Scholars ENRAGED by Watchtower Misrepresenting them as supporting 607 B.C.E.

[ochillon74]

Funny u mentioned that I used to write poetry Haha.

[ochillon74]

Now who do u trust ,the wt or experts historians? Stop making excuses g n open ur mind I was once like u I served as an elder my brother , I saw things ull never see in ur wt life. n started questioning everything until I saw the light its ok to be afraid, I know u r thinking this is the only true religion what else is there?u know what, God is there, Jesus, the bible our guide that's all we need. No need of an organization telling us what or where to go in order to have gods approval.nonsense.

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@ochillon74

that was like poetry! ; )

[ochillon74]

@superRev144 cont... Babylon first took Hebrews captive in 605bc that takes u in the vicinity of 537. now if u count from the destruction of temple(587bc) to where temple was completely rebuilt in 516bc that's what yeah 70 yrs predicted by Jeremiah . Do ur own research n stop being a puppet.

[ochillon74]

@SuperRev144 u need to do ur homework bro. In 605bc after Babylon defeated the Egyptians went down to Judah ( Jerusalem ) n took thousands of Hebrews (that was the 1st encounter) in 597bc Nebuchadnezzar attacked Jerusalem took more captives n placed a king (Zedekiah) n made him swear an allegiance, zedekiah rebelled n Babylon came down in 587bc attacked n destroyed the temple n burnt the city killed the king's sons n took the king's eyes out. Now start ur 70 yr count down from when Babylon--->>>

[stepfordescapee]

this was one of the things i used to question. being a history buff, i saw that outside sources did not agree on the date that "we" as witnesses used for the destruction of Jerusalem. i did not have the courage to question the elders about it though.

[jandysanchez]

Well, your the winner. Congrats!

What can you share now for the hope of mankind?

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@jandysanchez nothing but CHRIST my friend, nothing but CHRIST : )

[jandysanchez]

@TheSnarkyApologist . Its really hard because these days, there are so many proclaimed Christ. Im not religious, but these watchtower & awake has given me comfort in this wicked world. No wonder many are opposed, but why? whats the point of crosscheck. To hate the hebrew name of God? There is no love then and no Jesus if thats the case.

[nedboer]

A man by the name of carl olof jonsson , did some exstensive reseach on the 607 - i914 subject, , he publisht his findings in a book called " the gentile times reconsidered" he gves about 17 pieces of evidens that the destruction of jerusalem took place in about 586 . bce , this book is availleble at most bookstores online , personaly I found this book to be very interesting , and i have no reason to disagree with his findings . the truth shal make you free, ONLY the thruth

[LAGAMER50]

The Watchtower Society uses the 607 date on both the Gentile Times and the destruction of Jerusalem. They have to hold on to this date because if this date falls both timelines fall and the Watchtower Society loses its power. That is why they have to get the Jehovah's Wainesses to believe in it. The first to arrive at a period of 2,520 years was apparently Jonh Aquila Brown in 1823.

[customanalogue]

Zechariah:

"So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: “O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?”"

Again this was AFTER the return where Zechariah were among those returned.

THESE PEOPLE, Ezra, Daniel and Zechariah WERE ***THERE*** !!!

So what if historians don't agree with the Bible?

That is THEIR problem, shouldn't be ours.

[customanalogue]

Exra wrote AFTER the return of the Jews:

"Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years."

Note it says FULL-fill 70 Years, not HALF-fill or whatever - the WHOLE SEVENTY YEARS WAS TO BE *FULLFILLED*.

[customanalogue]

Jeremiah:

"And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal‧de′ans, and I will make it desolate wastes."

That is what Daniel must have read.

But SEVENTY YEARS FROM *WHEN* ???

Not 586-7BC, that's for sure, that is FIFTY years. Then Daniel would not have prayed about it "In the first year of Darius." Right?

