g a few) it would cost the tax payers much more. Now that I've said that, I would like to say that I admire your magic, and have been a great fan of yours for around 7 years. You are one of the reasons I got into magic, to rid it of some of the bullshit also. My more recent idols are a mix of comedy and classical magic. Names like Slydini, Dai Vernon, Bill Malone, Michael Vincent, The Amazing Johnathan, Chris Angel ( haha fuck that) and Rhett Bryson. Thank you for your magic (BTW people have st
I was in the boy scouts, and I'm an atheist. Penn, please don't blame the young boys in the scouts for something that a higher power in the organization decides. I understand that it can sometimes be questionable that it is a private organization with government funds, but when I was in the scouts, I built trails in public parks, benches in cities, and even built a small dock for people to fish into a lake. Now if the government employed people to do all of those renovations (and I'm just namin
I'm a non-Christian (but not atheist or homosexual) Eagle Scout and I have to say that you make good points in this video. :/ At my Eagle Board of Review I was asked what I'd change about the BSA if I could and said that I'd want to get rid of the anti-gay/atheist bigotry (I was a devout Christian at the time and everyone in the troop knew it, so there was no need to worry about them thinking I was an atheist). (Part 1)
(Part 2) The review members gave me a puzzled look on their face and it seemed obvious that it really hadn't occured to them. Point is, the discrimination against gays and atheist are two terrible flaws of the organization -- but there are plenty of positive aspects of the organization (If you're in the right troop, some are full of ass holes..) Unfortunately, these flaws still keep me from thinking of getting Eagle Scout as such a high honor. The bigotry really sickens me.
What you probably should have said was "Though we disagree about the merits of the BSA, I will congratulate you for putting hard work into something you put hard work into."
"Exactly, which means when you say 'I don't believe in the god of religions', you are contradicting yourself."
I don't think he is. Most common religions worship a very distinct, defined God. Even though the Gods of most holy books are similar, they are not the only God one could believe in. I believe there could be a God, but also, I think we've got it all wrong. You watch: they'll die and meet (him) and say "thank you for the miracles" and (s)he'll say "the what now? That wasn't me".
So true. Poor litte guys. It's interesting, Penn's change in position over wikipedia blocking scientologists. I wonder if the scouts taking no help or money or land from the fed would actually change his opinion on the matter. Probably not. Private or public, discrimintation is what it is.
Why would an atheist want to be a boyscout? Perhaps there's a church that doesn't allow atheists. That's terrible and all, but why would the atheists want to go to that church anyway?
@fizzingwhizbeee What the hell does being a boyscout have to do with believing in god? Boyscouts get federal money. Churches don't (or at least shouldn't).
@zofspade "What the hell does being a boyscout have to do with believing in god?"
Apparently, more than we think. I'm not saying they shouldn't lose fed money. I'm not saying they should discriminate (I'm agnostic atm so I wouldn't be allowed either), I'm just saying why would anyone want to be a part of that? Let them wallow in their own prejudice.
@zofspade yours is of course the most practical opinion. i agree with you on some level, i was in boy scouts myself as a kid and was just trying to make friends. politics was beyond me at that point in my development, but i recall now as an adult my well intentioned and community minded scout leaders discussing how they thought the blacks in my country were "dole bludgers" and how immigrants should be thrown out, ect.
The autograph thing he said at the end was dickish, but the father really should have respected Penn's position and left it at that. I would have said "I don't support the boy scouts, but I recognize that becoming an Eagle Scout is an achievement nonetheless, so for that, congratulations."
But is it really such a bad thing for an organization to exclude people based on principles they stand for and criteria they adhere to? In principle, anyone is welcome - but they would have to stand for those principles, too.
penn, why in so many of your videos do you make the rock on sign with your hand? is it just coinsidence? or do you like this hand gesture? i've seen people accusing you of people a satanist etc because of this, i think that is far out, but regardless you do seem to do it consistantly in many of your videos.... please respond.
As an Eagle, I disagree with the high council's anti-gay anti-atheist policy (as hey, were it a real religious organization, you should welcome those as well) Especially Atheists if you want a captive audience to proselytize to! (No, honestly, mainly grace on camping trips, but that's the same thing, right?) Because of the Mormon influence on the scouts (they're the largest contributor) Those rules will stay in effect. They (Mormons) need to be called out.
You also have to think of the good that the boy scouts do. they donate a lot to charity. Plus, why not write a congradulation letter. it takes years of work to become an eagle scout. you dont have to punish him for what the organizations rules are.
I am an Eagle Scout and I am not an atheist, but I understand where you are coming from. I like the idea of the Boy Scouts, but I realize that there are stupid people who have done damage to the image of Boy Scouts. If you asked the boys in Boy Scouts I am sure they would say they don't care who is in their troop, they just want a big troop, but unfortunately it isn't the boys that speak for the scouts.
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
i agree my daughter plays junior varsity soft ball at her high school and after most games both teams and coaches form a circle onthe field and have a little christian prayer it bothers me and i mentioned it to my wife who has a faith in god and she said well the kids don't have to participate but my thing is most of the girls are around 14 yrs. old and if one or two of them walked away i think it would cause a lot of ridicule i just don't think it has a place out there wife says trivial
Good for you for sticking to your guns and for what you believe in. It is situations such as these that prove to be a real test of character. Many would fold under personal conflict and to appease personal relations.
The BSA is a bigoted organization, plain and simple. If a country club near me banned people who are Jewish, I would say the same thing about it. I cannot support the BSA on any level because of this. The people who continue to participate in this organization do nothing but perpetuate hatred and intolerance towards homosexuals and atheists. When my son wanted to join cub scouts, I told him no and I told him why. When cub scouts or boy scouts want to sell me something I say no thank you.
We didn't end up doing anything organized, it just wasn't possible to find a secular organization where we live( rural Oklahoma). So, we did things with a couple of his friends' families, some who are religious and some who aren't. We had a "cheesy movie night", we helped out some of the older ladies in the neighborhood, rescued a litter of puppies once, and we even did babysitting. We averaged doing something small about once a week and something more significant about once a month.
Prayer is still invoked here before football games even at public schools! My son and I are completely outnumbered. A friend of mine said this to me the day before yesterday regarding El Nino, "I don't really buy into all of that stuff." Stunned doesn't begin to explain my reaction. What? You don't buy into ocean currents and THE FREAKING TRADE WINDS? Ugh. Other than that, it's a real nice place to live. :)
@pennsays I don't get atheism. why would the universe evolve a creature to be conscious of its own random meaninglessness?
religion and beliefs in gods clearly exist, and there is no way for it to have come into being super naturally. Atheism only offers an opinion has to why the observed shouldn't exist. Nothing scientific about that... truly.
what meaning does religion give you that it doesn't give an atheist? I would think that you will come to find that YOU find and create the meaning in religion the same as anyone finds meaning in anything.
@cant1be1original kinda makes the argument a mute one then? Considering that atheism is some what a parasitic philosophy, totally reliant on theism to exist. I wonder the benefit of non belief not being a wast of ones time.
Well, you didn't respond to my comment at all. Your just making a statement, but nonetheless I'll address your statement. What your saying is actually somewhat true. Atheism wouldn't exist outside of theism, because it's merely the rejection of Theism. Third sentence clarified would say "Atheism has no benefit." That would be true IF religion didn't exist, but it does. Not God, but Religion. Atheism Benefits as much as not believing in big foot. It makes you one of the sane people.
@romney27 I'm sure this is one of the many replies you get to this, but...
We are, by far, not the pinnacle of evolution. We may think we are big shit, but by the time the sun expands and engulfs earth, the beings living on it will be as far from us as we are from bacteria.
There doesn't have to be a meaning to everything, and making up your own meaning and superimposing it onto the ENTIRE UNIVERSE isn't much better.
@romney27 yea, religion is a cultural phenomonon. when a species evolves to a point where it can predict the future (ie. the seasons and migrations of animals) that species faces the fact that its going to die. so to stop the cold hard fact that we die like animals (and the fact that we have no idea whats going on) we make up myths that help us deal with death and makes up myths to help us figure out why tsunamis hit, or why famines and diseases hit. then along comes science to give us a better
@SelfAware1 sounds mostly like conjecture on your part. You seem to forget that Einstein already pioneered the "thought experiment", and the fact that one can "experience" ones own consciousness. "I can imagine that jumping off a bridge is bad, as well what it would feel like to travel on a train going the speed of light." not to mention that you lack a true understanding of the concept of "myths". Myths exist as symbols of underlying virtues, not super superstitions.
