It seems the Catholics in here have forgotten who it is that is Does a Great Work on the Earth. If you asked Peter and Paul they would rebuke anyone who was teaching that it was them. The Apostles would admonish any saint who thought the Word of God came through men as the Catholics claim. The Will and Sovereignty of the Father and the Grace demonstrated in Jesus Christ is doing the Work we call the Church Age. No man is anything but an Empty Vessel used by God.
Men merely manage what God has given them. What do Men own that is not Gods? What can men do for God that He needs or hasn't done? All men have done is rebel against God and it is God who restoreth them
God forms men in the womb and gives them an eternal spirit and soul. When they are born God fills their lungs with air and provides food and water that they may grow. God gives them a will and reason and a brain to think that he might learn a trade or profession and provide for himself. God gives them the resources and mathematics and science to utilize creation for his benefit that he might prosper and start a family and God begins the process again. Yet men say, Look what I have done
The Canon of Scripture was the work of the Holy Spirit or it is a worthless and meaningless collection of writings with no power to convert the Sinner. God does all things invisibly to see who men shall Glorify Him or Men. God is the invisble God who has created the Heavens and Earth and men glorify Evolution. God has saved Sinners and given them Eternal Life and men say there is no "sin" and eternal life is a lie. Let God be True and All Men Liars.
What can man do to save Himself ? Did your Priest offer himself as a Sinless and Willing Sacrifice for sinners and enemies of God?? Did your church create the heavens and form you in the Womb?? Did your clergy or fellow brethren or Apostles have any power or righteousness or charity that the Spirit of God didn't give them. Get your eyes off of men as I Cor 3:21 "...So then let no one boast in men."
to everyone on here, i was COMPLETELY wrong when i quoted paul for saying we are saved by grace through faith alone. we are not, but furthermore, paul is a liar and infiltrated the true teachings of the lord and have since discovered on my own that unfortunately most believers think he was a true apostle when he wasn't at all.
@inbetweentics Paul teachings are the bedrock of all christian teaching. Paul has 9 letters, most of acts and Roman and Hebrews are some of the most christian of books ever written. Paul was chosen by God to Preach and Paul did it very well.
@inbetweentics The incident with Paul is misquoted in Judaismvschristianity due to the fact that Paul never brought any non-Jews into the temple. If you read Acts 21, the Jews made this charge but it was false. Paul is key foundation of faith in Jesus and no human has done any more for the name of Jesus than what Paul did with the gentiles. So let's get this straight. Paul is one of two great preachers in ACTs. Paul and Peter are the two key founders of the early church. Jesus
Not at all. Through history many great men have served God without being married. In fact, unmarried men are able to do much more.
1 Tim 3:2 is not a command to be married, rather, it is an instruction at that time for those who were to be married to only one women. The cultural ans historical aspects surrounding this text must be considered.
And THEN, I get to 4:00 and find that you actually quote God's instructions for the Old Testament Aaronic priesthood as basis for the Roman priesthood?! I'm flabbergasted! I have never heard it actually admitted by a RC before! Do you not know that we are heirs of a different, BETTER covenant? Or that if you are going to base your salvation upon obedience to the law, that you must obey it in its ENTIRETY? Brother, you gotta spend some time in the WORD. Reply here, and I would be glad to help.
One thing people need to understand about protestants is that we don't go around quoting Luther, or Calvin, or... we have been enabled to read and understand the word of God by His Spirit! Luther didn't know everything... he was under the impression that the Roman Catholic Church was something that COULD be reformed - it isn't; it is something that must be abandoned completely. We are grateful to him for his courage in a dark time, but he isn't the be-all and end-all. Nor is ANY man.
@cheagan be grateful to Him “There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.”
First, your "history" is WAY off. Baptists were around for a LONG time prior to the Reformation; they were called :Anabaptists" then. Second, Luther did not found the Lutheran Church; it wasn't founded until after his death. He wanted to REFORM the Roman church - hence REFORMation.
Now, if you needed a history lesson to guide you to your faith, I have news for you - it wasn't "of the Spirit" that you were born! You might want to think about that.
@cheagan um you better check what the Anna Baptists believed before claiming an affiliation to them such as for one infant Baptism lol seems you need a history lesson
The problem with Protestantism - and with many of my Catholic brothers, honestly - is that they're trying to find out what the minimum is to get into Heaven. They want to do that and only that, nothing more.
They do not understand that Christianity is not a faith of minimums. It must always become more and more intricate and pulsing with life as it grows older, for that is what all natural organisms do. They thrive.
So, too, must the faith and love of a Christian grow and thrive unceasingly.
sorry celerbration for Osiris. was, held in November, Look up the date for solstice struck out again. sorry Christmas has nothing to do with gluttony saturn or anything else you wish to conjure up Lamo
Love this video; pple should watch this viideo and believe it because it's the truth. Why do u think Jesus mother only follow catholic? Because she knows that his son found the catholic church, but pple don't wanna see the truth. The virgin Mary appeared to thousands of catholic pple and told them to love his son and believe in him, cause he's the only way to the father, She never ask pple to worship her. no no no, pple got it wrong, she said, love my son and try to get closer to him..
1. I highly doubt that you know anything about the CC.
2. I am amazed at your choice of words. Is this how Christ in you is made known? It would appear that fruit of the Holy Spirit has not been evident in your life. I base this soley from this and one other post I have read of yours.
@joeforHistruth The Council of two hundred condemned him!! Servetus had the same principles too...Calvin ought to die" he urged the Council. When Servetus fell into despair. Farel came to Serevtus and urged him to acknowledge his error. He would not! Calvin secured the consent of the Council for him to visit the prisoner. He told Servetus he had never sought to harm him. He begged him now to seek the mercy of God whom he blasphemed. But Servetus clung to his error.
@joeforHistruth, Calvin sought to persecute heretics (particularly Roman Catholics) so as to keep Protestant believers in the lands divided by the Reformation faithful to his new teachings. He viciously persecuted the Spaniard, Michael Servetus, having him burnt alive on October 27, 1553. As early as 1545, Calvin had written, “If he [Servetus] comes to Geneva, I will never allow him to depart alive.” He kept his promise. frm word press.com
“The Pope who has been created ought to be an extraordinary monster, seeing that the best of workmen have wrought so long at the forging of him. Nor indeed could a fitter than Julius have been fallen upon, as the moderator of the Council of Trent.”
@koberask I will say this any abandonment of the sacrements is not good. But for GOD all things are possible, and for those that "through no fault of there own" never got to know Christ or heard his word, salvation will be possible becaues the catholic church belives GOD is just and fair.
So the fact that Jesus is the one Mediator between God and man does not prevent other people from acting as intercessors. And we know intercessory prayer certainly does not displease God, for in the same passage we just cited,
Paul tells us: "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior
I am sometimes stunned at how people can hop up and down about what Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:5 and yet miss the subject of intercessory prayer, which is not only the topic of the preceding four verses, but the segue into the discussion of Jesus' unique Mediatorship.
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:1-4).
Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, the saints, and also for me, that utterance may be given me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak" (Ephesians 6:18-20).
"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep
Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).
Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).
Does the Bible Invoke those in Heaven to pray for us
Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"
BUT I DON'T NEED MARY WHEN I CAN GO DIRECTLY TO GOD.
Why not say "I don't need the rest of my family as long as I have my father"? The Church is a single body; the different members interelate and rely on one another: "The eye cannot say unto the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" (I Co 12:21).
Revelation 4.4: Surrounding the throne were twenty four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Revelation 5.8: ...and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
James 5: 16-18 " ...The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land. Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit."
So we see that intercession strengthens prayer. And the more righteous and faithful the intercessor is, the more powerful the prayer.
I urge then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone - for kings, for all those in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and holiness. This is good and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus."
Jesus is the one Mediator of our salvation, our only Saviour. But He is not our only intercessor, as the whole passage above clearly indicates. So the one passage that fundamentalists have used to deny intercessionary prayer, when read in context, actually backs up intercessionary prayer.
Ignorant of the scriptures! james is talking about awareness of being justified! james writes it may be know that people are justified by Holy living and the evidence of it. Paul says that we are justified by Faith without deeds of the Law. This Justification is received by Faith alone!
