Historian confirm that the Bible now contains the interpolation.

[lockynboycannen]

How does this continue...?

[bentremy]

dont believe these lies

[murphydonut]

And one last thing. Here is the context.

Here, the passage asks one to keep in mind the separation between belief and unbelief both in the past and the present, ending with the often cited line "To you your religion, and to me mine".

It was revealed in Mecca when the Muslims were persecuted by the polytheists of Mecca.

Peace

[murphydonut]

And dear waiselaka,

To make it easier on you here is the surah taken from a secular website=) (wiki)

Say (O Prophet): O ye who reject faith! (1)

I worship not that which ye worship; (2)

Nor worship ye that which I worship. (3)

And I shall not worship that which ye worship. (4)

Nor will ye worship that which I worship.(5)

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (6)

[murphydonut]

Dear waiselaka,

You speak about context and yet you claim that Islam makes it legal to kill unbelievers at all times. What context are you talking about.? The context of the quran is always clear and if you know the meaning of context it is clear that your interpretation "Islam permits the killing of unbelievers at all times" is taken out of context. Go ahead defend your religion but do it with truth not lies. And if you want to know our stand on other religions, please read surah Al-Kafirun.

[kharlmina]

Nor were the Muslims the only ones to hope for a return to Islam. For generations, apart for some years of madness under Caliph al-Hakim,D Jews of the land and the city had, on the whole, been treated with tolerance by the Muslim rulers of Palestine. Yet what had the Christians done? Among the first monstrous acts of their presence in Jerusalem they had shut Jews in a synagogue and burnt them alive.

Now JEWS are arrogant without muslims before they were all perished in the hand of Crusader.

[waiselaka]

well, who are fighting to this date with the Jews in Jerusalem? are there more Jews in Saudi or Iran compared to in USA? read more!

Mohamad and his followers imposed heavy tax on non believers including the Jews, otherwise they would be killed. they were called pigs and treated as second class society. What a harmony! hahahah

[psychlopes1976]

"Mohamad and his followers imposed heavy tax on non believers" - define heavy? they payed tax, and Muslims paid Zakat. Everybody pays tax today - what's the difference? and no they were not treated as second class citizens they reached high positions in government, and they were not called pigs, the Quran was telling a story about a group of Jews who went astray and were turned into pigs. You need to get your information straight.

[waiselaka]

quran 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in ... until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." so jizya is not a normal tax as people pay today, it's a ransom for unbelievers' life. quran clearly justifies it, even though it's not applied by all muslims. Where in the quran did allah turn jews into pigs? Can you find one church in saudi? can you name a high rank official in islamic country who is a non muslim?

[psychlopes1976]

And give me an example of a Jew or christian who didn't pay Jizyah and was killed? Also give me an example of a country in which anyone can live today without paying any kind of tax - sounds like a nice place to live

[waiselaka]

I told you, jizya and tax we pay today are different in their targets, motives and purposes. It's not the problem if moslems still impose jizyah to unbelievers or not, if you have 1 or many wives the problem is, if you kill unbelievers at anytime, etc. THE PROBLEM IS quran justifies the collection of jizyah, justifies polygamy, justifies the killing of unbelievers at any time until islam is the only religion in the world and other evil things. the evil nature of quran is the matter.

[psychlopes1976]

waiselaka - I'm amazed at how fast you were quick to invoke the "context" defense for the bible, but you fail to do so for Quran, supposedly intentionally, every verse you quoted was revealed in a certain situation at a certain time and for a specific purpose as well, quoting one-liners will certainly not show that. So try to be objective. (cont)

[waiselaka]

I've always been objective. By mentioning polygamy in my argument, I didn't mean to overlook or mix the context. I just want to show some quranic commands that is applicable at all times whether or not people obey it. If you like let's just put aside polygamy and focus on license to fight against unbelievers. you can see that quran regards fighting against unbelievers until they vanish as OBLIGATORY FOR ALL MOSLEMS. it's not for specific time, but for all time until islam be the only religion

[waiselaka]

The Bible indeed has clear context for each event written in it , thus any interpretation of verses needs to be done within the context, whereas quran doesn't have clear context, thus open to any interpretation. Even surahs in the same chapter are not clear whether they were revealed at the same time and under the same circumstance, thus contextually obscure.

[psychlopes1976]

Anyway, sorry for the use of the "hater" label, didn't mean to offend you.

