Firedance: Kathak/Flamenco collaboration

[Desi4evah]

This is so beautiful. So cherishable. :) Thank you for sharing.

One question: I know Katthak has mudras, which have a meaning with every step. What does Flamenco have?

[sharjoshi]

This doesn't surprise me either. First time I saw flamenco , I thought of kathak.

[musicislife383]

nice

[malcolmbryant]

Compare and contrast two graceful and beautiful forms of expression that have been conceived in one and evolved in two separate cultures.

[flamencoaustralia]

Great work!

[Cordoba82]

With the understanding that I have no knowledge of Indian dances and not that much more of Flamenco, I must say that this is just beautiful! The styles complement each other in a magnificent way! Thank you for share this with us Persona, thank you very much

[gonedoolali]

Both originate from one place! Rajestan -Flamenco being DIRECTLY decedent from there -Please youtube and search Doud Gypsy -You'll get it

[happybuddha33]

This doesn't surprise me at all. The first time I saw kathak I was put in the mind of Flamenco...then again, I'd already known that the gypsies came from India, so I guess I had a heads up. lol....

[shiva4ever]

I am sorry but the Kathak is of a very deplorable quality. It's danced without any conviction, it's not at all crisp and is all over the place. Made me wince.

[AAAAA010AAAAA]

so beautiful amazing!

[borenaboat]

Both musics and styles are based on sufi tradition. Flamenco by arabs(emevi) kathak by indian culture. But main bridge is ottoman empire where sufism was born and developed itself. Today we can see very close smilartiy with tasavvuf music in the middle of anatolia.

[muthushiv]

some compromises have been made (esp with Kathak). It looks nice over all.

[chevonayendedancer]

it comes from Jewish,moorish,gypsy,Indian , french,spanish everything it looks good it is touching and wonderful.

[cheyennigans]

If you're in Toronto, you can see Esmeralda dance with in a show featuring Mercedes Ruiz November 15 at the St. Lawrence Centre. It's part of the 2nd annual Toronto International Flamenco Festival.

Live flamenco! So hot!

[hippocampus23]

Surprisingly, kathak and flamenco have alot in common.

[hannahnj]

well the Gypsys originally come from Northern India... they travelled to Spain and the dance form was changed along the way... so flamenco has its roots in India.

[silviaCMForo]

Flamenco embodies a complex musical and cultural tradition. Although considered part of the culture of Spain in general, flamenco actually originates from one region: Andalusia, Extremadura and Murcia,

It is generally acknowledged that flamenco grew out of the unique interplay of native Arabic, Andalusian, Sephardic, and Gypsy cultures that existed in Andalusia. Latin American and especially Cuban influences have also been important. So flamenco hasn´t its roots in India.

[redfenderjazz]

Doesnt have roots in India? Really??? Have you ever seen Roma? or heard the language? The Roma language sounds a lot closer to it's Sanskrit root than it does to Spanish or Arabic/Hebrew and the ones I know and have seen look an awful lot more Indian than people from Extremadura and Murcia. Cuban influence in Flamenco weren't the Spanish Roma doing this kind of dance/music before there was any dance/music that was recognizably Cuban or 'Latin'.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@redfenderjazz Though it's apparently true that "Gypsies" have roots in India, Flamenco existed before the Gypsies arrived in Spain. I studied with a woman who is Roma/Gypsy and a dance scholar. Flamenco wasn't created by the Spanish Gypsies, sorry. However, the Moors and Arabs who were responsible for creating Flamenco may have been influenced by Gypsies in their native countries, who knows.

[mmedefarge]

@ZoraidaAllat Flamenco looks absolutely nothing like Arabic dance. The hallmark of Flamenco is intricate, percussive footwork, hand & arm movements & contains very little isolated pelvic movement or none at all. Arabic dance is just the opposite, concentrating on isolated pelvic movement with little in the way of footwork. Dancers of Kathak & Flamenco attest to the similar positions & dance movements. The Arabs contributed much to Spain but flamenco was NOT one of them.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@mmedefarge You say "Arabic dance" as if there is only one type of Arabic dance, which simply shows your ignorance about the dances of the world! Modern Kathak is actually heavily influenced by Persian dance. Anyway, the "Arabic dance" about which you speak, better known as "belly dancing" actually has obscure origins--no one actually knows where it comes from. HOWEVER one thing is for sure: Flamenco existed in Spain BEFORE the gypsies arrived. The gypsies added their flavor later on.

