@MrLindenson I have listened to Bieber's "Baby" and read the lyrics, a song I did not know before I read your comment . It is about a 13 year old's love story. It has almost nothing to do with the "suffering of our time".
It is also the case that Bartok's music in this video fails to communicate the suffering of our time. But I think that Shostakovich's and Beethoven's music do.
Man these are beautiful. The first one is especially badass. If I ever have a little boy, I'm going to teach him the first one and have him play it at his first grade piano recital. That should give Mary and her little lamb a run for their money.
@rationalistx LOL @ anyone who compares Chopin to Bartok. That's like comparing Vivaldi to Babbitt. "Mere technical jangle": do you understand what purpose an 'etude' serves? "No melody at all". Incorrect. You should build yourself a time machine so you can leave the 19th century and familiarize yourself with the 20th century aesthetic.
Dopo Gyorgy Sandor, solo Zoltan Kocsis è il migliore inteprete delle opere per pianoforte solo di Bela Bartok. Nessuno ha questa precisione sonora, dinamica e ritmica, su una scrittura così complessa e piena di difficoltà trascendentali della tecnica pianistica del 1900 !!! Evgeny Kissin sarà così abile ???
You cant really bring dimensions into this because i can easily say that there are so much dimensions. and therefore all of the modern artists are geniuses, Including Justin Bieber!!!...... Thats how you sound. Justin Bieber isnt a genius, but someone will come out and defend him
Let me just put this out there. There are so much people in the world. If someone was to put all of his music out there for someone is bound to like it.(That's you guys)
I cant believe you guys dnt get what im saying, Here let me write a piece with letters
Bass :A#, C#,F#,C#,A#, D#,G#,C,G#,D#, C#, D#,F#,Fb, Eb, D#........All Sixteenth notes. .....If i keep this going for but just change the chords and treble rhythm...
regardless of what anyone says, there's a melody there, and beautiful music. bartok heard it, and wrote it, so it's there. he didn't waste his energy writing music he didn't like. try and find it. its not in any major scale, thats for sure
Remarquable interprétation de ces études de Bela Bartok vraiment très difficiles. Très peu de pianistes actuels ont cette vélocité et éclat sonore, ce piqué qui détache toutes les notes sans user trop de la pédale. On est vraiment sous le charme.
@futballos I don't know about the premiere, but he mentioned in a letter nearly twenty years later that he couldn't play the etudes. I'm just quoting Classical Archives here:
"However, in a letter written nearly two decades later, Bartók admitted to a friend that "I cannot play the three Etudes. I haven't played them—ever or anywhere—since 1918." While it is unknown why Bartók could not play his own pieces, this fact certainly testifies to their extreme difficulty."
@g3org33r3 what do you like? you can't just jump into 20th century music. Follow the progression and you will find a way to enjoy it. It's not the most directly "pleasing" stuff on first listen to the untrained ear, but there are so many ways to appreciate it and music like it. Personally, I find these particular pieces exhilarating. Even a grown man who has never drunk will find a sip of the finest scotch appallingly unpleasant...for a time.
possibly, but i can't think of any...they're all pretty different....these pieces are sort of like Prokofiev works...but prokofiev is actually less dissonant than these etudes most of the time. these pieces are harsh, even by bartok standards...they're like his violin sonatas...he probably composed them around the same time
@Snafuski Well I'd like to know how you go back to the lower octave with that! You can maybe get away with 4-5, or if you're feeling daring just do both notes with 5.
@Haeronthegreat probably is 5-5 (or 11 in the left hand).... but to get them that even as Kocsis... But you're right.... getting back down or up ain't easy.... and it's a little more than an octave if I am reading correctly....
Incredibly effective renditions, the best since Paul Jacobs' Nonesuch recording back in the day (which I still prefer for his use of rubato, especially in #2)
Kocsis is so phenomenal. This is one example of his phenomenal technique and polish. Another good one is his recording of the original version of the Rachmaninoff Sonata No. 2. Unreal!
Szervusz. These are three beautiful pieces that we can enjoy thanks to the mastery of such a great interpreter of Béla Bartók's music like Mr. Kocsis. Bravo!
@PSNDemonwing You're missing out. It may be hard, but learning to understand and appreciate this music is as rewarding as anything else. Macaroni and cheese tastes good to most people right away, but it is far from the pinnacle of enjoyment that food has to offer...dig deeper.
@Sveccha93 its funny how people view things. you have to realize that this song was just made to be hard. the person that made it clearly didnt care if it sounded good or not. all in all. If someone makes the shittiest song ever. someone is bound to like it. Its something that is true in every aspect. We are all different. In which case i believe this person just wrote songs to make hard songs. I can do the same as this person. just write random music. and someone will like it
@Sveccha93 thats how fucked up our world is. No one knows the persons true intent. just like poems. I can write some random shit and someone will be like. wow just wow. you can tell that this person was_blank_because of _blank_ when actually the poet just wrote random shit
@PSNDemonwing I appreciate the postmodern rant but a couple things you said are objectively false: 1) Bartok was using random notes or just trying to be difficult: wrong; there is a very complex and sophisticated system at play, much more cerebral than any tuneful romantic period music you seem to be hung up on 2) People who write dissonant music don't care how it "sounds": this is simply ignorant, not in the emotional sense, but you just don't know enough about music theory/history to say this!
And besides, you maintain that it's a matter of taste and then proceed to say that you don't like certain things because they don't "sound good" and conclude that they are random, and therefore "deserve" not to be liked. That's just not fair.
@Sveccha93 and you are the perfect example of what the world of today is. You are still supporting something that you cant admit. Someone is bound to like the song. If it does turn out that this writer actually came into deep thinking about this song. Thats good for them. But even so, it cannot match that of the true geniuses.
@PSNDemonwing If you're going to attack me as "the problem with the world" you should at least address the errors I pointed out in the above post, and have the decency to explain what I'm "supporting that I can't admit". Bartok was every bit the genius of most composers you are referring to - he made choices that you don't prefer in this one period of his composition, but I assure you, they were made consciously and you are quite simply uneducated on the matter. Don't forget, this is old stuff!
@Sveccha93 i bet you if someone made a hard piece, extremely hard piece you wouldnt care how it sounded as long as it seemed difficult. then you would bring false information along with you stating why it is that i decided to write an extremely hard piece. Go to hell for not being able to fully understand what you are saying. I know that theres a possibility that he did make choices based on his melodies in his mind. but even so, his melodies cant match that of geniuses
I'm sorry you want me to go to Hell for asking you to respond logically. You're using words, phrases and ideas without defining them (for example what is a "genius" in your usage? Why is "melody" suddenly the criterion in this debate?) You also seem to know nothing about Bartok or music theory and history aside from choosing things that you find immediately pleasing melodically....if that is your definition of genius than you are being a tad narcissistic!
@PSNDemonwing Really, I do see what you are saying but in this case you are wrong. The language of melody and harmony among true artists is always evolving. In the 20th century, tonality and tradition were being openly questioned and toyed with. To truly appreciate this takes a lot of effort - but to brush it all off as "not as good as Chopin" is about as juvenile a reaction and unworthy of Bartok's genius and immense efforts in music. It's unkind, and it's your loss.
