It is easy to say things against aikido if you are not a practitioner of the art, but once you try to learn the art with an open mind as in with all other arts, you will learn the effectiveness of it.
Every art is unique in its own ways and all styles are effective art of self-defense. Aikido is as effective as any other arts, and I have applied it several times with one and multiple attackers to a real fight and it worked.
Your opinions are all good but it would be better if you try it.
The most people wont understand, that these art is about a canon of movements, which is not to seen as it `It happens - i react´-thing! Even if theres only a 10% street fight chance, the mastership of aikido wont be useless for the enhancement of ones self-picture.
These videos are seen by both the experts and the novice and everything in between. Fortunatley or Unfortunatley, we also get to view their comments based on their level of expertise. Here you get to deal with the non believers with the written word. When you run a dojo ( school) you have to deal with them on the spot. Much more challenging.
Nice randoi - love the control and awareness! Maybe have been more suitable for 2nd dan test rather than 3rd dan due to lack of many multiple opponents at once, but still this nage was impressive.
Silly how so many commenters have no experience with true Martial Arts or real violence. If lower level classes dealth with the speed and intensity of a real attack either the defender or the attacker would, in most cases be dibilitated. Training and demonstrations have to be slow and choreographed for ease in visualization.
see the 8 man coming at you wont take turns running at you and there not just gonna try and grab you if you tyr this while getting jumped you will probly end up in the hospital or worse
its funny how people actually think this stuff will work against a mugger witha knife once you goto grab his wrist and he slits ur hand ur done
now this mixed with some boxing and some outher techiques is beastly but this alone is not
@with33 ever hear of a uke and nage ? this is in a dojo... they arent going to go full-force... dojos are for practicing the mechanics of the art, NOT hurting people with it =]... its a practice
@with33 it's supposed to be a pressure test for a grading. In a similar vein a boxer out on the street can't expect the bell to ring after a couple of minutes and go for a breather as he would in an actual boxing match. Let me see you trying to run back to your corner when you're being jumped. It's just not going to work.
you ever see somone be jumped one at a time? you ever bin in a fight? because this shit rite here in a real fight life or death fight wont do shit but get you killed
i can understand if this is a practice ect not ment tobe used forreal defense but anyone who thinks this shit will work in a real fight will get there asses beat after being laughed at
@with33 please do shut up. You're just looking for an argument dude. The purpose of what is shown in the video and how effective I think it is, is clearly shown in the description. Learn to read. Have a nice day being "deadly on the streets".
The Randori was in my opinion perfect, as said previously there are many vids on the net that show the uke presenting themselves and inviting the technique. I have only seen a few 8 man Randori and this is one of if not the best one i have seen, i have to agree the randomness of the numbers of the uke's being called keeps everyone involved on their toes. Well done to all involved and Thank you for a great video that promotes Aikido in a positive way.
Absolutely fantastic test - what I saw of it anyway, as I'm sure it went a little longer than this. Interesting method of numbering the Uke's for Randori and then calling their numbers randomly.
i like the way that most of these strikes from the knife are at least in the spirit of being moderately realistic (i.e. straight forward).. i'm also pleased to see that the throwing practice at the end showed the attackers actually trying rather than just presenting themselves to be thrown like so many other (shitty) aikido videos. good job i say.
Damn man I was about to praise you for your test but then I see all these cussing comments...I'm not sure what to think. I'm not expert but it looked pretty good to me. Having a live blade is pretty scary, and you had some nice escapes there (well I thought they were nice, but again I have no aikido training). Anyways, keep practicing.
Some of the comments are honest constructive critique. Others are just idiots. The quality in the video is no where near as good as it should be for 3rd dan. Which is why partly why I don't train with that group any longer.
However facing up to a live blade and dealing with 8 random attackers is difficult. But again some of the attackers gave in too easily. I don't even throw some of them and they're falling around all over the place.
@aikiwolfie I was taught that one had to flow when training with fellow students, which is why when I see the video, I know why they're "falling around all over the place". Serious injury can happen if your uke doesn't flow and try to resist being thrown like that. If they saw that you had them, they just went with it. Sounds like you wanted some 'scrappers' though, who'd just be all over you no matter what you did. That can be very good, and very bad. But anywho, g'job.
@Fuzion I was taught the same thing. But in my experience it leads to over compliant uke and is far too convenient an excuse for people who perform a technique wrong.
There's a difference between flowing with or following a technique and falling over because it's "expected". Some of the uke in this video did a good job. Others didn't.
Really? So you think challenging people you think are shit at martial arts is the way to prove your own abilities? That does seem like a bit of an odd approach. But I've seen stranger things in life.
This young man would not even be close to the level of Shodan let alone Sandan in my association! This style of Aikido is the very reason why the art gets bad press for Dancing!! This is worse than dancing!! Kevin, please do not attempt to subdue an attacker in real life! You WILL get hurt!!
Funny you mention that. I have been in real fights. I'm still here.
Never heard of the Shinko Aikikai. Has it been around long? I tried to view your video. But it's not working. How are the DVD sales coming along? Do you sell many?
Or maybe it's because I haven't bought the DVD yet. I can view everybody elses videos just fine. But not yours.
Something I've noticed over the years about teachers who are critical and dismissive of other Aikido groups. They're all in it for the money. They all have books and DVDs to sell.
I don't hold my hakama up. I tuck it in. Simple solution to a simple problem. Just not bothering is laziness.
I guess they are then. In some respects. Yes. All the original Aikidoka wore hakama. Didn't seem to do them any harm. O Sensei wore a hakama. All of his original students seem to have picked up the foot work just fine.
Im not saying you cant pick it up just that its a pain in the arse i can do without and just for the record tomiki was an origial student. He was arguablely Ueshibas top student. He was the first student to be given an 8th dan and argueably the best aiki teacher period. He didnt wear one. If your going to tuck it in why bother. Why not just do everyone a favour and leave it at home?
Your wrong simple as that if uke just made life difficult then everything would always be randori. You need to take into account the levels of aikido. level 1 Kakarigeiko, level 2 hikitategeiko , level 3 randori and if you like level 4 competition. Level tori should feel under pressure yes and uke should be commited but hes not tricky he takes the fall even if he knows he could have go out of it be it cos it was plain crap or he saw his window for counter. But he dosent cos its not his job
Why do you need to be in randori for uke to offer resistance to a technique?
I have to admit I am having a seriously hard time coming to grips with the fact that you think resistance can't be offered in a simple paired practice going through a set technique.
It dosnt need to be in randori to offer a bit of resistance you can do that in kata in genral practice. All im saying is there is a time and place for everything. Your saying that uke should never fall unless he has to but you wont learn anything like that. You need to help each other at times thats how you learn. If you did it your way everything would be randori. Your guys in the clip are all falling because they want to. They arnt resististing they arent countering and so they shouldnt be.
Again there is a time and a place. Astudend has to learn the movements first your inside sweeps, outside, sweeps, inside turns, outside turns and uke needs to guide and help at first. You cant have resistance from day one or it just becomes a battle and you learn nothing. Its got nothing to do with sport mate. Its about building blocks to other things. There is a timee and place for everything. Times to resist times not to. As a student progresses and developes good action then yes resist more
Even without resistance it is still never ukes job to simply fall over. Even if you take a total rank beginner and build up the resistance as you go that rank beginner needs something to work with. Otherwise there's nothing telling him his technique is wrong. Uke should only be moving if things are being done correctly.
Uke must provide resistance. There must be intent behind ukes attacks. Anything less produces sloppy Aikido and sloppy martial artists.
Tomiki Aikido is not just about sport there are 6 koryu no kata that form the link to traditional styles. Many of the techniques from the koryu dai san are closely related to much of the pre war aikibudo. Hikitategeiko is a way of testing if aikido works agaist a partner who is not complient. There is a lot of crap Aikido of all styles. If practised correctly Tomiki students learn how to apply kuzush to a resisting opponent having to really work for techniques.
I don't doubt there are good tomiki style practitioners out there. But the fact is tenshinage77 started off by saying it's ukes job to fall over. Which even as a Ki Aikido practitioner I find bizarre.
Then there was the whole safety thing with the live tanto. Take the video in question here. Tori (me) is 2nd dan going for 3rd. Uke is 5th dan. Two experienced students who should know what they're doing. Why is there a safety issue?