@romney27 i dont lack an understanding of myths. i assume your a christian, so do you think the hinduism is real or a myth. its either one or the other, they both cant be true. "myths exist as symbols of underlying virtues'?? what does that ever mean, it is incoherent nonsense. the greek myths were not symbols of virtue. and i dont follow any of your first part of ur argument.
@romney27 picture of reality. then the silly myths of our ancestors slowly stop making any sense and rational people begin to reject them. we are in the first stage of evolving past religion right now and it started with the enlightenment! theres your answer.
@SelfAware1 don't knock your ancestors. You literally "stand on their shoulders". "you" are nothing more than the "tip" of the coral. You don't exist from nothing, you're only here because of their resiliency. I don't get how you can call yourself a "humanist" when beliefs in gods goes so far back as to clearly exist as part of the human condition. Religion is an adaptation no different than science, mathematics, or language. Who are you to say that anything is wrong? by what authority?
"God" is just a word, it's a concept of the source of the expanding universe. Doesn't seem reasonable to assume that the universe is sourceless. So what ever way science wants to call it, From the "singularity" of the big bang theory, to the imagination of the mind. Thoughts alone can change ones physiology, that is a scientific fact. Believing in gods can change ones demeanor in a positive way if ones choose so. Atheist should just get over themselves, your "opinions" are not science.
@romney27 i dont hate my ancestors they just had less knowledge then we do and they had smaller frontal lobes, they just werent us. i would rather creatively deal with the present then APE THE WAYS OF MY ANCESTORS. which is what religion does. religion is a lot different then science, religion is just made up sillyness and science is verifiable and founded on evidence and pressure from collegues and peers who want to prove you wrong. HUGE FUCKIN DIFFERENCE.
@romney27 who am i to say anything is wrong? wow i smell the cultural reletivist seething thru your commentary. by your standards who can say murder is wrong? who can say genital mutilation in africa is wrong? who can say suicide bombers killing innocent people is wrong? because it fucking is, if those things were okay we would not survive as a species.... come on now, that is silly as fuck and you know it. i am a humanists not concerned with any afterlife but concerned about people in this one
@romney27 I'm an atheist and I believe in God. I don't think God's a deity and I think infinite eons of evolution make it. God's like the child of Mother Nature and Father Time, beauty and wisdom. As mother nature goes forward making beautiful things, time wisely removes the failed mutations and the product of these two things combined makes all life, and that's a miracle. No bearded judging guy in the sky, just, the universe.
@zofspade If you can't understand what I'm saying then you must just be plain stupid or something. Maybe they never taught you the word "enlightened". If you were to read the rest of that comment you'd understand what I mean. Atheists do not believe in any deities or superstitions, and I don't either, but I believe in God which is what existence truly is. Maybe the word "God" confused your unenlightened mind and my following explanation failed to help you. The word "God" kinda sucks that way.
"I believe in God which is what existence truly is."
That's nonsense. You are speaking nonsense. You are a condescending douchebag who throws around words without any sense of their definitions. You'd make a misanthrope out of Mother Teresa.
@zofspade Just because you can't understand simple concepts does not mean I'm speaking nonsense. It means you confuse shit with other shit. I call it God because that's just the word most fitting to what I'm trying to say. God is a concept. I don't follow any particular God, I don't believe in any deity, just because one confuses the God I'm talking of with the God of religions and myths and nonsense, doesn't make me full of nonsense, it just means there's a failure of communication. *Sigh*
@stfwho No it isn't the most fitting word. God is a deity. A deity is a god. No definition of god fits what you are talking about, which means you are using the word wrong. When you use words wrong, you are talking nonsense. Is that hard to understand? Or am I talking down to you right now?
If it's a failure of communication, that falls on you and only you. There are definitions to the words you use. You just don't know them. Buy a dictionary or a thesaurus or any book and get "enlightened".
@zofspade By the way the definition I use is the same used by dozens of religions and I'd recommend you do a little research before saying something that'll just be wrong.
@zofspade btw I don't mean to sound condescending, its just when someone doesn't understand something as simple as what I'm trying to say here, then I of course must assume they aren't "turned on" to it. Maybe I use too many fancy words, but that's just the way I talk.
@zofspade Dude... stop trolling me, seriously. Just stop. Its annoying, I've got more important shit to do and my inbox doesn't need to be full of alerts for no reason. Go be angry and hateful to somebody else. Bye.
Getting your eagle scout is hard work. Congatulate the individual for goal setting and "follow through" and continue to educate the boy scouts...and everyone else.. about tolerance of homosexuality and atheism. maybe in the future with enough enlightened people the biggotry will stop but this is all beyond the scope of the young kid who worked hard and achieved something in the vein of trying to better himself.
I agree, and I don't want those children to have to lie. thats why I phrased my comment the way I did. It is still larger than the one kid in question and short-changing him to further ones one agenda is unacceptable...to me.
I don't think it's black and white as to who is right and wrong here. Yeah, sometimes you should just go along with things so as not to heart people you care about, but sometimes you need to stand up and fight for what you believe in.
I think that's a hallmark of atheism/secularism, not knowing what's 100% right or wrong. But the fact that you give your actions consideration in hindsight says you're not an asshole, to me.
he is the asshole for getting so worked up over you simply sharing your views. other commenters suggested just saying no, but if he would not have been angered by that, adding your opinion should not have made a difference ... i actually was a boyscout once ... i also used to be supposedly christian ... i stress the past tense on those ....
I think I would have written the congratulations and said, "Although I think the separatist views of the scouts are dishonorable, I congratulate you on your accomplishments and hope that you will be a voice for change within the scouting community.
My brother and I are both eagle scoutsand we don't believe in god. I will be honest I've read about some negative things with scouting such as,back in the day scouts troops denied African Americans in california and this lead to those kids starting gangs in California.
When in scouting I respected the religious based aspecs but I didnt let that affect me I took the leadership skills. I respecet others peoples beliefs like I would like them to respect mine.
Why couldn't you have just said "no?" Getting Eagle Scout is really difficult from what I understand. While I agree that BSA is both homophobic and statedly religious (there was an entire Supreme Court case), many of the boys/men involved with the organization just want to go camping and hang out. I DO think that they should standardize their rules.
No way. You were NOT being an asshole for telling the guy what you told him. You're an asshole for being so concerned and worked up over it. Chill out! My cousin invited me to his son's first "holy communion" and I just said no. I'm busy. You can't force people to think and be rational.
John 1:5-7 Lolcat Translation Baby Jebus sais Ceiling Cat is made of lyte and win, he has 0 failz.6 If you sez u be down wit Ceiling Cat but has failz, u dont has no wins for realz and ar failzing.7 But if u be down wit Ceiling Cat and haz win, you can has baff wit Baby Jeezuz and cleaneded all ur failz n eevlz.
i love when you tell someone your atheist they start spitting out bible quotes. im so tired of these christian ppl craming there bs down my throat. i wish they would all go away (atleast the pretentious obnoxious 0nes)
Penn, I love you man....but when it comes to children who are ignorant to issues and still live in the bliss that is the beauty of childhood.....should be exempt from personal views. Just my opinion. The scouts do good things, you should of hooked his soon up, not him.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
John 16:8
When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: So this is why I pray because the Holy Spirit can convict this man and lead him to repentance. God can lead him to the cross.
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Ephesians 3:20-21 (King James Version) 20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
If god is infallible, then your prayer cannot change his plan, and so it is useless to pray for him. Unless it makes you feel better, but then you aren't really doing it for him, are you?
hey penn would you be mad at your son if he grew up not an atheist? i mean i have a feeling you wont be cuz you have a great out look on human choices a great respect for what people have to say or a way they choose there paths that they take. but ya just wondering
While I think it's great to support kids who work hard to acheive something difficult, it's more important to stand up for what's right and send the message that people need to not be so politically correct that they don't point out the bullshit in society. And the Boy Scouts are definitely on the BS list! Penn was right. Principles mean more than trying to be nice.
Not that my opinion really matters, but you weren't the dick at all, Penn. He made a request and you told him you weren't going to and specifically cited why; so he wouldn't think you were snubbing him or it was anything personal. You were actually being very polite and thoughtful.
Personally, I'm sick of the quasi-pedophilia in this country. Why is it because it's a kid we have to suck up to him?
