Evidence of the Historicity of the Bible

[Cathmoytura]

1:00, “But if I or anyone did a much more serious and through investigation, many more examples could be found.” … This is called confirmation bias. There are some people and places named in the Bible that we have extra-biblical evidence for—I don’t believe anyone has ever said otherwise. 8:00, “We can make the next step and say the Bible is, at least in part, a historical document.” No viable scholar has ever said otherwise. But, that’s a long way off from proving its central attestations.

[moopism]

that the Bible is, at least in part, an historical document.

See, it's that "in part" bit y'all seem to ignore and race to the conclusion that means all, including YOUR particular interpretation thereof.

[ancienthebreworg]

@moopism Are you assuming that I believe the Bible as a whole is completely accurate? You know what they say when you "assume" something.

[UrukEngineer]

You start with a strawman of those who doubt the bible's validity when it comes to assessing whether key facts are correct. No one cares whether "Gelaliah ben Pashhur" existed. What is more important is that there is no evidence for King David, Jesus (his existence and resurrection), Nazareth etc - nothing central to the religious stories. Instead the evidence for a polytheistic foundation of the Abrahamic faiths is conveniently ignored.

[jraposo]

For those who deny the spiderman legitimacy, how do you explain the existance of reporters? or spiders?, Their history originates before the time of Thor and Zeus. They are a living prophecy

[lzpf07]

For those who deny the bibles legitimacy... how do you explain the existence of the jewish people? Their history originates before the time of Moses. They are a living prophecy

[SuperJamesfletcher]

Great video

[RhadeConstantine]

@apopyalips ahaha, you should be a comedian, lets see your list of persuasive arguments "constantine is a comic book character" "im sleepy" "you're possessed by demons" "god exists" sad really, and incase you're too stupid to remember (psst, you probably are, you replied to my comment moron) though in hind sight i agree, fools like you should be ignored shouldn't they? but please, don't call it arguing, its an insult to people who really argue, this is more of you acting like a retard.

[RhadeConstantine]

@apopyalips God doesn't exist. deal with it. foolish morons who think that saying "god exists" has any meaning do sadly exist though. BUUUUT, Zeus, Thor and Wotan exist, deal with it. btw, I'm really grateful that you continue to prove my point that you can't form a coherent argument keep it up, maybe next you should say 'god exists because mummy said so" ?

[RhadeConstantine]

@apopyalips aww how cute, the baby is sleepy because the baby can't form a coherent argument, did the bad bad atheists scare you with their evil little logic? don't cry child. there is a magic man in the sky who'l give you rainbows and ponies to play with, please continue posting though, your every comment just shows how you can't form a coherent argument.

[RhadeConstantine]

@apopyalips suuure, you reply to my comment then when your stupidity and inability to form a coherent argument is shown you need to run, good going my friend, I'm sure your parents are proud of you.

[RhadeConstantine]

@apopyalips and you apparently are a moron who thinks a rebuttal consists of pointing out that an online nick is the same as that of character in a comic book hahahahah, but to be honest its good to see you religious folk are so retarded on the whole. atleast we know nothing of value is lost. thanks :)

[RhadeConstantine]

@apopyalips the former CLAIMED? ok, so if JK Rowling had added the line "this is a historical document" in Harry Potter it would make it true? are you actually this dumb? if a book claims to be a historical document it is?

[shadywolf91]

I have a question, why don't the stone tablets contain the same letters that you claim they do? In both of them you see a "g" which looks like one of our letter or perhaps like the Arabic letter "wow" and yet these artifacts don't have the same letters. Care to explain? Is it some ancient form? And if it is can you show everyone?

[ancienthebreworg]

@shadywolf91 Which tablet are speaking about?

[shadywolf91]

@ancienthebreworg The first two.

[ancienthebreworg]

@shadywolf91 The first two are written in Paleo-Hebrew, which was in use from about 1,000 BCE to about 400 BCE. In the first one, the "g" is in the top ine, second letter from the right, and it kind of looks like an English R. There is no "g" in the second seal, but the letter that looks like a "g" in both of these seals is the Hebrew letter beyt - "b" as in "ben" meaning "son."

[shadywolf91]

@ancienthebreworg Very interesting. I've heard of the Tel Dan Inscription before so I didn't doubt you I was just curious.

[Kwame1983]

Listen, you cannot claim to prove whether or not the bible is historically true, with out the mention of some dates

[ancienthebreworg]

@Kwame1983 Why?

