisdom TODAY, and it is here to help us physically and spiritually. We aren't supposed to use alcohol. You shouldn't even have to be LDS or religious to know that, it's just common sense! A grown adult should be WELL PAST the age where they want to use a DRUG to enjoy life, relax and unwind, etc. Ridiculous!

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: Nonsense doesn't become less nonsensical simply by weight of constant repetition. Alcohol is alcohol, it wasn't was the same chemical then as it is now. God made it, of course Mormons don't believe in a creator God, they just believe in a mere manipulator of our small world. Obviously Jesus & St. Paul disagreed w/ you. As did Moses when he set the rules for the Passover & other Jewish rituals. As did Abraham & Melchezedek, both used wine. As for the WoW, even Smith dissed it.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto Okay, I give up. You're obviously going to believe what you want, no matter what I say. Man, Christians like you drive me bananas. As I've said, you shouldn't even have to be a Christian to know that using a mind-altering drug like alcohol is wrong. It should be common sense. But drink as much booze as you want. It's your choice. I tried to help you.

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: All I'm doing is pointing out to you that it was NOT "common sense" to either Jesus or St. Paul or Moses. I am sorry if I regard them as superior authorities to you or your Smith & Young. You do know that Smith ran a bar out of his house & led his male followers in regularly getting drunk, don't you? There are contemporary records of this Mormon sources. Young ran the biggest brewery for beer in Utah in his day.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto We don't know exactly what happened back then, and even if this all were true, it doesn't mean we should use alcohol today. We have the Word of Wisdom today, to help us physically and spiritually. Even if we didn't have the Word of Wisdom, we as adults should just know better than to drink booze. This should be a basic doctrine in any Christian church, but it ISN'T!! FAR too many Christians think nothing is wrong with consuming alcohol, and they honestly think it's GOOD for you!!!

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: Alcohol is good for you, it is also bad for you. As I've stated before, everything has benefits & detriments. It is a matter of prudence to weigh costs & benefits & come to a reasoned conclusion. Jesus, St. Paul & Moses (& actually Solomon & David) all recommended alcohol in moderate amounts. Please don't be too offended if you regard them & their sacred scriptures as superior to you & your blog. As for Smith & YOung, what the did is matter well known records.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto Yes, we know that there are health benefits to alcohol. At least that's what some people SAY. But the risks far outweigh any supposed benefits. And again, even if alcohol were healthy, just the fact that it's a mind-altering drug makes it wrong. 

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto I can't help but think that if CHRISTIANS can't understand why it's wrong to use a mind-altering drug in the form of alcohol, then what hope is there for the REST of the world?? But you shouldn't have to be Christian to know this is wrong. It's just common sense. And then I've mentioned all the health risks. But that doesn't bother you a bit, does it. Not even the study that shows that low doses of alcohol greatly increase a women's risk of breast and other cancers.

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: There are many studies that have found a great many things. The clear link b/t alcohol & LOWER risks of heart disease has been shown in far more studies. Everything has risks & benefits. It is a matter of weighing them prudently. Jesus & St. Paul & Moses obviously thought the benefits out weighed the detriments. It is a shame THEY couldn't have been as good of a Christian as you are. You will have to pray for them & me as I choose to follow their bad example.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto Obviously you haven't read a single thing I've written. You haven't even seen any of my numerous blog articles about the health risks of alcohol and how there are all these conflicting studies. I ALREADY KNOW about these studies showing how alcohol is a wonder drug that will keep you healthy forever!! Oh this makes me so mad!!! As I've said a million times, even if alcohol were healthy, just the fact that it's a mind-altering drug makes it wrong!

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: Sominex is a "mind altering drug" as sleep is an altered mental state. Many things are mind altering, as w/ all things, it is a matter of degree. One can have a glass of wine w/ a meal & it is good & healthy. Moses commanded us to do as much w/ his prescription for the Passover. Jesus also had the same thing happen at the wedding feast in Cana. It might be sinful to be inebriated, but gluttony is also sinful. It doesn't follow from this that to eat is a sin.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto No a glass of wine with a meal is NOT good and healthy! It's a toxin! It poisons cells! Even in low doses alcohol significantly increases the risk of breast cancer in women, along with liver and rectum cancer! Even if it were healthy, it's still a mind-altering DRUG!!! That alone makes it wrong! And you just keep telling yourself things like "Sominex" is a mind-altering drug, etc. Just keep making excuses.

[VictorLepanto]

@cindybin2001: As is true of any thing else you might eat at the meal. Meats have saturated fats, vegetables have fats (including saturated ones) & carbohydrates. These things also can kill you. Also vegetables contain sugars that will kill a diabetic if taken to excess. That is the word: EXCESS. It is to be contrasted w/ the term: moderation. The Bible recommends alcohol consumption, I choose to believe what GOD has told me in HIS word, not you. Sorry.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto Oh brother. You just keep making excuses, don't you. Here you are a grown adult, a CHRISTIAN who should know better, and you will try to justify using alcohol in any way you can, just to get that good feeling one gets from using a mind-altering drug. Even with everything I told you. It just doesn't sink in. You won't accept it. Why am I not surprised? Nobody ever does. Everyone in the LDS church understands PERFECTLY why we shouldn't use alcohol! But of course you don't.

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto Man people like you drive me nuts. Always touting the health benefits of booze. Anything to justify that good feeling you get from a psychoactive drug. You don't have the morals or common sense to know that using a psychoactive drug is wrong. And then you put down people who stand up for it. Real good example you set. A grown adult wanting to use a DRUG to enjoy life, relax and unwind, celebrate, socialize, etc. What a thing to do. You should know better!

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto And then you just keep bringing up the "Jesus drank wine" excuse. I've ranted about that for YEARS on the Internet! Again, obviously you haven't seen a single thing I've written. You know, when I chastise people for using marijuana, their number one excuse is, "Pot is safer than alcohol." As if that makes it right! We shouldn't smoke pot OR drink alcohol! They are both psychoactive drugs! A grown adult should know better!

[cindybin2001]

@VictorLepanto So anyway, you go ahead and drink all the booze you want. Just keep believing it's good for you and that because Jesus drank wine it makes it okay to use a mind-altering drug. Don't listen to an idiot like me who obviously hasn't done ANY research and who is clueless when it comes to spiritual matters. Just keep setting a good example and using a DRUG, a highly-addictive toxic one at that, to celebrate, relax and unwind, etc.

[PistisIasis]

Check out Isaiah bennet :D

[EphraimLDS]

lol

[andrewewaters]

Wonderful!

[iqlusionblogspot]

After two years of proselyting, it's the least I could do. I'll keep doing what I can.

[saggley]

Thank you