@Sveccha93 evolving isnt always good. i gave Bartoks music a chance but the music that he hears in his mind is a new kind of music. i do understand that. Im just saying evolving into this music doesnt mean it takes more to appreciate. But seriously if your thinking that Bartoks music is more evolved and takes more to appreciate i can easily start writing music of this kind. Many people will hate it. Some (like you ) will say that theres a purpose why it sounds so disgusting
@PSNDemonwing You can't easily write this. That just proves that you have no idea how it was created. The main problem with your point is that not everyone will agree that the things YOU like sound "good" and not everyone finds THIS to sound "disgusting". I personally enjoy this for the rhythms and the teasingly organized dissonance. Look at Chopin's preludes in a minor and f minor....150 years ago, you could say the same things about those. I truly find these etudes beautiful, without thinking.
@Sveccha93 and you still dont understand...there are so many flaws in what your saying. 1st of all your one of the few that like this music. But thats only because in this world someone is always bound to like what many dnt. Its One of the many truths about life. No matter what you say. This truth remains there. No 2nd of all. You dnt know what Bartok was thinking. You cant prove that. Not even history text can prove that
@PSNDemonwing What are the flaws in what I'm saying? I bet you can't find one! 1) Are YOU saying that the number of people that seem to like something determines its worth? So McDonald's is the best food in the world? 2) I never said that I knew "what Bartok was thinking". But people study and analyze it and correspond with him and we know the basics of what he was doing. This piece is not random at ALL- it can be analyzed for structure. I don't need his thoughts, I have his notes and rhythms.
@Sveccha93 no. im saying even thou something sounds horrible. there will always be someone that likes it. and even yet. someone that analyzes it like you are right now.
@PSNDemonwing Yes, but some Chopin, etc. sounds horrible to some people, including me. All you are saying is that you don't like this piece, get over it! It's a matter of taste. The only argument you had was that "anyone could make this" and that is untrue. This piece was crafted with great care and knowledge. Some music is for children, some for the masses, some for weddings, some for church, some for advanced musicians, etc. etc. This is not for you, period, end of story. Go enjoy something!
@PSNDemonwing Uh...Bartok was and continues to be one of the most popular and well-respected composers of the 20th century - among *audiences*, not just musicians. Where do you get the idea that only a 'few' like his music?
If you don't like this piece, that's your business, but don't try to pretend that no one else does either. (As if that were a justification for not liking it anyway...)
@DevilsInstrument check out my channel. that was something that i wrote for two pianos. I actually tried to make a melody with tension. if i were to try to make a difficult and stupid notes like Bartok. I could easily do so
@PSNDemonwing Is melody really the only thing that matters in music? Why can't 'tension' be created with something other than melody? Why do you seem to think that this piece is just randomness?
Sorry, not buying it. I listened to your piece all the way through, and honestly, while I appreciate that it's a good effort, I found it to be far, far less interesting and well-written than these Bartok pieces. There is more than one dimension to music; I suggest you explore a few others.
@DevilsInstrument more dimensions i agree. but you see. Music like this piece of shit is what began the music revolution. now all the music that is played isnt as beautiful as classical. I find bartoks pieces to be more rhythmn than anything. No melody. all rhythmn. And i can write music like Bartoks.but i rather wouldnt. i wouldnt want to be known as that guy that made music that supposedly you have to be more wise to like.Bartok isnt a genius. He only sought rhythmn just like modern music.
@PSNDemonwing If it's a question of 'beauty', neither of us will ever convince the other of anything. I find Bartok's music to be quite beautiful; I also listen to much more extreme composers of recent times (for example Xenakis), and I find a lot of their music beautiful. It's really a question of preference. That being said, I can only hope that someday you will realize that a piece of music does not need 'melody' to have merit, even if you do not prefer to listen to it.
@DevilsInstrument thats were your wrong. You see a lot of people these days believe rappers DJs, basketball players, football players, musicians, are geniuses and have beautiful talent. While i dnt quite disagree, i do believe its not as beautiful as Beethovens Mozarts, Chopins pieces. This is something that is true. Not an opinion
@PSNDemonwing How is it not an opinion? You just said you "do believe" it isn't as beautiful. Since when was a statement of belief not an opinion, especially when you don't provide anything to support it? And what do "rappers DJs, basketball players, football players" have to do with this discussion?
My belief is that your definition of 'beauty' is restrictively narrow. Open-mindedness is never a bad thing. :-)
@DevilsInstrument My definition of beautiful is extreme greatness of its caliber. Having something be beautiful in another way is stupid. Its like a pianists not being so great in the piano but being extremely good at expressing his feelings by making faces and moving his body. Bartoks music may be beautiful to you but not to me, because im not busy looking at the pianists make faces and move all around.
@PSNDemonwing Neither am I...what does that have to do with anything?
I listen to music as pure sound. I don't see why you can't accept that something can be great without having melody - because that is what your argument comes down to. You don't like this piece because it is dissonant, it doesn't immediately please the ear, it doesn't express 'emotions' you like. Am I the one who is really busy not listening to anything worthwhile? Because it seems to me like you only listen for one thing.
@DevilsInstrument dude, don´t listen to that other guy, lol, I´m totally with you. Just because he doesn´t like this kind of music doesn´t mean it isn´t beautiful. I for example find Scriabin´s 7th and 10th sonatas extremely gorgeous, and yeah, they do have melodies, but that has nothing to do with it being beautiful.
@andresruval Glad to know someone else thinks like I do :-) There isn't really much point in arguing about this, I guess. If you can't see that musical merit does not merely stem from good melodies (as he seems to think), then...I'm glad I'm not you ;-)
@PSNDemonwing ...and since both 'beautiful' and 'genius' must be left to the whims of opinion, we will only go in circles from this point on if we continue to argue. For that reason, I suggest we desist.
@DevilsInstrument hold on. do you really find this music to be better composed and better sounding than that of Beethovens, Chopins, Mozarts, Pachelbel, Handels?
@PSNDemonwing that´s just a question that can´t be made... when you´re talking about these kind of level you just can´t, it´s simply wrong and immoral. you should ask which one do you LIKE more, not which one is "better", there´s a big difference between those 2 words.
@andresruval The question is reasonable. Your making it sound anyone can compose music. Someone can write a random piece and you honestly would say that its well written?... The answer I was looking for is no. Bartoks composing is not better
@PSNDemonwing I actually consider Bartok to be one of the greatest composers of all time (I am hardly alone in this)...so yes, essentially 'equal' in quality to Beethoven, Chopin, etc., insofar as music from such different time periods and styles of composition could be considered 'equal'. (I can't stand Mozart, Pachelbel, or Handel, the last two qualifying as hacks in my book - but that's a different subject.) How is this a 'random' piece? You still have yet to explain why it is so bad.
@DevilsInstrument Hold, Why do you think his quality of composing is equal to Beethovens? Beethoven has made some dissonant sounding pieces as well. I cant stand Bartok because he has no music in him. His music seems more rhythmic than anything else. No melody is present, everything is just everwhere. Melody is the key to music, it is what adds tension and sadness just as much as joy. a piece with no melody is like a burger with no meat or veggies(for those vegetarian people).
@PSNDemonwing Why is melody the key to music? Why? There is no answer to that question...because melody is NOT the 'key to music'. Melody is only one of probably (at a guess) 10-12 basic 'components' of music. You do *not* need a melody to have a good piece of music; indeed, there are probably thousands of excellent works out there which either do not rely on a melody overmuch or have no trace of one whatsoever. As I said earlier, you are thinking of music in one dimension only.