@kidcalifornia009 gee where is faith alone in scripture again oh yes in James it says not faith alone..By the way you might find Romans 2 interesting on the Law LOL For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
@martlut The doers are those that come to Christ by repentance and faith. As Paul explains in Rom 3:19-31 and Chapters 4 and 5. You do great injustice to the scripture by quoting a couple of verses out of context. When you read Romas as a whole, the only conclusion can be is, we are justified by faith alone. Context
@joeforHistruth Sry the only place faith alone appears is in James 2:24. "See how a person is justifed by works(Of Grace) and not by faith alone"...Tell me do you belive your faith earns GODs grace?..sounds like works salavtion to me. Do you not know that faith is a gift and a fruit? Do fruits grow?...My dear friend salvation is by Grace, your protestants seem to skip that part, and do get that faith itself is a work of GODs grace.
@gtepp031387 Faith alone, by His grace alone, in Christ alone. I was justified when I repented and put my faith in Christ alone. At that moment I was justified, Christ's righteousness was imputed to me, all based on what He did, nothing I do. You cath. twist scripture.
You don't even know if your going to heaven when you die. I do.
@joeforHistruth Sry faith alone is condemmed in scripture, the only mention of it in fact "not by faith alone" is in James 2:24. I will ask again do you belive your faith earns GODs grace?...And you should not be so bold and live in the fear of GOD, for you can be cut of the tree of life, or did you not come across that verse? Did you know that those who do not provide for there famlies and Christian brothers, have abondoned the faith and are worse then unbelievers?
@kidcalifornia009 Sry faith alone is condemmed in the bible, the only use of it in fact. James is talking of course of works of GRACE, not of the law. Let me ask you do you believe your faith earns GODs grace?
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
@martlut The Glories of Mary would be a good read for you.
the RCC calls Mary the All Holy One. How blasphemous. Not to mention praying to her. Scripture does not teach this, just RCC tradition, which contradicts scripture, therefore false. We need Gods word, not man's word.
@joeforHistruth the Bible calls lots of people holy ones how blasphemous of it which tradition are you speaking of Sunday Service Maybe By the way the only traditions the Catholic church keeps are from the apostles how un- scriptural by the way give me the teaching of Mary the all Holy One..The Glories of Mary may refer to Catholic doctrines here and there, the book itself is not doctrinal. Therefore, it does not represent official teachings of the Catholic Faith. Try again
@martlut It says, All Holy One, in capitals. No person is called that. Mary needed salvation like the rest of man. All of the false teachings/traditions, the papacy, nuns, priesthood, purgatory, assumption of Mary, sinlessness of Mary, infallibility of the pope to name a few. None are found in scripture.
Since the Glories of Mary was sanctioned by the Catholic Church I will use it.
@joeforHistruth sorry you need to read your Bible yup Mary sure did Need salvation Just like the Rest of us .Nothing better to receive that salvation by giving Birth to the SON of GOD...since when were the writings of one Bishop sanctioned by the Magisterium as Dogma (Glories of Mary..As for Priesthood I thought the protie Line was we are all priests and Jesus is the Chief priest . Were not the apostles infallible my my how can yo trust the Bible..as for nuns you need to read your bible..
@martlut Mary didn't receive salvation by giving birth to Christ, this is not in the bible. And the RCC teaches she was sinless. It was sanctioned by the Catholic Church New York, it should have been banned and labled heretical. Christians are priests,we don't need to go to someone claiming to be a priest to confess our sions to, we can go directly to the Father,because of Christ.The Apostles were not infallible, they spoke and wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted, but they themselves were sinful
@joeforHistruth gee please give me this sanctioning by the Church in NY boy that's a ridiculous statement. Gee do you have ordination in your church for pastors or is everybody automatically ordained ...n Titus 1:5, Paul tells Titus: "For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldst set in order the things that are? wanting, and shouldst ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee."
@joeforHistruth By the way why are you calling Christ a Liar that's heretical you know who did Christ say to confess your sins to again it wasn't him now was it..where n the Bible does it say go directly to the Father and confess your sin ...Oh the Apostles were not infallible I guess then you can throw out your bible the infallible word of God..where in the Bible does it say they spoke and wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted none of them wrote a gospel now did they...
@martlut We have access to the Father because of Christ. I don't have to go to anyone. There is a verse that says confess your sins one to another ,the word for sin is faults. And it doesn't mean anything close to confessing to a false priest.
@joeforHistruth By the way their are numerous verses saying to confess your sins to a priest and another well then I guess you dont believe Jesus is the High Priest and the Teaching of the apostles when it comes to ordering priests in every city and the consecration of Bishops as well. I assume your an unbeliever a pagan to put it bluntly..where is that verse again where Jesus says to confess your sins to him
@martlut "Oh the Apostles were not infallible I guess then you can throw out your bible the infallible word of God..where in the Bible does it say they spoke and wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted none of them wrote a gospel now did they..." >>The Apostles were sinners like anyone else, they in themselves were not infallible, when God spoke to them, told them what to write or say, that was infallible. That's whats in the bible, it's done, the canon is closed.......................
@joeforHistruth tell me where do I find the Holy table of contents of infallible books in the Bible.. Gee since the Pope isnt ingfalliable you might as well throw out your Bible he decided which books were to be in it in the first place ROLF. By the way being a sinner has nothing to do with infallibility
@joeforHistruth gee the cannon is closed i agree and it was done by the POPE of the Catholic Church I'm glad you agree...plese show me where it says the Apostels were inspired to write the Bible and where Jesus or the Father gave orders to write the NT..
@martlut Lets talk papal infallibility. It was voted in by a split vote, after several votes to get to that point lol.
The papacy is unbiblical ,he is not the vicor of Christ or the head of the church, he can never speak infallibly, we don't call him holy father(Blasphemous) or kiss his toe, and he is not the successor of Peter. Paul was in Rome, how about Peter? Don't see that in the bible. Where does any of that line up with the bible? It doesn't!
@joeforHistruth seems to me you also don't have a clue what Infallible means in the catholic church..gee I wonde if Jesus was blasphemous when he called Abraham a holy father
@joeforHistruth The Glories of Mary is a beautiful devotional book concerning the nature and role of Mary, it does represent what the Catholic Church officially teaches about Mariology. Always double-check the context of quoted material. and stop relying on Dave Hunt..
@joeforHistruth It doent matter where its from period now how can a devotional be a lie what a fool..Only idiots like you confuse a devotional with doctrine lol
@martlut Only deceived false teachers would say it, coming from a false religion, the RCC.
It's not a devotional. If it was and you were writing a devotional would you say things about a person that were absolutley false and contrary to scripture?? And I'm the fool??
@joeforHistruth you mean phony liars like yourself who try and twist and turn everything..come on their swifty what is it doctrine dogma or devotional or a writing.
@martlut lol right. Which lies?? Show me. I'm showing you, so show me.
Your lying, it's not a devotional, but I'll say it again. I'll call it a devotional just for you,though it's not.
This "devotional" says truth statements about Mary. "p.81 "...listen, all ye who desire the kingdom of God; honor the Virgin Mary, and ye shall have life and eternal salvation." So here is a quote,is this true or false? If false why would it be in a devotional??It would only be in a devotional if it was true
@joeforHistruth so when did the Glories of Mary become Doctrine and Yes Mary Is the Queen Of Heaven and thus the Queen of the universe that's one of the truths in the Glories of Mary along with all shall call her blessed..which can be found in the book of Revelation yup and Honoring the Virgin brings you to her son Jesus which gives you salvation as you know only Jesus can give us salvation no matter how much you try to twist the facts like Hunt..
@martlut " Yes Mary Is the Queen Of Heaven and thus the Queen of the universe that's one of the truths in the Glories of Mary along with all shall call her blessed.."
>What verse form the bible calls Mary Queen of heaven?? There are none. She is no queen. It's pagan idol worship.
"Honoring the Virgin brongs you to her son Jesus" > Can't find that in the bible either. She doesn't bring us anyowhere and she is not a virgin. The facts are what you say is unbiblical, except the blessed part.
