Words I Didn't Say - with Planet Narth's Joseph Nicolosi

[Bpers2001]

I have the perfect Dad and Mom, and I'm gay, so what could this dunderhead possibly say is my reason for being gay?

[tishaschwanger]

This guy is nuts period.

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

This proves why science and religious fanaticism just don't mix, and are actually really dangerous together.

[murakisredmoon]

This guy creeps me out SO bad !

His image feels so constructed and calcualted... like he has so much to hide.

And what about his hands and intonation ? I mean, I'm completely against stereotypes, but ... when somebody appears so "artificial", that jumps to the eye all the more. And not as "Italian expressivity", but as sth completely at odds with his projected image.

[doggygenesis]

oh great I'm an artist cause i'm gay :P....wow

[Shandy4U2C]

Wow....what an "artistic" idiot. I wish I was the lucky person who got to punch this idiot in the face. It is amazing how forgetful he is of what he says over and over in interviews.....and how childish he is. Someone should put him out of his misery!!!

[markvz]

I like the free form jazz music.  Hope that doesn't mean I'm gay...

[dmsni]

@Black Wolf, I don't want to argue with you. I have my view on what he meant and why I think he became fed up with the interview. I didn't write to offend you. Others are glad that Narth is doing the work they are, and have been helped by them. They are not doing anything unethical or wrong.

[ocmozfan]

They barely say the word "artistic" and he throws a melodramatic fit and storms off. How totally non-effeminate of him.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@ocmozfan

Not only is he an "artist", he is a drama queen, as well.

[funk7000]

You guys are really looking for everything under the sun to discredit NARTH...how desperate. This video is really reaching. Many homosexuals tend to share a common temperament where they take things to heart more than the average person...this also can or may result in artistic/creative behavior. So another words, that common temperament can be both a blessing and a curse.

[SaxonBrit]

Hand manurisms at 1:00

[Subatomic1000]

Christian agenda hiding behind psychology, sociology, and psychiatry. Another manipulative tactic for brainwashing sheep. This so called "doctor" can't even defend his method; he instead has a hissy fit and walks out of the interview. What a coward. It's very easy to criticize him because he's full of shit!

[MsFlexxy]

Me- Transgender

Me- Not shy at all

Me- Had a great bond with my father and did lots with him

Me- Had not such a great bond with my mom as i had with my father

My father- Was a manly man

My mom- wasnt over protective or over involved at all

Me- Tried to live my life the way that Nicholosi tries to shove down peoples troath... "how you should be living your life".

Me- It made my live a living hell

Me- Transitioned and couldnt be more happy as the woman i should have been

Nicholosi- is full of BS

[BlackWolf4830]

@dmsni You're a fucking dipshit. Stop putting words in Dr. Nicolosi's mouth to get him off the hook. He was acting defensive, and being immature. If Dr. Nicolosi felt clarification was necessary, he would have said "Yes, I said artistic, but only in the sense of effiminacy". But he didn't. He flat out denied that he said artistic, and walked off the set.

[senjara]

This guy is more drama queen than Ru Paul and Boy George put toghether...Its a good thing that over the years more and more ex patients of his are coming out of the closet...

[zellballen]

Wow. Dr. Nicolosi appears to be very...uh. . .'artistic' himself

[BjoernarEricSven]

@zellballen

Yeah, I got the same idea: Nicolosi is a self hating closet case.

[ffairlane57]

NARTH is a fraud. They would rather persue their own agenda than accept common facts.

[funk7000]

@ffairlane57 Agenda? They are an organization of psychotherapist who provide help for ppl who WANT IT! It's their right to pursue and get help. And NARTH has had a lot of success that has been supressed by the media thanks to (ready) a political agenda

[BlackWolf4830]

@funk7000 No, they don't have an agenda. They just deliberately distort the research of top psychologists and sociologists to support the arbitrary conclusions that they have chosen.

Just like you seem to have this arbitary conclusion that they help people. It seems like you have a confirmation bias: you believe that NARTH is helping people, because it appeals to your preconceived notions that homosexuality is a disease.

[BlackWolf4830]

@funk7000 NARTH distorts research to fit their agenda (yes, agenda). But don't take my word for it - just ask Dr. Lisa Diamond. She called NARTH out for their selective interpretation of her research, ignoring that the conclusion she came to.