I was an Eagle scout and I sent my badge back to the BSA with a note saying that until they rescinded their decision not to allow atheists and gays in the BSA, I'd have nothing to do with them.
You were right to tell this guy what you did. He was the one being a dick for not respecting your right not to be involved with what has become one of the most bigoted, narrow-minded organizations in the US.
Well It does seem pretty mean spirited but it's your autograph and really this guy is the dick for trying to push the issue instead of just dropping it.
An Eagle scout has to do a service project and learn/demonstrate a wide variety of skills. In your shoes, I would have written "congratulations on getting eagle" and scrawled my signature on it, but that's me.
I saw your BS on the BSA and thought it was great. I agree that BSA gets more than even-handed treatment from the government, and I agree that that's wrong. This doesn't lessen the young man's accomplishments. Eagle is hard.
My father worked For the BSA for over 10 years. He was fired, and screwed over financially. Why?...He was trying to save a person's job. Trying to pass a petition to keep this woman at her post because there was no legitimate reason for her release, he was fired. So not only are they homophobic, discriminating bastards...They are also cold, heartless mother fuckers who don't care how much you've done for them...As long as you keep your mouth shut
I am an Eagle scout, as well as a huge fan of Penn.
Maybe my experience was a bit different (I am from the Left Coast) but in my Boy Scout troop, over half of the families were either non-religious or out-and-out atheist. There were atheist kids, and when the scout master tried to get us all to read the bible, almost everyone refused. None of use got kicked out.
I was in Cub Scouts, and it was mostly just fun craft-y things for kids to do. None of the practices were religious in any way. Maybe the religious stuff ramps up as you increase in rank.
You were kind of being a dick, but at the same time I understand your reasoning. You were given a loaded request pretty much, so it could have gone either way. Maybe you could have sent him an email saying "congratulations on working hard to achieve goals you've striven for." Something of that sort would probably make him feel good about his successes and you wouldn't be endorsing the boy scouts, but rather his individual achievements. We'll just call it a loophole.
Nope, I don't think you were being a dick. I think that eagle scouts need to be brought down a few pegs. Nothing I hate more than someone saying they were an eagle scout. It's like those kids that went to space camp. Or the ones who got to go on school field trips to Europe or cancun for 3-5 grand. Or even those that went to ivy league colleges while you pounded sand in Iraq doing foot patrols. You just want to punch them in the gut for having parents with money. Gotta Love Lower Class
I am an atheist and was in the BSA as a boy. I did not reach Eagle because I realized I was being force fed superstition and that I no longer wanted to be part of an organization that required its members to practise a religon. But I have enrolled my young son. I want him to learn and experience the good parts of that time of my childhood and once he is of an age to know and speak his mind if he no longer wants to remain in the boyscouts he will have my full support.
NO. No you are not the asshole in this situation Penn.
He was asking you for a favor. And when you politely declined his specific request because of closely held personal beliefs while offering a very generous compromise, he became argumentative and even chastised you for sticking to what you believe in.
If it was you asking him for the favor, then it might be different. But as it stands, I think you did the right thing.
i didnt know that. so, even you just happen to be atheist, youre not trying to change anything, you just want to have fun and learn to start a campfire and help a old lady across a street, theyre going to say "no, go away" and make the kid cry? thats really sad.
By setting up a situation in which honest people must lie, the Boy Scouts are actually damaging the society they're claiming to benefit. This kind of thing is the root of totalitarianism--instilling shame in people for their thought-crime transgressions. Perhaps there is silver lining in that within that context intelligent freethinkers can learn how to subvert such numbskull organizations.
The Boy Scouts have been ripe with hypocrisy and morally questionable behavior for some time. I was a Boy Scout some time ago (mid to late 90's) and reached the Life rank. What made me stop there was that 3 other scouts were trying for Eagle; the Scoutmaster's Son, the Assistant Scoutmaster's Son, and another Boy. This third boy would have to fight for his Eagle because he had a drug charge on his criminal record from prior to joining Boy Scouts.
He was the only one to do all the work for his project, and didn't receive help from the SM or ASM despite helping their sons projects. Their sons received help from DeWalt where the SM worked as well as state Engineers. Eagle Projects are supposed to be Scout Driven, not major companies. My father was offered a job by the ASM (a manager for the State Department) if he [b]gave[/b] the SMs son the last Merit Badges he needed. He refused and was told I would never get Eagle. I quit.
How exactly, as some have posted, is the young man's membership in an organization that excludes and, by proxy, demonizes other human beings, some how morally neutral?
Israel exists because Zionists claim their INVISIBLE RACIST CLOUD FATHER promised it to them thousands of years ago. This fairy tale justifies the Palestinian apartheid/genocide, and US taxpayers giving hundreds of billions to pay for it.
How can Penn Jillette, self-described "libertarian" and "militant atheist," support the most egregious example of unjustified government expense and religion-based government policy?
It's a shame really. The organization has so much potential but is weighed down by zealot intolerance.
I'm an atheist eagle scout and it truly shames me to see the way the leadership is in BSA. At a local level troops can very radically, but when you get higher up, thats when you start to get to the intolerant zealots.
IMO, you should of just congratulated the kid and honored his commitment and responsablilty in his achievement, regardless of the shitty higher-ups. The kid is whats important
This is hard because we're talking about a kid who believes he has achieved something really special, and on a certain level he has. Unfortunately, the group with which he's achieved it is bigoted.
They take tax money and exclude gays and atheists unless they lie, or at least keep quiet about their orientation or atheism.
If everything else was the same but it was the KKK Scouts would we be having this conversation?
I'm sorry about the boy, but it's really his parents' fault.
Douche move, Penn. Altho I know WHY you feel that way. seems like a close topic to you. also send me an autograph, but instead of just signing your name, draw a dick. thx <3
Also, when I was a scout, Clinton was president and I believe that after the No Gays thing, President Clinton restricted the scouts federal parks privileges. But, knowing Bush, that was probably reversed.
oh, I also remember that when the scouts decided to keep gays out, the scouting community became very divided on the issue, it was a big split. that summer at our summer camp there was a heated debate around every corner.
As an Eagle Scout I have to agree with the author you're Talking about. My troop took the view about the point in the scout law (there are 12 points) "a scout is reverent" as a scout should respect the religion of others. Some troops are 100% moron, some 100% baptist, etc. most are mixed w/ secularists, christians, jews, etc. The boy scouts are a very difficult thing to understand if you weren't a part of it, just like what was said in this video about Jazz.
.....My point was that our troop said, as a scout you should be respectful, but you don't have to be a participating or radical religious person, many of my fellow scouts from the troop were openly agnostic and many of the other scouts and troops were just fine with that. I personally am a deist. so anyways, as I said...complicated. However I would be more than happy to discuss that further, and being a fan of Jazz wouldn't have a problem discussing that either.
Not that being a gay Christian puts me in any particularly good position to say that "you're right" or something similar, but it's not like you were denying the achievement of the kid, just you were criticizing the organization, and really you have every right do that.
I would have just asked to talk to his son...kids generally are open minded and not stupid. I'm sure he would have understood even if he was really young.
It is really interesting when you look at the insiders view on this issue. From my experience most of the animosity occurs in the higher ups of the BSA. However the lowers are forced to follow their ways or loose their jobs. Their is a lot of animosity within the BSA towards Nationals because of these issues.
I worked at a Boy Scout camp for several years and I worked with Gays and atheists, and all sorts of people who shouldn't be in Boy Scouts. Two of my gay friends were outed and got kicked out. The boy scouts are a great organization but they limit themselves with their archaic backwards ways. They are very hateful when they kick people out. It is really sad that they cling the way they do when similar organizations like the Girl Scouts have become all inclusive. I understand your view.
Too late for what? The apocalypse? The guy wasn't alive in my lifetime, he didn't save me from anything and I don't have lords from thousands of years ago or any lord for that matter.
What you should have done is written a congratulatory note to the whole Eagle Scout pack, signed by "Penn (atheist)" and let the pack leader decide whether it gets shown to the kids or not. Then if they decide not to pass it on, they're the "bad guy", and you've given the scouts a chance to contradict the established rules of their own group. In other words, rest the deliver-ability of the autograph on the very weakness of the group you object to, and see what happens.
what part of the crack pipe is this guy licking???? i like his magic but leave the personal stuff at the door he is standing in front of. the scouts are a time honored tradition that was made before his time and long after he is worm food! they will be there. so what if they have rules if the world had no rules look at what state we would be in.
penn, you are a big A-hole. the kid probably doesn't even know who you are. the father was just trying to be nice and you showed how big an ASS you are.
