John Piper - Wealth is Almost Always a Curse, Not a Blessing

[inheritthepromises]

Poverty is not a blessing. poverty is not the answer to poverty. faith is the answer to poverty.

Dr. Piper advocates rejecting all camels because he can't get one through the eye of a needle.

Faith gets the camel through the eye of a needle.

Lazarus did not go to heaven because he was poor.

Lazarus should have given money to those poorer than himself. The rich man did not go to hell becuase he was rich but because he didn't have faith.

Creflo Dollar is spiritual.

[iwhitt567]

@timshapiro Need more people like you on occasion to remind the world of logic.

[iwhitt567]

It's like I'm watching a man have a seizure while he poorly interprets the Bible.

[vicktourthemonster]

The hole lol was obviously called the eye of a needle. I forgot to enter that information in the last comment.

[vicktourthemonster]

Um my grandmother told me in the old days they use to fit camels through a small whole and they had to slick it with oil because it was very difficult sometimes to get the camel through. So maybe that's what Jesus was talking about. Now I'm not positive of this because I tried to find it on the Internet if that was true but I have not. So if anyone one would care to join in on the search please do. Then if you would reply to me.

[iwhitt567]

@vicktourthemonster Snopes confirmed it, camels fit through needles with oil. So rich men just have to bathe in oils to get into heaven.

[dave1122drum]

Wealthy is bad? I am amazed at how much money the christian church has in general. I am convinced that if the christian church(all denominations) sold there possessions of real estate and gave it to the poor it would just about end world poverty. The bible instructs to tithe to the church. Do you know how wealthy the church is from this? Billions. Why would god need currency when there is love? David, solomon, adam and eve, job, matthew and luke were all filthy rich.

[frangipani1974]

dave1122drum, do you have a guilty conscience?

[dave1122drum]

do i have a guilty conscious? no. how could i? i am poor. You are ignorant. You seem to not know much about your position judging by the length of your response. I think you think my comment was right on.

[fiveeagles]

Only 2percent of believers believing in tithing.

Money shows where a man's heart is. Does he love God or does he love mammon.

[dave1122drum]

that is great news. Regardless what the bible says god in general never needs money what so ever. It is fantastic that believers see the greed of the church demanding tithing and not responding. They have become smarter. I bet most of those believers give(tithe) to causes god cares most about like breast cancer and aids research. not money to lazy pastors and mortgages for dusty church buildings god never intended in scripture. If the whole church gave up there real estate they could cure alot

[dave1122drum]

This is foolish of piper. He does not see both sides. Yes wealthy CAN be bad but poverty can be just as bad plunging many into intercity gangs and drugs as means of support. Poverty people in my experience have the worst case of ENVY. This is where I think piper comes from. We are all jealous of celebrities. Though I am sure PIPER himself is wealthy. Look at his christian CELEBRITY status. He is friends with RC SPROUL who has golf memberships in florida. That is not cheap.

[KentucKorean]

its called making a point. stating the underlining message.

[SirPlorkenblog]

Why are so many Christians glorifying poverty now?

I understand the problems with the prosperity gospel..but it's like it's a ditch on one side of the road, and instead of standing ON the road, Mr. Piper jumped into the ditch on the other side of the road...that is equally ridiculous, but on the opposite side of the road.

[KentucKorean]

because joel osteen is making a false image of what wealth means to the Christian faith. there is a need to set things straight. its infuriating because its common knowledge.

[SirPlorkenblog]

But they're going overboard just like 'ol Joelly..just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

[KentucKorean]

theres nothing wrong with truth. we are to judges of righteousness. Joel's take, is that of the pseudo christian, where it is "God i'll worship you as long as you give me this, or that." no different than a golddigger.

[SolideoGloriafella]

SirPlorkenblog,

Christians dont glorify poverty just because they dont glorify wealth.

The Bible teaches contentment. (1Tim 6). Mr. Piper has not jumped to the other extreme.

Proverbs 30:9-9

Keep falsehood and lies far from me;

give me neither poverty nor riches,

but give me only my daily bread. 9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD ?'