@joeforHistruth A prooftext without a context is a pretext so all of your nonsense would be false..So what was St Bonaventure saying when your short quoted listen, all ye who desire the kingdom of God In Mary, finally, we shall find life and eternal salvation: Who finds me finds life, and draws salvation from the Lord now tell me how is this even consider a devotional or doctrine or dogma seems you don't have a clue..and are just making an idiot of yourself..
@martlut Call it whatever, it is statements about Mary. Are they true or false? Is it alie, a joke, poem, prayer. What is it doing? Why would you read it? The point is, it's accepted by the RCC, and what it says is contrary to scipture, it's lies, it decives and misleads, that is the point. The salvation of misguided, decieved lost souls is at stake.
@joeforHistruth well why dont you tell me if those statements are true you never comment on what Ligouir said about the Matter you cherry picked only a few Phrases out of context without commenting on his opinion on the matter , since you have supposedly read the Glories Of Mary you do know what the writing was about and intended don't you..it will give you the answer but your not interested in the truth only deception. The point is his Writing isnnt church DOGMA only opinion
@joeforHistruth the only one who is deceived is the one who doesn't hear what the other person is stating and makes an opinion on one or two lines of thousands ..""There is a case for telling the truth; there is a case for avoiding the scandal; but there is no possible defense for the man who tells the scandal, but does not tell the truth
"Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance
The simplification of anything is always sensational
@joeforHistruth gee seems you cant answer some simple questions cant comment on the Bible nor on the Wonderful writings on the Glories of Mary where your questions were answered . Hell you don't even know why it was written a clue for you, to answer Nitwits like you..
@martlut The Glories of Mary, p.38 "Oh glorious Virgin, I know that thou, being queen of the universe, art also my queen.....Oh Lady, I submit myself to thy control, that thou mayest rule and govern me entirely......"
Just a devotional?? Please. This is more blasphemy.
@joeforHistruth by the way cant find this on page 38 lol try the chapter "Oh glorious Virgin, I know that thou, being queen of the universe, art also my queen
@martlut It came form the Glories of Mary, if it's a prayer that's even worse. Christians don;t pray to anyone but God. More Mary worship. She doesn't help people get to heaven, we don't go through her before Christ, we don't submit to her control. It's pagan idol worship coming from a false religion. Look in the bible, see for yourself. RCC teaching contradicts the word of God.
@martlut "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.
@joeforHistruth to bad that pagan Idol want the mother of Jesus to claim that I think would Piss Jesus off after all he is God I wonder if a lightning bolt up the ass might help.. By the way did you have a mother as well you must also be pagan and by the way you cant even get your pagan history correct...
@martlut Nice play on words. Belittling?? Never. I'm pointing out the false teaching from the RCC about Mary, it has nothing to do with her, but everything to do with exposing a false religion and how it deceives people and leads them to judgment,
Yet again, Mary is not the mother of God. God has no mother. She is mother to the human part of Christ, nothing more.
@joeforHistruth gee I didn't see you discuss any catholic beliefs on Mary Just some reference ligouri used which of course was taken out of context . Gee sorry to hear you think Jesus isn't God and just materialized out of nothing. Or are you of this persuasion The heresy esposed here is known as Nestorianism
@martlut They weren't out of context. Mary is not queen of anything, she doesn't lead us to Christ, we don't pray to her etc etc...These are lies.
You're not that dense are you?? Jesus is God, He is eternal. He created everything. He became a man, God used Mary to carry that out. She is not the mother of God. This is the big reason Christians say scripture alone, because nearly everthing from that religion in Rome contradicts the bible. Maybe you should look for yourself.
@joeforHistruth Intresting seeing as how you got the bible from the Catholic church. Mary is mother of GOD(the son), as Jesus was GOD and he was born by Mary. Mary is with Jesus where he is, one with and in him(John 17:20-26), so wether you like it or not when you pray to Jesus Mary is there, along with the rest of his holy body.
@gtepp031387 " Intresting seeing as how you got the bible from the Catholic church." What verse is that??
I understand the explanation of Mary being the mother. But Catholics say Mother of God. It shoulf never have been worded that way. God has no mother. She is the mother of the humanity of Christ, nothing more.
Your explantion of praying to Mary is false. Nowhere in the bible does it say Mary hears our prayers, she is not God. The RCC does more than pray to her, they deify/worship Mary.
@martlut Are you serious?? Look through every reference to prayer and see what you come up with. Love God with all of your heart, mind soul strength. The vail was torn, because of Christ, we now have direct access to the Father. Not via Mary or some false priest, directly to the throne of grace. Praying to anyone else is idolatry and sin.
@joeforHistruth Lets start with one thing at a time so we are not all over the board, tell me how did you get your scripture. and what are your requirments for scripture?...Or do you think your bible fell from the sky?
@joeforHistruth So basically you can give me no answer then? Why is your bible different then the one the united church decided on? Why is it different then the coptic bible?...Which one is correct and why please?...If your going to push sola scriptura and there are thousands of different versions, you better make sure you have the right one, and can explain which one is right and why.
@joeforHistruth And the scripture does state truths pillar and foundation is in the church, and scripture is the truth, so yes scripture states that it comes from the church.
@gtepp031387 The church of the living God, is the pillar and support of the truth... 1 Tim 3:15. Not the source of the truth. The faith once delivered as it says in Jude. The canon is closed. No tradition that contradicts scripture. The scripture alone.
@joeforHistruth actually the correct translation is it is the foundation of truth, sry your KJV has lead you astray once again, all truth has it's foundation in the church....Tell me does Jude list the books? ..Why have you changed the apostolic scripture, that is, the divine Septuagent, why have you removed 7 books, and made horrible translations, in the 1600s, if the cannon was closed???
@gtepp031387 You mean those non canon books. The better translation is pillar ,which is support. I prefer the NASB not much the KJV. I don't need to prove anything about the bible. That wasn't my argument. My argument is all of the heresy your faslse religion teaches. Do you care? Or because you're so offended that I say that, you will defend it?
@joeforHistruth Sry no the correct translation is foundation, please prove to me pillar is more accurate,...this should be good...The NASB is heretical, alsmost every english version is, greek and latin doen't work well with english, words in Greek and Latin have several different meanings, they are much more condenced languides.
@joeforHistruth Not of works of the law I believe is what Paul says. "good works" don't come from us....
YOu are saved by grace through faith and this(faith) is not of yourselves, and not of works(of yourself) so that no man may boast"...yep perfect, this also means your work of faith will not be enough, sry. the fruits of the spirit of grace are ...faith...faith is a fruit it grows. "every person will be judged on his works"
@gtepp031387 Gods grace, throgh faith ,to be saved. Not of works, so no one can boast. You are twisting again. You will never earn what God freely offers.
@joeforHistruth Yep not of my works, but by the works of GRACE, faith itself is a work of grace, so the works of grace are necessary even in your twisted gosple.
@gtepp031387 Works of grace?? What verse is that? Gods grace, by faith in Christ. Faith given to you by God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
@joeforHistruth So your believe your faith earns the grace then? Is it not rather the GODs grace has called you before you hear the words? Or do you claim you can come to GOD without his grace?
@joeforHistruth Yep your work of faith, will never earn GODs grace, the faith is a gift of his grace, if you remain in in, through the grace you already recieved, you will recieve "grace for grace"(and only by the grace first recieved) thus through remaining in faith,get it "grace through faith" your remain in grace and recieve further grace, this process is called sanctification...why have you skipped the sanctification part of your gosple, and jumped straight to salvation?
@joeforHistruth Again please show me why your list of cannon ismore coorect, then say the Coptic bible. Do you believe your bible is correct becaues it says it is divine, well even the book of Mormon says it is divine, so you have to make a better case then that my dear friend.
@gtepp031387 Where do we pray to Mary? Where does she lead us to Christ? Where do I go through her? Where do I pray to anyone other than God?? Where is purgatory?? Where is the immaculate conception?? That's the tip of the ice-berg. These are false and heretical teachings. Please don't try to justify the false teaching of faith plus works to me. Which is another false teaching. Read Ephesians.