Yeah, the people want this so-called "help". And if it weren't for people like you, who either wilfully believe the crap spewed by these organizations, or are incapable of thinking for yourselves, they wouldn't feel the need to seek "help". Shame on you.

[barbtube01]

LMAO.........George Rekers is now NARTH's Poster Boy! It wouldn't surprise me to see Joseph Nicolosi in the same boat as Rekers in the near future!

[ishmahal1111]

what a drama queen; i think he is turning gay!

[guerriero667]

This is a motherfucking crook; don't forget he comes from Sicily, the land of the Mafia.

[BjoernarEricSven]

And look out for what does with his wrist (as demonstrated by Nicolosi...).

[Raffzeee]

@Sidney38SNJ He is not saying these qualities make you gay! He has never stated this. He is pointing out the fact that a lot of homosexuals have certain personality traits. It might not be fasionable to say that but most people who have enough homosexual friends, when being objective, can clearly see that there is a great deal of similarity between homosexuals in terms of character traits. I am going to change wether the world likes it or not. Most of the world secretly respect me. Grow up gays!

[JPRamon68]

Joseph, you are such a dipshit. keep your beliefs to yourself and stop fucking up other people lives due to your hatred

[havenization]

My Gaydar goes off on this man big time , you can ususally fimd most hypocrites preaching at the pulpit You can try and distract Joe but I see You

[Raffzeee]

Well, I am artistic. Quite a fucking lot of us are artistic. And sensitive, introverted etc. He's not talking nonsense.

[Foxy300ZX]

I hate jesus people!!!

Yall have a disease that is worse than any other...

You believe in something that affects others and try to force it upon them and then claim them to be faithless, moralless and wrong

Well I say this to you all Jesus Kids... F**K You!!!!

Get out of the society with people who just arent going to sit down and say that this stupid book explains everything in the universe. ONE BOOK?!?!?! REALLY?!?!?!?!

[snapesluv69]

That is not a nice thing to say :( I beleave in God and Jesus. But I don't hate gay/bi people... I don't hate anyone (well I only feel sorry for those that hate). I'm friends with gay people, I even forget that they are gay, because I just see them for the humans/people they are. So please dont judge all people who LOVE God and Jesus. We are not all the same.

[DoctorShumacher]

great vid

Thanks for bringing us Dr. Nicolosi

I fully support the rights of homosexuals who WANT the cure, to be able to get it

NO ONE who doesnt want it, should be forced into it

[fdzwes]

What!?

This guy is not saying "Artistic" is a precursor for homosexual behavior.

"Is that something we should look out for?" Man, I would feel like punching that creep reporter in the nose.

That triade model does not recommend the child become non-artistic. Instead it is one characteristic abused by malfunctioning parents.

Is that it? That's the only "word web" you caught this guy in?

This Doc doesn't need any more publicity. Gays are loaded. He'll do fine w/o it. Kids are great!

[whoo689]

These NARTH idiots really need to stop pretending to be legitimate. All they're doing is cherry-picking any old paper or publication for "evidence" of their anti-gay views. It's like when racists used phrenology to "prove" that blacks are inferior.

[Carlusotobus]

You're the idiot for calling an honorable organisation as a bunch of racists.What's wrong with wanting to change and becoming a husband and a father.

[jackthayer]

well for one we can't change

[LifterWill]

How does one say, in French, that "Dr" Nicolosi is full of BULLSHIT and an angry little tiny man with a huge and childish temper? I am sure it would sound a lot better than what I am thinking of him right now. What an asshole.

[cancertoof]

Nicolosi is fighting an uphill battle against a hystrionic gay-affirmative movement.

He's a solid guy and he's changed my life.

[darliegoddess]

"Nicolosi is fighting an uphill battle against a hystrionic gay-affirmative movement."

He's a narcissistic AHOLE who tries to brainwash children with BS about god . He blames mothers for paying attention to their boys and turning them gay. Excuse me but SCREW YOU AND MR N ! Histrionic ! What a scumbag ! Oh, and there is no god. Enjoy !

narthplanet, SUBSCRIBED !

[abe357xxx]

yes he said artistic, so what!

[planetnarth]

"I didn't say artistic!" --Joseph Nicolosi

[riqymartin]

It's easy to criticize Nicholosi, but what are you offering instead ? nothing ! Narth is not perfect, but they started from zero , and develop a program that has a success rate of over 50%...be reasonable !

[planetnarth]

Mr. Rickymartin (how ironic, have you viewed our dating video?)