I wish more people would take a stand in these types of situations. It's easy to get upset about stuff like this because we (atheists) have to hear this crap all the time. I hate when anyone says "you have to pick your battles..." That's bullshit! Life itself is a battle, and the smart people have to fight off the stupid people at every turn. It gets old. Anyway, I'm just ranting now. Ha...
Good for you Penn, though we feel hopelessly surrounded we must keep our chin up and fight the good fight! Having a stance against bigots does not make you an ass. That would be a title more befitting the right wing.
First time I've disagreed with one of your videos..... I think I'll agree with the author at least about choosing your battles. Despite what you say in the Bullshit videos, the Boy Scouts of America do a lot of charity work and community service (and I know you'd agree that charities are preferable to the government spending our money to do that)
Apparently this guy didn't watch much BS because had he I would hope he would have better sense than to ask you to send a congratulatory letter for his son. If he could not respect your views on a discriminatory organization then he wasn't much of a friend in the first place. I think it's no big loss for you Penn.
you know theres a thing called don't ask don't tell if your gay ok just don't go around telling everyone and its fine which i dought you would do anyway and if your an atheist they really don't care just don't go around announcing it to everyone and its fine you dont have to lie about who you are frankly no one cares if your gay or atheist just dont be telling important people.
The problem is announcing it to the world, it's the exclusion. One can freely admit to being straight or gay, but not allowing someone into an organization because they are gay or straight is wrong. What's even worse is they get tax payer money, so this isn't a private organization anymore; it's a public organization which excludes anyone who is gay, or does not believe in God.
thats true i didnt think about that it is wrong for them to say that and i dont think its fair but. soething that bugs me is that penn and most of the people that agree with them hate everyone in boy scouts even that hard working boys that happen to fit the description and not just the people that dont think thats gays and atheists should be boyscouts
It depends on the troop. My troop here in Columbus Ohio allows my son (I am an athiest and former scout) as well as a boy with a lesbian mother to participate and we have never been made unwelcomed by anyone in the troop. I also agree scouts should not put their hands out for government money nor should any other group.
Penn never discusses Israel's Palestinian apartheid/genocide, even though it is the most egregious example of what libertarians & atheists are against: unjustified government spending & government policy based in religious belief.
Why?
Penn Jillette is a self-described "cultural Jew." The TV show that bears his name, "Penn & Teller: Bullshit" is actually owned by über-Zionist Sumner Redstone. This slickly-produced fake "personal video diary" is owned by Sony, run by Zionist Howard Stringer.
The Boy Scouts bar gays & atheists. They are supported in part with government resources. It is right to condemn the Boy Scouts & government support of them.
Israel restricts the movement of Palestinians and confines them to ghettos, walled off from utility grids and highways, & every so often bombs the hell out of th
Can't really see you being the dick in this circumstance. I'd attack athiest groups that don't allow theists as well though
kai388 2 weeks ago
yah you're were the dick but you stand up for your belief. I bite my tongue a lot to keep the peace.
submetropolis 5 months ago
Maybe a bit of a dick, but screw it. Boy Scouts are shitty.
Fwibos 6 months ago
you aredefinately not a dick. love the bullshit show. very eye opening.
wcresponder 6 months ago
BTW people have started religions on less than what you have done.
TheAplombMan 6 months ago
g a few) it would cost the tax payers much more. Now that I've said that, I would like to say that I admire your magic, and have been a great fan of yours for around 7 years. You are one of the reasons I got into magic, to rid it of some of the bullshit also. My more recent idols are a mix of comedy and classical magic. Names like Slydini, Dai Vernon, Bill Malone, Michael Vincent, The Amazing Johnathan, Chris Angel ( haha fuck that) and Rhett Bryson. Thank you for your magic (BTW people have st
TheAplombMan 6 months ago
I was in the boy scouts, and I'm an atheist. Penn, please don't blame the young boys in the scouts for something that a higher power in the organization decides. I understand that it can sometimes be questionable that it is a private organization with government funds, but when I was in the scouts, I built trails in public parks, benches in cities, and even built a small dock for people to fish into a lake. Now if the government employed people to do all of those renovations (and I'm just namin
TheAplombMan 6 months ago
I fuckin' love Penn. He rocks.
DarkHorse0863 7 months ago
I'm a non-Christian (but not atheist or homosexual) Eagle Scout and I have to say that you make good points in this video. :/ At my Eagle Board of Review I was asked what I'd change about the BSA if I could and said that I'd want to get rid of the anti-gay/atheist bigotry (I was a devout Christian at the time and everyone in the troop knew it, so there was no need to worry about them thinking I was an atheist). (Part 1)
ReasonIsADivineGift 8 months ago
(Part 2) The review members gave me a puzzled look on their face and it seemed obvious that it really hadn't occured to them. Point is, the discrimination against gays and atheist are two terrible flaws of the organization -- but there are plenty of positive aspects of the organization (If you're in the right troop, some are full of ass holes..) Unfortunately, these flaws still keep me from thinking of getting Eagle Scout as such a high honor. The bigotry really sickens me.
ReasonIsADivineGift 8 months ago
I know a homosexual Eagle Scout.
What you probably should have said was "Though we disagree about the merits of the BSA, I will congratulate you for putting hard work into something you put hard work into."
digger316 9 months ago
I know a homosexual Eagle Scout.
digger316 9 months ago
"Exactly, which means when you say 'I don't believe in the god of religions', you are contradicting yourself."
I don't think he is. Most common religions worship a very distinct, defined God. Even though the Gods of most holy books are similar, they are not the only God one could believe in. I believe there could be a God, but also, I think we've got it all wrong. You watch: they'll die and meet (him) and say "thank you for the miracles" and (s)he'll say "the what now? That wasn't me".
fizzingwhizbeee 1 year ago
So true. Poor litte guys. It's interesting, Penn's change in position over wikipedia blocking scientologists. I wonder if the scouts taking no help or money or land from the fed would actually change his opinion on the matter. Probably not. Private or public, discrimintation is what it is.
fizzingwhizbeee 1 year ago
Why would an atheist want to be a boyscout? Perhaps there's a church that doesn't allow atheists. That's terrible and all, but why would the atheists want to go to that church anyway?
fizzingwhizbeee 1 year ago
@fizzingwhizbeee What the hell does being a boyscout have to do with believing in god? Boyscouts get federal money. Churches don't (or at least shouldn't).
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade "What the hell does being a boyscout have to do with believing in god?"
Apparently, more than we think. I'm not saying they shouldn't lose fed money. I'm not saying they should discriminate (I'm agnostic atm so I wouldn't be allowed either), I'm just saying why would anyone want to be a part of that? Let them wallow in their own prejudice.
fizzingwhizbeee 1 year ago
@fizzingwhizbeee The problem is none of that matters to a little boy trying to fit in.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade yours is of course the most practical opinion. i agree with you on some level, i was in boy scouts myself as a kid and was just trying to make friends. politics was beyond me at that point in my development, but i recall now as an adult my well intentioned and community minded scout leaders discussing how they thought the blacks in my country were "dole bludgers" and how immigrants should be thrown out, ect.
7kurisu 7 months ago
The autograph thing he said at the end was dickish, but the father really should have respected Penn's position and left it at that. I would have said "I don't support the boy scouts, but I recognize that becoming an Eagle Scout is an achievement nonetheless, so for that, congratulations."
LanceDirk 1 year ago
But is it really such a bad thing for an organization to exclude people based on principles they stand for and criteria they adhere to? In principle, anyone is welcome - but they would have to stand for those principles, too.
BalladoftheWindfish 1 year ago
@BalladoftheWindfish Not if you receive federal aid. And yes, it would be bad to support an organization you don't believe in.
zofspade 1 year ago
Jews wouldn't go to a B-B-Q. They don't eat pork.
panterguy 1 year ago
penn, why in so many of your videos do you make the rock on sign with your hand? is it just coinsidence? or do you like this hand gesture? i've seen people accusing you of people a satanist etc because of this, i think that is far out, but regardless you do seem to do it consistantly in many of your videos.... please respond.
blackpanther77777 1 year ago
39 people are jealous of Penn's hair.
notabook 1 year ago
As an Eagle, I disagree with the high council's anti-gay anti-atheist policy (as hey, were it a real religious organization, you should welcome those as well) Especially Atheists if you want a captive audience to proselytize to! (No, honestly, mainly grace on camping trips, but that's the same thing, right?) Because of the Mormon influence on the scouts (they're the largest contributor) Those rules will stay in effect. They (Mormons) need to be called out.