[RhadeConstantine]

lol by these arguments even Harry Potter should be considered to be real.

[IdaSputum]

@RhadeConstantine Baa, baa ZM sheep. Ooh when are your BUBBLE houses ready to move into? Oh, they've only built FEMA camps so far? 

Sorry to hear that, but Im sure Satanist lying "NON-religious" banker-owned ZM will only put you in the camps as a stop-gap! Honest! SUCKER.

IM NON-religious. I do NOT feel the need to RE-write history to exclude ANTI-BANKER, KICKASS REVOLUTIONARY Jesus. Neither do respected Atheist histoy Professors. But then we're not BANKER GOVT /Satanist Eugenicists

[RhadeConstantine]

@IdaSputum you're probably trolling. if not, i feel very very very sorry for you

[IdaSputum]

@RhadeConstantine It's OK, I'm luckily not a ZM sucker - Im cured.

[jraposo]

so basically, if i write about a spider-man rescuing people in times square, 100 years later new york is destroyed and another 1000 years later my writings are found in the ruins, that makes the amazing spider-man more believable as a true existing hero?

[lzpf07]

@jraposo technically, if you write about many gods and there out of this world powers... 3000 years from now people will believe that these gods were real. No that is just greek mythology. There is a big difference when someone claims a story to be true as oppose to a myth or a fictional story. The bible legitimizes its self through prophecy, archeology and hope for humanity. If you actually follow it's wisdom you will become a loving person to yourself and the world.

[no1saphead]

Not much evidence ,the white cliff's of Dover has more .

[jennafawTV]

beautiful...

[DonJulioBlanco2002]

Homer wrote about gods and legendary figures in actual cities and places. Grounding mythological narratives in real places doesn't make the narratives more credible as actual events.

[jensenzo]

That is true. And since Superman comics mention Kansas as the place superman grew up... and we know that Kansas exists... Superman comics can be treated as a historical manuscript.

[Humbler25]

@TheDarvus actually you've been correct time and time again and that proof is right here.

[Humbler25]

@TheDarvus so you agree he made good points and defeated you in debate. Good! We finally agreed on something. You shouldn't call yourself a moron though, it's ok, your learning.

[IdaSputum]

@Humbler25 WELL said

[Humbler25]

@TheDarvus Teague67 makes good points... I think you've just been defeated... again!

[teague67]

@TheDarvus u still cannot explain why noone challenged jesus' historicity at the actual time.

[teague67]

@TheDarvus but do u refute eddie smith? that's the deal breaker. because jesus' historicity (not divinity, semantic relevance or linguistic accuracy, as pertaining 2 english) could easily have be refuted by people who actually lived at the actual time that jesus lived and died and not 1 single record shows that any 1 did. this is why no respected historian has ever taken jesus mythers seriously including atheist ones.

[teague67]

@TheDarvus never mind tht. lets start the eddie smith fan club. find some recruits. i have been on photoshop 2 get an idea of what eddie looked like and have been composing some covers of his famous songs. lets get this going, theres "power" and "knowledge" 2 b gained by this!

[teague67]

@TheDarvus oh right v compettitive, i tell u wot. there was an 80's rock star called eddie smith who had 9 no 1's worldwide. i am his biographer. all of his recordings are deleted but u should be able 2 confirm this as u lived during his lifetime. even if u can't u should be gullible enough 2 believe me.

[teague67]

@TheDarvus at least not 4 the sake of a hoax. why did paul/ joe invent jesus instead of just claiming tht he was the messia himself. it seems a bit convoluted.

[teague67]

@TheDarvus i'm not sure if u r claiming tht jesus never existed as u r quoting this paul/ joe composite as if his word is reliable and confirmable, despite previously claiming tht it isn't. sure christianity is an offshoot of judaism and zoroastrianism through judaism and may even have been influenced by the cult of caesar. if the paul/ joe composite ended up crucified and had all of his followers persecuted 4 centuries 2 come, i wouldn't want tht kind of power/ knowledge.

[teague67]

@TheDarvus thats a pretty huge claim. where's the evidence (or even rational or MOTIVE) 2 support this as it would involve quite a lot of suspension of disbelief 4 me 2 just accept that.

[xclosetohumanx]

In 2000 years when someone finds a Spider Man comic they will contend it's a historical document because it takes place in New York and contains references to real people like Obama. Just because the Bible references people and places that existed doesn't make any of its supernatural claims true.

