um no, US fighters (planes) were not involved in the Battle of Britain.
In regards to industrial bombing, it is true that the Brits DID NOT have a bomber that could fight its way in and out (take lots of dmage), or have fighters with a sufficient range to be able to escort them, or to run a head of the bomber stream to attack the enemy fighters on the ground/ or whilst they were climbing.
But this movie is set in 1940 (as I am sure you know).
@notsureyou well, by the time the Mustang got a British engine (and therefore stopped sucking) we had the Mosquito, a capable long-range fighter but better still as a bomber that fighters simply could not catch (for a long time, it was the fastest aircraft in any theatre of the war). The fast-bomber concept has since been vindicated, after WWII the only guys to keep putting guns in their bombers were the Yanks. The other way is to bomb at night, and we were better at that too.
The mosquito never had the capability to escort bombers. They had the ability to intercept german bombers, but def not able to go toe to toe with anything other than the me110.
The main reasons that the Mosquito was hard to catch was that they flew in small numbers, didn't fly at an altittude to left contrails for miles and miles, and quite often flew at night.
the Mosquito was never faster than any german single engined fighter at any point since its introduction, however given the reasons above, they were difficult to intercept, and they were employed VERY effectively.
@notsureyou I'm quite aware that the Mossie wasn't appropriate to escort. It could however perform the Intruder rôle, and did so with distinction. And the main reason that the Mosquito was hard to catch was that it was faster than the fighters (the extra altitude helped, true). The 'numbers' weren't that small, either - late in the war the LNSF attained 3000 sorties per month.
Of course, night bombing beats day once you have radionavigation - another thing the USAAF got wrong!
It def performed the intruder role VERY WELL, but it wasnt until the later model with the higher altittude performance came out that it faster at alt against SOME german fighters.
@notsureyou The fast bomber concept doesn't require you to be faster at any particular altitude, just that there must be /some/ altitude at which you're faster than the fighters - and many early Mosquito raids were done 'on the deck'. Also, the later models (I'm assuming you mean those with the two-stage Merlin) /were/ faster at altitude than the fighters (according to Wiki data on B.XVI, Bf109G-6 and Fw190A-8).
the later Mozzie (Mk XVI) came out in 1944, against the latest 190 A series yes it was, against the D series it wasnt, against the 109 later G series it was at times with some of the models faster over 7000m than some, and fastre over 8000m than the others, but against the K4 (1944) it was slower at all altitudes. The G6 you mentioned is 1943
@notsureyou The exact count of planes in each raid is not something I could find data for, but I recall reading somewhere a figure of 400. In any case, 3000/month implies an average of 100/night.
By Lorenz I assume you are referring to the German Lorenz-based radionavigation systems Knickebein, X-Gerät and Y-Gerät. These were successfully combated by the Allies due to weaknesses that OBOE did not have. Read R.V. Jones' "Most Secret War" for details.
@notsureyou The Oslo Report? That helped with many things, but Knickebein was not one of them, if memory serves.
Certainly the Mossies didn't use bomber-stream tactics, because that wasn't appropriate - the reasons for bombers to fly in a single stream don't apply when you're relying on speed and evasion in an unarmed bomber.
This is very well done as they went for realism over 'drama'. It was an important rule over the radio, that everyone speaks in clear, slow precise statements, with no excitement in their voice. This is clearly shown in the movie.
@roninjedi did you know the Star Wars saga is just the battle of britain and WW2 in the future.so george lucas putted this WW2 into science fiction.hahahaa the evil empire were the Germans and the rebellions the allies.
The last time at The Ritz I had sandwiches, they were very dry & not overly edible. That was a long time ago but recalled this by hearing A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square again played on the radio in this segment. Unlike the sandwiches at The Ritz this melody is far from dry & totally digestible to the senses.
About time no dislikes,never had a problem till the Muslim element moved in to this country ,thank-you Labour goverment for the problems yoy have created
@skintrade Maybe, but it shows where the 109 was superior to the Spitfire and the advantage that the German leadership robbed their fighter pilots by ordering them to fly close escorts.
whats interesting is that the allies went the other way with this. At first they flew close escort only, before someone (I cant remember who) told them in no uncertain words that the only way to effectively protect the bombers was with fighter sweeps etc in front of the bombers. A luftwaffe pilot (i think) even said that as seen as the allies started doing this, they knew they had lost.