@joeforHistruth 1) We do not pray to Mary, we pray to the body of Christ. Why are you trying to seperate Jesus from his holy body?..sounds like the work of Satan to me. 2) Mary is the mother of Jesus, part of the body of Christ, she leads us as part of the body. 3) If Mary had sin so did Jesus, and it is said GOD can not abide in sin, read the Pro of James it goes through how GOD took the sins of the father and mother of Mary away before conception.
@gtepp031387 I have the Catechism, you pray to Mary, you're lying now. We are not told to pray to the body of Christ. Which other man was planted by the Holy Spirit. Mary was a sinner. She even called God her Savior. Your points are not biblical, just more man made teaching. That's why it's scripture alone. If it's scripture plus, you get all kinds of false teaching. The pentecostal/charismatic movement is proof of that on the protestant side.
@joeforHistruth I can not seperate Mary from the body of Christ, if I did, like you, then yes it would be wrong. However I know she is part of Christs very body, one with and in him, with him where he is(John 17:20-26)....and as far as your other point the "scripture" your using is not biblical so your just huffing at the air with that one. (how did you put it)The holy Saints thorughout the ages and the keys of St Peter are the proof that on the Catholic side.
@gtepp031387 It is wrong to pray to Mary, wake up. Hail Mary fulll of grace, pray for us sinners....hello. That's to Mary. Where is that in John 17:20-26??? Nowhere. No huffing, pointing out the RCC heresy. I'm sorry and sadened you wont see it. You love the traditions of men.
@joeforHistruth Sry Mary is one with and in Jesus. She is part of the body of Christ. She is there praying for us with Jesus wether you like it or not...would you say asking the angles to praise GOD is wrong to?...What about talking to Mosses and Elijah?..Sry you follow man, that is Martin Luther, not me. I follow the church of Christ. Your believes are the traditions of man, mine the traditions of GOD. Your believes where not heard of, practised, nor believed before the 1500s.
@gtepp031387 Christ lives in Christians. Do we pray to each other?? This logic is false. we pray to God alone, read the bible. She is not there praying with us. More extra biblical teaching. If your traditions of God are contradicting Gods word, then the god of your traditions is the god of this world.
@joeforHistruth Sure we pray to each other, right now we are praying with each other, if the spirit is in both of us, as prayer is a conversation with GOD, and as we both, if we have the spirit in us, are part of GOD, yet not fully sanctified, and having a conversation...again is it wrong to ask the angles to praise GOD?
@gtepp031387 Which verse says we pray to each other?? We pray to God. We don't ask angels to praise God. They are already doing that. Because of Christ i have direct access to the Father, that's all I need, that's all I'm told to do.
@joeforHistruth "We don't ask angels to praise God"..Nice word for word contridiction of the scripture there. Every read Psalms 103 and 148?...I guess we don't ask them to bless the LORD either right?...Sry you man mad tradition(that is purley anti- catholic from the hatrid of Martin of Luther), and minipulated, heretical scripture has lead you into great err.
@gtepp031387 ........Now, it is certain, that throughout the word of God there is not a single syllable of what they say; wherefore all their prayers are profane and displeasing to him.
Sry I do not belive you can earn salvation through YOUR works, however the works of GODs grace are very necessary to gain salvation, by allowing the grace of GOD to do ITS works not YOURS you recieve "grace for grace"(but only by the grace first recieved) If you follow this process you achieve "salvation through sanctification"...well you on the other hand belive your working of YOUR faith earns GODs grace..now that is works salvation if I ever heard it!
@joeforHistruth wow i am so impressed by Calvin I also love his religious police state he set up murdering everyone who didn't follow his man made tradition seems Luther had a problem with him as well called him Satan if I remember right as well as a few other choice words..
@joeforHistruth John Calvin created a vicious theocracy in which morality police were employed to control people's behavior. Citizens were harshly punished for a wide variety of moral infractions, including dancing, drinking, and generally being entertained. Theological dissidents were summarily executed, like Michael Servetus who was burned for doubting the Trinity.
@joeforHistruth John Calvin was a sick, pridful man, who rejected every Christian that came before him, rejected the very body of Christ, and made up a a faith, that no one for the first 1500 years of Christandome had ever heard of, practised nor believed. Sry Jesus said his church would NEVER fall. I think I'll stick with Jesus and the church he established founded on the prophets and apostles.
@gtepp031387 John Calvin did what the RCC always fails to do. Rightly divide the word of truth. Jesus said to abide in His word if you want to be His disciple and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Not some mystical, heretical tradition. Worshipping and deifying a mere person, calling the pope holy father, purgatory etc etc.... There is but one Holy Father. There is but one I go through to get to the Father, Christ alone.
@joeforHistruth Sry to burst your bubble, but scripture in itself is a tradition, or do you think your bibloe fell from the sky? And if you understood who Christ is you would understand that you can not reject the apostles and say you have faith in Christ. Paul took the title father, Stephen used it, John called you his childre..ect..your personal interpritation has lead you inot err.
@gtepp031387 "The preaching of God’s word is hateful and contrary unto them. Why? For it is impossible to preach Christ, except thou preach against antichrist; that is to say, them which with their false doctrine and violence of sword enforce to quench the true doctrine of Christ. And as thou canst heal no disease, except thou begin at the root; even so canst thou preach against no mischief, except thou begin at the bishops."
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It seems the Catholics in here have forgotten who it is that is Does a Great Work on the Earth. If you asked Peter and Paul they would rebuke anyone who was teaching that it was them. The Apostles would admonish any saint who thought the Word of God came through men as the Catholics claim. The Will and Sovereignty of the Father and the Grace demonstrated in Jesus Christ is doing the Work we call the Church Age. No man is anything but an Empty Vessel used by God.
JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
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Men merely manage what God has given them. What do Men own that is not Gods? What can men do for God that He needs or hasn't done? All men have done is rebel against God and it is God who restoreth them
JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
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God forms men in the womb and gives them an eternal spirit and soul. When they are born God fills their lungs with air and provides food and water that they may grow. God gives them a will and reason and a brain to think that he might learn a trade or profession and provide for himself. God gives them the resources and mathematics and science to utilize creation for his benefit that he might prosper and start a family and God begins the process again. Yet men say, Look what I have done
JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
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The Canon of Scripture was the work of the Holy Spirit or it is a worthless and meaningless collection of writings with no power to convert the Sinner. God does all things invisibly to see who men shall Glorify Him or Men. God is the invisble God who has created the Heavens and Earth and men glorify Evolution. God has saved Sinners and given them Eternal Life and men say there is no "sin" and eternal life is a lie. Let God be True and All Men Liars.
JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
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What can man do to save Himself ? Did your Priest offer himself as a Sinless and Willing Sacrifice for sinners and enemies of God?? Did your church create the heavens and form you in the Womb?? Did your clergy or fellow brethren or Apostles have any power or righteousness or charity that the Spirit of God didn't give them. Get your eyes off of men as I Cor 3:21 "...So then let no one boast in men."
JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
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JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
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JesusNonEnviromental 2 weeks ago
My friend you choose well in seeking ur relationship with god
killer82236 1 month ago
Paul is historical ... outside of the Bible...no one objected 1st century.. He was a Prophet ,,,
JustAMan400 1 month ago
to everyone on here, i was COMPLETELY wrong when i quoted paul for saying we are saved by grace through faith alone. we are not, but furthermore, paul is a liar and infiltrated the true teachings of the lord and have since discovered on my own that unfortunately most believers think he was a true apostle when he wasn't at all.
please everyone check out this for yourselves
judaismvschristianity (d o t) com
inbetweentics 2 months ago
@inbetweentics Paul teachings are the bedrock of all christian teaching. Paul has 9 letters, most of acts and Roman and Hebrews are some of the most christian of books ever written. Paul was chosen by God to Preach and Paul did it very well.
