@firebadger101 I know it must be hard when all the world, all those Uni grads don't have a clue but a idiot with a keyboard and a blog page works it out. I just wish I was as smart as you.
So by your analogy, China is actually worse off now that they've been opening up to free trade for the past couple of decades. .... From where I'm sitting it looks like China is doing very well. You seem to be floating back and forth between this being bad for us, but you keep saying it is bad for them.
Wait a second.... free trade usually has a net increase in jobs for the countries that open up to it, at the expense of our jobs. So you're saying that an increase in jobs hurt Haiti? Also, you have it a bit wrong there, it wasn't that corn was flowing into their country and it hurt them, it's that we began using it for ethenol, speculation on corn went up, and they could no longer afford as much corn as they used to, thus, food riots. You're talking about two very different situations.
@bweazel So how does you saying that the free market fucked over Haiti by fucking Haiti over with corn prove that the free market did not fuck Haiti over by fucking them over and yet before they had the free market Haiti was actually more wealthy than it was before the free market policies were adopted? Oh I get it your a libertarian, so the fact Haiti has gone bust under the policy platform you advocate is OK because they are free now, wow Bully for you
@franks2732 Jesus christ, dude. Think about what you type before actually typing it, you have all the time in the world to write it, take your time, and have it make some sense, or at the very least be legible.
Us turning corn into ethanol, and not giving it to the Haitians to eat, has nothing to do with a free trade. It has to do with a lack of trade. Trying to "go green" killed Haiti, not an open market place and free trade.
@bweazel So a lack of corn to eat sent haiti broke not the free market policies that helped make corn unaffordable for Haiti, if only they traded more goods which they did not have to trade and simply imported more goods but those same good were unavailable because of a lack of them which must have been because the market was not free enough. Really I know I simply don't understand libertarian speak. They did not teach idiot where I come from. I know what I write. I wrote it with intent
@franks2732 It has a big part to do with it. Would you rather donate your corn for a market price? Or would you rather sell it to ethanol producers for a much higher price? And with the government actually subsidizing this, it has nothing at all to do with a free market. Don't you get that? Government leading the economy around on a leash, has nothing at all to do with a free market. And it would be your own government and your taxes that killed Haiti. Not free trade.
@franks2732 Did it ever occur to you that no one really wants to buy anything from Haiti? They are not very educated, it is a fucking island, which means everything you send there is going to have shipping costs through the roof, everything you use, energy, raw materials, labor will cost more than if you did it in say... China. So it's just not economically worth it to go to Haiti, when other places like Mexico, China, and India exist. All abundant in natural resources.
@bweazel So because the population is full of dumb asses it gives smart people the right to exploit them for profit. i love you free market advocates. Sometimes things are done without a profit intent. Government and society advocate for the betterment of their populations not a spreadsheet. Its just a fucking island, yes you really are bringing more over to your religion with that comment (sorry ideology, shit cult)
@franks2732 Since when was providing someone a job, exploiting them? You guys are such cry babies. If you're not motivated enough to make your own company, don't be such a bitch whenever someone makes a company that gives you a job.
So.... it being an island does not change your opinion on why it is not some booming economy? If you can know that, and still believe free trade killed Haiti, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and need to go read some econ books.
@bweazel Not crying at all, you expound the policy of total trade liberalization not only as a metaphysical expression of your ideology but as the for bringer of good fortune to all. Perhaps that "libertarian understanding of freedom" is not all it is cracked up to be mmm. perhaps just perhaps if Haiti did not change things may not have turned out so bad. That free market changey thingy (as that imbecile Palin would say) did not work out OK. But it was the corn nothing else, just the corn LMFAO
@franks2732 Dude, seriously. Stop trying to psycho analyze me and the libertarian ideal. If you have a point about the topic we're talking about, say it, otherwise, bite your pride and stop replying. I have no interest in cock sword fighting with you over whose ideology is "cooler".
@bweazel no argument i am simply pointing to the fact that your ideology is plainly stupid and does not stack up to scrutiny, I have not sated my ideology and as a matter of fact are a little more left than Louie. But hey i look at Norway and go WOW I would love to live there. But Haiti even before nature took a hand was fucked and it was not fucked before it opened its trade boarders. You can make excuses but that is a fact
@franks2732 And yours is any better? Yours is force. Mine is voluntary cooperation. Honestly. Which is better? You, the person who says he loves and respects all people, thinks he knows better than they do how they should live their life, and thinks that he knows how much money they need, how much money they don't need. Ridiculous. Leave people alone. You want something, work for it.
Well you go right ahead and go live in Norway. No one is stopping you. The Norwegians might, but we won't. ;)
@bweazel mine is way better and works and I could not give two flying fucks if little old you object, you live under the laws of the land, if you don't like them buddy move or fight to change them, but as you said that is not going to happen, perhaps packing your bags and moving to Somalia may help. Lots of freedom there just don't go to the evil socialist Somaliland where welfare and free education abounds.
@franks2732 *yawn* This has gotten way off track. Back to free trade, or I'm done with you. I can't stand the way you guys use the word "free". You don't even realize you're asking for slavery.
