RE:Wage Slavery is a Symptom of Unfree Markets

[distopiadnb]

Oh please don't quote Marx this way. Wishful thinking about "horizontal" whatever has *nothing* to do with Marx. Hierarchy, specialization and incorporation are necessary preconditions of productivity and output growth, which in turn are the preconditions of well being and political liberty. The problem is their class content, not their function per se. Read less frankfurtese nonsense and more Schumpeter please.

[snarfeater]

the fed IS a corporation do realize the only reason these businesses get so wealthy is because they take money from the taxpayers, or use the government to shield competition. I dont get how people cant grasp that concept, especially people who claim they care about actual truth. I can understand why a professor who spew bullshit, because the truth has implications that could have a negative effect on their career, but maybe you have something at stake too?

[slainemacroth]

Interesting stuff. Another critique to laughinman is that the outcome of competitive markets (whether free or not) is that workers end up choosing to appointment managers and recreating hierarchical structures in order to compete.(see Mondragon etc) Before too long such public enterprise economies revert to class-ridden Yugoslavia then onto capitalism. For more on this argument see participatory economics.

[themaniusedtob]

im still waiting for this guy to say something i cant agree with... no luck

[dubified89]

Still isn't it coercive though to prohibit people from having any kind of a market when a market under socialism would just be voluntary interactions between people? Wouldn't replacing that system entirely with democracy rather than just limiting property rights to use and possession be creating a majoritarian hierarchy in itself? It would be the only hierarchy, the majority ruling the minority, but still a hierarchy none the less it seems to me. At this point I don't care though, I'll just go

[dubified89]

w/whatever the predominant stain of anarchism is for tactical reasons & cause it'll be way better than things are now regardless

[nsaneforevr1]

what the fuck is wage slavery. truly man. the laborer is agreeing to work a a set wage that is agreed upon be him and the "evil" capitalist then there is no slavery. what utter nonsense you spew out. so if the capitalist, who is risking his assets fail, then the laborers should sacrifice their assets too? no, that is double exploitative. time to start living in the real world.

[peterfdrucker]

Wage slavery is renting your body out to someone else. Renting your body is wrong. In the real world many people are forced by hunger to agree to renting out their bodies. This is terrible.

There are the imaginary worlds of the idealist where everyone has equal bargaining power ... everyone who works at Walmart has freely decided to do so, for example. This kind of thinking is the cute fantasy of teenagers who've just finished their first Ayn Rand book.

[nsaneforevr1]

@peterfdrucker there is no such thing as equal, there is bargaining, but the worker is taking a lower risk then by trying to create, which is what his employer is doing.

people starve, yes they do, but look where they are, in countries w/ low economic freedom. do we starve. in the us people are poor and fat. why, because food is cheap, why because the evil capitalist can create so much surplus food, that we are also the number 1 exporter in it. where does japan get most of their food, us.

[nsaneforevr1]

@peterfdrucker i rent out my body to an employer, yes, and so do you. is that truly bad. are you saying that i dont own my own body, that someone else does? do u? can tell me that i should not work for an employer and do nothing? shut the hell up. if people didnt exert some work, they would not be able to take care of themselves or service their neighbor. in fact their wouldnt be any leisure we enjoy w/o someone working. god w/o work there would be no internet that we enjoy debating on.

[nsaneforevr1]

@peterfdrucker i may have read ayn rand and enjoyed it, but i also read books on basic economics; sumthin that u, mr1001, or any1 that believes this garbage has ever taken the time to do. labor brings about leisure. start livin in the real world, enjoyment requires work. that computer u use, the food u eat, ur goddam dentist. the people involved worked to enjoy leisure later.

when there is a right to something u have less of it. u have a right to yourself not to others. read a econ book.

[SecularNumanist]

@derp

"Renting your body is wrong." you can shove your moralizing up your ass. Whats important is results and what creates a greater amount of prosperity for as many people as possible.

"This kind of thinking is the cute fantasy of teenagers who've just finished their first Ayn Rand book." - Laughingman0X hates Ayn Rand, and most people who equate market economics to Ayn Rand have A) never read Ayn Rand and B) Never heard of anyone other than Ayn Rand (and what Chomsky says about Adam Smith)

[qtronRobespierre]

Fuck bosses! I hate working for bosses! Now can you give me some money?

[mr1001nights]

@qtronRobespierre

Brilliant sarcasm, equally useful to defend chattel slavery. Congratulations

[qtronRobespierre]

@mr1001nights

I'm not being sarcastic man. I'm serious. I really don't like most bosses.

[Peacehand]

This theoretical efficiency bullshit gets on my nerves. When a person goes to work at MacDonalds or some place, they don't think, "I'm sure gonna sling these burgers efficiently!"

