Your Agenda Insight: Animal Rights and Wrongs

[pfreddyp]

@kristopheraugust Yes, that is an option. Privatization works in the sense that those interests are owned and therefore, the incentive exists to protect those interests. It's just a shame that that seems to be the only answer. Whereas, we all receive enormous benefit from the oceans and one can't even begin to put a price on that benefit. It should be managed by the public, for the public and that includes the seals.

[pfreddyp]

Here's a scenario to ponder. Humans fish cod in the North Atlantic. Seals eat cod in the North Atlantic. The seals no when to say when, we don't and therefore we have practically fished out the cod. What do you do?

Manage the fishery better and aggressively restock the cod or, kill the seals for competing for your food source?

[pfreddyp]

Let me re-phrase my point on honey bees. If we humans don't respect the honey been to the point that it doesn't survive then we humans won't survive. So, it's in our collective interest to protect the honey bee.

And who's to say which animals we can do without. Nature is so chaotic that if you lose one species it could tip the scales on a dozen more species.

[TheFlameoftheWest]

So I guess that Mr. Peterson agrees with Kant when in his "Lectures on Ethics" (1779) he wrote "But so far as animals are concerned, we have no direct duties. Animals...are there merely as a means to an and. That end is man". I disagree.

We may not have any DIRECT duties to them but to morally condemn and have strong anti cruelty laws are essntial to the development to civil society. If a person thinks torturing a dog is okay then what do think that same man would be willing to do to others

[pfreddyp]

I like Jordan Peterson. Having said that he is slightly mistaken on one count here. Animals can't reciprocate those rights? I say slightly because one must recognize the distinction between 'can't' and 'don't.' When was the last time an animal violated YOUR rights?

Does a honey bee have rights? It is in our common interest to grant certain rights to a creature for which we rely on so heavily for our very existence. We've been walking all over their rights for decades and blissfully ignorant.

[XKS99]

@pfreddyp

Isn't a raccon that is tearning apart your roof violating your property rights? Shall we give rights to tornados and hurricanes as well then?

[pfreddyp]

@XKS99 Nope, never had a raccoon tear apart my roof. No animal has ever violated my rights. I'm sure it happens though. More of a nuisance than violating YOUR rights, though. As for tornadoes and hurricanes; what are you talking about? What the hell kind of leap of logic is that from what I wrote?

[XKS99]

@pfreddyp

A nuisance? What if I smashed the windows of your car/home? Would you go tralalalala "oh it's just a nuisance". Please. Raccoons are doing what their instincts make them, just as the laws of physics dictate the behaviour of tornados. It is equally ridiculous to extend rights to animals as it is to tornados. Human beings are capable of reason, hence they have rights. Abusing animals should be discouraged of course, because of the dehumanizing effect it has on people.

[pfreddyp]

Most human being are capable of reason, this is true. You just happen to not be one of them.

[XKS99]

@pfreddyp

I guess that's your (and to be honest very typical of your type) way of conceding the point.

[elicitwildly]

@XKS99 Great points.

[pendulousphallus]

You appeal to Rousseau you're automatically my bro.

[pendulousphallus]

Dogs have cognitive capability comparable to a toddler. Fun fact. (Not sure if actually true.)

[Rationalific]

I don't think that anyone is saying that we should have full voting rights for rabbits, snakes, and shrimp. I think you are obfuscating the point and putting words in other people's mouths to the point of absurdity just so you can continue your way.

No. It's more like, "You shouldn't have the right, just as a human to take a baseball bat to the skull of a stray dog." But, to you, dogs have no rights so that's fine.

200 years ago, you could substitute "niggers" and "injuns" for "animals".

[XKS99]

@Rationalific

I think it's shameful that you're comparing minorities to dogs and worms.

[Deadmansparty2002]

This really is a great perspective on the subject of animal rights. Very much appreciated.

[elicitwildly]

How refreshingly bold and true. Thank you.