[waiselaka]

well, I just want to have a nice discussion with you. There's no intention to insult anyone. I have many moslem friends and I love them all and I respect their choice of religion. But when someone questions my faith, I have the right to explain or argue back. I just want to do it nicely

[psychlopes1976]

Since in Islam polygamy is allowed with the condition that the man should treat his wives equally, but in the same verse God says that men will not be able to do so ... So if you look at this equation, you would find that men are not allowed to have more than one wife unless he treats his wives equally, but man will never be able to do that, so man is not allowed to have more than one wife. It's a very difficult condition to meet, but still the permission is there - only as a last resort.

[waiselaka]

you clearly miss my point here. My concern is what's written in quran. quran justification for imposing Jizya or else death penalty for unbelievers is all that matter. quran legalizes this for all time until no religion but islam stands. It's the teaching that matter.

[psychlopes1976]

"who are fighting to this date with the Jews in Jerusalem?" Palestinians (like me) whose land had been taken from them by force by people hailing from all over the world because they claim God promised them the land a couple of thousand years ago. Jews before Israel were living peacefully in Palestine with the Arabs, until Zionists decided to come and claim it as their own.

[waiselaka]

Jews never lived in harmony with muslims. they were repressed &robbed by mohamad & his followers, & their women were taken as as sex slaves. By the way, Jews are jews, NOT Christians. Islam is in constant wars with the Jews and Christians because it's mandatory as quran regulates. So as long as there are unbelievers, moslems are obliged to wage wars. No wonder wee see suicide bombings to date by moslems everywhere, killing in the name of allah for gaining 75 virgins in islamic heaven.

[psychlopes1976]

"justifies polygamy" ... Just because you don't believe polygamy doesn't mean its wrong. And Islam allowed it as a last resort to solve social certain problems, it did not encourage it, it actually discourages it, but since Islam is a universal religion, it keeps room for situations were the benefits of a man having more than one wife outweighs its potential harm. I personally would argue that the stance of Islam on Polygamy borders on prohibition , and I can prove it... (cont)

[psychlopes1976]

"Jews never lived in harmony with muslims." So you say, history tells it differently. Islam has not always been at war with Christians and Jews, and its not so even now, it only appears so, because of current world events such as the Palestinian-Israeli situation and so on. We're not ordered to kill non-believers let alone people who already believe in God (Christians and Jews) although misguided. And you only think so because you've read one too many Islam-hating sites.

[waiselaka]

I didn't mean to twist history. Please stop pretending that you don't know the truth. Jews were able to live side by side with moslems because the paid jizya, or convert to islam otherwise they would be killed. don't call it harmony! Can we build a church or synagogue in saudi? what a fake harmony. S 2:216: "Prescribed for you, OBLIGATORY , is FIGHTING, disbelievers...." 8:39 "And FIGHT with them UNTIL there is no more persecution & RELIGION SHOULD BE ONLY FOR ALLAH

[psychlopes1976]

Hi waiselaka ... I don't have much time now, I'm only on a break so I'll address the Jizya thing when I'm back home, but you're too woundup about that Saudi thing, can Muslims build mosques in the Vatican? I'm from Jordan, it's a Muslim country, and churches are built here everywhere. So it's not that Islam prohibits the building of worship houses at all in Muslim governed lands.

[waiselaka]

You just have to know that, I'm not actually interested in discussing filthy things people do including saudi thing. My concern is that quran legalizes those filthy things to be done universally by moslems, as you can see in surah 2:16. If the religion should only be for allah, then you don't have to be a genius to understand that quran prohibits the existence of any other religions, thus their houses of worship are illegal. a simple logic!

[psychlopes1976]

Well if you're not "interested" in discussiong, you're just another "hater" who reads something one some website, and take it as the truth without any research and without actually being "interested" to know the truth. You're just looking for tool to fight Islam, you don't care if those tools are fake. Quran has context for everything you just have to read more than a couple verses in each case to know it. Muslims understand the Quran just find without reading anybody's commentaries.

[waiselaka]

aww you're jumping to a wrong conclusion! can't you see my point? I place my focus on a more important thing. You don't want to debate my point because you can't deny that my argument concerning what's written in quran is true. quran legalizes killing of unbelievers at all time. Instead, you accused me as a hater. pity!