[teague67]

i don't think that the bible is all true or divinely inspired but i find it funny that people think it's an elaborate hoax. never mind evidence or who has the burden of proof what's the motive for a bunch of people making up a lot of stuff off the top of their heads? the events of the illiad and the odyssy were probably broadly true, but sexed up and simplified. even if the bible is only marginally more credible than such sources it's reasonable 2 assume there's some genuine history in there.

[ToastedAndy]

the seals don't look a thing like the names. Places would obviously be named correctly, but the seals dont look like the names.

[georgio3161]

Interesting channel.

[ancienthebreworg]

@georgio3161 Thank you

[kwokshsee]

It may be then-Israelite propaganda, fiction, or folktales based on some real historical figures, you see.

[kwokshsee]

"archaeology has unearthed evidence that does confirm the existence of many of the ppl & places of the Bible, we can therefore conclude that the Bible is a historical document"

Wait a minute! This is obviously a logical fallacy! A text mentioning real ppl & places doesn't thus make it a historical document, real ppl & places are mentioned in folklore, myths, and even fictions but they are by no means historical documents, are they?!

[rupertbrooks0]

Actually no, we cannot know what the author(s) believed. There is in fact no evidence at all for the Exodus for example. The tribulations of the Eygyptians, the slave revolt, the death of a Pharoah (which one?) and the lose of an entire army in the red sea. Yet no mention at all of any of these events in any writing or artifact in Ancient Eygpt. It's crazy to assume that these ancient jewish myths are true.

[ancienthebreworg]

@rupertbrooks0 Actually, there is evidence to prove the Exodus story. A documentary will be coming out later this year or next called "The Exodus Conspiracy: The Mystery of the Covenant." This film has some overwhelming evidence. As I have been part of the production, I have been asked not to reveal the contents of the film, but when it comes to a theater near you, go see it.

[cullyvan]

@ancienthebreworg Well I'm sure if it was truly academic and not yet another joker trying to make money out of the whole Indiana Jones / Dan Brown Bullshit ... we wuld have heard of it.

[ToastedAndy]

@ancienthebreworg You don't have to reveal the contents, you could easily reference this evidence for the drowned army, slave revolt, death of pharoah etc

[rupertbrooks0]

Of course the bible is written by men. Many people still enjoy reading Homer; the great mythology of the ancient Greeks. Yet one seriously believes that Gods really live on Mt Olympus.

[ancienthebreworg]

@rupertbrooks0 You or I may not believe that gods lived on Mt. Olympus, but the author did, that is the point.

[cullyvan]

@ancienthebreworg I think you are coming from a position of trust on behalf of the authors. Much of the Media NOW consists of little morality tales for the populace. I think its very likely similar media existed then and the authors of many of the holy books would be astonished to see what their "babies" have become.

[Ishayau]

Excellent video!

[Imaginefree69]

Where is the archaeological or historical evidence

for the slaughter of the firstborn of Egypt?

Or for the much more recent slaughter of baby boys

in Judea, under Herod?

Isn't it odd that Josephus and his peers

could tell us what kind of cup Herod drank from,

but didn't notice the wholesale government slaughter of babies?

The Bible is a book of bronze-age myth.

Nothing more.

[pianokid100]

@Imaginefree69 Josephus documented exorcisms that he was a first hand witness too. Even mentions the precautions taken to make sure it wasnt a hoax. Now, in light of this fact, does this mean that Josephus is no longer a historical source ?

[Imaginefree69]

@pianokid100

I think you'd better show us your references.

I have read everything Josephus ever wrote about Jesus.

There isn't much of it,

none of it represents an eyewitness account,

and none of it sounds like your claims.

Merely quoting lies from your pastor does not make them true.

References, please?

[pianokid100]

@Imaginefree69 Josephus ("Ant." viii. 2, § 5)

[Imaginefree69]

@pianokid100

If you'd care to explain your reference it may become useful.

So far it's just some letters and numbers.

Josephus was not alive at the time of jesus.

He never wrote any details about jesus,

nor did he "documented exorcisms that he was a first hand witness to."

That is just a lie,

unless you can show us where it is written.

[pianokid100]

@Imaginefree69 im not even christian. I am just showing you and other anti-atheists, how ignorant you are. You mentioned "josephus" as being a credible historian, as YOUR evidence that jesus didnt exist, since Josephus didnt write about him. I just showed you that you are a liar because even IF he wouldve mentioned jesus, you wouldve simply discounted Josephus.

