Sweelinck's Fantasia Chromatica in Werckmeister tuning

[somnynightin78]

I really hate this bashing of equal temperament. Obviously when any temperament is used out of context it will sound strange, and that goes for meantone temperament with extreme chromaticism, which equal temperament does best at.

[kratanuva725]

@somnynightin78 That's arguable. I tend to think that in ANY type of classical or jazz music a well temperament is always preferable. Not necessarily werckmeister, but something closer to equal like Lehman-Bach temperament. The only reason equal is better at anything is because of practicality's purpose, not because it sounds better, or allows you to play more chromatic music.

[Sakurazuka1999]

This 3 videos for comparing 3 temperaments are excellent !

Thank you for this contribution. I'm not very fond of meantone on a harpsichord (but I love it on pipe organ ) but one thing is clear with this demonstration :

equal temperament for baroque music is nothing but an heresy.

When JS Bach has composed BWV 534 in f moll, he did not choose f moll at random, it's BECAUSE f moll sound so dark in unequal temperament. Play it in equal temperament and you loose everything.

[JoelvanLennep]

An excellent performance of this wonderful old favorite; thank you. The harpsichord sounds ideal (despite its greater air volume due to ravalement), and the Werckmeister tuning is a good compromise system as well. It makes sense for this music, although I like the gritty "hyper-dissonances" afforded by 1/4 comma mtn. too. I'm afraid that I already intend to give the = temp. example the dodge. Sorry, I've had quite enough of it over countless decades. Thanks for posting this; I like your playing!

[TouchSensitive]

I use a Korg MA80 as a guide. It offers about a dozen different temperaments.

[ericoschmitt]

how did you tune it? any kind of tuner, or with your ears?

[fulltimepassgiri]

Werckmeister sounds proper classical. Something you can imagine going in the background while watching the History channel. Mean tone version of this sounds like maybe what Led Zep. would have used. Just my opinion.

[kratanuva725]

I would just like to say that I love this peice.

I don't like much baroqe music, so that says something. The tone of this harpsichord is also phenominal! :)

Also, anyone who thinks that bach used equal temperment is a fool, It isn't called the WELL tempered clavier for nothing...

[OceanderTethyseus]

wow - fantastic!!

so amazingly beautiful.

it entrances.

[zyxonian]

Could you make another video using the Bach/Lehman tuning?

[maxwellsteer]

2 answers. 1, I dont know what this is. 2, Im now onto other projects.

[zyxonian]

Darn, I am too late.

Apparently, there is a gentleman named Bradley Lehman who recently discovered a possible temperament that Bach created and used for his compositions that had been previously unknown by scholars. There is still debate whether it is authentic, but the essay is convincing. you should google for it. The essay is called Bach's Extraordinary Temperament: Our Rosetta Stone.

it comes in two parts. The first is his reasoning for its authenticity. The second is its application.

[latribe]

@maxwellsteer That was diplomatic!

[latribe]

@zyxonian Hi! The Lehman tuning is far from principles that would be attributable to Bach or any of the romantic composers who until late in the 19th century exploited a genre of temperaments which gave purity to the white keys at the expense of those with increasing accidentals. The effects were documented by Christian Schubart's Ideen zu einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst (1806). Lehman's temperament does not produce those results: it's based on upside down interpretation. Kirnberger is good.

[kurtcomet]

Pardon my ignorance. But can we say that werksmeister tuning is 'closer' to equal temperament than the meantone tuning? It sounds like that to me. Thanks!

[maxwellsteer]

Yes. When the increasing use of chromaticism in the 18thC gave rise to a general dissatisfaction with meantone, a wide range of theorists offered individual 'solutions' which stop short of equal temperament (because everyone agreed that it was ugly & bland) in order to preserve something of the differing scale characters that arise within unequal temperament. Thus W is one of the 'nearly equal' temperaments. It works for the more common keys, but not for Ebm or G#m

[venatorivs]

@maxwellsteer

Interesting, because eventually almost the whole world settled for equal temp. Can you provide me an answer why Bach is hailed for introducing equal temperament despite musicians objecting to it?

[maxwellsteer]

@venatorivs The answer to this (if there is a definitive one) is analogous to the adoption of A=440 & GMT. They were the new modern /scientific /rational approach appropriate to The Enlightenment age.

[venatorivs]

@maxwellsteer I can agree to that answer, but my point was actually that Bach did not live in that time... He was quite ahead of that. The industrial revolution started out 40 years after his death. GMT was adopted in 1847. Events not contempory to Bach's live... In a way he is special, a true pioneer. BUT, was he appreciated for his endevours at the time? Something I cannot find in any text yet. Recognition yes, certainly now. But did he change the world back then? :)

[maxwellsteer]

@venatorivs Bach didnt change the world: even before his death he was dismissed as old-fashioned with incomprehensible ideas in the new, light galante taste shared by his sons CPE & JC - tho Mozart knew 'the 48'. However equal temperament was an idea whose time came with the rise of the piano & the other practical & psycho-social factors mentioned. Only after Mendelssohn's revival of the St Matthew Passion was Bach's true stature & pioneering work acknowledged. See my recordings of 'the 48' here

[suffiice]

thanks for these, really helpful

[TheLoadAbove]

Very nice !

[symphoma]

very interesting. Werckmeister sounds somewhat antique... it shows some tuning issues but is not overly offensive. The meantone made my hair stand on end, and i will listen to equal temperament next.

Thanks for doing this!