[customanalogue]

"In the first year of Da‧ri′us the son of A‧has‧u‧e′rus of the seed of the Medes, who had been made king over the kingdom of the Chal‧de′ans; in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, DISCERNED BY THE BOOKS THE NUMBER OF YEARS concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the DEVASTATIONS of Jerusalem, [namely,] SEVENTY years."

I mean, READ IT and it's pretty clear Daniel KNEW that the 70 years were nearly up and then prayed about it.

[customanalogue]

So there was no SEVENTY years of desolation after all?

I mean, either the Bible got it wrong or the historians.

Believe the historians or believe the Bible?

Simple question.

It's also a reasonable question of one's faith.

[miker00I]

EXCELLENT WORK OF INFORMATION!

Excelente trabajo de Informacion.

Nuetros hermanos de habla española cautivos dentro de la WT deben despertar a la realidad del fraude de la WT

[SuperRev144]

Where did the WT ever present the argument that I just gave. I did my own research and came with the same conclusion.

Luke 21:24 says: and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

Mr. know it all explain this Times of the Nations for me then if you know better than the men in NY do. I actually would love to see this :).

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@SuperRev144 The Bottom line is that the WT is using scholars that they disagree with. Who has more scholarly knowledge....the expert archeologists or the WT Leadership? We know the track record of the WT Leadership

[SuperRev144]

@TheSnarkyApologist Stop the video at 9:07 and you can see a note that says: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.

That was the 1st time I read this article because I have done my own research on this. The magazine 2 part series does give the argument I gave. I said that before reading it. Point is though they acknowledge that the experts don't hold to 607 B.C.E. as the conventional date.

[CaptainRealism]

@TheSnarkyApologist The real bottom line is your whole complaint is invalid as the Watchtower makes it clear how the scholars they quote really feel. What do I mean? Look at 9:07 mark on your video and read the footnote. Can you see it Snarky? Can you? Pg 23 of the November 2011 Watchtower. See it yet?

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@CaptainRealism I just love it when you guys create a new channel JUST FOR ME! Here's the bottom line Cappie....the Watchtower is a false prophet, we all know that. They are certainly wrong on their 607 date. And Jesus NEVER appointed them over his earthly interests in 1919 because they believed he was already present from 1874 till 1943. Do you REALLY keep looking for someone to return when they are already present? Think about it my friend...

[CaptainRealism]

@TheSnarkyApologist I'm pretty sure that real, real bottom line is that you are a phony. You REALLY should read the information yourself before you run to YouTube to make a video about something that isn't true. How can they misrepresent scholars when they plainly note they don't agree with the 607 date? I also love your 2+2=3 comment and how it doesn't add up and yet you believe in other bad math equations. Remember 1+1+1=1. C'mon snarks...

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@CaptainRealism Fact: The article states that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE.

Fact: The article claims their findings are based of THOROUGH RESEARCH.

Fact: 99% of ALL Scholarship agrees on 586-587 BC.

Fact: The Watchtower wouldn't know THOROUGH RESEARCH if it crawled up their pants leg and took a big bite my friend.

Why are they quoting the worldly satan following evil ones?

Why do they put the names of these scholars with statements of "being destroyed in 607BCE"?

AWAKE will ya!

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@SuperRev144 you stated "I did my own research and came with the same conclusion."

If the "faithful and discreet slave" told you tomorrow that the return of Christ date is now to be considered not as 1914, but rather 1920, would you believe it, or would you tell your elder you will reject it?

[customanalogue]

@TheSnarkyApologist

"If the "faithful and discreet slave" told you tomorrow that the return of Christ date is now to be considered... 1920, would you believe it"

I will answer that, and it would be NO !!!

BTW, all this about prophet stuff blah blah, we should not forget Deut is about somebody who CLAIMS to be a prophet.

When Billy Graham saw the Israeli state rise in 1948 and said in 1950 that the end would be within two years, he was wrong...

But he NEVER CLAIMED TO BE A PROPHET.