[Imaginefree69]

@pianokid100

You are not being rational, kid.

In the first place, you don't know what anyone would do "IF thus and so."

Secondly, no historian is relevant if they were not alive at the time of the events under consideration.

Grow up, get an education, and try again.

[pianokid100]

@Imaginefree69 First of all, who the hell is talking about jesus? ""I have seen a certain man of my own country, whose name was Eleazar, releasing people that were demoniacal, in the presence of Vespasian and his sons and his captains and the whole multitude of his soldiers...he set a little way off a cup or basin full of water, and commanded the demon, as he went out of the man, to overturn it, and thereby let the spectators know that he had left the man."

[Imaginefree69]

@pianokid100 "First of all, who the hell is talking about jesus?" If you don't know what the topic of discussion is, kid, don't waste our time. The Bible claims that Jesus Christ lived and that he said and did all sorts of things. Much of the account is sheer fiction, and is not supported by ANY historical or archaeological evidence. Josephus does not support the Bible stories, and he specifically does not support the historicity of Jesus. That's my assertion. You've supported it. Thanks.

[pianokid100]

@pianokid100 nobody was talking about jesus, we were discussing the documentation of miracles by historians, and i was pointing out that even if when they do support the idea of miracles, people wont believe them anyways. Watch this, do you believe that the man named Eliezer was able to miraculously cast out demons, and cause the demons to supernaturally turn over cups of water ? That's besides the fact that the NT isnt a book, its several books, which means there is more than one support

[truthhitmanisback]

What does Yahu mean ? can someone tell me? Peace.

[FungusyHam]

Faulty logic; just because the people existed doesn't necessarily mean that the bible is true.

Similarly, even though the characters in Assassin's Creed were real, doesn't mean they were all assassins who discovered magical biblical items that can distort reality. Jeez.

[ancienthebreworg]

Keep in mind the purpose of this video. It is not meant to provide proof that the bible is accurate, but to prove that the statements made by those who wish to discredit the Bible are false. These statements are generally something like, "there is no proof outside of the Bible that King David ever existed proving that the stories in the Bible are fabrications." The purpose of this video is to prove that some of the persons and places of the Bible are facts, not fabrications.

[FungusyHam]

Well those people are making the wrong argument altogether, because even if they exist, that proves nothing. You've been searching for an answer to an argument that doesn't work anyway. :P

[pianokid100]

@FungusyHam i guess you couldn't see through your "raging anti-theist" glasses that the video never made such a claim.

[frikyouall]

Oh I never doubted that the people in the Bible by themselves were fakes, I mean, Stephen King writes about real stuff all the time, you know, to set the mood. Bush - Cheney bumper stickers is one that really hit home in "Cell". Good book, I suggest it to anyone who hasn't read it. Not one of his classic best, but still good. Has a lot of things that can't be disproved in it as well, although he goes about it in the normal perspective of rationalizing things.

I'ma have one more post, no room.

[frikyouall]

I'm not here to argue with you and I'm not here to doubt your religion. I myself am a Christian, and I believe that Jesus probably was a selfless Jew, who couldn't think of any reason not to think of others. I myself think this way all the time. I'm just saying that even if you find all the proof in the world, there will always be proof that runs against it. I can't argue this point without knowing any facts myself, of course, and I won't pretend to.

Well, praise God, I'm out. G'night, all.

[Anksoppa]

lame

[yoops]

All of this means nothing towards the supernatural validity of religions.

[emmybelle10]

you beleive in god, you obviously read the bible, are you jewish? catholic? do you have a religion?

[ancienthebreworg]

I guess you could say I am Messianic. I follow the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) and the Torah.

[TheWildMagic]

I got an email about your new comment, but again my browser isn't displaying it.

//Can you prove that a single person or place in the Bible never existed?//

I shouldn't have to. The burden of proof is on you to prove that they did exist. Again, if I claim leprechauns exist, and I were to employ the technique you just did, I could claim that leprechauns exist since you can't disprove their existence.

Obviously this doesn't work. You have to prove; your opponent doesn't have to disprove.

[ancienthebreworg]

I would say that if you could produce just one leprechaun, then I would believe you, that leprechaun's do exist. Yes, the burden of proof is on me and that is what this video is about, to show that at least some of the people and places of the Bible are accurate. Can I prove every person and place actually existed? No, but then I wouldn't need you to bring me "All" the leprechauns, just one.

