there are plenty of non-combat options for feats and talents, you just have to branch out into other books. this is a limit to this though, as there should be. i.e. a level 8 or 9 character should have SOME combat feats, otherwise how did they get to 9th level?
@kradrol Correct, which is why I wanted to clarify in my review that my experience was only with the corebook and the first few supplements that were released.
Still, the d20 System is a fairly combat-oriented system, much as you point out. A 9th-level character is expected to have seen lots of combat. That's a general contention that I have with d20, as I don't find that a very agreeable model. It works fine for our gung-ho PCs but doesn't emulate many NPCs very well...like my example Jedi.
@Webhead123 but doesn't that model apply to basically all role playing systems? do you not gain experience in the d6 system for defeating monsters and accomplishing other goals? the other aspect of this point is that level doesn't equal worldly experience or character age. you could have a non-combat npc who is very wise, and has been around for along time. but since he is non-combat he is easy to kill in combat. that same would aplly in real life.
@kradrol Not as such. In the D6 System, experience rewards aren't very explicitly "formulaic". Defeating 10 Stormtroopers doesn't necessarily award more "XP" to the PCs than defeating 5. Characters could also presumably earn as much XP in completely non-combat adventures as those that are nothing but.
More to my intended point though, character progression is context-specific. You could have a character who has, say, very high aptitude in bargaining and inter-personal skills but who has...
...never held a weapon their entire life. Where an interconnected "Level-based" system like the one we see in d20 makes this difficult is that the "Level" establishes certain limitations. A character is restricted in the number of ranks they can have in *any* skill by their Level. So, the aforementioned character could only be *so* good at bargaining before they must be "leveled-up" to allow them to progress further. And with extra levels comes more BAB, Hit Points, Feats, etc.
...suggesting is that, because "Level" has such weight upon characters in d20 System-derived games through the accumulation of new abilities and because, often, so many of those new abilities are designed with a bias toward increasing combat capability, this ultimately means that all PCs take on increases in combat-function, even if/when such a thing doesn't really make sense. Again, it's hard to represent a "high-skill" character without making them "high-Level" simply due to how the game works
The Force Unleashed and Knights of the Old Republic sourcebooks are excellent additions to the SAGA edition. So much good content in those books. Definitely two keepers if you prefer to game Star Wars d6 rather than d20 Saga edition.
Wow it surprises me that you are even able to play without a grid there are so many things that are distance dependent. when I very first started GM'ing I never used a grid, after I tried it the first time I loved it, made everything more real and present to the player, also added a fun tactical/strategy element to the game.
It's very easy and works basically the same way as character-scale combat but using different skills. You typically use "Starship Weapons" skill to attack, the appropriate "Piloting" skill to dodge (Starfighter, Transport or Capital) and "Sensors" and "Starship Shields" to manage your ship's systems. More accurate weapons have "Fire Control" which adds bonuses to attacks. Ships have a "Hull" rating which is used to resist damage and shields simply add to that until they are blown. Great system.
@favoritefella Yeah, I noticed that too at one point. At the time of this video, I believe I had lost about 30 pounds as I was involved in a weight-loss contest at work. I have since put a bit of it back on but I think the experience was still worthwhile.
Oh yes, the number of non-combat feats issue is basically what I found the biggest flaw in character creation in this game. I hate when a game gives me 'many different options', but all are very combat-centric. One of my major gripes with this game.
@ChrisFinch87 That's a flaw in d20, period. 3e and 4e. They put all of the feats into one pool, and you're forced to choose between flavor and mechanics in them.
You don't really need the minis, but if you need some type of physical representation you can use anything, e.g. dice are great because you can identify the scrubs (4 and 6 sided dice), Heroes (8 and 10 sided) and the BIG BADS (20 - 30 sided). Also, color is useful...white for storm troopers, black for sith, etc etc.
I bought the core book and a couple of the extras and am finally looking to run a game but I really need some help with circumventing the fact that i need some kind of miniatures for combat. I've only ever played one other system which was purely narrative and dont have the money nor the will to use miniatures of any kind, i really want to keep things narrative. Any tips on how to do this?
Great thoughts man and I totally agree with you on the "battle mat" front. That was one of the first things I chucked out of my game. With a few minor tweaks I felt it ran pretty well. Thanks!
there are plenty of non-combat options for feats and talents, you just have to branch out into other books. this is a limit to this though, as there should be. i.e. a level 8 or 9 character should have SOME combat feats, otherwise how did they get to 9th level?
kradrol 1 month ago
@kradrol Correct, which is why I wanted to clarify in my review that my experience was only with the corebook and the first few supplements that were released.
Still, the d20 System is a fairly combat-oriented system, much as you point out. A 9th-level character is expected to have seen lots of combat. That's a general contention that I have with d20, as I don't find that a very agreeable model. It works fine for our gung-ho PCs but doesn't emulate many NPCs very well...like my example Jedi.