THINK!!!

[SuperRev144]

Scholars do agree with the date that the Jews went back to their homeland in the vicinity of 537 B.C. Count back 70 years from what the God of the Bible that does not lie says we come to 607 B.C. God prophesied the Jews would return to their homeland 70 yrs later not 50. I trust Jehovah more than so called scholars.

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@SuperRev144 actually you are not trusting God but rather men in New York. I'll prove it.

If the "faithful and discreet slave" told you tomorrow that the return of Christ date is now to be considered not as 1914, but rather 1920, would you believe it, or would you tell your elder you will reject it?

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@SuperRev144 HOWEVER....the point is that scholars are really getting upset (I've talked with several) because the Watchtower is trying to make it appear that they support the Watchtower, which is soooooooooo far from the truth!

Have you checked out the Watchtower Society before signing on with them. Paul says "Check ALL things and hold fast to that which is true". Did YOU?

[Ni1234ckA]

@SuperRev144

IF YOU TRUST "JEHOVA" THAN STOP CITING PROFESSORS OF ARCHEOLOGY, HEBREW AND GREEK AND THEIR BOOKS,DICTIONARIES AND LEXICON -ACCUSING THEM OF SPREADING FALSE TEACHINGS BUT ON THE OTHER HAND MAKING USE OF THEIR WORKS BECAUSE YHWH HAVE NOT BLESSED YOU WITH PROFESSORS OF ARCHEOLOGY,GREEK AND HEBREW OF YOUR OWN - AND THE REASON IS OBVIOUS WHY NO PROFESSOR OF ARCHEOLOGY OR GREEK OR HEBREW HAS BECOME A JW SO FAR.

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@FEINBACHRISING

I haven't heard that yet.

Did she give a specific date for the end of the world as the Watchtower has repeatedly done?

Did she say that God put HIS words in HER mouth, as the Watchtower has?

Did she claim all will see that what she says as directed from Heaven, as the Watchtower says?

If so.....then she WOULD be a false prophet just like the Watchtower Robin!

You're beginning to catch on!

[NeedUpgrade]

When I research the old literature concerning the calculation of 1914, what botters me more is that Rutherford said in 1920 that the teaching of the pyramid was the work of Satan. (W. 15 Dec 1920 p. 377) In 1922 the a watchtower article explained that the "Herdals writers" had throw the testimony of the pyramis away since it was of no use. (W. 15 Aug 1922 p. 254) And again in 1928 it was explained that all the pyramids was built under the direction of satan. (W. 15 Nov 1928 p. 340-345)

[NeedUpgrade]

Even though Rutherford thought the witnesses this things, they were still to sell the 7 voleums of studies in the scriptures, since 1920 to 1929. In 1928 there was an article concerning those who had a bad conciense delivering these books, and in the artcile it was explained that the preachers of that time was not to tell people the context of the books, just to deliver them. If one did not deliver the books he was not beeing faithfull to the Lord. Besides the bible did also have errors.

[NeedUpgrade]

So if we add all this, it would sound something like this: Alot of the context in the studies in the scriptures series are based on the pyramids which is the work of Satan. Satan wants to mislead us away from the truth, and therfore the writers of the watchtower has thrown aside the teachings of the pyramid. But if you don`t deliever these books which contain demonic messages, your not beeing faithfull to the Lord. The bible is no better, and all the witnesses use the bible to preach...

[NeedUpgrade]

... Then 1 year after the last article deffending the studies in the scriptures, they stop selling it.... It dosnt make any sence. So if we think about it, what could really be the good reason for Rutherford wanting to sell the 7 volumes of studies in the scriptures for 9 years after he told the witnesses they contained satans influence.? MONEY. Its just a business. This articles should make anyone stop to believe in the governing body, like in my case. Good movie by the way.

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@NeedUpgrade Many thanks and blessings! You have presented some very insightful information my friend!

