FM versus D-STAR in weak signal

[GoneWithTheTobacco]

Just get a bhi DSP, walla, noise problems solved, no need for an expensive D-Star radio anymore.

[CT4RK]

Hi Slamdvw. Of course you can use D-STAR in simplex. D-STAR is not a repater exclusive mode.

[slamdvw]

Im looking into getting a D-Star rig.. can they go simplex and still be digital or only through repeaters?

[OK2BCK]

this looks like 208 to me, how is this a Dstar demonstration?

[CT4RK]

@OK2BCK

Hi

This looks but is not!...this radio is a IC800H

[MrKennnyj]

Not really ham radio you may as well use eqso hamsphere msn or you mobile phoneand the audio quality is awful sounds like a robotic voice

[VA5LF]

@MrKennnyj Yea, it's totally not ham radio. It's not like they're using only RF to communicate over 100km or anything. You may not care for it, but it's still ham radio.

[tkocou]

Don't like D-Star? OK, everyone has their likes and dislikes. No need to be rude about it. The funny sounding voices just take time to get acclimatized to the sounds. I speak from experience.

I enjoy both FM and D-Star. Nowhere is it laid down as law that you have to give up FM just to go to D-Star. Just how silly can one be thinking something like that?

APRS / D-Star - think of left and right hands, while each can do a job, working together they can do so much more!

[BlackGoldEstates]

awful sound quality on that door stop radio i cant see why anyone would choose over fm, at least with fm you can understand what he is saying

[freeon1]

Excellent comparison. D-Star rules. The guys with rude comments are not technical enough to understand this is the wave of the future, They said ssb sounded funny compared to AM... Look what they are using now. I love D-Star and prefer to keep those rude people off the networks. Remember D-star is a mode...not a computer. If you are not tech savy do not buy a D-Star radio, you need a little technical ability.

[MrKennnyj]

lets face it D Star is not amateur radio its voice over a computer and the quality of the rx on this D Star QSO is very bad indeed

[RayAir1]

They tell you digital is better just to sell you new radios. I have used many different digital radios in the course of my work (iDEN, VSELP, AMBE) and they all sound funny with a slight warble and echo.

They just want to sell you a new and more expensive radio.

[jpiramirez]

The difference is astounding! I hear good opinions of D-STAR but I'd have never guessed it was this clear.

[lkjhgfddddddddddsamn]

Good stuff. Luddites kill me. I'll bet they bitched when we moved from spark gap to tubes to transistors, too.

[kb4iuj]

If they want us to buy into this digital stuff they need to price these rigs for like $100.00

[kb4iuj]

If they want us to buy into this digital stuff they need to price these rigs for like $100.00

As what improvements are there going to be going forward ? I would imagine in their 5, 10 and 20 year plans their technological window most of the stuff is currently on board these rigs. Hence, price these few radios at a low price point and grow this medium, instead of waiting for everybody to jump on the bandwagon, which sometimes takes forever.

[m0rjc]

Interesting. Theory would say that digital should suddenly start breaking up and failing once signal quality dropped below its minimum level. I don't know if it has any mechanism for scaling back its data rate as conditions become worse. (If not, it sounds an interesting idea to experiment with. Feedback would be a problem).

I've worked with a similar mode - DRM in the form of EasyPAL. That needed quite a good signal. Could we use data only over dstar? I think only the voice part is patented.

[luther349]

@m0rjc it uses a pretty low data rate aruldy. it also is still compatible with anlong modes.

[luther349]

d-star is awesome in term of ham being brought up2date. full data modes range limits are gone. why is d-star not being jumped on is due to the older gen of ham users killing there own hobby threw being stubborn. but with the ham anti ad rule the net ability is conserd outside the rules. hence a stupid ban in euro. even thow it should not apply to web data. in essence the old folks in euro used a rule that was made before the web age.

[thebakerman1]

Very nice. Wouldn't mind having D-Star capability at all, as there are several folks using it where I live, and there are a few repeaters using it as well.

P25 is also popular but It really depends on where you live. Obviously in my case D-Star is in use so that's what I'd love to have (actually I'd love to have both D-Star & P25 but that's asking WAY too much!!

[G0YAP]

If D Star is so fantastic and the way ahead..why have Yaesu, Kenwood, Alinco etc not jumped on the D Star wagon?? They are all going the APRS route.

[CT4RK]

Hi Ian

D-DTAR is only another way to comunicate. fantastic or not is a question of each view point. I have D-STAR, but if you ask me if I like more than analogue modes, i tell him that no. For me, analogue modes are unbeatable in all aspects. I know that o lot of "digital fashion" is drive by "lots of money" and not for a pratical side. You can see on my other videos how much I like the old analogue modes like amplitude modulation! But any way I have D-STAR...Why not???

73 from CT4RK

[GoneWithTheTobacco]

@CT4RK Just get a bhi DSP then and call it a day, I have and its fantastic :o)

[ilovenbcnews]

I Think a lot of it goes back to the fact(?) that icom has exclusivity rights to the technology and moreover the firmware right now, that may change over time. That is one reason also why its still pretty expensive to get into.

[bmmcwhirt]

@G0YAP Kenwood actually has D-Star radios just not in the US as D-Star is catching on slowly here because of the closed and proprietary voice codec used. There are rumors that Icom also had a deal with the paten and chip manufacture to be the only ones in the US to buy the chips. Only a rumor. APRS is entirely different that D-Star. APRS is only short messages including weather and GPS tracking. D-Star has a similar function but pure digital communications including voice ad data transfers.