@DevilsInstrument like i said, i do understand that there could be composers that chose to follow a different path than to go after melodic music. But i dnt believe that those that went their own way should be considered to be as good as those who master all of the qualities of music. Basically, i have more respect for composers that wrote every type of music than those who simply spent their life making music that have no memorable parts
@PSNDemonwing Why shouldn't they be considered as good? It's not as if most composers even explore all the 'dimensions' of music. You don't hear a wide timbral variety in Bach or Beethoven, for instance. There's a whole 'component' that went largely unexplored until the 1860s, if not later. Why does that matter anyway?
It may not be 'memorable' to you...because you're listening for one thing, and one thing only...melody.
Just open your mind; you may be surprised at what will be revealed.
@PSNDemonwing Look, if you aren't even going to bother to come up with an intelligent response then I'm not going to bother to argue with you. See ya.
@PSNDemonwing how much music have you listened to by Bartok?? I can think of heaps of pieces with amazing melodies if thats what youre into exclusively. Next you'll be telling me that lady gaga's music is more valid than Bartoks because it has a melody that is far easier for you to distinguish than these PIANO ETUDES (studies for piano - not beautiful tunes to sit back and mull in a soft couch whilst sipping wine (or milk) - pieces to develop physical and musical technique at the instrument)
@TheDecadant oh wow, 1st of all. i listen to a lot of classical music. im not into a lot of modern music, im more into rock and classical over everything else. Rock has a lot of rhythmn,harmony,bass,melody, and a lot of other stuff. 2nd of all, please give me a piece that i might enjoy. and 3rd. please dnt argue im done with arguing over something that is not beautiful in the most beautiful way.
@PSNDemonwing you like what you like - thats fine. You dont like rhythmic drive, strong dissonant harmonies and emancipated melodic material - thats fine. You do like clearly delineated melody over accompaniment over various genres - thats also fine. Not everyone likes all music, and im not trying to bag you out and say you are wrong you shouldnt like what you like - all im saying is that if you dont understand why this music is so incredible, trying to contextualize it may help yourappreciation
@TheDecadant. I find Bartoks music as the prototype to modern music. Bartoks music is all over the place, and that is why so much people like it. I know why many think this music is incredible, but what im saying is that it shouldnt be considered at the level of Beethovens or Chopins since they could have easily composed something like Bartoks, all they have to do is improvise and have it be completely random.
@PSNDemonwing i have no idea about your level of your muscianship, and i understand that it shouldnt matter from a listeners perspective - Most people who love Bartok (and composers like Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and the 2nd Viennese school to name but a small few) have studied music, pretty much their whole lives. I love Bach, Beethoven, Chopin and even more so, Franz Liszt (as did Bartok - listen to the recordings of Bartok playing their music), and i hated his music too until i studied it.
@PSNDemonwing i suppose thats the problem for casual listeners and music enthusiasts - if you dont know what youre listening for, it makes it difficult to appreciate beyond the 'for its time' rather than as an isolated piece of music, irrespective of genre. When you learn a piece by Bartok at the piano you start to hear things differently and it is so amazing. His music will live on for a reason, and its not to annoy those who live in the strictly diatonic world of harmony - he was a genius.
@PSNDemonwing you are right though - there are people who will defend the mass produced, consumerist, capitalistic, 'culture industry' music of Justin Beiber because it makes them feel good (though its been proven the idolisation is an important psychological factor to one having an inclining to a particular music/s out of fear of what people may or maynot think of them as a result). I Heart Bartok and i dont care what people say about him :P
@TheDecadant Genius? i suppose so, since not everyone can compose a lot of music. But i still feel his music shouldnt be compared to Beethovens or Chopins. Bartoks music is different and now i understand that hes a somewhat genius but that he decided to take his music elsewhere rather than that of melodies. I still have my most respect for Beethoven and Chopin. Theres a reason why Beethovens 9th symphony will live on forever.
@PSNDemonwing In short, at your age please understand that there's still SO MUCH for you to learn about. In fact, one could even argue that Bartok's music, and most modern music is in fact FAR less random than the music of Beethoven and Chopin that oftentimes 'wrote itself'. I'll leave it at that. If you're truly interested in being informed and being able to argue intelligently, I trust you'll look into it more yourself. And also, PLENTY of Bartok's music will live on forever too ;D
@Dorito1118 so now my age comes to place. you must understand that age actually benefits me more, a young mind is more pure than one of an adult. and also. im out of here, you guys will never understand
@PSNDemonwing dude, i'm 20 lol I'd hardly consider my mind to be that much 'OLDER' than yours :P But what I learned during my three years of college is what I'm really saying you lack. Learning about the golden mean in Bartok's music. His use of serialism to control so many aspects of music that Beethoven and Chopin didn't even think twice about. That's what I mean. But whatever. Hopefully you'll figure that out one day for yourself
@Dorito1118 One things for sure. There are so much possibilities for everything! everything in this world could have gone differently, absolutely everything. Bartok stretched what music is and examined a different aspect to music. He didnt go the same way any other did. Neither did Beethoven did to Chopin. Everyones different. Bartoks music is the most different out of all and shouldnt be consider super awesome because of that. Thats all im saying. Goodbye
@PSNDemonwing Hey man, I never said Bartok's music is better: I just said that you shouldn't belittle it. YOU were the one who said that "Bartok's composing is not better" and that his music "shouldn't be considered at the level of Beethoven and Chopin". That's all I was arguing against. I'm not saying who's is better than who's. Just that Bartok's music IS NOT random, and that you're wrong for saying his music doesn't use melody. That's all.
@Dorito1118 alright i wont belittle it. but thats all i wont do. i still dnt think it has melodies or that its beautiful. now i just think that Bartok took his time to make different types of music
@PSNDemonwing All of the composers have there own style/way of composing music. When you compare musicians, you do not (I hope you don't) say that oh, that person's music is better than anyone else's; with music, you merely appreciate and enjoy--and because people have different interests, you cannot generalize your views into thinking that others will think the same way. For example, Beethoven's 9th symphony may appeal to a larger audience, but that does not give it a reason to be more
@PSNDemonwing respected. I just wanted to say that :) I mean, art(music) is something so broad and deep, I don't think we could define it with words, never mind trying to figure out which one is better than the other :) please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to instigate a fight here, but I just wanted to express some thoughts with you :)
@PSNDemonwing one more thing (and again, sorry for using this video as a mini forum), you mentioned prototype - im sure you like some of Liszt's music, but have you heard much of his late music? very weird and starts to push the boundaries of tonal stability - you should check some of it out - late liszt - great stuff.
@PSNDemonwing HA! How can you say that Beethoven or Chopin could have EASILY composed something like Bartok's? C'mon. The fact that you say his music is just improvised and completely random reveals your immaturity in a VERY blatant way. I see your channel says you're 16, so I'm just gonna go ahead and let you know that you should read about something like Bartok's Music for Strings Percussion and Celeste. There's almost nothing random about it, and there are PLENTY of melodies throughout.
@PSNDemonwing you have all the music in the world at your fingertips - go to itunes, select what you like and go nuts. Try to think about what was happening at the time with music around the turn of the century - Bartok creates a sound realm that had never been heard before, that evokes so much, and is also so much fun to play. I'm surprised you dont like his music if you like classical music so much - given that he was largely a neo-classicist. Cant you hear the classicalstructures and phrases?