Or I may become poor and steal,

and so dishonor the name of my God.

[dkooj]

How we view money is a life and death issue... What we worship in the deepest part of our hearts will make an eternal difference... That is something to get "all melodramatic" about!

[cross805]

Hey Tim, is the cross of Christ foolishness to you bro??

[SoldierofChrist87]

He isnt saved.

[soopahsoopah]

Exactly - who wants to listen to a boring preacher? Church is boring enough already ;)

[soopahsnoopah]

Indeed, clergy and performance have long had a rich association with the other

[gbologa]

Excellent preaching.

[Reformchick]

This isn't a "performance." Pastor Piper is one of the most genuine men of God out there.

[adambomb312]

Who else is tired of being told you have to live a miserable impoversihed life to be pleasing to God by hypocrites who are very much well off?

Now, I don't support the "health and wealth" gospel at all, I know from experience that being a Christian isn't easy at all. Being a Christian is not about me and what I can get, but this form of guilt trip and manipulation is hypocrisy plain and simple.

[derran15]

I never heard him say you HAVE to live that kind of life. Tis better to give than receive.

[psk6565]

It is biblical and it should be joy to hear.

[M4ck]

Nice job of putting words in his mouth.. He is merely talking of the dangers the Bible tells about having riches.

Notice how he uses"hordes for yourself" he is talking about a wealthy person who refuses to give, and ends up worshiping money not God who gave him the money.

[moishie666]

God tested Job by stripping him of his wealth. Job remained faithful and his wealth was returned many times over.

Poverty Gospel vs. Prosperity Gospel, now that's a real hard choice.

Parents have a duty to provide for their families. To train their children to be productive in the world. Charity is fine, but not when it requires guilt-mongering. Piper doesn't exactly looked starved. Well-dressed and well-fed he encourages others to embrace poverty and failure.

[dirtysocks007]

biased answer Mr. 666.

[psk6565]

Where does he say to force yourself into poverty!? He is simply talking about the desire to be rich!

[adambomb312]

Amen. Speak the truth, Christian. You will see that like Piper, most other Calvinists are likewise guiltmongerers and hypocrites.

One correction though, Piper's not just "encouraging" Christians to be impoverished and failures. He's saying we MUST be impoverished and failures in life to be pleasing to God and he's a hypocrite for it because as we can see, Piper is very wealthy and very sucessful.

[Reformchick]

Amen.

[jmlouie]

Deuteronomy 8:17-18

Beware lest you say in your heart, My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth. You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

Here is where the sin takes place, when we attribute our wealth to ourselves and not God. If God does it, its a blessing, but people have not relied on Gods power to gain wealth, thus the curse.

[jmlouie]

Revelation 5:12

saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!

Here we see wealth is something to be given to Jesus, thus it cant be a curse.

[jmlouie]

Piper should focus on the SELFISH DESIRE as the CURSE. Wealth itself is clearly a good attribute.

Psalm 112:1-3

Praise the Lord! Blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who greatly delights in his commandments! His offspring will be mighty in the land; the generation of the upright will be blessed. Wealth and riches are in his house, and his righteousness endures forever.

Wealth here is show to be from God.

[CallCentre3294]

kdswagg:

"you can have God's favor and not have any money. Favor is better than money, cause favor can get you money"

You seem to want God's favour in order to get you money, so that money is the ultimate end.

Money is not of greater value than the favour of the King of the universe. And I remind you: "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil".

If God took away your money, would you still worship him? If not, it may suggest you're not loving God with all your heart and soul.

[CallCentre3294]

kdswagg:

"Christ said that we would lay hands on the sick and the sick WILL recover!" - Where? I know Jesus did that, and the disciples and the 72, but he doesn't tell us we can lay hands on the sick and they WILL recover.

Maybe you're thinking of Mark 16:18, which is not part of the inspired word of God as far as I'm aware. "The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20" in the NIV and other modern versions. Check the Wiki article on Mark 16 too.

[kingdomswagg7]

Well i don't know about you, but i'm always laying hands on the sick, and watching them recover!

