Dr. Witaker was an theist but he found Jesus Christ here his testimony.........On youtube type in (Hell Testimony Dr Donald Whitaker)......Jesus Christ is the only way one can be saved, Oprah Winfrey said there are many way; wrong! only one way. Romans 10:9...Read and accept Jesus Christ time is running out.
We do not know if God is fraud; but we do know that the cultural notions of God are certainly fraud- Since no one has met the creator of the Universe (God). God does not write books, but people do write books about God- And people write from a very limited understanding of the Universe and the world, via their culture and their time & place in history. So the view of God from any one people, one culture or from any point in human history, could never be a definitive view of any God in existence.
Wow ALL CAPS when you spell the madness aye? Life's waaaaay harder than sky daddy debates mang! Wake up to the new world century already; leave the lies behind. Stop the money launderings of organized crime boses and their gold crosses and watches... granted some governments have to come to grips with some populations/sectors going through modernity fatigue; decades of neglect. and on and on... sky daddy ideologies held up the condoms f minus dugh!
Jamsu the Creator, the thing that created the universe was talking to me yesterday, he said to me all other gods except Him is correct. He told me he created the universe and all other habitants, he says he is a countless times more powerful than God. He is the universe and god is the size of an electron compared to him. So who do you think created the universe?? :D
@travellerforchrist, have you died? Has it all made sense to you? Have you seen Christ? Or are you just saying that because one of the many books you have chosen to read tells you so? Try a little experiment, end your life and see what happens, there's a 50% chance you might be correct. Or are you too scared? :)
@Audiman001, To be a thiest is to stand against all things that they themselves have come to produce. To say it was all created by an intelligence even greater than ours leads to the question "which intelligent designer?" Allah, Zeues, Jesus(God), Mithras? Or something else? Afterall there is about a thousand different types of gods to choose from. To not know, well we are in the same boat, but I as an Athiest I lean to the side with most evidence, instead of blindy pointing a finger and saying
To be atheist, is to be ignorant of the very evidence that atheist themselves, have produced.
How we all came to be, how exactly this world, this solar system, this galaxy, this universe, and all other universe's (multiverse?) came to be and how they all work is yet to be discovered, if at all. However, the fact of the matter is that all things that exist, here, there, and everywhere were created by a higher intelligence. And I mean that in every sense you can think of...
@Audiman001 Maybe I am ignorant of this evidence you speak of... please show me.
The so-called evidence you presented is only evidence of our (and the universe's) existance NOT of a creator of any sort.
The questions you asked have all been explained with modern science and point to a NATURAL PROCESS. So I don't understand how you point to natural processes and claim them to be SUPER-NATURAL.
Something science can never do is give an answer from igorance.. which is all your doing
@JesGabBreMar "either you suppose matter is eternal or that something just POPPED from nothing"
They may be your alternatives but thats not everyone. For example the word "eternal" is meaningless given it is a temporal statement and time only began when the universe took on its current form. So "eternal" mean nothing "before" that point.
You might want to watch Lawrence Krauss' 1 hour video here on you tube talking about how something can come from nothing however.
@irishmauddib@irishmauddib Lawrence Krauss makes the mistake of confusing empty space with nothingness... nothingness is absolute absence of ANYTHING, including empty space.
@JesGabBreMar Yes I know and he makes no such mistake in his video. If you watch the whole video he refers to both types of "nothing" and explains what he means by each and what he is talking about when he talks of each.
@JesGabBreMar Again you are missing my point. What people believe about matter is irrelevant to the point I am making. The point I am making is that whatever they believe about matter at least they can FIRST show that matter exists.
Those who believe things about god can not even do that first step. This is a massive difference and highly important.
@irishmauddib Well I watched the whole video, and didn't really find anything other than false concept of nothingness in the philosophical concept of it... he really goes on to say "nothing isn't nothing anymore"... what? if it's not nothing then it's NOT nothing but something... and I could not really see that he talks about two types of nothing. He goes on to say "dark matter is really an elementary particle" and that energy spontaneously flourish from empty space, but it's still empty space.
@JesGabBreMar Again he talks about both kinds of nothing, what we call empty space and the conceptual nothing that we of course have never experienced. The phrase nothing isnt nothing anymore is a turn of phrase and should not be too deeply read into. A catchphrase or pun if you will.
Of course none of this has anything to do with the point I am making to you and you keep missing.
@irishmauddib I don't miss it, you're missing MY point... I'm not discussing whether the God I believe in is or isn't the true God, or if we have proof of the existence of God... I'm discussing whether existence without a first uncaused cause (be it God or anything else) is a logical proposition... I really find it difficult for things to just POP out of existance from NOTHING (nada, non-existance whatsoever) and laws of physics applied even before existance
@JesGabBreMar So you admit to having no evidence for god, great, well that is progress anyway!
Just because you find something difficult does not mean it is not true. I find chemistry very difficult and the way in which it works is massively complex to me. Not once have I thought that means chemistry is not true.
As I said, we can show matter does exist, which is much much more than you can do. Just because its origin is a mystery doesnt mean you can make up gods to explain it
@irishmauddib It is not just difficult, it's logically IMPOSSIBLE... he keeps referring to nothingness as something within nature: "nothing is really a boiling, bubbling brew of virtual particles that are popping in and out of existence at timescales so short that you can't see them" WOT?, nothingness, again, is NOTHING... NOTHING doesn't exist, it is a philosophical concept, he translates the quantum fluctuations that happen in a gravitational field in a sort of "nothingness" that doesn't fit
@JesGabBreMar Just saying something is impossible does not make it so. Again just because something is complicated to you to understand does not make it wrong.
@JesGabBreMar When he said "Nothing", he was using the layman's term for "Relatively Empty Space". Relatively Empty Space still has Time/Space in it. Time/Space contains quantum foam. Quantum foam can produce matter out of time/space, in extremely small amounts. He didn't mean "Nothing" in a literal sense. Does that help?
@JesGabBreMar No one is claiming something popped into existence here. You are not even replying to the things I am saying, but things someone else has said to you.
All i have said to you is that whatever you believe you must remember that we can show matter exists. This is a lot more than you can do with your god.
@JesGabBreMar Again if you have a problem with krauss take it up with him. I do not care. If you have a problem with something I have said however, then I am here to reply to you.
You started this conversation saying that what some people think about matter is wrong. Maybe it is maybe it is not, but at least they are intelligent enough to form their beliefs about things they can actually show exist in the first place. You can not.
@JesGabBreMar I recommend you look at it, but if you have a problem with it then thats for you to deal with or take up with Krauss. If you want to reply to the things I have said then I am here to reply to you.
You started this conversation saying that what some people think about matter is wrong. Maybe it is maybe it is not, but at least they are intelligent enough to form their beliefs about things they can actually show exist in the first place. You can not.
"these people think they know theology better than anyone else."
Actually funny you should mention that. There was a published study recently in the US, in the last few months I think, that actually did show that atheists know the subject better than most theists. So if some people think they know more than others on it, it is probably because they actually do.
@irishmauddib Well, how could they know catholic theology?, did they study at a seminary or something?... many atheists like these in the video think they can debunk christianity using the bible, the problem is, do they know how to approach the Bible? do they study biblical hermeneutics?, do they know what catholic theology is and how it is conceived? did they know that the catholic theology rests on the fact that ONLY the Magisterium of the Church is authorized to correctly interpret the Bible?
"how could they know catholic theology?, did they study at a seminary or something"
Ask them. It is not for me to know how they came by their knowledge nor is it my point. My point was just that the polls and studies have shown that quite often atheists know more about religion than theists do. Take the recent "U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey" for example.
That is all my point was. How they got to be so knowledgeable is nothing to do with me or my point.