Rensune 1 year ago
Most boy scouts are like 15 years old.
They're kinda young for the whole gay sex in public restrooms thing.
charlesvan13 1 year ago
You also have to think of the good that the boy scouts do. they donate a lot to charity. Plus, why not write a congradulation letter. it takes years of work to become an eagle scout. you dont have to punish him for what the organizations rules are.
supernoob6 1 year ago
I am an Eagle Scout and I am not an atheist, but I understand where you are coming from. I like the idea of the Boy Scouts, but I realize that there are stupid people who have done damage to the image of Boy Scouts. If you asked the boys in Boy Scouts I am sure they would say they don't care who is in their troop, they just want a big troop, but unfortunately it isn't the boys that speak for the scouts.
ondfritz2 1 year ago
"fuck you mother fuckers" best quote ever :)
unbindingfloyd 1 year ago
fuck the boy scouts!!! haha gays and atheists unite hahha
SelfAware1 1 year ago
The BSoA should not receive one dime of tax payer money until they open up their membership to all faiths and any other groups.
If they don't want to do that fine but give back the money.
slackerdc 1 year ago
time to find out the truth
MrTrilidge 1 year ago
Christianity isn't a religion it is a relationship with Jesus
Cameron11111111111 1 year ago
thanks man, tired of getting attacked by agnostics, skeptics, and ppl who are less than real atheists.
NotTooObvious 1 year ago
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
pennsays 1 year ago
i agree my daughter plays junior varsity soft ball at her high school and after most games both teams and coaches form a circle onthe field and have a little christian prayer it bothers me and i mentioned it to my wife who has a faith in god and she said well the kids don't have to participate but my thing is most of the girls are around 14 yrs. old and if one or two of them walked away i think it would cause a lot of ridicule i just don't think it has a place out there wife says trivial
dragonflychainsaw 1 year ago
you know what a futurist is. according to the futurists in the 1900s there is a flying car in my driveway right now.
rabidchevy 1 year ago
Kids can work hard to do very, very bad things (Columbine, for one). Not all hard work deserves congratulations.
JoeDeceiver 1 year ago
Good for you for sticking to your guns and for what you believe in. It is situations such as these that prove to be a real test of character. Many would fold under personal conflict and to appease personal relations.
FacelessFiend 2 years ago
The BSA is a bigoted organization, plain and simple. If a country club near me banned people who are Jewish, I would say the same thing about it. I cannot support the BSA on any level because of this. The people who continue to participate in this organization do nothing but perpetuate hatred and intolerance towards homosexuals and atheists. When my son wanted to join cub scouts, I told him no and I told him why. When cub scouts or boy scouts want to sell me something I say no thank you.
srb123ou 2 years ago
@srb123ou What organizations does your son participate in instead? Just to help others out with some ideas.
pennsays 2 years ago
We didn't end up doing anything organized, it just wasn't possible to find a secular organization where we live( rural Oklahoma). So, we did things with a couple of his friends' families, some who are religious and some who aren't. We had a "cheesy movie night", we helped out some of the older ladies in the neighborhood, rescued a litter of puppies once, and we even did babysitting. We averaged doing something small about once a week and something more significant about once a month.
srb123ou 2 years ago
@srb123ou Sounds good. Too bad there aren't more secular groups available to you.
pennsays 1 year ago
Prayer is still invoked here before football games even at public schools! My son and I are completely outnumbered. A friend of mine said this to me the day before yesterday regarding El Nino, "I don't really buy into all of that stuff." Stunned doesn't begin to explain my reaction. What? You don't buy into ocean currents and THE FREAKING TRADE WINDS? Ugh. Other than that, it's a real nice place to live. :)
srb123ou 1 year ago
@srb123ou Wow! That is concerning. Well, at least there's no smog (or less).
pennsays 1 year ago
@pennsays I don't get atheism. why would the universe evolve a creature to be conscious of its own random meaninglessness?
religion and beliefs in gods clearly exist, and there is no way for it to have come into being super naturally. Atheism only offers an opinion has to why the observed shouldn't exist. Nothing scientific about that... truly.
romney27 1 year ago
@romney27 Keep watching. Penn speaks to some of these questions in other videos. :-)
pennsays 1 year ago
@romney27
?
what meaning does religion give you that it doesn't give an atheist? I would think that you will come to find that YOU find and create the meaning in religion the same as anyone finds meaning in anything.
cant1be1original 1 year ago
@cant1be1original kinda makes the argument a mute one then? Considering that atheism is some what a parasitic philosophy, totally reliant on theism to exist. I wonder the benefit of non belief not being a wast of ones time.
romney27 1 year ago
@romney27
Well, you didn't respond to my comment at all. Your just making a statement, but nonetheless I'll address your statement. What your saying is actually somewhat true. Atheism wouldn't exist outside of theism, because it's merely the rejection of Theism. Third sentence clarified would say "Atheism has no benefit." That would be true IF religion didn't exist, but it does. Not God, but Religion. Atheism Benefits as much as not believing in big foot. It makes you one of the sane people.
cant1be1original 1 year ago
So what you are saying is that you embrace god in a hope to bring meaning to your existence.
Atheists do not need such justifications.
thadrine 1 year ago
@romney27 I'm sure this is one of the many replies you get to this, but...
We are, by far, not the pinnacle of evolution. We may think we are big shit, but by the time the sun expands and engulfs earth, the beings living on it will be as far from us as we are from bacteria.
There doesn't have to be a meaning to everything, and making up your own meaning and superimposing it onto the ENTIRE UNIVERSE isn't much better.
TheCritRocket 1 year ago
@romney27 yea, religion is a cultural phenomonon. when a species evolves to a point where it can predict the future (ie. the seasons and migrations of animals) that species faces the fact that its going to die. so to stop the cold hard fact that we die like animals (and the fact that we have no idea whats going on) we make up myths that help us deal with death and makes up myths to help us figure out why tsunamis hit, or why famines and diseases hit. then along comes science to give us a better
SelfAware1 1 year ago
@SelfAware1 sounds mostly like conjecture on your part. You seem to forget that Einstein already pioneered the "thought experiment", and the fact that one can "experience" ones own consciousness. "I can imagine that jumping off a bridge is bad, as well what it would feel like to travel on a train going the speed of light." not to mention that you lack a true understanding of the concept of "myths". Myths exist as symbols of underlying virtues, not super superstitions.
romney27 1 year ago
@romney27 i dont lack an understanding of myths. i assume your a christian, so do you think the hinduism is real or a myth. its either one or the other, they both cant be true. "myths exist as symbols of underlying virtues'?? what does that ever mean, it is incoherent nonsense. the greek myths were not symbols of virtue. and i dont follow any of your first part of ur argument.
SelfAware1 1 year ago
@romney27 picture of reality. then the silly myths of our ancestors slowly stop making any sense and rational people begin to reject them. we are in the first stage of evolving past religion right now and it started with the enlightenment! theres your answer.
SelfAware1 1 year ago
@SelfAware1 don't knock your ancestors. You literally "stand on their shoulders". "you" are nothing more than the "tip" of the coral. You don't exist from nothing, you're only here because of their resiliency. I don't get how you can call yourself a "humanist" when beliefs in gods goes so far back as to clearly exist as part of the human condition. Religion is an adaptation no different than science, mathematics, or language. Who are you to say that anything is wrong? by what authority?
romney27 1 year ago
"God" is just a word, it's a concept of the source of the expanding universe. Doesn't seem reasonable to assume that the universe is sourceless. So what ever way science wants to call it, From the "singularity" of the big bang theory, to the imagination of the mind. Thoughts alone can change ones physiology, that is a scientific fact. Believing in gods can change ones demeanor in a positive way if ones choose so. Atheist should just get over themselves, your "opinions" are not science.
romney27 1 year ago
@romney27
Atheists dont necessarily reject god 100%. We can't disprove the existence of a higher consciousness, yet.
They just reject religion, all of which is manmade.
mcpencil 1 year ago
@romney27 i dont hate my ancestors they just had less knowledge then we do and they had smaller frontal lobes, they just werent us. i would rather creatively deal with the present then APE THE WAYS OF MY ANCESTORS. which is what religion does. religion is a lot different then science, religion is just made up sillyness and science is verifiable and founded on evidence and pressure from collegues and peers who want to prove you wrong. HUGE FUCKIN DIFFERENCE.