[mrsrachealbaker]

Bullshit! My parents are millionaires and we have a dodge magnum lol. its not a curse trust me. its all in the person. we don't buy shit.

[jamiejame911]

So you guys horde it.. not spend it?

[drollins86]

lol

[Slaught1004]

HE IS so passionate

about teaching the world about

CHRIST...

AMEN!!!

[CallCentre3294]

[read from the bottom post up]

...you eat of it you will surely die". Did Adam and Eve die when they ate it? Not physically, but spiritually they did. In the same way, Jesus brings us spiritual healing - i.e. reconciliation with God - rather than physical healing (although physical healing will come in heaven).

2 Corinthians 1:4 says God will comfort us in our troubles, not that he will remove all troubles.

Read the Bible in its entirety; you'll realise prosperity teaching is false teaching.

[kingdomswagg7]

OMG, your only 20yrs old!? HA HA HA! You're just a kid! You probably been saved for about 2 years and think that you have the keys to the KINGDOM!(lol)Keep living.

[masterowa]

See, he is a Christian about 2 years and he understands more of the Bible than veterans such as you. Rather amazing isn't it?

[kingdomswagg7]

get out of town. If you say that we as believers are not promised physical healing through Christ, you have a lot to learn! Christ said that we would lay hands on the sick and the sick WILL recover! He is only repeating some junk he heard john piper, martin luther, or paul washer said!

[masterowa]

I am saying what the author of the first post is saying. That the physical health is not guaranteed (in the way spiritual healing, changing of the heart, love towards, persecution/suffering God is) along with being born again. It happens and it is more than possible. But it is not (in the same way as wealth) an evidence of God's favour.

Go and tell Job or Paul that the physical health and wealth are certain parts of the package.

[kingdomswagg7]

If physical health is not promised, why did Christ say that one of the signs that would follow us that believed was that we would lay hands on the sick and the sick would recover. Also, you can have God's favor and not have any money. Favor is better than money, cause favor can get you money.

[masterowa]

uhm, apparently it didn't add my last comment.

I do not deny the gift of healing. I do not say God doesn't grand pleas. I am saying: Why aren't you in a hospital checking if you are a believer?

Why there were sick people (who were not healed) in the times of the apostles?

Favour brings money? Compare lives of Jacob (crushed throughout his life) and Esau (rich one and yet not favoured). Rebuke or sickness can be signs of God's favour. Anything that conforms us to the image of Christ.

[kingdomswagg7]

Not talking about the gift of healing, im talking about the promise to recieve what comes with the package of salvation according to Isaiah 53 by his stripes we are healed! Rebuke and sickness is a sign that you are off in your believing! Please don't even respond go and pray and read the word. Have you recieved the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit yet?

[masterowa]

yes, I have.

And most people would say Isaiah 53 speaks on spiritual healing.

Why then Christians described in the Bible were sick? Were they unsaved? What about Job? He got afflicted because God tested the most faithful of his servants.

You may say we listen to Paul Washer and John Piper, but you listen to what your tradition tells you without thinking how the rule would apply to those strongly established believers described in the Scriptures.

[masterowa]

+ I understand your zeal for protecting God's ability to heal and I agree most people underestimate it. I myself got healed when I was baptised with the HS, nevertheless only partly and some things remained for a time (to remind me of who I was)

It is all about conforming us to the image of Christ - and sicknesses can be a great tool in it.

[kingdomswagg7]

Do you speak with other tongues?

[masterowa]

Why would you ask about it?

[CallCentre3294]

You say Isaiah 53:5 means there is health through Christ. There is spiritual healing, for sure. And in heaven/when Jesus returns, then there will be no more sickness, pain or suffering (Revelation 21:4). But on earth today there is not guaranteed physical healing for all Christians. The verse, in context, is about sins. Compare it to Isaiah 6:10, 33:24 and 57:14-21. Also note that when God said in Genesis 2:17 "you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when...

cont.