[NeedUpgrade]

@TheSnarkyApologist I was thinking to make a video about it when I get time:)

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@NeedUpgrade absolutely....I say GO FOR IT!!!

[barbsinclair]

@barbsinclair

drives me nuts when you post something and it says "error" try again. Then you post again, only to find you entered the same comment twice. ... so 'Comment removed'

[TeunisD]

Where is the original quote of Sack, and where can I contact him!?

[blackonpaper]

it would be much more easy for the WT to make up another timline, and say that we are now in 1965 and not 2011.

The sad thing is that the Jehovah's witnesses would believe it. The WT could then run the 1975 thing again - and as we know the Jehovah's witnesses would believe it. sad sad sad

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@blackonpaper that was very funny, very sad, but very funny!. If ya didn't laugh at it, you'd have to cry over it...

[barbsinclair]

I'm reviewing 607 date in "Live Forever" bk pg138-141.SEE pg138-139; they say the tree in Dan4:

>"heaven-high tree,comes to represent the supreme rulership of God" and "WAS CUT DOWN."

WOW JWs religious rulers teach their god got his supreme rulership cut down! JWs serve a very weak god, a god of this world even Babylon

Truth =Daniel interprets v19-27: tree refers to Babylon king, Nebuchadnezzar. And a watcher with a Holy One came down from heaven cut it down as "decree of the Most High" v23-24

[barbsinclair]

607-586 = 21. For heaven's sake, its just 21yrs., and JW religion mandates JWs to hate, shun, and consider all dead apostates who don't agree with their destruction date of earthly Jerusalem and its Temple.

JWs religious rulers don't know Christ the Lord Jesus, nor do they understand His Word:

"But I say unto you, that in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless" Mt12:6-7.

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@barbsinclair you know what Barb, you made an interesting point...the Watchtower Leaders will be the FIRST ones to tell you "we are not inspired", "we are not infallible"....that being the case, why will they not allow their followers to accept a date that is UNIVERSALLY accepted by most scholars that's only 20-21 years off?

[barbsinclair]

@TheSnarkyApologist

ya because 20-21 years off, ends their authority as "the faithful and discreet slave" of Mt24:45-47.

"Who REALLY is the faithful and discreet salve whom his master appointed...?" WHAT does the BIBLE REALLY teach?

= All believers are "fellow slaves" in the Son's house: "Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." Heb3:6

= the evil slave shall "beat his fellow slaves" Mt24:48-51

[barbsinclair]

@TheSnarkyApologist >"why will they not allow their followers to accept a date that is UNIVERSALLY accepted by most scholars that's only 20-21 years off?"

That's the entire theology and belief system of the JWs religious system of things; the religious rulers of JWs can't allow their followers to accept anything that is UNIVERSALLY accepted by most scholars.

Ever notice that?

[NeedUpgrade]

@barbsinclair What is funny is that 1914 was wrong, it was not "the end of system of things". They could as well say that 586 was correct and that Jesus returned in 1893.

[barbsinclair]

@NeedUpgrade >"They could as well say that 586 was correct and that Jesus returned in 1893."

lol Ya, and then they also could of well said: LOOK all YOU people, the number 7 is Jehovah God's perfect number, so in 7 years the world would end at the turn of the century. Watch that clock brothers, Dec 31st, 1899 at midnight, the clock is going to go "CLICK", and then presto-changeo, "BOOM".

ha

[barbsinclair]

@TheSnarkyApologist

thegoverningbody . org

[DontTweakTheGreek]

Even using "BCE" is a way to deny Christ - Before Common Era'

[Snowball99]

607 vs 587 was the reason I woke up and questioned the WTS back in 1998. My wife turned me in to the elders, and I was subjected to a heresy trial and expelled. My family still shuns me 12 years later

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@Snowball99 Wow, what a heart break for your family to turn you in and still shun you. This is an EVIL, WICKED organization. I hope that has not kept you away from a relationship with the TRUE Lord Jesus Christ? Not that it's my business. I am glad you are free from the nonsense of the false prophet now.