Suzannah York was completely unnecessary for the movie. In 1970 when I saw the film originally as a 10 year old boy I didn't like girls and thought the Germans should have dropped a bomb on her after the fall of France.
QUESTION: Why in the movie were the 109 pilots not wearing goggles? What this historically accurate? I know you can see better without them but in combat, goggles afforded pilots some degree of protection from splinters and fire.
I think Leigh-Mallory was a dick, and his Big Wing Theory was the wrong idea for this battle. Dowding's Fabian strategy was definitely the way to go. A lot of actual history in this movie.
One of the several great movies about WWII that were made in the 60s. I still remember how overwhelmed we were by this film in those days. Nowadays it would all be done with CG.
Does anyone think Michael Caine is just a little bit too relaxed in his orders to his men in a situation which is too say the least intensly stressful?
@Sabreur64 Well, you could say he's trying to keep the young pilots under his command as calm as possible...but he does seem WAY too casual! So I agree!
If was a RAF pilot in the battle of Britain and If there was a good chance that I was not going to survive, I would spend my last days with my wife and family. if i went down, Ill take a whole lot of Luffwaffe pilots with me.
Leigh-Mallory should have been cashiered out of the service for his part in the BoB. His refusal to protect 11 Group's airfields was shameful. His big wing theory is an air superiority tactic and works well once that has been achieved, but is not a viable strategy when in a defensive mode against a numerically superior force. Keith Park had the right of it. Keith Park was the true hero (along with all the RAF pilots) of the Battle of Britain. Keith Park saved England.
@Rikki0 I'm tempted to agree, though based only on what I've read of the situation in Leo McKinstry's book ("Spitfire"). At times his actions seemed to border on treason. Yet he ironically seemed to fare better within the RAF after the Battle than either Dowding or Park. Wasn't this Dowding's victory (his air defence system) in the same way that Trafalgar was Nelson's, or the Armada's was Drake's?
@eventcone Indeed Leigh-Mallory fared better. But he was a consummate politician who knew how to play the political game and had the social credentials. Neither Dowding or Park were politicians and that was their downfall. Dowding was not a personable man. His nickname was "Stuffy". He was strictly business and cared nothing for politics. Park was too outspoken in his criticism of the upper echelon handling of the BoB. There's more too it, but I'm limited in space, heh.
@eventcone Indeed Leigh-Mallory fared better. But he was a consummate politician who knew how to play the political game and had the social credentials. Neither Dowding or Park were politicians and that was their downfall. Dowding was not a personable man. His nickname was "Stuffy". He was strictly business and cared nothing for politics. Park was too outspoken in his criticism of the upper echelon handling of the BoB. There's more to it, but I'm limited in space, heh.
1the highlander. any body read FIRST FLIGHT. a book about a young pilot who joined up and fought during the battle of britian, they were hardy fellows. they were certainly under a lot of pressure
@Paintballemo "Because the public - bless 'em - must have a pretty face". Robert Armstrong to Sam Hardy. "King Kong" (1933). True then and even more so today, unfortunately.
Its very simple, though this isn't a love story as such (since there are only a few scenes and they are married)
In movies these days they are used to get girls to go to movies that they normally wouldnt go to, thus increasing the "target audience" and it also makes it easier for us guys to go on movie dates with a movie that we will like as well :)
that's correct, but Wellingtons had strong frames but no protection, no bomber had protection, it added un-nessersary weight.
Starfire250Productio 1 month ago
God bless the RAF veterans that defeated the nazis during World war 2.
tumak1966 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos 5
he sure said a "we need miracle" in other words U.S fighters to save britain. sure we did.
Tennessee44444 1 month ago 2
@Tennessee44444 uh just a reminder other nations helped to you guys joined the war late anyways so get of the high horse
DavodBraker 1 month ago
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@Tennessee44444 uh just a reminder other nations helped to you guys joined the war late anyways so get of the high horse
DavodBraker 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Tennessee44444 uh just a reminder other nations helped to you guys joined the war late anyways so get of the high horse
DavodBraker 1 month ago
@Tennessee44444
um no, US fighters (planes) were not involved in the Battle of Britain.