@irishmauddib I don't know about that, I don't know what that study is based on, but if the study concerned people like the man talking on this video then that study is a failure, as this guy just shows ZERO knowledge of what he's talking about... same with Dawkins and company... if they want to argue for atheism they better stick to other types of philosophy, but as for theology, they just make presumptions of knowledge, but they lack it totally or at least in a great portion of it.
@JesGabBreMar "this guy just shows ZERO knowledge of what he's talking about"
Very easy thing to say. Anyone can say it. I can say if I want you do not know what you are talking about. See how easy it is?
Instead of taking the easy way out why not actually quote something he has said and say WHY it is wrong. If the best you can do is wave your hands and moan people do not know what they are talking about then you have essentially said nothing at all.
@seidel315 This is just Pascal's wager... So you think that your all-knowing god won't be able to see past your fake faith or your "just in case" faith.
And the cost for you is not NOTHING!!!! Unless you consider devotion to something your whole life as nothing. Or your fear of hell or hope for heaven all your life is nothing.
Believe me... once you consider that this is the ONLY life that you will ever get, you will appreciate it much more and you won't just be waiting for something better
@MrYup987 so if you know it all, then why do you push all your nothing'ness beliefs on to other's.are you an athiest thumper?.to believe in nothing means you believe in somthing. because nothing is somthing you are religieus. and so you will fight for nothing and believe in nothing, religieus you are. and to answer you,i dont have any fake faith. i have a personal relationship with jesus christ the son of the most high god. and i shall not parrish in hell. but have everlasting life in heaven
@seidel315 So because I don't believe in your god you make an assertion that I must believe in nothing?
I never said that I believe in nothing. I do believe in something. I believe in PEOPLE. I don't think there is anything out there (god included) that is super-natural, there are only things we can't fully explain or don't completely understand, but that does not make those things super-natural.
I could be wrong (and have been before) but at least I'm humble enough to admit it.
@MrYup987 nothing you say. to big of a price was paid for even you. so that all might be saved. yes even you. your cup or vessel is empty. let god fill it and your nothing cup will runnith over with blessings and everlasting life with god in heaven. i do not fear hell, for fear is not of god. and i will never believe you. this is not the only life you will have. god says so. you are a falts teacher. a teacher of nothing,so why then do you persist with nothing?
@seidel315 I think what you want more than anything is this "everlasting life" you speak of.
Consider this... a single moment in my finite life is more meaningful than every moment in your infinite life, for the sole reason that it is finite. So to me, your life (also finite) and mine are greater than a gods because of our mortality. We can do the one thing that your god can't.....DIE!
If anyone claims they want to live forever, than I don't think they fully understand what forever is.
@seidel315 Now before you say "God can die if he wanted to!" than I would ask "How do you know he hasn't already? and/or he just makes it seem like he hasn't (for some)?" Or is your all-powerful god incapable of doing so?
I really don't expect an answer, since most theist don't reply when cornered. And if your a christian than you failed as one... that is according to 1 Peter 3:15
@seidel315 Look my mind is not made up and is still open (unlike yours -i will never believe you- your words) you or anyone else CAN convince me but has not otherwise. With me the more I looked for proof or evidence of god I only found proof and evidence to the contrary.
For me an answer from ignorance is not enough (i.e. I don't know how this works or how this got here... THEREFORE GOD DID IT!)
I suggest you search for what there actually IS and not what you would like there to be.
@irishmauddib Did you look up the meaning of "Michael"? If I lost you, then look at my comment again. :) If Michael Nugent knew the meaning of his name, he might think differently. That's all I'm saying!
First I am not sure why you are replying to me in a new comment rather than with the reply button. I can only assume you were hoping I would not see your comment for some reasons.
Secondly I am more than aware of the etymology of the name. This is not where you lost me. It is how this is in any way relevant that you have lost me on.
@michaeldsmith2013 Well you have lost me. How is the etymology of nomenclature in any way relevant to his thinking in regards his words on this video?
@michaeldsmith2013 Thanks for your comment, Not much now would shake Michael, you can change your name, change your religion, but unlike religion, The Atheist formally known as Michael would be a tad to far. -Tom
@michaeldsmith2013 i guess by your logic naming a cat michael would make that cat religious, its just word, how superstitious can someone be? one that was likely given to him by his parents, that doesnt magically make him religious, my names joseph that doesnt make me on of the josephs from the bible, it means my dad gave me his middle name, hes not religious, for the sake of mankind evolve past your 3rd grade intelligence
@michaeldsmith2013 Or... maybe you should open you're mind to intelligence and not just blind belief. There's a saying I'm sure you know, "You can't judge a book by it's cover"
The problem with this debate is that each debater has a different definition of God. Thus there is a lack of clash. The athiests attack a Judeo-Christian God defined by traditional scripture. (Thus there attacks center around ancient barbaric "God sanctioned" practices. The theist argues for a more abstract transcendent God unbound my man-made scripture, defined by (morality), and cosmological causality (Aquinas 5 proofs). I find the theist more reasonable in his arguments for coexistence.
@moxin86 said "The theist argues for a more abstract transcendent God unbound my man-made scripture, defined by (morality)". Wow, really? Because every single theist I have debated uses the bible as their sole repository of knowledge, truth and morality. So I'm not sure what theists you've been talking to. And as a wise man once said, if you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.
@eurisko67 Well, you can't judge for your own experience... or was Thomas Aquinas using the bible as a "sole repository" of knowledge when he spoke of the five ways?.
Religion is the geatest FRAUD in all history. No intelligent person believes in virgin births, angels, miracles, and an eternal afterlife with an imaginary magic boss in the sky.
@goldstead Whats sad is people willingly waste their only lives on such thinking. Expecting, even yearning in the case of extremists, for death and it's desirable 'afterlife'.
@fsaintemarie Yours is one of the most infantile remarks I've encountered on any thread. I take it you're one of the numbskull sheepheads who religions and sects prey on. I second enochvalderado's pithy retort below.
Do. And while you are mumbling to yourself alone in your bedroom, he is out there effecting actual real change. Perfect. I wish more of the religious were like you.
@robert38usmc . I blame religion itself for his confusion. Science has done nothing in proving God does not exist The Big Bang unproven or cant not explain how it started Evolution we were fish, monkeys, Apes, and them man. Then why is it that you can not cross bread a man and a monkey or a ape if we use to be one?
@robert38usmc The earth and heaven God made you never been seen or step foot on. God is at rest waiting for us to choose. The earth we live in was made by Satan and we were made in his image Good and evil. That is why no matter how many sheep were offered up you still went to hell. It took Christ to come down and connect us to God, Who give free choose and will not intervene until judgment day.
@jamesrp007 Want to bet, The Communists/Atheists are gone but th church is sill there. Stange praising an organisation that can hardly fill hotel room for there AGM
@choir203 "can hardly fill hotel room for there AGM"
Again not sure who you are or why you do not appear to know what you are talking about, but the AGM room was standing room only by the end which means it was more than full.
I would heartily recommend getting your facts straight before posting randomly.
I agree most of our ideas about God are wrong.There is a lot of magic and mystery which needs to be tossed out. There is a lot of crazy thinking and contradiction as well. Personally I can't understand why a creator such a vast cosmos could care about me...so I lean towards agnosticism. That aside, I think there are some beautiful ideas in some of Christ's Parables, Buddha's Sutras, etc. There is some great art too. Not sure how one separates the good from the bad, but I try.
Insults demean only the insulter, not the target. If the best you can do is name calling then you really need to do better. Give it another try please and act more adult when you do it.
"why not put the same effort into saying the tooth fairy or Santa Claus does not exist"
A very easy question to answer. We WOULD make the same effort if Santa was used the way gods are
However santa is not used to change our education system, dictate our societies morals, set laws, lie to and control people, say what science can or cant research and more.
We would love to wake up tomorrow and leave religion alone. Honestly we would. We just are not let.
Where I live Christianity is the prevalent and most influential religion. Why would I concern myself with Hinduism, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy when they have such a low impact on my everyday life.
