It's heartening to see that Hemingway's slander was called what it was on TV at the time, especially by such a prominent figure in publishing as Bennett Cerf. I actually love A Moveable Feast, it's beautifully written and witty, but it's dishonest throughout and features ruthless attacks on several long-dead fellow writers. Hemingway was careful to lie about them and slander them when they couldn't defend themselves, and he wasn't left around to have to defend himself. Real brave man.
Why in the world would anyone write a book about her life and need to mention Dorothy Kilgallen's eyelashes in it? And while I'm on the subject, why did Dorothy Kilgallen have to make everything about herself? She was always asking ridiculous questions like, "Did I give you a lift home from a party thrown by Joan Crawford?" The constant name dropping gets nauseating after a while. ... Ah, it felt good to get that out of my system! I love the Internet!
@spelvin214 Dorothy and Sheila were kindrid spirits and personal friends. Since Sheila was based in Hollywood, Dorothy never looked at her as a rival, especially after Dorothy expanded her column topics to include politics.
Not ideal, of course, but nowhere near as dire as it sounds. If one had to be in an orphanage there was surely no better in Britain. In actual fact, life for the children was far better than if they had been attending an elite "public school" (public in the British sense of private school) like Eton or Rugby, at least at that time.
If you're interested to find out more, google "Norwood Orphanage" or "Norwood Jewish Orphanage" and you'll find quite a bit online about this worthy institution.
To convince me that life at any orphanage was better than life at an elite public school, you're going to have to make the case rather than just an assertion.
And your own assertions which are based on little more than ignorance and prejudice? At least I have an intimate knowledge of both public schools and Norwood children's home. I can however assure you that the rampant bullying, beatings and forced homosexuality which were signal features of major public schools at that time were almost completely absent from Norwood.
And you could always show some initiative and use Google.
A comment by an old boy (something I have heard over and over again):
"Like all childhoods, my sojourn (at Norwood) entailed many happy times, as well as fewer not quite so happy. All in all, I can truthfully say that I am proud to have been a 'Norwood boy' - the standard of education bestowed on us has served me in very good stead throughout my life."
When Graham entered Norwood, her family was living in complete poverty. She would have had no chance at all outside of N. This is what Graham achieved at N: "Eight years later when she 'graduated,' she had established herself as Norwood's 'head girl:' captain of the cricket team and recipient of many prizes, including both the Hebrew prize and a prize for reciting a poem by Elizabeth Barrett Browning." Of course, Graham always had those abilities, but it is N that gave her the chance to shine.
"Intimate knowledge" is rather vague. When exactly did you attend Norwood and at which private school were you subjected to bullying and buggery? Your assertion that life at Norwood was "far better" than at an elite public school is nonsensical. And Graham's achievements at Norwood and in life can as easily be attributed to her exceptional talents rather than some special quality in an orphanage, for God's sake.
1) A lot less vague than your ignorant assertions which are generated by your obvious parochialism and sheer ignorance.
2) As I am not a centenarian it would have been impossible for me to have attended either a public school or Norwood at that time. Because of family connections with the latter and a combination of both general and personal knowledge about the former, I am, unlike yourself, perfectly able to form a rational and well-informed judgement about these matters.
3) Unless you are in favour of being bullied, beaten and buggered (never mind what would have been the fate of a Jewish child at that time in such an institution), my original assertion was anything but nonsensical. Naturally, the girls and boys at those public schools had all sorts of other advantages which would have made their lives much easier, but I was, quite obviously, talking about the lives of the children whilst they attended school.
4) I realise that comprehension isn't exactly your forte, but I if you look very carefully, you will see I make exactly the same point about Graham's native intelligence. Had she remained in a slum, however, ill-nourished and ill-educated, these talents would almost certainly have remained hidden from view.
This is why many poor Jewish parents competed fiercely with one another to send their children to Norwood, and also the reason why Norwood was compelled because of inadequate funds to only accept one child from each family.
5) There is an enormous amount online about the cruelty of both major and minor public schools in the UK. You will also find a considerable amount about Norwood. Consequently, if you wish to find out more, I suggest you head to Google without further delay.
Did anyone in YouTubia ever read this book by Shiela Graham? What DID she say about Kilgallen's eyelashes? It's hard to tell if Shiela and Dorothy are being sincere or sarcastic.
Thanks for posting. It was really interesting to hear her defend F. Scott Fitzgerald from what Hemingway had written. Sheila Graham was Fitzgerald's last love interest. He suffered a fatal heart attack while staying at her apartment.
It's heartening to see that Hemingway's slander was called what it was on TV at the time, especially by such a prominent figure in publishing as Bennett Cerf. I actually love A Moveable Feast, it's beautifully written and witty, but it's dishonest throughout and features ruthless attacks on several long-dead fellow writers. Hemingway was careful to lie about them and slander them when they couldn't defend themselves, and he wasn't left around to have to defend himself. Real brave man.
cauchamar 6 months ago
Her face resembled Zelda's when she was young.