@bweazel code for shit this guy knows what he is talking about and really does not care about the libertarian bullshit I keep leaking out of my ass, he will ask me for facts, i will get him i will mention I am a libertarian and it is up to him to prove that my ideology is wrong according to my ideologies rules if he does not do that he is wrong and I win. That will fix him. LMFAO
@franks2732 ..... Dude.... yet another message of yours that flows so horribly I can not even understand it. Code for shit? Are you speaking for me? Are you saying you're a libertarian? Are you talking to yourself? I don't get it. I like that you cap it off with a laugh to yourself too. How nice ;) But really though, was this supposed to be me talking to myself? You talking to yourself?
@bweazel no I am talking you are going through the libertarian list of talking points for your soapbox, I am simply making you look like a dick, which I am sure Louie will thank me for
@franks2732 Redistribution of wealth via taxation IS theft. If you support this method, you are the thief, sir, like I said in the first place. Not me. I want us all to mind our own business and voluntarily trade with each other when it serves OUR interests.
@bweazel Nope that is a libertarian talking point and your ideologies opinion which even the Libertarian Party of the USA disagrees with as they certainly believe in forced taxation abet at a lower rate than I advocate. See simply because you say something does not make it so. Others hold views which disagree with you
@franks2732 What is a libertarian talking point? And if it is, why is it wrong? I could care less what the "platform" agrees with. Obviously you do not understand libertarianism ;) You misunderstand, I'm not saying taxation is theft, I clearly just said, redistribution of wealth, under the guise of taxation IS theft. Do you even read? Or once you see "taxation" do you shut down and assume you know the rest of what I'm saying? Lots of people hold opposing views of me, you too, what's your point?
@bweazel So as Haiti had a free market I thought it should have been better but I keep forgetting you don't care weather Haiti in fact got better only that they were "free to fail" or "free to soar" I wonder what happened. So the point is do you really care weather Haiti did well or were you more concerned that your ideological policies were introduced because regardless of outcomes according to your ideology they were free LMFAO. tell that to the kid without the corn
@franks2732 Nope, can't say I really care about Haiti. And really, I doubt you do either. You do probably, but only on the surface when you can use it to make yourself look like a caring guy, but you really don't care about their troubles.
I really don't understand you guys, you guys are arguing this completely back asswards. Free trade is GOOD for the poorer countries, they get jobs, it increases the turnover of money in their economy which increases their GDP.
@bweazel What is really funny is that I actually do care for Haiti and i do care for the people and think that people are certainly worth more than profit. "Free trade is GOOD for the poorer countries, they get jobs, it increases the turnover of money in their economy which increases their GDP" Well why with all that free trade it did not work mm very strange, it's your ideology and it seems it did not work, wonder, wonder ponder
@franks2732 No, you really don't. Or you would be there helping them. They're making money, bro. When they did not have a job before. Stop feeling so sorry for them. Perhaps they should be feeling sorry for you since they took your job ;)
Are you retarded or something? Stop focusing solely on Haiti. I've given plenty of reasons why free trade had nothing to do with Haiti's problems. If anything, free trade would help them, but not many people want to set up shop in Haiti.
@bweazel But your ideology says they will be more free, I wonder can people eat "free" does it come packaged! LMFAO and what about all those countries that did not adopt the Haiti experiment bet they miss their libertarian freedom. But the thing is Haiti has free trade but does not seem to be better from the moment they introduced the free market policy that the US wanted they seem to have reverted. mmm by golly. That right its the corn that did it not the policy. hey the vids on Haiti dingbat
@franks2732 What is this Haiti experiment you are referring to? Free trade is not some final fix all to everyones problems, bro. You can't just say, yup, we're a free market now, and everything will magically poof into a utopia and everyone will have beautiful women feeding them grapes and fanning them with palm leaves.
You really show how dependent you are on centralization if you think of a free market in this manner. It's all or nothing, is what I get from you.
@bweazel No it is not a fix nor is it a final fix nor is it always good and that is the point idiot. you advocate a policy platform claiming that not only is it the closest thing to freedom but also that it will create wonders abounding. I think I will stick with my ideals, the price of your kind of freedom is a little high to pay. But as you said who gives a shit about a little island. Buddy I do because they are people and they mean more than your ideals every time
@franks2732 My policy platform is the mob (that would be you and people who think like you) should have no power to use the government as a club to get what they want done in an economy. You seem to think, since you have a good idea, you and your ilk should be able to tax people who are more successful than you, just because you "need" something.
The price of my kind of freedom? Haha, sorry bro, it's not "my" freedom. It's just freedom. The price of freedom, period, is high to pay.
@franks2732 You sound like a unionist. You don't care about the people, you care about the size of the group because you realize the bigger the group, the easier you will be able to get what you want. That's about as far as your "caring" goes. Are you like me? Goood, goood, bigger group. Be like me! Socialists are full o' crap.
@bweazel I actually owned my own business and have worked in management. I have worked as a salesman and really do know how business works. I do not have Louies economic qualifications but I know enough to know your ideas are nothing but "no empathy" and greed without control. heaps of us on the"left" have worked in business. And I have always supported unions because they fight for their membership for better wagers and conditions. A floor sweeper has less bargaining power than management
@franks2732 Don't put quotes around "left" like you are not far left leaning. You are clearly a statist, who probably wasn't a good businessman, who lost his business, and instead of blaming yourself, and your lack of skill at business, you blame everyone else, and try to look to the government to make your life, and your business life easier.
Private unions are fine, as long as they don't take government money. I'm completely against public unions.
