How a Creeping Commitment Traps YOU in a Cult

[humanityandhistory]

It's really up to you what you want to believe, but it does very much seem that an organised religion, based in the world centre of sales and marketing, actively promoting mass-interpretation of scripture in the manner of the american lawyer (looking for loopholes, selective quoting of scripture over-literally & out of biblical context) for no other reason than its expansionist policies, it seems very much that Jesus would not approve of such an organisation, which mocks what was written.

[humanityandhistory]

Organised religion doesn't serve the local community, it only serves its own corporate expansion with its 'own brand' of god, packaged like a consumer product.

Organised religion based in the world centre of corporate sales & marketing doesn't appreciate a biblical term like "In The Name Of (The Law)", because American culture is far too over-literal to see it. Instead, organised religion thinks that 'The Law' has a "christian name", then it repeats this error over 6000 times in a fake bible

[humanityandhistory]

Totally missing the point, as one would expect from Organised Religion.

Branding god is what Microsoft(TM) had done to DOS(TM) and what Coke(TM) has done to cola. Watchtower(TM) mentality is just another form of creeping Americanisation of humanity.

Christianity is already intolerant enough as it is, so how can this continued systematic branding of god (shared by the whole of humanity) in any way improve mankind's religious intolerance and inter-faith relations?

Would Jesus approve of this?

[humanityandhistory]

And it's no use 000266617 trying to (mis)quote "what Jesus said", because unless one can appreciate the original langauge spoken by Jesus, and the biblical meaning, the original message will not be understood. Do you really expect the 'scribes and pharisees' of organised religion, (based in the world centre of corporate sales and marketing) to be able to interpret Hebrew in any other than over-literal interpretation of American English ? Hired lawyers.

Do you really think Jesus would approve?

[000266617]

(Continuing with my previous post) Of course Christ told his apostle to put away the sword, wasn't into wars and was for reasoning with people, so anyone following Christ wouldn't be destructive. Yes, "more tolerance, understanding, forgiveness and a desire to do less evil and more good!"

[humanityandhistory]

Wasn't Christ all about showing tolerance, understanding and forgiveness?

Aren't christians supposed to be following christ and not an organisation that selectively interprets christ's role model primarily to serve it's own growth?

Would Christ approve of such an organisation?

How exactly did Jesus address who He was praying to ?

When Jesus was asked "teach us to pray?" what was the first 2 words of the model prayer?

[000266617]

"Wasn't Christ all about showing tolerance, understanding and forgiveness?" Yes but he had a sense of Justice also and didn't belive everyone would be forgiven (read his comments to the religious leaders) "selectively interprets christ's role model" What part of Christ's example is ignored? It is an unsupported charge here and such comments must be tossed out if unsupported.

[humanityandhistory]

"What part of Christ's example is ignored? "

How about for starters, the clear, unambiguous, explicit & specific way Christ instructs mankind to address Our Heavenly Father, during His response to a direct question asked of Him: "teach us to pray"? It is the first two words of the prayer. These same two words- followers of the watchtower are in denial of. They instead replace Jesus' example with an exclusive 'brand name' which sabotages inter-faith relations & increases religious intolerance

[000266617]

Good, true point you sent me. But I submitted something to a local publication and if a writer gave your explanation to the editor (who might be sued) the editor would say a writer who doesn't check the facts, shouldn't be writing. From writing articles is where my attitude comes from and this may explain my posting.

[humanityandhistory]

Yes, it's the editor who's responsible for the writer's work & who'll take the can. It's a trust thing? mistakes are sometimes made, I guess relationship between writer / editor can get strained.

You know I was taught at school Lord's Prayer, I think it's probably the most important teachings of the christ of all. Most important part of it is that god belongs to everyone when praying (Our Father) and wish for more tolerance, understanding, forgiveness and a desire to do less evil and more good!

[000266617]

The video description reads: "I'd like to offer my sincere thanks to youtuber 'JWinCT' for his help in making this video compilation...." Is this correct? How did JWinCt help with this, or is this a sarcastic joke about him?

[humanityandhistory]

Yes that's true no it's not sarcastic. Although JWinCT calls me 'child of satan' 'ugly' 'stupid' etc... we all know it's because of the watchtower cult programming, an organisation that is completely steeped in 'name-calling', even their god is branded.

