Rep. De La Garza on supply and demand, subsidies and price supports

[powellbrandon90]

interesting video

[jasonbudd06]

If supply of a crop does not affect price, then the Supreme Court's application of the Commerce Clause to allow Congress to control supply of crops is likewise incorrect. The Congressman is arguing, unwittingly, that the program is unconstitutional.

[janhelfeld]

@jasonbudd06 interesting point.

[rebby11]

"This is very complex"

Boy I couldn't agree more. You've tied yourself in so many intellectual knots I don't know how to make sense of what your saying. What district did you come from? Mars?

[benjamindees]

@SSgtParmer Yes, externalities should be internalized. But the externalities are not created by the farmers.

[TreachMarkets]

"This isn't a supply and demand operation." I think we've stumbled upon a problem...

[taradfong]

It's just very complicated. Trust him.

Amazing the lengths people will go so that they don't have to even entertain a view they oppose, logic be damned. He would deny that 1 + 1 = 2 if it meant casting the slightest aspersion on subsidies.

[rumco]

@taradfong Boohoo, complicated my arse. They don't grow plants, they get paid with money stolen from others (consumers). Just liked during 30's under Hoover.

[taradfong]

I agree! I was being sarcastic!

[rumco]

@taradfong and I was too outraged by his statist position ! :)

[n66178]

SUPPLY CREATES DEMAND!!!!!!

[AHBritton]

@n66178 What? That is supply side silliness. If I create a lot of turds it doesn't make a bigger market for turds.

[n66178]

@AHBritton I guess I assumed it was understood that I was talking about increasing the supply of things that are IN DEMAND. In other words, in economics you have to talk about THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANT. Maybe if you have magical turds that grow pot plants instantly or something (because people want pot you see and if you increase the supply...that's what I meant, maybe I should have phrased it differently).

[AHBritton]

@n66178 Ok, I think I understand you. I thought you were literally saying that "supply creates demand" which I think is silly. If anything it is the opposite, if the demand is enough (even if there are subsidies to leave fields fallow) people will produce because there is more money in it.

Last I checked they don't grow pot plants... then again its been a while since I have shit in the woods.

[AHBritton]

I have mixed feeling about Jan. He definitely brings up things that need to be debated more... I don't feel he quite embodies the Socratic ideal he claims to. I think he might get into some better discussions if he went about things differently.

[n66178]

man, we really need some people in office that aren't just friggin lawyers, a bunch of non-questioning procedural robots all of them

[Thereminator101]

Its Not necessarily supply and demand because its STEALING YOU IDIOT! Furthermore,if we didnt supplement agriculture,Central and South America would have a better entry-level economy and retain more of their citizens.

[rockhuddy]

"for some degree of control"

that's what it's all about

[radicalveg]

Rep. De La Garza (who seems like a nice fellow) used the term "not necessarily" in almost every one of his responses. I would have asked him if the Conservation Reduction Program

"necessarily" results in its intended goals.

[independence4wales]

This politician doesn't understand the US agricultural policy that he is talking about

[benjamindees]

Jan, I enjoy 99% of your interviews but this one is extremely weak. You spent ten minutes trying to understand why the gov't subsidizes crop rotation and planting cover crops (green manure). The reasons are:

1) Green fertilizers reduce chemical fertilizer usage, oil imports, the trade deficit, and the costly wars that go along with those.

2) Crop rotation reduces pest infestations and soil depletion and results in a more secure food supply.

Surely you aren't against sustainable agriculture?

[janhelfeld]

I am against forcing citizens to pay farmers to farm i.e, against farm subsidies. Also, I believe that if you reduce supply prices go up. Do you agree with the law of supply and demand or do you agree with the Congressman?

[benjamindees]

Jan, I agree with the law of supply and demand. I am also against farm subsidies, in theory. But I believe a free market produces certain negative externalities, and that the purpose of government is to regulate those to the effect that they infringe on the rights of third parties.

This is not really an issue of subsidies, rather of policing and governing population growth. Instead of looking at the effects of this program on food supply, look at it's effects on food demand. cont...

[benjamindees]

s/effect /extent /

[janhelfeld]

you are a good candidate for a radio interview.

[benjamindees]

In a free market without regulation of population growth, there is a positive feedback between reproduction and food production, creating incentive for farmers to overproduce beyond the natural limits of technology and the environment. This results in population booms, and busts. Demand shocks in the food supply lead to riots, warfare, an increase in reproduction, and future demand shocks. cont..

