This is just a poor posing martial art it isn't even a martial art it's just acting besides that you don't need to see this video to realize it you can spar with them and you can see they are defenseless and they can not apply any of their techniques.
What you saw is that Hatsumi was showing kata, instead of Mr. Chambers who was shown only a swing from shinai. These two video parts were deliberately cut from author of this video, but actually true video shows that those are two different technics. Mr. SlapupChrist or whatever is your name, I am challenge you to go to Japan and try to hit blindfolded Soke Hatsumi with shinai in any way you want, and you will see that Hatsumi can react in close distance in same way that he shows in the kata.
And there is timing. If you move too soon you will be caught. You have to move at the point where your attacher thinks he is certain to hit you.
Apart from your comments this clip is very good.
The distance Hatsumi chooses is evading distance. The distance the other guy chooses is engagement distance but he tries to evade (poorly). He should go against the attacker and try to get hold of the hilt to deflect the sword, or move forward and below the reach of the attacker.
I can understand your comments, but maybe there is more to it than it seems.
One who is defending himself (tori) is choosing the distance. This is the main difference why Hatsumi is further... when standing against a man with a sword you would want to stay away. The other guy is walking towards the man with the sword, which is not very clever.
You can notice that Hatsumi moves his entire body while evading the blows. The other guy dodges. You cannot dodge a sword lest the cut goes sideways.
@greenpinkyellow It's the artists/Instructors that insist on "proving their art" that failed to improve themselves through life. Try being a better person, and you will be a better fight technician, whatever your training choice is.
I must say, i am a Muay Thai practitioner, however have found myself curious to many Japanese martial arts. While researching about the Bujinkan organisation, it becomes clear that not everything fits perfectly in the puzzle. On the other hand, some sources claim that Hatsumi's teacher made it all up, however, i find it hard that one man can make up 9 different Ryu, or martial art systems. I am on the fence, but i think it is wrong that they do not enter competitions to test their mettle.
I will say I despise that the majority of Bujers believe the Buj is the ONLY combat art left. What about FMA? Relatively unchanged bc it STILL works. I trained Buj for a long time but ALWAYS crosstrained in BJJ judo FMA and more. I aint aftmraid to try new things or think outside the cultish mindset most Bujers seem to have for some reason....
people like you slapupchrist make me sad..... the bujinkan is one of the most truly living arts left in this world... its not about rank or hand to hand skills.. its the way of life.. something you obviously missed....
It's all about 'the way of life', is it fitnessronin?
LOL!!!
So, let me get this straight: Bujinkan ninjer LARPers spend hours every week pretending to lock, throw, strike and choke one another so as to learn a 'way of life'...
Listen, you cliched Japanophile, the Bujinkan is a fake so-called martial art that neither teaches self defence nor bona fide koryu.
I would agree with the poster of this video it is roleplay. However the techniques practiced in the majority of martial arts when performed in a real life context, do not look slick or cool. its function over form HIYAAAAHH
The purpose of this video is to show how ridiculous Bujinkan training is EVEN WHEN DONE BY THE 'GRANDMASTER' HIMSELF.
So, wouldn't you say it makes more sense to practice martial arts techniques in such a way that you actually learn how to apply them AGAINST RESISTANCE?
Not every martial art is a LARP-fest, mate.
The Bujinkan is one of the most unrealistic, unrealistic load of bollocks ever marketed.
Bujinkanes de mierda, si van a jugar a los ninja por lo menos acepten que no lo son. Tras de que su "Taijutsu" es pura mierda y mas parece un ballet que un arte marcial, y encima de todo cobrando bien caro diciendo que es "de calidad". Si quieren seguir jugando háganlo pero al menos acepten que no son ninjas, ni siquiera artistas marcials malditos payasos de circo.
Jajajajaj Bujinkan del culo... fuí parte de ellos por varios años y sólo son una farsa, ojalá se le acabe el cuentico a ese viejo cacorro pseudo ninja.
@slapupchrist Ok ok I'll post comments in english. What I said is that I was part of Bujinfake for 4 years and they are only that, a fake. I hope it gets finished soon because they are ashaming martial arts.
Well, trollingloverfull, one of the original Bujinkan LARPers, Oguri, died on the 17th of this month.
Hatsumi can't last much longer, and the others are getting old too.
Once Hatsumi and all the Japanese shihan are dead, the Bujinkan will be a fragmented Westernised cult with even less crdibility than it has now; at that point, aikido will be the most ridiculous Japan-based martial art.
@slapupchrist Well let's just hope he doesn't put another "Soke" before his death. By the way, why you consider aikido to be ridiculous?? I don't practice it but I just feel curious to know.
@slapupchrist It is quite obvious that he doesn't even try to hit Hatsumi, he's throwing himself off balance, which makes it really easy for Hatsumi to disarm him. Seems that when he has the "Non-Bujinkan" guy in front of him, he suddenly remembers how to strike, I give you that. I am not a bujinkan practitioner, I train Inosanto Kali, Silat and Jun Fan. Just wondering how effective bujinkan would be in a street fight, I mean with most moves being telegraphic and stances quite folkloric.
bonsaimountain, the Bujinkan would not be effective in a street fight because all that the Bujinkan consists of is slow motion role playing, and fanciful long-winded moves that rely on the opponent standing still and letting the technique happen.
There is absolutely no evidence of Bujinkan training against resistance; this is because you can't make a standing wrist lock work on someone who moves their feet. Likewise, no one in real life throws slow lunge punches on the street.
As Official Representative for Bujinkan Fake Arts Corp International, I can confirm that our entire organization is afraid of a YouTube account called slapupchrist. We refuse to furnish slapupchrist with proof of effectiveness because we admit we are fake. Please go learn a real art, not Bujinkan. We suck and slapupchrist really does know everything. Everything.
greenpinkyellow, it is clear that you know very little because, rather than provide evidence of realistic Bujinkan training, you resort to sarcasm; that's what ninjer enthusiasts do when they have nothing of substance to offer.
Yet another LARPer talks-up the Buj, but offers nothing of substance.
@slapupchrist As Official Representative for Bujinkan Fake Arts Corp International, I can confirm that our entire organization is afraid of a YouTube account called slapupchrist. We refuse to furnish slapupchrist with proof of effectiveness because we admit we are fake. Please go learn a real art, not Bujinkan. We suck and slapupchrist really does know everything. Everything.
greenpinkyellow, you'd do better to tell your relatives that the Bujinkan is a commercial enterprise that was invented by a man named Hatsumi, and that there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF VIDEO EVIDENCE to prove that it is anything other than a laughable collection of fanciful theories.
THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BUJINKAN THAT WOULD QUALIFY IT AS BEING A REENACTMENT OF ANYTHING TO DO WITH HISTORY; THE BUJINKAN IS MADE-UP OF TOTALLY UNPROVEN, UNREALISTIC BOLLOCKS.
The second guy was standing too close, but that doesnt excuse the fact that the assailant clearly wasnt trying to hit hatsumi. Iv seen tons of hatsumi vids and notice the same thing in everyone of them. His opponents dont actually try to hurt him or resist at all, they just take a dive.
bujinkunt is a mcdojo chain.... its bullshit most people dont know what they are talking about... they see the world as they want to not as it is..accept the fact that it looks pretty but its all bullshit
Alright. As simply as possible, When you swing a katana, Or any equivilant Japanese sword, you aren't swinging it like a club, (example two) It is a kind of sliding motion designed to push or pull the edge of the blade (which is what the swords actually use, rather than weight) Across and therefore through the target.(example one) Speaking from an actual combat point of view, The demonstration by Hatsumi is between two skilled practioners. Full speed always looks different. Ever used a sword?
@slapupchrist A demonstration of how fool was the non-bujinkan guy to walk straight to an armed opponent. If I were in his place I would try to be away enough, like Hatsumi did.
if u notice, the non-bujinkan guy is moving toward the sword...i would think that Hatsumi Sensei is smart enough to stand far away from the sword so he doesn't get cut, and as u can see, he does keep his distance...as for the non-bujinkan guy, he starts off like arms length from the sword which isn't smart and of course he's going to get hit...so before u try to slander Bujinkan Ninjutsu watch the video closely, ok?
same as most martial arts its a cash cow for the founders, but this is not to say the style or techniques dont work as with all martial arts the combat effectivness is more to do with the person using it rather than the system itself......as the saying goes its not the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog that counts
Besides, maybe it's true that Hatsumi has no material proofs to support his claims, but neither his opponents have any proof that says he is no Soke. Not everything is on books and documents. And Bujinkan Taijutsu DOES WORK. My instructor once defended himself from a thief armed with a revolver, the incident was broadcasted in the news through all the country.
@edelric422 you say not everything is in books and documents,. did you know that Hatsumi has never let his documents be authenticated? That is usually the maneuver of a con,. The Japanese are all about their paperwork.
Hatusmi is a hoax because he will not prove himself. The burden of proof lies in those who make the claim, and he claims to be soke of a million arts or whatever, and so far he cannot provide any evidence before Toda who himself was pretty much proven a liar. screw ninjas.
This only proves that the non-Bujinkan has not much common sense. If I were in his place I wouldn't try to get so close to the shinai guy. The non-Bujinkan was the one walking straight to an armed opponent.
I´m from bujinkan, and I noticed this when I first saw the show its in.
When I get my 1st or 2nd dan I will teach bujinkan the way a combat system is suposed to be taught! Let me tell ya right now that I dont buy everything Maasaki hatsumi says or does. I became disilusioned years ago!
When you say you'll "teach bujinkan the way a combat system is suposed to be taught", what exactly will you be teaching?
When you say that you "dont buy everything Maasaki hatsumi says or does", then how can you say you are a Bujinkan practitioner?
Hatsumi IS THE BUJINKAN; he's it, mate. What Hatsumi says or does IS THE BUJINKAN; he invented it. If you disagree with Hatsumi, you disagree with the Bujinkan, and you should go and do something else.
@slapupchrist Maybe you´re right, but for practical reasons for now its best for me to keep being associated with the Bujinkan, Later, maybe I´ll train with other federations, but I need a valid instructor degree to teach my way. I will not invent an association or anything, I just want to put intensity, realism and quality testing, some objectivity in graduations. I dont think I am a "heretic" for that.
Firstly, there is no 'valid instructor degree' in a Bujinkan second dan! Are you serious??? LOL!!! The Bujinkan is NOT RECOGNISED OUTSIDE OF HATSUMI'S CULT.
Secondly, you haven't described exactly what you will be teaching. You say you want to "put intensity, realism and quality testing, some objectivity in graduations."