The fool believes there is a god, with no valid justification whatsoever.
There is a regional officer and a colleges officer whom you can contact and ask this question to if you like. PM me and I will send you their email details for this.
What is a person of fate? I do not care if you find it insulting. I protect people not ideas. If words upset then the only person with a problem is the one that is upset. Build a bridge and get over it.
If you think thats a nice attitude to have then that says a lot about you. Thankfully it is not the position I espoused. All ideas should be subject to scrutiny, testing and yes even ridicule. If someone DECIDED to get insulted by that then thats THEIR problem not mine. It was not my intention nor do they have any right to be protected from something that is only their problem only in their head.
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''nice attiude'' well that was sarcasm
Afther all it IS the attitude you have,
I dont believe in your idea of ridiculeing peoples belives,, This is were i prefer believers over athiests as believers normaly tent to live and let live
Lying again just like on the other video. This is not my attitude. My attitude is that ideas can be ridiculed. At no point did I say to ridicule people. Stop putting YOUR words in MY mouth, I have enough of my own thanks.
IF I ridicule an idea and someone takes offense at that, then the only person with a problem is the person taking offense. All I ridiculed was an idea. If an idea wants to come alive and take offense then so be it. Its not peoples duty to take offense for it.
If you are going to "use my logic" then do so, but do not use your logic and then call it mine.
I NEVER said and NEVER would say that people do not ALSO find other reasons for war and murder. So yet again I ask you to stop putting YOUR words in MY mouth, I really do have enough of my own.
I ridicule bad ideas. If you think ideas are people then get your sanity checked. I have problems with some ideas, not the people who hold them. Get your facts about me straight.
This does not mean it is the only reason. I never said it was the only reason. So you can please stop lying about me today. You keep putting words in my mouth, saying I post videos on you tube when I never have, and more.
Yes, I ridicule ideas. I am proud of that. All ideas, even the good ones, should be subject to scrutiny, testing, demands of evidence and where relevant ridicule. There is nothing wrong with that. Ideas do not need to be protected, people do.
Does not matter if it was plural or not. I have NEVER posted a video ever, let alone several. I want to see you show ONE video I have posted, it does not matter if it is plural or not.... oh wow.... you cant do it.... why.... cause I have never posted a video ever thats why liar.
So no, Ill leave the twisting to you, youre the only one doing it here. Run away now little liar.
So I never posted a video but you say I did. I said that the religious have killed people they disagree with in history and you tried to make it sound like I said this is the ONLY reason people kill. I say I ridicule ideas and you changed that to I ridicule people. And after all that YOU say it is ME doing the twisting? For shame little liar boy for shame. Come back when you decide to be honest ok? You asked in one comment "Now who is twisting" well the answer is its YOU all the way.
Indeed. So now that you are finished saying things about me that are not true, maybe you want to try and make your point again? I forget what it was and I cant read it now as it has got an amazing amount of down thumbs from all the other people.
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Well first of all i didnt say them things about you as i thought you were some one else, secondly i made my point and it had nothing to do with you on this matter its for the page owner
You said them about me. It is not my fault you do not know what you are talking about or who too. Secondly you made your point to everyone, not the channel owner, as this is a public forum. Might I politely suggest the PM system if you have a problem with that.
Then maybe your problem is with not listening to the other person? If you go back over the thread you can count how many times I told you over and over I have never posted a video EVER before you realised your mistake.
Maybe if you actually learn to listen to what the other person says first time you will then stop being so wrong, so often? What say you?
@irishmauddib The Pope is a man not holy at all just the Opposites. He can not wash away anything not even his own sins. Furthermore he has the same connection to God as you and I if he repents. This is a prime example of someone who doesnt know the real word of God.
Why are you talking at me about the pope? I never mentioned him. In fact on this whole video thread of comments there is only one mention of him and that is from you, not me.
Why bring up a subject that I never mentioned and then say this is an example of someone who doesnt know about that subject? How can you know what I know when I never mentioned it?
@irishmauddib You are still the same rambling on in your mini Organisation, People believe in God whatever you and your anti Catholic little organiation think. Why dosen't Nugent stand for the Organisation in next years Presidintial Election and see how far he gets
@choir203 "You are still the same " Glad yo see you think you know me. I actually have no idea who you are or what you are on about. Should I remember you? IF you want to ask Nugent something, email him. He is easily contacted. I have NO idea why youre asking me though. Who are you?
@irishmauddib Ideas are ridiculed when they are, well, ridiculous... isn't it more ridiculous to believe that matter is eternal?... you need at least the same amount of faith to believe that matter is eternal and infinite (when I say matter, I mean all that is measurable, including energy). In the end you end up in the field only reachable by faith, you believe in matter, we believe in something other than matter that started matter.
@JesGabBreMar Yep and your ideas are ridiculous which is why we ridicule them. You got it exactly right.
As for matter you have no idea what I believe about it, so you have nothing to comment on. You are just commenting on what someone else you think of believes and are assigning that belief to me.
Suffice to say however, that whatever you want to moan about... at least we can show matter exists before we go believing things about it. Thats one step more than you can do with your god idea.
"how did matter came to be, if you care to elaborate on your belief"
I never expressed any belief so I have nothing to elaborate on. All my point was is that whatever one believes about it at least it can first be shown to exist. This is not the same as your god, something you have beliefs about before you have even gone so far as to show there even IS such a thing. See the difference? Moaning about it does not help.
@irishmauddib Who told you I'm "moaning" about it... what is it with you and moaning, do you moan?.
But you have to believe something, believing that God doesn't exist IS a belief, isn't it?... I can account for my experience that yeah, it does exist, miracles happen, testimonies abound, only that some people seem to overlook it in a UFO sighting style. But I'll give you that Faith does play a part in believing what you experience, live, see, hear, etc...
@JesGabBreMar "believing that God doesn't exist IS a belief,"
So is saying you beleive there are no unicorns. Whats the relevance? Most people in Atheist Ireland do not claim that anyway. They do not say there is no god, they say there is no reason forthcoming to think there is. Massive difference.
And no religion does not live and let live. Our history is rife with people killing people of other, or no, faiths. Our courts are full of people trying to change science and education and literature because it disagrees with their faith. There are laws like blasphemy being started in ireland. The one thing people of faith CANT do it live and let live.
Hardly group therapy. There are political implications of the belief. They are not worried with a work of fiction that does not exist, but with what people are doing in the name of that work of fiction and how it affects our society.
Im sure there are some that would like us to just shut up and be quiet, maybe you included, but its not going to happen just because you pretend its a non issue.
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Personaly, I couldn't care who wastes their time how.
What I'm saying is, little support groups are going to change fuck all. Want to change things? Become a teacher and educate kids enough for them recognize bullshit when they see it.
I just dont see it eh same way. It is amazing what even one voice can acheive in this world! So for you to write off a group of voices so easily.... I cant follow you in that.
Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is very clear, neither of us is going to answer that question without trying and finding out. IF it doesnt help then do be it, but I am not about to subscribe to some form of defeatist mentality and not try at all.
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All experience ever referenced, without a single exception, manifests with personal characteristics. There is not a single documented case of any experience that is completely impersonal.
Therefore, to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is completely illogical and unscientific. Experience always manifests with personal characteristics, and so it follows logically and scientifically that the origin of all experience also manifests with personal characteristics.
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My answer is that what you wrote is illogical and incorrect, and what I wrote is different from what you wrote, is perfectly logical, and is perfectly correct.
Nice job shooting down your own statement and not coming close to mine, though!
Just calling something illogical and correct does not suddenly make it take on that attribute, just like calling an orange green does not make it turn green.
When you are ready to actually explain WHY it is incorrect or actually answer the question I asked you, then I am here for you.