Blessings!

Bill

[barbsinclair]

@mosherincxjw

WTS lies teaching >"After his death, Jesus was ressurected and went to heaven. There he waited for God to say when it would be time for him to start ruling as King of Gods Kingdom."

WTS continue's this horrendous lie in book "WHAT DOES THE BIBLE Really TEACH?" pg46, par21

TRUTH = The Word of God teaches He was BORN KING of the Kingdom of God; as He said to Pontius Pilate:

"Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world" Jn18:37

[epidome]

Hey SnarkyApologist isn't the lying and deceiving that the WT is doing here justified by the theocratic warfare doctrine? On 21crosscheck21's video on theocratic warefare you see JWs defending that the WT is right about being deceptive and lying even though it is to them that the WT lies and deceives. It seems to me to be like students saying that it is okay that our teacher tells us that Abraham Lincoln assassinated John Booth even if everyone else says it isn't true it doesn't matter.

[erbell98]

I also contacted Dr. Eliat Mazar and she replied she has never supported the date of 607 BCE.

[afterraincomessun]

snarky you just want to mislead the UNEXPERIENCED

 BUT YOU CANT MISLEAD THOSE WHO ARE WELL INFORMED

[erbell98]

@afterraincomessun "YOU CANT MISLEAD THOSE WHO ARE WELL INFORMED " You can not possibly be talking about Jehovah's Witnesses. JW's are not well informed about their own religion. They relegate thinking ability to the Watchtower Bible & Tract $ociety.

Do the research yourself. Verify the sources and see for yourself. Those who are well informed take no ones word for it. Can you say that honestly? Do you do anything without the WBT$ approval? Snarky commented on things that can be proven.

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@erbell98 yeah....so THERE! na na na na nana!! ; )

[afterraincomessun]

@erbell98 i dont think you know who you are talking to.

i know your doubts against the witnesses its clear from your message:

but things are different than you would think at first:

do you believe in Jehovah ?

if not than i cannot communicate with you because you are in a different world

But

there are big reasons to believe in Him , who made the DNA

[afterraincomessun]

@erbell98 there is no real REAL ARGUMENT against the witnesses

do yourself a favor: read that watchtower article or listen to it

go to worldwide association of Jehovahs witnesses

then downloads

then choose magasins oktober 2011

its a miracle article

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@afterraincomessun toooooo late....her eye's have been opened to the truth my friend. just like yours should be Bernard. Let me ask you this....why would you say the Watchtower Governing Body is NOT a false prophet according to the Bible?

I'll be looking for your answer Bernard.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@afterraincomessun But the problem like snarky has just proven is, that you CAN'T trust the Watchtower. So why do you insist on quoting it?

why don't you write to these people yourself? The WT IS quoting them as an authority on the subject. If they come back with a 607 date, then you'll know. If not, our church starts every Sunday at 10:00 AM. See you there.

[erbell98]

@afterraincomessun I have read both the articles. I don't think you have carefully read them. This video is about how the WT is misrepresenting scholars. Have you tried to contact the scholars in these articles or looked up the references yourself. I contacted Dr. Eliat Mazar who's finds are taken out of context in the Jeremiah book on pg 55. I'm currently looking into the other sources mentioned in the WT have you?

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@afterraincomessun are you kidding???? Look at how misinformed you are my friend! If your handlers told you that the Bible is best read upside down, you would immediately start reading it standing on your head!

Wake up my friend. Test ALL things, INCLUDING the False Prophet Watchtower!

[afterraincomessun]

we dont base our views on just one article

and also it is some conclusions of a writer that we may use without using all the stuf a writer provides

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@afterraincomessun it's just like the Should You Believe in the Trinity Rag! Almost every single quote, source, or reference they cite is twisted on purpose. They totally misrepresented their sources. And if you want to challenge me on that....PLEASE DO....PUT YOUR FAITH WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! If I am wrong you have nothing to fear. But, YOU and I know I am right, so stop flapping gums and call my bluff....bawk...bawk...bawk...­.