Er... what will you be 'quality testing'? Standing wrist locks? Lunge punches? Extended finger strikes? Grabbing a punch in mid-flight?
@slapupchrist. You really are persistent :-) I cant for practical reasons explain the details of what
i intend to do, partly because I am still figuring it out. I still have to do a lot trial and error and to talk to more experienced bujinkan "renegades". To give you an example, some wrist grab tecniques were designed to be used against weapon atacks,not exactly modern day punches.If you put everithing in context and cut out the bulshit a lot of what is taught today actually makes sense!
@CBoavida But I will probably change organizations later on, maybe the Japan Ninjutsu Federation, or become independant I dont know. I dont mind starting over from a" legitimate" organization, but for now I´ll work on perfecting my own skills, learning from other systems, discussing details from more knowlegeable people, triming the fat...
I´m not a kid anymore and has I get older I can see thru a lot of the politics and bullshit.
What´s important is that you keep inproving and keep training
@OMFGHUGEWOLF Of course, I dont exactly blame him too, but there should be standards, and objectivity. Some kind of quality control. And randori should be done regularly.How can you learn combat without actually doing combat!
recoveringangels, you say "maybe the role playing goes on."
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE look at EVERY official video/DVD, and EVERY clip on You Tube, and EVERY video/DVD by Bujinkan teachers, and tell me if you see anything other than plain LARPing.
Every bujinkan teacher is free to teach it his way. This includes randori at many schools, but a lot of them want to teach the principle and not prepare a student for a contest or something like that. It really depends on the student which style of learning a martial art ist the best for him/her. You might not find this very attractive, but not everyone is like you. Remember that.
qll4mail, I've been listening to people like you for years and years; you make statements that are so cliched that it's positively nausea-inducing.
Lets start with a simple one, shall we?
You say "Every bujinkan teacher is free to teach it his way."
Please tell us all what you mean by 'it'. What, exactly, are Bujinkan teachers free to teach 'their own way'? What is this thing that they teach? Describe it. Define it. I challenge you.
@slapupchrist Principles and techniques that have proven themselves, e.g. in other martial arts (because some bujinkan schools have common roots with them). Some teachers change them to reflect modern fighting, some don't. Take Stephen Hayes as an example for someone who changed Bujinkan to reflect modern combat (I've just seen videos about his To-Shin-Do, so don't take my word on it). You may believe what you want... neither I nor anybody else have to proove anything to you or justify the art
Very interesting that there is always someone who is really inpatient and gets very angry at something he does not really understand. Mostly these people just post an angry comment and not a whole video. Hatsumi demonstrates the principle of moving his feet and not the upper body which makes the movement very foreseeable. Of course the student won't embarass Hatsumi with actually hitting him. The true value of this lies in the principles and techniques that Hatsumi teaches.
qll4mail, don't you think the principle of 'moving your feet' could be demonstrated in a realistic and practical way?
Please answer the following question: WHY DOES HATSUMI CHOOSE TO DEMONSTRATE ALL THE 'PRINCIPLES' OF BUJINKAN TAIJUTSU BY USING TOTALLY UNREALISTIC SCENARIOS AND REACTIONS TO TECHNIQUES?
@slapupchrist I wonder what you have seen from Hatsumi? Just YouTube videos where everybody wanted to look nice for the camera or did you really participate in a real Dojo-Training? I would never dare to judge somebody if I did not met him.
Anyways you will not reply to my real arguments but ask some suggestive question which does not really sense... again: Think whatever you want, but I have found a martial art that is more intelligent than mindlessly hitting each other without understanding
@slapupchrist Interesting story you have got there and you seem to be someone who desperately wants to learn the "best" self defence system. I believe that bujinkan was never the right thing for you to do. If I have followed your argumentation correctly you would say that Aikido is pure LARPing,too (because it isnt practiced against resisting opponents). I will not argue over the topic with someone who claims to have more experience than me so I'll have to learn about "the truth" "the hard way".
Good luck with the time you waste training in the Bujinkan, qll4mail; I hope you wake up soon.
As for aikido, you are spot on: I consider aikido to be absolute LARPing bollocks. Aikido is where Hatsumi got some of his most ridiculous LARPing ideas from.
@recoveringangels no, you are right, as you imply, I was wrong for saying that. He is not a dummy. He was trying to replicate what Hatsumi did. Just like everyone else. Maybe Hatsumi is a fraud, maybe he isnt. Never trained with him. I think slapupchrist has better experience with that, and has more of a right to his opinion than those that havent trained IMO. But I dont think this video proves anything again IMO.
The non bujinkan guy is a dummy for moving closer to the sword. With knives or swords, get away from the knife or sword right? Duh, because it has a limited range of attack. Doesnt take a ninja or bujinkaner to know that, called common sense
nin9lives, are you really so moronic that you cannot see the reason for this video? It's not about the non-Bujinkan guy; it's about the ludicrous play-acting by the Bujinkan guy with the shinai, the ridiculous distance that he initiates his 'cut' from, and the ineffective load of crap that Hatsumi does when his cult disciple just stands there and waits for his cue to take a dive.
@slapupchrist Im not a ninjer or ninja or whatever, ya, like you, I can admit at one point I was a wannabe. I used to train in bujinkan, havent in a long time. Whether I am a moron or not, I really dont think thats your place to judge. Doesnt seem like you are the brightest either if you were training and spending tons of money on what you claim to be a fraud. Bottom line is, the "nonbujinkaner" shouldnt have walked up to a sword and your video proves nothing as a result.
In fights involving katanas, the two opponents would try to stay out of the reach of the weapon. The second guy just kept trying to simply walk toward the armed one and dodge his hits. Thing is, you don't walk toward someone with a sword.
Oh, I see, BiBy360! Thanks so much for explaining that to us all. We were all way too stupid to realise that you shouldn't walk toward a guy wielding a sword. No wonder I got my arms and legs chopped-off, the other day. Silly me; I shouldn't have walked toward that guy with the katana. Tut, tut. Silly me.
Um... by the way, have you considered that it is also a stupid idea to swing a sword at someone if they're standing half a mile away from you? Have you considered the idea of getting closer?
@BiBy360 In a fight with any sword, only a complete noob would make his cuts so deep and over extended. Anyone can dodge a sword when the attacker does that, so in this case, either the demo is BS or the uke is doing Hatsumi a disservice by cutting badly.
Tienkou111, why are you commenting here if you can't lend to the discussion with an intelligent and insightful view on the content of the video?
Proclaiming the progenitor of the video as being someone with problems is neither a mature offering, nor a helpful addition to what has already been said on this forum.
If you manage to come-up with something more worthwhile to say, then please do comment again. Otherwise, please relegate your cliched lines to a less grown-up audience.
@slapupchrist I've trained in Bujinkan and no one school is alike. You must be a tool. Come to my class and I'll show what I can do with this obviously useless Martial Art.
MrLeicamaster, rather than extending an invitation that you know I wont accept (as if I'm about to travel to a dojo to settle an argument on You Tube), how about you upload a video of your dojo TRAINING BUJINKAN TECHNIQUES AGAINST FULL RESISTANCE?
There are thousands of Bujinkan videos out there, why don't you make history, and show us the first video of TRAINING BUJINKAN TECHNIQUES AGAINST FULL RESISTANCE?
@slapupchrist I don't make videos sorry. I might be able to find you schools who have different training methods within Bujinkan. Same techniques, but different training methods. That's what this really comes down to anyway. The techniques are sound, it's just the training methods you seem to have a problem with.
There's more to the Bujinkan con that the training methods, MrLeicamaster.
I suggest you have a think about the techniques being trained: standing wrist locks, lunge punches, strikes to the punching arm/hand, catching a punch, etc, etc. It would matter how you trained this kind of nonsense; it's still NONSENSE.
The Bujinkan is based on jujutsu; some of the techniques are sound, and others are absolute rubbish.
If you had an open mind my level of experience, you'd agree.
@slapupchrist standing wrist locks, lunge punches, strikes to the punching arm/hand, catching a punch, etc, etc. are non-sense? Why because you can't do them? Ok catching a punch is something that will probably never happen, but you don't understand the basic principles you learn when being taught these techniques because you haven't trained them. I have put people in wrist locks with full resistance. You don't understand and you'll never understand.
@slapupchrist Have you trained BJJ? Ok you know how you drill an armbar over and over until you get to spar and sometimes you can get an armbar and sometimes you can't, depending on your partner? So you might go for an armbar and you fail so you go for something else or use it to set up for something else? Some thing dude. You just don't know what you're looking at cause you don't know how to make it work. If it makes you feel better to poopoo someone else's Martial Art than go ahead.
The first thing i Notice is: Hatsumi stands still, while the other guy moves forward. The attacker goes offensive against Hatsumi and defensive against the non-bujinkan guy. I am almost certain we would see another reaction then.
Well Well ..fat slapper is still around ..grunting behind his computer ..oink oink !!.. Dont you ever get tired of going over the same shit over and over .. ..whats the secret dude ..there is no secret..:)..
Answer is simple. You just stay away from Hatsumi instinctively because the man feels dangerous. And Hatsumi makes the right distance himself anyways. And if he could not for geographical reasons, he wouldn't avoid the sword the same way. And you're just looking at tiny details without wondering the why of the details. Reverse thing of what science is about.
@BernardMitochondrie dude this is a complete LARP. Hatsumi is a fraud. you boojers come in and think we know nothing, but the reality is you boojers are LARPers and follow that old coot, without second guessing him. and that is metally retarded
@bizitch71717 Good. Why don't you tell us your background in martial arts, mister? Because before being a "boojer", I actually studied other martial arts. I bet with such an affirmative tone you have at least 5 years experience in at least one martial art. Because if you don't I don't know if confidence in your words would be well-placed.
@BernardMitochondrie i can shoot a pistol, which is more dangerous than anything in the booj, or a shotgun which is more dangerous than anything in the booj. I have my purple belt in BJJ and I have been in several scuffs in my life. I have participated in the booj. it is crap compared to other arts. certain maneuvers in isolation are good, however, there is not a boojer I have met that has the ability to set any of these techniques up, using boojinkan martial arts
@bizitch71717 BJJ is quite nice, and fairly efficient as long as the opponent decides for no reason not to hit you in the groin. It is very good combined with a sparring system if you do MMA.
I believe purple belt is obtained after 2 to 4 years of work depending on your natural skill and dedication.
I personnally studied martial arts a total of 12 years, and have been in "scuffs" alright.
Bujinkan training is slow and technical, it does not make it unneficient.