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You stated that your own statement was incorrect, while wrongly imagining that you were referencing my statement. Your brain is too dull to apprehend the fact that my statement was different from yours. I'll refresh your memory:
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All experience ever referenced manifests with personal characteristics.
Therefore, to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is totally illogical and unscientific. Since all experience always manifests with personal characteristics, it follows logically and scientifically that the origin of all experience also manifests with personal characteristics.
Again answer the question and show me how I am wrong in what I said. Here it is again to remind you:
Since all experience is personal (x has characteristic y - x is experience y is it being personal) therefore it follows that the origin has also got characteristic y or it follows logically that the origin of all experience also manifests it.
So yes, what I said is accurate, and you wont or cant tell me why it is not or answer my question
Do you think posting it a second time somehow makes it more correct? Wow, you follow illogic with more illogic.
Again I ask you, just because thing X exhibits a characteristic (experience exhibits the personal) where do you get the notion that this means it therefore follows that whatever created it also has the same characteristic? You seem totally unable to clarify or answer that.
All experience ever referenced, in any and all instances, manifests with personal characteristics. There is no documented example of any experience that is completely impersonal.
Therefore, to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is very illogical and unscientific. Experience always manifests with personal characteristics, and so it follows logically and scientifically that the origin of all experience also manifests with personal characteristics.
What are you trying to say here? That because thing X exhibits characteristic Y, then whatever was used to form X also has to exhibit characteristic Y? And you call this logic? Try again sir, this is an awful first attempt.
Actually, no, that's not what I said, but yes, what you said is very illogical. What you said is a classic logical fallacy, in fact -- it's called the straw-man fallacy.
Ah name calling, this means you have no points left. Remember insults demean only the insulter, not the target. As I said, care to try again, this is an awful first and second attempt.
You are taking me quoting someone else and suggesting I am the one saying it? This is just trolling. If you wish to troll a reaction out of me you will fail.
Lets show how what I said was accurate. First you claimed that: All experience ever manifests with personal characteristics. This is like I said: Thing X has characteristic Y.
You then proceeded to say therefore that: to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is very illogical and unscientific. In other words that therefore the origin of it must also have characteristic Y.
So I am agog to hear where my description of your position is inaccurate.
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atheism is a belief in "nothing" takes just as much faith...there will always be a stalemate when it comes to arguments for and against god.that's why it is a belief and not a fact...this author is using a technique to refute an argument- it is called reductio ad absurd um or loosely translated- reduced to absurdity.. .to me at least- religion is corrupt...that doesn't mean there is no creator... of course maybe a knife can evolve into a spoon too!
Not sure what your point is. In the absence of any evidence for this creator, we simply proceed without that assumption. Thats all that is required.
If we open ourselves up to what you just said then we would have to operate on any crazy notion people come up with, simply because its absurdness doesnt mean it is not true.
The fact is I have never been shown evidence for such an entity and until such time as I have been I will resist its use in public society, politics, education and science.
Also your "belief in nothing" comment smacks of strawman and trolling I am afraid. I think you will find that what most people who do not accept god think is not "nothing" but "We dont know, so lets find out".
We do not know what caused it all, we just see no evidence that the answer is a god. Maybe it is! It could be! However no one has shown me the first shred of evidence to suggest it is so.
really informative and interesting
jjclassjj 1 week ago
love the video man
simysimss 1 week ago
Atheist 4 life :)
irlsarge 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
sprinkle888 2 months ago
Dr. Witaker was an theist but he found Jesus Christ here his testimony.........On youtube type in (Hell Testimony Dr Donald Whitaker)......Jesus Christ is the only way one can be saved, Oprah Winfrey said there are many way; wrong! only one way. Romans 10:9...Read and accept Jesus Christ time is running out.
sprinkle888 2 months ago
We do not know if God is fraud; but we do know that the cultural notions of God are certainly fraud- Since no one has met the creator of the Universe (God). God does not write books, but people do write books about God- And people write from a very limited understanding of the Universe and the world, via their culture and their time & place in history. So the view of God from any one people, one culture or from any point in human history, could never be a definitive view of any God in existence.
O2streaming 2 months ago
Wow ALL CAPS when you spell the madness aye? Life's waaaaay harder than sky daddy debates mang! Wake up to the new world century already; leave the lies behind. Stop the money launderings of organized crime boses and their gold crosses and watches... granted some governments have to come to grips with some populations/sectors going through modernity fatigue; decades of neglect. and on and on... sky daddy ideologies held up the condoms f minus dugh!
guitarzeroh 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If we are wrong in our beliefs then whats the cost?....NOTHING!
But if your WRONG the cost is life in heaven and a God who loves your any way.
better to be safe then sorry
seidel315 7 months ago
Jamsu the Creator, the thing that created the universe was talking to me yesterday, he said to me all other gods except Him is correct. He told me he created the universe and all other habitants, he says he is a countless times more powerful than God. He is the universe and god is the size of an electron compared to him. So who do you think created the universe?? :D
elsangre333 9 months ago
@travellerforchrist, have you died? Has it all made sense to you? Have you seen Christ? Or are you just saying that because one of the many books you have chosen to read tells you so? Try a little experiment, end your life and see what happens, there's a 50% chance you might be correct. Or are you too scared? :)
elsangre333 9 months ago
It's correct
elsangre333 9 months ago
@Audiman001, To be a thiest is to stand against all things that they themselves have come to produce. To say it was all created by an intelligence even greater than ours leads to the question "which intelligent designer?" Allah, Zeues, Jesus(God), Mithras? Or something else? Afterall there is about a thousand different types of gods to choose from. To not know, well we are in the same boat, but I as an Athiest I lean to the side with most evidence, instead of blindy pointing a finger and saying
elsangre333 9 months ago
To be atheist, is to be ignorant of the very evidence that atheist themselves, have produced.
How we all came to be, how exactly this world, this solar system, this galaxy, this universe, and all other universe's (multiverse?) came to be and how they all work is yet to be discovered, if at all. However, the fact of the matter is that all things that exist, here, there, and everywhere were created by a higher intelligence. And I mean that in every sense you can think of...
Think about this: th
Audiman001 9 months ago
@Audiman001 Maybe I am ignorant of this evidence you speak of... please show me.
The so-called evidence you presented is only evidence of our (and the universe's) existance NOT of a creator of any sort.
The questions you asked have all been explained with modern science and point to a NATURAL PROCESS. So I don't understand how you point to natural processes and claim them to be SUPER-NATURAL.
Something science can never do is give an answer from igorance.. which is all your doing
MrYup987 3 months ago
I think that for This world to become an atheist one, we would need not to try to change Ppl, but to make ppl... So get ur freak on atheists!!!
drointhedrawer 9 months ago
@JesGabBreMar "either you suppose matter is eternal or that something just POPPED from nothing"
They may be your alternatives but thats not everyone. For example the word "eternal" is meaningless given it is a temporal statement and time only began when the universe took on its current form. So "eternal" mean nothing "before" that point.
You might want to watch Lawrence Krauss' 1 hour video here on you tube talking about how something can come from nothing however.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib @irishmauddib Lawrence Krauss makes the mistake of confusing empty space with nothingness... nothingness is absolute absence of ANYTHING, including empty space.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar Yes I know and he makes no such mistake in his video. If you watch the whole video he refers to both types of "nothing" and explains what he means by each and what he is talking about when he talks of each.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib I'll try watching it more carefully.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar Again you are missing my point. What people believe about matter is irrelevant to the point I am making. The point I am making is that whatever they believe about matter at least they can FIRST show that matter exists.