Because we dont want people dieing the the dojo and no one gets it right everytime regardless of grade. If they did uke would never get a srike in competition would he. And as ive said ones the blade is real the attack isnt. Whats more important a real attack or a real weapon. The weapon is just an extention of the arm what on the end of it isnt important its the spirit that is. And i said ukes is to fall over in Kakarigeiko. Its not his job to fall over in randori. Time and place remember.
I'd argue a real attack with foam rubber is even more pointless. Get it wrong and there's no real danger element.
When the difference between getting a technique right or wrong is walking off the mat or being stretchered off the mat, the mind tends to be that bit more focused. Martial arts are dangerous by their nature. We train to hurt people. We might not want to hurt people. But that is what we are doing.
Its not more pointless because its real unlike your live bladed attacks. I repete you will never be 100% commited with a live blade when its your mate in front of you. As humans we recognice things can go wrong and i dont care what anyone says part of you will hold back. That wont happen with a foam tanto. Whats more important a real attack or a real tanto. Id argue learing how to defend against a fake attack is alot more pointless.
Ukes job is to make your life difficult. Simple as that. If uke isn't making the techniques difficult then uke is pushing you to perform. that being the case uke might as well fall over on command.
I think you need to appreciate the Tomiki style of Aikido isn't the be all and end all of Aikido. There's a lot more out there besides. Some good,some bad. Most don't agree with your point of view.
If your ukes in that vidio were making life difficult they would be countering you and thinking alot more about how they attack. Useing more team work for example. But they dont cos then the game stops and thats not what its about here. I tori should feel pressure from uke but in the dojo uke should also feel safe that tori isnt going to break his arms. There are many extra bits left out of practice that you would add on the streets. They are left out to protect uke because its dangerous.
Yes they would. Read a little more. I've said several times the standard in that organisation wasn't what I was looking for. I've said several times some of those uke simply fell over with no effort on my part at all.
The videos I have posted to date show the results of training in an environment where the student feels safe. Where the uke aren't making any attempt to make life difficult. Where basically the martial effectiveness of Aikido has been lost and replaced with bullshit.
Ive said before they fall because its Kakarigeiko they are meant to fall. You have a lack of understanding of the levels as i said. Its building blocks you cant go all out from randori from day one you need to build up to it. Nothing has been lost its just a different level. When your doing Kakarigeiko your doing Kakarigeiko and when your doing randori its randori. You dont mix the two. Kakarigeiko isnt real it never has been and was never meant to be and never will be.
I've said before uke is never "meant" to fall. Nothing you say will make me think otherwise.
If uke simply falls over you can do the technique any which way you like and get away with all sorts of crap. There's no point to that sort of practice. I don't care what it's called. It's wrong.
You just cant seem to grasp the fact that there is a time & place for everything. If uke allways fell only when he had to no one would learn anything. The reality would be either a stailmate from day one of the biggerman just muscleing the smaller man & thats not aikido. A tiny girl should be able to make this work against mr universe but with out both partys helping each other that will never happen. Sometimes uke allows it to happen. Then when the forms right it will work with resistance.
A tiny girl against Mr. Universe. Funny you mention Mr. Universe. I saw him at a demo the other day. A tiny girl isn't making anything work against him. Everything has it's limits.
Now what you can't seem to grasp is the fact I've spent 10 years studying Aikido in a club where people fell over just because they thought they were supposed to. I'm simply not convinced it works as a teaching aid. I've been there, seen it, done it and got nothing from it.
If you really belive that i suggest you go train with Dr Lee Ah Loi for a while. You can be as unconvinced as you like but as i said out system is tested traditional systems arnt. Well not in the same way anyway. When ever ive trained with traditional guys they never do randori. They never have a sistuation where you have two toris. A situation where everything you do is going to be resisted and countered. We do and that cant really be argued with.
Hey im not putting her down shes one of the best out there. Im just useing her as an example of a woman that can make her aikido work against big men.
Traditional? You think Ki Aikido is traditional? Please do define traditional and name the clubs and teachers you trained with.
As for not being tested or tested against multiple attackers. Did you watch the video? You did take note of the big shiny sharp tanto right? Which you think isn't "safe" enough.
Now while I do admit not all of the uke were particularly testing. There were 8 of them attacking at random. Even with crap uke, that is difficult to pull off.
Ok maybe traditional was the wrong word. Maybe i shoyld have said non competative aikido then. As ive said before the big sharp shiny shap tanto isnt a plus its a minus. The attacks are not 100% commited so they arnt real. Id be far more impressed if the tanto was foam cos id know the attacks were real. I didnt mean not being tested in that sence i meant not being tested in a randori sence. With a skilled man doing his best to screw everything up for you.
Wait a minute. If the sight of a big sharp shiny tanto makes experience Aikidoka useless how can training with it be a minus? Aikido is first and foremost a martial art. Not a sport.
When we're not using the live tanto we use a wooden tanto. But as soon as the live tanto appears people begin to have second thoughts. That shouldn't be happening. The techniques are the same. Training with a foam rubber tanto won't help them get over that mental block.
And training with a live one wont either. Useing a real tanto just means uke wont make the attacks real. Tori will naturaly worry about getting stabbed and uke will also worry about killing his mate and wont give it 100% commitment so the attck isnt real. I garentee you if we trained together with a real tanto and i commit 100% at some point in the night you are going to die. Its a nonsence. It takes time to build these skills and just changeing to a real blade isnt going to make it all good.
I know that you have said that you no longer train with the group in the clip, but the performance of the technique in the knife defence section are no more realistic than me practising tanto hikitategeiko. The turn over on the kote gaeshi would not work if uke was showing any type of resistance. The technique at 35 seconds has no kuzushi.
Good point you know we could pick out any number of reasons why alot of this wouldnt work in randori. Any number of oppertunity for counters. People can say what they like about us tomiki guys but one thing we know is how to turn things around, screw things up. Make a man work for it because its not randori and not ukes job to be tricky at this point.
Well hes not resisting is he which he should be by your way of thinking. You cant be a little big pregnant mate. And your guys are just falling over. The attacks arnt strong either. If you want to pick holes lets go for it. ukes foot is moveing before the tanto give the game away. just send him a telegram why dont you. They are makeing it as easy as can be practicly. Toris techniques lack detail especialy tenkai kote gaeshi. Id turn out of every single one of them and counter .
And how exactly is it you know uke isn't resisting? He might not have made the technique impossible. But he wasn't on the floor like a rag doll either.
Once again. It's never ukes job to simply fall over.
Hey your the one expressing the need for live blades not me. But either way aikido should work again a real attack with full resistance and it will provideing all the principles and detail is in place.
I dont need to have whats in the hand means nothing its just something comeing towards me. An extention of the hand. Im more interested in a real attack that a fake one with a real weapon. Please tell me do you train with real guns to. We use a rubber one. You know why because its safer and we dont want to have accident. But as long as the principles are there. Rubber or real it doesnt matter, same with any weapon you choose to mention. But by your way of thinking you must use real guns right?
Guns? No. Don't train with guns. The whole Aikido against a gun party piece is a gimmick. Nothing more.
If someone is going to shoot you then it's likely from a greater distance than you can cover before the bullet does it's damage. Nobody with half a brain sticks a gun in your back. Real life isn't the movies. It just doesn't work that way.
Gun crime isn't such a huge issue where I live. Knife crime on the other hand is.
So we practice techniques in accordance to where we live now do we? And if you are going down this road why practice things from wrist grabs i mean its highly unlikely to happen especial a double handed grip round the back. I mean i dont tend to wear a sword so i might just as well not bother with that. Yes a gunman might have more distance but then again he might not. Its not unrealistic for a guy to try to rob you at close range with a gun and its not going to hurt to know how to deal with it
Who know maybe unlkes i try but i do know that by practicee my principles will improve regardless of the weapon. I know that my other techniques will get better from it so its all good.
Yes with regular practice you will get better against the weapons you are familiar with. That's what practice does. It gets you familiar with the situation.
However to suddenly be faced with the very real and present danger of a live blade is something very different from playing points games with a foam rubber tanto. It's really not the same thing. There's no comparison between them.
If you want to criticise it, I suggest you try it out and get some first hand experience. Start out slow.
besides which it doesnt really matter if its likely or unlikely its still practicing good principles. Impromeing your movemnt posture etc etc. That transfures to other techniques.