@bweazel Actually I was quite good but it makes no difference anyway weather i was or not only that i disagree with you, you simply wish to lampoon me for your ideology. You are an idiot. All unions are private collectives owned by the membership weather the workers works for the government or not. Every person or collective group of people has the right to bargain in good faith with their employer be it the government or not. or are you claiming people have no right to wage negotiation LMFAO
@bweazel no sometimes things happen which change how you live life, it is not always possible to continue to live like you were and life moves forward. because I changed direction does not indicate failure only that my life changed. You are fishing for marline but will only ever catch flounder
@franks2732 So then I hit the nail on the head earlier? You lost your business and now you're pissed at everyone but yourself. Gotcha. Marline, flounder. Who cares. Still explains a bit of why you are the way you are.
@franks2732 It's not that it's not "right", it's just.... pointless. Why would you close it? Especially if you were supporting yourself with it. Was it not successful? Was it too much work for the amount of money you were getting back? What?
@bweazel no no not its not its um pointless um why why would you do that, you choose to do something for your own reason and you umm ah umm , go fuck yourself you imbecile!
@franks2732 Excuse me? Unions are not private collectives. They are corporations. There are too many laws on our books that discriminate in favor of unionized labor, against non-unionized labor. It is discrimination, and it doesn't belong on our books. Sure, you have the right to negotiate, but if things don't go your way, and you strike, I believe your boss has the right to fire you. You see? I'm not a hypocrite. I support the rights of both sides.
@bweazel No unions are Cooperatives of working people formed to fight for better wages and conditions of their membership. That is the definition, but your a libertarian you create your own definitions to meet with your ideology, my mistake
@franks2732 *yawn* They're corporations, with boards of directors, and all the requirements of corporations, only difference is, when you're the biggest donor to leftist politicians, they tend to cut you tax breaks in bills as soon as they get in office, sort of like that we can strike but you can't fire us, we can take in income (dues) and not pay taxes on it. Hooray for unions! Leftists are the worst type of hypocrites.
@bweazel just sitting on the sidelines watching this back and forth. what I notice is libertarians get too involved with word games instead of reality. Did free trade ruin Haiti? yes or no? I'm not saying Haitians were ever doing so well, but did free trade demolish their economy? before free trade Haitians bartered with vegetables, fruits, other foods etc.can Haiti compete with highly subsidized US corporate farmers?
@LouieArrighi LMFAO, did you see him go you cant just simply shut your business, like I was not allowed to ROLF, I admit it all I have been doing is fucking with him, sorry Louie and I am having a ball, he seems a little pissed but
@franks2732 Nahhh, I'm fine, bro. Not pissed at all. I'd rather be talking about economics and free trade, but it seems you have no intent of doing that. You'd obviously rather sit there and stroke your cock for Louie. Wag that tail, puppy! ;)
@LouieArrighi No, free trade did not ruin Haiti. We started off that way, then it went ad hominem. No, they cannot compete. But who says they need to? Again, individually choices. If a farmer wants to sell his land to an American corporation, sure, why not? But then again, leads us back to political instability. Businesses won't move there, they'll just get their land stolen from them. Trust and willingness to risk wealth has more to do with it than free trade.
@franks2732 Lots more goes into it, population, accessibility to resources and labor, education, climate, transportation, technology, defense, politics, etc. I think you ignore all of those things. Haiti, is pretty low on the list on every last one of those items. They have an unstable government, makes businesses a bit finicky of doing business, never know when a coup will happen and your business will be nationalized. They have zero defense. Low education. Etc.
@franks2732 I see that you all recognize free trade usually doesn't work out too well for our lower and lower middle classes, but your argument seems to be that it is bad also for whoever received your former jobs... sorry to burst your bubble, it isn't. Stop trying to argue that. Free trade did not kill Haiti. Haiti being a crazy ass, unstable, island nation is what killed Haiti.
@franks2732 I advocate "green ideas"? No, not really. I hate the idea of the green movement. Because it does just that. Destroys their environments so we can "clean up carbon". Destroys their food so we can "be less dependent on foreigners" This green revolution has nothing at all to do with a free market. It is subsidized by tax payers and the outcomes are usually not beneficial for the taxpayer. Just more welfare state bullshit.
Oxymoron? Where? Try understanding what I'm saying next time.
@bweazel that's an opinion and not a fact and not a really good opinion. And the use of Corn as ethanol was established before the move to green energy, which Brazil has embraced. Secondly are you advocating against the 'free market trade of corn' for use as fuel now? Not very libertarian of you, perhaps we should restrict the amount of corn sold to ethanol companies (a policy i in fact support) so small countries still can buy cheap food. Perhaps if Haiti simply did not bother to change? mm
@franks2732 Sorry bro, it is fact that the price of corn has shot up over the last 5 years. It is a fact that our government did and still is subsidizing corn production and ethanol purchases. It is a fact that Haiti's corn imports dropped over the past 5 years. Ya, but it wasn't subsidized by tax payers before the green push.
I'm arguing against the government subsidizing ethanol production... haven't I said that about three times now? Stop trying to speak for me, bro. You're not good at it
@bweazel No I agree I do not believe in subsidizing ethanol production and think that governments should restrict the trade in corn for ethanol production, forcing corn produces to sell their corn for food at a lower price. It seems a sane thing to do. In fact I would tax ethanol suppliers and produces to redress the balance using the money made from the tax to subsidize corn produces who sell their corn for human consumption. I wonder would you favor such a policy?