[TheWildMagic]

But you haven't brought me a leprechaun. You've brought me pictures of Ireland.

The Bible is essentially a work of historical fiction. Just because it makes reference to famous places and people of the day does not make the main story true. There is still no evidence whatsoever for the divinity of Jesus, the dividing of the Red Sea, the Flood, or the Garden - and that is the stuff that needs evidence to be accepted as true.

[ancienthebreworg]

For archeological evidence of the exodus from Egypt, the crossing of the Red Sea and Mt. Sinai, see the documentary film "The Exodus Conspiracy" which should be out some time next year. I have seen this film and it is mind blowing. History books are filled with unproven facts. Such as it was Kufu who had the Pyramid of Giza built, this is pure BS, no evidence to support it. In fact, there is geological evidence to suggest it and the Sphinx were built long before that.

[TheWildMagic]

I've seen the "evidence" for Exodus. The "chariot wheels" in the water are total crap, as is the rest of it. If these guys had bothered to do their research, they would have known that those are actually coral. It's a common formation, present in a large area in and around the Red Sea.

Again, pictures of Ireland, but no leprechauns.

[ancienthebreworg]

Actually, this film does not even discuss these "chariot wheels," I am speaking of new evidence that has never before been presented.

[TheWildMagic]

Okay, color me interested. What kind of never-before-seen evidence does this video have?

[ancienthebreworg]

As I am involved in the production of this film, I have been asked to not leak out any of the content of the film. I will say that the Israeli government is now interested in the film because its content supports their claims to the land.

[staragsj]

those are called miracles and if we had the explanation we wouldnt need a god. Idiot.

[TheWildMagic]

Huh? Sarcasm is hard to detect on the internet. Are you joking, or are you serious? If you're serious, what are you referring to as "miracles"?

[staragsj]

Idiot.

[TheWildMagic]

Ookay then.

*backs away slowly*

[staragsj]

Faggot.

[TheWildMagic]

Got anything except childish insults, or are you just here to troll?

[pianokid100]

@ancienthebreworg producing a leprechaun is actually quite easy. There is nothing impossible about a midget having gold coins and granting 3 requests upon capture. This is whats funny about anti-theists (not to be confused with actual atheists who have no religious beliefs). You actually have no problem believing ANYTHING as long as it doesnt call for a certain lifestyle and regulations. For example. I asked a raging atheist if he was adverse to exogensis by alien life and he said no. That is ID

[Muradj2002]

Honest question here... if confirming the existence of places makes something a historical document, does that make spy novels that mention new york city a historical document?

[ancienthebreworg]

Novels never claim to be historical, however, the ancient writings of many cultures do claim to be historical.

[Muradj2002]

So... because the bible claims itself to be so, it is? I understand now.

[1lightinthisworld]

I know God exists, and no matter how much evidence people see, some of them will never believe, and that is just how it is. There is evidence for Cities that existed, search for " revealing God's treasure " videos on youtube, there is alot more evidence to see. God is pure light and in him is no darkness at all. God is perfect and pure love, he loves you totally and completely and expects nothing in return, he wants you to love him back, but, all men have their freedom of will. God will be done.

[TheWildMagic]

I received your comment message, but for some reason my browser isn't displaying it on this page, and I can't reply directly to it. Here's my response anyway.

If I tell you that a city existed at a point in time, you would ask me to provide evidence. If the city existed, it wouldn't be difficult. And yet there are several Biblical sites which have no supporting evidence for their existence. Why should we believe that they existed?

I'll continue in another comment; running out of characters.

[TheWildMagic]

The same goes for the Biblical characters. Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Judas... there is no evidence for their existence outside of the Bible. Many prominent historians and scribes of the day conspicuously avoid mentioning Jesus. Why, if he was really such a prominent figure?

If anyone else made claims such as this, about ancient cities and people writing stories about them, they would require evidence. But because Christianity is so widespread and deeply entrenched, questioning it is taboo.

[ancienthebreworg]

We have 1000s of documents from about 50 AD to 200 AD about the life of Jesus, some from his disciples, and some from his disciples disciples, but granted, none of them are from the actual time that Jesus lived. We have a similar scenario with Socrates, the founder Western Philosophy. How do we know that Socrates actually existed? We have nothing written by him, but only his disciples and their disciples. No one seems to question the existence of Socrates as an historical figure, so why Jesus?