No im being sensible thats all. You are more interesting in crap attacks that look flashy to un untrained observer because hes impressed by the shiney blade. Im interesting in a real attack. Whats your real blade worth if the attack is crap. Its not worth anything. It doesnt matter because i dont ponce around with live blades. Real attack foam blade hits me is doesnt matter. It can hit me a milion times doesnt matter. I can have full focus on improving my avoidence rather
Clearly you have missed the point as to why I posted these videos.
How many times have I said the standard at that club wasn't good enough which is why I left? Are you even paying attention? Maybe the shiny blade is still playing on your mind.
If it's such a trivial matter give it a go. Come back and tell me if it's a different experience from a foam tanto.
of course you are being tested im not taking that away from you. I meant tested in the sence in a different sence. You talk about uke should never just go dowm so ok by your way of thinking all those guys should be trying to screw you up. If we are playing that game when i strike with the tanto when you grab me im going to counter im going to attemp to throw you. You cant do that all the time. Time and place as i say. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing in the video though.
Even is uke doesn't add in a counter there's still no need for uke to simply fall over. We're not rag dolls. We can still provide resistance.
It is never the job of uke simply to fall down. If uke simply falls down you have no idea what really works and what doesn't. There's no point of comparison. There's no way to tell if you're improving or getting worse.
If uke doesn't make you work for the technique. Uke becomes pointless.
As i said there is a time and place. Your genral training is the time to give a little resistance and then give each other feed back on if it worked or not. You can make him work for it then. You can make him work for it in Hikitategeiko and in randori for sure. If it works in randori then you know you are fine. But its defined uke does not resist or get tricky in Kakarigeiko . Like i said different levels of practice to work on different areas. Wiser men than us devised this.
If you are taking up that art yes. But this is not that art. Its nothing to do with the style of aikido. In your vido none of those guys are resisting if they were you would have to work for your technique like in a randori sence. If you had 8 guys there that didnt want to be thrown that video would be completely different. Style dosent matter ive never come across one club in any style where uke always makes life difficult. look at clips right back to ueshiba.
Pointing out the flaws in the video is a bit redundant when I've already said the standard was crap and the video is one of a series of videos I posted all concerning the same organisation. Some of which show even crappier Aikido. There are even uke being thrown by a 1st kyu without a finger being laid on them!
Sorry what was your point again? Was it this video isn't realistic? No shit batman. I pretty much said that in the description and the whole way through all the comments posted here.
No sure if this is aimed at me or Tenchinage. I started Aikido in 1975 under the instruction of Roland Tann. 1979 studied under the instruction of Ken Broome. Haba visited Kens club on a regular basis whilst he was in the UK. Ken introduced me to Dr Lee Ah Loi who was my principle instructor from 1982 until she retired to Australia 2003
maybe your teacher wasnt a fan of randori or maybe you didnt stick around long enough i dont know the reasons but there are times for resistance, countering and making life difficult and thats randori be it tanto or toshu. Just not in Kakarigeiko . Kakarigeiko is to put the pressure on you, help sharpen your reflexes etc. Its a tool for learning nothing else.
I studied with my previous teacher for 10 years. In that time I watch the standard of Aikido being practised at that club plummet as the teacher began to cater for those who need to feel safe before they are willing to train.
Wow, the eight man attack seems like a real great exercise. One question though, doesn't the live blade kinda limit what uke is able to do? Of course, you trust that the person being tested would be able to blend with any kind of attack uke would throw, but the attacks did look kind of toned down. Might just be me, but I was just wondering.
Well the video is an extract from a grading. So Uke is limited to what is required for the grading. Like everything else uke has to gauge the attack to his partners ability.
Take away the tanto and replace it with a bokken. A cracked skull isn't on my Christmas list. Some experience with the live tanto is important though. It tends to put things into perspective in away nothing else can achieve.
I've seen a lot of students suddenly become useless just because they see a shiny blade.
I tend disagree on the live blade issue. As soon as you put a live blade into the game it all becomes fake because uke will not be 100% commited in his attack. Unless hes a complete nut job and you dont really need that in the dojo. If you train with a man day in day out hes your friend you know if he dont get his part right and you stab him its over. If its not a live blade however you will be 100% commited making the attack real which is more important.
It doesn't show up very well in the video. But the live tanto actually went through my hakama on the first attack. If you listen carefully you'll hear the grading officer asking me if I'm okay. The uke is a guy I trained with for years.
If your uke is worth training with then they'll give good solid attacks every time. It shouldn't matter if your friends or not.
The element of danger in your training is extremely important.
Then you might as well say the same for every techniche then but no as a tori you should look after your uke with weapons or otherwise. To get the best out of aikido your uke should feel safe with you. people that muller there ukes just end up with no one wanting to train with them. You wont become a better akidoka mullering your ukes. Put a live blade ito it and soon you wont have a club if everyones 100% commited because the reality is you wont always get out the way. Ive done enough .......
Your uke should feel safe? Aikido is a "martial art". Uke should look after him/her self. I accept we have to judge an individuals ability and perform to that level. But if you're constantly compensating for a lack of ability you will go no where. Especially if tori is compensating for uke.
Certainly in a situation like a grading life should be hard and awkward and uncomfortable. The uke select for the job should know what they are doing and be able to keep up the pressure.
Yes uke should feel safe there should be a bond of trust between you and your partner. If uke dosent trust tori he wont feel safe and if he doesnt feel safe he will be tence and the aikido suffers. Not only ukes but toris to. Yes its a martial art but its one that need both off you to help each other to learn it. Thats why in the start we arnt doing battle with each other. I allow you to do the technique i dont resist i dont counter. Later in randori fine but in practice uke should fell safe.
Feeling safe should have nothing to do with it. Trust in martial arts comes from respect of other martial arts practitioners.
If you feel safe then you're comfortable. You should never be comfortable in your training. Your training partners should always be pushing you on.
Of course if you need to feel safe to train then I guess that means you can't attend seminars with strangers. How safe can you be in a room full of strangers. How do people ever get started?
You should always feel comfortable in your training you are meant to be helping each other not killing each other. It shouldnt matter if its a stranger or not. You should be confident that you are going to come out with your limbs intact because doing the damage is the easy bit its the detail that makes the differece between it working & not working & that can be practiced softly and safely. There is a time & a place for the rough stuff and thats in randori. Thats what competition is there for.
When you're comfortable, you begin to make mistakes. These mistakes become bad habits. Once a habit is formed it's a nightmare to break it and change it to something more beneficial.
Students should never feel comfortable while training. They should always feel they are being pushed to perform to their best.
Thats what you have kata for. Kata is where you get the detail right, get out of bad habits or preferably not pick them up in the first place but thats an ideal world i know. And one should feel very comfortable and safe in kata thats for sure. All im saying is there is a time and place for everything but its broken down. You wouldnt start screwing tori up during a kata performace at a gradeing would you? No because its just a demonstration of priciples and you are helping each other.
Hey at the end off the day we put our aikido to the test in competition you dont. We test it against skilled men that wont just take the fall ( in the right situation) You dont. We know our aikido works thats what matters.
I don't wait until the end of the day to put my Aikido to the test. I test it every training session with a uke willing to make me work for the technique.
as people get old they cant do the things they used to and with the very young dont have joints developed enough for certain techniques and they should feel safe that they arnt going to get mullared and be out of work/school for months after a class. But regardless of any of that which you can disagree with all you like i dont really care you dont train at my club but in Kakarigeiko ukes job is not to be tricky. Any one of those guys could have countered but its not there job.
tanto randori to know this. If you are 100% commited with a live blade you are in effect trying to kill uke. Unless you are a nut job you wont be doing that with your mates. A percentage of you will be holding back at which point its fake. With a foam competition tanto at least the attack is real. Whats in the hand doesnt really matter. Live blades arnt used in aikido competion for a reason and thats safety. The attacks can then be real and you wont have a dozen dead bodies after a session.
Dude read what I've posted. I've already said there is an allowance for an individuals ability. However even when allowing for each individuals ability uke should be making life difficult and all attacks should be committed.
I know from experience anything less leads to a decline in standards.
If your making any sort of allowence then you arnt 100% commited simple as that and i stand by the fact no uke is going to be 100% commited no matter how skilled tori is. Practice with live weapons has nothing going for it.
Very true. But I don't think I ever said it had to be "100%". I said the attack must be "committed". Which means the attack must be sufficiently strong to push tori and make them work for the technique. The attack must be strong enough to take tori beyond their comfort zone.