@BernardMitochondrie when adrenaline is rushing you don't even feel hits, including those to the groin. I've had my groin hit, eyes gouged at, people try to break my fingers. It means shit if you don't know how to apply them properly. I've been in BJJ for 8 years, more off than on, but have studied many different concepts relating to combat. Bujinkan training is inefficient. it does not prepare you for a full out confrontation.
@bizitch71717 Things being shady does not mean they are wrong. There's few eveidence about most historical fighters. Musashi's story is blurry too... If I'm correct, there's also blurry zones in the history of BJJ.
Adrenaline has this effect. However, a powerful shot a Sui Getsu (Solar Plexus) puts you down, whatever the circumpstances. Applying force to joints and sensitive spots is very important in martial arts, and central in BJJ, which is only about joint locks. Stop contradicting yourself.
BernardMitochondrie, if 'things being shady does not mean they are wrong', then how do you feel about stories of alien abductions, fairies at the bottom of the garden, and the parting of the red sea by Moses, Nathan and God the Father?
Please give the rational people a break, you deluded ninjer wannabe; some of us aren't interested in believing stories told to us by black pajama-clad internet warriors.
@slapupchrist What I meant is the fact that you can't ask for absolute proof of historical events... Having sufficient info is eventually... Sufficient. Please prove me that Mozart did write his pieces. You can't. You can say it's very likely because sufficient documents show that. But in the end, he might have been a con and had a genius locked in his basement...
I don't wear pyjamas at night. And I don't like being called a "ninjer". I did more martial arts than you did, kid.
BernardMitochondrie, for your information, there hundreds of scores by Mozart in his own hand. There are many contemporary accounts of Mozart composing and performing works.
What you are referring to is better illustrated by the fact that there is not a single piece of poetry or prose in Shakespeare's hand. In that case, I agree that Shakespeare is not proven to be the author of the plays and sonnets.
Similarly, there is absolutely no contemporary writings to prove Takamatsu ever was a ninja.
BernardMitochondrie, you betray your classic cliched ninjer wannabe rationale by asserting that you 'did more martial arts' than I ever did. what do you base that claim on? Have you been watching my training since I was a child???
Listen, you idiot, why the hell can't you just stick to facts and figures, instead of making unfounded claims to support your deluded views?
If you're going to say that Takamatsu was a deadly warrior, provide the evidence rather than suggest I challenge a dojo. LOL!
@slapupchrist You know what, let's assume Takamatsu's schools are not ninpo. It's just obscure schools. And he never went to mongolia. And so on and so forth. Well look at all the fucks I give!
I like the martial art, I find it interesting in many ways and I am eager to learn more about it. That's all. I don't want to be a Ninja. I am not one. I am a Bujinkan Tsukai. Now, again, please go ahead and show us your curriculum vitae. Hope it's bigger than bizitch's.
"dude, this guy is relentless lol, he's a complete idiot." ==> Try to be civilized.
"it's very hard to be civilized with these people. I just want to smack him." ==> If you REALLY can't, why don't you do try to smack me? Instead of priding around behind your computer thinking you're so bad-ass, you should train and get a better belt. 8 years for purple, I call Bullshit on that.
@slapupchrist "If you think Bujinkan is b/s, then challenge a dojo" ==> You're the ones asking for proof. Provide yours.
"Takamatsu was a real life ninjer" ==> He was a warrior of great skill. What's the relevance with "ninjers"?
"You were obviously kicked out of the Buj" ==> Never said that. You probably left it because it's important for most people to leave and criticize their first MA. I did it.
"We don't compete because we're too deadly" ==> You want a fight? Come around!
BernardMitochondrie, the reason sceptics like me ask for proof is because claims are being made that are unfounded.
People like bizitch and I aren't claiming to know secret techniques, thousand-year-old traditions, battle-tested deadliness, etc. We don't talk about the greatness of a warrior that we really know nothing truthful about.
You, son, need to take off the blinkers. You're parroting religious-style clap trap that you have no proof for.
BernardMitochondrie, you say Takamatsu was a 'warrior of great skill'. That's a claim. Where's the evidence? Where's the historical proof?
Please try to understand, son: when you and your ninpo/ninjer buddies try to convince intelligent people that Takamatsu was a great warrior, or that THE BUJINKAN SPARS IN TRAINING, the onus is on you to show proof.
Have you heard of King Arthur? Do you believe the stories of Camelot? Is it in the history books?
Okay, Bernard, you need to just sit up, pay attention, and cooperate or I'll dismiss you as being yet another moron who's incapable/unwilling when it comes to intelligently discussing this subject.
Although it may come as a blow to your ego, the examples I gave in quotation marks weren't solely by you; you're just one of many that people like bizitch and I have been laughing at for years.
Asking us to challenge a dojo is the NUMBER ONE most cliched response to criticism of the Buj.
"Hatsumi could kick your arse" ==> Never said that. I don't know. He's getting kinda old, he saiys it himself.
"You've never done martial arts in your life" ==> Again, I never said that. I said I did more though. And more seriously. I stand by my position with only as proof your obvious misunderstanding of bujinkan's teachings.
@slapupchrist I believe that if you had done enough MA's, you would be a little less pretentious. When I was young, I was like you. I hated chinese MAs. I tried them and it seemed weak and nonsense to me. Until the day I got owned by a Kung Fu master. Then I realized it was just more about the warrior than the technique. Some people are made for this, some for that. There's no such thing as a bullshit MA, except the ones that just say "throw chi arrows though your mouth and opponent will die".
Oh, that's right, BernardMitochondrie, I forgot the other main cliche: "There are no bad martial arts, just bad martial artists".
Really, son, you just so obviously betray your relative immaturity in this subject; once you open your eyes, and get back to basic logic, you can see that there are very simple things that determine if a martial art is worth bothering with or not. LARPing, wearing outmoded clothing, practicing with pretend ancient weapons, etc = bad martial art.
@slapupchrist I am tailored for a specific kind of MA. My hits are not very sting, but quite precise. So I would sock at boxing, but Bujinkan is ok. I resist hits well, but I am not strong, so grappling is not my specialty. Et caetera. Bujinkan is well tailored for me. I take its teachings, I implement them in my fighting style. I learn its weaknesses though sparring with friends and try to avoid them or find a parade. This is called Martial arts. If you had done enough, you'd know that.
@slapupchrist Saying Takamatsu was a great warrior could be just like saying that "Leonardo Da Vinci was a great painter". It's admitted and it's in history books. But man, it is true, is proficient in lying, so it might be a big-ass lie. Let's assume it is. Now let's look at videos of Takamatsu showing his mastery of weapons. To the trained eye, it is obvious that he has a control over his weapon that neither I or you have achieved.
Absolute bullshit, BernardMitochondrie. There is not one video I have ever seen of Takamatsu (I think I've seen all the official ones) that shows anything other than an old man spinning a bo or messing around with a boken.
Again PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I CAN SEE TAKAMATSU MASTERFULLY WIELDING A WEAPON FAR IN ADVANCE OF WHAT YOU OR I COULD DO...
@slapupchrist If you have no such trained eye, practice Bojutsu or whatever for 5 years or such. Then look again and watch. This is years and years of dedicated work. If you say it's not against a resisting opponent, and it's just kata, well, you would be right, and that would be irrelevant. Before swimming ashore, you master the swimming pool. Same here.
@slapupchrist As for the bujinkan sparring, well, I do bujinkan, and I hereby testify that I do spar in my dojo. For proof, I could upload a video, but I have no camera, and way more interesting things to do in my dojo than shooting a video for you.
@BernardMitochondrie Wow, I should have read all your stupid posts firsts. You just happen to be unable to upload it. I'm sure you have friends who have cameras, but of course you can't borrow one. Go figure. You are a loser LARPer.
BernardMitochondrie, do you seriously think we haven't all heard the 'I don't have a camera' excuse before???
LOL!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha!!! Mate, you are absolutely hopeless!
DO YOU OWN A MOBILE PHONE? IF YOU DO, DOES IT HAVE A CAMERA? CAN YOU SPARE A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR LIFE UPLOADING A VIDEO FROM YOUR MOBILE PHONE SHOWING YOUR BUJINKAN SPARRING SESSIONS?
Think of it this way, son: instead of spending time arguing with me, you could upload a video of your Buj dojo sparring. What do you say?
@BernardMitochondrie your defending of the lie is proof of your own delusion. BJJ's history is not shady, it came from judo. that's pretty much the only story. obviously you've never participated in BJJ, or you might know that. plus there's much more to BJJ than just joint locks. you are ignorant.
@bizitch71717 The whole fact that grappling techniques exist in the first place is the existence of joint locks. If they did not exist, the strongest and most heavy would win all the time.
If I had the time to, I'd accept any challenge from you just to see how great must be a man of such confidence.
If you say that you have to use competition to make a proper martial art, you criticize also Krav Maga, Systema... If you do, please explain why special forces worldwide use them.
@BernardMitochondrie joint locks are a part of BJJ, they are not the only thing. there are a reason we learn sweeps, takedowns, fighting from our back, and also joint locks. there's more than one useful thing you can learn in BJJ. in the booj, that is not the guarantee. everything is set up horribly. Krav maga is ok, because there are many practitioners who spar, systema sucks. I hate soft arts, because they give a sense of false satisfaction.
@bizitch71717 So, you consider Krav Maga, Systema and Bujinkan to be "soft arts". As opposite to BJJ. Man, I'm laughing so hard right now.
Anyways, if you call "sparing" trying to counter techniques and play around trying to own the opponent using counter technique over counter technique, and never defining Tori and Uke, well, we do that in Bujinkan. Sorry if it destroys your whole argumentation.
Along with having a whole channel set-up just to hate bujinkan, I think you're not very credible.
@BernardMitochondrie No, krav maga is both a soft and hard art. They have practitioners who spar. People in systema and the booj DO NOT SPAR!!!! This is fact. And sparring isn't just counter techniques. There are attacks, defenses, and training against a RESISTING opponent. Resistance training is not a part of the boojer curriculum. All online booj I've seen has no resistance. In all the classes I've been in, no resistance. And the sensei was a bully.
@bizitch71717 You make a lot of claims. In my dojo of bujinkan, we spar. Period. This is factual as shit: I was there. When you learn a technique, there are several steps to it. First you do the technique against a compliant opponent. Then against a resisting opponent, that will only comply because of pain or lack of force. Then against a fighting opponent, who will try everything possible to avoid being beaten, including kicking your ass. That's how it's done.