[TheWildMagic]

The documents you have are called the New Testament. They ARE the story which you are trying to use them to support. If they aren't part of the New Testament, they are part of the emerging Church, which already believed in Jesus' divinity. Why would they write documents saying that he hadn't performed miracles?

I will cover the Socrates bit in another comment; curse these tiny character limits!

[TheWildMagic]

Your Socrates analogy is fallacious. Aside from there being several people who actually do question whether or not Socrates actually existed, Socrates was an ordinary human. He held weird beliefs for his time, yes, but he was an ordinary human nonetheless. He did not go around claiming to be the son of a god, or turning water into wine, or curing lepers, or doing anything else supernatural.

Claims of supernatural powers require more evidence than claims of mundane excellence.

[ancienthebreworg]

Within Judaism there were many people in the days of Yeshua (Jesus), who performed miracles, Honi the circle drawer is one that comes to mind. By the way, the phrase "son of God" only means a "prophet," it does not mean or claim divinity as Christianity teaches (I am not a Christian).

[TheWildMagic]

And were any of these other "miracles" confirmed?

And if you're not a Christian, why are you defending the Bible? I believe you; I'm just curious.

[ancienthebreworg]

No, they are not confirmed in other writings, but I don't see this as a problem. All through the writings of the ancient peoples of the world are stories of people, places and events that can not be confirmed from outside sources, but this doesn't mean we reject them out of hand. I do believe that the Bible is a written record of events, though tampered with over the ages.

[TheWildMagic]

Actually, yes, finding stories which have absolutely no supporting evidence outside of their own pages DOES mean that we reject them out of hand - at least, if we are looking for accurate descriptions of history.

[squint1991]

@TheWildMagic hes defending it because hes got EVIDENCE. wow. that was hillarious. that really does just go to show how one track minded people are. by u asking that, ur basically implying that u thought the only reason why he was "defending" the Bible was because he was Christian and not because of the historical data hes presented. Thats so stereotypical. But even more than that its ammusing

[squint1991]

@ancienthebreworg what r u than lol

[squint1991]

@TheWildMagic so if socrates went around claiming to do miracles u would say that he never actually lived? i mean in essence that is what ur implying

[TheWildMagic]

Congratulations. The Bible references a few people who really lived and a few cities that really existed.

So does Star Trek.

[gnilward]

I had to post this in three different comments due to the maximum characters counts available to write. Anyway, I will never stop believing in god. He's my second father and I think that he created earth and the universe. Who knows? Maybe, just maybe since he apparantely doesnt leave us modern humans too much faith to convince us to believe, im saying that maybe god has a task for us somehow. Anyway, I always said to my fellow friends that; You don't loose anything by believing that god exists.

[gnilward]

When I think about us "humans" all the arts in the world and problably more living arts on some other planet I convine myself in a good way that this couldnt just be created by a "big bang".. this is the part where god and and the bible comes in. I've tried like millions of times to pray to god for different kind of stuff, and much of its actually helps. Some old people used to tell me that they could hear god speak to them. I tried to pray to god and ask him to speak to me, but didn't work.

[gnilward]

This was a nice movie, I was grown up believing in God, bible and Jesus etc and I still do (Im 16 years old), but somehow..the older I get and the more I discover about the universe, earth and the science it feels like the whole religious doesnt fit in, this isnt a theory I want to believe in ofc, but sometimes its actually tbh like im forcing myself to believe in God.

[AtheistToothFairy]

Yes, the bible is IN PART, is an historical document...whoopee do.

Did I miss it, or did you also show evidence that Moses and the Burning Bush was real somewhere to?

How about the Garden of Eden....Got anything there?

How about the massive quantity of Jews escaping from Egypt, via a parted Red Sea, hmmm

King Kong climbed the Empire State Bldg, but just because that building is real, doesn't mean Kong was, now does it?

I'm sure mundane biblical accounts can be real, so what.

[ancienthebreworg]

You are correct, not every event or person in the Bible has been historically validated. The point is that while for many years people have claimed that people like King David never existed, but historical inscriptions have surfaced to show that King David did in fact exist. The same is true for many OT figures. As for the Exodus and the Crossing of the Red Sea, yes there is evidence and that evidence will be coming out in a new Movie/Docu titled "The Exodus Conspiracy."