[kingdomswagg7]

Well first of all, THROUGH CHRIST, there is money(Matthew 6:33,Luke 6:38,Romans 8:32, Philippians 4:19, ,health(Isaiah 53:5), AND comfort!( John 14:19, 2Corinthians 1:4, 7:6)

You can't separate Christ from Provision!

[CallCentre3294]

Through Christ there is forgiveness of sins, not money. Matt 6:33 is about food, drink, and clothes. We don't need to worry about starving, going thirsty, or being naked. These are basic necessities, not unlimited money. On Luke 6:38, see this video: "Using Luke 6:38 to Preach Mammonism". On Romans 8:32, here's one interpretation "How broad is the scope of 'all things' that God bestows on us? Certainly Paul's focus is on those things necessary for our salvation; but, as with 'the good'...

cont.

[CallCentre3294]

...in v.28, we should not restrict the meaning to salvation as such but include all those blessings - spiritual and material - that we require on the path toward that final salvation." Notice in particular the last phrase. Philippians 4:19 says "God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus". Firstly, NEEDS not GREEDS. Secondly, according to God's glorious riches in Christ Jesus. Our greatest need was to be reconciled to God, which Jesus achieved for us.

cont.

[kc7fys]

Usually I completely disagree with Dr. Piper. In this case he is using his exceptional talent as an orator to good ends. Thank you John. This is a peacemaking message.

[fruitofspirit]

In this case, I'm blessed! Not only do I have nothing...I into negative digits!

:)

[Stereolabdream]

Thank you thank you thank you.

This evil of Hinn,Dollar,Copeland,White and their "wannabes" is spreading into the UK, along with the other nonsenses/evils of the "prophetics" like Patricia King.

Thank Goodness there are, despite the way it sometimes appears to outsiders...strong leaders who will fight against it passionately,through the Gospels true teaching, like John Piper. Let's all do what we can to spread true Christianity.

[ilikezappa]

Well , I quite like having lots of money. It blesses me with not having to work very hard or live near shitty poor people. Praise the Lord ! ( who is The guitarist Brian Setzer )

[Stereolabdream]

It must have made you feel really good writing that, ilikezappa? No, a rather shallow feeling, perhaps?

All things must pass-right? Wealth does, pride does too.

[ilikezappa]

True , you can`t take it with you and I guess your pride goes when you start peeing yourself and forgetting where you are. At least ,when you are old,if you can afford Naughty Nurse and big Cigars ,you are doing better than most people. Remember , only Jesus saves ! The rest of us spend it on cars and women.

[Stereolabdream]

Believe this, anyway...

It will take infinitely more than you can deliver to offend me, shock me or anger me...

And, frankly, ilikezappa, much better than that to make me laugh.

 I hope you find what you are looking for...especially if it is more original gag material... All the best.

[kingdomswagg7]

You need to follow Christ and not John Piper!

[Darrielm]

@Stereolabdream Creflo is not a prosperity preacher.. Creflo teaches that Obedience and seeking God only brings prosperity.. Creflo teaches about spiritual prosperity(spiritual growth) you have to listen to his sermons he is not a prosperity preacher trust me my Brother

[bnbvideo]

You have a good point brother. That's why God wants to get our attention through this recession

[kc7fys]

The image of a God who hurts people to get their attention, although very Biblical--is one I hope is incorrect. Best regards.

[mcguck]

Correction or discipline is not hurting someone, it may feel like it hurts at the time. In the end though when looking back you realize it was for our own good.

[Patternpop]

AMEN!

[buckwilliee]

this is truth so called 'christians' do not want to hear, especially in a prosperous America.

[EZEKIEL3622]

Rich in grace beats dollars any day! It's mans "nature" to have more 'faith' in money for peace joy & happiness, than Christ and His perfect finished work on the cross, there you find TRUE peace & joy. "Come, everyone who thirsts, to the waters! Come, he who has no money, buy, and eat! Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price." -Isaiah 55:1-

[vico100]

Love it! amazing truth!

[kuxstall]

This was a very good message, i would recommend this to anyone i know

[DigitalCodex]

Finally, someone says it as it is.

[BLESSEDone333]

very good message