Direct PCB printer in action

[shimmybmw]

Hello. Can you tell me the temperature that heats the plate before and after printing. And time of cooking.

[hoarp001]

This just normal printer ink or do you have to load the cartridge with etch resist or something?

[epineh]

@hoarp001 This is the standard ink for that printer, a pigment based ink, other printers use dye based ink that won't work for a resist.

[douro20]

The reason why this works aa well as it does is Epson's unique floating feed, which can feed any size of media and automatically adjusts the printhead to compensate.

[dumyyyyyy]

Y prefer the transfer toner method with a laser printer and photo paper.Same good quality results!

[ChrisBit692002]

This shit is sick and the music fits the modified printer set up.. ROCK ON!

[epineh]

@ChrisBit692002  :]

[aeroductyl003]

Since Epson C87 was not already existing here in the Phils., what other printer can we use as an alternative for C87?

[epineh]

@aeroductyl003 Not too sure, the printer needs to use a pigment based ink, as the dye based inks will wash off in the etch, I have heard of people using later model Epson's that need little modification to use, but not too sure of any details.

[shinaley]

Asian sugar babies # lushfmlk.info#

[hongyi444]

wow...without photoresist, mask, light exposure, and it works better...totally mind blowing..

[epineh]

To be honest I had other music from a royalty free music site that was mostly unoffensive but it turns out they decided to start charging and lodged the music as copyrighted, so I just audio swapped via youtube, and figured that most PC's these days have volume control if someone didn't like the new track.

[Hardwyre]

At 4:13, you can see what looks like some pretty serious pitting.. is that just fuzz left over from wiping it off?

[epineh]

@Hardwyre Well spotted, it is actually bits of the paper cloth I used to wipe the board dry, I only noticed it well after the vid was done and uploaded so I ran with it :)

[zach2408dk]

fine copper powder directly in the catridge without anything should be a crack 800DPI shot.

[sqftsteve]

Couldn't even make it past the first five seconds. What horrible crap 'music'.

[Hardwyre]

@sqftsteve

I'd love to hear what you consider "music".

[hydrolisk1792]

Wow, this is freaking awsome and I'm going to do this :)

[adisharr]

Nicely done - is it difficult to do 2 sided boards with this method?

[epineh]

@adisharr yeah, I tried a few times, it was always a bit out of alignment, the only way I got it to work was to print single sided top and bottom onto half thickness boards and glue them together.

[adisharr]

@epineh That's an interesting solution - thanks for the info.

[epineh]

@adisharr Not a problem :]

[chickenpoper]

could i use a regular copper sheet for the board..if not where could i get the copper sheet you used in this vid. plus could i re-use the etchant solution many times?like if i used some of the solution for a pcb could i reuse it, and reuse it many times?

[epineh]

You need to use a copper clad fibreglass board, most decent electronics type shops will stock this, the etchant can be re-used, it goes a bit stale after a while and a few uses, I only use a small amount at a time, just enough to swish around in a small plastic container and just cover the PCB.

[chickenpoper]

k thx i found a store in brigde port in connecticut that sells huge boards of the copper clad

[vjstudio]

its like a mini etching factory

[Mushketer888]

what means cook until golden brown? :|

in oven or microwave?for what?

[epineh]

Lol it is just a saying, basically the print is cured by a little heat after printing, otherwise the ink does not go hard and will wash off during etching :)

[necromx]

It's a toaster oven...really metal in a microwave dude...Should you even be trying this lol

[epineh]

Erm, yeah it is a toaster oven...not a microwave...good old fashioned heating elements :)

[30JULIO1950]

Muy ingenioso, felicitaciones. Very clever, congratulations

[reinoso22]

Toner transfer method is better, faster and easier.

[Elamin008]

the best homemade method I ever seen in my live (5 stars)

[epineh]

:-D

[fronkenpoop]

Fascinating method. Why red / Magenta, and what does the bake do to the ink (other than the obvious that it somehow becomes etch resistant)? That's an excellent looking etch- great job. Thanks for the video.

[epineh]

Hi, the magenta is supposed to be the best color to act as a resist, though on my setup it seems to be made up of all the color's anyway.

The baking cures the ink, otherwise it just sits on the copper and remains wet, even hours after printing.

Cheers.

[fronkenpoop]

That's great Thanks for taking the time to explain. Since I've seen Youtubers customising CD trays on the Epson R200 (and derivatives) in order to print small PCBs. They are constrained to the size of a CD however. As for me, I'm using the laser toner transfer method. I have had mixed results- even with the so called "proper" PCB transfer film. Lots of patience and trial and error is required!

Regards.

[epineh]

No probs :)

I suppose no method is perfect, this works well for my needs, but did take some fine tuning. I guess the easiest way is to just pay a board house to make them...but where is the fun in that ! :D

[gameover2005]

Hi, I have a question for you.

I recently modified an epson stylus color 670 so that it would accept the copper board but no matter what I can't make it to print properly, the ink just gets diffused.

I've tried heating / color changing / sanding / acetone and more but the ink just keeps "melting"..

I think my problem is the ink that this cartridges use..

What kind of ink are you uysing?

Is there any "permanent ink" (as in the permanent sharpies) available to prevent this?

Thanks in advance!

[epineh]

Hey, I use the standard Durabrite inks that come with the printer, others use MISPRO inks but I have found the standard ink works fine.

When I have had smudged prints it is usually the surface not being clean enough, or hot enough, try "scratching" the surface a little with a green kitchen scourer (lightly) and metho, then wipe the surface with a clean cloth and a little acetone, be careful not to touch the copper surface once it is clean.