On planetnarth we offer nothing of value to you. That is why so many people like us.

Thanks for being part of the 50%.

[LifterWill]

Aw heck .. as long as we are recklessly throwing around figures that don't mean a pile of shit, why not say that NARTH has a success rate of, say, 90%. The vast majority of us know otherwise!!

[BlackWolf4830]

@dmsni Yeah, because it's not as if presitigious organizations of psychology, sociology, and psychiatry tell people exactly not to do encourage people to try and change themselves.

"Discouraging' implies that homosexuality is a bad thing. You seem to believe that people who tell me this are crushing my hopes.

Fuck you.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@dmsni

Could there be a reason that scientific establishment considers NARTH pseudo science?

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven Yeah, political correctness. Also, it's not all of the "scientific establishment" if by that you mean the scientific publications. Most universities also have politically engaged special interest groups or affirmative action folks who filter out anything that doesn't fit their agenda. The science behind NARTH is pretty solid and getting better, you should look behind what those assumed pundits say since they are the ones lackin evidence and lying all over the place.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Scientific establishment as in "not fringe science".

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven @BjoernarEricSven That's just slogan, name calling. The validity of the work pointing to sexual orientation fluidity and the effectiveness of religiously mediated sexual orientation change efforts is pretty solid for anyone who looks at it with the *same* standards applied in standard research and therapeutic methodologies.

If anything, the fringe science is what you have when it bends over to what's politically correct and the pressure of LGBT advocacy groups *everywhere*.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

It's funny that you mention that because, as the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists etc. tirelessly point out, NARTH and its positions don't live up to exactly those "standards applied in standard research and therapeutic methodologies".

Even Robert L. Spitzer who is often quoted by the ex-gay movement to support their claims admits that change of sexual orientation is extremely rare.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven Again, slogans. I said the SAME standards, the ones you quoted and entrusted with those statements are riddled with LGBT activists, whether homosexuals themselves or part of Special Interest Groups and they are BIASED when analyzing the data, demanding a lot HIGHER standards to be convinced. Look into the data NARTH presents to question those claims, easy to see. Spitzer isn't the first or the last, there are wider studies available. Even if it's not common REAL CHANGE EXISTS.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

So, NARTH's anti-gay activists are reliable, the scientific establishment ist not... Very convincing!

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven You're escaping the subject. NARTH isn't "anti-gay", they're a scientific organization very much interested in assisting, with evidence-based knowledge and services, those in the gay community who wish better. You don't know more than that and name calling doesn't work for long, I already explained that politics, NOT SCIENCE, plays the highest card in these "establishments", who keep changing. SOCE are ethical if you're ignorant of that fact, all they do is "warn against it".

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

NOT A SINGLE major mental health professional organization has sanctioned SOCE and most of them warn against it.

The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that NARTH's positions are NOT supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish. The APA stated that homosexuality is stigmatized on political or religious grounds, instead.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven Again, slogans: it's what they SAY TO THE PUBLIC as people with SSA attempt to represent themselves. I already told you it's POLITICS, not science. READ THE SCIENCE: what is shows is that SSAs aren't fixed in all people and can change. It means that the CLIENT has the right to choose for himself. DON'T STIGMATIZE THE CLIENT'S RIGHT TO TRY AND ACHIEVE CHANGE!! NARTH members and OTHER social scientists have been tuning ETHICAL approaches and RESULTS WILL IMPROVE! :)))

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Your layman's assessment doesn't change the facts. They are not on your side.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven I'm clearly less of a layman than you on the subject, meaning I'm on the side of the factual truths. I'm well aware politics isn't on my "side" of the issue, but science is. I'll just wait for it to be too obvious and have them keep changing their stance. The "side" I'm on, by the way, is of those who attempt to clarify the developmental causes of same-sex attractions, sexual "orientation" fluidity in general, and the client's right to self-determination that supersedes them.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Nice try to white-wash the systemic devaluation of gays as "support" of their "self-determination".

Placing those who disagree with you under the blanket suspicion of bias doesn't change the fact that the science community by and large doesn't support NARTH's positions. Your claims are just that: claims, not proof.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven You don't understand that the victimization less accounted isn't of LGBT affirmation, but of people who want to change and are told that they shouldn't pursue it.