If you're not doing that then you're just going through the motions.
Sorry its either commited or its not . You cant be a little bit pregnant mate. A foam tanto allows for a proper attack thats safe but serves the same perpose. There is a reason live blade are not used in competition aikido.
I guess none of the attacks you offer your training partners are "100% committed" then since they all need to feel safe. I mean you might trip on your hakama and fall over.
Well id not wear one of those things anyway and i think that anyy teacher that wears one isnt doing the best by his students but thats another argument. Not that there arnt some superb akidoka out there that do where them of course.
Please explain? While the hakama is mostly there for the sake of tradition, it does serve a very important purpose. It makes life difficult. It can be hard to move quickly in a hakama.
Ok ill explane. They cover up vital footwork. Its extemely difficult to see whats going on kind of like a swan under. You see the gracefullness up top but nothing happening below and whats happening below. As my teacher once said to me if i wear a hakama i have to keep lifting it up to show you whats going on undernieth so why bother wearing it at all. Students benifit more from a sensai not wearing it i feel. plus they are a pain in the arse in so many ways. Look nice but thats about for me.
Well imagine that. There's something about martial arts that requires a bit of effort. When I've had to teach someone the foot work I've never found lifting my hakama to be an inconvenience. More to the point. If the student doesn't understand what's happening with the feet then the student should ask the question.
Frankly that reason simply demonstrates laziness on the teachers part. Lifting your hakama is hardly a hardship.
Its not lazy its just doing the best by your students. If you holding up a poxy hakama then your upper body isnt exactly corret is it. Its just much easier not to bother. If thats lazynes so be it at the end of the day tomiki didnt wear one, uno , didnt, yamada dont, Shishida dont, Nariyama dont , saito dont, uno dont . All lazy teachers? With a hakama you can never see the footwork so if you constantly have to ask its constantly taking time. Time better spent elsewhere.
another question: whenever i see the tests, for any martial art test too, the other students know the techniques and obviously they roll to prevent injury from the actual technique. but hte question - if they know the same techniques, couldnt they also reverse them or prevent themselves from getting into those mistakes? so then the martial artist being tested would need to be doubly badass? externally, it looks like the attackers play the weak henchmenrole kinda
Ah nice observation! In all honesty some of the uke in the video were simply falling down. The falling standards is one of the reasons I stopped training with that group.
In the video uke is playing the role of the attacker an is providing only the "required" attacks. So uke isn't free to do as uke pleases. So strictly speaking it's not true randori. But uke is still free to choose from a range of attacks. So tori still doesn't know exactly what's going to be next.
Yes there is always a window of opputunety for counter but the more skill tori has the smaller your window. There will be times you practice counters and even counters to counters but this just isnt that time. Both people have a job to do and ukes job in this instance isnt to be tricky and counter. If this was randori neither man would want to be throw and it becoimes like a game of chess. until one of you makes makes a mistake.
Excellent. I've a question for you and the aikidokas how many styles of Aikido this discipline have and what is the difference between them? I'll soon start to learn this martial art but need more info about this topic. Thx in advance
How many styles of Aikido are there or how many styles are used in the video? In the video there is one style being used. It's called Ki Aikido. There are about 5 major styles or groups of within Aikido circles and then countless break away or satellite groups and god knows how many independents.
If you take up Aikido. Take note of the quality of the students and the demeanour and attitude of the teacher. If you get any bad vibes. Walk away.
The style is Ki Aikido. But I don't train any longer. The teacher became more interested in building his own little empire and garnishing "respect" than maintaining standards. So I left.
Which is sad really. As Ki Aikido goes it used to be a decent club.
If you view the Steven Seagal videos, he has several people rush the student all at once. Not an easy thing to defend against. In a street fight, if you take one guy apart, people start hesitating to be the next to hit the pavement. Most aikido techniques in the dojo do not involve realistic, modern-day attacks, but your techniques transfer easily when a real attack does come on the street. I just wish more instructors would just use "real world" senarios in the first place.
Umm ... Steven Seagal? I really haven't seen much of hsi Aikido beyond the movies. As we all know movie fu is staged. A lot more staged than anything I've posted.
Sometimes I forget these videos are here since I'm no longer practicing. But thanks for watching.
oh hey just watched the video... was awesome... i pracrise aikido in scotland and ive not long started, bout month and a half but already loving it haha.
Ehm yeah jsut for the record steven segal is a seventh dan but refused the grade of 8 and higher !!
It is easy to say things against aikido if you are not a practitioner of the art, but once you try to learn the art with an open mind as in with all other arts, you will learn the effectiveness of it.
Every art is unique in its own ways and all styles are effective art of self-defense. Aikido is as effective as any other arts, and I have applied it several times with one and multiple attackers to a real fight and it worked.
Your opinions are all good but it would be better if you try it.
jasonme2009 2 months ago
@jasonme2009 martial arts aren't effective. People are.
aikiwolfie 1 month ago
its funny how the only people who ever hate on this are people who never practiced martial arts and dont even understand the concept of it
darkdrake13 3 months ago
once again i'm emberrased by the low level of aikido forms!!
remhel123 5 months ago
@remhel123 if you're embarased by what you see on-line may I suggest you stop watching?
aikiwolfie 5 months ago 4
The most people wont understand, that these art is about a canon of movements, which is not to seen as it `It happens - i react´-thing! Even if theres only a 10% street fight chance, the mastership of aikido wont be useless for the enhancement of ones self-picture.
11Kralle 5 months ago
just say hayy yaaaa and they will get the picture
dhartmiester 6 months ago
These videos are seen by both the experts and the novice and everything in between. Fortunatley or Unfortunatley, we also get to view their comments based on their level of expertise. Here you get to deal with the non believers with the written word. When you run a dojo ( school) you have to deal with them on the spot. Much more challenging.
bonnieandclyde93 6 months ago
Nice randoi - love the control and awareness! Maybe have been more suitable for 2nd dan test rather than 3rd dan due to lack of many multiple opponents at once, but still this nage was impressive.
utubesqueeze 6 months ago
Excellent randori, excellent job. Quite impressive.
mandinka323 8 months ago
Silly how so many commenters have no experience with true Martial Arts or real violence. If lower level classes dealth with the speed and intensity of a real attack either the defender or the attacker would, in most cases be dibilitated. Training and demonstrations have to be slow and choreographed for ease in visualization.
donoberloh 9 months ago
THERE ARE NO AIKIDO DOJOS WITHIN 45 MINUTES OF MY HOUSE !! I HATE LIFE RIGHT NOW !!
ABluishBaby 9 months ago
see the 8 man coming at you wont take turns running at you and there not just gonna try and grab you if you tyr this while getting jumped you will probly end up in the hospital or worse
its funny how people actually think this stuff will work against a mugger witha knife once you goto grab his wrist and he slits ur hand ur done
now this mixed with some boxing and some outher techiques is beastly but this alone is not
with33 9 months ago
@with33 ever hear of a uke and nage ? this is in a dojo... they arent going to go full-force... dojos are for practicing the mechanics of the art, NOT hurting people with it =]... its a practice
ABluishBaby 9 months ago
@with33 it's supposed to be a pressure test for a grading. In a similar vein a boxer out on the street can't expect the bell to ring after a couple of minutes and go for a breather as he would in an actual boxing match. Let me see you trying to run back to your corner when you're being jumped. It's just not going to work.
aikiwolfie 9 months ago 3
you ever see somone be jumped one at a time? you ever bin in a fight? because this shit rite here in a real fight life or death fight wont do shit but get you killed
i can understand if this is a practice ect not ment tobe used forreal defense but anyone who thinks this shit will work in a real fight will get there asses beat after being laughed at
with33 9 months ago
@with33 please do shut up. You're just looking for an argument dude. The purpose of what is shown in the video and how effective I think it is, is clearly shown in the description. Learn to read. Have a nice day being "deadly on the streets".
aikiwolfie 9 months ago 2
The Randori was in my opinion perfect, as said previously there are many vids on the net that show the uke presenting themselves and inviting the technique. I have only seen a few 8 man Randori and this is one of if not the best one i have seen, i have to agree the randomness of the numbers of the uke's being called keeps everyone involved on their toes. Well done to all involved and Thank you for a great video that promotes Aikido in a positive way.