@TheDecadant new realm? I guess. As beautiful as Beethoven's, Mozart's, Chopin's? I dnt think so. This new realm you speak is probably the realm of rhythmn. Thats all his music has while The Greats had rhythmn and melody, melodies that caught your attention so much that left you wondering what was next. Bartoks music is all over the place and i agree that he does well in making music that does that. Thats why i believe you find this music beautiful
@PSNDemonwing well then you´re just being a douchebag, how can you consider yourself a music lover? trolling on every video of this kind of music, I´ve seen you´re comments. but all right, if you want to stay in that hole, well, enjoy it. bye bye asshole
@PSNDemonwing There is harmony here, and a variety of textures and thematic materials, not to mention dynamics, articulations, etc. There are melodies in some parts as well. A piece that was 'rhythm alone' would be more like something that was written for an unpitched percussion ensemble.
this is a half rhetorical/half serious question...how the hell can someone with a normal hand (spanning say a little over an octave) even play this piece...at tempo!?!
i think bartok was confused, or he deliberatly mixed classic music together with jazz...for sheer virtuosity it's impressive, but if hamelin states i must give medtner time before his music reveals,,,then i think i must use years and years to get to understand this chaotic and often disharmonic music. it has struck my mind that bartok's music is inspirated by his many nightmares. where rach tends to have much tragedy in his music bartok sms to have predilection for dispearand mental stress hehe
I see you got much hatred (thumbs down) for this comment. I don't think you meant any ill will towards Bartok, Fist of all this is not Jazz, this music precedes the Avant-garde piano jazz that you might be referring to by many decades. What Bartok is doing here is combining unusual Hungarian scales and harmonies, with very complicated rhythms. The result might sounds "chaotic" and "disharmnious", but every note there for a reason and these pieces will reward repeated listenig.
Bartok wrote music that's a lot less percussive and more melodic. Try listening to String Quartet no. 1, The first Violin Concerto, those are early more accessible pieces. Another suggestion is the little known Twenty Seven Choruses for two and three parts, a cappella (1935) Sz.103. I think eventually you'll hear real beauty and emotion in Bartok's dissonances. Good Luck.
Oh my gosh, this was the first time I ever heard this. Absolutely disgusting and AWESOME and sick, and ridiculous. This is probably going into my list of favorite pieces. This is TOO cool!!
MESMERIZING... to listen to as well as follow on the score... Leave it to Hungarians (Bartok and Ligeti) when it comes to truly most cerebral and virtuosic compositions for the piano. Prokofiev and Ravel simply pale in comparison.
Yes, I agree, but yet Ravel and Prokofiev have such a beautiful grasp on how to construct melodies. My favorite Hungarian is Liszt, personally (though I know that makes me sound ignorant and like I haven't listened to enough music -- way to be cliched...)
He was a virtuoso but I read there was a letter he wrote sometime where he admitted he couldn't play these etudes because they were too difficult. lmao
By far the most solid performance of these stupidly hard pieces from a technical perspective... but I think they're a bit dry. Too safe in interpretation. Still very impressive, though.
Do you know any other version that has more life and interpretation? I generally feel this about Kocsis' playing but it's still very dramatic - don't know anyone else who does any better tho....?
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@MrLindenson I have listened to Bieber's "Baby" and read the lyrics, a song I did not know before I read your comment . It is about a 13 year old's love story. It has almost nothing to do with the "suffering of our time".
It is also the case that Bartok's music in this video fails to communicate the suffering of our time. But I think that Shostakovich's and Beethoven's music do.
ComtedeMonteC 1 week ago
Comment removed
ComtedeMonteC 1 week ago
Man these are beautiful. The first one is especially badass. If I ever have a little boy, I'm going to teach him the first one and have him play it at his first grade piano recital. That should give Mary and her little lamb a run for their money.
marcphilos 2 months ago
@marcphilos Why not teach your little GIRL this piece???
mikepulcinella 1 month ago
@MrLindenson
lol i so agree (radar going crazy)
80whiterice 2 months ago
@MrLindenson For some reason, I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.
Alexjr1543 2 months ago
@Alexjr1543 Sarcastic, haha. I'm really a fan of Bartok's stuff, particularly his quartets
MrLindenson 2 months ago
oaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
olivergligorov 3 months ago
Beautiful
motomambo 3 months ago
What is this etude supposed to be teaching?
jthameschoir08 4 months ago
@jthameschoir08 Co-ordination, stamina and dexterity.
712Stephen 3 months ago
Mere technical jangle - no melody at all.
Give me Chopin's studies any day.
rationalistx 4 months ago
@rationalistx LOL @ anyone who compares Chopin to Bartok. That's like comparing Vivaldi to Babbitt. "Mere technical jangle": do you understand what purpose an 'etude' serves? "No melody at all". Incorrect. You should build yourself a time machine so you can leave the 19th century and familiarize yourself with the 20th century aesthetic.
AfroDeezeeYak 4 months ago 19
@rationalistx
noob
Eradicateify 3 months ago
si ma il rallentato non ci sta secondo me dai
thewallx1x 4 months ago
Dopo Gyorgy Sandor, solo Zoltan Kocsis è il migliore inteprete delle opere per pianoforte solo di Bela Bartok. Nessuno ha questa precisione sonora, dinamica e ritmica, su una scrittura così complessa e piena di difficoltà trascendentali della tecnica pianistica del 1900 !!! Evgeny Kissin sarà così abile ???
darkblueangel1956 4 months ago
I played nº2 some years ago. I found 1 and 3 almost impossible!
mikrokosmiko1 4 months ago
1918!!
MrMaxmorphing 5 months ago
Fell off my chair!
I think I broke my Kocsis.
Kiwimagik 5 months ago 20
@Kiwimagik
Hahahaha, I laughed out loud at that one.
For the record, it's pronounced "Kocheesh" in Hungarian.
phenethylaminedreams 4 months ago
The map is not the territory.
aWorldCitizen9 5 months ago
guys what are you talking about. this looks so easy to play. try chopsticks. now there's a hard piece.
TinyYellowRainboots 5 months ago
Lol if u play this no one will know u made a mistake! Haha awesome music though
TrueShinobi17 6 months ago
Ligeti is very Bartok like!
chazinko 6 months ago
No 3 is very Ligeti like!
ym42ym42 6 months ago
Pretty awesome stuff. Not as predictable as some other Bartok music...!
ym42ym42 6 months ago
You cant really bring dimensions into this because i can easily say that there are so much dimensions. and therefore all of the modern artists are geniuses, Including Justin Bieber!!!...... Thats how you sound. Justin Bieber isnt a genius, but someone will come out and defend him
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
Im being realistic. Im a classical music lover. I love melodies overall
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
you got yourself a Bartok piece........Its that easy when it comes to Bartok
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
Let me just put this out there. There are so much people in the world. If someone was to put all of his music out there for someone is bound to like it.(That's you guys)
I cant believe you guys dnt get what im saying, Here let me write a piece with letters
Treble:A, D,C,G,F,A,D,C,B,.........QUARTER NOTE , QN, QN,QN, QN QN, QN, WN,
Bass :A#, C#,F#,C#,A#, D#,G#,C,G#,D#, C#, D#,F#,Fb, Eb, D#........All Sixteenth notes. .....If i keep this going for but just change the chords and treble rhythm...