@franks2732 Sadly, no. I cannot favor it. I do not support government intervention into the markets in any way, and two wrongs do not make a right, the people are fully capable of fixing the problem themselves, if government would stop trying to centralize everything and behave as though they know what's best for everyone. I do not support forcing people to behave a certain way to benefit others. I support laws, I do not support regulation. I do not support subsidies or centralization.
@bweazel really whens this fixing bit going to happen, can you get your crystal ball and predict it for me. Let me guess when everyone wakes up libertarian tomorrow LMFAO. I support trade regulation and centralization because it works. You don't because you morally object
@franks2732 No, it won't happen. Too many cowards like you around now, that expect government to cradle them from birth to grave. Of course you support regulation. Centralization works? For who exactly? Hahaha, you like the type of economy they've set up over the last 40 years? Yes, I morally object. There is no way that you can convince me that 100 people know better than 300,000,000. We don't need to be dictated to. If you think we do, you are probably a beneficiary of government handouts.
@bweazel i am not a coward and served in my countries own army, I earned my own money and was happy to pay my fair share in taxes, I was employed in management and sales roles. I am not and have never been a lazy person. That does not mean that I do not support unions or helping other people out through a strong government run welfare system because it works and unions protect people who don't have the power to protect themselves. But they have the brains to us the power of collective will
@franks2732 Collective *shiver* No, thank you. You keep your collective. I'll keep doing my best to stay out of your socialist gang bang. Sadly though, I think you all will take us over before long. Pretty hard for individuals to fight a rabid, greedy mob for too long. And speaking of greed, why is the collective greed more moral to you than the corporate greed that you all generalize on every single corporation, but always misdirect that attention away from yourselves.
@bweazel No socialist gang bang, what don't like a bit of collective competition, I don't believe in wealth distribution and if you want to call it something else go right ahead, but i would rather force someone to pay extra tax than let a poor person starve or live on the street. I have a non individual greed moral I guess I will have to live with the fact I demand that of others who may object sob
@franks2732 Well look around. It's all over the place. If you don't believe in it, why do you support it? Yes, it is very clear that you would rather force someone else to do something that you are unwilling to do yourself. Just because you assume he didn't earn it fairly. Look out for yourself. So what's stopping you? From creating jobs for all these people? Are you saying you don't have the ability to help these people? No? You'd just rather steal other peoples money?
@bweazel I have never stolen anyones money and by your definition do you drive a car on a public road and i assume you pay taxes and other peoples taxes helped build the road you drive on. Your a thief
@franks2732 Your ideals support the theft of other peoples property and labor. Your ideals support reduced competition and high unemployment because you support unions and artificially high, above market wages and laws that ensure unions do not have to compete with lower wage workers. It's different when it's a product or service we ALL use. Building a public road is not a redistribution of wealth. A road will be just as useful to a wealthy person as it will be to a poor person.
@bweazel Nope I support the forced procurement of property according to law and taxation to help provide services for society. A fact enshrined in the USA constitution and in the 16th amendment ratified by over 95% of states, don't like the laws of your land move
@franks2732 No, I do not like the income tax at all. But I'm not going to move, you moron. Stop telling me to move out of a country you don't even live in. Is that how you all are taught in Australia? "If you don't like what we're doing here, give up and run away?" How nice...
@crackmonster99 Before it happened? The US was a protectionist country from the first president and first congress, through the 19th century, and into the first decades of the 20th century. No country has ever developed its economy without protectionism.
A distinction must be made between free trade agreements & free market economics which correlates to the distinction between capitalism & free market. Free trade agreements create poverty, the loss of money simply being the loss of control on the local level (such as farmers in Mexico no longer being able to make a profit through hard work because transnational corporations control economic policy).
This is most retarded video on the internet. We should ban bulldozers so people can use shovels. That'll "help" the workers.
We should ban competition to "help" domestic producers, albeit that comes at the expense of consumers and tax payers.
It takes one hell of a moron to argue against FREE trade.
tjohn1986 5 months ago in playlist More videos from LouieArrighi
it's 1.30 am here Louie got to go been fun got to go to bed
franks2732 7 months ago
This guy knows nothing about economics. This is sad.
firebadger101 7 months ago
@firebadger101 ...and which University did you attend??? youtube??? dumbarse
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
@firebadger101 I know it must be hard when all the world, all those Uni grads don't have a clue but a idiot with a keyboard and a blog page works it out. I just wish I was as smart as you.
franks2732 7 months ago
So by your analogy, China is actually worse off now that they've been opening up to free trade for the past couple of decades. .... From where I'm sitting it looks like China is doing very well. You seem to be floating back and forth between this being bad for us, but you keep saying it is bad for them.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel so, are you willing to work in CHina for slave wages?
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
@LouieArrighi So, you feel sorry for them and you're mad they're taking our jobs? How does that work out?
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel I don't feel sorry for them at all. I wouldn't do it though. I think you would definitely work for slave wages.