MandalorTheWise 10 months ago
By the way, if you ever find yourself in Ottawa, Canada please do drop by our dojo (Ottawa Aikikai on 155 Loretta Ave North)
Dalwhinnie15 10 months ago
Absolutely fantastic test - what I saw of it anyway, as I'm sure it went a little longer than this. Interesting method of numbering the Uke's for Randori and then calling their numbers randomly.
Dalwhinnie15 10 months ago
Dude!! This is something! Congrats...
bonnetsipka 1 year ago
very nice, kevin lynch
1987jkilla 1 year ago
Kentou.
h4ku89 1 year ago
Thanks again to everybody for the feedback. :)
aikiwolfie 1 year ago
While your grading partners were not the most enthusiastic I could see your balance and compusure was never a problem, loved the throw from 2.43 ;-)
Semimaru 1 year ago
I liked the numbers thing for the 8 man attack. I think he done enough to pass.
mdtt1983 1 year ago
i wonder if all these haters have vids we can see of them well done and congrats man
bushidoogie 1 year ago 8
@bushidoogie, thanks :).
aikiwolfie 1 year ago
very very good job!
aestala 1 year ago
One of the best aikido videos I've ever seen.
danifilth4ever 1 year ago
i like the way that most of these strikes from the knife are at least in the spirit of being moderately realistic (i.e. straight forward).. i'm also pleased to see that the throwing practice at the end showed the attackers actually trying rather than just presenting themselves to be thrown like so many other (shitty) aikido videos. good job i say.
purklefluff 1 year ago 5
Thanks :)
aikiwolfie 1 year ago
Damn man I was about to praise you for your test but then I see all these cussing comments...I'm not sure what to think. I'm not expert but it looked pretty good to me. Having a live blade is pretty scary, and you had some nice escapes there (well I thought they were nice, but again I have no aikido training). Anyways, keep practicing.
thesix107 1 year ago
Some of the comments are honest constructive critique. Others are just idiots. The quality in the video is no where near as good as it should be for 3rd dan. Which is why partly why I don't train with that group any longer.
However facing up to a live blade and dealing with 8 random attackers is difficult. But again some of the attackers gave in too easily. I don't even throw some of them and they're falling around all over the place.
Thanks for watching though.
aikiwolfie 1 year ago
@aikiwolfie I was taught that one had to flow when training with fellow students, which is why when I see the video, I know why they're "falling around all over the place". Serious injury can happen if your uke doesn't flow and try to resist being thrown like that. If they saw that you had them, they just went with it. Sounds like you wanted some 'scrappers' though, who'd just be all over you no matter what you did. That can be very good, and very bad. But anywho, g'job.
Fuzion 1 year ago
@Fuzion I was taught the same thing. But in my experience it leads to over compliant uke and is far too convenient an excuse for people who perform a technique wrong.
There's a difference between flowing with or following a technique and falling over because it's "expected". Some of the uke in this video did a good job. Others didn't.
aikiwolfie 1 year ago
Great way to practice. Thank you for sharing.
aikidoamsterdam 1 year ago
in glasgow... ynk
SnakeThePlague 2 years ago
Thanks I might look it up some time.
aikiwolfie 1 year ago
Oh yeah congratulation !!!
guiguiator 2 years ago
@guiguiator Thanks.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
There is practice with full strength in Aikido,
Gou No Keiko.
Uke tries as hard as he/she can to stop Nage from moving. In order to find the "easy" way.
SnakeThePlague 2 years ago
@SnakeThePlague Where do you train?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Just read all your comments and i have just 3 words for you,,......Full Of Shit.
Get your tracksuit back on.. Your not fit to wear a gi let alone hakama!!
You really are poor!!
alsolutions 2 years ago
Full of shit? What part was shit? The part where I said I left the group I was training with in the video because the training wasn't good enough?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
I would love to meet you on the mat young man! I would show you how to do a real cha cha cha!!
alsolutions 2 years ago
Really? So you think challenging people you think are shit at martial arts is the way to prove your own abilities? That does seem like a bit of an odd approach. But I've seen stranger things in life.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
@alsolutions You lack the humbleness to practice the way of aikido.
plasticanet 2 years ago
Shocking absolutly shocking. I wouldn't give you 4th kyu for that bag of shite.
marknic79 2 years ago
Do you study any martial arts marknic79?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
This young man would not even be close to the level of Shodan let alone Sandan in my association! This style of Aikido is the very reason why the art gets bad press for Dancing!! This is worse than dancing!! Kevin, please do not attempt to subdue an attacker in real life! You WILL get hurt!!
Very very poor!!
Sensei Scholefield 4th Dan
alsolutions 2 years ago
Funny you mention that. I have been in real fights. I'm still here.
Never heard of the Shinko Aikikai. Has it been around long? I tried to view your video. But it's not working. How are the DVD sales coming along? Do you sell many?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Might I also point out you clearly haven't read any of my other comments in this thread.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
The reason you can't view the video is because you are as poor at working a computer as you are at Aikido.
Take more lessons in both and you may improve!!
alsolutions 2 years ago
Or maybe it's because I haven't bought the DVD yet. I can view everybody elses videos just fine. But not yours.
Something I've noticed over the years about teachers who are critical and dismissive of other Aikido groups. They're all in it for the money. They all have books and DVDs to sell.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
I really like the shapes in the randori.
morningdial 2 years ago
I don't hold my hakama up. I tuck it in. Simple solution to a simple problem. Just not bothering is laziness.
I guess they are then. In some respects. Yes. All the original Aikidoka wore hakama. Didn't seem to do them any harm. O Sensei wore a hakama. All of his original students seem to have picked up the foot work just fine.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Im not saying you cant pick it up just that its a pain in the arse i can do without and just for the record tomiki was an origial student. He was arguablely Ueshibas top student. He was the first student to be given an 8th dan and argueably the best aiki teacher period. He didnt wear one. If your going to tuck it in why bother. Why not just do everyone a favour and leave it at home?
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Your wrong simple as that if uke just made life difficult then everything would always be randori. You need to take into account the levels of aikido. level 1 Kakarigeiko, level 2 hikitategeiko , level 3 randori and if you like level 4 competition. Level tori should feel under pressure yes and uke should be commited but hes not tricky he takes the fall even if he knows he could have go out of it be it cos it was plain crap or he saw his window for counter. But he dosent cos its not his job
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Why do you need to be in randori for uke to offer resistance to a technique?
I have to admit I am having a seriously hard time coming to grips with the fact that you think resistance can't be offered in a simple paired practice going through a set technique.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
It dosnt need to be in randori to offer a bit of resistance you can do that in kata in genral practice. All im saying is there is a time and place for everything. Your saying that uke should never fall unless he has to but you wont learn anything like that. You need to help each other at times thats how you learn. If you did it your way everything would be randori. Your guys in the clip are all falling because they want to. They arnt resististing they arent countering and so they shouldnt be.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Without at least some resistance the exercise is pointless. Uke should never just fall over!
This is becoming pointless. I live in the real world. You live in the world of sport. I don't do martial arts for sports.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Again there is a time and a place. Astudend has to learn the movements first your inside sweeps, outside, sweeps, inside turns, outside turns and uke needs to guide and help at first. You cant have resistance from day one or it just becomes a battle and you learn nothing. Its got nothing to do with sport mate. Its about building blocks to other things. There is a timee and place for everything. Times to resist times not to. As a student progresses and developes good action then yes resist more
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Even without resistance it is still never ukes job to simply fall over. Even if you take a total rank beginner and build up the resistance as you go that rank beginner needs something to work with. Otherwise there's nothing telling him his technique is wrong. Uke should only be moving if things are being done correctly.
Uke must provide resistance. There must be intent behind ukes attacks. Anything less produces sloppy Aikido and sloppy martial artists.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Tomiki Aikido is not just about sport there are 6 koryu no kata that form the link to traditional styles. Many of the techniques from the koryu dai san are closely related to much of the pre war aikibudo. Hikitategeiko is a way of testing if aikido works agaist a partner who is not complient. There is a lot of crap Aikido of all styles. If practised correctly Tomiki students learn how to apply kuzush to a resisting opponent having to really work for techniques.
tomikikai 2 years ago
I don't doubt there are good tomiki style practitioners out there. But the fact is tenshinage77 started off by saying it's ukes job to fall over. Which even as a Ki Aikido practitioner I find bizarre.