@BernardMitochondrie You are lying. You do not spar. Don't patronize me, I've been training for years. And I've been busting ninjer ass for a long time now. 99.9% of boojer dojos do not spar. Record it and upload it, otherwise it does not exist. Your word is not good enough. and now you'll probably say, that your sensei won't let you record in the dojo. Hmm. i wonder what's coming next.
@bizitch71717 Even if I did record anything, you'd find a way to say it was set-up. You just can't accept that your knowledge of the world is not enough to comprehend everything in it. I kinda understand that you had bad experiences with Bujinkan given you live in the US. There are a lot of cons in the Bujinkan there. You should not make it a general point, though. Now, upload a video where you bust "ninjer" ass... Otherwise does not exist. And I'll say it was set up. It'll be constructive.
@BernardMitochondrie even if I thought your sparring was shitty, I would give you props for sparring. But you do not spar, you LARP. Sparring is completely discouraged throughout the booj. Either prove otherwise or you are lying.
@bizitch71717 I did LARP once, I found the murderer. Colonel Mustard it was. Do you seriously think after 10 years of various martial arts with great sensei's, I would just go "Fuck it, let's all play around and learn nothing in a dojo for hours a week"? Seriously?
"Sparring is completely discouraged throughout the booj" ==> Why would it be? Seriously? Why would any martial art decide to discourage people from having fun? This theory is totally nonsense, isn't it?
No, Bernard, not only is this NOT nonsense, it also ISN'T a theory; it's a fact that is proven by all the available evidence.
I was in the Bujinkan for ten years. Read my channel. I say the Buj discourages sparring. It definitely does.
Once again, for the twentieth time, show us evidence that the Bujinkan spars. Because from my experience, and EVERY VIDEO AVAILABLE, there is absolutely not a hint of training against realistic resistance.
You're so naive, insofar as this debate is concerned.
@slapupchrist Again, videos are technique demonstrations. And I did read your channel. You did Bujinkan in one dojo and a few seminars. Seminars are not meant for sparring. Your dojo, well, I don't know it.
Again, I know of no teacher that discourages sparring. I see no point in discouraging sparring. And I know what sparring means. And I know what resistance means. Compliance is only used among beginners to a new technique, at least in my dojo. The only compliant MA I know of is Aikido.
BernardMitochondrie, this is your last chance before being banned:
Quit giving us all your anecdotal bullshit, and upload a video of Bujinkan sparring.
I hereby state the following: THERE IS NO SPARRING IN ANY OFFICIAL BUJINKAN DOJO. HATSUMI HAS NEVER SPARRED WHEN TEACHING BUJINKAN, AND HE'S NEVER DEMONSTRATED AGAINST RESISTANCE.
If you cannot prove me wrong by showing me where this mythical Bujinkan resistance training exists, you're banned.
@slapupchrist Keikogis are worn in every japanese martial arts. Hatsumi may LARP, but not in his dojo. And the ancient weapons are not "pretend". As I said, changes nothing.
You state a lot of things since we talk. They're all wrong. There is sparring in official dojos. You can't ban me from Youtube. I do not need to grow up. Bujinkan is not a cult. My name is not Bernard, just like yours ain't slapup.
Prove these facts before stating them. Or just accept the fact you know nothing.
slapupchrist wrote: "THERE IS NO SPARRING IN ANY OFFICIAL BUJINKAN DOJO."
Sorry for replying to such an old comment, and no disrespect intended to anyone, but the above statement is not correct. There are several dôjô here in Japan where sparring and practice against resistance is indeed a fundamental part of training. Just to mention two in the Tôkyô area: Bujinkan Nakadai Dôjô (in Shiraoka, Ôtsuka and Aoyama) and Bujinkan Tezuka Dôjô (in Tabata).
@slapupchrist In the end, your "fact" is backed up by your personal experience in one single dojo, and a misinterpetation of videos posted on youtube.
You wanna be rational? Well, scientific argumentation: The fact that something does not exist is rarely a fact, and extremely hard to prove.
Again, I am in holidays, so no dojo. But even if I could, I'm having so much fun seeing you guys talking nonsense on capslock that I would keep arguing with you just for laughs.
@BernardMitochondrie To answer your first question, yes I do think that you would make that mistake. You are an idiot obviously. You are defending a group of frauds.
Maybe since you are French, you have no idea what sparring means in English. Sparring is when people get into a controlled fight, and each opponent resists with all his ability. Sure there is light sparring, intense sparring, mediocre sparring, etc. But there is always RESISTANCE applied. Booj training is all compliant
BernardMitochondrie, please show us video evidence of your Bujinkan dojo sparring USING BUJINKAN TAIJUTSU TECHNIQUES.
If you cannot/will not provide evidence of Bujinkan sparring at your dojo (WHICH NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER DONE), then you're no different to any other Buj LARPing liar on this forum.
@bizitch71717 "Either prove otherwise or you are lying." ==> Now, you just bent the rules of logic, son. That's just infortunate, but right now I'm in holidays, way away from home. And when I'll come back I'll have totally forgotten about you. Do you seriously think I'd take the time to shoot a vid for you? I never debated to convince you, but to show people that are reading us that you guys are the fanboys that despise us, I ain't.
@BernardMitochondrie That is not bending the rules of logic. Actually you are claiming against the norm without offering a shred of proof. IF YOU PROVIDE ME EVIDENCE THAT YOU SPAR, I WILL RETRACT MY STATEMENT ABOUT YOU BEING A LIAR. Until then I cannot believe you are telling the truth. In science one must PROVE a theory or concept before it is accepted. You do not just say it works because somebody tells you it does.
Who is your instructor at least? Then I can look him up online.
@slapupchrist LARPing: Makes it a game, not a martial art, not even a bad one.
Wearing outmoded clothing: Changes nothing at all, you just might look stupid.
Practicing with pretend ancient weapons: Depending on the availability of a simile in modern weapons (Tanto, etc...) changes different stuff.
I knew a kendoka who broke his opponent's forearm in the streets using a cardboard poster pipe. Learning weapons helps you using what you find to fight and improves your empty-hand techniques.
This is just a poor posing martial art it isn't even a martial art it's just acting besides that you don't need to see this video to realize it you can spar with them and you can see they are defenseless and they can not apply any of their techniques.
falanga22 4 days ago
What you saw is that Hatsumi was showing kata, instead of Mr. Chambers who was shown only a swing from shinai. These two video parts were deliberately cut from author of this video, but actually true video shows that those are two different technics. Mr. SlapupChrist or whatever is your name, I am challenge you to go to Japan and try to hit blindfolded Soke Hatsumi with shinai in any way you want, and you will see that Hatsumi can react in close distance in same way that he shows in the kata.
hostihugen 1 week ago
Dear Mr hostihugen,
You are a deluded moron who believes that Hatsumi (who is an old, unfit, con man) can do things that science says are impossible.
Go away, wise up and grow up.
slapupchrist 1 week ago
And there is timing. If you move too soon you will be caught. You have to move at the point where your attacher thinks he is certain to hit you.
Apart from your comments this clip is very good.
The distance Hatsumi chooses is evading distance. The distance the other guy chooses is engagement distance but he tries to evade (poorly). He should go against the attacker and try to get hold of the hilt to deflect the sword, or move forward and below the reach of the attacker.
GP11121 1 week ago
I can understand your comments, but maybe there is more to it than it seems.
One who is defending himself (tori) is choosing the distance. This is the main difference why Hatsumi is further... when standing against a man with a sword you would want to stay away. The other guy is walking towards the man with the sword, which is not very clever.
You can notice that Hatsumi moves his entire body while evading the blows. The other guy dodges. You cannot dodge a sword lest the cut goes sideways.
GP11121 1 week ago
hahahaha sooo true!!!
chewbacca138 2 weeks ago
Bujinkan.com makes no claims of reality, practicality, or superiority. Neither the "Grand Ultimate Fist" nor the "Ultimate Evolution of Combat".
Go look. Realize you are arguing with (low thinking) students, not Hatsumi san.
Bujinkan itself doesn't care what you think. Why would anybody give the truth to strangers?
greenpinkyellow 2 weeks ago
@greenpinkyellow It's the artists/Instructors that insist on "proving their art" that failed to improve themselves through life. Try being a better person, and you will be a better fight technician, whatever your training choice is.
greenpinkyellow 2 weeks ago
greenpinkyellow, what a load of crap you do talk.
slapupchrist 2 weeks ago
I must say, i am a Muay Thai practitioner, however have found myself curious to many Japanese martial arts. While researching about the Bujinkan organisation, it becomes clear that not everything fits perfectly in the puzzle. On the other hand, some sources claim that Hatsumi's teacher made it all up, however, i find it hard that one man can make up 9 different Ryu, or martial art systems. I am on the fence, but i think it is wrong that they do not enter competitions to test their mettle.
daaskapital1 2 weeks ago
I will say I despise that the majority of Bujers believe the Buj is the ONLY combat art left. What about FMA? Relatively unchanged bc it STILL works. I trained Buj for a long time but ALWAYS crosstrained in BJJ judo FMA and more. I aint aftmraid to try new things or think outside the cultish mindset most Bujers seem to have for some reason....
drizzt777 4 weeks ago
people like you slapupchrist make me sad..... the bujinkan is one of the most truly living arts left in this world... its not about rank or hand to hand skills.. its the way of life.. something you obviously missed....
fitnessronin 1 month ago
It's all about 'the way of life', is it fitnessronin?
LOL!!!
So, let me get this straight: Bujinkan ninjer LARPers spend hours every week pretending to lock, throw, strike and choke one another so as to learn a 'way of life'...
Listen, you cliched Japanophile, the Bujinkan is a fake so-called martial art that neither teaches self defence nor bona fide koryu.
Get off Hatsumi's cock, you simpleton.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
I would agree with the poster of this video it is roleplay. However the techniques practiced in the majority of martial arts when performed in a real life context, do not look slick or cool. its function over form HIYAAAAHH
paulcassoni 1 month ago
paulcassoni, what is your point?
The purpose of this video is to show how ridiculous Bujinkan training is EVEN WHEN DONE BY THE 'GRANDMASTER' HIMSELF.
So, wouldn't you say it makes more sense to practice martial arts techniques in such a way that you actually learn how to apply them AGAINST RESISTANCE?
Not every martial art is a LARP-fest, mate.