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
Wait a second.... free trade usually has a net increase in jobs for the countries that open up to it, at the expense of our jobs. So you're saying that an increase in jobs hurt Haiti? Also, you have it a bit wrong there, it wasn't that corn was flowing into their country and it hurt them, it's that we began using it for ethenol, speculation on corn went up, and they could no longer afford as much corn as they used to, thus, food riots. You're talking about two very different situations.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel So how does you saying that the free market fucked over Haiti by fucking Haiti over with corn prove that the free market did not fuck Haiti over by fucking them over and yet before they had the free market Haiti was actually more wealthy than it was before the free market policies were adopted? Oh I get it your a libertarian, so the fact Haiti has gone bust under the policy platform you advocate is OK because they are free now, wow Bully for you
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Jesus christ, dude. Think about what you type before actually typing it, you have all the time in the world to write it, take your time, and have it make some sense, or at the very least be legible.
Us turning corn into ethanol, and not giving it to the Haitians to eat, has nothing to do with a free trade. It has to do with a lack of trade. Trying to "go green" killed Haiti, not an open market place and free trade.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel So a lack of corn to eat sent haiti broke not the free market policies that helped make corn unaffordable for Haiti, if only they traded more goods which they did not have to trade and simply imported more goods but those same good were unavailable because of a lack of them which must have been because the market was not free enough. Really I know I simply don't understand libertarian speak. They did not teach idiot where I come from. I know what I write. I wrote it with intent
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 It has a big part to do with it. Would you rather donate your corn for a market price? Or would you rather sell it to ethanol producers for a much higher price? And with the government actually subsidizing this, it has nothing at all to do with a free market. Don't you get that? Government leading the economy around on a leash, has nothing at all to do with a free market. And it would be your own government and your taxes that killed Haiti. Not free trade.
bweazel 7 months ago
@franks2732 Did it ever occur to you that no one really wants to buy anything from Haiti? They are not very educated, it is a fucking island, which means everything you send there is going to have shipping costs through the roof, everything you use, energy, raw materials, labor will cost more than if you did it in say... China. So it's just not economically worth it to go to Haiti, when other places like Mexico, China, and India exist. All abundant in natural resources.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel So because the population is full of dumb asses it gives smart people the right to exploit them for profit. i love you free market advocates. Sometimes things are done without a profit intent. Government and society advocate for the betterment of their populations not a spreadsheet. Its just a fucking island, yes you really are bringing more over to your religion with that comment (sorry ideology, shit cult)
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Since when was providing someone a job, exploiting them? You guys are such cry babies. If you're not motivated enough to make your own company, don't be such a bitch whenever someone makes a company that gives you a job.
So.... it being an island does not change your opinion on why it is not some booming economy? If you can know that, and still believe free trade killed Haiti, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and need to go read some econ books.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel Not crying at all, you expound the policy of total trade liberalization not only as a metaphysical expression of your ideology but as the for bringer of good fortune to all. Perhaps that "libertarian understanding of freedom" is not all it is cracked up to be mmm. perhaps just perhaps if Haiti did not change things may not have turned out so bad. That free market changey thingy (as that imbecile Palin would say) did not work out OK. But it was the corn nothing else, just the corn LMFAO
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Dude, seriously. Stop trying to psycho analyze me and the libertarian ideal. If you have a point about the topic we're talking about, say it, otherwise, bite your pride and stop replying. I have no interest in cock sword fighting with you over whose ideology is "cooler".
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel no argument i am simply pointing to the fact that your ideology is plainly stupid and does not stack up to scrutiny, I have not sated my ideology and as a matter of fact are a little more left than Louie. But hey i look at Norway and go WOW I would love to live there. But Haiti even before nature took a hand was fucked and it was not fucked before it opened its trade boarders. You can make excuses but that is a fact
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 And yours is any better? Yours is force. Mine is voluntary cooperation. Honestly. Which is better? You, the person who says he loves and respects all people, thinks he knows better than they do how they should live their life, and thinks that he knows how much money they need, how much money they don't need. Ridiculous. Leave people alone. You want something, work for it.
Well you go right ahead and go live in Norway. No one is stopping you. The Norwegians might, but we won't. ;)
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel mine is way better and works and I could not give two flying fucks if little old you object, you live under the laws of the land, if you don't like them buddy move or fight to change them, but as you said that is not going to happen, perhaps packing your bags and moving to Somalia may help. Lots of freedom there just don't go to the evil socialist Somaliland where welfare and free education abounds.
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 *yawn* This has gotten way off track. Back to free trade, or I'm done with you. I can't stand the way you guys use the word "free". You don't even realize you're asking for slavery.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel code for shit this guy knows what he is talking about and really does not care about the libertarian bullshit I keep leaking out of my ass, he will ask me for facts, i will get him i will mention I am a libertarian and it is up to him to prove that my ideology is wrong according to my ideologies rules if he does not do that he is wrong and I win. That will fix him. LMFAO
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 ..... Dude.... yet another message of yours that flows so horribly I can not even understand it. Code for shit? Are you speaking for me? Are you saying you're a libertarian? Are you talking to yourself? I don't get it. I like that you cap it off with a laugh to yourself too. How nice ;) But really though, was this supposed to be me talking to myself? You talking to yourself?