Then there was the whole safety thing with the live tanto. Take the video in question here. Tori (me) is 2nd dan going for 3rd. Uke is 5th dan. Two experienced students who should know what they're doing. Why is there a safety issue?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Because we dont want people dieing the the dojo and no one gets it right everytime regardless of grade. If they did uke would never get a srike in competition would he. And as ive said ones the blade is real the attack isnt. Whats more important a real attack or a real weapon. The weapon is just an extention of the arm what on the end of it isnt important its the spirit that is. And i said ukes is to fall over in Kakarigeiko. Its not his job to fall over in randori. Time and place remember.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Never seen anybody die on the mat yet. Competition is irrelevant to me. I don't train for competitions.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
I'd argue a real attack with foam rubber is even more pointless. Get it wrong and there's no real danger element.
When the difference between getting a technique right or wrong is walking off the mat or being stretchered off the mat, the mind tends to be that bit more focused. Martial arts are dangerous by their nature. We train to hurt people. We might not want to hurt people. But that is what we are doing.
It's never ukes job to simply fall over period.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Its not more pointless because its real unlike your live bladed attacks. I repete you will never be 100% commited with a live blade when its your mate in front of you. As humans we recognice things can go wrong and i dont care what anyone says part of you will hold back. That wont happen with a foam tanto. Whats more important a real attack or a real tanto. Id argue learing how to defend against a fake attack is alot more pointless.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Ukes job is to make your life difficult. Simple as that. If uke isn't making the techniques difficult then uke is pushing you to perform. that being the case uke might as well fall over on command.
I think you need to appreciate the Tomiki style of Aikido isn't the be all and end all of Aikido. There's a lot more out there besides. Some good,some bad. Most don't agree with your point of view.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
If your ukes in that vidio were making life difficult they would be countering you and thinking alot more about how they attack. Useing more team work for example. But they dont cos then the game stops and thats not what its about here. I tori should feel pressure from uke but in the dojo uke should also feel safe that tori isnt going to break his arms. There are many extra bits left out of practice that you would add on the streets. They are left out to protect uke because its dangerous.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Yes they would. Read a little more. I've said several times the standard in that organisation wasn't what I was looking for. I've said several times some of those uke simply fell over with no effort on my part at all.
The videos I have posted to date show the results of training in an environment where the student feels safe. Where the uke aren't making any attempt to make life difficult. Where basically the martial effectiveness of Aikido has been lost and replaced with bullshit.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Ive said before they fall because its Kakarigeiko they are meant to fall. You have a lack of understanding of the levels as i said. Its building blocks you cant go all out from randori from day one you need to build up to it. Nothing has been lost its just a different level. When your doing Kakarigeiko your doing Kakarigeiko and when your doing randori its randori. You dont mix the two. Kakarigeiko isnt real it never has been and was never meant to be and never will be.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
I've said before uke is never "meant" to fall. Nothing you say will make me think otherwise.
If uke simply falls over you can do the technique any which way you like and get away with all sorts of crap. There's no point to that sort of practice. I don't care what it's called. It's wrong.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
You just cant seem to grasp the fact that there is a time & place for everything. If uke allways fell only when he had to no one would learn anything. The reality would be either a stailmate from day one of the biggerman just muscleing the smaller man & thats not aikido. A tiny girl should be able to make this work against mr universe but with out both partys helping each other that will never happen. Sometimes uke allows it to happen. Then when the forms right it will work with resistance.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
A tiny girl against Mr. Universe. Funny you mention Mr. Universe. I saw him at a demo the other day. A tiny girl isn't making anything work against him. Everything has it's limits.
Now what you can't seem to grasp is the fact I've spent 10 years studying Aikido in a club where people fell over just because they thought they were supposed to. I'm simply not convinced it works as a teaching aid. I've been there, seen it, done it and got nothing from it.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
If you really belive that i suggest you go train with Dr Lee Ah Loi for a while. You can be as unconvinced as you like but as i said out system is tested traditional systems arnt. Well not in the same way anyway. When ever ive trained with traditional guys they never do randori. They never have a sistuation where you have two toris. A situation where everything you do is going to be resisted and countered. We do and that cant really be argued with.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
I studied under Dr Lee Ah Loi for many years, her aikido is very subtle in the way she applies kuzushi. The balance has gone before you even knew it.
tomikikai 2 years ago
Hey im not putting her down shes one of the best out there. Im just useing her as an example of a woman that can make her aikido work against big men.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Traditional? You think Ki Aikido is traditional? Please do define traditional and name the clubs and teachers you trained with.
As for not being tested or tested against multiple attackers. Did you watch the video? You did take note of the big shiny sharp tanto right? Which you think isn't "safe" enough.
Now while I do admit not all of the uke were particularly testing. There were 8 of them attacking at random. Even with crap uke, that is difficult to pull off.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Ok maybe traditional was the wrong word. Maybe i shoyld have said non competative aikido then. As ive said before the big sharp shiny shap tanto isnt a plus its a minus. The attacks are not 100% commited so they arnt real. Id be far more impressed if the tanto was foam cos id know the attacks were real. I didnt mean not being tested in that sence i meant not being tested in a randori sence. With a skilled man doing his best to screw everything up for you.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Wait a minute. If the sight of a big sharp shiny tanto makes experience Aikidoka useless how can training with it be a minus? Aikido is first and foremost a martial art. Not a sport.
When we're not using the live tanto we use a wooden tanto. But as soon as the live tanto appears people begin to have second thoughts. That shouldn't be happening. The techniques are the same. Training with a foam rubber tanto won't help them get over that mental block.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
And training with a live one wont either. Useing a real tanto just means uke wont make the attacks real. Tori will naturaly worry about getting stabbed and uke will also worry about killing his mate and wont give it 100% commitment so the attck isnt real. I garentee you if we trained together with a real tanto and i commit 100% at some point in the night you are going to die. Its a nonsence. It takes time to build these skills and just changeing to a real blade isnt going to make it all good.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Well I can only assume you have no experience training with a live tanto. So I have to ask how you would know the effect of such training?
Having trained with a live tanto I can testify in my case and in the case of others, that training did breakdown that mental block.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
I know that you have said that you no longer train with the group in the clip, but the performance of the technique in the knife defence section are no more realistic than me practising tanto hikitategeiko. The turn over on the kote gaeshi would not work if uke was showing any type of resistance. The technique at 35 seconds has no kuzushi.
tomikikai 2 years ago
Good point you know we could pick out any number of reasons why alot of this wouldnt work in randori. Any number of oppertunity for counters. People can say what they like about us tomiki guys but one thing we know is how to turn things around, screw things up. Make a man work for it because its not randori and not ukes job to be tricky at this point.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Ukes job in the video was to give a strong attack. The uke with the tanto did that. His job was never to simply fall over.
Am I repeating my self here? Sure feels like it.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Well hes not resisting is he which he should be by your way of thinking. You cant be a little big pregnant mate. And your guys are just falling over. The attacks arnt strong either. If you want to pick holes lets go for it. ukes foot is moveing before the tanto give the game away. just send him a telegram why dont you. They are makeing it as easy as can be practicly. Toris techniques lack detail especialy tenkai kote gaeshi. Id turn out of every single one of them and counter .
tenshinage77 2 years ago
And how exactly is it you know uke isn't resisting? He might not have made the technique impossible. But he wasn't on the floor like a rag doll either.
Once again. It's never ukes job to simply fall over.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
I agree even when practising kata uke should not just fall over. I you apply the correct principles of kuzushi uke will be in a position to throw.
tomikikai 2 years ago
Thanks for the video response. Nice video.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
You're right it's not real. It's Aikido. Real life isn't Aikido. Aikido isn't real life.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Hey your the one expressing the need for live blades not me. But either way aikido should work again a real attack with full resistance and it will provideing all the principles and detail is in place.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Have you moved to another Aikido club.
tomikikai 2 years ago
I dont need to have whats in the hand means nothing its just something comeing towards me. An extention of the hand. Im more interested in a real attack that a fake one with a real weapon. Please tell me do you train with real guns to. We use a rubber one. You know why because its safer and we dont want to have accident. But as long as the principles are there. Rubber or real it doesnt matter, same with any weapon you choose to mention. But by your way of thinking you must use real guns right?
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Guns? No. Don't train with guns. The whole Aikido against a gun party piece is a gimmick. Nothing more.
If someone is going to shoot you then it's likely from a greater distance than you can cover before the bullet does it's damage. Nobody with half a brain sticks a gun in your back. Real life isn't the movies. It just doesn't work that way.