[benjamindees]

With a stable food supply, however, children are more likely to survive into adulthood and reproduce. As a result, parents voluntarily choose to have fewer children, reducing food demand over time. Stable population growth reduces resource competition, increases living standards over time, creates an environment in which free trade can flourish, and prevents the need for policing and more heavy-handed population controls. cont..

[benjamindees]

I have more to say on this, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Suffice it to say, there is a difference between "paying farmers to farm" and paying farmers not to farm. If Washington instead returned to requiring citizens to own property instead of more underhanded governing methods such as agricultural market manipulation, supply would likely be lower and food prices higher than they are today.

And it's not that that is a bad thing, either.

[independence4wales]

Surely you aren't suggesting the government knows more about farming than farmers?

[benjamindees]

I'm suggesting that the government has an interest in a stable food supply and that farmers do not.

[independence4wales]

OK point taken, but farmers do not want to produce a crop of which there is a glut leading them to getting a low price for their produce. I would suggest the solution is for the farmer to be better informed with regards to what the market price for different crops will be in the future rather than the market being manipulated by the government. This way the farmer can choose the crop which he believes will give him the best return and in turn contribute to more balanced crop production.

[posha666]

If crop rotation is good to reduce pests or soil depletion, and it may be, then why wouldn't a farmer do that? There's no advantage to "ruining" the farm.

Underlying both arguments is this idea that the farmer doesn't know what's good for him; or the farmer is completely short sighted and will destroy his own soil for some reason and has no care for the future of his own soil or his own farm.

[horvay]

It's the usual anti-principle mentality. These people can't even be in their jobs and have good principles, it would destroy their psych.

There ARE many factors that play into this issue, but it wouldn't be bad. As prices fall, farms will just have to innovate and merge. The result of this would be more production and cheaper food.

There is no right to not having to change. The farmers have no right to be propped up by the government. They will have to improve, or get out of the way.

[czargwar]

OMFG why do we have such idiots elected? ? ?

[carl980]

This country is screwed big time. Silver is still cheap!

[tesla921]

I would like to get paid for not buying a farm and therefore not growing the specific crops that you get paid not to grow.

Hey, there's a lot of money to be "earned" here.

[tesla921]

Another complete boob elected by Boobus Americanus.

[ndes0532]

Why can't Jan admit to himself that this dear politician is just obviously way smarter than any of us and we should leave everything to him. He said it's more complicated. He must be knowing what he's talking about.

[davidpark68]

I like Jan but I have to agree with this politician (to a degree), although he does a crappy job at explaining himself. there is an expense to farming so there's a min. price for a bushel of corn. if the supply is so much that prices fall below the min. then the next year the farmer won't grow corn rather then take a loss.two things to remember, farm goods have expiration dates unlike most other consumer goods, you cant store it till prices go up. this is a necessity, we don't want a shortage.

[davidpark68]

on the other hand those farmers could be growing hemp which could be a valuable resource with high (pun intended) demand

[1schwererziehbar1]

that's a nice rep. he's very patient.

[Derukugi2]

I like jan helfeld, but in this case, he keeps hammering an extremely simplistic point. Which the congressman addressed and wants to get past... but like a retard, jan keeps hammering the simplistic formula.... which nobody denied.

Sorry, this one is an own-goal. Jan can do better than this.

[BRYAN351]

Jan, you should create the "Most Retarded Politician" award, have a TV ceremony just like the Academy Awards, choose nominees, and then announce a winner.

I can totally see this guy walking up to the stage, all smiles, accepting his award, and thanking the ignorant voters for making it all possible.

[dwayne0t]

Talking with this con-gressman is like trying to push a car up a hill with a rope

[jwsphilippinesgold]

Jan, keep up the good work

[mindtriplx]

who elects these bobos?

[deadman12078]

We do. :D

[soundmoneyfan]

it is so funny to hear a central planner trying to explain how their boneheaded ideas work on the ground level. haha

[jsyc07]

That last question was the knock out blow. Good one.

[Nielsio]

I wouldn't trust this guy with a penny. That's probably why he works in the public sector.

[Nickelodeon2002]

Another insane "leader"....I used to be disturbed by the exposure of these people by Jan- now I've settled into the reality of our leaders being completely absent of logic, reason, classical education, etc.

I'm going to do what I need to do to protect myself from their incompetence. That might be stocking needed commodities or simply moving out of the US...but it really doesn't matter anymore as the lunatics are running the asylum.

[oaky132x]

Common sense "doesn't nessesarily" have anything to do with his point

[sony8877]

jan dominates with logic again