[psychlopes1976]

Actually I am going to debate your point, I'm just constructing my argument... I've got deadlines and work to do too you know, so I'm sorry if I'm not as quick as you are in fishing one-liners from websites to prove my point. Don't worry, I'll respond to your point soon enough.

[waiselaka]

you can take your time. if you like you can explain to me by sending messages. This window doesn't allow many sentences

[psychlopes1976]

Well put, believe it or not, this is what I'm doing too, I have many Christian friends here in Jordan, and to tell you the truth we never really discuss religion, but when I'm on you tube and feel Islam is being attacked I defend my faith, but like you said, I truly try to do it as amicably as possible.

[psychlopes1976]

Here, have a look at this and see for yourself.

watch ? v = PWvMJuHJ1fI

I personally don't need this video to know what I'm talking about my family has been living in Palestine for generations, way before Israel was established.

[psychlopes1976]

"hey are guilty of their own crimes. on the other hand, quran clearly justifies killing of innocence, child molesting, and other filthy crimes" No it doesn't, that's what your Islamaphobic friends tell you and try to prove it by taking verses out of context. Read the Quran for yourself and have a brain. And the word in the Quran for what you call "virgins" doesnt not mean virgins at all. And they are celestial beings not human beings.

[kharlmina]

11th-12th Century: The First Crusade: Muslims were tolerant of others, Christians were not

Throughout the Middle Ages, the [Muslims] were more civilized and more humane than the Christians. Christians persecuted Jews, especially at times of religious excitement; the Crusades were associated with appalling pogroms. In Mohammedan countries, on the contrary, Jews at most times were not in any way ill treated. Especially in Moorish Spain.

"History of Western Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell, p324

[waiselaka]

many people can claim themselves as Christians and yet commit crimes, however there's no justification given by the Bible for their actions. They are guilty of their own crimes. on the other hand, quran clearly justifies killing of innocence, child molesting, and other filthy crimes and grants the perpetrators a place in heaven full with dark-eyed virgins ready to serve their sex appetite. Get yourself a mirror!

[psychlopes1976]

Also maybe the NT doesn't say much about violence, but your OT had a lot of killing of women and children and slashing of the bellies of pregnant women and so on - but then again I guess God in the bible just went soft all of a sudden. It doesn't matter if the OT was for the Jews, it's the same God, you don['t get to point the finger when your bible has God "commanding" the killing of women and children, you won't find anything of the sort in the Quran. No "license to kill" in the Quran

[waiselaka]

Take off your presumption, so you can understand better what actually happened in the Old Testament era. Every punishment was imposed for a specific reason, on specific people, in a specific time. Thus it's not a justification for killing any people at any given time for any reasons. in fact quran contains many verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers at all time. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding

[psychlopes1976]

What's in the Quran on the other hand is God giving Muslims permission to go "all out" on their enemies when they are "in battle" fighting for a just cause - defined as "defending themselves" and fighting injustice and oppression and people who have transgressed against their lands" Israel falls under that last one. But even then the killing of civilians is not permitted. We're only to fight those who wield weapons and fight us"...

[waiselaka]

quran 2:216: "Prescribed for you, OBLIGATORY , is FIGHTING, disbelievers...." 8:39 "And FIGHT with them UNTIL there is no more persecution & RELIGION SHOULD BE ONLY FOR ALLAH. These verses give license for muslims to have constant wars with unbelievers, thus justifying them to kill at any time, anywhere until all bow down to allah. 9:5 "So when the sacred months have passed away, then SLAY the idolaters WHEREVER you find them...". 9:29 "FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day"

[TheInternational1]

REPENT: For the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus Christ is coming back soon. I have forewarned you and you are inexcusable.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, turn away from your sins and do what God Almighty says then you will make to heaven. And if you do not your soul will die forever.

Jesus Christ loves us and that is why he died for us on the cross. He will return very soon but no one knows exactly when he will return. Copy and spread this so that people will hear the truth of Christ.

[Mabvudza1]

If you believe in God the Creator of Heaven and earth, then SEEK THE TRUTH and it shall FREE YOU

Bible was corrupted, God send Muhammad PBUH,

We Muslims believe in Jesus Christ and that he will return not only to defeat antichrist, but to tell those who thot they did things in his name, that he knows them not because he is not God, never said it, never asked to be worshipped, and was very explicit about that fact.