If we were in his shoes we would probably behave the same way as him. Yes JWinCT did inspire me, after having text comments conversations with him. I'm sure he's a good person deep down, I think he's a musician or an entertainer of some kind.

[000266617]

"watchtower cult programming" What do they teach, "When someone disagrees, insult them?" No, they are taught the opposite. JWct knows he is doing this on his own, and has not been taught to do it as Witnesses are taught to imitate Christ, and although Christ did say "serpents" and "white washed graves" he wasn't speaking to a certain individual. Any talk JWwin would hear and any article he reads will strongly go against what he is doing, isn't that correct?

[humanityandhistory]

"...taught to imitate Christ..."

There are so many who wish this statement was true today. If it was true, it would do so much for inter-faith relations, cross-faith sharing in worship of god together. All the JW's I know are quick to condemn any other religion as demonic, and people in it as demonised.

Jesus is supposed to be for everyone. Mediator.

How exactly did Jesus address who He was praying to ?

When Jesus was asked "teach us to pray?" what was the first 2 words of the model prayer?

[humanityandhistory]

Thank you Studiosequencer, I think the world expert you are referring to is it Steven Hassan M.Ed. LMHC, NCC?

This reminds me, if you go to Google Video and search for a video called "Strategic Interaction Approach (2003)" there is a 83 min video from him. Wind it forward to 38 minutes, and listen carefully to what he says about the Asche Conformity Study.

000266617 :-) May I suggest you do this & think about that for a few hours, before posting any more comments?

[humanityandhistory]

What the watchtower intentionally leaves out from when presenting this bible verse, is what preceded it.

It's actually a list of things not advised to be eaten. It also just so happens to have the word 'abstain' in it, which is taken out of context.

It is human nature to take increasingly 'safer' interpretations of something, i.e. the way "health and safety" attracts more and more warning signs, safety harnesses, air bags etc.

American organiZed religions do this with the bible too.

[humanityandhistory]

Now please, can we limit text comments to what the video is about please. Thank you.

[humanityandhistory]

"...were worried about the growth rate..."

Not worried about growth rate? Regular membership data collection, timesheet reports, head counts etc. Everything about following the watchtower is geared for excluding all other religions and to recruit more members.

I guess gays are not encouraged is they tend to have stronger identities and are not led easily, as well as that gays might tarnish the brand image. I know a jw who treats his own younger brother as 'dead' because of this.

[000266617]

humanity and history, you know that the bible says regarding homosexuality, so its not made up by any religion. Of course, I don't belive hatred of individuals is acceptable and anyone with such hatred is not being Christian.

[humanityandhistory]

Bible or not, I'm with you about not hating anyone, and I'll go even further saying even judging another without first walking a mile in their moccasins isn't humane.

That jw was an elder of 40+ years, his sister (non-jw) says he'd shunned his (gay) brother at their father's funeral he conducted.

That's another story, how the memory of the non-jw father had been treated with a horrible hollow empty 'watchtower funeral service'. There were children there who'd never been to a funeral before.

[000266617]

Elders have been going to a school in New York I discovered. Shunning has a biblical basis. Some people are not as good a speaker as others, and some people can't speak well at all-- but try to. I shy away from a hater, I don't care who he or she is. I mean, like.... hey, wait a minute! This has nothing to do with the video and we aren't supposed to be discussing these things! It was good to make these things clear anyway. Have a good day.

[humanityandhistory]

"we aren't supposed to be discussing these things!"

Yes I know, it's easy isn't it? to drift off topic.

Food for thought:

"Shunning has a biblical basis"

A certain practice of 'being completely covered head to toe in dark cloth with just eyes showing' has a 'holy-text basis' as well. But it doesn't actually describe this in the Ku'ran at all.

I think you'll find that human nature (especially in groups) will more than you realise, be applying a bias to how holy text is interpreted.

[000266617]

"Well what does a member of your church have to believe in order to get assurance they will go to heaven or paradise?" Christ. Believe in Christ.

Good day, sir.

[humanityandhistory]

Christ. Believe in Christ

Well praise the lord, thank god for that then, 2.1 billion christians can't be wrong, and every single one believes in jesus.

By the way this video is about creeping indoctrination, (also used by religious cults), and NOT about religion. Please limit comments to those about the video subject only.