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
regardless of what anyone says, there's a melody there, and beautiful music. bartok heard it, and wrote it, so it's there. he didn't waste his energy writing music he didn't like. try and find it. its not in any major scale, thats for sure
releasethefrogs 7 months ago
did i heard a dissonance somewhere in the first etude...?
martimtavares 8 months ago
Remarquable interprétation de ces études de Bela Bartok vraiment très difficiles. Très peu de pianistes actuels ont cette vélocité et éclat sonore, ce piqué qui détache toutes les notes sans user trop de la pédale. On est vraiment sous le charme.
jeanmarie0733 9 months ago
This is just incredible; I tried to follow the notes and my eyes are now permanently rolling.
I 'Favourited' this within the first 5 seconds
kingswitcher 9 months ago
So great that you have uploaded the scores, too. Thanks ever so much.
bertiethetoupee4 1 year ago
Truly amazing.
evolve749 1 year ago
Bartok himself couldn't play these etudes.
TheWanderingNight 1 year ago
@TheWanderingNight
Come on. He played the premiere himself.
futballos 1 year ago
@futballos I don't know about the premiere, but he mentioned in a letter nearly twenty years later that he couldn't play the etudes. I'm just quoting Classical Archives here:
"However, in a letter written nearly two decades later, Bartók admitted to a friend that "I cannot play the three Etudes. I haven't played them—ever or anywhere—since 1918." While it is unknown why Bartók could not play his own pieces, this fact certainly testifies to their extreme difficulty."
TheWanderingNight 1 year ago
First time I've listened to Bartok, not a very good first impression. What is the point of 'music' like this? Someone please explain.
g3org33r3 1 year ago
@g3org33r3 i suggest you listen to the third(?) movement of his concerto for orchestra. Its far more enjoyable than this
MultiWham 1 year ago
@g3org33r3
Think of it as a particularly exotic, bravura extrapolation from Debussy (who Bartok greatly admired) and maybe it'll start to come together.
ProgRockNerd 1 year ago
@g3org33r3 I belive the point was to make some good etudes.
semicroma 1 year ago
@g3org33r3 what do you like? you can't just jump into 20th century music. Follow the progression and you will find a way to enjoy it. It's not the most directly "pleasing" stuff on first listen to the untrained ear, but there are so many ways to appreciate it and music like it. Personally, I find these particular pieces exhilarating. Even a grown man who has never drunk will find a sip of the finest scotch appallingly unpleasant...for a time.
Sveccha93 11 months ago 2
@Sveccha93
nice comment
vkoracx 11 months ago
Fantastic!
gianpaga11 1 year ago
not my prefered period in music history... :p
lottoformulier 1 year ago
Bartok would play this? 8-I
OceanbornSWT 1 year ago
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This is idiotic 'music'.
saulboyjt 1 year ago
His music is an enigma to me^^
Surrilium 1 year ago
holy shit! What's with the chords?! It's like the piano is having a nervous breakdown!
davidovich00 1 year ago
these pieces are just amazing...so is the performance....did Bartok write anything else like this?
macxada1 1 year ago
nope
dalecampbl9 1 year ago
@dalecampbl9 thats too bad.. have any other composers writen anything remotely similar?
macxada1 1 year ago
possibly, but i can't think of any...they're all pretty different....these pieces are sort of like Prokofiev works...but prokofiev is actually less dissonant than these etudes most of the time. these pieces are harsh, even by bartok standards...they're like his violin sonatas...he probably composed them around the same time
dalecampbl9 1 year ago
these pieces are just amazing...did Bartok write anything else like this?
macxada1 1 year ago
these etudes are my style. I love its musical melodies and chromaticism.
andou7 1 year ago
While writing them he probably thought what else can I do to make it more difficult for people who will play that.
RediForKing 1 year ago
I guess that some pianists were lost in madness after trying to play that....
lePistolero 1 year ago
beautiful stuff!! What is the fingering on those repeated notes in the first one???? 5-1??
Snafuski 1 year ago
@Snafuski Well I'd like to know how you go back to the lower octave with that! You can maybe get away with 4-5, or if you're feeling daring just do both notes with 5.
Haeronthegreat 1 year ago
@Haeronthegreat probably is 5-5 (or 11 in the left hand).... but to get them that even as Kocsis... But you're right.... getting back down or up ain't easy.... and it's a little more than an octave if I am reading correctly....
Snafuski 1 year ago
It's a minor tenth, and it's generally taught L4-5-1-1, R1-1-5-4.
John11inch 1 year ago
@John11inch wooooaaahjust noticed the tenth, thanks.... I think... in another lifetime. right now I'll enjoy Kocsis at it :-)
Snafuski 9 months ago
Holy... Shit.. In.. my pants..
wevil770 1 year ago
I read, Ligeti tried to write works like Bartók. Now, I understand, why they write in the book, where I read it. :)
This is fantastic, thanks for upload!
nsmtuzh 1 year ago
This is just wonderful!
proko77 1 year ago
I love these etudes. Particularly the 2nd and 3rd.
evolsieilrak 1 year ago
oh my God, I'm not a pianist but this sound terribly difficult!
and Kocsis is a phenomenon, as always!
Rinhos 1 year ago
Incredibly effective renditions, the best since Paul Jacobs' Nonesuch recording back in the day (which I still prefer for his use of rubato, especially in #2)
mwsc04 2 years ago
Kocsis is so phenomenal. This is one example of his phenomenal technique and polish. Another good one is his recording of the original version of the Rachmaninoff Sonata No. 2. Unreal!
MrStrav81 2 years ago
Remembers me Prokofiev...
cafity 2 years ago 2
Szervusz. These are three beautiful pieces that we can enjoy thanks to the mastery of such a great interpreter of Béla Bartók's music like Mr. Kocsis. Bravo!
amundarainjavier 2 years ago
Fantastic playing of some fiendishly difficult works! BRAVO KOCSIS! Zsenialis!
sll10 2 years ago
Haha my piano teacher played this for me..
He said.. " And you thought the Chopin etudes were hard.."
Very experimental piece.
behemeth2000 2 years ago 22
@behemeth2000 Chopin etudes are hard and actually sound good. this is just hard. everyone can do that
PSNDemonwing 8 months ago
@PSNDemonwing You're missing out. It may be hard, but learning to understand and appreciate this music is as rewarding as anything else. Macaroni and cheese tastes good to most people right away, but it is far from the pinnacle of enjoyment that food has to offer...dig deeper.
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 its funny how people view things. you have to realize that this song was just made to be hard. the person that made it clearly didnt care if it sounded good or not. all in all. If someone makes the shittiest song ever. someone is bound to like it. Its something that is true in every aspect. We are all different. In which case i believe this person just wrote songs to make hard songs. I can do the same as this person. just write random music. and someone will like it
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 thats how fucked up our world is. No one knows the persons true intent. just like poems. I can write some random shit and someone will be like. wow just wow. you can tell that this person was_blank_because of _blank_ when actually the poet just wrote random shit
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing I appreciate the postmodern rant but a couple things you said are objectively false: 1) Bartok was using random notes or just trying to be difficult: wrong; there is a very complex and sophisticated system at play, much more cerebral than any tuneful romantic period music you seem to be hung up on 2) People who write dissonant music don't care how it "sounds": this is simply ignorant, not in the emotional sense, but you just don't know enough about music theory/history to say this!
Sveccha93 7 months ago
And besides, you maintain that it's a matter of taste and then proceed to say that you don't like certain things because they don't "sound good" and conclude that they are random, and therefore "deserve" not to be liked. That's just not fair.