Those who believe things about god can not even do that first step. This is a massive difference and highly important.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib Well I watched the whole video, and didn't really find anything other than false concept of nothingness in the philosophical concept of it... he really goes on to say "nothing isn't nothing anymore"... what? if it's not nothing then it's NOT nothing but something... and I could not really see that he talks about two types of nothing. He goes on to say "dark matter is really an elementary particle" and that energy spontaneously flourish from empty space, but it's still empty space.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar Again he talks about both kinds of nothing, what we call empty space and the conceptual nothing that we of course have never experienced. The phrase nothing isnt nothing anymore is a turn of phrase and should not be too deeply read into. A catchphrase or pun if you will.
Of course none of this has anything to do with the point I am making to you and you keep missing.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib I don't miss it, you're missing MY point... I'm not discussing whether the God I believe in is or isn't the true God, or if we have proof of the existence of God... I'm discussing whether existence without a first uncaused cause (be it God or anything else) is a logical proposition... I really find it difficult for things to just POP out of existance from NOTHING (nada, non-existance whatsoever) and laws of physics applied even before existance
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar "existance" is meant "existence"... sorry, english is not my first language.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar So you admit to having no evidence for god, great, well that is progress anyway!
Just because you find something difficult does not mean it is not true. I find chemistry very difficult and the way in which it works is massively complex to me. Not once have I thought that means chemistry is not true.
As I said, we can show matter does exist, which is much much more than you can do. Just because its origin is a mystery doesnt mean you can make up gods to explain it
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib It is not just difficult, it's logically IMPOSSIBLE... he keeps referring to nothingness as something within nature: "nothing is really a boiling, bubbling brew of virtual particles that are popping in and out of existence at timescales so short that you can't see them" WOT?, nothingness, again, is NOTHING... NOTHING doesn't exist, it is a philosophical concept, he translates the quantum fluctuations that happen in a gravitational field in a sort of "nothingness" that doesn't fit
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar Just saying something is impossible does not make it so. Again just because something is complicated to you to understand does not make it wrong.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar When he said "Nothing", he was using the layman's term for "Relatively Empty Space". Relatively Empty Space still has Time/Space in it. Time/Space contains quantum foam. Quantum foam can produce matter out of time/space, in extremely small amounts. He didn't mean "Nothing" in a literal sense. Does that help?
tikifreakazoid 11 months ago
@irishmauddib Nothing can come from nothing.. "nothing" can't pop into existence, because it is precisely that... nothing.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar No one is claiming something popped into existence here. You are not even replying to the things I am saying, but things someone else has said to you.
All i have said to you is that whatever you believe you must remember that we can show matter exists. This is a lot more than you can do with your god.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib The guy in the video, Lawrence Krauss, is saying that, literally. And he doesn't seem like joking.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar Again if you have a problem with krauss take it up with him. I do not care. If you have a problem with something I have said however, then I am here to reply to you.
You started this conversation saying that what some people think about matter is wrong. Maybe it is maybe it is not, but at least they are intelligent enough to form their beliefs about things they can actually show exist in the first place. You can not.
When you can, then we can talk.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib You tell me, you're the one who recommended me to look for it, so I did... guess what, not convinced.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar I recommend you look at it, but if you have a problem with it then thats for you to deal with or take up with Krauss. If you want to reply to the things I have said then I am here to reply to you.
You started this conversation saying that what some people think about matter is wrong. Maybe it is maybe it is not, but at least they are intelligent enough to form their beliefs about things they can actually show exist in the first place. You can not.
When you can, then we can talk
irishmauddib 1 year ago
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about... that's the thing that bugs me... these people think they know theology better than anyone else.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
"these people think they know theology better than anyone else."
Actually funny you should mention that. There was a published study recently in the US, in the last few months I think, that actually did show that atheists know the subject better than most theists. So if some people think they know more than others on it, it is probably because they actually do.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib Well, how could they know catholic theology?, did they study at a seminary or something?... many atheists like these in the video think they can debunk christianity using the bible, the problem is, do they know how to approach the Bible? do they study biblical hermeneutics?, do they know what catholic theology is and how it is conceived? did they know that the catholic theology rests on the fact that ONLY the Magisterium of the Church is authorized to correctly interpret the Bible?
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
"how could they know catholic theology?, did they study at a seminary or something"
Ask them. It is not for me to know how they came by their knowledge nor is it my point. My point was just that the polls and studies have shown that quite often atheists know more about religion than theists do. Take the recent "U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey" for example.
That is all my point was. How they got to be so knowledgeable is nothing to do with me or my point.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib I don't know about that, I don't know what that study is based on, but if the study concerned people like the man talking on this video then that study is a failure, as this guy just shows ZERO knowledge of what he's talking about... same with Dawkins and company... if they want to argue for atheism they better stick to other types of philosophy, but as for theology, they just make presumptions of knowledge, but they lack it totally or at least in a great portion of it.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar "this guy just shows ZERO knowledge of what he's talking about"
Very easy thing to say. Anyone can say it. I can say if I want you do not know what you are talking about. See how easy it is?
Instead of taking the easy way out why not actually quote something he has said and say WHY it is wrong. If the best you can do is wave your hands and moan people do not know what they are talking about then you have essentially said nothing at all.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
I admire the faith of Atheists.
zigzagzoo12 1 year ago
Don't forget to Subscribe
AtheistIreland 1 year ago
@AtheistIreland If we are wrong in our beliefs whats the cost.... NOTHING!!!!
But if your WRONG the cost is life in heaven and a God who loves you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its better to be safe than sorry
seidel315 7 months ago
@seidel315 This is just Pascal's wager... So you think that your all-knowing god won't be able to see past your fake faith or your "just in case" faith.
And the cost for you is not NOTHING!!!! Unless you consider devotion to something your whole life as nothing. Or your fear of hell or hope for heaven all your life is nothing.
Believe me... once you consider that this is the ONLY life that you will ever get, you will appreciate it much more and you won't just be waiting for something better
MrYup987 4 months ago
@MrYup987 so if you know it all, then why do you push all your nothing'ness beliefs on to other's.are you an athiest thumper?.to believe in nothing means you believe in somthing. because nothing is somthing you are religieus. and so you will fight for nothing and believe in nothing, religieus you are. and to answer you,i dont have any fake faith. i have a personal relationship with jesus christ the son of the most high god. and i shall not parrish in hell. but have everlasting life in heaven
seidel315 4 months ago
@seidel315 So because I don't believe in your god you make an assertion that I must believe in nothing?
I never said that I believe in nothing. I do believe in something. I believe in PEOPLE. I don't think there is anything out there (god included) that is super-natural, there are only things we can't fully explain or don't completely understand, but that does not make those things super-natural.
I could be wrong (and have been before) but at least I'm humble enough to admit it.
MrYup987 3 months ago
@MrYup987 nothing you say. to big of a price was paid for even you. so that all might be saved. yes even you. your cup or vessel is empty. let god fill it and your nothing cup will runnith over with blessings and everlasting life with god in heaven. i do not fear hell, for fear is not of god. and i will never believe you. this is not the only life you will have. god says so. you are a falts teacher. a teacher of nothing,so why then do you persist with nothing?
seidel315 4 months ago
@seidel315 I think what you want more than anything is this "everlasting life" you speak of.
Consider this... a single moment in my finite life is more meaningful than every moment in your infinite life, for the sole reason that it is finite. So to me, your life (also finite) and mine are greater than a gods because of our mortality. We can do the one thing that your god can't.....DIE!
If anyone claims they want to live forever, than I don't think they fully understand what forever is.
MrYup987 3 months ago
@seidel315 Now before you say "God can die if he wanted to!" than I would ask "How do you know he hasn't already? and/or he just makes it seem like he hasn't (for some)?" Or is your all-powerful god incapable of doing so?
I really don't expect an answer, since most theist don't reply when cornered. And if your a christian than you failed as one... that is according to 1 Peter 3:15
MrYup987 3 months ago
@seidel315 Look my mind is not made up and is still open (unlike yours -i will never believe you- your words) you or anyone else CAN convince me but has not otherwise. With me the more I looked for proof or evidence of god I only found proof and evidence to the contrary.
