Thank you father for you insight for The Ladder of divine ascent. With great sorrow I have to disagree with you when you make statements such as: There is no hell until after the 2nd coming and that the tall-houses constitutes a heresy of the church without citing any patristic references to back up your statements. Otherwise it becomes just your personal view and no more than that! (to b continued)...
1st of all we know that the teachings of the Toll-Houses do not constitutes a church dogma; nevertheless it is not a heresy as you see it!many great saints and fathers of the church have spoke about it, as well as about hell and personal judgment and just because we sinners of this world do not comprehend it with our rational mind, that doesnt mean they do not exist, as they represent a great mystery for us. Just few examples of church fathers advocating for the toll-houses:
St. Athanasius the Great in his famous book life of st Anthony the Great, St John Chrysostom speaks about the world rulers of the air, who are called persecutors or publicans or tax-collectors, St Isaiah the Recluse in his Homily 5:22 and 17, St Hesychius, Presbyter of Jerusalem, St Gregory the Dialogist, St Ephraim the Syrian, John the Damascene, Bishop Ignatius of the Antioch...
the Holy Scripture itself, see Eph 6:12, 13; 2:2; Titus 2:8; II Cor 1:22; etc, etc, etc (it is not enough room here to mention more). I think we should document ourselves more on a particular subject (and pay attention to what other great saints had to say) before we become so quick to qualify one aspect or another on the great mysteries of our church, otherwise we risk ourselves to become heretics.
@ela123poochie Read The Nature of Heaven and Hell According to the Hoky Fathers, available from Light and Life Puhlishing Co. You wil
l find the3 same information in St Mark of Epoehsus' TEN REFUTATIONS AGAINST THE CARDINALS. You will find that you are disagreeing with the consensus of the Holy Fathers.
@allsaintsmonastery Hell is not a place. After the secondcoming, mankind is reserected, then theres the judgement, after that those who aren't saved are detroyed in the Lake of Fire!!!
1st of all we know that the teachings of the Toll-Houses do not constitutes a church dogma; nevertheless it is not a heresy as you see it!many great saints and fathers of the church have spoke about it, as well as about hell and personal judgment and just because we sinners of this world do not comprehend it with our rational mind, that doesnt mean they do not exist, as they represent a great mystery for us. Just few examples of church fathers advocating for the toll-houses:
St. Athanasius the Great in his famous book life of st Anthony the Great, St John Chrysostom speaks about the world rulers of the air, who are called persecutors or publicans or tax-collectors, St Isaiah the Recluse in his Homily 5:22 and 17, St Hesychius, Presbyter of Jerusalem, St Gregory the Dialogist, St Ephraim the Syrian, John the Damascene, Bishop Ignatius of the Antioch...
the Holy Scripture itself, see Eph 6:12, 13; 2:2; Titus 2:8; II Cor 1:22; etc, etc, etc (it is not enough room here to mention more). I think we should document ourselves more on a particular subject (and pay attention to what other great saints had to say) before we become so quick to qualify one aspect or another on the great mysteries of our church, otherwise we risk ourselves to become heretics.
I suspect that St. Andrew meant the statement metaphorically. He wanted to inform us that we can become as evil as the demons are, since evil is total separation from the Good. Hell does not exist yet, as St Mark of Ephesus says, because it is not a geographical "place," but a state of being. It cannot be experienced until the soul is re-united with the body. I would suggest that you read THE RIVER OF FIRE and THE NATURE OF HEAVEN AND HELL, from Synaxis Press.
Thank for your insightful videos. I was wondering how exactly does hell not exist till the second coming? i thought hell was and heaven were here as earth is the middle ground for the two. also can you explain how demons could tremble at people being overly evil. i would think that would be encouraged by the evil one. thank you.
Continued: When we speak of the "partial judgment," what we mean is that the soul, since it contains the intellect and the conscience, immediately becomes aware of the fate that awaits it at the resurrection, that is, total separation from the love, light and glory of God, and the eternal torment of the conscience, "bitter regret" as St Abba Isaak the Syrian terms it.
Thank you father for you insight for The Ladder of divine ascent. With great sorrow I have to disagree with you when you make statements such as: There is no hell until after the 2nd coming and that the tall-houses constitutes a heresy of the church without citing any patristic references to back up your statements. Otherwise it becomes just your personal view and no more than that! (to be continued)
@balancex3 After the second coming, theres the judgement, then those that aren't saved will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire. This myth that one automatically goes to Hell when they die is a protestant myth that they inherited from the church of Rome!!!
Thank you Vladika. I just bought a copy of the Ladder and started reading it. I have the addition from the Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston MA.
I realise that I am 5 months late in answering this, but generally, all the translations from Holy Transfiguration are the best, especially the Psalter.
I first saw the ladder at Μετεωρα in 1999. It is a mysterious ladder of the kadosh indeed. Bless you for raising it. Thrice peace.
Jenawahrheit 1 year ago
Christ is Risen!