[humanityandhistory]

"concerning birthdays"

'the early christians' also didn't consume huge amounts of fossil fuels, drive cars or watch TV. And what is wrong with 'pagan origins' anyway?, pagans today are leading the world movement to reduce fossil fuels usage, having less cars and respecting the environment.

No, the real reason watchtower doesn't encourage any special days for individuals is because systematic destruction of ego is found to increase the growth rate of the organisation, nothing else matters.

[humanityandhistory]

"..There is bloodless surgery.."

Not always. And many less 'alternatives' available before the medical establishment had been forced to respond after so many people died in hospitals for religious reasons.

(Notice how the discussion was steered away from my comments on the psychological manipulation, artificial consensus and similarities with religious cults I'd mentioned the very subject this video is about, but instead were pulled by watchtower mentality towards watchtower standard dogma?)

[000266617]

"compulsory feild recruiting activities" People are urged to do what they can, but no one is criticized if they can't. There are so many exaggerations and untruths in these postings, I'd type my fingers to the bone correcting them all.

[humanityandhistory]

"exaggerations and untruths" ??

How is your conscience? People might of read what you wrote at face value.

In watchtower church instructions to elders, this leaked document here is printed in black & white that elders shall check the recruiting time reports before sending them to HQ. If anyone falls behind a minimum hours requirement, elders are instructed to carry out 'sheperding calls' & other disciplinary measures as required.

How can this in any way be "exaggerations and untruths"?

[exjw44288]

I believe it was Job and his children who celebrated their special day, and the angels celebrated Christ's birth. There are many things that have pagan origins that even jws use today, (days of the week, months of the year, lipstick, etc). Restricting the celebration of birthdays and holidays is just another way for the cult to control its members.

[humanityandhistory]

Celebrating special days of individuals is bad news for some centrally organised beliefs, because it adversely stunts the growth of the organisation, which has only one purpose - to try and grow.

The watchtower had once attempted belief-engineering the introduction of a calender which was free of 'pagan' names. But it dropped the idea after it realised they won't be able to get their followers to adopt the new names of the week.

[000266617]

I'd say celebrating special days (or holidays )would bring in more people and growth, not less. Millions of non-Witnesses attended the Memorial. I saw people of other religions with palm branches there. I don't belive that was the purpose of the calander.

[humanityandhistory]

Here is an example of watchtower influence in action (and a unique insight into cult mindset):

I'd wrote: "Celebrating special days of individuals..."

Then the answer was: "I'd say celebrating special days (or holidays)..."

Notice the word 'Individual' I'd used was totally absent?

Then immediately after that, there is an attempt to steer the conversation towards watchtower dogma, where the conversation is more rehearsed. It's as if the person did not see all of what I'd wrote!

[humanityandhistory]

The 'memorial' is specifically used as a tool to recruit new people, it also uses peer pressure and an artifically created consensus to coerce all guests to a commitment where they each in turn reject the body and blood of christ (I believe in disobeyance of jesus' instruction)

Even a funeral service of a deceased jw there is primarily used as a potent tool to recruit relatives attending.

Both of these reject all inter-faith relations, unless the watchtower 'own brand' of god is used

[000266617]

Special days of individuals, special days and holidays are all the same thing. Notice this person acts if "celebrating days of individuals" and " celebrating special days (or holidays)" are two differnt things when they are the same. A little red herring to steer away from the point I made.

[humanityandhistory]

"Special days of individuals" Experts in destructive organised groups tell us that 'cults' (either intentionally or not) use ego-destruction techniques. For those who don't know yet, this is where individuality is suppressed and conformance to the group's 'cause' is demanded instead.

"Special events" do bring in lots of recruits (i.e. timeshare seminar)

On the flip side, a group having special days for its individuals encourages individuality, which often goes against the group's 'cause'

[humanityandhistory]

The point that 000266617 was trying to make (I believe) is a belief that there is NO difference between:

1. A group celebrating an Individual, and

2. An Individual celebrating in a group

Hmmm :-)

Interesting that "red herring" tries to slip in under the radar. Deliberate and intentional attempts to mislead is systematically practiced by cults and the watchtower is no exception. Many examples of this distorted information can be found elsewhere already. ("the devil" posts these of course!)