[AtheistToothFairy]

ancient,

Okay, I watched the intro and trailer for this 'Exodus Conspiracy' upcoming movie.

They offered nothing (so far) that would convince me of a 'conspiracy', anymore than the Moon Hoax people have evidence for their own nutty conspiracy ideas.

I also didn't see them show any evidence for this grand Exodus either.

The sheer volume of Jews said to have left Egypt, alone, would indicate this to be a myth, even w/o plagues and a god doing miracles.

[ancienthebreworg]

The trailer or videos on the web site do not go into any details, but speaking as one who has had the priveledge of viewing the movie already (I am doing some work with the production) I was blown away by the evidence. I wish I could detail the evidence here, but do to requirements I am unable to do so at this time.

[ancienthebreworg]

Fifty years ago, people like you were very adamant that King David never existed. Since then, because of the evidence, no one can ever say that again. Who is to say that evidence for Moses won't surface over the next fifty years. Time will tell. But do we need to the evidence? No, I sure don't.

[ChristianIce]

To make a book a history book you need a writer to sign it.

Coincides or taking pieces of history and putting them in "lord of the rings" doesn't make LOTR a history book.

If you are right, all greek mithology is true, because it contains true fact mixed with fantasy, so zeus and apollo are true as well.

Simply said: FAIL.

[ancienthebreworg]

Let us not forget that the Bible (specifically the OT) is not a history book, it is an ancient document which records the life, culture and mythology of the Ancient Hebrews. Rather than comparing the OT to a modern history book, it would be more appropriate to compare it to the Ugarit tablets of Ras Shamra or the Eluma Elish of Babylon. These ancient works record the life, culture and mythology of their cultures in the same Semitic fashion as the Ancient Hebrews.

[ChristianIce]

Sounds good to me, but i am missing your point.

[ancienthebreworg]

Just as the Ugarit and Enuma Elish documents record the facts of their ancient civiliazation, the OT does the same for the Hebrews. We know that when the Ugarit tablets record that person X wronged his neighbor, we know this was an historical fact. When the OT says that person X wronged his neighbor, we know this was an historical fact. When the Ugrit tablets records the mythology of their gods we know that these are the factds about their belief system. The same goes for the Hebrew mythology.

[ChristianIce]

Though history, tribes were mixed and cultures as well, mithologies and legends fused in a new one.

That's very obvious in egypt culture, and we still do similar things like putting jesus birth the 25th december, so christians and pagans are happy and nobody bother the dictator.

Still, i miss the point .. is there any relation to god existance or to bible veridicity?

I think not, or I failed to notice.

[jacoblandes]

The later events of the Bible have more reliability than the earlier. Even some New Testament events are hearsay and legend. But the absolutist mindset of "believers" demands that all of Scripture must be true or none of it can be. The mature stance is to admit that some of it is true and some of it may be true, but that need not sabotage and destroy all that one believes. Even if the Bible is not true, why should that stop one from beliveing in God and practicing virtue?

[ancienthebreworg]

Excellent points, thank you.

[ChristianIce]

" Even if the Bible is not true, why should that stop one from beliveing in God and practicing virtue? "

let me improve it:

Even if the Bible AND god are not true, why should that stop one from practicing virtue?

[fastfashn]

Historicity?  WTF?

The Vampire Lestat is real then, because New Orleans exists?

[kvtassel]

I've been a doubting thomas on the bible but found the proof I need. You need to be a skeptic that wants to believe. I studied evolution, archeology, this video and so on.... for 2 decades. I'm satisfied. Some out there are neverending political debaters. My only guess is that they'd rather blow something up than create anything useful.

[32933ad]

great vid 5 stars. i will admit i have looked into it and the Scriptures also have so scintific truths in them. Job 26:7-8 and Lev.17:11. check them out. science has proven what is said in them to be truth.

[lespauls61]

Bible is NOT a historical document if the bible is a historical document then so is moby dick

[ancienthebreworg]

Rather than just making a blank statement with no content, why not comment on the evidence presented in the video. Do you agree or disagree with the evidence presented and why?

[acerimmeh]

Thank you for taking the time to compile this great list of historical evidence for the bible, I thoroughly enjoyed it :-)

[ancienthebreworg]

In the case of the Iliad, it was once believed to be a complete fabrication, including the city of Troy. But since its discovery, it is now shown that the Iliad is "in part" a true story. Did the Trojan Horse actually exist? We don't know, it may or may not have. As I stated in the video, we can know that the Bible is "at least in part" an historical document. I am the first to admit that there are still many people, places and events that have not yet been verified, yet.