[afterraincomessun]

let the watchtower speak for itself and dont listen to snarky irritating

[afterraincomessun]

there is so much good arguments in this oktober issue of the watchtower

we dont lie about it snarky , you just cant stand the evidence

[afterraincomessun]

When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part 1—Why It Matters; What the Evidence Shows

read it yourself and dont listen to this snarky guy

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@afterraincomessun Yeah read it for yourself. Then ask yourself this question..."why is the Watchtower misrepresenting those they are quoting? Why is it that the two scholars we contacted BECAME ENRAGED at how they were misrepresented by the False Prophet???

[SteeleHorse45]

Love and Honor All Beings!

[jonsixtythree]

The Watchtower has to be one of the most easily contradicted religions ever.

[dallywally72]

but....but.....but......lol

[TheSnarkyApologist]

@dallywally72 hahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

[1914watcher]

Jan 2011 AWAKE: Are Faith and Reason Incompatible?

What, though, if what you learn seems to contradict some of your deeply held beliefs? Should you just ignore it? Of course not. Many people have “inherited” their religious beliefs and have never seriously examined them in the light of reason. Yet, it is not a sign of disrespect to examine what you believe so as to ‘prove to yourself’ that your thinking is in harmony with God’s Word.

Well, I couldn't have said that any better.. LOL!

[WakeUpWitness]

If I had 10 thumbs I'd give you 10 thumbs up!

Let me also say that Ronald Sack contacted me again and said this...:"Please post my response. People should know how much falsehood is associated with the watchtower article." Thanks.

Ron Sack

[TheSnarkyApologist]

hahahahaha....one thumbs down, yet no JW commenting! This is all factual information. They don't like the facts? Yeppers, that WOULD make sense wouldn't it!

[yeshuaYHVHechad]

I have one word to describe this video, "Really Excellent!" ...Wait....1...2....uh......ma­ke that two words.

[MrsLPG]

52 pickup..anyone?



[barbsinclair]

@MrsLPG

amazing what a bicycle pump can do eh

[msm1876]

This is tremendous homework here. Just magnificent.

[rachelbinto]

Real reason they use 607, is that Russell calculated 1914 from the measurements of the pyramids to set that date. From there they go back. Initially he calculated 1874 from the pyramid measurements, but in 1910 new light showed him the error in distance to the entrance of the "Pit,. Either that or the distance to the entrance of the "Pit" changed. Eventually they kept the date, but discarded their initial reasoning for the date. JWs should know these things.

[inspirediam]

The house of cards at the end, EPIC. :-)

[LuciousVBogeymanProd]

I don't comment enough, but I love all your vids this is among the best.

[barbsinclair]

bro Bill,

request that user "WakeUpWitness" allows you to attach this to his video on this same topic with Dr. Eliat Mazar. Oh BTW - he emailed her. I just sent this info to brother Robert Hommel of "For An Answer", to put on his "Top Scholar" link.

Here is WakeUpWitness video:

/watch?v=hD5Utd1IL_g

[Galmozzi99]

@barbsinclair Hey Barb, I recently had an document of mine added to "For An Answer". Check out "Finished Mystery Facts" under the topical studies / WT literature.

Don

[barbsinclair]

@Galmozzi99

Wonderful brother Don! I'm going over there now and looking forward to Roberts email.

For those who want Don's direct link to his document - its in pdf format here:

forananswer . org/Top_JW/Finished%20Mystery%­20Facts . pdf

Also I'm so pleased with these recent developments on the 607 lie, VERY timely! I agree with Bill: Huge xxxxx and (((hugs))) for WakeUpWitness research and concern!

[jtimmis]

as always....amazing! i just sent this to a couple of my jw friends.