Thank you father for you insight for The Ladder of divine ascent. With great sorrow I have to disagree with you when you make statements such as: There is no hell until after the 2nd coming and that the tall-houses constitutes a heresy of the church without citing any patristic references to back up your statements. Otherwise it becomes just your personal view and no more than that! (to b continued)...
ela123poochie 1 year ago
1st of all we know that the teachings of the Toll-Houses do not constitutes a church dogma; nevertheless it is not a heresy as you see it!many great saints and fathers of the church have spoke about it, as well as about hell and personal judgment and just because we sinners of this world do not comprehend it with our rational mind, that doesnt mean they do not exist, as they represent a great mystery for us. Just few examples of church fathers advocating for the toll-houses:
ela123poochie 1 year ago
St. Athanasius the Great in his famous book life of st Anthony the Great, St John Chrysostom speaks about the world rulers of the air, who are called persecutors or publicans or tax-collectors, St Isaiah the Recluse in his Homily 5:22 and 17, St Hesychius, Presbyter of Jerusalem, St Gregory the Dialogist, St Ephraim the Syrian, John the Damascene, Bishop Ignatius of the Antioch...
ela123poochie 1 year ago
the Holy Scripture itself, see Eph 6:12, 13; 2:2; Titus 2:8; II Cor 1:22; etc, etc, etc (it is not enough room here to mention more). I think we should document ourselves more on a particular subject (and pay attention to what other great saints had to say) before we become so quick to qualify one aspect or another on the great mysteries of our church, otherwise we risk ourselves to become heretics.
I ask your forgiveness. Amen!
ela123poochie 1 year ago
@ela123poochie Read The Nature of Heaven and Hell According to the Hoky Fathers, available from Light and Life Puhlishing Co. You wil
l find the3 same information in St Mark of Epoehsus' TEN REFUTATIONS AGAINST THE CARDINALS. You will find that you are disagreeing with the consensus of the Holy Fathers.
allsaintsmonastery 1 year ago
@allsaintsmonastery Hell is not a place. After the secondcoming, mankind is reserected, then theres the judgement, after that those who aren't saved are detroyed in the Lake of Fire!!!
kayaburning 1 year ago
1st of all we know that the teachings of the Toll-Houses do not constitutes a church dogma; nevertheless it is not a heresy as you see it!many great saints and fathers of the church have spoke about it, as well as about hell and personal judgment and just because we sinners of this world do not comprehend it with our rational mind, that doesnt mean they do not exist, as they represent a great mystery for us. Just few examples of church fathers advocating for the toll-houses:
ela123poochie 1 year ago
St. Athanasius the Great in his famous book life of st Anthony the Great, St John Chrysostom speaks about the world rulers of the air, who are called persecutors or publicans or tax-collectors, St Isaiah the Recluse in his Homily 5:22 and 17, St Hesychius, Presbyter of Jerusalem, St Gregory the Dialogist, St Ephraim the Syrian, John the Damascene, Bishop Ignatius of the Antioch...
ela123poochie 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the Holy Scripture itself, see Eph 6:12, 13; 2:2; Titus 2:8; II Cor 1:22; etc, etc, etc (it is not enough room here to mention more). I think we should document ourselves more on a particular subject (and pay attention to what other great saints had to say) before we become so quick to qualify one aspect or another on the great mysteries of our church, otherwise we risk ourselves to become heretics.
I ask your forgiveness. Amen!
ela123poochie 1 year ago
I am confused? Hell does not exist yet? I need to re-educate my self in Holy Orthodoxy.
In Christ
Nektarios
E3Harrison 3 years ago
I suspect that St. Andrew meant the statement metaphorically. He wanted to inform us that we can become as evil as the demons are, since evil is total separation from the Good. Hell does not exist yet, as St Mark of Ephesus says, because it is not a geographical "place," but a state of being. It cannot be experienced until the soul is re-united with the body. I would suggest that you read THE RIVER OF FIRE and THE NATURE OF HEAVEN AND HELL, from Synaxis Press.
allsaintsmonastery 3 years ago
Thank you Archbishop Lazar. I will be sure to read those books. I'm very curious as to how baptism is is related to partial judgment if at all.
balancex3 3 years ago
Thank for your insightful videos. I was wondering how exactly does hell not exist till the second coming? i thought hell was and heaven were here as earth is the middle ground for the two. also can you explain how demons could tremble at people being overly evil. i would think that would be encouraged by the evil one. thank you.
balancex3 3 years ago
Continued: When we speak of the "partial judgment," what we mean is that the soul, since it contains the intellect and the conscience, immediately becomes aware of the fate that awaits it at the resurrection, that is, total separation from the love, light and glory of God, and the eternal torment of the conscience, "bitter regret" as St Abba Isaak the Syrian terms it.
allsaintsmonastery 3 years ago
@allsaintsmonastery
Christ is Risen!
Thank you father for you insight for The Ladder of divine ascent. With great sorrow I have to disagree with you when you make statements such as: There is no hell until after the 2nd coming and that the tall-houses constitutes a heresy of the church without citing any patristic references to back up your statements. Otherwise it becomes just your personal view and no more than that! (to be continued)
ela123poochie 1 year ago
@balancex3 After the second coming, theres the judgement, then those that aren't saved will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire. This myth that one automatically goes to Hell when they die is a protestant myth that they inherited from the church of Rome!!!
kayaburning 1 year ago
Hell doesnt exist yet ? it wont exist until the second coming? can you explain this...
DangeloM27 3 years ago
Thank you Vladika. I just bought a copy of the Ladder and started reading it. I have the addition from the Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston MA.
I heard it was pretty much the best translation.
BorislavX 3 years ago
I realise that I am 5 months late in answering this, but generally, all the translations from Holy Transfiguration are the best, especially the Psalter.
allsaintsmonastery 3 years ago