SelfAware1 1 year ago
@romney27 who am i to say anything is wrong? wow i smell the cultural reletivist seething thru your commentary. by your standards who can say murder is wrong? who can say genital mutilation in africa is wrong? who can say suicide bombers killing innocent people is wrong? because it fucking is, if those things were okay we would not survive as a species.... come on now, that is silly as fuck and you know it. i am a humanists not concerned with any afterlife but concerned about people in this one
SelfAware1 1 year ago
@romney27 I'm an atheist and I believe in God. I don't think God's a deity and I think infinite eons of evolution make it. God's like the child of Mother Nature and Father Time, beauty and wisdom. As mother nature goes forward making beautiful things, time wisely removes the failed mutations and the product of these two things combined makes all life, and that's a miracle. No bearded judging guy in the sky, just, the universe.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho "I'm an atheist and I believe in God."
Yeah, stop saying that.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade look if you're not enlightened enough to catch my drift then you're certainly in no position to give me orders.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho Yeah, stop saying that too. That's just condescending babble. Try making making sense.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade If you can't understand what I'm saying then you must just be plain stupid or something. Maybe they never taught you the word "enlightened". If you were to read the rest of that comment you'd understand what I mean. Atheists do not believe in any deities or superstitions, and I don't either, but I believe in God which is what existence truly is. Maybe the word "God" confused your unenlightened mind and my following explanation failed to help you. The word "God" kinda sucks that way.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho Then. Stop. Saying. God.
Jesus Christ you are thick.
"I believe in God which is what existence truly is."
That's nonsense. You are speaking nonsense. You are a condescending douchebag who throws around words without any sense of their definitions. You'd make a misanthrope out of Mother Teresa.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade Just because you can't understand simple concepts does not mean I'm speaking nonsense. It means you confuse shit with other shit. I call it God because that's just the word most fitting to what I'm trying to say. God is a concept. I don't follow any particular God, I don't believe in any deity, just because one confuses the God I'm talking of with the God of religions and myths and nonsense, doesn't make me full of nonsense, it just means there's a failure of communication. *Sigh*
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho No it isn't the most fitting word. God is a deity. A deity is a god. No definition of god fits what you are talking about, which means you are using the word wrong. When you use words wrong, you are talking nonsense. Is that hard to understand? Or am I talking down to you right now?
If it's a failure of communication, that falls on you and only you. There are definitions to the words you use. You just don't know them. Buy a dictionary or a thesaurus or any book and get "enlightened".
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade By the way the definition I use is the same used by dozens of religions and I'd recommend you do a little research before saying something that'll just be wrong.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho Exactly, which means when you say "I don't believe in the god of religions", you are contradicting yourself.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade btw I don't mean to sound condescending, its just when someone doesn't understand something as simple as what I'm trying to say here, then I of course must assume they aren't "turned on" to it. Maybe I use too many fancy words, but that's just the way I talk.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho There is nothing fancy about the way you talk. Stop feeling so complacent and learn something.
If someone calls you condescending, you must assume you are being condescending. Judging by your incoherent description, you are a materialist.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade I guess you're just too goofy to be able to understand. Too bad for you.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho Too bad some third party hasn't come in to reinforce what an idiot you are.
You've ignored every point I've made and continue to contradict yourself. Too bad.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade Dude... stop trolling me, seriously. Just stop. Its annoying, I've got more important shit to do and my inbox doesn't need to be full of alerts for no reason. Go be angry and hateful to somebody else. Bye.
stfwho 1 year ago
@stfwho Not angry or hateful. Dude, stop using words wrong.
You don't know what a troll is; grow up.
zofspade 1 year ago
Getting your eagle scout is hard work. Congatulate the individual for goal setting and "follow through" and continue to educate the boy scouts...and everyone else.. about tolerance of homosexuality and atheism. maybe in the future with enough enlightened people the biggotry will stop but this is all beyond the scope of the young kid who worked hard and achieved something in the vein of trying to better himself.
xander55577 2 years ago
"but this is all beyond the scope of the young kid who worked hard and achieved something in the vein of trying to better himself."
It would be, if atheist/gay children were allowed to strive for that same achievement, without having to lie about who they are.
ikvsabre 2 years ago
I agree, and I don't want those children to have to lie. thats why I phrased my comment the way I did. It is still larger than the one kid in question and short-changing him to further ones one agenda is unacceptable...to me.
xander55577 2 years ago
Yes, because you have to be oh-so-nice to everyone, even at the expense of your own beliefs and moral decency. Scoff.
JoeDeceiver 1 year ago
I would like to think that maintaining a non-abrasive tone at least allows for civil discussion.
xander55577 1 year ago
I don't think it's black and white as to who is right and wrong here. Yeah, sometimes you should just go along with things so as not to heart people you care about, but sometimes you need to stand up and fight for what you believe in.
I think that's a hallmark of atheism/secularism, not knowing what's 100% right or wrong. But the fact that you give your actions consideration in hindsight says you're not an asshole, to me.
STFUNOWlol 2 years ago
he is the asshole for getting so worked up over you simply sharing your views. other commenters suggested just saying no, but if he would not have been angered by that, adding your opinion should not have made a difference ... i actually was a boyscout once ... i also used to be supposedly christian ... i stress the past tense on those ....
monkeywraith 2 years ago
I was actually kicked out of scouts myself for being an atheist. It was enjoyable, but their bigotry just taints any good that might come of it.
clarkbhenry 2 years ago
I think I would have written the congratulations and said, "Although I think the separatist views of the scouts are dishonorable, I congratulate you on your accomplishments and hope that you will be a voice for change within the scouting community.
toonmonkey 2 years ago
I am just gonna throw in a curve ball.
My brother and I are both eagle scoutsand we don't believe in god. I will be honest I've read about some negative things with scouting such as,back in the day scouts troops denied African Americans in california and this lead to those kids starting gangs in California.
When in scouting I respected the religious based aspecs but I didnt let that affect me I took the leadership skills. I respecet others peoples beliefs like I would like them to respect mine.
kamakazikyle 2 years ago
Why couldn't you have just said "no?" Getting Eagle Scout is really difficult from what I understand. While I agree that BSA is both homophobic and statedly religious (there was an entire Supreme Court case), many of the boys/men involved with the organization just want to go camping and hang out. I DO think that they should standardize their rules.
sepalm1770 2 years ago
No way. You were NOT being an asshole for telling the guy what you told him. You're an asshole for being so concerned and worked up over it. Chill out! My cousin invited me to his son's first "holy communion" and I just said no. I'm busy. You can't force people to think and be rational.
T4148 2 years ago
Basement cat is where it's at! Who wants a cheezburger?
Frightendlibertarian 2 years ago
John 1:5-7 Lolcat Translation Baby Jebus sais Ceiling Cat is made of lyte and win, he has 0 failz.6 If you sez u be down wit Ceiling Cat but has failz, u dont has no wins for realz and ar failzing.7 But if u be down wit Ceiling Cat and haz win, you can has baff wit Baby Jeezuz and cleaneded all ur failz n eevlz.
Frightendlibertarian 2 years ago
i love when you tell someone your atheist they start spitting out bible quotes. im so tired of these christian ppl craming there bs down my throat. i wish they would all go away (atleast the pretentious obnoxious 0nes)
godisarobot 2 years ago
Penn, I love you man....but when it comes to children who are ignorant to issues and still live in the bliss that is the beauty of childhood.....should be exempt from personal views. Just my opinion. The scouts do good things, you should of hooked his soon up, not him.
Surfvolcom77 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
John 16:8
When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: So this is why I pray because the Holy Spirit can convict this man and lead him to repentance. God can lead him to the cross.
2 chronicles 7:14
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Martindrew72 2 years ago
congrates. you can copy and past passages from a bullshit fictional story. your awesome.
atheistnarutofan 2 years ago
Ephesians 3:20-21 (King James Version) 20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Martindrew72 2 years ago
I'm gonna pray for you.
Martindrew72 2 years ago
according to your faith he's going to hell anyway, so why bother?
eeedel 2 years ago
If god is infallible, then your prayer cannot change his plan, and so it is useless to pray for him. Unless it makes you feel better, but then you aren't really doing it for him, are you?
sciencemile 2 years ago
This has nothing to do with the topic, but I fucking love your laugh.