Gun crime isn't such a huge issue where I live. Knife crime on the other hand is.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
So we practice techniques in accordance to where we live now do we? And if you are going down this road why practice things from wrist grabs i mean its highly unlikely to happen especial a double handed grip round the back. I mean i dont tend to wear a sword so i might just as well not bother with that. Yes a gunman might have more distance but then again he might not. Its not unrealistic for a guy to try to rob you at close range with a gun and its not going to hurt to know how to deal with it
tenshinage77 2 years ago
And you think you can move faster than a bullet or a twitchy finger? Okay then. Good luck.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Who know maybe unlkes i try but i do know that by practicee my principles will improve regardless of the weapon. I know that my other techniques will get better from it so its all good.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Yes with regular practice you will get better against the weapons you are familiar with. That's what practice does. It gets you familiar with the situation.
However to suddenly be faced with the very real and present danger of a live blade is something very different from playing points games with a foam rubber tanto. It's really not the same thing. There's no comparison between them.
If you want to criticise it, I suggest you try it out and get some first hand experience. Start out slow.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
As it happens, people do run around here with swords. Well machetes actually. But a sword is close enough.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Yeah I do take where I live into consideration when training. As do many wiser men than us.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
So in your club the gradeing reqirements change depending where a guy lives and what hes likely to encounter in his area lol
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Tanto taisabaki and softdo taisabaki is agreat way to improve speed and timing.
Tenchinage where do you practice.
tomikikai 2 years ago
No. I never ever said I practice purely for grading.
And now you're just being stupid and giving Tomiki Aikido a bad name by acting like a twat.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
besides which it doesnt really matter if its likely or unlikely its still practicing good principles. Impromeing your movemnt posture etc etc. That transfures to other techniques.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Yeah go for it. Play with all the toys you like.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Your the guy crying about "safety". If it doesn't matter give it a go with a live blade.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
No im being sensible thats all. You are more interesting in crap attacks that look flashy to un untrained observer because hes impressed by the shiney blade. Im interesting in a real attack. Whats your real blade worth if the attack is crap. Its not worth anything. It doesnt matter because i dont ponce around with live blades. Real attack foam blade hits me is doesnt matter. It can hit me a milion times doesnt matter. I can have full focus on improving my avoidence rather
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Clearly you have missed the point as to why I posted these videos.
How many times have I said the standard at that club wasn't good enough which is why I left? Are you even paying attention? Maybe the shiny blade is still playing on your mind.
If it's such a trivial matter give it a go. Come back and tell me if it's a different experience from a foam tanto.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
of course you are being tested im not taking that away from you. I meant tested in the sence in a different sence. You talk about uke should never just go dowm so ok by your way of thinking all those guys should be trying to screw you up. If we are playing that game when i strike with the tanto when you grab me im going to counter im going to attemp to throw you. You cant do that all the time. Time and place as i say. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing in the video though.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Even is uke doesn't add in a counter there's still no need for uke to simply fall over. We're not rag dolls. We can still provide resistance.
It is never the job of uke simply to fall down. If uke simply falls down you have no idea what really works and what doesn't. There's no point of comparison. There's no way to tell if you're improving or getting worse.
If uke doesn't make you work for the technique. Uke becomes pointless.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
As i said there is a time and place. Your genral training is the time to give a little resistance and then give each other feed back on if it worked or not. You can make him work for it then. You can make him work for it in Hikitategeiko and in randori for sure. If it works in randori then you know you are fine. But its defined uke does not resist or get tricky in Kakarigeiko . Like i said different levels of practice to work on different areas. Wiser men than us devised this.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Really? defined where? Are you expecting me to play by the rules of Tomiki Aikido?
Other men also defined other martial systems where people break things until they have knuckles the size of golf balls. Should I go do that too?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
If you are taking up that art yes. But this is not that art. Its nothing to do with the style of aikido. In your vido none of those guys are resisting if they were you would have to work for your technique like in a randori sence. If you had 8 guys there that didnt want to be thrown that video would be completely different. Style dosent matter ive never come across one club in any style where uke always makes life difficult. look at clips right back to ueshiba.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Pointing out the flaws in the video is a bit redundant when I've already said the standard was crap and the video is one of a series of videos I posted all concerning the same organisation. Some of which show even crappier Aikido. There are even uke being thrown by a 1st kyu without a finger being laid on them!
Sorry what was your point again? Was it this video isn't realistic? No shit batman. I pretty much said that in the description and the whole way through all the comments posted here.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
No sure if this is aimed at me or Tenchinage. I started Aikido in 1975 under the instruction of Roland Tann. 1979 studied under the instruction of Ken Broome. Haba visited Kens club on a regular basis whilst he was in the UK. Ken introduced me to Dr Lee Ah Loi who was my principle instructor from 1982 until she retired to Australia 2003
tomikikai 2 years ago
What's your take on ukes role in AIkido practice tomikai?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
maybe your teacher wasnt a fan of randori or maybe you didnt stick around long enough i dont know the reasons but there are times for resistance, countering and making life difficult and thats randori be it tanto or toshu. Just not in Kakarigeiko . Kakarigeiko is to put the pressure on you, help sharpen your reflexes etc. Its a tool for learning nothing else.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
I studied with my previous teacher for 10 years. In that time I watch the standard of Aikido being practised at that club plummet as the teacher began to cater for those who need to feel safe before they are willing to train.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Wow, the eight man attack seems like a real great exercise. One question though, doesn't the live blade kinda limit what uke is able to do? Of course, you trust that the person being tested would be able to blend with any kind of attack uke would throw, but the attacks did look kind of toned down. Might just be me, but I was just wondering.
x0AikidoKa0x 2 years ago
Well the video is an extract from a grading. So Uke is limited to what is required for the grading. Like everything else uke has to gauge the attack to his partners ability.
Take away the tanto and replace it with a bokken. A cracked skull isn't on my Christmas list. Some experience with the live tanto is important though. It tends to put things into perspective in away nothing else can achieve.
I've seen a lot of students suddenly become useless just because they see a shiny blade.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
I tend disagree on the live blade issue. As soon as you put a live blade into the game it all becomes fake because uke will not be 100% commited in his attack. Unless hes a complete nut job and you dont really need that in the dojo. If you train with a man day in day out hes your friend you know if he dont get his part right and you stab him its over. If its not a live blade however you will be 100% commited making the attack real which is more important.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
It doesn't show up very well in the video. But the live tanto actually went through my hakama on the first attack. If you listen carefully you'll hear the grading officer asking me if I'm okay. The uke is a guy I trained with for years.
If your uke is worth training with then they'll give good solid attacks every time. It shouldn't matter if your friends or not.
The element of danger in your training is extremely important.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Then you might as well say the same for every techniche then but no as a tori you should look after your uke with weapons or otherwise. To get the best out of aikido your uke should feel safe with you. people that muller there ukes just end up with no one wanting to train with them. You wont become a better akidoka mullering your ukes. Put a live blade ito it and soon you wont have a club if everyones 100% commited because the reality is you wont always get out the way. Ive done enough .......
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Your uke should feel safe? Aikido is a "martial art". Uke should look after him/her self. I accept we have to judge an individuals ability and perform to that level. But if you're constantly compensating for a lack of ability you will go no where. Especially if tori is compensating for uke.
Certainly in a situation like a grading life should be hard and awkward and uncomfortable. The uke select for the job should know what they are doing and be able to keep up the pressure.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Yes uke should feel safe there should be a bond of trust between you and your partner. If uke dosent trust tori he wont feel safe and if he doesnt feel safe he will be tence and the aikido suffers. Not only ukes but toris to. Yes its a martial art but its one that need both off you to help each other to learn it. Thats why in the start we arnt doing battle with each other. I allow you to do the technique i dont resist i dont counter. Later in randori fine but in practice uke should fell safe.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Feeling safe should have nothing to do with it. Trust in martial arts comes from respect of other martial arts practitioners.
If you feel safe then you're comfortable. You should never be comfortable in your training. Your training partners should always be pushing you on.
Of course if you need to feel safe to train then I guess that means you can't attend seminars with strangers. How safe can you be in a room full of strangers. How do people ever get started?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
You should always feel comfortable in your training you are meant to be helping each other not killing each other. It shouldnt matter if its a stranger or not. You should be confident that you are going to come out with your limbs intact because doing the damage is the easy bit its the detail that makes the differece between it working & not working & that can be practiced softly and safely. There is a time & a place for the rough stuff and thats in randori. Thats what competition is there for.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
I never mentioned anything about damaging anybody. Just that "feeling safe" shouldn't be a requirement of training.