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 and you are the perfect example of what the world of today is. You are still supporting something that you cant admit. Someone is bound to like the song. If it does turn out that this writer actually came into deep thinking about this song. Thats good for them. But even so, it cannot match that of the true geniuses.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing If you're going to attack me as "the problem with the world" you should at least address the errors I pointed out in the above post, and have the decency to explain what I'm "supporting that I can't admit". Bartok was every bit the genius of most composers you are referring to - he made choices that you don't prefer in this one period of his composition, but I assure you, they were made consciously and you are quite simply uneducated on the matter. Don't forget, this is old stuff!
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 i bet you if someone made a hard piece, extremely hard piece you wouldnt care how it sounded as long as it seemed difficult. then you would bring false information along with you stating why it is that i decided to write an extremely hard piece. Go to hell for not being able to fully understand what you are saying. I know that theres a possibility that he did make choices based on his melodies in his mind. but even so, his melodies cant match that of geniuses
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
I'm sorry you want me to go to Hell for asking you to respond logically. You're using words, phrases and ideas without defining them (for example what is a "genius" in your usage? Why is "melody" suddenly the criterion in this debate?) You also seem to know nothing about Bartok or music theory and history aside from choosing things that you find immediately pleasing melodically....if that is your definition of genius than you are being a tad narcissistic!
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 i/ll just stop arguing. you dnt seem to get it. so i/ll just stop
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Really, I do see what you are saying but in this case you are wrong. The language of melody and harmony among true artists is always evolving. In the 20th century, tonality and tradition were being openly questioned and toyed with. To truly appreciate this takes a lot of effort - but to brush it all off as "not as good as Chopin" is about as juvenile a reaction and unworthy of Bartok's genius and immense efforts in music. It's unkind, and it's your loss.
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 evolving isnt always good. i gave Bartoks music a chance but the music that he hears in his mind is a new kind of music. i do understand that. Im just saying evolving into this music doesnt mean it takes more to appreciate. But seriously if your thinking that Bartoks music is more evolved and takes more to appreciate i can easily start writing music of this kind. Many people will hate it. Some (like you ) will say that theres a purpose why it sounds so disgusting
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing You can't easily write this. That just proves that you have no idea how it was created. The main problem with your point is that not everyone will agree that the things YOU like sound "good" and not everyone finds THIS to sound "disgusting". I personally enjoy this for the rhythms and the teasingly organized dissonance. Look at Chopin's preludes in a minor and f minor....150 years ago, you could say the same things about those. I truly find these etudes beautiful, without thinking.
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 and you still dont understand...there are so many flaws in what your saying. 1st of all your one of the few that like this music. But thats only because in this world someone is always bound to like what many dnt. Its One of the many truths about life. No matter what you say. This truth remains there. No 2nd of all. You dnt know what Bartok was thinking. You cant prove that. Not even history text can prove that
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing What are the flaws in what I'm saying? I bet you can't find one! 1) Are YOU saying that the number of people that seem to like something determines its worth? So McDonald's is the best food in the world? 2) I never said that I knew "what Bartok was thinking". But people study and analyze it and correspond with him and we know the basics of what he was doing. This piece is not random at ALL- it can be analyzed for structure. I don't need his thoughts, I have his notes and rhythms.
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 no. im saying even thou something sounds horrible. there will always be someone that likes it. and even yet. someone that analyzes it like you are right now.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Yes, but some Chopin, etc. sounds horrible to some people, including me. All you are saying is that you don't like this piece, get over it! It's a matter of taste. The only argument you had was that "anyone could make this" and that is untrue. This piece was crafted with great care and knowledge. Some music is for children, some for the masses, some for weddings, some for church, some for advanced musicians, etc. etc. This is not for you, period, end of story. Go enjoy something!
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 I COULD easily write this.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Uh...Bartok was and continues to be one of the most popular and well-respected composers of the 20th century - among *audiences*, not just musicians. Where do you get the idea that only a 'few' like his music?
If you don't like this piece, that's your business, but don't try to pretend that no one else does either. (As if that were a justification for not liking it anyway...)
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument get out of here no one cares about you. seriously i can write something like this in seconds
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing OK then, why don't you do that? Post it to YouTube and we'll see just how good a composer you are compared to Bartok. *roll*
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument check out my channel. that was something that i wrote for two pianos. I actually tried to make a melody with tension. if i were to try to make a difficult and stupid notes like Bartok. I could easily do so
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Is melody really the only thing that matters in music? Why can't 'tension' be created with something other than melody? Why do you seem to think that this piece is just randomness?
Sorry, not buying it. I listened to your piece all the way through, and honestly, while I appreciate that it's a good effort, I found it to be far, far less interesting and well-written than these Bartok pieces. There is more than one dimension to music; I suggest you explore a few others.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument more dimensions i agree. but you see. Music like this piece of shit is what began the music revolution. now all the music that is played isnt as beautiful as classical. I find bartoks pieces to be more rhythmn than anything. No melody. all rhythmn. And i can write music like Bartoks.but i rather wouldnt. i wouldnt want to be known as that guy that made music that supposedly you have to be more wise to like.Bartok isnt a genius. He only sought rhythmn just like modern music.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing If it's a question of 'beauty', neither of us will ever convince the other of anything. I find Bartok's music to be quite beautiful; I also listen to much more extreme composers of recent times (for example Xenakis), and I find a lot of their music beautiful. It's really a question of preference. That being said, I can only hope that someday you will realize that a piece of music does not need 'melody' to have merit, even if you do not prefer to listen to it.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument thats were your wrong. You see a lot of people these days believe rappers DJs, basketball players, football players, musicians, are geniuses and have beautiful talent. While i dnt quite disagree, i do believe its not as beautiful as Beethovens Mozarts, Chopins pieces. This is something that is true. Not an opinion
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing How is it not an opinion? You just said you "do believe" it isn't as beautiful. Since when was a statement of belief not an opinion, especially when you don't provide anything to support it? And what do "rappers DJs, basketball players, football players" have to do with this discussion?
My belief is that your definition of 'beauty' is restrictively narrow. Open-mindedness is never a bad thing. :-)
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument My definition of beautiful is extreme greatness of its caliber. Having something be beautiful in another way is stupid. Its like a pianists not being so great in the piano but being extremely good at expressing his feelings by making faces and moving his body. Bartoks music may be beautiful to you but not to me, because im not busy looking at the pianists make faces and move all around.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Neither am I...what does that have to do with anything?
I listen to music as pure sound. I don't see why you can't accept that something can be great without having melody - because that is what your argument comes down to. You don't like this piece because it is dissonant, it doesn't immediately please the ear, it doesn't express 'emotions' you like. Am I the one who is really busy not listening to anything worthwhile? Because it seems to me like you only listen for one thing.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument dude, don´t listen to that other guy, lol, I´m totally with you. Just because he doesn´t like this kind of music doesn´t mean it isn´t beautiful. I for example find Scriabin´s 7th and 10th sonatas extremely gorgeous, and yeah, they do have melodies, but that has nothing to do with it being beautiful.
andresruval 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@andresruval Glad to know someone else thinks like I do :-) There isn't really much point in arguing about this, I guess. If you can't see that musical merit does not merely stem from good melodies (as he seems to think), then...I'm glad I'm not you ;-)
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument I like dissonant music too. But this type of dissonance isnt beautiful or genius
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing ...and since both 'beautiful' and 'genius' must be left to the whims of opinion, we will only go in circles from this point on if we continue to argue. For that reason, I suggest we desist.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument hold on. do you really find this music to be better composed and better sounding than that of Beethovens, Chopins, Mozarts, Pachelbel, Handels?