For me an answer from ignorance is not enough (i.e. I don't know how this works or how this got here... THEREFORE GOD DID IT!)
I suggest you search for what there actually IS and not what you would like there to be.
MrYup987 3 months ago
@irishmauddib Did you look up the meaning of "Michael"? If I lost you, then look at my comment again. :) If Michael Nugent knew the meaning of his name, he might think differently. That's all I'm saying!
michaeldsmith2013 1 year ago
@michaeldsmith2013
First I am not sure why you are replying to me in a new comment rather than with the reply button. I can only assume you were hoping I would not see your comment for some reasons.
Secondly I am more than aware of the etymology of the name. This is not where you lost me. It is how this is in any way relevant that you have lost me on.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
This speaker's name is Michael. He should look up what his name means. That will shake his thinking!
michaeldsmith2013 1 year ago
@michaeldsmith2013 Well you have lost me. How is the etymology of nomenclature in any way relevant to his thinking in regards his words on this video?
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@michaeldsmith2013 Thanks for your comment, Not much now would shake Michael, you can change your name, change your religion, but unlike religion, The Atheist formally known as Michael would be a tad to far. -Tom
AtheistIreland 1 year ago 2
@michaeldsmith2013 Close to mentally retarded
StarNightsDream 10 months ago
@michaeldsmith2013 i guess by your logic naming a cat michael would make that cat religious, its just word, how superstitious can someone be? one that was likely given to him by his parents, that doesnt magically make him religious, my names joseph that doesnt make me on of the josephs from the bible, it means my dad gave me his middle name, hes not religious, for the sake of mankind evolve past your 3rd grade intelligence
gta747 9 months ago
@michaeldsmith2013 Or... maybe you should open you're mind to intelligence and not just blind belief. There's a saying I'm sure you know, "You can't judge a book by it's cover"
MyJibJib 6 months ago
The problem with this debate is that each debater has a different definition of God. Thus there is a lack of clash. The athiests attack a Judeo-Christian God defined by traditional scripture. (Thus there attacks center around ancient barbaric "God sanctioned" practices. The theist argues for a more abstract transcendent God unbound my man-made scripture, defined by (morality), and cosmological causality (Aquinas 5 proofs). I find the theist more reasonable in his arguments for coexistence.
moxin86 1 year ago
@moxin86 said "The theist argues for a more abstract transcendent God unbound my man-made scripture, defined by (morality)". Wow, really? Because every single theist I have debated uses the bible as their sole repository of knowledge, truth and morality. So I'm not sure what theists you've been talking to. And as a wise man once said, if you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.
eurisko67 1 year ago
@eurisko67 Well, you can't judge for your own experience... or was Thomas Aquinas using the bible as a "sole repository" of knowledge when he spoke of the five ways?.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
Great!!!!
Tinsi33 1 year ago
Religion is the geatest FRAUD in all history. No intelligent person believes in virgin births, angels, miracles, and an eternal afterlife with an imaginary magic boss in the sky.
goldstead 1 year ago
@goldstead Whats sad is people willingly waste their only lives on such thinking. Expecting, even yearning in the case of extremists, for death and it's desirable 'afterlife'.
walkertexasranger77 1 year ago
@goldstead It is control of the masses and it is a huge money-spinner
yam500 1 year ago
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I feel very sorry for you and I will pray for you.
fsaintemarie 1 year ago
@fsaintemarie @fsaintemarie you're an arrogant prick!
mythicalhell 1 year ago
@fsaintemarie Awwwwwwww that's so sweet of you :)
AtheistIreland 1 year ago
Comment removed
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@fsaintemarie I feel very sorry for you and I will think for you
enochalvarado 1 year ago
@fsaintemarie Yours is one of the most infantile remarks I've encountered on any thread. I take it you're one of the numbskull sheepheads who religions and sects prey on. I second enochvalderado's pithy retort below.
mickigoe 1 year ago
@fsaintemarie brainwashed...
StarNightsDream 10 months ago
very sad. I will pray for him
fsaintemarie 1 year ago
"very sad. I will pray for him"
Do. And while you are mumbling to yourself alone in your bedroom, he is out there effecting actual real change. Perfect. I wish more of the religious were like you.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
I google my surname and Ireland and I get this... what a shame.
AdamAus85 1 year ago
@robert38usmc . I blame religion itself for his confusion. Science has done nothing in proving God does not exist The Big Bang unproven or cant not explain how it started Evolution we were fish, monkeys, Apes, and them man. Then why is it that you can not cross bread a man and a monkey or a ape if we use to be one?
robert38usmc 1 year ago
@robert38usmc The earth and heaven God made you never been seen or step foot on. God is at rest waiting for us to choose. The earth we live in was made by Satan and we were made in his image Good and evil. That is why no matter how many sheep were offered up you still went to hell. It took Christ to come down and connect us to God, Who give free choose and will not intervene until judgment day.
robert38usmc 1 year ago
Finally !!! i like the idea of atheistIreland... Brilliant!! No1 will believe in god in 100 years, we`re just ahead of the majority..
jamesrp007 2 years ago 3
@jamesrp007 People have believed in God(S) in all known communties. Why will 100 years be different?
ChrisMcHugh 2 years ago
@jamesrp007 Want to bet, The Communists/Atheists are gone but th church is sill there. Stange praising an organisation that can hardly fill hotel room for there AGM
choir203 1 year ago
@choir203 "can hardly fill hotel room for there AGM"
Again not sure who you are or why you do not appear to know what you are talking about, but the AGM room was standing room only by the end which means it was more than full.
I would heartily recommend getting your facts straight before posting randomly.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
I agree most of our ideas about God are wrong.There is a lot of magic and mystery which needs to be tossed out. There is a lot of crazy thinking and contradiction as well. Personally I can't understand why a creator such a vast cosmos could care about me...so I lean towards agnosticism. That aside, I think there are some beautiful ideas in some of Christ's Parables, Buddha's Sutras, etc. There is some great art too. Not sure how one separates the good from the bad, but I try.
cloudsurfer007 2 years ago 2
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If God is such a "fraud" why all this attempt to say He does not exist???
I mean, why not put the same effort into saying the tooth fairy or Santa Claus does not exist!
For some reason, the atheists feel this need to go to this extreme.
Pretty interesting what lengths they will go to disprove a "fairytale."
The fool says there is no God.
LightHasDawned 2 years ago
"The fool says there is no God."
Insults demean only the insulter, not the target. If the best you can do is name calling then you really need to do better. Give it another try please and act more adult when you do it.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 7
"why not put the same effort into saying the tooth fairy or Santa Claus does not exist"
A very easy question to answer. We WOULD make the same effort if Santa was used the way gods are
However santa is not used to change our education system, dictate our societies morals, set laws, lie to and control people, say what science can or cant research and more.
We would love to wake up tomorrow and leave religion alone. Honestly we would. We just are not let.
Hope that helps answer your question
irishmauddib 2 years ago 4
@LightHasDawned
"This extreme"?
Where I live Christianity is the prevalent and most influential religion. Why would I concern myself with Hinduism, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy when they have such a low impact on my everyday life.
The fool believes there is a god, with no valid justification whatsoever.
Aaberg123 1 year ago
shame im in SligoIT... no atheist society or anything like that here...yet?
irishlonewolf88 2 years ago
There is a regional officer and a colleges officer whom you can contact and ask this question to if you like. PM me and I will send you their email details for this.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
Happy to see my father's homeland has common sense brewing. Things are not so friendly in U.S.. still. Enjoy my videos.
guitarzeroh 2 years ago 7
@guitarzeroh Religion always gives a country a bad name...
yam500 1 year ago
@guitarzeroh There is one key point in all of this if we are wrong in our beliefs whats the cost......NOTHING!!!!
But if YOUR WRONG the cost is life in heaven with the true God.
