Architecture In Motion - Ornette Coleman

[dzigavertov1]

One of the most regressive voices in this debate was Jazz critic Stanley Crouch who dissed both Ornette and Miles and promoted Wynton as the keeper of the jazz flame - those who are not aware of this should read his article on Duke Ellington in the New York Times some years ago - for some of us, jazz has always been about innovation and does not belong in a museum, the first step towards entropy and death....

[cavaleer]

@dzigavertov1 Crouche is a douche. Jazz, like Americans and America, is about creativity but not just being different for the sake of being different. I applaud Coleman's boldness because it's a classic American trait, esp. in Jazz, even though I don't like his work. There is a "pocket" to Jazz based on specific proportion, symmetry and timing just like any other form of art or form of Life. When you reject proportion and symmetry you get non-music or noise. That's the challenge really.

[dzigavertov1]

Who is Wynton Marsalis???

[cavaleer]

I agree with his point about architecture but he misses the point about the various idioms of dance. They, like architecture, stand upon a foundation, a tradition, a grammar and language, or more specifically, STRUCTURE. If you throw away the structure you are left with chaos, the opposite of freedom. What he calls categories are actually traditions and languages. Still love his bold spirit though.

[BlacknWhitesAlright]

@cavaleer Ornette Coleman's music is no more without structure than a pile of branches and twigs is without structure. Perhaps you'd rather look at the wood still on the tree, and that's fine, I suppose - but if that wood matter was really structureless, it'd be a goo of some kind, not arranged into twigs and branches.

[cavaleer]

@BlacknWhitesAlright Nice point and analogy but the difference between the tree and music is that music, at least most music, is played to connect with the listener. If your audience can't make sense of it, they can't connect to you. The tree doesn't really give a damn. If Ornette played for his ears alone it wouldn't make any difference. However, I respect and applaud his boldness and creativity- two classic American traits, even when taken too far.

[BINKIE2000]

Ornette bends me straight.

[decus69]

Guess' he' didn't clone himself as a Parker wannabe!

[philg505]

dancing is kinda wack but the music is nice

[chauntzu]

Brilliant!!! Ornette has had so much crap directed at him from the mainstream jazz community and jazz education community...and yet he remains true to his vision, to the sounds in his head!

What has Wynton created to match this???

[Bluesnswing]

You are misinformed. I don't know of any publication or school that doesn't give Ornette proper respect.

And what the f**k does Wynton have to do with this? Wynton bashers would be a lot more convincing in their argument if they didn't mention him 100 times a day, often when it's completely irrelevent.

[chauntzu]

Now , now...aren't we a happy person filled with negativity today. BTW, when did you become so omni-present that you know what is written in every publication and what goes on in all institutions of higher learning. Maybe for you the experience you describe is valid...but surely your experience is not everyone's.

Ornette has been bashed in print as well at some institutions of higher learning.

As far your comment about..."the nameless one"...the fire he draws is of his own making!

[jashughes16]

Well actually, I am in school for jazz performance and my professors give Ornette mad props. I love most of his stuff. Although I would certainly say it's an acquired taste. Stop arguing and just listen! If you don't like what someone is doing then just move on. That's what i say...

[geoffstockton]

I love Ornette but in Wynton's defence: He's created music that a broader array of people can relate to and I think that counts for something. Again I see the value in both guys and wouldn't put one over the other.

[glassbreaker5791]

@chauntzu being a jazz student and thus at least a bit aware of the "jazz education community", i really don't know what you're talking about. every teacher i've ever had loves ornette coleman and considers him among the most seminal figures in jazz history. even classical scholars tend to love ornette - some composers see his innovations as the point where jazz "caught up" with classical in conceptual sophistication. in the 60s, he took shit. now? there aren't many people left criticizing him.

[epistrophy68]

Zappa once said that writing about music is like dancing about architecture. Leave it to Ornette to fill that gap!

[jfunkfinger69]

epistrophy68 Zappa was a genius, nice quote.

[retsofnalanosaj]

I believe it was Thelonious Monk that said that. Great quote nonetheless.

[deadzior]

none of them

[awesomewelles90]

@retsofnalanosaj nope definitely zappa

[retsofnalanosaj]

@awesomewelles90 I respectfully disagree :P

[awesomewelles90]

@retsofnalanosaj then you're a cunt

[retsofnalanosaj]

Haha.....and you are brilliant. Did I mention charming? Yes indeed.

[awesomewelles90]

@retsofnalanosaj suck my massive schlong

[retsofnalanosaj]

@awesomewelles90 ahahaaha....internet growth formula huh? i'll pass.

[awesomewelles90]

@retsofnalanosaj don't lie, are you gay?

[retsofnalanosaj]

@awesomewelles90 You'll never know, but you wish you did....don't you

[awesomewelles90]

@retsofnalanosaj answer the question and don't lie!

[MSilberman]

@epistrophy68 I thought Thelonious Monk said that?

[deepwatertree]

Brilliant...thanks for sharing it.

[shivabala9]

Is this performance available on DVD for purchase?

[burdinus]

"they came out of the New York Jazz Loft scene"

FWIW, I need to correct myself...they were PART of the N.Y. Jazz Loft scene in the '70s, but came out of the AACM and CCC groups in Chicago...again, FWIW :)

[burdinus]

"And the "string trio of NY," proved in 1979, that Strings in jazz, are valid."

Strings have been valid in jazz for a long time, with names like Venuti, Grappelli, Nance, Pettiford, Carter, David Baker, Abdul Wadud, Ramsey Ameen, and many others.

Any interesting group originating in the '70s was the Revolutionary Ensemble (Leroy Jenkins, violin; Sirone, bass; Jerome Cooper, drums) - they came out of the New York Jazz Loft scene and were strongly influenced by Albert Ayler and Cecil Taylor.

[burdinus]

Very interesting...I have "Skies of America" and "Forms and Sounds for Wind Quintet (Great London Concert)" and have wanted to hear more with these instrumental settings...thanks for posting this.

[ribonucleic]

Charlie Parker also thought that working with strings would earn him respect. That also resulted in work that is universally considered inferior to his jazz output. Pay attention, guys.

[nakim55]

Bird loved his recording of "just friends." I guess Bird could not judge his own playing? Why is Ornette still hard for people to dig? I saw him with Charlie Haden & Ed Blackwell in 1973, ( I was 17) totally smoking. I feel sorry for you, if you don't dig it. Makes me laugh, that he is still controversial. And the "string trio of NY," proved in 1979, that Strings in jazz, are valid.

[CAUZEFEKT]

first album and only album i own of ornettes is skies of america which is heavily orchestra influenced i love the music of it and this dudes mind yet what is a album by oc that really shows his ideas in its pure 'madness''?

if someone can help me out thank you

[bertdockx]

in a way, they all do

personal favourites:

shape of jazz to come

live at townhall

naked lunch soundtrack (howard shore/ornette coleman)

grtz

[onepresence]

A+! Pure Creativity! Thanks so much!

[kevinherbert]

The lady knife balancer was good...

[Wavelength247]

The Stockhausen and John Cage of the saxophone

[solargesture]

these guys suck balls, dont bother

[videoapparatus]

way cool

[Wavelength247]

Yes man Bartok and Ornette are like bees and honey, this guy just brings it with his innovation, I get chills listening to him.

[Wavelength247]

Ornette is the man.

[jessechil]

I have tickets to see him at the Sydney Opera House next month. So excited.

[pigshavebeards]

I love bartok!!!! And Ornette!!!!!!!! perfect.

[4ndreasH]

I love Ornette!!! :D