[epineh]

Also the PCB has to be hot enough that you can barely pick it up without gloves.

Good Luck !

[cvf4]

buenisimo metodo

[epineh]

Thanks (I think :)

[nanodocl]

How do you hack the printer???

[epineh]

Best bet is to Google direct PCB printing and get ready for some serious reading :)

[nanodocl]

Tahnks,I will do that Do you remember any source in particular??

[epineh]

I can't link the URL here (Youtube won't let me) but the techref . massmind site has what you need. There are a few pages on the site, you may have to dig a little.

Otherwise I have a build log on CNCZone but you will have to register (free) the thread got VERY long but most of what I did is on the first few pages.

Good Luck !

[kiashee]

nice video...!

i was sharing this with my friends when a chemist nerdy commented about the "...favorite acid". Ferric Chloride and Cupric Chloride are not acids... those are salt!!! :D

[epineh]

Ha, that is funny...nerdy but funny :)

[pudumula]

is this possible with any colour printer

[epineh]

The printer needs to use pigment based ink, not dye based, and you need to be able to modify the paper feed mechanism to accept a flat sheet of copper clad fibreglass, the Epson's seem to be the easiest for this.

[epineh]

Yup the original Durabrite inks, I was going to use MISPRO but didnt need to.

[Syndicated4u]

what PCB software did you use?

[epineh]

Eagle layout editor...free version :>

[tarmogr]

Did you use an original Epson ink? I have heard that only MISPRO is suitable for this.

[webcity]

Can anyone please tell me what music is that?

I can't take it out of my head!

[epineh]

Sorry, missed ur question...song is called Broken Days, it is a free music download from freeplaymusic {dot} com

:~]

[katananja]

I use the same products to make a silk screen, but instead of a screen i use a PCB Board. Is very easy to make two side PCB with great precision.

[epineh]

I tried a few double sided boards and it was just too difficult to get the alignment spot on, it would always drift about 1mm which isn't any good, so I stuck to single sided. If anybody gets it to work I am all ears =)

[xxwzaebd]

Does it also work with dual sided PCBs?

[ClaudioArrau]

I guess yes. You'll have to "cook" the pcb ofcource before changing side

[xxwzaebd]

I see. But I will still have to figure out how to process the througholes without using throughole pins.

[ClaudioArrau]

I am not sure what is your problem. What is that you dont know? Can you explain better?

[xxwzaebd]

After printing the PCB and etching, how do I make the throughholes without using throughhole pins?

[ClaudioArrau]

So you mean how to connect the 2 sides? Use a single core wire and solder it from both sides. You will need to hold it while soldering it, because the heat will melt the solder at the othe side. Hold it or bend it so it wont move during soldering process.

[xxwzaebd]

Actually I did something like this with small test boards but this time such a solution won't work.I think I have to order the PCBs this time and experiment with plating solutions afterwards.

[jamesmcmlxii]

I did something like that with a Lexmark 25.

I just got rid of the plastic housing and screwed it to a plexiglass base and made a plexiglass feed in tray glueing the plexi together with super glue. removed the 2 inner paper feed rollers and tape the blank pcb to card stock and print it with black ink. pre etch the pcb for a min or the ink will bead up on it. after printing dust with toner and blow off excess and heat with heat gun. works good.

[AlienRelics]

So you are saying that Lexmark black ink works as an acid resist? But you dust it with toner before hitting it with a heat gun?

That would be great news, because of the simplicity of a Lexmark printer as compared to an Epson.

I know that the black ink in HP and Canon are pigmented (colors are dye), I think Lexmark is the same.

[jamesmcmlxii]

the lexmark black ink is pigmented but does not resist etching fluid very well at all it just binds the toner in place untill you heat the toner with the heat gun, the toner is a good etchant resist. i also tried powder coat paint instead of toner but it's not very resistant to the etchant.

[AlienRelics]

But that's still very cool, you've found a way to use an otherwise unsuitable ink.

I'd love to see you join the Inkjet_PCB_Construction or the Homebrew_PCBs Yahoogroups and share this and how well it works.

There is a possibility that, since the Lexmark black is pigmented, that you might be able to use the pigmented magenta meant for Epsons in the Lexmark black head.

[First2ner]

laser printer method still looks easyer and faster, but nice job, very good results!

[epineh]

I put the whole process with pictures on CNCZone, otherwise try the Yahoo Homebrew PCB group, or Google direct inkjet pcb and you should get some ideas :)

[briphillips29]

nice job on the printer .

how did you modify the printer ? can you post a video on that too ?

[epineh]

The board needs to be preheated for the ink to print nicely, if it is too cold the print ends up all smudged.

Magenta ink is the best resist, though I print a red colour that is a mix of all 4 colour's and it works fine.

[eadthem]

why did you decide to preheat the board to stop ink spread/splatter?

what is the advantage to using only magenta?

[epineh]

Cheers, I have been thinking of posting a vid of the printer for a while, just never got round to doing it. The PCB I was printing in the vid is actually the H Bridge used in the H Bridge test video I posted recently, just some more usless trivia for ya >8)

Yeah the song does get stuck into your head, welcome to my world :)

[ryobiguy]

This is the legendary hacked printer from CNCZone. Nice to see it in action.

BTW, nice riffy tune by the way, I think it's stuck in my head now!

[incubus1062]

Another work around is to print the layout using a laser printer and feed the same sheet through the printer two or three times and use a hot iron to transfer the image to the pcb.