The Bujinkan is one of the most unrealistic, unrealistic load of bollocks ever marketed.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
Bujinkanes de mierda, si van a jugar a los ninja por lo menos acepten que no lo son. Tras de que su "Taijutsu" es pura mierda y mas parece un ballet que un arte marcial, y encima de todo cobrando bien caro diciendo que es "de calidad". Si quieren seguir jugando háganlo pero al menos acepten que no son ninjas, ni siquiera artistas marcials malditos payasos de circo.
trollingloverfull 1 month ago
Jajajajaj Bujinkan del culo... fuí parte de ellos por varios años y sólo son una farsa, ojalá se le acabe el cuentico a ese viejo cacorro pseudo ninja.
trollingloverfull 1 month ago
trollingloverfull, please post comments in English or don't post comments at all.
Thanks.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
@slapupchrist Ok ok I'll post comments in english. What I said is that I was part of Bujinfake for 4 years and they are only that, a fake. I hope it gets finished soon because they are ashaming martial arts.
trollingloverfull 1 month ago
Well, trollingloverfull, one of the original Bujinkan LARPers, Oguri, died on the 17th of this month.
Hatsumi can't last much longer, and the others are getting old too.
Once Hatsumi and all the Japanese shihan are dead, the Bujinkan will be a fragmented Westernised cult with even less crdibility than it has now; at that point, aikido will be the most ridiculous Japan-based martial art.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
@slapupchrist Well let's just hope he doesn't put another "Soke" before his death. By the way, why you consider aikido to be ridiculous?? I don't practice it but I just feel curious to know.
trollingloverfull 1 month ago
It's not hatsumi's fault he has better distincing and timeing
Bujinskate 1 month ago
Bujinskate, you're banned for two reasons:
1. Your comment shows a complete lack of understanding what this video is showing.
2. Your username is utterly moronic.
Go away, you loser.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
lol, the question should be, why does the "non bujinkan guy" stand so close to the guy with the sword? not the other way around.
bonsaimountain 1 month ago
bonsaimountain, putting aside the poor showing by the non-Bujinkan guy, what do you think of the demonstration by Hatsumi and his LARPing uke?
Please give an intelligent answer.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
@slapupchrist It is quite obvious that he doesn't even try to hit Hatsumi, he's throwing himself off balance, which makes it really easy for Hatsumi to disarm him. Seems that when he has the "Non-Bujinkan" guy in front of him, he suddenly remembers how to strike, I give you that. I am not a bujinkan practitioner, I train Inosanto Kali, Silat and Jun Fan. Just wondering how effective bujinkan would be in a street fight, I mean with most moves being telegraphic and stances quite folkloric.
bonsaimountain 1 month ago
Thank you for your intelligent answer, bonsaimountain.
Here it is in a nutshell:
1 Hatsumi doesn't do anything effective; he merely relies on the guy with the shinai to not hit him and take a dive.
2 The guy with the shinai purposely stands miles from Hatsumi, but stands close to the non-Bujinkan guy.
3 The non-Bujinkan guy tries to evade, which is impossible.
4 Hatsumi couldn't evade the shinai if it was swung properly from a realistic distance.
The Bujinkan is a con.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
bonsaimountain, the Bujinkan would not be effective in a street fight because all that the Bujinkan consists of is slow motion role playing, and fanciful long-winded moves that rely on the opponent standing still and letting the technique happen.
There is absolutely no evidence of Bujinkan training against resistance; this is because you can't make a standing wrist lock work on someone who moves their feet. Likewise, no one in real life throws slow lunge punches on the street.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
As Official Representative for Bujinkan Fake Arts Corp International, I can confirm that our entire organization is afraid of a YouTube account called slapupchrist. We refuse to furnish slapupchrist with proof of effectiveness because we admit we are fake. Please go learn a real art, not Bujinkan. We suck and slapupchrist really does know everything. Everything.
greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
greenpinkyellow, it is clear that you know very little because, rather than provide evidence of realistic Bujinkan training, you resort to sarcasm; that's what ninjer enthusiasts do when they have nothing of substance to offer.
Yet another LARPer talks-up the Buj, but offers nothing of substance.
Ninjers... clueless.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@slapupchrist As Official Representative for Bujinkan Fake Arts Corp International, I can confirm that our entire organization is afraid of a YouTube account called slapupchrist. We refuse to furnish slapupchrist with proof of effectiveness because we admit we are fake. Please go learn a real art, not Bujinkan. We suck and slapupchrist really does know everything. Everything.
greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
greenpinkyellow, you'd do better to tell your relatives that the Bujinkan is a commercial enterprise that was invented by a man named Hatsumi, and that there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF VIDEO EVIDENCE to prove that it is anything other than a laughable collection of fanciful theories.
THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BUJINKAN THAT WOULD QUALIFY IT AS BEING A REENACTMENT OF ANYTHING TO DO WITH HISTORY; THE BUJINKAN IS MADE-UP OF TOTALLY UNPROVEN, UNREALISTIC BOLLOCKS.
Grow up.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
What a load of absolute rubbish, greenpinkyellow; 'actual Bujinkan'??? This IS actual Bujinkan!!!
The only think Bujinkan has EVER been is Hatsumi and his cult members LARPing in the name of martial arts.
slapupchrist 1 month ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
The second guy was standing too close, but that doesnt excuse the fact that the assailant clearly wasnt trying to hit hatsumi. Iv seen tons of hatsumi vids and notice the same thing in everyone of them. His opponents dont actually try to hurt him or resist at all, they just take a dive.
KrimzonKnight01 2 months ago
bujinkunt is a mcdojo chain.... its bullshit most people dont know what they are talking about... they see the world as they want to not as it is..accept the fact that it looks pretty but its all bullshit
CrimsonGetsu 2 months ago 2
We should actualy thank this guy for filtering all the problematic guys from our dojos lol
kaylercj 2 months ago
I see this video is from 2009 , and once again the Bujinkan offers no videos to disput it. says volumes....
jamesinct 2 months ago
Alright. As simply as possible, When you swing a katana, Or any equivilant Japanese sword, you aren't swinging it like a club, (example two) It is a kind of sliding motion designed to push or pull the edge of the blade (which is what the swords actually use, rather than weight) Across and therefore through the target.(example one) Speaking from an actual combat point of view, The demonstration by Hatsumi is between two skilled practioners. Full speed always looks different. Ever used a sword?
Kaqmijn 2 months ago
I wouldnt do bujinkan for self def, but im sure there are som good instructors & practitioners wh know how to fight.
mrdubcrazy 3 months ago
Its called a demonstration you dumbass.
hazza3 3 months ago 2
A demonstration of what, hazza3?
slapupchrist 3 months ago
@slapupchrist A demonstration of how fool was the non-bujinkan guy to walk straight to an armed opponent. If I were in his place I would try to be away enough, like Hatsumi did.
edelric422 3 months ago
if u notice, the non-bujinkan guy is moving toward the sword...i would think that Hatsumi Sensei is smart enough to stand far away from the sword so he doesn't get cut, and as u can see, he does keep his distance...as for the non-bujinkan guy, he starts off like arms length from the sword which isn't smart and of course he's going to get hit...so before u try to slander Bujinkan Ninjutsu watch the video closely, ok?
Chimaster7 3 months ago
same as most martial arts its a cash cow for the founders, but this is not to say the style or techniques dont work as with all martial arts the combat effectivness is more to do with the person using it rather than the system itself......as the saying goes its not the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog that counts
baldycheese 3 months ago
P.D: Sorry for my bad english :P. I'm from Colombia.
edelric422 3 months ago
The bujinkan "renegades" and opponents only rely in doubts to criticize the Bujinkan. Neither them have proofs against Hatsumi and the Bujinkan.
edelric422 3 months ago
Besides, maybe it's true that Hatsumi has no material proofs to support his claims, but neither his opponents have any proof that says he is no Soke. Not everything is on books and documents. And Bujinkan Taijutsu DOES WORK. My instructor once defended himself from a thief armed with a revolver, the incident was broadcasted in the news through all the country.
edelric422 3 months ago
@edelric422 you say not everything is in books and documents,. did you know that Hatsumi has never let his documents be authenticated? That is usually the maneuver of a con,. The Japanese are all about their paperwork.
Hatusmi is a hoax because he will not prove himself. The burden of proof lies in those who make the claim, and he claims to be soke of a million arts or whatever, and so far he cannot provide any evidence before Toda who himself was pretty much proven a liar. screw ninjas.
bizitch71717 3 months ago
This only proves that the non-Bujinkan has not much common sense. If I were in his place I wouldn't try to get so close to the shinai guy. The non-Bujinkan was the one walking straight to an armed opponent.
edelric422 3 months ago
I´m from bujinkan, and I noticed this when I first saw the show its in.
When I get my 1st or 2nd dan I will teach bujinkan the way a combat system is suposed to be taught! Let me tell ya right now that I dont buy everything Maasaki hatsumi says or does. I became disilusioned years ago!
CBoavida 3 months ago
CBoavida, what I would like to know is this:
When you say you'll "teach bujinkan the way a combat system is suposed to be taught", what exactly will you be teaching?
When you say that you "dont buy everything Maasaki hatsumi says or does", then how can you say you are a Bujinkan practitioner?
Hatsumi IS THE BUJINKAN; he's it, mate. What Hatsumi says or does IS THE BUJINKAN; he invented it. If you disagree with Hatsumi, you disagree with the Bujinkan, and you should go and do something else.
slapupchrist 3 months ago 5
@slapupchrist Maybe you´re right, but for practical reasons for now its best for me to keep being associated with the Bujinkan, Later, maybe I´ll train with other federations, but I need a valid instructor degree to teach my way. I will not invent an association or anything, I just want to put intensity, realism and quality testing, some objectivity in graduations. I dont think I am a "heretic" for that.
CBoavida 3 months ago
CBoavida,
Firstly, there is no 'valid instructor degree' in a Bujinkan second dan! Are you serious??? LOL!!! The Bujinkan is NOT RECOGNISED OUTSIDE OF HATSUMI'S CULT.
Secondly, you haven't described exactly what you will be teaching. You say you want to "put intensity, realism and quality testing, some objectivity in graduations."
Er... what will you be 'quality testing'? Standing wrist locks? Lunge punches? Extended finger strikes? Grabbing a punch in mid-flight?
Please explain.
slapupchrist 3 months ago
@slapupchrist. You really are persistent :-) I cant for practical reasons explain the details of what
i intend to do, partly because I am still figuring it out. I still have to do a lot trial and error and to talk to more experienced bujinkan "renegades". To give you an example, some wrist grab tecniques were designed to be used against weapon atacks,not exactly modern day punches.If you put everithing in context and cut out the bulshit a lot of what is taught today actually makes sense!