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel no I am talking you are going through the libertarian list of talking points for your soapbox, I am simply making you look like a dick, which I am sure Louie will thank me for
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Redistribution of wealth via taxation IS theft. If you support this method, you are the thief, sir, like I said in the first place. Not me. I want us all to mind our own business and voluntarily trade with each other when it serves OUR interests.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel Nope that is a libertarian talking point and your ideologies opinion which even the Libertarian Party of the USA disagrees with as they certainly believe in forced taxation abet at a lower rate than I advocate. See simply because you say something does not make it so. Others hold views which disagree with you
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 What is a libertarian talking point? And if it is, why is it wrong? I could care less what the "platform" agrees with. Obviously you do not understand libertarianism ;) You misunderstand, I'm not saying taxation is theft, I clearly just said, redistribution of wealth, under the guise of taxation IS theft. Do you even read? Or once you see "taxation" do you shut down and assume you know the rest of what I'm saying? Lots of people hold opposing views of me, you too, what's your point?
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel So you disagree with Adam Smith then
franks2732 7 months ago
@bweazel So as Haiti had a free market I thought it should have been better but I keep forgetting you don't care weather Haiti in fact got better only that they were "free to fail" or "free to soar" I wonder what happened. So the point is do you really care weather Haiti did well or were you more concerned that your ideological policies were introduced because regardless of outcomes according to your ideology they were free LMFAO. tell that to the kid without the corn
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Nope, can't say I really care about Haiti. And really, I doubt you do either. You do probably, but only on the surface when you can use it to make yourself look like a caring guy, but you really don't care about their troubles.
I really don't understand you guys, you guys are arguing this completely back asswards. Free trade is GOOD for the poorer countries, they get jobs, it increases the turnover of money in their economy which increases their GDP.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel What is really funny is that I actually do care for Haiti and i do care for the people and think that people are certainly worth more than profit. "Free trade is GOOD for the poorer countries, they get jobs, it increases the turnover of money in their economy which increases their GDP" Well why with all that free trade it did not work mm very strange, it's your ideology and it seems it did not work, wonder, wonder ponder
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 No, you really don't. Or you would be there helping them. They're making money, bro. When they did not have a job before. Stop feeling so sorry for them. Perhaps they should be feeling sorry for you since they took your job ;)
Are you retarded or something? Stop focusing solely on Haiti. I've given plenty of reasons why free trade had nothing to do with Haiti's problems. If anything, free trade would help them, but not many people want to set up shop in Haiti.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel But your ideology says they will be more free, I wonder can people eat "free" does it come packaged! LMFAO and what about all those countries that did not adopt the Haiti experiment bet they miss their libertarian freedom. But the thing is Haiti has free trade but does not seem to be better from the moment they introduced the free market policy that the US wanted they seem to have reverted. mmm by golly. That right its the corn that did it not the policy. hey the vids on Haiti dingbat
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 What is this Haiti experiment you are referring to? Free trade is not some final fix all to everyones problems, bro. You can't just say, yup, we're a free market now, and everything will magically poof into a utopia and everyone will have beautiful women feeding them grapes and fanning them with palm leaves.
You really show how dependent you are on centralization if you think of a free market in this manner. It's all or nothing, is what I get from you.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel No it is not a fix nor is it a final fix nor is it always good and that is the point idiot. you advocate a policy platform claiming that not only is it the closest thing to freedom but also that it will create wonders abounding. I think I will stick with my ideals, the price of your kind of freedom is a little high to pay. But as you said who gives a shit about a little island. Buddy I do because they are people and they mean more than your ideals every time
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 My policy platform is the mob (that would be you and people who think like you) should have no power to use the government as a club to get what they want done in an economy. You seem to think, since you have a good idea, you and your ilk should be able to tax people who are more successful than you, just because you "need" something.
The price of my kind of freedom? Haha, sorry bro, it's not "my" freedom. It's just freedom. The price of freedom, period, is high to pay.
bweazel 7 months ago
@franks2732 You sound like a unionist. You don't care about the people, you care about the size of the group because you realize the bigger the group, the easier you will be able to get what you want. That's about as far as your "caring" goes. Are you like me? Goood, goood, bigger group. Be like me! Socialists are full o' crap.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel I actually owned my own business and have worked in management. I have worked as a salesman and really do know how business works. I do not have Louies economic qualifications but I know enough to know your ideas are nothing but "no empathy" and greed without control. heaps of us on the"left" have worked in business. And I have always supported unions because they fight for their membership for better wagers and conditions. A floor sweeper has less bargaining power than management
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Don't put quotes around "left" like you are not far left leaning. You are clearly a statist, who probably wasn't a good businessman, who lost his business, and instead of blaming yourself, and your lack of skill at business, you blame everyone else, and try to look to the government to make your life, and your business life easier.
Private unions are fine, as long as they don't take government money. I'm completely against public unions.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel Actually I was quite good but it makes no difference anyway weather i was or not only that i disagree with you, you simply wish to lampoon me for your ideology. You are an idiot. All unions are private collectives owned by the membership weather the workers works for the government or not. Every person or collective group of people has the right to bargain in good faith with their employer be it the government or not. or are you claiming people have no right to wage negotiation LMFAO
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 If you were any good, you would still have a business.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel no sometimes things happen which change how you live life, it is not always possible to continue to live like you were and life moves forward. because I changed direction does not indicate failure only that my life changed. You are fishing for marline but will only ever catch flounder
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 So then I hit the nail on the head earlier? You lost your business and now you're pissed at everyone but yourself. Gotcha. Marline, flounder. Who cares. Still explains a bit of why you are the way you are.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel No I did not lose my business nor did it fail. I closed it or is that not my right under your own ideologies rules? What a sad little boy
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 It's not that it's not "right", it's just.... pointless. Why would you close it? Especially if you were supporting yourself with it. Was it not successful? Was it too much work for the amount of money you were getting back? What?