[000266617]

By special days of individuals I was referring to holidays. Your postings looks like it is referring to special days for people in the "cult" I'm saying it looks like we are talking about two different things. "where individuality is suppressed and conformance to the group's 'cause' is demanded instead" Yes, the military, school and on the job.

[humanityandhistory]

"the military, school and on the job"

In the military, a job, is there is less hours spent, then you come to the end of a term in it. Then after leaving, you take away from it the best of the experience for yourself.

The difference with cult involvement, is the member more often than not eat sleeps drinks 24/7 'the cause' and of course most importantly, there is NO legitimate way of leaving once you are in. Anyone who does leave is either a "DA" or "DF", whichever it is feircely demonized.

[humanityandhistory]

Yes! Now here's a situation having a striking resemblence to Asche Conformity, specially designed to create a kind of mass-hypnosis to control behaviour.

On the advert flyer there's an image symbolic of 'holy communion' shown on it. But this is a trick, as the individual later finds out for themself..

It's a filter of people, that's what it's for. Used to seek a certain 'type'.

What happens is those people with reduced bullshit-detectors are the ones who are 'buy' the product offered!

[000266617]

All I am saying is that writing "a certain world expert" without giving a name, and you saying "I think" it's so and so, and studio saying "I think" without checking facts looks bad. If a newspaper did it, it would look like a National Enquier fake piece. As soon as any thinking person sees it, they have to toss it out.

[humanityandhistory]

No one is perfect, much as I dislike to admit it. Sometimes there isn't time to research the fine details.

But isn't the spirit of a message more important than the words alone? Moot point now, since someone had helped us with details for which I guess we should be grateful.

Someone once said if a person thinks they are 'perfect', then they will have no room to accept error.

[humanityandhistory]

Noone can know everything about anything, that's why people say "I think" when they're not sure. It's because people hopefully think for themselves & not follow a doctrine they believe virtually flawless, answering all questions to all problems, and virtually does their thinking for them.

But may I ask you, with hindsight, (and seeing that google video?) do you think still saying: "he jumps to a wild conclusion...etc.." is still valid? We can delete that post if you wish and you re-word it?

[humanityandhistory]

Civilisation is steeped in good practices and customs going back to pre-christian times, a wedding ring on the left hand is pagan.

"..gifts on any day.."

It's human nature to have "special days", such as you see on the google home page, birth of a person who has helped shape mankind, such as florence nightingale or mother teresa or ghandi.

Trouble is people who shape mankind tend not to be good at 'recruiting other cult members'

[humanityandhistory]

"..Christians do is follow the example set by Christ.."

A certain church, (mentioning no names, regarded by world experts as a destructive cult), call themselves "the only 'true' christians": Instead of things like emphasising the lord's prayer, for example selectively pick out & emphasise only those 'jesus teachings' which found to recruit more members. Rigourously enforcing these 'teachings' with compulsory minimum hours, all timekeeping reports sent to church's american HQ for checking

[humanityandhistory]

Where does it say this is only applies to religious cults?

The tests are just 2 characteristics of Human Nature invloved in Cult involvement. Many more are used, especially in Religious Cults.

Leading professionals concur & anectodotal evidence identifies a resemblence to workings of religious cults, after all it's still human nature at the end of the day.

Let's ask the ex-religious cult viewers their opinion: Does this video remind you of anything about being in a religious cult?

[000266617]

Where does it say it applies to so called religous cults? Read your own writing "find their way out of bad relationships, dead-end jobs and of course religious cults such as a certain one founded in USA, mentioning no names" Again, applying this to religion stretches it. It would be unethical and bogus to apply it to religion as factors as the beliefs of the subjects is not considered and research in the video such as the Milgram study was on conformity not "religious cults" or religion.

[humanityandhistory]

People in religious cults (including suicide bomber) thinks their beliefs are so 'valid' they cannot even be questioned, while striving to conform to an ideal. Many churches create an artificial 'consensus' to conform to.

Anyway, you're entitled to voice your own opinion, but you'll find it's not shared by ex-members of destructive religious groups, or by leading world experts on destructive groups, such as Steven A Hassan (LMHC) who I'm sure will just repeat what I'm saying here

[humanityandhistory]

A certain church (mentioning no names) goes to great lengths and uses a multitude of psychological techniques combined together to synthesise a highly controlled artifical 'consensus of majority'. Individuals will find themselves being pulled towards this consensus and 'learning' very quickly very strange beliefs, while the person's ego is quickly destroyed and replaced by mindless obedience and dependency on the group.