RainbowBrite80 6 months ago
Seems like a nice woman.
thot4 9 months ago
"Kellogg's", lol
TamaraMaraLand 1 year ago
Why in the world would anyone write a book about her life and need to mention Dorothy Kilgallen's eyelashes in it? And while I'm on the subject, why did Dorothy Kilgallen have to make everything about herself? She was always asking ridiculous questions like, "Did I give you a lift home from a party thrown by Joan Crawford?" The constant name dropping gets nauseating after a while. ... Ah, it felt good to get that out of my system! I love the Internet!
spelvin214 1 year ago
@spelvin214 Dorothy and Sheila were kindrid spirits and personal friends. Since Sheila was based in Hollywood, Dorothy never looked at her as a rival, especially after Dorothy expanded her column topics to include politics.
observer9670 3 months ago
Comment removed
63utuber 1 year ago
She had a helluva life, spending ages 6-14 in an orphange for Jewish children in London and rising steadily from there.
kolst8406 3 years ago
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Not ideal, of course, but nowhere near as dire as it sounds. If one had to be in an orphanage there was surely no better in Britain. In actual fact, life for the children was far better than if they had been attending an elite "public school" (public in the British sense of private school) like Eton or Rugby, at least at that time.
If you're interested to find out more, google "Norwood Orphanage" or "Norwood Jewish Orphanage" and you'll find quite a bit online about this worthy institution.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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To convince me that life at any orphanage was better than life at an elite public school, you're going to have to make the case rather than just an assertion.
kolst8406 3 years ago
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And your own assertions which are based on little more than ignorance and prejudice? At least I have an intimate knowledge of both public schools and Norwood children's home. I can however assure you that the rampant bullying, beatings and forced homosexuality which were signal features of major public schools at that time were almost completely absent from Norwood.
And you could always show some initiative and use Google.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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A comment by an old boy (something I have heard over and over again):
"Like all childhoods, my sojourn (at Norwood) entailed many happy times, as well as fewer not quite so happy. All in all, I can truthfully say that I am proud to have been a 'Norwood boy' - the standard of education bestowed on us has served me in very good stead throughout my life."
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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When Graham entered Norwood, her family was living in complete poverty. She would have had no chance at all outside of N. This is what Graham achieved at N: "Eight years later when she 'graduated,' she had established herself as Norwood's 'head girl:' captain of the cricket team and recipient of many prizes, including both the Hebrew prize and a prize for reciting a poem by Elizabeth Barrett Browning." Of course, Graham always had those abilities, but it is N that gave her the chance to shine.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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"Intimate knowledge" is rather vague. When exactly did you attend Norwood and at which private school were you subjected to bullying and buggery? Your assertion that life at Norwood was "far better" than at an elite public school is nonsensical. And Graham's achievements at Norwood and in life can as easily be attributed to her exceptional talents rather than some special quality in an orphanage, for God's sake.
kolst8406 3 years ago
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1) A lot less vague than your ignorant assertions which are generated by your obvious parochialism and sheer ignorance.
2) As I am not a centenarian it would have been impossible for me to have attended either a public school or Norwood at that time. Because of family connections with the latter and a combination of both general and personal knowledge about the former, I am, unlike yourself, perfectly able to form a rational and well-informed judgement about these matters.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
3) Unless you are in favour of being bullied, beaten and buggered (never mind what would have been the fate of a Jewish child at that time in such an institution), my original assertion was anything but nonsensical. Naturally, the girls and boys at those public schools had all sorts of other advantages which would have made their lives much easier, but I was, quite obviously, talking about the lives of the children whilst they attended school.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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4) I realise that comprehension isn't exactly your forte, but I if you look very carefully, you will see I make exactly the same point about Graham's native intelligence. Had she remained in a slum, however, ill-nourished and ill-educated, these talents would almost certainly have remained hidden from view.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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4 continued...
This is why many poor Jewish parents competed fiercely with one another to send their children to Norwood, and also the reason why Norwood was compelled because of inadequate funds to only accept one child from each family.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
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5) There is an enormous amount online about the cruelty of both major and minor public schools in the UK. You will also find a considerable amount about Norwood. Consequently, if you wish to find out more, I suggest you head to Google without further delay.
Fenhalls 3 years ago
Did anyone in YouTubia ever read this book by Shiela Graham? What DID she say about Kilgallen's eyelashes? It's hard to tell if Shiela and Dorothy are being sincere or sarcastic.
soulierinvestments 3 years ago
I remember loving the movie "Beloved Infidel" when I was a kid. Deborah Kerr and Gregory Peck created a very compelling love story.
chalomirof63 3 years ago
Thanks for posting. It was really interesting to hear her defend F. Scott Fitzgerald from what Hemingway had written. Sheila Graham was Fitzgerald's last love interest. He suffered a fatal heart attack while staying at her apartment.
ParkerAllen2 3 years ago 2