In regards to industrial bombing, it is true that the Brits DID NOT have a bomber that could fight its way in and out (take lots of dmage), or have fighters with a sufficient range to be able to escort them, or to run a head of the bomber stream to attack the enemy fighters on the ground/ or whilst they were climbing.
But this movie is set in 1940 (as I am sure you know).
notsureyou 1 month ago
@notsureyou well, by the time the Mustang got a British engine (and therefore stopped sucking) we had the Mosquito, a capable long-range fighter but better still as a bomber that fighters simply could not catch (for a long time, it was the fastest aircraft in any theatre of the war). The fast-bomber concept has since been vindicated, after WWII the only guys to keep putting guns in their bombers were the Yanks. The other way is to bomb at night, and we were better at that too.
AYchip 3 weeks ago
@AYchip
The mosquito never had the capability to escort bombers. They had the ability to intercept german bombers, but def not able to go toe to toe with anything other than the me110.
The main reasons that the Mosquito was hard to catch was that they flew in small numbers, didn't fly at an altittude to left contrails for miles and miles, and quite often flew at night.
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
the Mosquito was never faster than any german single engined fighter at any point since its introduction, however given the reasons above, they were difficult to intercept, and they were employed VERY effectively.
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
I meant bombers in DAY LIGHT raids
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
@notsureyou I'm quite aware that the Mossie wasn't appropriate to escort. It could however perform the Intruder rôle, and did so with distinction. And the main reason that the Mosquito was hard to catch was that it was faster than the fighters (the extra altitude helped, true). The 'numbers' weren't that small, either - late in the war the LNSF attained 3000 sorties per month.
Of course, night bombing beats day once you have radionavigation - another thing the USAAF got wrong!
AYchip 3 weeks ago
@AYchip
It def performed the intruder role VERY WELL, but it wasnt until the later model with the higher altittude performance came out that it faster at alt against SOME german fighters.
how many planes in each raid?
have you heard of Lorenz?
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
@notsureyou The fast bomber concept doesn't require you to be faster at any particular altitude, just that there must be /some/ altitude at which you're faster than the fighters - and many early Mosquito raids were done 'on the deck'. Also, the later models (I'm assuming you mean those with the two-stage Merlin) /were/ faster at altitude than the fighters (according to Wiki data on B.XVI, Bf109G-6 and Fw190A-8).
AYchip 3 weeks ago
@AYchip
the later Mozzie (Mk XVI) came out in 1944, against the latest 190 A series yes it was, against the D series it wasnt, against the 109 later G series it was at times with some of the models faster over 7000m than some, and fastre over 8000m than the others, but against the K4 (1944) it was slower at all altitudes. The G6 you mentioned is 1943
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
@notsureyou The exact count of planes in each raid is not something I could find data for, but I recall reading somewhere a figure of 400. In any case, 3000/month implies an average of 100/night.
By Lorenz I assume you are referring to the German Lorenz-based radionavigation systems Knickebein, X-Gerät and Y-Gerät. These were successfully combated by the Allies due to weaknesses that OBOE did not have. Read R.V. Jones' "Most Secret War" for details.
AYchip 3 weeks ago
@AYchip
And the fact the the British recieved a jolly big file from an unknown german scientist outlining ALL of their secret weapons :)
I remeber hearing years ago that the Mozzies went in small groups, but I havnt been able to find anything online that confirms or corrects this.
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
@notsureyou The Oslo Report? That helped with many things, but Knickebein was not one of them, if memory serves.
Certainly the Mossies didn't use bomber-stream tactics, because that wasn't appropriate - the reasons for bombers to fly in a single stream don't apply when you're relying on speed and evasion in an unarmed bomber.
AYchip 3 weeks ago
@AYchip
From a documentary I saw, it did help the British.
The mozzies were very effectively employed, but I wonder how they would have gone if they had done the role of the b17's etc
notsureyou 3 weeks ago
Ive just noticed that the plane exploding at 3:37 is a Hurricane instead of a spit.......
notsureyou 1 month ago
Translation for 2:26-27: We are about to get majorly owned!!!!!!!!!
notsureyou 1 month ago
Lots of Canadians in the Battle of Britain, God bless them - Chris Plummer too!
bigjobs5000 2 months ago
@bigjobs5000 30
MrStig691 1 month ago
"This damn war is tearing us apart"....
bhoyjack 3 months ago
This is very well done as they went for realism over 'drama'. It was an important rule over the radio, that everyone speaks in clear, slow precise statements, with no excitement in their voice. This is clearly shown in the movie.