[JohnLArmstrong]

As I've said, legends, mythology and works of openly admitted fiction are typically based on real people, places and events. Zorro was set in post-revolutionary Mexico, so should we say it's "in part" a true story? Wild, Wild West, the recent movie, featured President Grant, who was real. Spiderman was set in New York, a real city. I say we need more before we start using words like "in part a true story".

[ancienthebreworg]

I think there is a big difference between an ancient document and a movie. When the author of the ancient documents, which have come do be known as the Bible, wrote their texts, were they writing fiction or non-fiction? personally, I see no reason to assume they were works fiction.

[JohnLArmstrong]

QUOTE: "personally, I see no reason to assume they were works fiction."

How about all the unlikely numbers and the contradictions with what we know of history? Just to cite one example, the biblical armies of David dwarfed the combined Roman Legions several times over.  Another example, the Jewish-Egyptians went from 70 to over a million in four generations. Jesus was born before 4 BC AND after 6 AD.

At best, these are lies and exaggerations. This is not a reliable historical document.

[ancienthebreworg]

I can't speak for the other examples as I have not studied them, but this one I did, extensively. I do not believe it was "millions," but "thousands." The phrase "600,000" in Hebrew is כשׁשׁ־מאות אלף. The word אלף (eleph) can mean thousand, but it can also mean family. With this interpretation it would be 600 families. This translation fits best with the text.

[JohnLArmstrong]

The 600,000 were the men only. The women and children were in addition. Assuming a 1:1 ratio, generous since the male infants were killed when Moses was born, this is 1,200,000.

I've done the math. For this figure to make any sense, each woman with each of the four generations would need to be constantly pregnant with twins.

[ancienthebreworg]

I don't think you understood my last post, the Hebrew text can be translated as "600 families", not "600,000 men".

[JohnLArmstrong]

Wow, then every translation I've read has missed that one. There's not even a footnote in my New Oxford Annotated Bible. Can you refer me to a translation that got it right?

[ancienthebreworg]

No, but I can show you a verse where the exact same word אלף (eleph) is translated as "family" - ...Oh my Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my **family** is poor in Manasseh... (Judges 6:15). Only Jewish tradition attaches the meaning "thousand" to the word אלף (eleph) in Exodus 12:37 (probably to show how great a nation they are) even when it contradicts the evidence. This traditional translation was simply carried over into the Christian Translations as well.

[JohnLArmstrong]

Using your logic:

The Iliad tells the story of the fall of Troy.

We've discovered that Troy did, in fact, exist.

Therefore, the Iliad is a "historical document" that offers an at least partially accurate account of what happened.

Reality: Legend, myth and even outright fiction draw from real places, people and events. What you need to do is provide evidence for the Flood, the Tower of Babel, Exodus, David's Empire, etc.

[ancienthebreworg]

Actually, there is extra-Biblical sources to confirm the flood and the tower of Babel. Almost every ancient culture around the globe has a similar, and sometimes almost identical, account to what is found in the Bible.

[JohnLArmstrong]

QUOTE: "Actually, there is extra-Biblical sources to confirm the flood and the tower of Babel. Almost every ancient culture around the globe has a similar, and sometimes almost identical, account to what is found in the Bible."

Yes, many of them older, like the epic of Gilgamesh. Is it more likely a global flood occurred against all contrary evidence or is it more likely these stories were copied from other tales?

[ancienthebreworg]

Because these flood stories are so prevelent throughout the world, and as you stated previously, legends and myths are based on facts, we can be pretty certain that it is based on an actual historical event. Was this "flood" global or regional is debated, even among Biblical scholars.

[JohnLArmstrong]

QUOTE: "Was this 'flood' global or regional is debated, even among Biblical scholars."

"Global or regional" is a very important distinction. Floods happen all the time. There's nothing supernatural about these events. The question is, did a man named Noah gather animals onto the arc to prepare for a global flood which killed all other living things on the earth?  Did he then repopulate the earth?

[ancienthebreworg]

I personally hold to the local flood theory and the ark was for his family and livestock, clean ones being the oxen, sheep, goats and the unclean being the camels and the donkeys. There is scientific evidence of the Black Sea region being cataclysmically being flooded thousands of years ago as documented by Robert Ballard.