CBoavida 3 months ago
@CBoavida But I will probably change organizations later on, maybe the Japan Ninjutsu Federation, or become independant I dont know. I dont mind starting over from a" legitimate" organization, but for now I´ll work on perfecting my own skills, learning from other systems, discussing details from more knowlegeable people, triming the fat...
I´m not a kid anymore and has I get older I can see thru a lot of the politics and bullshit.
What´s important is that you keep inproving and keep training
CBoavida 3 months ago
@CBoavida Hatsumi sensei discovered the money tree and is milking it for all it is worth, I dont blame him.
OMFGHUGEWOLF 3 months ago in playlist OMFGHUGEWOLF's favorites
@OMFGHUGEWOLF Of course, I dont exactly blame him too, but there should be standards, and objectivity. Some kind of quality control. And randori should be done regularly.How can you learn combat without actually doing combat!
CBoavida 3 months ago
recoveringangels, you say "maybe the role playing goes on."
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE look at EVERY official video/DVD, and EVERY clip on You Tube, and EVERY video/DVD by Bujinkan teachers, and tell me if you see anything other than plain LARPing.
Ninjers... absolute LARPers to a man.
slapupchrist 4 months ago
Every bujinkan teacher is free to teach it his way. This includes randori at many schools, but a lot of them want to teach the principle and not prepare a student for a contest or something like that. It really depends on the student which style of learning a martial art ist the best for him/her. You might not find this very attractive, but not everyone is like you. Remember that.
qll4mail 4 months ago
qll4mail, I've been listening to people like you for years and years; you make statements that are so cliched that it's positively nausea-inducing.
Lets start with a simple one, shall we?
You say "Every bujinkan teacher is free to teach it his way."
Please tell us all what you mean by 'it'. What, exactly, are Bujinkan teachers free to teach 'their own way'? What is this thing that they teach? Describe it. Define it. I challenge you.
slapupchrist 4 months ago
@slapupchrist Principles and techniques that have proven themselves, e.g. in other martial arts (because some bujinkan schools have common roots with them). Some teachers change them to reflect modern fighting, some don't. Take Stephen Hayes as an example for someone who changed Bujinkan to reflect modern combat (I've just seen videos about his To-Shin-Do, so don't take my word on it). You may believe what you want... neither I nor anybody else have to proove anything to you or justify the art
qll4mail 4 months ago
Very interesting that there is always someone who is really inpatient and gets very angry at something he does not really understand. Mostly these people just post an angry comment and not a whole video. Hatsumi demonstrates the principle of moving his feet and not the upper body which makes the movement very foreseeable. Of course the student won't embarass Hatsumi with actually hitting him. The true value of this lies in the principles and techniques that Hatsumi teaches.
qll4mail 4 months ago
qll4mail, don't you think the principle of 'moving your feet' could be demonstrated in a realistic and practical way?
Please answer the following question: WHY DOES HATSUMI CHOOSE TO DEMONSTRATE ALL THE 'PRINCIPLES' OF BUJINKAN TAIJUTSU BY USING TOTALLY UNREALISTIC SCENARIOS AND REACTIONS TO TECHNIQUES?
I look forward to your reply.
slapupchrist 4 months ago
@slapupchrist I wonder what you have seen from Hatsumi? Just YouTube videos where everybody wanted to look nice for the camera or did you really participate in a real Dojo-Training? I would never dare to judge somebody if I did not met him.
Anyways you will not reply to my real arguments but ask some suggestive question which does not really sense... again: Think whatever you want, but I have found a martial art that is more intelligent than mindlessly hitting each other without understanding
qll4mail 2 months ago 2
qll4mail, read the bio on my channel; maybe that will give you an idea of how I formed my opinions.
slapupchrist 2 months ago
@slapupchrist Interesting story you have got there and you seem to be someone who desperately wants to learn the "best" self defence system. I believe that bujinkan was never the right thing for you to do. If I have followed your argumentation correctly you would say that Aikido is pure LARPing,too (because it isnt practiced against resisting opponents). I will not argue over the topic with someone who claims to have more experience than me so I'll have to learn about "the truth" "the hard way".
qll4mail 2 months ago 4
Good luck with the time you waste training in the Bujinkan, qll4mail; I hope you wake up soon.
As for aikido, you are spot on: I consider aikido to be absolute LARPing bollocks. Aikido is where Hatsumi got some of his most ridiculous LARPing ideas from.
slapupchrist 2 months ago
@recoveringangels no, you are right, as you imply, I was wrong for saying that. He is not a dummy. He was trying to replicate what Hatsumi did. Just like everyone else. Maybe Hatsumi is a fraud, maybe he isnt. Never trained with him. I think slapupchrist has better experience with that, and has more of a right to his opinion than those that havent trained IMO. But I dont think this video proves anything again IMO.
nin9lives 4 months ago 2
The non bujinkan guy is a dummy for moving closer to the sword. With knives or swords, get away from the knife or sword right? Duh, because it has a limited range of attack. Doesnt take a ninja or bujinkaner to know that, called common sense
nin9lives 4 months ago
nin9lives, are you really so moronic that you cannot see the reason for this video? It's not about the non-Bujinkan guy; it's about the ludicrous play-acting by the Bujinkan guy with the shinai, the ridiculous distance that he initiates his 'cut' from, and the ineffective load of crap that Hatsumi does when his cult disciple just stands there and waits for his cue to take a dive.
Wake up and grow up, you ninjer loser.
slapupchrist 4 months ago 2
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nin9lives 4 months ago
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nin9lives 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@slapupchrist Im not a ninjer or ninja or whatever, ya, like you, I can admit at one point I was a wannabe. I used to train in bujinkan, havent in a long time. Whether I am a moron or not, I really dont think thats your place to judge. Doesnt seem like you are the brightest either if you were training and spending tons of money on what you claim to be a fraud. Bottom line is, the "nonbujinkaner" shouldnt have walked up to a sword and your video proves nothing as a result.
nin9lives 4 months ago
Dude, calm the fuck down. Insulting everyone who offends you is definitely not the ninja way. That's definitely a samurai thing.
tyk6330 5 months ago
tyk6330, comment intelligently on the video unless you are a moron.
slapupchrist 5 months ago
In fights involving katanas, the two opponents would try to stay out of the reach of the weapon. The second guy just kept trying to simply walk toward the armed one and dodge his hits. Thing is, you don't walk toward someone with a sword.
BiBy360 6 months ago 8
Oh, I see, BiBy360! Thanks so much for explaining that to us all. We were all way too stupid to realise that you shouldn't walk toward a guy wielding a sword. No wonder I got my arms and legs chopped-off, the other day. Silly me; I shouldn't have walked toward that guy with the katana. Tut, tut. Silly me.
Um... by the way, have you considered that it is also a stupid idea to swing a sword at someone if they're standing half a mile away from you? Have you considered the idea of getting closer?
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@BiBy360 In a fight with any sword, only a complete noob would make his cuts so deep and over extended. Anyone can dodge a sword when the attacker does that, so in this case, either the demo is BS or the uke is doing Hatsumi a disservice by cutting badly.
billtrumpler 2 months ago
billtrumpler, the uke is PURPOSELY cutting badly so-as to do Hatsumi a SERVICE.
There is nothing new, here; this kind of bullshit happens every time any traditional martial arts cult demonstrates.
There are plenty of Hatsumi-supporters who try to justify this nonsense by pointing out how crap the non-Bujinkan guy is.
The purpose of this video, however, is to show the con that is perpetrated by Hatsumi and his cronies every time they demonstrate.
Ninjers... WAKE UP!
slapupchrist 2 months ago
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greenpinkyellow 1 month ago
cuz the non Bujijnkan guy is not gettong farther from sword....
alimpije33 6 months ago 2
ninjas definitely fail at life.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 Good thing ninjas don't exist anymore.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago
Why are you so angry?
With all respect, solving your own problems will make you more capable off helping others :)
Tienkou111 6 months ago
Tienkou111, why are you commenting here if you can't lend to the discussion with an intelligent and insightful view on the content of the video?
Proclaiming the progenitor of the video as being someone with problems is neither a mature offering, nor a helpful addition to what has already been said on this forum.
If you manage to come-up with something more worthwhile to say, then please do comment again. Otherwise, please relegate your cliched lines to a less grown-up audience.
Thanks.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
This video only proves the non bujinkan guy is too fucking close to a sword, cause he don't know shit.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago 15
So, MrLeicamaster, you can't see that it proves what a bunch of play actors the Bujinkan are?
Goodness me! You are unbelievably stupid.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist I've trained in Bujinkan and no one school is alike. You must be a tool. Come to my class and I'll show what I can do with this obviously useless Martial Art.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago
MrLeicamaster, rather than extending an invitation that you know I wont accept (as if I'm about to travel to a dojo to settle an argument on You Tube), how about you upload a video of your dojo TRAINING BUJINKAN TECHNIQUES AGAINST FULL RESISTANCE?
There are thousands of Bujinkan videos out there, why don't you make history, and show us the first video of TRAINING BUJINKAN TECHNIQUES AGAINST FULL RESISTANCE?
I'm not holding my breath...
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist I don't make videos sorry. I might be able to find you schools who have different training methods within Bujinkan. Same techniques, but different training methods. That's what this really comes down to anyway. The techniques are sound, it's just the training methods you seem to have a problem with.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago
There's more to the Bujinkan con that the training methods, MrLeicamaster.
I suggest you have a think about the techniques being trained: standing wrist locks, lunge punches, strikes to the punching arm/hand, catching a punch, etc, etc. It would matter how you trained this kind of nonsense; it's still NONSENSE.
The Bujinkan is based on jujutsu; some of the techniques are sound, and others are absolute rubbish.
If you had an open mind my level of experience, you'd agree.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist standing wrist locks, lunge punches, strikes to the punching arm/hand, catching a punch, etc, etc. are non-sense? Why because you can't do them? Ok catching a punch is something that will probably never happen, but you don't understand the basic principles you learn when being taught these techniques because you haven't trained them. I have put people in wrist locks with full resistance. You don't understand and you'll never understand.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago
@slapupchrist Have you trained BJJ? Ok you know how you drill an armbar over and over until you get to spar and sometimes you can get an armbar and sometimes you can't, depending on your partner? So you might go for an armbar and you fail so you go for something else or use it to set up for something else? Some thing dude. You just don't know what you're looking at cause you don't know how to make it work. If it makes you feel better to poopoo someone else's Martial Art than go ahead.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago
@slapupchrist You don't know enough to comment.