MRGV7373 3 weeks ago
@inbetweentics The incident with Paul is misquoted in Judaismvschristianity due to the fact that Paul never brought any non-Jews into the temple. If you read Acts 21, the Jews made this charge but it was false. Paul is key foundation of faith in Jesus and no human has done any more for the name of Jesus than what Paul did with the gentiles. So let's get this straight. Paul is one of two great preachers in ACTs. Paul and Peter are the two key founders of the early church. Jesus
MRGV7373 3 weeks ago
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inbetweentics 3 months ago
@inbetweentics well I suggest you start doing some good works thats the only thing Christ Judges not faith alone sorry.
martlut 2 months ago
@martlut yes, you are correct. i've just found out that paul was false and he is a liar. we are judged by faith and deeds! thank you!
inbetweentics 2 months ago
@inbetweentics Hmmm... then why did Paul call himself a spiritual father multiple times?
GracieLacie333 2 months ago
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inbetweentics 2 months ago
@inbetweentics Don't you understand.. That if it were not for the Catholic Church the Bible would not exist.
megaead69 1 month ago
in order to hold priest hood authority, doesn't a MAN have to be married??
miranda1984ify 3 months ago
@miranda1984ify
Not at all. Through history many great men have served God without being married. In fact, unmarried men are able to do much more.
1 Tim 3:2 is not a command to be married, rather, it is an instruction at that time for those who were to be married to only one women. The cultural ans historical aspects surrounding this text must be considered.
baldonebear 3 months ago
And THEN, I get to 4:00 and find that you actually quote God's instructions for the Old Testament Aaronic priesthood as basis for the Roman priesthood?! I'm flabbergasted! I have never heard it actually admitted by a RC before! Do you not know that we are heirs of a different, BETTER covenant? Or that if you are going to base your salvation upon obedience to the law, that you must obey it in its ENTIRETY? Brother, you gotta spend some time in the WORD. Reply here, and I would be glad to help.
cheagan 5 months ago
One thing people need to understand about protestants is that we don't go around quoting Luther, or Calvin, or... we have been enabled to read and understand the word of God by His Spirit! Luther didn't know everything... he was under the impression that the Roman Catholic Church was something that COULD be reformed - it isn't; it is something that must be abandoned completely. We are grateful to him for his courage in a dark time, but he isn't the be-all and end-all. Nor is ANY man.
cheagan 5 months ago
@cheagan be grateful to Him “There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.”
Martin Luther
martlut 5 months ago
@martlut Sorry - I don't follow your point.
(I'm pretty thick, though.)
cheagan 5 months ago
First, your "history" is WAY off. Baptists were around for a LONG time prior to the Reformation; they were called :Anabaptists" then. Second, Luther did not found the Lutheran Church; it wasn't founded until after his death. He wanted to REFORM the Roman church - hence REFORMation.
Now, if you needed a history lesson to guide you to your faith, I have news for you - it wasn't "of the Spirit" that you were born! You might want to think about that.
cheagan 5 months ago
@cheagan um you better check what the Anna Baptists believed before claiming an affiliation to them such as for one infant Baptism lol seems you need a history lesson
martlut 5 months ago
The problem with Protestantism - and with many of my Catholic brothers, honestly - is that they're trying to find out what the minimum is to get into Heaven. They want to do that and only that, nothing more.
They do not understand that Christianity is not a faith of minimums. It must always become more and more intricate and pulsing with life as it grows older, for that is what all natural organisms do. They thrive.
So, too, must the faith and love of a Christian grow and thrive unceasingly.
SorokChyetirye 5 months ago
sorry celerbration for Osiris. was, held in November, Look up the date for solstice struck out again. sorry Christmas has nothing to do with gluttony saturn or anything else you wish to conjure up Lamo
martlut 6 months ago
Great video. Thank you.
poligon333 6 months ago
Love this video; pple should watch this viideo and believe it because it's the truth. Why do u think Jesus mother only follow catholic? Because she knows that his son found the catholic church, but pple don't wanna see the truth. The virgin Mary appeared to thousands of catholic pple and told them to love his son and believe in him, cause he's the only way to the father, She never ask pple to worship her. no no no, pple got it wrong, she said, love my son and try to get closer to him..
tonganfoilole69 6 months ago
CHATHOLICS YOUR RELIGION SUCKS
YOU HAVE TO BE BRAIN DEAD TO BE IN IT
QNELSON2 6 months ago
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@QNELSON2
"CHATHOLICS YOUR RELIGION SUCKS
YOU HAVE TO BE BRAIN DEAD TO BE IN IT"
1. I highly doubt that you know anything about the CC.
2. I am amazed at your choice of words. Is this how Christ in you is made known? It would appear that fruit of the Holy Spirit has not been evident in your life. I base this soley from this and one other post I have read of yours.
baldonebear 6 months ago
@QNELSON2 and you're blind. God Bless you
seanom23 6 months ago
By the way I thought you said Constantine changed it to Sunday
martlut 7 months ago
AND ALSO WITH YOU.
TheRatedRThuglife77 7 months ago
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kidcalifornia009 7 months ago
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kidcalifornia009 7 months ago
You didn't search that bible, it wouldn't have led you to the false religion of RCC.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth The Council of two hundred condemned him!! Servetus had the same principles too...Calvin ought to die" he urged the Council. When Servetus fell into despair. Farel came to Serevtus and urged him to acknowledge his error. He would not! Calvin secured the consent of the Council for him to visit the prisoner. He told Servetus he had never sought to harm him. He begged him now to seek the mercy of God whom he blasphemed. But Servetus clung to his error.
kidcalifornia009 7 months ago 2
@joeforHistruth, Calvin sought to persecute heretics (particularly Roman Catholics) so as to keep Protestant believers in the lands divided by the Reformation faithful to his new teachings. He viciously persecuted the Spaniard, Michael Servetus, having him burnt alive on October 27, 1553. As early as 1545, Calvin had written, “If he [Servetus] comes to Geneva, I will never allow him to depart alive.” He kept his promise. frm word press.com
servant1580 7 months ago
“The Pope who has been created ought to be an extraordinary monster, seeing that the best of workmen have wrought so long at the forging of him. Nor indeed could a fitter than Julius have been fallen upon, as the moderator of the Council of Trent.”
John Calvin
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@koberask I will say this any abandonment of the sacrements is not good. But for GOD all things are possible, and for those that "through no fault of there own" never got to know Christ or heard his word, salvation will be possible becaues the catholic church belives GOD is just and fair.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
So the fact that Jesus is the one Mediator between God and man does not prevent other people from acting as intercessors. And we know intercessory prayer certainly does not displease God, for in the same passage we just cited,
martlut 7 months ago
Paul tells us: "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior
I am sometimes stunned at how people can hop up and down about what Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:5 and yet miss the subject of intercessory prayer, which is not only the topic of the preceding four verses, but the segue into the discussion of Jesus' unique Mediatorship.
martlut 7 months ago
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:1-4).
martlut 7 months ago
Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, the saints, and also for me, that utterance may be given me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak" (Ephesians 6:18-20).
martlut 7 months ago
"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep
martlut 7 months ago
Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).
martlut 7 months ago
Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).
martlut 7 months ago
Does the Bible Invoke those in Heaven to pray for us
Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"
martlut 7 months ago
BUT I DON'T NEED MARY WHEN I CAN GO DIRECTLY TO GOD.
Why not say "I don't need the rest of my family as long as I have my father"? The Church is a single body; the different members interelate and rely on one another: "The eye cannot say unto the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" (I Co 12:21).
martlut 7 months ago
Later in the Bible we see this vision of heaven:
Revelation 4.4: Surrounding the throne were twenty four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Revelation 5.8: ...and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
martlut 7 months ago
James 5: 16-18 " ...The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land. Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit."
So we see that intercession strengthens prayer. And the more righteous and faithful the intercessor is, the more powerful the prayer.
martlut 7 months ago
I urge then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone - for kings, for all those in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and holiness. This is good and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus."