Xiolablu3 3 months ago
Whats with the white flight suit?
ottoramsaig 4 months ago
GIVE EM HELL MICHAEL CAIN!!!
theproducerspart2 4 months ago
ahh German Luftwaffe superior Air Force.
lovemaker1972 4 months ago
RAF pilots referred tot themselves as ''Angels'' and to the enemy as ''Bandits''.
Luftwaffe pilots referred tot themselves as ''Cowboys'' and to the enemy as ''Indianer'' (Indians).
helmuthoorn 5 months ago
@helmuthoorn
Actually "angels" was also aviator-speak for flight level given in thousands of feet. "Angels 20" = twenty-thousand feet, for example.
roninjedi 4 months ago
@roninjedi did you know the Star Wars saga is just the battle of britain and WW2 in the future.so george lucas putted this WW2 into science fiction.hahahaa the evil empire were the Germans and the rebellions the allies.
lovemaker1972 4 months ago
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The last time at The Ritz I had sandwiches, they were very dry & not overly edible. That was a long time ago but recalled this by hearing A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square again played on the radio in this segment. Unlike the sandwiches at The Ritz this melody is far from dry & totally digestible to the senses.
BigDon62 5 months ago
Comment removed
BigDon62 5 months ago
hmmmm i wonder what that thing flying high in the sky at 26 sec behind that piliot is? do you guys see it?
cpj93070 5 months ago
0:57 ... Lol...
odkingmat 5 months ago
About time no dislikes,never had a problem till the Muslim element moved in to this country ,thank-you Labour goverment for the problems yoy have created
willready2 6 months ago
lol we either stand down or blow up witch do you want sir?
winney12345star 6 months ago
was annoyed when michael caine got blown up
skintrade 7 months ago
@skintrade Maybe, but it shows where the 109 was superior to the Spitfire and the advantage that the German leadership robbed their fighter pilots by ordering them to fly close escorts.
lilbrothaaa 5 months ago
@lilbrothaaa
whats interesting is that the allies went the other way with this. At first they flew close escort only, before someone (I cant remember who) told them in no uncertain words that the only way to effectively protect the bombers was with fighter sweeps etc in front of the bombers. A luftwaffe pilot (i think) even said that as seen as the allies started doing this, they knew they had lost.
notsureyou 1 month ago
@notsureyou
SOON not seen.
notsureyou 1 month ago
3:36 is not a spitfire this is a hurricane :)
radick09 8 months ago
2:12 Wonderful planes
redpaw550 9 months ago
we owe our freedom to brave men like the RAF pilots
fransjeclevers 9 months ago
lol random kiss scenes make me laugh.
poopingeneral 10 months ago
Ladies and gentlemen, we interrupt this war to bring you pointless kissing. All action shall now come to a screeching halt.
afretired04 11 months ago 10
@afretired04 It was not pointless. Switch off if you don't like
Jeneral28 2 months ago
@afretired04 ha! thats a good one!
ectomy1235 1 week ago
the bed it is
icefighter35 11 months ago
Doesn't that chick believe in strength through joy?
specom 1 year ago
Suzannah York was completely unnecessary for the movie. In 1970 when I saw the film originally as a 10 year old boy I didn't like girls and thought the Germans should have dropped a bomb on her after the fall of France.
duxforddixie 1 year ago
QUESTION: Why in the movie were the 109 pilots not wearing goggles? What this historically accurate? I know you can see better without them but in combat, goggles afforded pilots some degree of protection from splinters and fire.
duxforddixie 1 year ago
I think Leigh-Mallory was a dick, and his Big Wing Theory was the wrong idea for this battle. Dowding's Fabian strategy was definitely the way to go. A lot of actual history in this movie.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
One of the several great movies about WWII that were made in the 60s. I still remember how overwhelmed we were by this film in those days. Nowadays it would all be done with CG.
Axgoodofdunemaul 1 year ago
Does anyone think Michael Caine is just a little bit too relaxed in his orders to his men in a situation which is too say the least intensly stressful?
Sabreur64 1 year ago
@Sabreur64 I look at it as him attempting to relax his men. Everyone knows its stressful.