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing that´s just a question that can´t be made... when you´re talking about these kind of level you just can´t, it´s simply wrong and immoral. you should ask which one do you LIKE more, not which one is "better", there´s a big difference between those 2 words.
andresruval 7 months ago
@andresruval The question is reasonable. Your making it sound anyone can compose music. Someone can write a random piece and you honestly would say that its well written?... The answer I was looking for is no. Bartoks composing is not better
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing I actually consider Bartok to be one of the greatest composers of all time (I am hardly alone in this)...so yes, essentially 'equal' in quality to Beethoven, Chopin, etc., insofar as music from such different time periods and styles of composition could be considered 'equal'. (I can't stand Mozart, Pachelbel, or Handel, the last two qualifying as hacks in my book - but that's a different subject.) How is this a 'random' piece? You still have yet to explain why it is so bad.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument Hold, Why do you think his quality of composing is equal to Beethovens? Beethoven has made some dissonant sounding pieces as well. I cant stand Bartok because he has no music in him. His music seems more rhythmic than anything else. No melody is present, everything is just everwhere. Melody is the key to music, it is what adds tension and sadness just as much as joy. a piece with no melody is like a burger with no meat or veggies(for those vegetarian people).
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Why is melody the key to music? Why? There is no answer to that question...because melody is NOT the 'key to music'. Melody is only one of probably (at a guess) 10-12 basic 'components' of music. You do *not* need a melody to have a good piece of music; indeed, there are probably thousands of excellent works out there which either do not rely on a melody overmuch or have no trace of one whatsoever. As I said earlier, you are thinking of music in one dimension only.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument like i said, i do understand that there could be composers that chose to follow a different path than to go after melodic music. But i dnt believe that those that went their own way should be considered to be as good as those who master all of the qualities of music. Basically, i have more respect for composers that wrote every type of music than those who simply spent their life making music that have no memorable parts
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Why shouldn't they be considered as good? It's not as if most composers even explore all the 'dimensions' of music. You don't hear a wide timbral variety in Bach or Beethoven, for instance. There's a whole 'component' that went largely unexplored until the 1860s, if not later. Why does that matter anyway?
It may not be 'memorable' to you...because you're listening for one thing, and one thing only...melody.
Just open your mind; you may be surprised at what will be revealed.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument LOOK I DISCOVERED A NEW DIMENSION OF MUSIC!!!!........A,B,C,D,D,D,D,,D,D,D,D,DB,B,B,B,G,G,G,G,G,G!!!
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
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@PSNDemonwing Look, if you aren't even going to bother to come up with an intelligent response then I'm not going to bother to argue with you. See ya.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing how much music have you listened to by Bartok?? I can think of heaps of pieces with amazing melodies if thats what youre into exclusively. Next you'll be telling me that lady gaga's music is more valid than Bartoks because it has a melody that is far easier for you to distinguish than these PIANO ETUDES (studies for piano - not beautiful tunes to sit back and mull in a soft couch whilst sipping wine (or milk) - pieces to develop physical and musical technique at the instrument)
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@TheDecadant oh wow, 1st of all. i listen to a lot of classical music. im not into a lot of modern music, im more into rock and classical over everything else. Rock has a lot of rhythmn,harmony,bass,melody, and a lot of other stuff. 2nd of all, please give me a piece that i might enjoy. and 3rd. please dnt argue im done with arguing over something that is not beautiful in the most beautiful way.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing you like what you like - thats fine. You dont like rhythmic drive, strong dissonant harmonies and emancipated melodic material - thats fine. You do like clearly delineated melody over accompaniment over various genres - thats also fine. Not everyone likes all music, and im not trying to bag you out and say you are wrong you shouldnt like what you like - all im saying is that if you dont understand why this music is so incredible, trying to contextualize it may help yourappreciation
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@TheDecadant. I find Bartoks music as the prototype to modern music. Bartoks music is all over the place, and that is why so much people like it. I know why many think this music is incredible, but what im saying is that it shouldnt be considered at the level of Beethovens or Chopins since they could have easily composed something like Bartoks, all they have to do is improvise and have it be completely random.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing i have no idea about your level of your muscianship, and i understand that it shouldnt matter from a listeners perspective - Most people who love Bartok (and composers like Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and the 2nd Viennese school to name but a small few) have studied music, pretty much their whole lives. I love Bach, Beethoven, Chopin and even more so, Franz Liszt (as did Bartok - listen to the recordings of Bartok playing their music), and i hated his music too until i studied it.
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing i suppose thats the problem for casual listeners and music enthusiasts - if you dont know what youre listening for, it makes it difficult to appreciate beyond the 'for its time' rather than as an isolated piece of music, irrespective of genre. When you learn a piece by Bartok at the piano you start to hear things differently and it is so amazing. His music will live on for a reason, and its not to annoy those who live in the strictly diatonic world of harmony - he was a genius.
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing you are right though - there are people who will defend the mass produced, consumerist, capitalistic, 'culture industry' music of Justin Beiber because it makes them feel good (though its been proven the idolisation is an important psychological factor to one having an inclining to a particular music/s out of fear of what people may or maynot think of them as a result). I Heart Bartok and i dont care what people say about him :P
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@TheDecadant Genius? i suppose so, since not everyone can compose a lot of music. But i still feel his music shouldnt be compared to Beethovens or Chopins. Bartoks music is different and now i understand that hes a somewhat genius but that he decided to take his music elsewhere rather than that of melodies. I still have my most respect for Beethoven and Chopin. Theres a reason why Beethovens 9th symphony will live on forever.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing In short, at your age please understand that there's still SO MUCH for you to learn about. In fact, one could even argue that Bartok's music, and most modern music is in fact FAR less random than the music of Beethoven and Chopin that oftentimes 'wrote itself'. I'll leave it at that. If you're truly interested in being informed and being able to argue intelligently, I trust you'll look into it more yourself. And also, PLENTY of Bartok's music will live on forever too ;D
Dorito1118 7 months ago
@Dorito1118 so now my age comes to place. you must understand that age actually benefits me more, a young mind is more pure than one of an adult. and also. im out of here, you guys will never understand
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing dude, i'm 20 lol I'd hardly consider my mind to be that much 'OLDER' than yours :P But what I learned during my three years of college is what I'm really saying you lack. Learning about the golden mean in Bartok's music. His use of serialism to control so many aspects of music that Beethoven and Chopin didn't even think twice about. That's what I mean. But whatever. Hopefully you'll figure that out one day for yourself
Dorito1118 7 months ago
@Dorito1118 One things for sure. There are so much possibilities for everything! everything in this world could have gone differently, absolutely everything. Bartok stretched what music is and examined a different aspect to music. He didnt go the same way any other did. Neither did Beethoven did to Chopin. Everyones different. Bartoks music is the most different out of all and shouldnt be consider super awesome because of that. Thats all im saying. Goodbye
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing Hey man, I never said Bartok's music is better: I just said that you shouldn't belittle it. YOU were the one who said that "Bartok's composing is not better" and that his music "shouldn't be considered at the level of Beethoven and Chopin". That's all I was arguing against. I'm not saying who's is better than who's. Just that Bartok's music IS NOT random, and that you're wrong for saying his music doesn't use melody. That's all.