Quoting the infirm and elderly and toddlers? That's just grasping at straws.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
When you're comfortable, you begin to make mistakes. These mistakes become bad habits. Once a habit is formed it's a nightmare to break it and change it to something more beneficial.
Students should never feel comfortable while training. They should always feel they are being pushed to perform to their best.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Thats what you have kata for. Kata is where you get the detail right, get out of bad habits or preferably not pick them up in the first place but thats an ideal world i know. And one should feel very comfortable and safe in kata thats for sure. All im saying is there is a time and place for everything but its broken down. You wouldnt start screwing tori up during a kata performace at a gradeing would you? No because its just a demonstration of priciples and you are helping each other.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Fine you go feel safe in your bubble wrap world.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Hey at the end off the day we put our aikido to the test in competition you dont. We test it against skilled men that wont just take the fall ( in the right situation) You dont. We know our aikido works thats what matters.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
I don't wait until the end of the day to put my Aikido to the test. I test it every training session with a uke willing to make me work for the technique.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Comment removed
tenshinage77 2 years ago
as people get old they cant do the things they used to and with the very young dont have joints developed enough for certain techniques and they should feel safe that they arnt going to get mullared and be out of work/school for months after a class. But regardless of any of that which you can disagree with all you like i dont really care you dont train at my club but in Kakarigeiko ukes job is not to be tricky. Any one of those guys could have countered but its not there job.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
tanto randori to know this. If you are 100% commited with a live blade you are in effect trying to kill uke. Unless you are a nut job you wont be doing that with your mates. A percentage of you will be holding back at which point its fake. With a foam competition tanto at least the attack is real. Whats in the hand doesnt really matter. Live blades arnt used in aikido competion for a reason and thats safety. The attacks can then be real and you wont have a dozen dead bodies after a session.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Dude read what I've posted. I've already said there is an allowance for an individuals ability. However even when allowing for each individuals ability uke should be making life difficult and all attacks should be committed.
I know from experience anything less leads to a decline in standards.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
If your making any sort of allowence then you arnt 100% commited simple as that and i stand by the fact no uke is going to be 100% commited no matter how skilled tori is. Practice with live weapons has nothing going for it.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Very true. But I don't think I ever said it had to be "100%". I said the attack must be "committed". Which means the attack must be sufficiently strong to push tori and make them work for the technique. The attack must be strong enough to take tori beyond their comfort zone.
If you're not doing that then you're just going through the motions.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Sorry its either commited or its not . You cant be a little bit pregnant mate. A foam tanto allows for a proper attack thats safe but serves the same perpose. There is a reason live blade are not used in competition aikido.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
I guess none of the attacks you offer your training partners are "100% committed" then since they all need to feel safe. I mean you might trip on your hakama and fall over.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Well id not wear one of those things anyway and i think that anyy teacher that wears one isnt doing the best by his students but thats another argument. Not that there arnt some superb akidoka out there that do where them of course.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Please explain? While the hakama is mostly there for the sake of tradition, it does serve a very important purpose. It makes life difficult. It can be hard to move quickly in a hakama.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Ok ill explane. They cover up vital footwork. Its extemely difficult to see whats going on kind of like a swan under. You see the gracefullness up top but nothing happening below and whats happening below. As my teacher once said to me if i wear a hakama i have to keep lifting it up to show you whats going on undernieth so why bother wearing it at all. Students benifit more from a sensai not wearing it i feel. plus they are a pain in the arse in so many ways. Look nice but thats about for me.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
Well imagine that. There's something about martial arts that requires a bit of effort. When I've had to teach someone the foot work I've never found lifting my hakama to be an inconvenience. More to the point. If the student doesn't understand what's happening with the feet then the student should ask the question.
Frankly that reason simply demonstrates laziness on the teachers part. Lifting your hakama is hardly a hardship.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Its not lazy its just doing the best by your students. If you holding up a poxy hakama then your upper body isnt exactly corret is it. Its just much easier not to bother. If thats lazynes so be it at the end of the day tomiki didnt wear one, uno , didnt, yamada dont, Shishida dont, Nariyama dont , saito dont, uno dont . All lazy teachers? With a hakama you can never see the footwork so if you constantly have to ask its constantly taking time. Time better spent elsewhere.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
We have all the time in the world to study and practice Aikido. What's the rush?
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
who said there was a rush.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
2:35 !! GREAT omote yaku =D
pirosmaker 2 years ago
sweetness... it looks awesome.
another question: whenever i see the tests, for any martial art test too, the other students know the techniques and obviously they roll to prevent injury from the actual technique. but hte question - if they know the same techniques, couldnt they also reverse them or prevent themselves from getting into those mistakes? so then the martial artist being tested would need to be doubly badass? externally, it looks like the attackers play the weak henchmenrole kinda
YinYangTzu 2 years ago
Ah nice observation! In all honesty some of the uke in the video were simply falling down. The falling standards is one of the reasons I stopped training with that group.
In the video uke is playing the role of the attacker an is providing only the "required" attacks. So uke isn't free to do as uke pleases. So strictly speaking it's not true randori. But uke is still free to choose from a range of attacks. So tori still doesn't know exactly what's going to be next.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Yes there is always a window of opputunety for counter but the more skill tori has the smaller your window. There will be times you practice counters and even counters to counters but this just isnt that time. Both people have a job to do and ukes job in this instance isnt to be tricky and counter. If this was randori neither man would want to be throw and it becoimes like a game of chess. until one of you makes makes a mistake.
tenshinage77 2 years ago
amazing randori !
sallom899 2 years ago
Excellent. I've a question for you and the aikidokas how many styles of Aikido this discipline have and what is the difference between them? I'll soon start to learn this martial art but need more info about this topic. Thx in advance
SPHORX 2 years ago
How many styles of Aikido are there or how many styles are used in the video? In the video there is one style being used. It's called Ki Aikido. There are about 5 major styles or groups of within Aikido circles and then countless break away or satellite groups and god knows how many independents.
If you take up Aikido. Take note of the quality of the students and the demeanour and attitude of the teacher. If you get any bad vibes. Walk away.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
This is an excellent display of Randori, I'm very impressed.
FelixNothus 2 years ago
Thanks.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Very impressive!
johnnyjohnson 2 years ago
Thanks.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
lol
dllhell 2 years ago
:O) Always happy to entertain :op
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Now thats, Aikido!! fullstop.
I am Aikikai, I dont care what this style is.
I like it.
You see a lot of top notch aikidoka,
with a lot of dan in youtube,
but not worth a lot.
Sad really.
Desent Aikido training.
5 stars from me.
What style are you guys?
antonis5784 2 years ago
The style is Ki Aikido. But I don't train any longer. The teacher became more interested in building his own little empire and garnishing "respect" than maintaining standards. So I left.
Which is sad really. As Ki Aikido goes it used to be a decent club.
aikiwolfie 2 years ago
Very impressive
nikolaiillingworth 3 years ago
aaahhhh randori or mulitple attackers....hehe....^^
sharex2000 3 years ago
Thanks for watching guys all comments, good and bad are appreciated. :o)
aikiwolfie 3 years ago
very well done
Kuritzu 3 years ago
If you view the Steven Seagal videos, he has several people rush the student all at once. Not an easy thing to defend against. In a street fight, if you take one guy apart, people start hesitating to be the next to hit the pavement. Most aikido techniques in the dojo do not involve realistic, modern-day attacks, but your techniques transfer easily when a real attack does come on the street. I just wish more instructors would just use "real world" senarios in the first place.
giggedyguy 3 years ago
Umm ... Steven Seagal? I really haven't seen much of hsi Aikido beyond the movies. As we all know movie fu is staged. A lot more staged than anything I've posted.
Sometimes I forget these videos are here since I'm no longer practicing. But thanks for watching.
aikiwolfie 3 years ago
oh hey just watched the video... was awesome... i pracrise aikido in scotland and ive not long started, bout month and a half but already loving it haha.
Ehm yeah jsut for the record steven segal is a seventh dan but refused the grade of 8 and higher !!
MarkW1888 3 years ago
i do Kempo, but i got a question: do'S they use weapons to at Kempo???
Jappeke007 3 years ago