1Timothy 2:1-5
martlut 7 months ago
Jesus is the one Mediator of our salvation, our only Saviour. But He is not our only intercessor, as the whole passage above clearly indicates. So the one passage that fundamentalists have used to deny intercessionary prayer, when read in context, actually backs up intercessionary prayer.
martlut 7 months ago
Ignorant of the scriptures! james is talking about awareness of being justified! james writes it may be know that people are justified by Holy living and the evidence of it. Paul says that we are justified by Faith without deeds of the Law. This Justification is received by Faith alone!
kidcalifornia009 7 months ago
@kidcalifornia009 gee where is faith alone in scripture again oh yes in James it says not faith alone..By the way you might find Romans 2 interesting on the Law LOL For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
martlut 7 months ago
@martlut Sadly, to your shame you left out the rest of Romans. Pick and choose theology doesn't work.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@martlut The doers are those that come to Christ by repentance and faith. As Paul explains in Rom 3:19-31 and Chapters 4 and 5. You do great injustice to the scripture by quoting a couple of verses out of context. When you read Romas as a whole, the only conclusion can be is, we are justified by faith alone. Context
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Sry the only place faith alone appears is in James 2:24. "See how a person is justifed by works(Of Grace) and not by faith alone"...Tell me do you belive your faith earns GODs grace?..sounds like works salavtion to me. Do you not know that faith is a gift and a fruit? Do fruits grow?...My dear friend salvation is by Grace, your protestants seem to skip that part, and do get that faith itself is a work of GODs grace.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Faith alone, by His grace alone, in Christ alone. I was justified when I repented and put my faith in Christ alone. At that moment I was justified, Christ's righteousness was imputed to me, all based on what He did, nothing I do. You cath. twist scripture.
You don't even know if your going to heaven when you die. I do.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Sry faith alone is condemmed in scripture, the only mention of it in fact "not by faith alone" is in James 2:24. I will ask again do you belive your faith earns GODs grace?...And you should not be so bold and live in the fear of GOD, for you can be cut of the tree of life, or did you not come across that verse? Did you know that those who do not provide for there famlies and Christian brothers, have abondoned the faith and are worse then unbelievers?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@martlut Don't forget to read Galatians. Especially 5:4
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth seems you already have believing in all those man made traditions
martlut 7 months ago
@martlut I didn't think you would post scriptures. There are none. So it's you who believes the traditions of men.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@kidcalifornia009 Sry faith alone is condemmed in the bible, the only use of it in fact. James is talking of course of works of GRACE, not of the law. Let me ask you do you believe your faith earns GODs grace?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
My Question is Simple... Do you Share your faith to non - believers and bring their souls back to the Mother Church?
eraser695 8 months ago
Sacred Tradition?? How can that be when it contradicts the bible, Gods word?
Clearly untrue.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth what is the that .........Ephesians 2:8-9 its not your faith to begin with..
martlut 8 months ago
Then there is the deification and worship of Mary. Another blasphemous teaching from Catholicism.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth show the deification and worship of anyone other than Christ troll.
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut The Glories of Mary would be a good read for you.
the RCC calls Mary the All Holy One. How blasphemous. Not to mention praying to her. Scripture does not teach this, just RCC tradition, which contradicts scripture, therefore false. We need Gods word, not man's word.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth the Bible calls lots of people holy ones how blasphemous of it which tradition are you speaking of Sunday Service Maybe By the way the only traditions the Catholic church keeps are from the apostles how un- scriptural by the way give me the teaching of Mary the all Holy One..The Glories of Mary may refer to Catholic doctrines here and there, the book itself is not doctrinal. Therefore, it does not represent official teachings of the Catholic Faith. Try again
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut It says, All Holy One, in capitals. No person is called that. Mary needed salvation like the rest of man. All of the false teachings/traditions, the papacy, nuns, priesthood, purgatory, assumption of Mary, sinlessness of Mary, infallibility of the pope to name a few. None are found in scripture.
Since the Glories of Mary was sanctioned by the Catholic Church I will use it.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth sorry you need to read your Bible yup Mary sure did Need salvation Just like the Rest of us .Nothing better to receive that salvation by giving Birth to the SON of GOD...since when were the writings of one Bishop sanctioned by the Magisterium as Dogma (Glories of Mary..As for Priesthood I thought the protie Line was we are all priests and Jesus is the Chief priest . Were not the apostles infallible my my how can yo trust the Bible..as for nuns you need to read your bible..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Mary didn't receive salvation by giving birth to Christ, this is not in the bible. And the RCC teaches she was sinless. It was sanctioned by the Catholic Church New York, it should have been banned and labled heretical. Christians are priests,we don't need to go to someone claiming to be a priest to confess our sions to, we can go directly to the Father,because of Christ.The Apostles were not infallible, they spoke and wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted, but they themselves were sinful
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth gee please give me this sanctioning by the Church in NY boy that's a ridiculous statement. Gee do you have ordination in your church for pastors or is everybody automatically ordained ...n Titus 1:5, Paul tells Titus: "For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldst set in order the things that are? wanting, and shouldst ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee."
martlut 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth By the way why are you calling Christ a Liar that's heretical you know who did Christ say to confess your sins to again it wasn't him now was it..where n the Bible does it say go directly to the Father and confess your sin ...Oh the Apostles were not infallible I guess then you can throw out your bible the infallible word of God..where in the Bible does it say they spoke and wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted none of them wrote a gospel now did they...
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut We have access to the Father because of Christ. I don't have to go to anyone. There is a verse that says confess your sins one to another ,the word for sin is faults. And it doesn't mean anything close to confessing to a false priest.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth By the way their are numerous verses saying to confess your sins to a priest and another well then I guess you dont believe Jesus is the High Priest and the Teaching of the apostles when it comes to ordering priests in every city and the consecration of Bishops as well. I assume your an unbeliever a pagan to put it bluntly..where is that verse again where Jesus says to confess your sins to him
martlut 8 months ago
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@joeforHistruth By the way we have access to the Father from Father Abraham as Jesus called Him..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut "Oh the Apostles were not infallible I guess then you can throw out your bible the infallible word of God..where in the Bible does it say they spoke and wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted none of them wrote a gospel now did they..." >>The Apostles were sinners like anyone else, they in themselves were not infallible, when God spoke to them, told them what to write or say, that was infallible. That's whats in the bible, it's done, the canon is closed.......................
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth tell me where do I find the Holy table of contents of infallible books in the Bible.. Gee since the Pope isnt ingfalliable you might as well throw out your Bible he decided which books were to be in it in the first place ROLF. By the way being a sinner has nothing to do with infallibility
martlut 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth gee the cannon is closed i agree and it was done by the POPE of the Catholic Church I'm glad you agree...plese show me where it says the Apostels were inspired to write the Bible and where Jesus or the Father gave orders to write the NT..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Lets talk papal infallibility. It was voted in by a split vote, after several votes to get to that point lol.
The papacy is unbiblical ,he is not the vicor of Christ or the head of the church, he can never speak infallibly, we don't call him holy father(Blasphemous) or kiss his toe, and he is not the successor of Peter. Paul was in Rome, how about Peter? Don't see that in the bible. Where does any of that line up with the bible? It doesn't!
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth seems to me you also don't have a clue what Infallible means in the catholic church..gee I wonde if Jesus was blasphemous when he called Abraham a holy father
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Nothing about nuns in the bible. You should read your bible and compare it to the RCC teaching, they contradict. I'll take the word of God.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth The Glories of Mary is a beautiful devotional book concerning the nature and role of Mary, it does represent what the Catholic Church officially teaches about Mariology. Always double-check the context of quoted material. and stop relying on Dave Hunt..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut It was from an online library, from an old version, not Dave Hunt whoever that is.
Whatever you call it, devotional, it's a lie and it deceives people. Because people reading it as a devotional will think it's true.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth It doent matter where its from period now how can a devotional be a lie what a fool..Only idiots like you confuse a devotional with doctrine lol
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Only deceived false teachers would say it, coming from a false religion, the RCC.
It's not a devotional. If it was and you were writing a devotional would you say things about a person that were absolutley false and contrary to scripture?? And I'm the fool??
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth you mean phony liars like yourself who try and twist and turn everything..come on their swifty what is it doctrine dogma or devotional or a writing.
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut lol right. Which lies?? Show me. I'm showing you, so show me.