Better to be safe than sorry
seidel315 7 months ago
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I was going to watch and listen to most of your videos but stopped at 2.09 when you just started to insult people beliefs
edlan86 2 years ago
Poor delicate little person you. Lets wrap you up in cotton wool so you dont have to be harmed by the bad people and their words.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 6
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LOL i wasnt expecting a reply,.Especially a reply like that.
All im saying is that the lecture is insulting to people of fate
edlan86 2 years ago
What is a person of fate? I do not care if you find it insulting. I protect people not ideas. If words upset then the only person with a problem is the one that is upset. Build a bridge and get over it.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 6
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Thats a nice attitude to have,
Protecting people by insulting thoese who have different beliefs
edlan86 2 years ago
If you think thats a nice attitude to have then that says a lot about you. Thankfully it is not the position I espoused. All ideas should be subject to scrutiny, testing and yes even ridicule. If someone DECIDED to get insulted by that then thats THEIR problem not mine. It was not my intention nor do they have any right to be protected from something that is only their problem only in their head.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 7
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''nice attiude'' well that was sarcasm
Afther all it IS the attitude you have,
I dont believe in your idea of ridiculeing peoples belives,, This is were i prefer believers over athiests as believers normaly tent to live and let live
edlan86 2 years ago
Lying again just like on the other video. This is not my attitude. My attitude is that ideas can be ridiculed. At no point did I say to ridicule people. Stop putting YOUR words in MY mouth, I have enough of my own thanks.
IF I ridicule an idea and someone takes offense at that, then the only person with a problem is the person taking offense. All I ridiculed was an idea. If an idea wants to come alive and take offense then so be it. Its not peoples duty to take offense for it.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 11
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No our history is rife with countrys killing countrys using any excuse they can use,
To use your logic Then no two countrys with the same fath would have been at war against each other.
Rather you like it or not you ridicule peoples beliefs thats is to ridicule the person. Now who is twisting
edlan86 2 years ago
If you are going to "use my logic" then do so, but do not use your logic and then call it mine.
I NEVER said and NEVER would say that people do not ALSO find other reasons for war and murder. So yet again I ask you to stop putting YOUR words in MY mouth, I really do have enough of my own.
I ridicule bad ideas. If you think ideas are people then get your sanity checked. I have problems with some ideas, not the people who hold them. Get your facts about me straight.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 8
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No you said it is full or people killing others of different or no fath,That does not mean it is wars caused by faith.
You ridicule peoples faith . you laugh and disrespect their belifes Thats a fact about you
edlan86 2 years ago
This does not mean it is the only reason. I never said it was the only reason. So you can please stop lying about me today. You keep putting words in my mouth, saying I post videos on you tube when I never have, and more.
Yes, I ridicule ideas. I am proud of that. All ideas, even the good ones, should be subject to scrutiny, testing, demands of evidence and where relevant ridicule. There is nothing wrong with that. Ideas do not need to be protected, people do.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 9
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Well i started out by trying to understand how you see the world. i think i have an understanding of that now
I haven lied about you once except for the pural of video remark which was unintentional and i think you knew it was.
any way i think i would rather try debate with some one who wont try twist everything
edlan86 2 years ago
Does not matter if it was plural or not. I have NEVER posted a video ever, let alone several. I want to see you show ONE video I have posted, it does not matter if it is plural or not.... oh wow.... you cant do it.... why.... cause I have never posted a video ever thats why liar.
So no, Ill leave the twisting to you, youre the only one doing it here. Run away now little liar.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 5
So I never posted a video but you say I did. I said that the religious have killed people they disagree with in history and you tried to make it sound like I said this is the ONLY reason people kill. I say I ridicule ideas and you changed that to I ridicule people. And after all that YOU say it is ME doing the twisting? For shame little liar boy for shame. Come back when you decide to be honest ok? You asked in one comment "Now who is twisting" well the answer is its YOU all the way.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 6
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I thought you were someone else it was a misunderstanding
edlan86 2 years ago
Indeed. So now that you are finished saying things about me that are not true, maybe you want to try and make your point again? I forget what it was and I cant read it now as it has got an amazing amount of down thumbs from all the other people.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
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Well first of all i didnt say them things about you as i thought you were some one else, secondly i made my point and it had nothing to do with you on this matter its for the page owner
edlan86 2 years ago
You said them about me. It is not my fault you do not know what you are talking about or who too. Secondly you made your point to everyone, not the channel owner, as this is a public forum. Might I politely suggest the PM system if you have a problem with that.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
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i didnt mean them about you, Im not sure how many times i have to say that, hopefully this will be the last time,
edlan86 2 years ago
As I said, it is not my fault you do not know what you are talking about or who you are talking to. In future I recommend you think before you speak.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
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LOL it was quite a simple mistake,
edlan86 2 years ago
Then maybe your problem is with not listening to the other person? If you go back over the thread you can count how many times I told you over and over I have never posted a video EVER before you realised your mistake.
Maybe if you actually learn to listen to what the other person says first time you will then stop being so wrong, so often? What say you?
irishmauddib 2 years ago
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Look if ya want to continue chatting then lets continue in Pm,I wont message back here or conintue the chat here
I made a mistake i exhausted every means i have to apologize,
Maybe you accept it was a honest mistake
edlan86 2 years ago
Which is why I asked you to make your point again, I was giving you the chance to start over. One you summarily rejected.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
@irishmauddib The Pope is a man not holy at all just the Opposites. He can not wash away anything not even his own sins. Furthermore he has the same connection to God as you and I if he repents. This is a prime example of someone who doesnt know the real word of God.
robert38usmc 1 year ago
@robert38usmc
Why are you talking at me about the pope? I never mentioned him. In fact on this whole video thread of comments there is only one mention of him and that is from you, not me.
Why bring up a subject that I never mentioned and then say this is an example of someone who doesnt know about that subject? How can you know what I know when I never mentioned it?
Weird.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib Still at the same old think with your mini organisation
choir203 1 year ago
@choir203 Not sure what you are talking about or how it adds to the conversation. Please try again.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib You are still the same rambling on in your mini Organisation, People believe in God whatever you and your anti Catholic little organiation think. Why dosen't Nugent stand for the Organisation in next years Presidintial Election and see how far he gets
choir203 1 year ago
@choir203 "You are still the same " Glad yo see you think you know me. I actually have no idea who you are or what you are on about. Should I remember you? IF you want to ask Nugent something, email him. He is easily contacted. I have NO idea why youre asking me though. Who are you?
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib Ideas are ridiculed when they are, well, ridiculous... isn't it more ridiculous to believe that matter is eternal?... you need at least the same amount of faith to believe that matter is eternal and infinite (when I say matter, I mean all that is measurable, including energy). In the end you end up in the field only reachable by faith, you believe in matter, we believe in something other than matter that started matter.
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar Yep and your ideas are ridiculous which is why we ridicule them. You got it exactly right.
As for matter you have no idea what I believe about it, so you have nothing to comment on. You are just commenting on what someone else you think of believes and are assigning that belief to me.
Suffice to say however, that whatever you want to moan about... at least we can show matter exists before we go believing things about it. Thats one step more than you can do with your god idea.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib I don't moan, I speak words, thank you very much.
And please tell me, how did matter came to be, if you care to elaborate on "your belief"?
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
"how did matter came to be, if you care to elaborate on your belief"
I never expressed any belief so I have nothing to elaborate on. All my point was is that whatever one believes about it at least it can first be shown to exist. This is not the same as your god, something you have beliefs about before you have even gone so far as to show there even IS such a thing. See the difference? Moaning about it does not help.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
@irishmauddib Who told you I'm "moaning" about it... what is it with you and moaning, do you moan?.