AirAssault7 1 year ago
@Sabreur64 Well, you could say he's trying to keep the young pilots under his command as calm as possible...but he does seem WAY too casual! So I agree!
MrsJosephMerrick 1 year ago
If was a RAF pilot in the battle of Britain and If there was a good chance that I was not going to survive, I would spend my last days with my wife and family. if i went down, Ill take a whole lot of Luffwaffe pilots with me.
haynes1776 1 year ago
its all started with a bang bang and straight to kissing and censureship
12ock 1 year ago
Women - can't even live at ease during time of peril. First the Jerrys and now abstinence? That's just plain absurd as is.
SZ9000 1 year ago
Comment removed
haynes1776 1 year ago
Leigh-Mallory should have been cashiered out of the service for his part in the BoB. His refusal to protect 11 Group's airfields was shameful. His big wing theory is an air superiority tactic and works well once that has been achieved, but is not a viable strategy when in a defensive mode against a numerically superior force. Keith Park had the right of it. Keith Park was the true hero (along with all the RAF pilots) of the Battle of Britain. Keith Park saved England.
Rikki0 1 year ago
@Rikki0 I also give due credit to Hugh Dowding.
Rikki0 1 year ago
@Rikki0 As to my previous statements, I also give due credit to Lord Beaverbrook. What a phenomenal and crucial job he did.
Rikki0 1 year ago
Comment removed
haynes1776 1 year ago
@Rikki0 Absolutely agree 100%
Xiolablu3 1 year ago
@Rikki0 I'm tempted to agree, though based only on what I've read of the situation in Leo McKinstry's book ("Spitfire"). At times his actions seemed to border on treason. Yet he ironically seemed to fare better within the RAF after the Battle than either Dowding or Park. Wasn't this Dowding's victory (his air defence system) in the same way that Trafalgar was Nelson's, or the Armada's was Drake's?
eventcone 1 year ago
@eventcone Indeed Leigh-Mallory fared better. But he was a consummate politician who knew how to play the political game and had the social credentials. Neither Dowding or Park were politicians and that was their downfall. Dowding was not a personable man. His nickname was "Stuffy". He was strictly business and cared nothing for politics. Park was too outspoken in his criticism of the upper echelon handling of the BoB. There's more too it, but I'm limited in space, heh.
Rikki0 1 year ago
@eventcone Indeed Leigh-Mallory fared better. But he was a consummate politician who knew how to play the political game and had the social credentials. Neither Dowding or Park were politicians and that was their downfall. Dowding was not a personable man. His nickname was "Stuffy". He was strictly business and cared nothing for politics. Park was too outspoken in his criticism of the upper echelon handling of the BoB. There's more to it, but I'm limited in space, heh.
Rikki0 1 year ago
Comment removed
1thehighlander 1 year ago
can you imagine the stress these pilots where under
BS1965able 1 year ago
1the highlander. any body read FIRST FLIGHT. a book about a young pilot who joined up and fought during the battle of britian, they were hardy fellows. they were certainly under a lot of pressure
1thehighlander 1 year ago
why where they kissing
brickface9999999 1 year ago 8
@brickface9999999 why does every movie need a love story? thats crap -.- xD
Paintballemo 1 year ago 27
@Paintballemo those where the 60s ^^
hammerhi99 1 year ago
Comment removed
1thehighlander 1 year ago
@Paintballemo
Chill sport...Why do you think Movietones called it "Why We Fight"? Deal with it...
deetjay1 1 year ago
@Paintballemo To get the broads in the theater...
specom 1 year ago
@Paintballemo "Because the public - bless 'em - must have a pretty face". Robert Armstrong to Sam Hardy. "King Kong" (1933). True then and even more so today, unfortunately.
Setebos 11 months ago
@Paintballemo you got to see Susannah York bend over. . .nuff said.
IXIBobOhIXI 6 months ago
@Paintballemo Hear, hear
Redcarpet01 6 months ago
@Paintballemo You're crap just don't watch it.
Jeneral28 2 months ago
@Paintballemo
Its very simple, though this isn't a love story as such (since there are only a few scenes and they are married)
In movies these days they are used to get girls to go to movies that they normally wouldnt go to, thus increasing the "target audience" and it also makes it easier for us guys to go on movie dates with a movie that we will like as well :)
notsureyou 1 month ago
@brickface9999999 They are .. married.
AmersfoortTristan 5 months ago