Dorito1118 7 months ago 3
@Dorito1118 alright i wont belittle it. but thats all i wont do. i still dnt think it has melodies or that its beautiful. now i just think that Bartok took his time to make different types of music
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing All of the composers have there own style/way of composing music. When you compare musicians, you do not (I hope you don't) say that oh, that person's music is better than anyone else's; with music, you merely appreciate and enjoy--and because people have different interests, you cannot generalize your views into thinking that others will think the same way. For example, Beethoven's 9th symphony may appeal to a larger audience, but that does not give it a reason to be more
AkLvKk 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing respected. I just wanted to say that :) I mean, art(music) is something so broad and deep, I don't think we could define it with words, never mind trying to figure out which one is better than the other :) please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to instigate a fight here, but I just wanted to express some thoughts with you :)
AkLvKk 7 months ago
@AkLvKk thanks :] i respect what you say and agree.
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing one more thing (and again, sorry for using this video as a mini forum), you mentioned prototype - im sure you like some of Liszt's music, but have you heard much of his late music? very weird and starts to push the boundaries of tonal stability - you should check some of it out - late liszt - great stuff.
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing HA! How can you say that Beethoven or Chopin could have EASILY composed something like Bartok's? C'mon. The fact that you say his music is just improvised and completely random reveals your immaturity in a VERY blatant way. I see your channel says you're 16, so I'm just gonna go ahead and let you know that you should read about something like Bartok's Music for Strings Percussion and Celeste. There's almost nothing random about it, and there are PLENTY of melodies throughout.
Dorito1118 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing you have all the music in the world at your fingertips - go to itunes, select what you like and go nuts. Try to think about what was happening at the time with music around the turn of the century - Bartok creates a sound realm that had never been heard before, that evokes so much, and is also so much fun to play. I'm surprised you dont like his music if you like classical music so much - given that he was largely a neo-classicist. Cant you hear the classicalstructures and phrases?
TheDecadant 7 months ago
@TheDecadant new realm? I guess. As beautiful as Beethoven's, Mozart's, Chopin's? I dnt think so. This new realm you speak is probably the realm of rhythmn. Thats all his music has while The Greats had rhythmn and melody, melodies that caught your attention so much that left you wondering what was next. Bartoks music is all over the place and i agree that he does well in making music that does that. Thats why i believe you find this music beautiful
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing well then you´re just being a douchebag, how can you consider yourself a music lover? trolling on every video of this kind of music, I´ve seen you´re comments. but all right, if you want to stay in that hole, well, enjoy it. bye bye asshole
andresruval 7 months ago
@DevilsInstrument Music is beautiful through Melody, harmony, rhytmn and so much other things. Not just rhythmn alone like Bartoks music
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@PSNDemonwing There is harmony here, and a variety of textures and thematic materials, not to mention dynamics, articulations, etc. There are melodies in some parts as well. A piece that was 'rhythm alone' would be more like something that was written for an unpitched percussion ensemble.
DevilsInstrument 7 months ago
and i do admit that the piece i wrote wasnt that interesting. thats because i didnt have much time to practice
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 i meant to say Now 2nd of all
PSNDemonwing 7 months ago
OMGG! x_x thats crazyy D:
pamiiex3 2 years ago
this is a half rhetorical/half serious question...how the hell can someone with a normal hand (spanning say a little over an octave) even play this piece...at tempo!?!
dalecampbl5 2 years ago
One word: Practice.
PsytranceMan777 2 years ago 3
don't think me practicing can get this good...you've got to have some sort of physical superiority
dalecampbl5 2 years ago
@dalecampbl5 Come on, Scriabin could barely reach a 9th and look as HIS stuff!
Sveccha93 7 months ago
@Sveccha93 but he was a composers...don't composers often compose stuff they can't play well
dalecampbl5 7 months ago
No. 1 is sooo... good and means a little bit about his Allegro Barbaro.
Pian0O0 2 years ago
really fantastic playing, great music, Bartok kicks it with all the others, Ravel Prokofiev; even better;
herma57 2 years ago 2
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i think bartok was confused, or he deliberatly mixed classic music together with jazz...for sheer virtuosity it's impressive, but if hamelin states i must give medtner time before his music reveals,,,then i think i must use years and years to get to understand this chaotic and often disharmonic music. it has struck my mind that bartok's music is inspirated by his many nightmares. where rach tends to have much tragedy in his music bartok sms to have predilection for dispearand mental stress hehe
solbap 2 years ago
I see you got much hatred (thumbs down) for this comment. I don't think you meant any ill will towards Bartok, Fist of all this is not Jazz, this music precedes the Avant-garde piano jazz that you might be referring to by many decades. What Bartok is doing here is combining unusual Hungarian scales and harmonies, with very complicated rhythms. The result might sounds "chaotic" and "disharmnious", but every note there for a reason and these pieces will reward repeated listenig.
iamalittlespy 2 years ago 3
Bartok wrote music that's a lot less percussive and more melodic. Try listening to String Quartet no. 1, The first Violin Concerto, those are early more accessible pieces. Another suggestion is the little known Twenty Seven Choruses for two and three parts, a cappella (1935) Sz.103. I think eventually you'll hear real beauty and emotion in Bartok's dissonances. Good Luck.
iamalittlespy 2 years ago 2
Further suggestion: Divertimento for String Orchestra.
BuckshotLaFunke 1 year ago
Kocsis is amazing.
micheldvorsky 2 years ago 15
wow!
kempff95 2 years ago 2
Oh my gosh, this was the first time I ever heard this. Absolutely disgusting and AWESOME and sick, and ridiculous. This is probably going into my list of favorite pieces. This is TOO cool!!
richivinsky 2 years ago 2
SUPERB!
musicy88 2 years ago
MESMERIZING... to listen to as well as follow on the score... Leave it to Hungarians (Bartok and Ligeti) when it comes to truly most cerebral and virtuosic compositions for the piano. Prokofiev and Ravel simply pale in comparison.
vitellia 2 years ago
Yes, I agree, but yet Ravel and Prokofiev have such a beautiful grasp on how to construct melodies. My favorite Hungarian is Liszt, personally (though I know that makes me sound ignorant and like I haven't listened to enough music -- way to be cliched...)
pmberns 2 years ago 4
The third...WOW!!!
Epogdous 2 years ago
An etude that I will surely play someday.
konzolmester 2 years ago
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No you won't! You suck!
ColonelCognitional 2 years ago
:-DDD
konzolmester 2 years ago
that page at 4:05-4:14...ridiculous
Kalen1457 2 years ago 3
great touch!
kempff95 2 years ago
My gosh...could Bartok play this?
Kalen1457 2 years ago
He was a virtuoso but I read there was a letter he wrote sometime where he admitted he couldn't play these etudes because they were too difficult. lmao
TheEarlOfDublin 2 years ago 4
By far the most solid performance of these stupidly hard pieces from a technical perspective... but I think they're a bit dry. Too safe in interpretation. Still very impressive, though.
John11inch 2 years ago
Do you know any other version that has more life and interpretation? I generally feel this about Kocsis' playing but it's still very dramatic - don't know anyone else who does any better tho....?
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