You must repent and submit to the will of God and SEEK THE TRUTH FAIRLY!

[waiselaka]

How do you know that the Bible was corrupted? how do you measure its reliability? How do you know that quran was from God? mohamad heard a bell while being possessed and he said in hadith that bell is musical instrument of satan. so the revelation he got was from satan.

[Mabvudza1]

You got your bible from the Church and scholars Catholics have 73 books Protestant 66 books Some say Jesus God some say prophet some say son of God Some say all But u all claim to have the same Holy Spirit... ??? You have the Gospel from Mark Matthew Luke and Jhn, BUT NONE FROM JESUS HIMSELF!!! funny aint it, Jesus foretold the spirit of truth to guide unto ALL THINGS, thats Muhammad. Jeremiah 8:8 read it

[waiselaka]

Catholic Bible has additional books contained in the Old Testament that other Bibles (Bible translations) do not. Yes we have different views on that additional books, but there are no efforts to destroy them to hide anything. Look what uthman did to other versions of quran? hiding something? In calling Himself the Son of God Jesus signified that in His human attributes, He actually lowered down Himself as a son who obeyed his father's will, giving example to His followers to obey God.....

[Mabvudza1]

u know Jesus' brothers had their books, but they are nothing like wat u practice, they say people were deviating frm the path, naturally noone accepted this, so the church decided not to put them in, who chose wat books to go in the BIBLE man??

[waiselaka]

who are those you call Jesus' brothers? do you have those books they wrote?have you checked their historical and theological reliability? don't just talking non sense

[kharlmina]

11th-12th Century: The First Crusade: Muslims were tolerant of others, Christians were not

Throughout the Middle Ages, the [Muslims] were more civilized and more humane than the Christians. Christians persecuted Jews, especially at times of religious excitement; the Crusades were associated with appalling pogroms. In Mohammedan countries, on the contrary, Jews at most times were not in any way ill treated. Especially in Moorish Spain.

"History of Western Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell, p324

[waiselaka]

The role of the prophet in the Old Testament was to foretell the future and the truths about God. Jesus, of course, did both of these things. But was Jesus only a prophet? NO! He performed many miracles, manifested power over sickness and death and He also had power over the elements. As Jesus said, He also has the authority on earth to forgive sins, something that only God can do.

[Mabvudza1]

miracles done with God's permission

John 5:30

i can of my own authority DO NOTHING!!!

and he also says all authority is GIVEN TO ME, given by whom??

[waiselaka]

Please be reminded that while living on earth, Jesus was both man and God. NOT partly God partly man. The message He brought was from Himself and the authority he displayed signify His deity. John 5:30 shows that everything that Jesus said and did while being a human were from God and by God, NOT man. With His own divine power Jesus did His ministry. As He said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10.30)

[waiselaka]

the same testimony given by many people about a person is more reliable than just one testimony from the same person about him/herself? mohamad's claim of having revelation from God came from his own mouth, no one can prove it. As a prophet, what has he prophesied? what miracles did he do to prove that he received God's power? The Spirit of the Truth that Jesus foretold is THE HOLY SPIRIT not a mere human, let alone the blood thirsty mohamad

[Mabvudza1]

wow ur holy spirit showed u all truth(the 100's of different churches with 100's of different teachings which all make claim to this spirit), and of things to come? r u sure?? check wat Jesus said

Muhammad bore witness of Jesus,

Told of things to come

guided us unto all truth

and glorified Jesus. exactly as Jesus said.

the holy spirit just let people speak in tongues about what was already told... not as Jesus said... wat happend?

[waiselaka]

can you argue intelligently a little bit? bring your facts right. Don't just jumble around making up non sense. Support your claim with evidence. There are many churches but all have the same faith: JESUS IS GOD. We all believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. islam has sunni, shiah, ahmadiya, etc. so what?

[waiselaka]

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Jesus that was given to the disciples so they could go and preach His words to the whole world. "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you". Mohamad killed many ppl and you call him comforter? is there something new that mohamad prophesied about things to come? he just repeated what the Bible said that Jesus will come again

[waiselaka]

If you want to understand Jeremiah 8:8 clearly, you have to read the whole context. Don't just pick any verses to meet your agenda. The book has narrative background so you can follow the story and understand when, what, to whom and why God said something. It's not like quran which has no framework, but just a collection of irrelevant, disjointed verses without clear sequence. Wake up!