MrLeicamaster 6 months ago
The first thing i Notice is: Hatsumi stands still, while the other guy moves forward. The attacker goes offensive against Hatsumi and defensive against the non-bujinkan guy. I am almost certain we would see another reaction then.
mcfoxax 6 months ago
Well Well ..fat slapper is still around ..grunting behind his computer ..oink oink !!.. Dont you ever get tired of going over the same shit over and over .. ..whats the secret dude ..there is no secret..:)..
Illium75 6 months ago
great video, im sure you ruffled a lot of 15th degree bb feathers , lmao
jamesinct 6 months ago
Answer is simple. You just stay away from Hatsumi instinctively because the man feels dangerous. And Hatsumi makes the right distance himself anyways. And if he could not for geographical reasons, he wouldn't avoid the sword the same way. And you're just looking at tiny details without wondering the why of the details. Reverse thing of what science is about.
BernardMitochondrie 7 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie dude this is a complete LARP. Hatsumi is a fraud. you boojers come in and think we know nothing, but the reality is you boojers are LARPers and follow that old coot, without second guessing him. and that is metally retarded
bizitch71717 7 months ago
@bizitch71717 Good. Why don't you tell us your background in martial arts, mister? Because before being a "boojer", I actually studied other martial arts. I bet with such an affirmative tone you have at least 5 years experience in at least one martial art. Because if you don't I don't know if confidence in your words would be well-placed.
BernardMitochondrie 7 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie i can shoot a pistol, which is more dangerous than anything in the booj, or a shotgun which is more dangerous than anything in the booj. I have my purple belt in BJJ and I have been in several scuffs in my life. I have participated in the booj. it is crap compared to other arts. certain maneuvers in isolation are good, however, there is not a boojer I have met that has the ability to set any of these techniques up, using boojinkan martial arts
bizitch71717 7 months ago
@bizitch71717 BJJ is quite nice, and fairly efficient as long as the opponent decides for no reason not to hit you in the groin. It is very good combined with a sparring system if you do MMA.
I believe purple belt is obtained after 2 to 4 years of work depending on your natural skill and dedication.
I personnally studied martial arts a total of 12 years, and have been in "scuffs" alright.
Bujinkan training is slow and technical, it does not make it unneficient.
BernardMitochondrie 7 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie when adrenaline is rushing you don't even feel hits, including those to the groin. I've had my groin hit, eyes gouged at, people try to break my fingers. It means shit if you don't know how to apply them properly. I've been in BJJ for 8 years, more off than on, but have studied many different concepts relating to combat. Bujinkan training is inefficient. it does not prepare you for a full out confrontation.
bizitch71717 7 months ago
@bizitch71717 Things being shady does not mean they are wrong. There's few eveidence about most historical fighters. Musashi's story is blurry too... If I'm correct, there's also blurry zones in the history of BJJ.
Adrenaline has this effect. However, a powerful shot a Sui Getsu (Solar Plexus) puts you down, whatever the circumpstances. Applying force to joints and sensitive spots is very important in martial arts, and central in BJJ, which is only about joint locks. Stop contradicting yourself.
BernardMitochondrie 7 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, if 'things being shady does not mean they are wrong', then how do you feel about stories of alien abductions, fairies at the bottom of the garden, and the parting of the red sea by Moses, Nathan and God the Father?
Please give the rational people a break, you deluded ninjer wannabe; some of us aren't interested in believing stories told to us by black pajama-clad internet warriors.
Ninjers... fucking pathetic.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist What I meant is the fact that you can't ask for absolute proof of historical events... Having sufficient info is eventually... Sufficient. Please prove me that Mozart did write his pieces. You can't. You can say it's very likely because sufficient documents show that. But in the end, he might have been a con and had a genius locked in his basement...
I don't wear pyjamas at night. And I don't like being called a "ninjer". I did more martial arts than you did, kid.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, for your information, there hundreds of scores by Mozart in his own hand. There are many contemporary accounts of Mozart composing and performing works.
What you are referring to is better illustrated by the fact that there is not a single piece of poetry or prose in Shakespeare's hand. In that case, I agree that Shakespeare is not proven to be the author of the plays and sonnets.
Similarly, there is absolutely no contemporary writings to prove Takamatsu ever was a ninja.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, you betray your classic cliched ninjer wannabe rationale by asserting that you 'did more martial arts' than I ever did. what do you base that claim on? Have you been watching my training since I was a child???
Listen, you idiot, why the hell can't you just stick to facts and figures, instead of making unfounded claims to support your deluded views?
If you're going to say that Takamatsu was a deadly warrior, provide the evidence rather than suggest I challenge a dojo. LOL!
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist You know what, let's assume Takamatsu's schools are not ninpo. It's just obscure schools. And he never went to mongolia. And so on and so forth. Well look at all the fucks I give!
I like the martial art, I find it interesting in many ways and I am eager to learn more about it. That's all. I don't want to be a Ninja. I am not one. I am a Bujinkan Tsukai. Now, again, please go ahead and show us your curriculum vitae. Hope it's bigger than bizitch's.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@slapupchrist dude, this guy is relentless lol, he's a complete idiot.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
Still they keep coming, bizitch71717. Where does Hatsumi get all these losers from? They just parrot the same old cliches over and over again:
"If you think Bujinkan is b/s, then challenge a dojo"
"Takamatsu was a real life ninjer"
"You were obviously kicked out of the Buj"
"We don't compete because we're too deadly"
"Hatsumi could kick your arse"
"You've never done martial arts in your life"
... etc, etc...
Ninjers... sooooooo predictable.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist it's very hard to be civilized with these people. I just want to smack him.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bizitch71717
"dude, this guy is relentless lol, he's a complete idiot." ==> Try to be civilized.
"it's very hard to be civilized with these people. I just want to smack him." ==> If you REALLY can't, why don't you do try to smack me? Instead of priding around behind your computer thinking you're so bad-ass, you should train and get a better belt. 8 years for purple, I call Bullshit on that.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@slapupchrist "If you think Bujinkan is b/s, then challenge a dojo" ==> You're the ones asking for proof. Provide yours.
"Takamatsu was a real life ninjer" ==> He was a warrior of great skill. What's the relevance with "ninjers"?
"You were obviously kicked out of the Buj" ==> Never said that. You probably left it because it's important for most people to leave and criticize their first MA. I did it.
"We don't compete because we're too deadly" ==> You want a fight? Come around!
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, the reason sceptics like me ask for proof is because claims are being made that are unfounded.
People like bizitch and I aren't claiming to know secret techniques, thousand-year-old traditions, battle-tested deadliness, etc. We don't talk about the greatness of a warrior that we really know nothing truthful about.
You, son, need to take off the blinkers. You're parroting religious-style clap trap that you have no proof for.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, you say Takamatsu was a 'warrior of great skill'. That's a claim. Where's the evidence? Where's the historical proof?
Please try to understand, son: when you and your ninpo/ninjer buddies try to convince intelligent people that Takamatsu was a great warrior, or that THE BUJINKAN SPARS IN TRAINING, the onus is on you to show proof.
Have you heard of King Arthur? Do you believe the stories of Camelot? Is it in the history books?
Wake up, you fool.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
Okay, Bernard, you need to just sit up, pay attention, and cooperate or I'll dismiss you as being yet another moron who's incapable/unwilling when it comes to intelligently discussing this subject.
Although it may come as a blow to your ego, the examples I gave in quotation marks weren't solely by you; you're just one of many that people like bizitch and I have been laughing at for years.
Asking us to challenge a dojo is the NUMBER ONE most cliched response to criticism of the Buj.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist It's funny, because that is always the number one boojer response. LOL!!!!!! Ninjers are dumbasses.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
"Hatsumi could kick your arse" ==> Never said that. I don't know. He's getting kinda old, he saiys it himself.
"You've never done martial arts in your life" ==> Again, I never said that. I said I did more though. And more seriously. I stand by my position with only as proof your obvious misunderstanding of bujinkan's teachings.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
Listen, Bernard. You have claimed:
1. You have done more martial arts than I.
2. Takamatsu is a great warrior.
3. The Bujinkan spars in training.
Please provide proof for the above or you will be dismissed, son.
Think about it, young man: NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO DO WHAT NO BUJINKAN NINJER HAS EVER DONE... MAKE MORE THAN UNFOUNDED CLAIMS.
I wont hold my breath...
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist I believe that if you had done enough MA's, you would be a little less pretentious. When I was young, I was like you. I hated chinese MAs. I tried them and it seemed weak and nonsense to me. Until the day I got owned by a Kung Fu master. Then I realized it was just more about the warrior than the technique. Some people are made for this, some for that. There's no such thing as a bullshit MA, except the ones that just say "throw chi arrows though your mouth and opponent will die".
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
Oh, that's right, BernardMitochondrie, I forgot the other main cliche: "There are no bad martial arts, just bad martial artists".
Really, son, you just so obviously betray your relative immaturity in this subject; once you open your eyes, and get back to basic logic, you can see that there are very simple things that determine if a martial art is worth bothering with or not. LARPing, wearing outmoded clothing, practicing with pretend ancient weapons, etc = bad martial art.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist I am tailored for a specific kind of MA. My hits are not very sting, but quite precise. So I would sock at boxing, but Bujinkan is ok. I resist hits well, but I am not strong, so grappling is not my specialty. Et caetera. Bujinkan is well tailored for me. I take its teachings, I implement them in my fighting style. I learn its weaknesses though sparring with friends and try to avoid them or find a parade. This is called Martial arts. If you had done enough, you'd know that.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@slapupchrist Saying Takamatsu was a great warrior could be just like saying that "Leonardo Da Vinci was a great painter". It's admitted and it's in history books. But man, it is true, is proficient in lying, so it might be a big-ass lie. Let's assume it is. Now let's look at videos of Takamatsu showing his mastery of weapons. To the trained eye, it is obvious that he has a control over his weapon that neither I or you have achieved.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
Absolute bullshit, BernardMitochondrie. There is not one video I have ever seen of Takamatsu (I think I've seen all the official ones) that shows anything other than an old man spinning a bo or messing around with a boken.
Again PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I CAN SEE TAKAMATSU MASTERFULLY WIELDING A WEAPON FAR IN ADVANCE OF WHAT YOU OR I COULD DO...