It's not a blanket suspicion, I can tell you quite clearly who and where these people are. You mentioned the Royal College of Psychiatrists, well they have a «Special Interest Group in Gay and Lesbian Mental Health» that doesn't represent people who wish to change because they are ACTIVE HOMOSEXUALS. There's the bias

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Pointing out that NARTH's charlatanry is based on ideology rather than science doesn't qualify as "victimization" or bias.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven There's no charlatanry, you're just trying to be offensive once again.

It appears that you can't discuss this without convoluting the issue and you surely aren't apt to discuss science here. There's a lot of science to present, apparently not enough to impose itself on the practical homosexual activism of gay rights going on in the political arena, also present in professional associations. Those people who want something different than SSA for themselves are victims of it.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Yes, I can (almost) see how the truth must be offensive to you, obscene, an abomination even. You can rant all you want, call everybody who opposes your point of view biased, but the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences, the health and mental health professions remains that homosexuality is a normal and positive variation in human sexual orientation and doesn't need to be "cured" (victimized by charlatans).

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven There is no charlantry in NARTH, so you're being offensive when you use that word. They obviously strive to keep it strictly professional and scientific. They have kicked out people who aren't up to standards several times.

A bias is a predisposition to a slant. Biases run rampant in institutions when it comes to homosexual issues. It is what it is.

Homosexuality isn't always positive or normal, far from it. Some people are distressed by it and do not want it for themselves.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

NARTH's premise that homosexuality is a disorder that can be cured, their reasoning and their methods are in direct opposition to scientific consensus. That seems to be the very definition of a quack: "a fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill" or "a person who pretends, professionally or publicly, to have skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or she does not possess; a charlatan." (Random House Dictionary)

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven You misrepresent NARTH, they have stated often that they don't need to see homosexuality as a "disorder" that needs a "cure". Rather, «homosexuality is an adaptation that is distressful for some people». Don't LIE, please read: narth.com/docs/addresses.html

There's a growing understanding of the need to respect and offer therapy for ego-dystonic same-sex attractions as shown by the recent ethical guidelines of the CA Ass. of Marriage & Family Therapists, refusing to ban SOCE.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Though NARTH's website goes out of its way to avoid calling homosexuals "disordered", this is merely an exercise in semantics. Nicolosi and Socarides have always maintained that homosexuals suffer from an arrest of normal development. So much for not pathologizing homosexuality. They never considered it to be equal to heterosexuality. Denying their disapproval would be a lie.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Though the CAMFT do not condone banning SOCE, "the board of the San Francisco chapter of CAMFT wants to clarify that it is unethical for clinicians to recommend or support treatments that seek to alter a person's sexual orientation or mode of gender expression. Rather, we believe that therapeutic treatments should be aimed at helping clients come to terms with their sexual orientation and discover authentic modes of gender expression rather than try to change them." see: fcamft.org/

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven That board is going directly against itself. They'll keep talking.

One can only consider homosexuality equal to heterosexuality on political terms. Anthropologically, culturally, that idea is nothing but a fad I'm afraid, but one powerful enough to criminalize all opposition. The effects of such a worldview contrary to common sense and ancestral human experience (i.e., to consider something other than the natural family normal) are yet to manifest themselves in its fullest.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Yeah, oppressors usually claim to do the sensical thing. "Common sense" often can be described as ramdomly despotic.

Going against itself? You mean just like NARTH on one hand distancing itself from pathologizing homosexuality the same time they pathologize it?

Finally, we have made some progress: You admit that SOCE are based on an ideology that doesn't consider homosexuality an equally valid "alternative", but something inferior, something to disapprove of.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven My last message wasn't about SOCE, it was about the subject of "equality", which is part of your demands. I see no need to satisfy your demand: things are different and it's ok for them to be different. But in some countries people are being put to jail for saying they favor heterosexuality. So this is reverse discrimination.

I think the quote on SFCAMFT's site was made before this decision. They were also some of the main proponents of the ban that got denied. That's all.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

It's on SFCAMFT's website.

Name me one country where heterosexuals are put to jail for being heterosexual. You just pulled that out of your ass. Even if it were true, does one injustice justify another?

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven «I think the quote on SFCAMFT's site was made before this decision.» I saw the site, they still seem to be LGBT zealots completely at odds with what CAMFT has now defended in ethical terms.

This is about "equality" again. When you make it legal to say that homosexuality should be accepted as equal to heterosexuality you get countries jailing the parents of children who don't want them to hear that in sex education classes. There's currently 53 of them in Germany alone.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

What a ridiculous speculation that those voicing opposition to equality would be jailed.

