DANIEL DENNETT - On the Appeal of the Brights Movement

[goldsilverandiamonds]

CULT.

[WayneMummy]

I'm a dim. Proudly.

[freethinkerdangerous]

1) It's condescending. It assumes that theists are, in contrast, dim. It's not what you believe that makes you smart, it's why you believe what you believe. There are plenty of theists that are bright. Acquinas for one.

So 2) just because you're an atheist doesn't mean you're bright.You can be an atheist out of bad reasoning just like you can be a theist for bad reasoning.

We shouldn't need incentive to be critical thinkers.

I think Hitchens was right in God Is Not Great. It's cringeworthy.

[M1ssMyr1ad]

@freethinkerdangerous I think just like the opposite of Gay, (when the term was first used for homosexuals) is not Sad, or Glum, but Straight. Instead there is a new opposite for Bright used in this way - Super. Those who believe in the Supernatural are Supers - not a negative term, just different. Gay may have started out condescending etc but its a term that has helped a LOT of people out of oppression and helped them find a new, true identity. Same for Brights, I think.

[tacojuan]

@freethinkerdangerous how is this incentive to be a critical thinker? from what i can tell this is a framework for people who already have critical thinking and would like to commune with other like minds

[AgentA2628]

idk about the term "bright" i am an atheist and I would fit in as a "bright" but it seems rather condescending and it's a good thing i am not the only one, hitchens thinks the same

[radurambo]

I like this guy

[fredriknorand]

if you know the reasons for not believing in any god, you are bright

[Juefawn]

@fredriknorand You can make anything into a god. What are you even talking about?

[fredriknorand]

@Juefawn because religious people are idiots

[Juefawn]

@fredriknorand Sure, but that's just because of conditioning. Take any bright or Atheist and indoctrinate it. You only would out grow it, because of alternative views. If I had never read Darwin, I would still think the earth came about in seven days.

[gamester57]

if you don't like the name or the philosophy start your own group and quit complaining!

[phlewis86]

isn't this just another religion? I am sure that is not what was intended but that is what is looks like.

[JackBlair2]

When I see a gathering of "Brights," I see mostly white people.

[croscream]

@JackBlair2

Maybe that is because colored people never needed an realistic out look to survive on the col tundra's and forests of Europe and so developed along the lines of a communal-religious society?

[JackBlair2]

@croscream Ok, Kipling.

[croscream]

@JackBlair2

You have nothing else to say? Then don't waste my fucking time by making me respond back!!

[JackBlair2]

@croscream No one can "make" you do anything.

[croscream]

@JackBlair2

Stop trying to make me respond back.

[Juefawn]

@JackBlair2 That's false. Talk to the people in Africa that are made poor. I think people can be made to things, because some people know how others will react.

[JackBlair2]

@Juefawn They are made poor by bad government.

[vassilli0s]

The 'brights" movement makes atheists look fucking stupid. What the fuck is wrong with "atheist?"

"the subtle elitism here is uncanny"

subtle? yeah.. it's about as "subtle" as a black guy in a synagogue.

[FranciscoPadilla]

@vassilli0s

In the case of people who have a naturalistic worldview (as opposed to supernatural), the word atheist is not entirely accurate because there are atheists who, in spite of not believing in deities, can have supernatural beliefs: superstitions, Astrology, homeopathy, spirituality, etc.

[croscream]

@FranciscoPadilla

Or the kinds of people that believe that everything is vibrations and consciousness and if we just vibrated enough in unity, the world will become a better place full of lolly's and ponies. Those people could be atheists and not believe in God, but they also believes in vibrations.

[croscream]

@vassilli0s

If you think that reality is infinite, or are open to the possibility that the universe is a pocket-universe created by an alien (species) of uninmaginable power, then the atheist label might seem inappropriate. Agnostic would be better.

[tha1ne]

i think this movement is incredibly arrogant. By trying to label those who hold the naturalistic worldview as 'bright', one is essentially calling all other worldviews as not bright. The subtle elitism here is uncanny.

[Saerain]

This is why it came to be that it's not Brights versus Dims or anything like that, but Brights, Supers, and Murkies.

The point, I think, is:

1. That these terms are less academic and more 'fun,' for the many people who need things to be fun (don't look at me).

2. That each term is considered appropriate by those to whom the term applies.

3. That each term could only be considered derogatory by those to whom the term doesn't apply.

[croscream]

@Saerain

Imagine a reall gay man saying '' you know, you all, you christians are just supaaaahhhh''

[Saerain]

See Dennett's own delineation of this at AAI 2007: watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE from ~0:40:00 to ~0:46:00.

[croscream]

@tha1ne

Well, by calling everyon from a European descent white, you imply that everyone who is not white is black, which would be a subtle racism, where it not that we are not allowed to think that black skin color is negative. I guess in the future being dim is just as positive as being black.

[Jamaleen]

It's for that reason that the Brights movement is characterised as a constituency of individuals, rather than as a society with prescribed ideas to be embraced. I would never have become a Bright if I had felt that anything in it sought to take that independence away from me.

For someone with a naturalistic world view, it's just a pleasant change to identify with a term that's not a- or anti- anything.

[lepolemicist]

One of the most brilliant aspects of atheism or agnosticism is the fierce independence. Do you honestly want to take that away?

[croscream]

@lepolemicist

It depends: It depends if you think we will stay a minority, or one day become the majority, if we stay the minority then one day a religion might come along and fuck up our lives, if we become a majority then our movement can fracture along political/economic lines and a bright movement will fail. Well, i think we need to try the bright movement in case we stay the minority.