They think, "I do X for X amount of hour, so that I get the things I need to survive."

People are way too alienated. Do the people who espouse this shit even work in the real world?

I still think they would not be in favor of market abolitionism, even if it were more efficient. They would just make something else up

[MrSalamander7]

"Every human being deserves food, water, clothes, a tin roof, a concrete floor and medical care."

-Paul Farmer, one of the world's greatest humanitarians.

[Moncayowind]

There seems to be a real obsession on the part of the materially powerful (and the less materially powerful who condone their actions, perhaps in hopes of becoming one of them) to define what the word "need" is, and discard any debate whatsoever regarding this, that might challenge their definition of "need" (which they seem to not want to ever separate from "fancy") because they see it as "limiting freedom and self-advancement".

[NamelessCommenter]

It's been sad to watch LM0X's rightward shift. I've seen several people comment on it. He's falling for simplistic nonsense and he doesn't understand half of what he argues against (e.g., LTV). Marginalism is only half a theory.

As for marginal productivity theory, it is thoroughly bankrupt. Here's a great video exposing how it amounts to nothing more than a smokescreen to prevent us from noticing that humans are pretending to be the living embodiment of nature and machines: watch?v=1AZW2_hlJlE

[metalorg]

I think you've missed the guy's point about a person's "needs". When he exaggerated about needing lots of cars and gold he was making an analogy of how the left's view of people needing housing, medicine, food and water is over-extravagant.

The way to address this is a moral one. Also to show that it is possible to provide a proper standard of living for people.

What you said was that the left aren't asking for sports-cars.

[DesmondE]

Excellent!!!!!

[scorchedearthdj]

Good video. I look forward to the end of wage slavery and the death of market fundamentalism.

[WOGI5M]

How old are you, Jonathan?

[tiecuando]

Look at it this way, once upon a time there was a free Earth. Now look, see? Just replace the word "Earth" with market. If you missed this, there it is. If not, then you might have an agenda of your own.

[kalimeraHellas]

@tiecuando very correct idea. Free earth - Free market

[organdva]

China's authoritarian model is fucking efficient.

[epsilon8998]

@donroche HAHAHAHAHA you a capitalist talking about the difference between fantasy and reality? You must be dreaming or living in a dream land if you think you can say that about socialists. What is it about socialism, or reality for that matter, that makes it a fantasy? I have no doubt that you'll say OH THE USSR DUR DEE DUR. But remember that they WERE a world super power for several decades before economic and political circumstances forced its collapse.

[epsilon8998]

@donroche Is it really a fairytale, or is it just so complicated to you that it seems like one? Just as 21st century computer technology would look like supernatural magic to a caveman, so would complex logical arguments look like a fairytale to you...

[netinfoseek]

Good video Jonathan

Markets aren’t free nor do they produce freedom.

[KhmerD0g]

the damn FED manipulates interest rate. the market never gets the chance to set the rate. heck, they even manipulate precious metals.

[mr1001nights]

@KhmerD0g

Nah, businesses in society, especially banks control the Fed, not the other way around

[KhmerD0g]

@mr1001nights

the people who are running the FED used to work on Wall Street. it is no wonder they favored their friends on Wall Street.

[alistairproductions]

@mr1001nights the federal reserve creates credit out of thin air. no?

[fps0chris]

@mr1001nights you do realize the only reason these businesses get so wealthy is because they take money from the taxpayers, or use the government to shield competition. I dont get how people cant grasp that concept, especially people who claim they care about actual truth. I can understand why a professor who spew bullshit, because the truth has implications that could have a negative effect on their career, but maybe you have something at stake too?

[epsilon8998]

@KhmerD0g Of course the FED only manipulates the rates under the assumption that doing so maximizes the rate of profit that capitalists receive, usually involving massive speculation and market gambling. The real problem is not the market per se but the profit motive. This we have to eliminate if we want to really fix things.

[aSheeple]

@KhmerD0g the fed IS a corporation

[Ilikenuman]

i would allow these horizontal firms to abolish the market. I just dont think it would happen completely.

[mauroprovatos]

holy shit, hair

[mr1001nights]

@mauroprovatos

yep, and I ain't cutting it for at least 6 months

[mauroprovatos]

@mr1001nights good,any decent anarchist has long hair and beard.

[simply2ghetto]

@mr1001nights

Why aren't you cutting it? did you lose a bet??

[aaaaaaaars]

@mr1001nights you're really into this stuff aren't you? what's next? hormones? surgery? :P

[FreeEcon]

@mr1001nights "Need doesn't go that far"

Then where do you draw the line?