Just ask a destructive cult expert, they will say the same as I.

[000266617]

humanityandhistory jumps to a wild conclusion, as the studies in the video were specifically on conformity in general and not religious cults. The test the people took had nothing to do with any religion,not even suicide bombers. The people following orders could be atheists or not religious. Bogus to apply to to any religous group.

[studiosequencer]

A certain leading world expert on desctructive groups based in boston,usa says the asche conform study and milgram experiment are used when he educates people about cults in general, especially religion ones. Also there is a professor of stanford univeristy whatever his name is zinbardo i think says a similiar thing

[000266617]

"A certain leading world expert" (Comedian Eddie Murphy? The posting is weak, you must admit. And there is no proof the "mouthy guy" is a JW. And if you look on this page the maker of this video with comments against the religion he claims to be in, thanks him for his help. Think about that for a few hours.

[toribaby2005]

CREEPY AND WEIRD!! For something lighter, check out my page! =] xoxo

[humanityandhistory]

interesting vids :-)

[VIDEOTUBEASSASSIN]

COOL, SCIENCE FIGURES OUT THE HERD!

[humanityandhistory]

Yeah! There's a certain american based church that uses a kind of mass-hypnosis on curious visitors turning up there after seeing a flyer invitation left for them at their front door.

The whole church starts off doing Holy Communion, but the creepy bit is.. get this... curious visitors spread out in the church find themselves hypnotized and uncapable of taking the body and blood of christ when it's handed to them, they just reject it and pass to the next person like everyone else is doing!

[JWinCT]

You, sir, are the EPITOME of evil. I wash my hands of you.

[humanityandhistory]

Wow look at this, along comes our proof... JWCT cannot present any valid argument, because it's all true, so JWCT just walks away defeated - by something as simple as plain facts.

Cults like his church think only they're the right church & all others controlled by devil & think their 'brand of god' is going favour them only

And get this: just like suicide bombers, they think they're NOT going to die but go to paradise, just like millions of jws "now living" had also thought in the 30's

[JWinCT]

Anybody ever tell you you're VERY weird?!?!?

Oh.

And ugly too!!?

[humanityandhistory]

This proof of the predictability of a cult member, brought to us by JWCT, apparently not realising youtube will eventually damage their faith beyond repair.

When a cult member has no valid argument they predictably switch to attacking the person themselves as a last ditch attempt then try to walk away defeated.

They cannot argue with the plain facts, just attack the people presenting them.

[studiosequencer]

the mouthy guy calling you "epitome of evil", it just about sums up people from his church, religious extremists who call people names, no wonder wars start, with people like that around teaching hate and name-branding things, even the god they created has a label!

[RobsStudio]

Well put together. I have heard of the shock experiment many times but have not seen it before.

[Rwssel]

nice!

[MaryStewart]

nice video! more to this?

the short-haired girl's cute too! n_n

[humanityandhistory]

TY :-) I'm researching for another video that teaches us more about human nature, and how this can be manipulated by organsisations, whether intentionally by design, or unwittingly i.e. they think they 'are doing the will of god'.

[james3v6]

This is a very good compilation.

Do you have any work concerning cognitive dissonance, or are you planing on making any? I believe that would be a good study, showing how some of these unfortunate individuals have conflicting thoughts but refuse to give up either or.

[humanityandhistory]

Thankyou, a fair bit of work went into making it, it's encouraging to hear it's appreciated.

Yes I would like to make more videos along these lines, including the role cognitive dissonance plays in behaviour modification. We saw very brief flashes of CD on the faces of the people participating as the test subjects.

There is a lot the public at large doesn't know about human nature and I like to think that people like me are helping provide humanity with wisdom and understanding.

[Mekelsior]

Then I must give you thumbs up for this one too, shivers went down when I saw the mindcontrolling simularities within the group we are not to mention by name^^ Are we really this bad? I had no idea, I guess it goes to show that we think higher thoughts of ourselves than we should. Keep up the work, untill our Lord comes, be at peace.