StereoSkater 2 years ago
hey penn would you be mad at your son if he grew up not an atheist? i mean i have a feeling you wont be cuz you have a great out look on human choices a great respect for what people have to say or a way they choose there paths that they take. but ya just wondering
bobbyguy54 2 years ago
While I think it's great to support kids who work hard to acheive something difficult, it's more important to stand up for what's right and send the message that people need to not be so politically correct that they don't point out the bullshit in society. And the Boy Scouts are definitely on the BS list! Penn was right. Principles mean more than trying to be nice.
smacknig 2 years ago
Not that my opinion really matters, but you weren't the dick at all, Penn. He made a request and you told him you weren't going to and specifically cited why; so he wouldn't think you were snubbing him or it was anything personal. You were actually being very polite and thoughtful.
Personally, I'm sick of the quasi-pedophilia in this country. Why is it because it's a kid we have to suck up to him?
Wolverazio 2 years ago
I was an Eagle scout and I sent my badge back to the BSA with a note saying that until they rescinded their decision not to allow atheists and gays in the BSA, I'd have nothing to do with them.
You were right to tell this guy what you did. He was the one being a dick for not respecting your right not to be involved with what has become one of the most bigoted, narrow-minded organizations in the US.
OldeAtheist 2 years ago 12
@OldeAtheist Good job that takes balls.
comicreaper 1 year ago
Well It does seem pretty mean spirited but it's your autograph and really this guy is the dick for trying to push the issue instead of just dropping it.
funktroop3r 2 years ago
An Eagle scout has to do a service project and learn/demonstrate a wide variety of skills. In your shoes, I would have written "congratulations on getting eagle" and scrawled my signature on it, but that's me.
I saw your BS on the BSA and thought it was great. I agree that BSA gets more than even-handed treatment from the government, and I agree that that's wrong. This doesn't lessen the young man's accomplishments. Eagle is hard.
kencomer 2 years ago 2
My father worked For the BSA for over 10 years. He was fired, and screwed over financially. Why?...He was trying to save a person's job. Trying to pass a petition to keep this woman at her post because there was no legitimate reason for her release, he was fired. So not only are they homophobic, discriminating bastards...They are also cold, heartless mother fuckers who don't care how much you've done for them...As long as you keep your mouth shut
kaneman556 2 years ago 2
I feel your pain! Why are people so very much concerned with who others have sex with or what deity they do or do not pray to?
In the immortal words of Rodney King "stop hitting me with that baton".
ubetcha13 2 years ago
I am an Eagle scout, as well as a huge fan of Penn.
Maybe my experience was a bit different (I am from the Left Coast) but in my Boy Scout troop, over half of the families were either non-religious or out-and-out atheist. There were atheist kids, and when the scout master tried to get us all to read the bible, almost everyone refused. None of use got kicked out.
LibertineEagle 2 years ago
I was in Cub Scouts, and it was mostly just fun craft-y things for kids to do. None of the practices were religious in any way. Maybe the religious stuff ramps up as you increase in rank.
tomkcheng 2 years ago
You were kind of being a dick, but at the same time I understand your reasoning. You were given a loaded request pretty much, so it could have gone either way. Maybe you could have sent him an email saying "congratulations on working hard to achieve goals you've striven for." Something of that sort would probably make him feel good about his successes and you wouldn't be endorsing the boy scouts, but rather his individual achievements. We'll just call it a loophole.
kingaustin24 2 years ago
Penn wasn't a dick, he did say he'll give an autograph pic or a autograph vid of the BS bit he did on BSA.
the ending cracked me up,
'now im worked, maybe i'll write another email'
that was hilarious
adpbobcat 2 years ago
Nope, I don't think you were being a dick. I think that eagle scouts need to be brought down a few pegs. Nothing I hate more than someone saying they were an eagle scout. It's like those kids that went to space camp. Or the ones who got to go on school field trips to Europe or cancun for 3-5 grand. Or even those that went to ivy league colleges while you pounded sand in Iraq doing foot patrols. You just want to punch them in the gut for having parents with money. Gotta Love Lower Class
CluppHead 2 years ago
I am an atheist and was in the BSA as a boy. I did not reach Eagle because I realized I was being force fed superstition and that I no longer wanted to be part of an organization that required its members to practise a religon. But I have enrolled my young son. I want him to learn and experience the good parts of that time of my childhood and once he is of an age to know and speak his mind if he no longer wants to remain in the boyscouts he will have my full support.
sirwaldo999 2 years ago
NO. No you are not the asshole in this situation Penn.
He was asking you for a favor. And when you politely declined his specific request because of closely held personal beliefs while offering a very generous compromise, he became argumentative and even chastised you for sticking to what you believe in.
If it was you asking him for the favor, then it might be different. But as it stands, I think you did the right thing.
ogjimkenobi 2 years ago 3
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Sometimes is hard to do the right thing. Sometimes you have to be a dick to do the right thing.
KhamusSolo 2 years ago 3
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Yep, Penn was the dick in this situation.
There is rarely any benefit to raising the conversational temperature.
thebeardedone 2 years ago
Avraham Stern -- devout Jew, Zionist terrorist, Israeli national hero -- wanted to collaborate with Hitler in the worst way. Well-documented.
funboy7979 2 years ago 5
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am i loaded or did penn just say he's gay
duffman13045 2 years ago
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If you take what he is saying out of context.
gasemother 2 years ago
i didnt know that. so, even you just happen to be atheist, youre not trying to change anything, you just want to have fun and learn to start a campfire and help a old lady across a street, theyre going to say "no, go away" and make the kid cry? thats really sad.
grendelee 2 years ago 3
By setting up a situation in which honest people must lie, the Boy Scouts are actually damaging the society they're claiming to benefit. This kind of thing is the root of totalitarianism--instilling shame in people for their thought-crime transgressions. Perhaps there is silver lining in that within that context intelligent freethinkers can learn how to subvert such numbskull organizations.
mapmanic 2 years ago 8
The Boy Scouts have been ripe with hypocrisy and morally questionable behavior for some time. I was a Boy Scout some time ago (mid to late 90's) and reached the Life rank. What made me stop there was that 3 other scouts were trying for Eagle; the Scoutmaster's Son, the Assistant Scoutmaster's Son, and another Boy. This third boy would have to fight for his Eagle because he had a drug charge on his criminal record from prior to joining Boy Scouts.
Boevis 2 years ago
He was the only one to do all the work for his project, and didn't receive help from the SM or ASM despite helping their sons projects. Their sons received help from DeWalt where the SM worked as well as state Engineers. Eagle Projects are supposed to be Scout Driven, not major companies. My father was offered a job by the ASM (a manager for the State Department) if he [b]gave[/b] the SMs son the last Merit Badges he needed. He refused and was told I would never get Eagle. I quit.
Boevis 2 years ago
@mapmanic they wouldnt have lied if they were honest would they?
joeratti 1 year ago
@mapmanic Sounds a lot like a religion.
comicreaper 1 year ago
How exactly, as some have posted, is the young man's membership in an organization that excludes and, by proxy, demonizes other human beings, some how morally neutral?
jcpkanaloa 2 years ago
Israel exists because Zionists claim their INVISIBLE RACIST CLOUD FATHER promised it to them thousands of years ago. This fairy tale justifies the Palestinian apartheid/genocide, and US taxpayers giving hundreds of billions to pay for it.
How can Penn Jillette, self-described "libertarian" and "militant atheist," support the most egregious example of unjustified government expense and religion-based government policy?
Penn Jillette: Zionist shill.
zooooooperdooooooper 2 years ago
It's a shame really. The organization has so much potential but is weighed down by zealot intolerance.
I'm an atheist eagle scout and it truly shames me to see the way the leadership is in BSA. At a local level troops can very radically, but when you get higher up, thats when you start to get to the intolerant zealots.
IMO, you should of just congratulated the kid and honored his commitment and responsablilty in his achievement, regardless of the shitty higher-ups. The kid is whats important
atheistvstheist 2 years ago 2
I would say don't bend your ethical and moral beliefs or facts if you will for anything or anyone.
WhoJoo 2 years ago
This is hard because we're talking about a kid who believes he has achieved something really special, and on a certain level he has. Unfortunately, the group with which he's achieved it is bigoted.
They take tax money and exclude gays and atheists unless they lie, or at least keep quiet about their orientation or atheism.
If everything else was the same but it was the KKK Scouts would we be having this conversation?
I'm sorry about the boy, but it's really his parents' fault.