Webhead123 1 month ago
@Webhead123 but doesn't that model apply to basically all role playing systems? do you not gain experience in the d6 system for defeating monsters and accomplishing other goals? the other aspect of this point is that level doesn't equal worldly experience or character age. you could have a non-combat npc who is very wise, and has been around for along time. but since he is non-combat he is easy to kill in combat. that same would aplly in real life.
kradrol 1 month ago
@kradrol Not as such. In the D6 System, experience rewards aren't very explicitly "formulaic". Defeating 10 Stormtroopers doesn't necessarily award more "XP" to the PCs than defeating 5. Characters could also presumably earn as much XP in completely non-combat adventures as those that are nothing but.
More to my intended point though, character progression is context-specific. You could have a character who has, say, very high aptitude in bargaining and inter-personal skills but who has...
Webhead123 1 month ago
...never held a weapon their entire life. Where an interconnected "Level-based" system like the one we see in d20 makes this difficult is that the "Level" establishes certain limitations. A character is restricted in the number of ranks they can have in *any* skill by their Level. So, the aforementioned character could only be *so* good at bargaining before they must be "leveled-up" to allow them to progress further. And with extra levels comes more BAB, Hit Points, Feats, etc.
All I'm...
Webhead123 1 month ago
...suggesting is that, because "Level" has such weight upon characters in d20 System-derived games through the accumulation of new abilities and because, often, so many of those new abilities are designed with a bias toward increasing combat capability, this ultimately means that all PCs take on increases in combat-function, even if/when such a thing doesn't really make sense. Again, it's hard to represent a "high-skill" character without making them "high-Level" simply due to how the game works
Webhead123 1 month ago
...Oops...sorry! I meant to say "all *characters* take on increases in combat-function".
Webhead123 1 month ago
The Force Unleashed and Knights of the Old Republic sourcebooks are excellent additions to the SAGA edition. So much good content in those books. Definitely two keepers if you prefer to game Star Wars d6 rather than d20 Saga edition.
GoongalaGoongala 3 months ago
Wow it surprises me that you are even able to play without a grid there are so many things that are distance dependent. when I very first started GM'ing I never used a grid, after I tried it the first time I loved it, made everything more real and present to the player, also added a fun tactical/strategy element to the game.
lowew79 4 months ago
Comment removed
lowew79 4 months ago
I got the Saga Edition by Monopoly, my fourth monopoly and my second SW monopoly! :)
cad0bane 6 months ago
I never got a chance to play the west end d6 version. How is ship-to-ship combat in that?
LeftoverJedi 8 months ago
It's very easy and works basically the same way as character-scale combat but using different skills. You typically use "Starship Weapons" skill to attack, the appropriate "Piloting" skill to dodge (Starfighter, Transport or Capital) and "Sensors" and "Starship Shields" to manage your ship's systems. More accurate weapons have "Fire Control" which adds bonuses to attacks. Ships have a "Hull" rating which is used to resist damage and shields simply add to that until they are blown. Great system.
Webhead123 8 months ago
In comparison to your RPG Classics review, you look like you lost a lot of weight. Good job!
favoritefella 10 months ago
@favoritefella Yeah, I noticed that too at one point. At the time of this video, I believe I had lost about 30 pounds as I was involved in a weight-loss contest at work. I have since put a bit of it back on but I think the experience was still worthwhile.
Webhead123 10 months ago
Oh yes, the number of non-combat feats issue is basically what I found the biggest flaw in character creation in this game. I hate when a game gives me 'many different options', but all are very combat-centric. One of my major gripes with this game.
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 That's a flaw in d20, period. 3e and 4e. They put all of the feats into one pool, and you're forced to choose between flavor and mechanics in them.
Droogie128 10 months ago
@Droogie128 Correct, which is one of the reasons I have come to dislike the d20 System and almost all of the games driven by it.
Webhead123 10 months ago
@riteguard:
You don't really need the minis, but if you need some type of physical representation you can use anything, e.g. dice are great because you can identify the scrubs (4 and 6 sided dice), Heroes (8 and 10 sided) and the BIG BADS (20 - 30 sided). Also, color is useful...white for storm troopers, black for sith, etc etc.
lamewing 1 year ago
I bought the core book and a couple of the extras and am finally looking to run a game but I really need some help with circumventing the fact that i need some kind of miniatures for combat. I've only ever played one other system which was purely narrative and dont have the money nor the will to use miniatures of any kind, i really want to keep things narrative. Any tips on how to do this?
riteguard22 1 year ago
@riteguard22 Gimp
ZeroSkool 1 year ago
Great thoughts man and I totally agree with you on the "battle mat" front. That was one of the first things I chucked out of my game. With a few minor tweaks I felt it ran pretty well. Thanks!
DeTzardis 1 year ago
good to see you back, nice vid
woodwwad 1 year ago