Funny that you consider SFCAMFT "zealots" because they don't follow CAMFT's decision. NARTH is "at odds" with all of reputable science.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven When was the last time in any developped country that a LGBT-affiliated person was put in prison just because they mentioned what sort of attraction took over their sexual drive and gender identity?

This is taking place in Germany *today*. Of course it's not just homosexuality involved in it, but all of its moral underpinnings such as the lack of a basis for a legitimate context where sexual expression is appropriate. What they teach is "whatever feels good, it's who you are".

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

"Moral underpinnings"? Morality often is completely random. One legitimate principle remains, however: the question of harmfulness.

The answer that science presents: homosexuality is not dysfunctional, it is normal, SOCE are based upon dubious, unproven theories, and possibly harmful because they foster a negative self-image.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven No, you are mistaken on what SOCE is and how things work. It's not at odds with reputable science, you don't seem to know how studies work and rely on interpretation and replication. NARTH promotes mainstream psychotherapies used for many different reasons. The negative self-image is brought in to the therapist's office by the person, never inflicted as you suggest. The experience of knowing and understanding oneself may always bring distress, just like with any other subject.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

You seem to forget that it isn't my assessment of this topic, but that of the health care and mental health care community. It is what THE EXPERTS say. You can deny it all you want, but facts are stubborn little things.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven I quoted "53". As long as you remain gullible about popular sources, dominated by consumerist and politically correct perspectives, you won't get far on controversial subjects, especially those that embarass modern democracies. Not many people care to make headlines about the persecution of christians.

You're also gullible in your understanding of science; I already reported sufficiently on the facts BEHIND STATEMENTS. Facts are more stubborn than statements, so hang in there.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

No, you generalized that opposing your point of view equals bias. That's not proof, it's just another one of your claims.

Christians being persecuted? Don't be such a drama queen!

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven We aren't at the club, no queens here. You lost track of reasoned discourse because you won't step out of your hole. I'm not sure if I can blame you for not having heard about persecution of Christians. But you can surely expand your worldview if you're persuaded to browse the information at intoleranceagainstchristians.e­u or to Google stuff like - Freedom of Expression A Gay Man Decries “Gay Rights”.

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

"Reasoned discourse"? This from someone who, on a whim, calls fringe science reliable and reputable science biased, someone who resorts to quoting websites with a tabloid-like disfavor for fact-checking, someone who seems to consider discrimination acceptable as long as it is based on Christian beliefs but not aimed at them.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven It must have taken you years to produce that sort of rhetoric. Well done, it's winning the public eye, hopefully not for long.

[Portubed]

@BjoernarEricSven You are really a one-sided partisan if you haven't heard of the dozens of people being jailed. Even though I quoted a number, you denied it as "ridiculous" and didn't even bother asking if there was some truth to the claim. Such ignorance will evidently keep you from making accurate statements about reality, especially realities different than your own. Here's some news (delete commas): charismamag(.)com/index.php/ne­ws/30354-parent-jailed-for-den­ying-kids-sex-ed-classes

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Portubed

Exactly where did you cite any numbers?

Your link didn't work, so I googled it. I found dozens of conservative Christian websites reporting on it, but not a single independent one, and not a single german entry, whether by conservative websites or otherwise. You seem to have a penchant for unreliable sources.

[funk7000]

@riqymartin They're not reasonable, because they are products of extensive Pavlonian style brainwashing and indoctrination. We're talking about major "hive" mentality.

[MattFrame]

@riqymartin, of course, honest people will acknowledge the truth: that NARTH does NOT have a rate of "success" at all. A few folks, buckling in to religious indoctrination and social prejudice, delude themselves into thinking they can repress their innate homosexuality, and they lie about doing so for a while, but in no way does this qualify as any sort of success. Blacks and Jews can deny their race or heritage too, it doesn't make them any less black or Jewish.

[rodgierad]

Hmmmm...

I know some seriously NOT artistic gay men-

And a shit load of NOT artistic lesbians-

...could this whole theory be a pile of crap?

[malechi2008]

Lets hope he sees this as well - what a hypocrite!

[Jacksonholenativ]

Joseph Nicoloisi is an absolute asshole and incredibly childish!

[BjoernarEricSven]

@Jacksonholenativ

... and "artistic", I bet.