Your lying, it's not a devotional, but I'll say it again. I'll call it a devotional just for you,though it's not.
This "devotional" says truth statements about Mary. "p.81 "...listen, all ye who desire the kingdom of God; honor the Virgin Mary, and ye shall have life and eternal salvation." So here is a quote,is this true or false? If false why would it be in a devotional??It would only be in a devotional if it was true
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth so when did the Glories of Mary become Doctrine and Yes Mary Is the Queen Of Heaven and thus the Queen of the universe that's one of the truths in the Glories of Mary along with all shall call her blessed..which can be found in the book of Revelation yup and Honoring the Virgin brings you to her son Jesus which gives you salvation as you know only Jesus can give us salvation no matter how much you try to twist the facts like Hunt..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut " Yes Mary Is the Queen Of Heaven and thus the Queen of the universe that's one of the truths in the Glories of Mary along with all shall call her blessed.."
>What verse form the bible calls Mary Queen of heaven?? There are none. She is no queen. It's pagan idol worship.
"Honoring the Virgin brongs you to her son Jesus" > Can't find that in the bible either. She doesn't bring us anyowhere and she is not a virgin. The facts are what you say is unbiblical, except the blessed part.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth A prooftext without a context is a pretext so all of your nonsense would be false..So what was St Bonaventure saying when your short quoted listen, all ye who desire the kingdom of God In Mary, finally, we shall find life and eternal salvation: Who finds me finds life, and draws salvation from the Lord now tell me how is this even consider a devotional or doctrine or dogma seems you don't have a clue..and are just making an idiot of yourself..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Call it whatever, it is statements about Mary. Are they true or false? Is it alie, a joke, poem, prayer. What is it doing? Why would you read it? The point is, it's accepted by the RCC, and what it says is contrary to scipture, it's lies, it decives and misleads, that is the point. The salvation of misguided, decieved lost souls is at stake.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth well why dont you tell me if those statements are true you never comment on what Ligouir said about the Matter you cherry picked only a few Phrases out of context without commenting on his opinion on the matter , since you have supposedly read the Glories Of Mary you do know what the writing was about and intended don't you..it will give you the answer but your not interested in the truth only deception. The point is his Writing isnnt church DOGMA only opinion
martlut 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth the only one who is deceived is the one who doesn't hear what the other person is stating and makes an opinion on one or two lines of thousands ..""There is a case for telling the truth; there is a case for avoiding the scandal; but there is no possible defense for the man who tells the scandal, but does not tell the truth
"Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance
The simplification of anything is always sensational
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Wow that was a whoel lot of words, but no meaning. I've pointed out the false teaching that you can't defend.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth gee seems you cant answer some simple questions cant comment on the Bible nor on the Wonderful writings on the Glories of Mary where your questions were answered . Hell you don't even know why it was written a clue for you, to answer Nitwits like you..
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut The Glories of Mary, p.38 "Oh glorious Virgin, I know that thou, being queen of the universe, art also my queen.....Oh Lady, I submit myself to thy control, that thou mayest rule and govern me entirely......"
Just a devotional?? Please. This is more blasphemy.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth by the way cant find this on page 38 lol try the chapter "Oh glorious Virgin, I know that thou, being queen of the universe, art also my queen
martlut 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth by the way that came from a Prayer even though you altered it not a devotional boy you cant seem to get anything straight can you
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut It came form the Glories of Mary, if it's a prayer that's even worse. Christians don;t pray to anyone but God. More Mary worship. She doesn't help people get to heaven, we don't go through her before Christ, we don't submit to her control. It's pagan idol worship coming from a false religion. Look in the bible, see for yourself. RCC teaching contradicts the word of God.
And no I didn't alter it.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@martlut "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.
Jeremiah 7:18
It seems Isreal had a problem with a pagan idol called the queen of heaven as well.
Also in Jer. 44:17,18,19,25
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth to bad that pagan Idol want the mother of Jesus to claim that I think would Piss Jesus off after all he is God I wonder if a lightning bolt up the ass might help.. By the way did you have a mother as well you must also be pagan and by the way you cant even get your pagan history correct...
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Do as Jesus commanded. Repent and believe the gospel.Mark 1:15
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth If I were you id take my own advice I wonder how Jesus will react to your belittling his Mother The Mother Of God.
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut Nice play on words. Belittling?? Never. I'm pointing out the false teaching from the RCC about Mary, it has nothing to do with her, but everything to do with exposing a false religion and how it deceives people and leads them to judgment,
Yet again, Mary is not the mother of God. God has no mother. She is mother to the human part of Christ, nothing more.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth gee I didn't see you discuss any catholic beliefs on Mary Just some reference ligouri used which of course was taken out of context . Gee sorry to hear you think Jesus isn't God and just materialized out of nothing. Or are you of this persuasion The heresy esposed here is known as Nestorianism
martlut 8 months ago
@martlut They weren't out of context. Mary is not queen of anything, she doesn't lead us to Christ, we don't pray to her etc etc...These are lies.
You're not that dense are you?? Jesus is God, He is eternal. He created everything. He became a man, God used Mary to carry that out. She is not the mother of God. This is the big reason Christians say scripture alone, because nearly everthing from that religion in Rome contradicts the bible. Maybe you should look for yourself.
joeforHistruth 8 months ago
@joeforHistruth Intresting seeing as how you got the bible from the Catholic church. Mary is mother of GOD(the son), as Jesus was GOD and he was born by Mary. Mary is with Jesus where he is, one with and in him(John 17:20-26), so wether you like it or not when you pray to Jesus Mary is there, along with the rest of his holy body.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 " Intresting seeing as how you got the bible from the Catholic church." What verse is that??
I understand the explanation of Mary being the mother. But Catholics say Mother of God. It shoulf never have been worded that way. God has no mother. She is the mother of the humanity of Christ, nothing more.
Your explantion of praying to Mary is false. Nowhere in the bible does it say Mary hears our prayers, she is not God. The RCC does more than pray to her, they deify/worship Mary.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth where does it say in the Bible only God hears your prayers
martlut 7 months ago
@martlut Are you serious?? Look through every reference to prayer and see what you come up with. Love God with all of your heart, mind soul strength. The vail was torn, because of Christ, we now have direct access to the Father. Not via Mary or some false priest, directly to the throne of grace. Praying to anyone else is idolatry and sin.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth apparently you have some more looking to do
martlut 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Lets start with one thing at a time so we are not all over the board, tell me how did you get your scripture. and what are your requirments for scripture?...Or do you think your bible fell from the sky?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Where does Gods word say the scripture came form?? It wasn't the Catholic church.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth So basically you can give me no answer then? Why is your bible different then the one the united church decided on? Why is it different then the coptic bible?...Which one is correct and why please?...If your going to push sola scriptura and there are thousands of different versions, you better make sure you have the right one, and can explain which one is right and why.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth And the scripture does state truths pillar and foundation is in the church, and scripture is the truth, so yes scripture states that it comes from the church.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 The church of the living God, is the pillar and support of the truth... 1 Tim 3:15. Not the source of the truth. The faith once delivered as it says in Jude. The canon is closed. No tradition that contradicts scripture. The scripture alone.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth actually the correct translation is it is the foundation of truth, sry your KJV has lead you astray once again, all truth has it's foundation in the church....Tell me does Jude list the books? ..Why have you changed the apostolic scripture, that is, the divine Septuagent, why have you removed 7 books, and made horrible translations, in the 1600s, if the cannon was closed???
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 You mean those non canon books. The better translation is pillar ,which is support. I prefer the NASB not much the KJV. I don't need to prove anything about the bible. That wasn't my argument. My argument is all of the heresy your faslse religion teaches. Do you care? Or because you're so offended that I say that, you will defend it?
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Sry no the correct translation is foundation, please prove to me pillar is more accurate,...this should be good...The NASB is heretical, alsmost every english version is, greek and latin doen't work well with english, words in Greek and Latin have several different meanings, they are much more condenced languides.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 NASB is heretical lol. You are deceived. You defend lies and twist scripture. Do you care?
Christians are saved by grace through faith, not of good works...Ephesians. You didn't read that I guess?