You make these far-out claims, so back them up.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist If you have no such trained eye, practice Bojutsu or whatever for 5 years or such. Then look again and watch. This is years and years of dedicated work. If you say it's not against a resisting opponent, and it's just kata, well, you would be right, and that would be irrelevant. Before swimming ashore, you master the swimming pool. Same here.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@slapupchrist As for the bujinkan sparring, well, I do bujinkan, and I hereby testify that I do spar in my dojo. For proof, I could upload a video, but I have no camera, and way more interesting things to do in my dojo than shooting a video for you.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie Wow, I should have read all your stupid posts firsts. You just happen to be unable to upload it. I'm sure you have friends who have cameras, but of course you can't borrow one. Go figure. You are a loser LARPer.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, do you seriously think we haven't all heard the 'I don't have a camera' excuse before???
LOL!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha!!! Mate, you are absolutely hopeless!
DO YOU OWN A MOBILE PHONE? IF YOU DO, DOES IT HAVE A CAMERA? CAN YOU SPARE A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR LIFE UPLOADING A VIDEO FROM YOUR MOBILE PHONE SHOWING YOUR BUJINKAN SPARRING SESSIONS?
Think of it this way, son: instead of spending time arguing with me, you could upload a video of your Buj dojo sparring. What do you say?
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist Again, if you want to be a smart-ass, go challenge a dojo. And my name ain't Bernard. It's a nickname.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie your defending of the lie is proof of your own delusion. BJJ's history is not shady, it came from judo. that's pretty much the only story. obviously you've never participated in BJJ, or you might know that. plus there's much more to BJJ than just joint locks. you are ignorant.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 The whole fact that grappling techniques exist in the first place is the existence of joint locks. If they did not exist, the strongest and most heavy would win all the time.
If I had the time to, I'd accept any challenge from you just to see how great must be a man of such confidence.
If you say that you have to use competition to make a proper martial art, you criticize also Krav Maga, Systema... If you do, please explain why special forces worldwide use them.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie joint locks are a part of BJJ, they are not the only thing. there are a reason we learn sweeps, takedowns, fighting from our back, and also joint locks. there's more than one useful thing you can learn in BJJ. in the booj, that is not the guarantee. everything is set up horribly. Krav maga is ok, because there are many practitioners who spar, systema sucks. I hate soft arts, because they give a sense of false satisfaction.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 So, you consider Krav Maga, Systema and Bujinkan to be "soft arts". As opposite to BJJ. Man, I'm laughing so hard right now.
Anyways, if you call "sparing" trying to counter techniques and play around trying to own the opponent using counter technique over counter technique, and never defining Tori and Uke, well, we do that in Bujinkan. Sorry if it destroys your whole argumentation.
Along with having a whole channel set-up just to hate bujinkan, I think you're not very credible.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie No, krav maga is both a soft and hard art. They have practitioners who spar. People in systema and the booj DO NOT SPAR!!!! This is fact. And sparring isn't just counter techniques. There are attacks, defenses, and training against a RESISTING opponent. Resistance training is not a part of the boojer curriculum. All online booj I've seen has no resistance. In all the classes I've been in, no resistance. And the sensei was a bully.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 You make a lot of claims. In my dojo of bujinkan, we spar. Period. This is factual as shit: I was there. When you learn a technique, there are several steps to it. First you do the technique against a compliant opponent. Then against a resisting opponent, that will only comply because of pain or lack of force. Then against a fighting opponent, who will try everything possible to avoid being beaten, including kicking your ass. That's how it's done.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie You are lying. You do not spar. Don't patronize me, I've been training for years. And I've been busting ninjer ass for a long time now. 99.9% of boojer dojos do not spar. Record it and upload it, otherwise it does not exist. Your word is not good enough. and now you'll probably say, that your sensei won't let you record in the dojo. Hmm. i wonder what's coming next.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 Even if I did record anything, you'd find a way to say it was set-up. You just can't accept that your knowledge of the world is not enough to comprehend everything in it. I kinda understand that you had bad experiences with Bujinkan given you live in the US. There are a lot of cons in the Bujinkan there. You should not make it a general point, though. Now, upload a video where you bust "ninjer" ass... Otherwise does not exist. And I'll say it was set up. It'll be constructive.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie even if I thought your sparring was shitty, I would give you props for sparring. But you do not spar, you LARP. Sparring is completely discouraged throughout the booj. Either prove otherwise or you are lying.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 I did LARP once, I found the murderer. Colonel Mustard it was. Do you seriously think after 10 years of various martial arts with great sensei's, I would just go "Fuck it, let's all play around and learn nothing in a dojo for hours a week"? Seriously?
"Sparring is completely discouraged throughout the booj" ==> Why would it be? Seriously? Why would any martial art decide to discourage people from having fun? This theory is totally nonsense, isn't it?
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
No, Bernard, not only is this NOT nonsense, it also ISN'T a theory; it's a fact that is proven by all the available evidence.
I was in the Bujinkan for ten years. Read my channel. I say the Buj discourages sparring. It definitely does.
Once again, for the twentieth time, show us evidence that the Bujinkan spars. Because from my experience, and EVERY VIDEO AVAILABLE, there is absolutely not a hint of training against realistic resistance.
You're so naive, insofar as this debate is concerned.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist Again, videos are technique demonstrations. And I did read your channel. You did Bujinkan in one dojo and a few seminars. Seminars are not meant for sparring. Your dojo, well, I don't know it.
Again, I know of no teacher that discourages sparring. I see no point in discouraging sparring. And I know what sparring means. And I know what resistance means. Compliance is only used among beginners to a new technique, at least in my dojo. The only compliant MA I know of is Aikido.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, this is your last chance before being banned:
Quit giving us all your anecdotal bullshit, and upload a video of Bujinkan sparring.
I hereby state the following: THERE IS NO SPARRING IN ANY OFFICIAL BUJINKAN DOJO. HATSUMI HAS NEVER SPARRED WHEN TEACHING BUJINKAN, AND HE'S NEVER DEMONSTRATED AGAINST RESISTANCE.
If you cannot prove me wrong by showing me where this mythical Bujinkan resistance training exists, you're banned.
Stop wasting our time, you moron.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist Keikogis are worn in every japanese martial arts. Hatsumi may LARP, but not in his dojo. And the ancient weapons are not "pretend". As I said, changes nothing.
You state a lot of things since we talk. They're all wrong. There is sparring in official dojos. You can't ban me from Youtube. I do not need to grow up. Bujinkan is not a cult. My name is not Bernard, just like yours ain't slapup.
Prove these facts before stating them. Or just accept the fact you know nothing.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, you continue to avoid the questions put to you.
You make claims about Bujinkan training against resistance, yet you cannot/will not upload a video showing this.
For your information, this has been the case with EVERY Bujinkan guy I've ever debated with.
THERE IS NO PROOF THAT BUJINKAN IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN LARPing.
You've failed to provide any proof of realistic Bujinkan training, and everyone reading this can see you've lost the argument.
Ninjers... failures.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist
slapupchrist wrote: "THERE IS NO SPARRING IN ANY OFFICIAL BUJINKAN DOJO."
Sorry for replying to such an old comment, and no disrespect intended to anyone, but the above statement is not correct. There are several dôjô here in Japan where sparring and practice against resistance is indeed a fundamental part of training. Just to mention two in the Tôkyô area: Bujinkan Nakadai Dôjô (in Shiraoka, Ôtsuka and Aoyama) and Bujinkan Tezuka Dôjô (in Tabata).
Jiraiyasamataaa 4 months ago
@slapupchrist In the end, your "fact" is backed up by your personal experience in one single dojo, and a misinterpetation of videos posted on youtube.
You wanna be rational? Well, scientific argumentation: The fact that something does not exist is rarely a fact, and extremely hard to prove.
Again, I am in holidays, so no dojo. But even if I could, I'm having so much fun seeing you guys talking nonsense on capslock that I would keep arguing with you just for laughs.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, if you have read my channel, you'd see that I've trained at many dojos.
You're a typical deceitful Bujinkan cult member who can't even honestly state what he's read about someone else.
You're last chance: if you're too scared to show us your dojo's Bujinkan sparring sessions, then show us when Hatsumi does it.
Have you been to Honbu? Do you know what goes on there?
Do you believe in fairies? Afetr all, they're not proven to not exist.
Ninjers... childish minds.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie To answer your first question, yes I do think that you would make that mistake. You are an idiot obviously. You are defending a group of frauds.
Maybe since you are French, you have no idea what sparring means in English. Sparring is when people get into a controlled fight, and each opponent resists with all his ability. Sure there is light sparring, intense sparring, mediocre sparring, etc. But there is always RESISTANCE applied. Booj training is all compliant
bizitch71717 6 months ago
BernardMitochondrie, please show us video evidence of your Bujinkan dojo sparring USING BUJINKAN TAIJUTSU TECHNIQUES.
If you cannot/will not provide evidence of Bujinkan sparring at your dojo (WHICH NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER DONE), then you're no different to any other Buj LARPing liar on this forum.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@bizitch71717 "Either prove otherwise or you are lying." ==> Now, you just bent the rules of logic, son. That's just infortunate, but right now I'm in holidays, way away from home. And when I'll come back I'll have totally forgotten about you. Do you seriously think I'd take the time to shoot a vid for you? I never debated to convince you, but to show people that are reading us that you guys are the fanboys that despise us, I ain't.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago
@BernardMitochondrie That is not bending the rules of logic. Actually you are claiming against the norm without offering a shred of proof. IF YOU PROVIDE ME EVIDENCE THAT YOU SPAR, I WILL RETRACT MY STATEMENT ABOUT YOU BEING A LIAR. Until then I cannot believe you are telling the truth. In science one must PROVE a theory or concept before it is accepted. You do not just say it works because somebody tells you it does.
Who is your instructor at least? Then I can look him up online.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
Good luck, bizitch71717.
I'm going to bed, here in Australia. I've got a long day of intelligent professional work to do, tomorrow.
This Bernard guy is a gold mine of comedic lines. It's been a while since anyone so foolish tried this.
Ninjers...I'm almost glad they exist.
slapupchrist 6 months ago
@slapupchrist I'm just getting up here in America. I'm sure he'll throw another tantrum and have a crazy tirade for me later in the day.
bizitch71717 6 months ago
@slapupchrist LARPing: Makes it a game, not a martial art, not even a bad one.
Wearing outmoded clothing: Changes nothing at all, you just might look stupid.
Practicing with pretend ancient weapons: Depending on the availability of a simile in modern weapons (Tanto, etc...) changes different stuff.
I knew a kendoka who broke his opponent's forearm in the streets using a cardboard poster pipe. Learning weapons helps you using what you find to fight and improves your empty-hand techniques.
BernardMitochondrie 6 months ago