GalapagosPete 2 years ago
Douche move, Penn. Altho I know WHY you feel that way. seems like a close topic to you. also send me an autograph, but instead of just signing your name, draw a dick. thx <3
NuLLx42 2 years ago
I am a Penn&Teller fan and I like alot of what Penn has to say but yes in this particular case Penn you are the Dick!.....lol!
Just being honest............
ConservativeAtheist 2 years ago
Also, when I was a scout, Clinton was president and I believe that after the No Gays thing, President Clinton restricted the scouts federal parks privileges. But, knowing Bush, that was probably reversed.
WARDOG1138 2 years ago
oh, I also remember that when the scouts decided to keep gays out, the scouting community became very divided on the issue, it was a big split. that summer at our summer camp there was a heated debate around every corner.
WARDOG1138 2 years ago
As an Eagle Scout I have to agree with the author you're Talking about. My troop took the view about the point in the scout law (there are 12 points) "a scout is reverent" as a scout should respect the religion of others. Some troops are 100% moron, some 100% baptist, etc. most are mixed w/ secularists, christians, jews, etc. The boy scouts are a very difficult thing to understand if you weren't a part of it, just like what was said in this video about Jazz.
WARDOG1138 2 years ago
.....My point was that our troop said, as a scout you should be respectful, but you don't have to be a participating or radical religious person, many of my fellow scouts from the troop were openly agnostic and many of the other scouts and troops were just fine with that. I personally am a deist. so anyways, as I said...complicated. However I would be more than happy to discuss that further, and being a fan of Jazz wouldn't have a problem discussing that either.
WARDOG1138 2 years ago
Not that being a gay Christian puts me in any particularly good position to say that "you're right" or something similar, but it's not like you were denying the achievement of the kid, just you were criticizing the organization, and really you have every right do that.
admstoker 2 years ago
I would have just asked to talk to his son...kids generally are open minded and not stupid. I'm sure he would have understood even if he was really young.
1337Ideaman 2 years ago
It is really interesting when you look at the insiders view on this issue. From my experience most of the animosity occurs in the higher ups of the BSA. However the lowers are forced to follow their ways or loose their jobs. Their is a lot of animosity within the BSA towards Nationals because of these issues.
purgal20 2 years ago
I worked at a Boy Scout camp for several years and I worked with Gays and atheists, and all sorts of people who shouldn't be in Boy Scouts. Two of my gay friends were outed and got kicked out. The boy scouts are a great organization but they limit themselves with their archaic backwards ways. They are very hateful when they kick people out. It is really sad that they cling the way they do when similar organizations like the Girl Scouts have become all inclusive. I understand your view.
purgal20 2 years ago
You're going to get a lot of crazy comments from those oh so compassionate christians... but I say BRAVO to you, sir. Nicely said.
LoriAretz 2 years ago
You're an idiot.
AwwwGoCryGerber 2 years ago
Too late for what? The apocalypse? The guy wasn't alive in my lifetime, he didn't save me from anything and I don't have lords from thousands of years ago or any lord for that matter.
AnAverageSkeptic 2 years ago 2
LOL that ending was great, I thought you were going to be conciliatory etc. but you worked yourself up again heh heh. :-)
dorbie 2 years ago
What you should have done is written a congratulatory note to the whole Eagle Scout pack, signed by "Penn (atheist)" and let the pack leader decide whether it gets shown to the kids or not. Then if they decide not to pass it on, they're the "bad guy", and you've given the scouts a chance to contradict the established rules of their own group. In other words, rest the deliver-ability of the autograph on the very weakness of the group you object to, and see what happens.
planetdarwin 2 years ago
Penn you young boy loving heathen
cuttock 2 years ago
fuck u pen u fat atheist faggot
joeyp203 2 years ago
This ending to this made laugh so hard.
Seriously, though... I'm on your side, Penn.
It's not pleasant, but can NEVER COMPROMISE.
I'm proud that you didn't. Even if you lose friends.
If you're right, you're right and fuck the wrong... no matter how harsh.
g1Chase357 2 years ago 2
what part of the crack pipe is this guy licking???? i like his magic but leave the personal stuff at the door he is standing in front of. the scouts are a time honored tradition that was made before his time and long after he is worm food! they will be there. so what if they have rules if the world had no rules look at what state we would be in.
riztar 2 years ago
penn, you are a big A-hole. the kid probably doesn't even know who you are. the father was just trying to be nice and you showed how big an ASS you are.
THEoriginalRIcHARDS 2 years ago
You have to stand up for your principles. It's not about making friends.
g1Chase357 2 years ago 2
I am sorry I came to your show. Wow, what lack of class did you show my friend.
Formertelecomguy 2 years ago
I wish more people would take a stand in these types of situations. It's easy to get upset about stuff like this because we (atheists) have to hear this crap all the time. I hate when anyone says "you have to pick your battles..." That's bullshit! Life itself is a battle, and the smart people have to fight off the stupid people at every turn. It gets old. Anyway, I'm just ranting now. Ha...
jimmycorn 2 years ago 2
Good for you Penn, though we feel hopelessly surrounded we must keep our chin up and fight the good fight! Having a stance against bigots does not make you an ass. That would be a title more befitting the right wing.
jamoomaj 2 years ago 3
First time I've disagreed with one of your videos..... I think I'll agree with the author at least about choosing your battles. Despite what you say in the Bullshit videos, the Boy Scouts of America do a lot of charity work and community service (and I know you'd agree that charities are preferable to the government spending our money to do that)
thugless 2 years ago
A futurist, is someone who looks to the future the way nostalgics look to the past.
Paradoxical003 2 years ago
Apparently this guy didn't watch much BS because had he I would hope he would have better sense than to ask you to send a congratulatory letter for his son. If he could not respect your views on a discriminatory organization then he wasn't much of a friend in the first place. I think it's no big loss for you Penn.
AzhiDahaki9 2 years ago
i bet the kkk bbq food is probably pretty good. cross burned food sounds up my alley
ingibingi2000 2 years ago
you know theres a thing called don't ask don't tell if your gay ok just don't go around telling everyone and its fine which i dought you would do anyway and if your an atheist they really don't care just don't go around announcing it to everyone and its fine you dont have to lie about who you are frankly no one cares if your gay or atheist just dont be telling important people.
cartthew 2 years ago
The problem is announcing it to the world, it's the exclusion. One can freely admit to being straight or gay, but not allowing someone into an organization because they are gay or straight is wrong. What's even worse is they get tax payer money, so this isn't a private organization anymore; it's a public organization which excludes anyone who is gay, or does not believe in God.
You ever heard of separation of church and state?
EmbersOfEden 2 years ago
thats true i didnt think about that it is wrong for them to say that and i dont think its fair but. soething that bugs me is that penn and most of the people that agree with them hate everyone in boy scouts even that hard working boys that happen to fit the description and not just the people that dont think thats gays and atheists should be boyscouts
cartthew 2 years ago
Right on! You're not in the wrong on this one. You stuck up to your beliefs, let them know your opinion, and tried to educate someone a little bit.
DZiemke 2 years ago
They don't allow girls either...geesh!
tlatkin 2 years ago
I think they should create a scouting organization in which the troops are comprised of 9 girls and 1 guy. That's an organization I can support!
leereyno 2 years ago 2
It depends on the troop. My troop here in Columbus Ohio allows my son (I am an athiest and former scout) as well as a boy with a lesbian mother to participate and we have never been made unwelcomed by anyone in the troop. I also agree scouts should not put their hands out for government money nor should any other group.
banoboman 2 years ago
Penn never discusses Israel's Palestinian apartheid/genocide, even though it is the most egregious example of what libertarians & atheists are against: unjustified government spending & government policy based in religious belief.
Why?
Penn Jillette is a self-described "cultural Jew." The TV show that bears his name, "Penn & Teller: Bullshit" is actually owned by über-Zionist Sumner Redstone. This slickly-produced fake "personal video diary" is owned by Sony, run by Zionist Howard Stringer.
tonzimala 2 years ago
"I'm a non-practicing cultural Jew" is a Jewish person's way of saying "I'm an atheist." For further understanding, see: Lewis Black.
HelplessVictim 2 years ago
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And kids, this is why it's important to take your meds every day....
plipsig 2 years ago
The Boy Scouts bar gays & atheists. They are supported in part with government resources. It is right to condemn the Boy Scouts & government support of them.
Israel restricts the movement of Palestinians and confines them to ghettos, walled off from utility grids and highways, & every so often bombs the hell out of th