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel no no not its not its um pointless um why why would you do that, you choose to do something for your own reason and you umm ah umm , go fuck yourself you imbecile!
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 This is now your fourth post that has made absolutely no sense. Try again.
bweazel 7 months ago
@franks2732 Excuse me? Unions are not private collectives. They are corporations. There are too many laws on our books that discriminate in favor of unionized labor, against non-unionized labor. It is discrimination, and it doesn't belong on our books. Sure, you have the right to negotiate, but if things don't go your way, and you strike, I believe your boss has the right to fire you. You see? I'm not a hypocrite. I support the rights of both sides.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel No unions are Cooperatives of working people formed to fight for better wages and conditions of their membership. That is the definition, but your a libertarian you create your own definitions to meet with your ideology, my mistake
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 *yawn* They're corporations, with boards of directors, and all the requirements of corporations, only difference is, when you're the biggest donor to leftist politicians, they tend to cut you tax breaks in bills as soon as they get in office, sort of like that we can strike but you can't fire us, we can take in income (dues) and not pay taxes on it. Hooray for unions! Leftists are the worst type of hypocrites.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel Nope and that is a lie
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 What is a lie?
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel just sitting on the sidelines watching this back and forth. what I notice is libertarians get too involved with word games instead of reality. Did free trade ruin Haiti? yes or no? I'm not saying Haitians were ever doing so well, but did free trade demolish their economy? before free trade Haitians bartered with vegetables, fruits, other foods etc.can Haiti compete with highly subsidized US corporate farmers?
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
@LouieArrighi LMFAO, did you see him go you cant just simply shut your business, like I was not allowed to ROLF, I admit it all I have been doing is fucking with him, sorry Louie and I am having a ball, he seems a little pissed but
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Nahhh, I'm fine, bro. Not pissed at all. I'd rather be talking about economics and free trade, but it seems you have no intent of doing that. You'd obviously rather sit there and stroke your cock for Louie. Wag that tail, puppy! ;)
bweazel 7 months ago
@LouieArrighi No, free trade did not ruin Haiti. We started off that way, then it went ad hominem. No, they cannot compete. But who says they need to? Again, individually choices. If a farmer wants to sell his land to an American corporation, sure, why not? But then again, leads us back to political instability. Businesses won't move there, they'll just get their land stolen from them. Trust and willingness to risk wealth has more to do with it than free trade.
bweazel 7 months ago
@franks2732 Lots more goes into it, population, accessibility to resources and labor, education, climate, transportation, technology, defense, politics, etc. I think you ignore all of those things. Haiti, is pretty low on the list on every last one of those items. They have an unstable government, makes businesses a bit finicky of doing business, never know when a coup will happen and your business will be nationalized. They have zero defense. Low education. Etc.
bweazel 7 months ago
@franks2732 I see that you all recognize free trade usually doesn't work out too well for our lower and lower middle classes, but your argument seems to be that it is bad also for whoever received your former jobs... sorry to burst your bubble, it isn't. Stop trying to argue that. Free trade did not kill Haiti. Haiti being a crazy ass, unstable, island nation is what killed Haiti.
bweazel 7 months ago
@franks2732 But please, since you are so well informed. Educate me on how free trade killed Haiti.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel i love you guys the self advocates of the oxymoron
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 I advocate "green ideas"? No, not really. I hate the idea of the green movement. Because it does just that. Destroys their environments so we can "clean up carbon". Destroys their food so we can "be less dependent on foreigners" This green revolution has nothing at all to do with a free market. It is subsidized by tax payers and the outcomes are usually not beneficial for the taxpayer. Just more welfare state bullshit.
Oxymoron? Where? Try understanding what I'm saying next time.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel that's an opinion and not a fact and not a really good opinion. And the use of Corn as ethanol was established before the move to green energy, which Brazil has embraced. Secondly are you advocating against the 'free market trade of corn' for use as fuel now? Not very libertarian of you, perhaps we should restrict the amount of corn sold to ethanol companies (a policy i in fact support) so small countries still can buy cheap food. Perhaps if Haiti simply did not bother to change? mm
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Sorry bro, it is fact that the price of corn has shot up over the last 5 years. It is a fact that our government did and still is subsidizing corn production and ethanol purchases. It is a fact that Haiti's corn imports dropped over the past 5 years. Ya, but it wasn't subsidized by tax payers before the green push.
I'm arguing against the government subsidizing ethanol production... haven't I said that about three times now? Stop trying to speak for me, bro. You're not good at it
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel No I agree I do not believe in subsidizing ethanol production and think that governments should restrict the trade in corn for ethanol production, forcing corn produces to sell their corn for food at a lower price. It seems a sane thing to do. In fact I would tax ethanol suppliers and produces to redress the balance using the money made from the tax to subsidize corn produces who sell their corn for human consumption. I wonder would you favor such a policy?