[mmedefarge]

@ZoraidaAllat Show me an Arabic dance that looks anything like flamenco. Where's the percussive footwork anywhere in Arabic dance? Flamenco wasn't recognized as a dance form until the 18th century. Show me in a valid history book where flamenco dance was shown to be as such prior to the arrival of the Gypsies. The arm & hand movements of modern Kathak were influenced by Persian dance but the not the footwork which are nothing alike at all.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@mmedefarge Again, you say "Arabic dance" as if there is only one Arabic dance--do your own research! Just because Zambra Mora (alternate name for Flamenco meaning "Moorish Party") wasn't called "Flamenco" until the 18th century doesn't mean the dance didn't exist until then! The N. African and Mid-Eastern Moors ruled Spain for several hundred years BEFORE the arrival of the gypsies. The Moors and Jews mixed styles with the native Europeans, creating the origins of what we now call Flamenco.

[mmedefarge]

@ZoraidaAllat The fact that it is even called "Zambra Mora" distinguishes it from pure flamenco. it's a fusion dance with flamenco with the emphasis on it's N. African elements. Of course flamenco existed before the 18th century but there is no written history about this essentially Gypsy dance. The fact that flamenco still looks nothing like Arabic dance & still resembles Kathak shows it's true origins.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@mmedefarge Flamenco is fusion! Have you ever seen Jewish folk dances? Have you ever seen European folk dances? Have you ever seen North African or Middle Eastern folk dances aside from "belly dancing?" All these varieties existed in Spain well before the Gypsies arrived there. All these forms contributed to the creation of "Flamenco" long before the gypsies arrived in Spain. No wonder Flamenco doesn't look like your limited, ignorant view of "Arabic dance."

[mmedefarge]

@ZoraidaAllat Yes, I've seen European folk dancing, middle-eastern & eastern European Jewish folk dancing, N. African & Middle Eastern dancing (most of which is a variant of belly dancing) & none of them look like flamenco. Zambra Mora is a fusion of flamenco & N. African dance which is why it is so named. You still offer no proof of your claims just a lot of exclamations combined with insults but with no specific proof. Simply because you say so is not proof, m'dear

[ZoraidaAllat]

@mmedefarge You say most Mid-Eastern and N. African folk dances are a variant of belly dancing--that is total BS! Houara, for one, is an indigenous dance found in Morocco that is heavy on complex/fast footwork, jumps, turns, claps/hand work and attitude that is very similar to Flamenco. The Moors (Muslim MOROCCANS/Berbers/Arabs/Africa­ns/etc.) ruled Spain for 700+ years before the arrival of the Gypsies. Gypsies are the latest contributors to what we know as Flamenco+why we associate it with them

[polychronio]

@mmedefarge flamenco is from latin people not north africans....north africans were latin before also....stop claiming latin as yours arabs.... that's bull shit....

[mmedefarge]

@polychronio Eh? I never said that. I said that flamenco had more in common with the N. INDIAN Kathak dance (from the N. INDIAN Gypsies who migrated to Spain) than it has with Arabic dance.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@mmedefarge I will get you several history books and my Romani GYPSY dance scholar and teacher. The Mid-Eastern and North African Moors were ruling Spain for centuries before the arrival of the gypsies. Moors melded their styles with the Europeans and Jews there--this isn't rocket science.The origins of Flamenco existed in Spain before the Gypsies got to Spain. Maybe the Moors were influenced by Gypsies in their countries of origin but the dance of Spain wasn't created by the Spanish Gypsies.

[mmedefarge]

@ZoraidaAllat  Still waiting for the "several history books" worth of proof. "Rocket science", indeed. Meh.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@mmedefarge Actually, I am going to compile a list of good books and articles on the subject. Funny, that you don't bother to present any proof for your claim. Something doesn't have to "look like" something else to be related--how does that prove your point in any way? The bottom line is that the Europeans, Sephardic Jews, and Moors living in Spain fused styles to create the origins of Flamenco before the Gypsies arrived in Spain. The Gypsies added their own flavor later on.

[ZoraidaAllat]

@redfenderjazz Oh and P.S... Kathak is heavily influenced by Persian dance unlike other traditional Indian dances.

[mmedefarge]

@ZoraidaAllat Persian dance influenced the already ancient temple dance of Kathak especially in the arm & hand movements as Kathak became more secular but the intricate & percussive footwork of Kathak is nothing like the lighter than air, often toe dancing of Persian dance.

[mmedefarge]

Flamenco seems to me to have very little in common with belly dancing & oh so very much in common with Indian dancing. I think that even Helen Keller could tell that.

[XTINAsianlatinA]

Absolutely wonderful!