[ThePiratemonkey68]

@G0YAP i must agree since last year maybe year befor icom has d-star but the other ones dont and i also believe that yaesu should have had it becuase d star and yaesu are both made in japan (correct me if im wrong but thats what i know what my yaesu says on it)

[BlackGoldEstates]

@G0YAP aprs is best

[BlackGoldEstates]

@G0YAP aprs is best and i would stick with fm anyday at least the dont sound like daleks

[dasrael]

@G0YAP what does APRS have to do with Digital Voice?

[WilsonHines]

@G0YAP Probably because Icom owns the technology. That might have a lot to do with it.

[m0vts]

I have done many simlar tests, DV is much better for weak signal work. A freind and I had to run 100w FM to be reliable, instead we can use 15w now with no problems.

[pimbadoti]

digital  era muito mais clara

ex pz5jw

[phardcare]

d-star such awfull sound i think i stick with analogue at least you can understand whats been said without it sounding like a darlek

[TheJoePepper]

@phardcare Are you kidding? The D-star was the 2nd half of the video and is clearly better sounding.

[truffleshuffle777]

@phardcare you spelled "Dalek" wrong. btw, it sounds nothing like the Daleks.

[MrD0740]

D-Star sounds terrible. I would prefer the noisy, analogue way . Sounds much more like HamRadio !

[luther349]

@MrD0740 people like you are why ham is a dying hobby. anytime someone makes some evolution to ham the older gen cry's abought it. d-star is a net enabled band thats able to push much further ranges then the aging systems people are currently using. if you in range on a d-star tower you are wold wide due it its net roughing ability threw its towers. that means i could talk to you in whatever state your in. not just the locals.

[MrD0740]

@luther349 people like me do have big antennas to reach every place on earth without any help by the internet. Let's talk again in case of emergency when all systems incl. the Internet are down and not available. I hope this will never happen but it's not impossible. D-Star and all other modes that depend on foreign nets can not be future of ham radio. Let's talk about ham net. I am not the kind of man who closes his eyes to new technologies.I look forward to things that make sense to our hobby

[luther349]

@MrD0740 d-star will still work being it can also do analog radio as well. my point was more aimed at the euro ban of d-star they are slamming the door on new tech. as i said d-star can sill do analog as well as point to point meaning even if all the towers go down it can still talk to other hams in range as well as use a network of anlong towers. the net part of d-star get people who likes tec into the hobby as well as no need for a huge tower too talk to the world.

[MrD0740]

@luther349 nevertheless I think I don't like it. It is a dead mode without any static crashes and background noises. When there's a static crash or another interference on the frequency DV will only interrupt and you don't know why because the signal meter still shows you acceptable signalstrength. On the analogue way you hear the interferences and you know why the signal is not clear. Know what I mean? And the worse thing on DV is the audio which makes hams sound like drunken people. Terrible.

[luther349]

@MrD0740 well as i said you can kick it into analog mode if dv is acting up. but i cant say i ever had to. as the video shows it normally still works even when analog is weak. i pick up the manchester repeater witch is a good 50 miles away without issue.

[MrD0740]

@luther349 well,understand me, please.I don't have any problems with that mode if it will exist parallel to any other modes like FM or SSB for example. But some hams want to convince other hams of that mode that it will be the future of ham radio and the analogue way will no longer exist. That's pure nonsense I think. HamRadio has so many possibilities and all of them should exist parallel and every ham should decide for himself what's best for him. If DV replaces the analogue way I will quit.73

[luther349]

@MrD0740 i don't think dv ever would kill anlong. i prefer it others don't.. the more advanced data modes can work as a advantage in a emergency full net access etc. in a world where everyone is connected it can get more then sstv and bbs out to the people that need info. files high rez pics video and so on. but as i said it can do those modes as well. its a addon rather then a replacement.

[MrD0740]

@luther349 but first let me say thank you for that this discussion turned to be a serious and very interesting one. It's a great pleasure writing here and to discuss these things. We all have a wonderfull hobby and we should agree and be united. This is what makes us Hams strong. But now let's go to my answer to your last post underneath this post.

[qapqsl]

Excelente contato! 73´s de PY1DF.

[NightSailor]

Carlos, Many thanks for putting on this demonstration for us. 

73,

Conrad, N1EE

[ten8goa]

No comparison. I know which one i would choose.

[pedrocalixto80]

bem ... fantastico, fiquei fascinado pois ainda nao entrei em contacto com um equipamento desses.

[max2950]

Great !

But i'm somehow missing the QRM's... :D

[VE7TKO]

Although I don't know the language that was being used, the analogue to digital comparison was very good. This display of D-STAR is a good comparison; no matter what language you speak. Keep up the good work.

[CT4RK]

I dear friend VE7TKO

The language is portuguese. The QSO was between me and CT1FZC, our friend Freitas, that is about 120km way from me. We had used a power of 5 watts, and 22 elements beam at my side, and a vertical Diamond X200 at the CT1FZC side. I had out beamed my beam from CT1FZC in about 80º, for put the signal at the SQL open level. Also in mobil operation the D-STAR surprised me.

73 from carlos Mourato

CT4RK

Sines - Portugal

[ballm0use]

cool language