Sanctification is not justification. We are justified when we repent and by faith alone trust in Christ. Not of works like it says in Ephesians
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Not of works of the law I believe is what Paul says. "good works" don't come from us....
YOu are saved by grace through faith and this(faith) is not of yourselves, and not of works(of yourself) so that no man may boast"...yep perfect, this also means your work of faith will not be enough, sry. the fruits of the spirit of grace are ...faith...faith is a fruit it grows. "every person will be judged on his works"
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Gods grace, throgh faith ,to be saved. Not of works, so no one can boast. You are twisting again. You will never earn what God freely offers.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Yep not of my works, but by the works of GRACE, faith itself is a work of grace, so the works of grace are necessary even in your twisted gosple.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Works of grace?? What verse is that? Gods grace, by faith in Christ. Faith given to you by God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
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@joeforHistruth So your believe your faith earns the grace then? Is it not rather the GODs grace has called you before you hear the words? Or do you claim you can come to GOD without his grace?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Yep your work of faith, will never earn GODs grace, the faith is a gift of his grace, if you remain in in, through the grace you already recieved, you will recieve "grace for grace"(and only by the grace first recieved) thus through remaining in faith,get it "grace through faith" your remain in grace and recieve further grace, this process is called sanctification...why have you skipped the sanctification part of your gosple, and jumped straight to salvation?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Again please show me why your list of cannon ismore coorect, then say the Coptic bible. Do you believe your bible is correct becaues it says it is divine, well even the book of Mormon says it is divine, so you have to make a better case then that my dear friend.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth So which cannon is correct? There are thousands, and there are many older then the KJV, please prove your case.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Where do we pray to Mary? Where does she lead us to Christ? Where do I go through her? Where do I pray to anyone other than God?? Where is purgatory?? Where is the immaculate conception?? That's the tip of the ice-berg. These are false and heretical teachings. Please don't try to justify the false teaching of faith plus works to me. Which is another false teaching. Read Ephesians.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth 1) We do not pray to Mary, we pray to the body of Christ. Why are you trying to seperate Jesus from his holy body?..sounds like the work of Satan to me. 2) Mary is the mother of Jesus, part of the body of Christ, she leads us as part of the body. 3) If Mary had sin so did Jesus, and it is said GOD can not abide in sin, read the Pro of James it goes through how GOD took the sins of the father and mother of Mary away before conception.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 I have the Catechism, you pray to Mary, you're lying now. We are not told to pray to the body of Christ. Which other man was planted by the Holy Spirit. Mary was a sinner. She even called God her Savior. Your points are not biblical, just more man made teaching. That's why it's scripture alone. If it's scripture plus, you get all kinds of false teaching. The pentecostal/charismatic movement is proof of that on the protestant side.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth I can not seperate Mary from the body of Christ, if I did, like you, then yes it would be wrong. However I know she is part of Christs very body, one with and in him, with him where he is(John 17:20-26)....and as far as your other point the "scripture" your using is not biblical so your just huffing at the air with that one. (how did you put it)The holy Saints thorughout the ages and the keys of St Peter are the proof that on the Catholic side.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 It is wrong to pray to Mary, wake up. Hail Mary fulll of grace, pray for us sinners....hello. That's to Mary. Where is that in John 17:20-26??? Nowhere. No huffing, pointing out the RCC heresy. I'm sorry and sadened you wont see it. You love the traditions of men.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Sry Mary is one with and in Jesus. She is part of the body of Christ. She is there praying for us with Jesus wether you like it or not...would you say asking the angles to praise GOD is wrong to?...What about talking to Mosses and Elijah?..Sry you follow man, that is Martin Luther, not me. I follow the church of Christ. Your believes are the traditions of man, mine the traditions of GOD. Your believes where not heard of, practised, nor believed before the 1500s.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Christ lives in Christians. Do we pray to each other?? This logic is false. we pray to God alone, read the bible. She is not there praying with us. More extra biblical teaching. If your traditions of God are contradicting Gods word, then the god of your traditions is the god of this world.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Sure we pray to each other, right now we are praying with each other, if the spirit is in both of us, as prayer is a conversation with GOD, and as we both, if we have the spirit in us, are part of GOD, yet not fully sanctified, and having a conversation...again is it wrong to ask the angles to praise GOD?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Which verse says we pray to each other?? We pray to God. We don't ask angels to praise God. They are already doing that. Because of Christ i have direct access to the Father, that's all I need, that's all I'm told to do.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth "We don't ask angels to praise God"..Nice word for word contridiction of the scripture there. Every read Psalms 103 and 148?...I guess we don't ask them to bless the LORD either right?...Sry you man mad tradition(that is purley anti- catholic from the hatrid of Martin of Luther), and minipulated, heretical scripture has lead you into great err.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 What?? lol
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 Concerning the intercession of the Virgin Mary and departed saints, come back always to
this principle, that it is not for us to appoint advocates in paradise, but for God, who has
ordained Jesus Christ a single one for all. Also, that our prayers ought to be offered up in
faith, and therefore ordered by the word of God, as saith St. Paul in Romans x............
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 ........Now, it is certain, that throughout the word of God there is not a single syllable of what they say; wherefore all their prayers are profane and displeasing to him.
John Calvin
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
Sry I do not belive you can earn salvation through YOUR works, however the works of GODs grace are very necessary to gain salvation, by allowing the grace of GOD to do ITS works not YOURS you recieve "grace for grace"(but only by the grace first recieved) If you follow this process you achieve "salvation through sanctification"...well you on the other hand belive your working of YOUR faith earns GODs grace..now that is works salvation if I ever heard it!
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@martlut “The hireling dogs of the Pope cease not to bark, in order to prevent the pure Gospel of
Christ from being heard: so great is the licentiousness that is here and there breaking
forth, and the ungodliness that is spreading abroad, that religion is become a mere
mockery.”
John Calvin
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth wow i am so impressed by Calvin I also love his religious police state he set up murdering everyone who didn't follow his man made tradition seems Luther had a problem with him as well called him Satan if I remember right as well as a few other choice words..
martlut 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Calvin ... himself said on one occasion:
"The Bible teaches us that there are witches and they must be slain ... this law of God is a universal law."
martlut 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth John Calvin created a vicious theocracy in which morality police were employed to control people's behavior. Citizens were harshly punished for a wide variety of moral infractions, including dancing, drinking, and generally being entertained. Theological dissidents were summarily executed, like Michael Servetus who was burned for doubting the Trinity.
martlut 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth such a wonderful guy that Calvin
martlut 7 months ago
@martlut Yes he was.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth yes he was such a great murderer and authoritarian I agree
martlut 7 months ago 2
@joeforHistruth John Calvin was a sick, pridful man, who rejected every Christian that came before him, rejected the very body of Christ, and made up a a faith, that no one for the first 1500 years of Christandome had ever heard of, practised nor believed. Sry Jesus said his church would NEVER fall. I think I'll stick with Jesus and the church he established founded on the prophets and apostles.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 John Calvin did what the RCC always fails to do. Rightly divide the word of truth. Jesus said to abide in His word if you want to be His disciple and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Not some mystical, heretical tradition. Worshipping and deifying a mere person, calling the pope holy father, purgatory etc etc.... There is but one Holy Father. There is but one I go through to get to the Father, Christ alone.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth Sry to burst your bubble, but scripture in itself is a tradition, or do you think your bibloe fell from the sky? And if you understood who Christ is you would understand that you can not reject the apostles and say you have faith in Christ. Paul took the title father, Stephen used it, John called you his childre..ect..your personal interpritation has lead you inot err.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "Indulgences for sin may come from Rome, but they never come from Zion."
Charles Spurgeon
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth So then tell me how are the OT Saints said to be saved, without indulgences?
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 "The preaching of God’s word is hateful and contrary unto them. Why? For it is impossible to preach Christ, except thou preach against antichrist; that is to say, them which with their false doctrine and violence of sword enforce to quench the true doctrine of Christ. And as thou canst heal no disease, except thou begin at the root; even so canst thou preach against no mischief, except thou begin at the bishops."
William Tyndale
joeforHistruth 7 months ago