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Sadly, no. I cannot favor it. I do not support government intervention into the markets in any way, and two wrongs do not make a right, the people are fully capable of fixing the problem themselves, if government would stop trying to centralize everything and behave as though they know what's best for everyone. I do not support forcing people to behave a certain way to benefit others. I support laws, I do not support regulation. I do not support subsidies or centralization.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel really whens this fixing bit going to happen, can you get your crystal ball and predict it for me. Let me guess when everyone wakes up libertarian tomorrow LMFAO. I support trade regulation and centralization because it works. You don't because you morally object
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 No, it won't happen. Too many cowards like you around now, that expect government to cradle them from birth to grave. Of course you support regulation. Centralization works? For who exactly? Hahaha, you like the type of economy they've set up over the last 40 years? Yes, I morally object. There is no way that you can convince me that 100 people know better than 300,000,000. We don't need to be dictated to. If you think we do, you are probably a beneficiary of government handouts.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel i am not a coward and served in my countries own army, I earned my own money and was happy to pay my fair share in taxes, I was employed in management and sales roles. I am not and have never been a lazy person. That does not mean that I do not support unions or helping other people out through a strong government run welfare system because it works and unions protect people who don't have the power to protect themselves. But they have the brains to us the power of collective will
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Collective *shiver* No, thank you. You keep your collective. I'll keep doing my best to stay out of your socialist gang bang. Sadly though, I think you all will take us over before long. Pretty hard for individuals to fight a rabid, greedy mob for too long. And speaking of greed, why is the collective greed more moral to you than the corporate greed that you all generalize on every single corporation, but always misdirect that attention away from yourselves.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel No socialist gang bang, what don't like a bit of collective competition, I don't believe in wealth distribution and if you want to call it something else go right ahead, but i would rather force someone to pay extra tax than let a poor person starve or live on the street. I have a non individual greed moral I guess I will have to live with the fact I demand that of others who may object sob
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Well look around. It's all over the place. If you don't believe in it, why do you support it? Yes, it is very clear that you would rather force someone else to do something that you are unwilling to do yourself. Just because you assume he didn't earn it fairly. Look out for yourself. So what's stopping you? From creating jobs for all these people? Are you saying you don't have the ability to help these people? No? You'd just rather steal other peoples money?
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel I have never stolen anyones money and by your definition do you drive a car on a public road and i assume you pay taxes and other peoples taxes helped build the road you drive on. Your a thief
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 Your ideals support the theft of other peoples property and labor. Your ideals support reduced competition and high unemployment because you support unions and artificially high, above market wages and laws that ensure unions do not have to compete with lower wage workers. It's different when it's a product or service we ALL use. Building a public road is not a redistribution of wealth. A road will be just as useful to a wealthy person as it will be to a poor person.
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel Nope I support the forced procurement of property according to law and taxation to help provide services for society. A fact enshrined in the USA constitution and in the 16th amendment ratified by over 95% of states, don't like the laws of your land move
franks2732 7 months ago
@franks2732 No, I do not like the income tax at all. But I'm not going to move, you moron. Stop telling me to move out of a country you don't even live in. Is that how you all are taught in Australia? "If you don't like what we're doing here, give up and run away?" How nice...
bweazel 7 months ago
@bweazel well why not, you can either move or try to get people to see your point. Because you really believe don't you
franks2732 7 months ago
I made a vid just for you.
whippoorwillss 7 months ago
@whippoorwillss cool
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
This was a very good post Louie ...... and I agree 100% ...... Free trade is Fascism , make no mistake about that ppl....
tepstolog 7 months ago
@tepstolog thanks tepstolog!
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
i strongly recommend you do a vid or three on Chavez ; }
VampiressOnDaProwlq 7 months ago
@VampiressOnDaProwlq there is a great documentary on Chavez. Venezuelan people will fight for him till the end. I wonder why. Viva Chavez!
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
@VampiressOnDaProwlq the revolution will not be televised
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
@LouieArrighi
lol the next Socialist revolution must be televised, it's the Socialist thing to do, to share it with all people ; ] ~Viva le Revolution
VampiressOnDaProwlq 7 months ago
Hey Now
kidblood1 7 months ago
@kidblood1 thanks for stopping by from your busy vacation KB
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
free trade and the radical reli. view no birth control over thier
kevindblanch 7 months ago
Free trade has never worked and we were better off in the 60's and 70's before it happened.
crackmonster99 7 months ago 2
@crackmonster99 Before it happened? The US was a protectionist country from the first president and first congress, through the 19th century, and into the first decades of the 20th century. No country has ever developed its economy without protectionism.
MarmaladeINFP 7 months ago
@MarmaladeINFP Some of that's true but free trade didn't really take over here until the 80's and 90's.
crackmonster99 7 months ago
Comment removed
MarmaladeINFP 7 months ago
@crackmonster99 I originally misread your comment.
A distinction must be made between free trade agreements & free market economics which correlates to the distinction between capitalism & free market. Free trade agreements create poverty, the loss of money simply being the loss of control on the local level (such as farmers in Mexico no longer being able to make a profit through hard work because transnational corporations control economic policy).
watch?v=zSvoj76NRLM
watch?v=s3i-geRpH1w
MarmaladeINFP 7 months ago
@crackmonster99 absolutely right on crackmonster99!
LouieArrighi 7 months ago
@LouieArrighi Well said Louie!Take care mate!
zsylvana 7 months ago