But you have to believe something, believing that God doesn't exist IS a belief, isn't it?... I can account for my experience that yeah, it does exist, miracles happen, testimonies abound, only that some people seem to overlook it in a UFO sighting style. But I'll give you that Faith does play a part in believing what you experience, live, see, hear, etc...
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
@JesGabBreMar "believing that God doesn't exist IS a belief,"
So is saying you beleive there are no unicorns. Whats the relevance? Most people in Atheist Ireland do not claim that anyway. They do not say there is no god, they say there is no reason forthcoming to think there is. Massive difference.
irishmauddib 1 year ago
Comment removed
JesGabBreMar 1 year ago
And no religion does not live and let live. Our history is rife with people killing people of other, or no, faiths. Our courts are full of people trying to change science and education and literature because it disagrees with their faith. There are laws like blasphemy being started in ireland. The one thing people of faith CANT do it live and let live.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 8
Nicely done Michael.
GeekyMonkey8 2 years ago 5
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The only thing I dislike about atheism is why people still have the need to have group therapy such as this.
Still wasting as much time talking about how a work of fiction doesn't exist. some people just cant get it right.
theNISK 2 years ago
Hardly group therapy. There are political implications of the belief. They are not worried with a work of fiction that does not exist, but with what people are doing in the name of that work of fiction and how it affects our society.
Im sure there are some that would like us to just shut up and be quiet, maybe you included, but its not going to happen just because you pretend its a non issue.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 5
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Personaly, I couldn't care who wastes their time how.
What I'm saying is, little support groups are going to change fuck all. Want to change things? Become a teacher and educate kids enough for them recognize bullshit when they see it.
P.S. I am an atheist btw.
theNISK 2 years ago
I just dont see it eh same way. It is amazing what even one voice can acheive in this world! So for you to write off a group of voices so easily.... I cant follow you in that.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 6
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Of course one voice CAN change a lot. Will it? probably not.
theNISK 2 years ago
Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is very clear, neither of us is going to answer that question without trying and finding out. IF it doesnt help then do be it, but I am not about to subscribe to some form of defeatist mentality and not try at all.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 6
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All experience ever referenced, without a single exception, manifests with personal characteristics. There is not a single documented case of any experience that is completely impersonal.
Therefore, to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is completely illogical and unscientific. Experience always manifests with personal characteristics, and so it follows logically and scientifically that the origin of all experience also manifests with personal characteristics.
Purushadasa 2 years ago
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Posted to help irishmauddib cease his straw-man logical fallacies.
Purushadasa 2 years ago
I posted the same question to you again therefore in order to help you cease your avoiding the question.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 2
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My answer is that what you wrote is illogical and incorrect, and what I wrote is different from what you wrote, is perfectly logical, and is perfectly correct.
Nice job shooting down your own statement and not coming close to mine, though!
Purushadasa 2 years ago
Just calling something illogical and correct does not suddenly make it take on that attribute, just like calling an orange green does not make it turn green.
When you are ready to actually explain WHY it is incorrect or actually answer the question I asked you, then I am here for you.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 4
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You stated that your own statement was incorrect, while wrongly imagining that you were referencing my statement. Your brain is too dull to apprehend the fact that my statement was different from yours. I'll refresh your memory:
Purushadaas 2 years ago
So you wont tell me where I am wrong (or cant) and you wont answer the question I asked (or cant).
Fair enough, come back to me when you can!
irishmauddib 2 years ago 4
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All experience ever referenced manifests with personal characteristics.
Therefore, to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is totally illogical and unscientific. Since all experience always manifests with personal characteristics, it follows logically and scientifically that the origin of all experience also manifests with personal characteristics.
Purushadaas 2 years ago
Again answer the question and show me how I am wrong in what I said. Here it is again to remind you:
Since all experience is personal (x has characteristic y - x is experience y is it being personal) therefore it follows that the origin has also got characteristic y or it follows logically that the origin of all experience also manifests it.
So yes, what I said is accurate, and you wont or cant tell me why it is not or answer my question
irishmauddib 2 years ago 6
Do you think posting it a second time somehow makes it more correct? Wow, you follow illogic with more illogic.
Again I ask you, just because thing X exhibits a characteristic (experience exhibits the personal) where do you get the notion that this means it therefore follows that whatever created it also has the same characteristic? You seem totally unable to clarify or answer that.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 3
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Dude, he doesn't have to answer that because it's your theory, not his. It's NOT what he said, numb-nuts -- it's what YOU said!
I read what he said, and it makes perfect sense, and it's quite different from what you wrote.
Fucking idiot!
Ravloma 2 years ago
More insults. Still no point made. Still just trolling. Next.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
Still waiting for a point Ravloma. Can you make one?
irishmauddib 2 years ago 5
All experience ever referenced, in any and all instances, manifests with personal characteristics. There is no documented example of any experience that is completely impersonal.
Therefore, to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is very illogical and unscientific. Experience always manifests with personal characteristics, and so it follows logically and scientifically that the origin of all experience also manifests with personal characteristics.
Purushadasa 2 years ago
What are you trying to say here? That because thing X exhibits characteristic Y, then whatever was used to form X also has to exhibit characteristic Y? And you call this logic? Try again sir, this is an awful first attempt.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
Actually, no, that's not what I said, but yes, what you said is very illogical. What you said is a classic logical fallacy, in fact -- it's called the straw-man fallacy.
Stop being so dumb.
Purushadasa 2 years ago
Ah name calling, this means you have no points left. Remember insults demean only the insulter, not the target. As I said, care to try again, this is an awful first and second attempt.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
I'm looking at what was written here, and I can't see where anyone called you a name. What name were you supposedly called?
AMolvar 2 years ago
Not sure who you are or what it has to do with you, but here is the quote: Stop being so dumb.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 2
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No need to resort to name-calling. I just asked a simple question.
That means you have run out of points.
AMolvar 2 years ago
You are taking me quoting someone else and suggesting I am the one saying it? This is just trolling. If you wish to troll a reaction out of me you will fail.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 2
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Dude, you are such a pussy.
Ravloma 2 years ago
More name calling. Insults demean only the insulter. Come back when you have a point to make. Trolling doesnt work here.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 4
Lets show how what I said was accurate. First you claimed that: All experience ever manifests with personal characteristics. This is like I said: Thing X has characteristic Y.
You then proceeded to say therefore that: to assume that the origin of all experience is impersonal is very illogical and unscientific. In other words that therefore the origin of it must also have characteristic Y.
So I am agog to hear where my description of your position is inaccurate.
irishmauddib 2 years ago
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That is not what the other guy said. He's right -- you're employing straw-man logical fallacy. I just looked it up on wiki.
AMolvar 2 years ago
Just saying that does not make it true. If you want to explain how then I am agog to hear it.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 2
Great to see so many views on this video!!!
aZeroGodist 2 years ago 6
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atheism is a belief in "nothing" takes just as much faith...there will always be a stalemate when it comes to arguments for and against god.that's why it is a belief and not a fact...this author is using a technique to refute an argument- it is called reductio ad absurd um or loosely translated- reduced to absurdity.. .to me at least- religion is corrupt...that doesn't mean there is no creator... of course maybe a knife can evolve into a spoon too!
porpoisefathom 2 years ago
Not sure what your point is. In the absence of any evidence for this creator, we simply proceed without that assumption. Thats all that is required.
If we open ourselves up to what you just said then we would have to operate on any crazy notion people come up with, simply because its absurdness doesnt mean it is not true.
The fact is I have never been shown evidence for such an entity and until such time as I have been I will resist its use in public society, politics, education and science.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 9
Also your "belief in nothing" comment smacks of strawman and trolling I am afraid. I think you will find that what most people who do not accept god think is not "nothing" but "We dont know, so lets find out".
We do not know what caused it all, we just see no evidence that the answer is a god. Maybe it is! It could be! However no one has shown me the first shred of evidence to suggest it is so.
So we keep looking.
irishmauddib 2 years ago 5